701. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32630 by Veronique on April 17, 2007 at 5:27 pm

Wow, what a lot of posts!!

Thanks to everyone for their input, as it were.

Thanks Logicel and Yorker for your levity. I didn't even think of the way I was wording things Logicel, glad you had a laugh.:)

It's interesting in the posts by blokes since mine, that such a lot of different perceptions have been disclosed. Damn!Yorker, now I can't write anything without little double entendres popping up (shit!) in my head.

I am now giggling so hard, I have to stop.

No gcdavis I haven't lost the plot. I get cross when someone accuses me of something that has nothing to do with I am saying.

Cheers
V

702. Atheism isn't the final word

Comment #32604 by Veronique on April 17, 2007 at 2:52 pm

90. Comment #32589 by Roll

Sorry you feel that way. It's a habit of mine and others and is used disparagingly. Writing or speaking Sir is also a bit like My dear man and used for the same reason.

Tavat, I read the link, wow! what an amazing rant! Then I read the intro from his own web site. This guy Feder thinks he's the bees' knees.

I received emails from thousands of my devoted fans!! He will be building himself a throne next. Maybe later, someone will build the cross.:)

V

703. Irish poll shows parents no longer want to force religion on to children

Comment #32470 by Veronique on April 17, 2007 at 6:09 am

Always loved wakes!!

The Irish have been through generations of religious strife. Same as Europe. There comes a time when you just have to give over. The deaths and the angst just don't stack up. Go Ireland. Go Gerry. I even have to say go Paisley!

Bless the lot of you! You are are an inspiration to the rest of the mucky lot. It only took 800 years; that's not bad given the internecine troubles that were killing you all.

Hats off to you. I can't even express my joy at what you have achieved (I hope it doesn't fall apart).

V

704. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32457 by Veronique on April 17, 2007 at 5:47 am

23. Comment #32428 by gcdavis

Where is my prejudice? You are off the wall kiddo. I am asking a perfectly legitimate question. I come from a different generation from you. Please do not tar me with your brush. I never confuse morality with injustice. Go take a cold shower.

What the hell do you think my question was about? You certainly haven't bothered to answer it in any of the terms in which I asked the question.

Get off your high horse and look at my post again. You think I'm unique? Grow up, you fool. Want to do a survey on how many men are circumcised? You would have to do proper surveys, with proper questions and proper statistical skewing of raw results with proper stats. And I know that people like me would have been seduced into circumcising our sons. I am no orphan mother. Go hang yourself our to dry and stop frothing. You are on the wrong tack.

24. Comment #32433 by Mikado

I find circumcision a very odd practice. Not that I have known 'normal' men. I have no idea how those men perceived their 'mutilation'. Most, within my life span, were severed in the first few days of their lives and, for all intents and purposes, have known no different.

In my sexual life, I have never known any of my lovers to have felt hampered by circumcision. They never knew any different after all. And they all orgasmed. Good luck for me!!!

It became a cultural norm. It seems to be abating now. I don't have a problem with that either. I squirm when I think of female genital mutilation, but, then I am a woman. Men also appear to squirm with regard to circumcism of males of any species. I guess that is normal as well.

I think I find it odd that we, as humans, are so hung up on sex, fidelity and virginity that we appear to have gone through an extraordinary social (with religious implications and justifications) sexual mutilation for both sexes, in order to submit to the most extraordinary religious beliefs.

Gunk? OK you guys, you are telling me that it is not an issue. OK I will accept that, In which case, it has to be ritualistic. That sucks.

I have to go to bed. This will not finish tonight. Bless you all. Please don't think that I marginalise males. I don't. Never have.

V

705. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32424 by Veronique on April 17, 2007 at 3:25 am

You poor male babies. It is an horrific multilation. I understand that the excuse in later years had to do with the gunk that could be collected under the foreskin, especially in the mercantile and navy professions (this discounts the religious imperative from the Jews who made it into a rite of passage).

I personally have never f****d any man who wasn't circumcised. By my time it had become a medical procedure that (supposedly) kept men 'clean' of the gunk. This has been spread throughout the 20th and, now, the 21st century. I have no way of knowing how valid these hygenic claims are.

