Comments by Laurie Fraser

Comment #262176 by Laurie Fraser on October 8, 2008 at 4:40 am

Comment #262174 by keith

Keith, stop it right now! Can't you see that Steve (happily married) and I (also happily married) are pursuing one of those internet romance thingys? Now, leave us alone, you cad! (Besides, I get such little praise these days from Styrer and my wife, I need all the help I can get.)

652. Surviving Waco

Comment #262168 by Laurie Fraser on October 8, 2008 at 4:15 am

That's a double 'tard for me, Irate. What a wanker! (And coward, and criminal.)

653. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #262164 by Laurie Fraser on October 8, 2008 at 4:09 am

I'm not bashing the U.S., Styrer - I'm criticising U.S. foreign policy. I happen to admire, greatly, the United States and its people. But if I see its government behaving immorally, as it did back in the Vietnam days, and now, I'll call it. This does not mean (and I've been wrongly attacked on this point as well) that I consider, say, the exploits of the Ugandan or Egyptian or Pakistani or Russian governments to be OK, simply because I've neglected to mention it. This thread has been, originally, about the selection of Palin, and, by extension, the state of U.S. political life and behaviour. If you'd like to talk about the evils of Robert Mugabe, I am only too willing to accommodate.

On the subject of Palin - at my end of the world, reporting of her has gone fairly quiet over the past week. Is this an indication that she is starting to prove to be an embarrassment for McCain?

654. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #262155 by Laurie Fraser on October 8, 2008 at 3:52 am

Comment #262148 by Steve Zara

I am of the same opinion. McCain looked increasingly uncomfortable throughout the debate, and Obama's responses were, by far, more considered, reasoned and articulate.

655. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #262152 by Laurie Fraser on October 8, 2008 at 3:47 am

Comment #262150 by Styrer

as with all members here, you'll be judged on what you say

Why does the expression "hoist on one's own petard" come to mind here?

656. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #262146 by Laurie Fraser on October 8, 2008 at 3:40 am

Comment #262141 by Steve Zara

Ah, Steve - that comment made me burst into laughter! Anyway, what are you on about? I wish I had half your brain! (I might then be able to get my head around all of those phenomenal cosmological concepts that currently leave me boggled.)

657. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #262137 by Laurie Fraser on October 8, 2008 at 3:29 am

Steve - thanks for your comment. But please don't tell my wife that I'm "civilized"; I've been attempting to disabuse her of that notion for 37 years :)

658. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #262135 by Laurie Fraser on October 8, 2008 at 3:25 am

I don't think I'm the one suffering the irritation and indignation, as you put it. Am I a "conniving little fucker"? Do I have a "despicable agenda"? I tend to think that I'm a fairly cautious observer of the world who has had to draw conclusions about the motives and actions of countries based on the facts of those. Along the way, I've had cause to criticise governments the world over. In this instance, the U.S. is clearly guilty of excess, both in its incoherent reasons for the invasion of Iraq and its subsequent crimes against humanity. Why should that analysis be surprising or offensive? It's simply true. To posit that I have some murky agenda is fatuous.

The statement that "the effects of 9/11 have been ... to consolidate trends in the exertion of American power" is also true. Uncomfortable, to be sure, but nevertheless true. Only the pea-brained would continue to assert that the U.S. has some moral agenda that seeks to relieve the world of despotism and lead us all to freedom. Its willingness to support dictatorships throughout the 20th century (including Saddam's) demonstrates that conclusively. That the U.S. has continued to leverage its own assets (both strategic and economic) comes as no surprise - what else would we expect from a super-power? Post 9/11, the U.S. has continued to do what it does so well - does anyone still believe that the "War on Terror" even vaguely resembles, in practice, what its name suggests?

Do me a favour, Styrer, and start to think, not just regurgitate stupidities.

659. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #262113 by Laurie Fraser on October 8, 2008 at 2:33 am

Comment #262057 by Styrer

Well, for a start, it's not my words you are quoting. I'm pointing out that there are considerably more factors at play than the simplistic (of which you seem to be fond). To believe that the U.S.'s reasons for its invasion of Iraq have anything to do with a moral responsibility on the world stage is laughable. The facts, as important analysts such as Chomsky point out, disagree overwhelmingly with such a retarded perspective.

By the way, can you tell me in what areas that quote fails in both fact and analysis?

I won't lower myself to your standards of abuse, Styrer - but you do really need to understand that not everyone in the world looks at international politics through Pentagon-coloured glasses.

660. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #262030 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 8:57 pm

Styrer, sorry, that's a simplistic response to Chomsky, operating at the level of the immediate, and ignoring Chomsky's central point in the discussion of the meaning of "terrorism" - that U.S. imperialism is "terror-forming", no matter how the instantiation of policy might occur. For another angle on U.S. imperialism,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/08/2384930.htm

661. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #262028 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 8:41 pm

Mord, McCain looked bad, body language terrible, responses either apple-pie or confused. I think the Repubs should flip now, so the bikini babe might still win.

662. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #262025 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 8:33 pm

Christopher, I think cerebate means "inevitable", rather than "intentional". This is the point I was trying to make many pages ago* - that the U.S. invasion of Iraq was destined to cause widespread collateral damage, whether you judge that as the consequence of direct military action, or the resultant escalation of hostilities (including internecine conflict). I know my definition is probably broader than you'd be willing to countenance, but to me the consequences of military action cannot be judged by direct fighting alone. Hope this makes sense.

*Edit: sorry, on a different thread.

663. Dawkins: a theologian's perspective

Comment #262003 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 6:29 pm

Border Collie - is it just me, or does McCain look stiff and out of his depth here?

664. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #262002 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 6:27 pm

Christopher, would you agree that much of the Afghanistan "problem" goes way back to interference by the West, anyway? I remember that even before the Soviet incursion there, Afghanis of my acquaintance still held great suspicions about western influence stemming from the Brits and the Great Game.

665. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261974 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 5:42 pm

Goldy, as usual, you are a mine of information. However, the article does, at least, give an idea of the polarization of values in Europe, and the march of the Right.

666. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261971 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 5:29 pm

My only point is that the media seems to only portray racism as something that belongs to the right in this country. For example, I have heard black people say they would never vote republican because we are racists. Now I don't know how many black people actually think this but I definitely know some do. I just hope that this race shows them that racism has nothing to do with which party you belong to because their side has it to.

The trouble is, DP, that racism, as an institutional problem, has more often (and rightly so) been associated with the Right. That is, right-wing governments are more likely to pursue policies that have racist social effects. This does not mean that, in principle, adherents to one or another side of politics are any more or less racist than each other.

667. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261967 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 5:16 pm

Comment #261965 by DarwinsPitbull

Sorry, DP - "dinkum" is an Australianism. What I meant is that there is no reason to bring up the fact that many Democrat voters are racist - that's understood; just as there are many Labor Party voters in my country that are. Racism is not a product of political allegiance; it's a product of stupidity, pure and simple. (Which is why, by the way, accusations against me of being "anti-semitic" by others on this thread were simply laughable.)

668. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261964 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 5:11 pm

Comment #261953 by Christopher Davis

Fair comment, Christopher. BTW, I've been following the exploits of some of my Aussie compatriots in Afghanistan. There's a group of army engineers in the south (can't remember the name of the province) building a bridge for the locals. A corporal there was on the radio saying that the best way to counter the Taliban is to demonstrate to the locals that we are actually the good guys by helping their communities. I agree with that sentiment 100%.

669. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261961 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 5:04 pm

Comment #261955 by DarwinsPitbull

Fair dinkum, DP - what has that comment got to do with anything?

670. Big Bang or Big Bounce?: New Theory on the Universe's Birth

Comment #261957 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 4:59 pm

~md, "The Elegant Universe" is a wonderful, wonderful book. I'm currently reading Lee Smolin's "The Trouble With Physics", which takes a very critical look at string theory, from a philosophy of science perspective. Highly recommended, as well.

671. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261954 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 4:56 pm

Comment #261947 by root2squared

Root, that clip is fucking scary! Ignorance=racism=ignorance. One despairs; whither goes rationality? Or have these poor shmucks NEVER been able to think at all? The latter, probably.

672. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261944 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 4:44 pm

Comment #261942 by mordacious1

Double digit? That's optimistic, Mord.

673. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261940 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 4:39 pm

Ah, I see, root. So what if he was a Muslim? Aren't Americans intelligent enough to get over things like that?

Oh, silly me.

674. Big Bang or Big Bounce?: New Theory on the Universe's Birth

Comment #261937 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 4:37 pm

I agree, ~md; Greene is a brilliant communicator. I thoroughly enjoyed "The Elegant Universe". Haven't read "The Fabric of the Cosmos", thanks for the tip.

675. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261931 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 4:32 pm

One hundred and seven pages and we end up discussing Obama's grades? I think this thread has expired.

676. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261907 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 3:52 pm

Comment #261845 by mordacious1

And then they give birth to little pirates, Mord. Aaaarrrr!

Edit: great comment, root.

677. Leading geneticist Steve Jones says human evolution is over

Comment #261905 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 3:48 pm

Comment #261904 by Mitchell Gilks

Pedant!

678. Leading geneticist Steve Jones says human evolution is over

Comment #261901 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 3:41 pm

Mord, I get EXACTLY the same comment from my wife!

8, I only had one daughter who did, indeed, become a teenager, went through all that teenagers do, and came out the other side as a lovely young woman. Chin up, man - there is light at the end of the tunnel!

679. Leading geneticist Steve Jones says human evolution is over

Comment #261895 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 3:30 pm

We all make mistakes, 8 :)

(Actually, in his defence, he's a terrific young bloke. The extra fingers don't worry him at all.)

680. Leading geneticist Steve Jones says human evolution is over

Comment #261883 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 3:15 pm

I think we need the good Prof to sort this out. Richard...?

681. Leading geneticist Steve Jones says human evolution is over

Comment #261878 by Laurie Fraser on October 7, 2008 at 3:09 pm

Goldy, I had my last child at the age of 39, and I've often thought he's a bit of a mutant.

682. Dawkins: a theologian's perspective

Comment #261444 by Laurie Fraser on October 6, 2008 at 9:01 pm

And if you're fighting from a rigorously scientific/philosophical perspective, and you are dealing with what is essentially a prejudice, then all your attempts at reason run up against the incredulity position, eventually, which is nothing more than the deepest of prejudices. It's a problem. Maybe we should just KILL THEM ALL!!!! *shrieks with satanic laughter*

683. Dawkins: a theologian's perspective

Comment #261440 by Laurie Fraser on October 6, 2008 at 8:52 pm

Comment #261436 by Steve Zara

I know what you mean, Steve, and if religion was just some quaint little theoretical/semantic game, it could be quite fun to play rather often. Unfortunately, it steps out of its theoretical world all to often and imposes misery, war and heartache on people, and as such must be fought with all our available mental weaponry.

*Oops - sorry - got serious again. Damn!*

684. Dawkins: a theologian's perspective

Comment #261430 by Laurie Fraser on October 6, 2008 at 8:39 pm

Comment #261414 by Steve Zara

Bloody hell, Zara - here we were, having a nice little fireside theological chat about angels, pins, etc., and you come along and render all our efforts null and void in two simple sentences! What about the Pope, then? Ha! Gotcha! He's infallible, 'cause he says so. Tell that to your namby-pamby, conjecture and refutation-loving scientists. THERE IS CERTAINTY! THE BIBLE TELLS US SO! WE DON'T NEED FALLIBLE PEOPLE - WE'VE GOT THE POPE AND GOD!

Yours in Christ
The Reverend Lawrence.

Edit: Hey root, this is good fun, isn't it? You can say anything you like. It's almost like being a Republican.

685. Dawkins: a theologian's perspective

Comment #261411 by Laurie Fraser on October 6, 2008 at 7:57 pm

Further to that, Don - It's beyond religoids' comprehension that something can be uncaused, unless that something is god itself. That we can hypothesise (without the ability to conceptualise it) an uncaused universe demonstrates the superiority of the scientific mind.

686. Dawkins: a theologian's perspective

Comment #261409 by Laurie Fraser on October 6, 2008 at 7:53 pm

That would be the one, Mitchell, where Joshua politely knocks on the gates of the city and says "I say, chaps, it appears there's going to be an almighty earthquake in this neck of the woods. It would be a good idea if you gathered up your women and kids and took to the hills. Don't worry about the animals, gold and silver - my boys will take care of all that stuff!"

687. Dawkins: a theologian's perspective

Comment #261406 by Laurie Fraser on October 6, 2008 at 7:46 pm

"the God of the Old Testament - patiently kind, endlessly loving, achingly compassionate,"

Did this character read a different version of Joshua than I?

688. Abortion bill's rights 'breach'

Comment #260725 by Laurie Fraser on October 6, 2008 at 12:32 am

They'll stop at nothing.

689. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260707 by Laurie Fraser on October 5, 2008 at 10:59 pm

Am I wrong for not feeling sorry for someone who is trying to kill american soldiers?

Yes

690. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260705 by Laurie Fraser on October 5, 2008 at 10:57 pm

Why are the greatest universities in Australia public institutions? Why are the best schools public schools?

691. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260697 by Laurie Fraser on October 5, 2008 at 10:40 pm

They signed up knowing thats what was going to be required of them. So yes I might feel sorry for the poor little soldier who is scared and has no idea what he is doing or why he is doing this. But that empathy ends when he fires his first shot at a US soldier.

You just can't help adding to your stupidities, can you?

692. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260695 by Laurie Fraser on October 5, 2008 at 10:36 pm

But its also no surprise why public schools get criticized so much for being bad. Thats what happens when government takes control of things it has no business being in.

Well, DP, that really takes the cake for idiocy. The fact is (and you can check any number of a myriad of sources which will confirm this) that public education has been of the greatest benefit to humanity. When Australia and New Zealand introduced free, compulsory and secular education at the beginning of the twentieth century, followed by nearly every other advanced country in the world, the soaring rates of literacy, numeracy, and knowledge of science, history and geography were directly attributable to public education. No other measure has been so successful at bringing education to all. It is ignorant, fatuous, dishonest and misguided to believe anything else, especially the grossly stupid notion that government has no business being involved in education. That, and health care, are the two most important areas of government concern, dunderhead.

693. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260684 by Laurie Fraser on October 5, 2008 at 9:59 pm

I don't know you would have to ask "Laurie Fraser" who said that. She was not specific when she made the comment that she feels sorry for all soldiers no matter what side they are on. So ask her if she feels sorry for an SS officer also.

Oh dear - you really have a problem with your literalism, don't you? Now, sit up and read carefully; I'm only going to say this once. War is always engineered by antagonistic power elites. These elites use all of the forces at their disposal, including coercion and propaganda, to get ordinary men and women to fight each other. These power elites are the real evil behind war; the ordinary soldiers are thrown into a "kill or be killed" situation. Sometimes, some of these soldiers commit atrocities. Nazis, Israelis, Australians, Americans, you name it. The people who commit atrocities (or so-called "war crimes") have been either turned into criminals by the effects of war, or, less commonly, are psychopaths to begin with. Now do you understand why one could feel sorry for even them (not to mention the majority who avoid acting "criminally")?

694. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260682 by Laurie Fraser on October 5, 2008 at 9:50 pm

So believing in communism does makes you anti-american because capitalism is the way of life here. Communism is nothing but slavery, while capitalism is freedom. Freedom to fail, freedom to succeed. Communism is the complete opposite of what this country was founded on and what we stand for. Communism strives to take freedom away from people and give complete power to government. How more unamerican then that can you get.

Do you eat propaganda sandwiches everyday, DP?

695. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260670 by Laurie Fraser on October 5, 2008 at 9:19 pm

You feel sorry for every soldier no matter which side they are on? You felt sorry for nazis who were cooking jews in ovens? You feel sorry for terrorists? Sorry but its you who is pathetic.

How sadly juvenile your comprehension is.

696. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260666 by Laurie Fraser on October 5, 2008 at 9:02 pm

Yep thats pretty close to socialism. Don't think you are going to get argument from me about that.

That's even more pathetic, DP. You're not learning anything, are you?

697. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260665 by Laurie Fraser on October 5, 2008 at 8:58 pm

Surely I don't have to spell it out, DP? (OK, for you, I suppose I must.)
What the hell does being a "true" American have to do with one's evaluation of its economic system? Does your comment mean (and, if I take it literally, it must) that being a socialist citizen of the U.S. makes one a traitor? That's why you are pathetic: you don't even see the most obvious non sequiturs bubbling out of your mouth.

As is your point 3. - if you have to collapse the argument about terrorism to what individual soldiers do, then you are way out of your debating league. The terrorism I have talked about previously is that which emanates from the government level: what do the semantics of "shock and awe" mean when applied to the widespread bombing of a civilian city, for instance? I feel profoundly sorry for every soldier, no matter which side he is on.

698. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260661 by Laurie Fraser on October 5, 2008 at 8:49 pm

Yep, ain't capitalism wonderful, Goldy? (Until it goes belly up.)

699. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260658 by Laurie Fraser on October 5, 2008 at 8:43 pm

You believe socialism/marxism is the better philosophy for this country, or you just hate capitalism.

You really are pathetic, DP.

700. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260656 by Laurie Fraser on October 5, 2008 at 8:32 pm

Good one, Goldy - here's the other side;

http://www.thewe.cc/contents/more/archive/atrocities.htm

You'll always find that extremists never allow reason to get in the way of a good diatribe.