I am a woman - how would I know what you blokes are told, and/or believe? I thought that sexual excitation was more sensitive for men having been circumcised which meant the glans was more excitable. I don't know that to be true. And how would my partners have known it to be true either? They were all circumcised.

I was young enough at the birth of both my sons to allow circumcision because it was 'the thing to do'. I don't even recall questioning this act.
Who has seduced whom with this act? Tell me, please.

V

706. Atheism isn't the final word

Comment #32391 by Veronique on April 17, 2007 at 1:46 am

51. Comment #32386 by Magpie

Do what I did, post him on the site where his article appeared. We are talking to the choir here. We have to get out there and, I tellyou, it makes us a little more circumspect and confrontational. Good for us!!

Let it roll.
V

707. Atheism isn't the final word

Comment #32374 by Veronique on April 17, 2007 at 1:00 am

The following is what I posted to Don Feder at USAtoday.com. No point doing it here, you guys say everything I want to say anyway. So I thought I merely copy this post to him.

Comment:

I would like to make a few salient points to your article to redress a few mis-informative statements that you make, quite wilfully, in my opinion.

1. The greatest enemy of belief in a bronze-age myth isn't indifference but 20th and 21st Century scientific findings. The marriage between 21st Century technology and so many differing religious superstitions is untenable (S.Harris). You are merely out of step with the current century.
2. Please do not extrapolate from the particular to the general. It is unseemly in someone who wishes to appear intelligent. CS Lewis, MM O'Hair are two people amongst billions. And Mark Twain was not a believer, so his question still stands. Persistence rules.
3. No one has suggested that religion can be killed by dominant psychopathic individuals with a vested interest in maintaining their own power.
4. The USA is most certainly not the most science-oriented society in history. You have a majority in your polls that think that creationism is real and evolution is bunk. Scientific, you say? Not on your nelly. Certainly not on a per capita basis.
5. A universe that isn't god centred has far more hope of human equity than one that believes that infidels (of any persuasion) should be killed. People can be good and right-minded without religion. Religious texts merely reiterate (via human authors) what we all know to be ethical.
6. Who would want to be led to the Ten Commandments? A jealous, ego-centric and exclusive misogynist? You must be joking, dear sir. You views beggar credibility. All your god says in his precious commandments is that humans have to become inhuman.
7. I have yet to see god's footprint amongst the myriad footprints of fossils found by unwearingly dedicated scientists. Could you please give me a site where these footprints can be seen?
8. You are obviously a Jewish apologist. Why? They were granted tenure over a piece of land in 1948, on the belief of a superstitious real-estate broker. That act has created the longest, enduring internecine war since WWII. Aided and abetted by the USA in the face of world censure.
9. America's trenchant belief in its own dominionism and empire-building will, as with Rome and the British, Spain, France and Germany, be its downfall together with the slide of the US dollar value. The immense debt that the US holds will sound a death knell to the Republic as the middle east starts to defend its oil reserves with the euro.

Dear man, you really need to get a life. Time marches on and you are being left behind the white picket fence mentality of the 1950s.

Cheers
V

708. Irish poll shows parents no longer want to force religion on to children

Comment #32300 by Veronique on April 16, 2007 at 6:55 pm

5. Comment #32299 by MarcKeys

You Irish are a bright and innovative bunch. I wonder how many of Australia's bright, innovative people are from Irish heritage?:-)

Whoops - a lot of you went to the US; I hope they didn't get subsumed.:-)

Seriously, these figures look mighty fine to me and I will post them on my front-of-house blackboard.

What we need are more and more surveys with less time lag between. Mind you, the 30 year time line is what makes these figures look so startling good.

Cheers
V

709. New Primate Species Found In 42 Million-year-old Texas Fossils

Comment #32157 by Veronique on April 16, 2007 at 2:49 am

My god, you mean the world is older than 10,000 years? Who would have thought it:)

Isn't it wonderful when new finds come into the microscope? I don't know how the fossils were treated and therefore can't make a comment.

'Tis interesting that most archaeologists talk about human animals coming over the Bering Strait at about 14,000 to 18,000 years ago. And here we have primates at 42 million years. What an interesting find.

I await all reviews, peer reviews and further research. Bloody fascinating.

V

710. Answers To the Atheists

Comment #32146 by Veronique on April 16, 2007 at 1:40 am

117. Comment #32140 by Logicel

I am not a flirt either. I am in absolute awe of the natural world, its endless variety and diversity.

I also agree that the whys are non productive questions. The hows are the questions that matter.

Science asks this question, builds hypotheses, tests and re-tests carefully collated results from carefully collated reasearch with carefully weighted result criteria. That is right and proper as a check and balance on any potential flim flam of wilfully postulated theory.

I take issue with some poster that commented that people posting here take RD at his word and imbibe him with unconditional glee.

I still remember when I first looked at my body and thought 'wow, what an amazing organism with which to continue the transfer of genes'. That was just me. I look at cats (I love mine) and fish (fish are a real trip with me) and every other animal and plant with which I come into contact and I never lose this wondrous awe that hit me so many decades ago.

All this, long, long before RD wrote TGD. And then there was TGD. What a delight! Do I take on board unquestioningly everything that RD says? Not on your nelly!

I have read and re-read bits of TGD over and over again. The words on each re-read, make me look at such a variety of things in ways I had not looked at them before (even on the first read).

I think that people who are able (and then some) to put thoughts on paper cogently and thoughtfully deserve thoughtful reflection. That means research and more research. I don't have a problem with that.

RD has taken me back into the bible (I was never very interested in that), into the Koran (ditto) and into earlier books on evolutionary biology (always was interested).

From TGD I found Paul Davies, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, Lewis Wolpert and a myriad of other writers. Just what my busy little brain wanted.

I am now fully occupied reading the most marvellous authors, weighing up terrific theses with terrific ideas and terrific responses. I have never felt so at home.

This site is wonderful for me. But I am getting tired of unconvincing, unprovable and downright cant from people who are unable to evidence their stances and so use vituperative posts to alienate me.

If it is impossible to troll these posters then here I say that I will not entertain any more responses to such posts. It is oxygen that I am concerned with and the waste of this small component of our atmosphere.:)

I have to say that Julia Sweeney was an absolute treat. Go on Shrommer do it. Go outside on a clear night and contemplate yourself in this marvellous planet, without any religious baggage. I wish I could guarantee that you would love it. But I somehow suspect that the baggage is tied firmly with hoops of steel (sorry Shakespeare) to your back. I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you all and goodnight
V

711. Einstein & Faith

Comment #32141 by Veronique on April 16, 2007 at 1:01 am

Hey you guys,

We appear to have another angry xtian poster in chamber. I found a couple of comments on another thread that made no sense to me at all. Chamber seems to be baiting. She/he is going to distract us and is fairly belligerent as well. I did put a query to her/him on the genie thread before I accessed this one. Oxygen is precious, I think this one may be a waste.

Chamber, if this is what you are attempting, could you please find a more congenial site to make your posts? I can assure you that you will be ignored and/or trolled if you keep posting the way you appear to be.

V

712. Genie shows barred by Islam, clerics say

Comment #32135 by Veronique on April 15, 2007 at 11:30 pm

6. & 17. Comment #32130 by chamber

What on earth are you on about. I'm sorry but I can't understand what you are asking or why. I don't comprehend any relevance to this thread quite frankly.

Are you attempting to goad posters? Or just having a bit of unintelligle fun?

If you look back over these threads, I doubt whether you will find any poster afraid of talking. Why we all go on like veritable drains. Nothing seems to shut us up. Except disinterest, of course.

Be a little more understandable please

Cheers
V

713. Against God

Comment #32131 by Veronique on April 15, 2007 at 10:47 pm

27. Comment #32107 by WittyReference

Don't you love it? I didn't realise that there were as many as 70,000 Jedis in the 2001 census. That's brilliant.

I wonder what figures will show on last year's census? I wait with bated breath!

Australians are great at taking the piss. Think of another national broadcaster that would fund The Chaser's War on Everything. It is so utterly irreverent.

There are advantages to living on a big island, with no land-bordered countries and far away from similar ethnicities and cultures.

That means a lot of freedom to develop your own cultural oddities. Taking the piss is good Aussie sport. Everyone seems to indulge sometime. There's a rep. for broadmindedness and congeniality as well. And a healthy distrust of politicians.

I have to agree that the religites are trying to change the flavour of Australia, by worming into politics. Hard ask though, most Aussies don't give the proverbial flying ****.

Might have had something to do with being dumped at the bottom of the world and told to go for it. There's a decently developed BS detector in Aussies that extends to a dislike of authority for authority's sake.

Cheers
V

714. Nisbet and Mooney in the WaPo: snake oil for the snake oil salesmen

Comment #32127 by Veronique on April 15, 2007 at 9:22 pm

56. Comment #32124 by MIND_REBEL

Tell you what I sometimes do. I open up a new Word document and type my post in Word. That way I can go over it, take my time, fix up any errors, spelling etc. Then I copy it into the posting box here.

It's worth a try. I wouldn't worry about the tough-skinned people here. But I would say, don't stop posting, the practice is good. And the replies are good as well. You get told if you are out of line or wrong or haven't a prevailing opinion, but hey! that's good too.

I tend to think that I am intelligent, but on this website, I have learned a lot from a lot of people who have different areas of expertise and a heap of knowledge as well as opinions.

Don't stop, just practice more.

Cheers
V

715. Nisbet and Mooney in the WaPo: snake oil for the snake oil salesmen

Comment #32098 by Veronique on April 15, 2007 at 4:26 pm

31. Comment #31987 by briancoughlanworldcitizen

Nice one Brian. I have just clicked on the subscription. You use a different name on youtube. I hope I clicked on the right thing.

Cheers
V

716. Nisbet and Mooney in the WaPo: snake oil for the snake oil salesmen

Comment #32096 by Veronique on April 15, 2007 at 4:03 pm

24. Comment #31962 by Yorker

Great advice. My brother used to do that when he was younger.

When I was on my little farm, the JWs used to drive over the top cattle grid which alerted me to their impending visit.

If I had clothes on, I used to whip them all off and lean on the hoe or whatever farming implement I happened to have at hand. By the time they got to where I was, they were sufficiently horrified to do a u-turn and belt their way up the drive and leave me in peace.

I decided that in their marketing meetings they must have a grid-type map and that eventually a big red X was put on my property. It worked.

I haven't had a visit in years since I have been in town. On my door, I attached a sign that reads:

Pedlars of trinkets be they spiritual or otherwise, need not knock on this door

It works. Two little old ladies turned around and left about 9 years ago and that has been it. Sob:) another red X!!

Cheers
V

717. Against God

Comment #32095 by Veronique on April 15, 2007 at 3:37 pm

I would be prepared to make the assumption that a number of people posting here live in situations where they simply cannot disclose to their communities and families that they have let go of belief in religion.

There's another fellow like Fonex with whom I email correspond in Arizona who is in the same position. He can't tell his parents. He just can't. And that's that. I have emailed the link to this site to him. He may find some solace here.

This web site must be a haven for all people who can't come out of the closet for whatever reason. Maybe it's the only place they can feel honest and talk openly.

They need our support.

Having said that, good on John Perkins. He possibly couldn't do it in the US.

The "Beyond Belief" forum, at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in California late last year resembled, The New York Times reported, "the founding convention for a political party built on a single plank: in a world dangerously charged with ideology, science needs to take on an evangelical role, vying with religion as teller of the greatest story ever told."

Trust the NY times to put this spin on the Beyond Belief talks. It says nothing about the incredible amount of information that was presented in that forum.

A well written article, I thought. I'll forgive McCamish's Russell lapse. A good article in a well read paper. Congrats.

Cheers
V

718. Nisbet and Mooney in the WaPo: snake oil for the snake oil salesmen

Comment #31940 by Veronique on April 15, 2007 at 1:54 am

18. Comment #31937 by Logicel

OK, did you get the two PMs I sent you? I have never had to remember to check, I get a notification in my email which alerts me to click on the link for responses. Otherwise I never think to look at my msg on RD's site.

I'll check now.
V

719. Nisbet and Mooney in the WaPo: snake oil for the snake oil salesmen

Comment #31934 by Veronique on April 15, 2007 at 1:36 am

16. Comment #31933 by Johan

You will be horrified and gobsmacked by the Jesus Camp. It is one of the most horrific videos I have seen. Child abuse to the 'n'th degree. You need to see it even though it is so awful. You can watch it on youtube. Can't recall the link - just put jesus camp in the search field and all relating videos will be displayed.

To every American religite apologist, I say that this co-ordinated effort to play American jihadist is the most appalling I have ever seen. Don't tell me that you are a 'moderate'. You allow the springboard of this extremism to develop and grow.

Oh Johan, you won't like this but it is essential viewing.

In anguish
V

720. Nisbet and Mooney in the WaPo: snake oil for the snake oil salesmen

Comment #31932 by Veronique on April 15, 2007 at 1:12 am

14. Comment #31928 by Logicel

When I joined this site in December, I think when I set up my profile (go through forums, I think), I clicked on the 'notification that something has been posted and we will email you with that notification' button.

I started with the forum comment/posts that I made. The first notification I got was to do with the 50 book challenge and I assumed it was specifically for me and made a terrible response.
So embarrassing. It is actually an automatic email you receive that tells you that someone has sent you a private message or a response to a forum post on a particular forum that you posted to.

Go to your profile and scroll down to preferences. Click on the notification button. That should do it.

Cheers
V

721. Nisbet and Mooney in the WaPo: snake oil for the snake oil salesmen

Comment #31926 by Veronique on April 15, 2007 at 12:52 am

11. Comment #31923 by Logicel

Nice one Logicel. See my post above yours.

I will say it here, please turn on the notification button on your profile. I have tried to send you PMs that still sit in my outbox.

Cheers
V

722. Nisbet and Mooney in the WaPo: snake oil for the snake oil salesmen

Comment #31919 by Veronique on April 15, 2007 at 12:28 am

PZ is terrific and utterly without fear or cant.

Hey Karl here's 'snake oil' again. It must be making a comeback!! Yippee beans.

We have talked at length about moderate and extreme xtians on this site. So has RD and Harris in their books.

The article that PZ is lambasting requests that rationalists made similar divisions of moderatism and extremism. Utterly inappropriate and typically slidey of marketers (with apologies to any marketers on this site).

I must say here that I have immense problems with Marketing Gurus. The 'sell' is usually constructed to part people from their hard-earned cash. In this case from their hard-earned knowledge. Wow, what an insult.

The psychology of packaging a concept, product, idea, ideology, religion, capitalism (you can add as many others as you would like) to sucker in the Joneses leaves me unimpressed.

Rational discussion; not a problem. You are on your merits in that arena. If you can't deliver, then it's back to the drawing board.

For god's sake, Charles Simonyi funded and founded the chair for the best exponent of publicly available science that is around. RD was asked by his fellow scientists to publish for the likes of me in the 1970s. That's nearly 40 years ago. He's done extraordinarily well over those years. Bless his cotton socks.

Marketing - I am sure all of us here have been unwilling recipients at one time or another to the 'marketing spiel'.

My cynicism is ever enhanced by the tele-marketers that bedevil my phone line. They are onto "G" at the moment. Yesterday (Saturday here), I had 3 of the buggers attempt to speak to me as the 'owner of the business'. I have learnt to give them short shrift. It is a pernicious trend in this time. And I do know that jobs are in short supply and people are forced into these pretend jobs with the promise of a (seemingly good) commission on each sale (less the costrs of the phone calls, I presume).

Thank you PZ, don't ever, ever give in. I know you won't.

3. Comment #31890 by MIND_REBEL

Methinks you are much younger than I. Keep the passion, hone your skills, temper the delivery, read a lot. Be considered in response, if possible. We all get cross sometimes. That's not really an excuse for ill-considered posts or extreme views that are divisive, especially on these threads.

You may lose your ability to discern and that is not a good look. You have been told to grow up; I think it may be better advice to say, grow out.

Cheers
V

723. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #31913 by Veronique on April 15, 2007 at 12:03 am

95. Comment #31827 by Logicel

Hey Logicel, turn on the notification of messages in your profile. I have sent two PMs with links to you, but I am not sure that you have been notified of their arrival or that you have received them.

It's the only thing that I can think of as to why they are still sitting in my outbox. Let me know, please if you get the links.

Regards
V

724. For God's Sake

Comment #31869 by Veronique on April 14, 2007 at 7:18 pm

79. Comment #31863 by Rtambree

Maybe the ubiquitous sun worship has made Sydneyites lazy:)

I have not lived (as an adult) in the US or Europe, so I can't comment at all. Since I have little in the way of comparison of any sort, I presume I just live in my little world where I access what I want. I will admit, there are few, if any, people I can hold a decent conversation with. There are even fewer that are interested in what I am interested in.

So I am very glad this forum exists and that you and other posters are here.

Cheers
V

725. Is God poison?

Comment #31865 by Veronique on April 14, 2007 at 6:47 pm

156. Comment #31731 by Rtambree

Not just Abbott & Costello either. There are a lot of closeted Christians in both state and federal parliaments. And in the regulatory frameworks. Remember Alan Fels? Devout catholic – never knew that when he was at WA Uni. There are many others.

I think that the committed religites, believing (that's the key!) that they have to save the rest of the hoi poloi from irreverence, are more driven, especially today. There is a global rise in religious paternalism. I don't think your question is an either/or. I suspect that both are components for electoral success. Never, since the DLP, has Australia seen this level of religiosity. And it is growing across the board and across political parties.

We haven't separated church and state the way the US did (and is now in the process of being successfully hijacked). Australia is still an Act of Parliament in UK legislation. I don't know about you, but I was very vocal about the republican push. I have no problem severing ties with the UK however I was, and still am, dead against giving more power to the PM, whoever he may be. Paddy O'Brien gave a magnificent speech during the debate, great Irishman that he was. Wonderful boozy debates down at Steve's, WA Uni's pub.

The more I see of Bush and Blair (and increasingly of Howard and his cohorts), the more I know that Australia has to come up with something very different in the separation of powers under any mooted republican model.

I also think that the world (as well as Australia) has a way to go before theism will go back into its closet. When you think about it, this has a lot to do with the exponential rise of different forums like this one. If RD and Josh had developed this web site six years earlier, it would have languished for want of interested posters. Atheists, traditionally, just get on with living because there is nothing to proselytise. Now, I think there ought to be a push to have critical thinking and analysis taught as one of the core subjects in public schools. But Julie Bishop will put paid to that in her dream of a national curriculum. Has to be grass roots. Get to know teachers in your local schools. Build it from the ground up. Apathy is the biggest problem in Australia and, I guess, elsewhere. Europe is in strife too, Look at the latest article here.

There is most definitely a fight out there. Whether we like it or not, sitting on our hands doesn't seem to be an option any more. Atheism, being a lack of belief, has rarely been militant (there's that word again. Sorry to whichever poster here that doesn't like the term). It has mostly been a non-issue. But now, when reason and science is being attacked by subversive means in an attempt to discredit the very fundamentals of scientific enquiry and replace them with spurious arguments that appeal to uncertainty with a vicious religious belief system, the rationalists have to make their voice heard.

Hats off to RD, Harris, Dennett, Wolpert and everyone else for getting this basic issue into the public arena. Fly like an eagle, don't scratch with the turkeys (or words to that effect).

There will be many others who, in the ensuing days, months and years, will also publish and lecture. Let's hope that some of them will be some of us from these threads. Reason deserves our continued and public support. But let's try to resist the forming of global or even national movements. I am very fearful of this sort of seduction into in and out groups.

Onward and ever upward! Optimism rules!

V

726. For God's Sake

Comment #31862 by Veronique on April 14, 2007 at 5:51 pm

76. Comment #31736 by Rtambree

I seem to be apologising to you. I guess I don't see Australia as you do. I certainly don't want to get into Helian territory.

I do think you are correct about the majority (not just in the suburbs) being on a mouse wheel of working, breeding and consuming without any thought to broader intellectual, scientific, cultural, social, religious, and political issues.

This can be said of any country. I think I just took exception to the bracketing of Australia.

Didn't mean to piss you off or misquote you.

V

727. As Religious Strife Grows, Europe's Atheists Seize Pulpit

Comment #31861 by Veronique on April 14, 2007 at 5:39 pm

40. Comment #31842 by MIND_REBEL

Think about Africa's history.

Warring tribes trying to hold on to territories with fluctuating land borders. Internecine warfare between tribes, and I do mean internecine.

The push of Islam, almost from the time of Mohammed, from the north with its militant proselytising. Ethiopia resisted, was a healthy, wealthy territory albeit Christian. Look at it now.

The infiltration of the Boers into the south and their subsequent seizing of indigenous land.

The rise of European imperialsim and the inevitable heel-following infestation of missionaries. The continuing disenfranchisement of indigenes.

The slave trade that saw Africans as sub-human, abused, demoralised, in chains and/or murdered.

The rape, pillage and plunder of Africa's natural resources by the imperialists.

Now the fight for supremacy between Christianity and Islam in this poor benighted country.

Desperate, hungry, marginalised, decimated, diseased (mostly western plagues against which the Africans have little resistance), angry, distrustful, a sense of hopelessness, degraded, demoralised ... add your own observations as well. A proselytiser's heaven.

This situation is exactly the favoured scenario for all missionaries.

'Get in there, make them dependent, save them for god (of whatever flavour) and give them spiritual sustenance and subsistence level living standards. Keep them in thrall, indoctrinate all their children in schools that we build. Keep them under our thumb. We are doing the lord's work and we will receive lollies from god when we pass over to that great cornucopia in the sky.'

It sickens me to the core of my being. Sure there's education, laced with religious concepts, but not for all children. Sure there are hospitals, but not for all.

And western appetites have deliberately made monsters of tribal leaders to the detriment of their own people. The inequity is appalling.

I firmly believe that education is the way out of this mire. But not religious education and that is what so many Africans appear to be getting. Some break free, but they are few. 240,000 children die from starvation and disease (I remember the number but not the time frame).

The latest imperial power, the US, is following exactly the same path as all the others that went before with the help of the IMF to enslave these people with debt forever, while the US corporate world waxes fat on the skinny bones of the African peoples.


And this post describes a miniscule view of the history of this poor country.

Wow, that turned into a rant. Sorry everyone.

V

728. Medical 'Miracles' Not Supported by Evidence

Comment #31858 by Veronique on April 14, 2007 at 4:58 pm

19. Comment #31747 by Yorker

Hahaha! Wanker is a very well used and usually socially acceptable disparagement in the old Oz. It does, however, have the onanastic connotations to which you alluded.

As in: He must have two. He couldn't be that silly doing(euphemism)one.LOL

It's interesting that the word has taken on so many shades of meaning from its original that it is socially acceptable.

Good lists of changed meanings. I do recommend to everyone, Bill Bryson's Mother Tongue and Melvyn Bragg's The Adventure of English.

Both excellent books and, of course, Bryson spent so long in the UK, that he has some hilarious Brysonesque tales to relate. Well worth a read; I couldn't put either one down and talk about LOL!

Cheers
V

729. Is God poison?

Comment #31718 by Veronique on April 14, 2007 at 1:57 am

Qball

Have you read Marion Maddox's God Under Howard?

You are right, Howard would never admit to a hot line to god. He would be laughed out of office. He is one canny pollie however, he's been backdooring the rad.right into Australian legislation for a fair while and he knows what side his bread is buttered.

Methinks, he may be coming unstuck. This is possibly more my wishful thinking, he tends to read the electorate pretty well. Not sure how Rudd will turn up either. He had to disclose that he was a christian (???) in order to garner, at least, some of the religites here. Who knows what these geezers actually say as against what they actually believe.

Big battle in the offing until November. Shit, such a long time to wait.

Not happy
V

730. Answers To the Atheists

Comment #31715 by Veronique on April 14, 2007 at 1:10 am

Benway,

You must have been very bored. No tomatoes though, the season has ended here and I preserve them before they get rotten:)

I am not sure that I think anyone is smug; pissed off maybe, but not smug.

I have very few ordinary religious friends. The ones I do have are utterly unshakeable in their belief. They are not worried about books and theology, but they are unshakeable.

What does that tell you? It tells me that the indoctrination that they underwent as kids has stayed with them. One woman is a loving, caring, utterly unshakeable Roman Catholic who calls me her very good friend and means it. She has said to me that she likes my intelligence and that is why she likes me (apart from the fact that I am also a loving, caring person who helps people and gets incensed at manipulation).

She just can't hear anything else except her religious dogma. She prays for me, I am sure. She is certainly not stupid in any other way except in this religious belief.

I assure you I do speak up to this woman. She smiles at me and discounts anything that relates to evolutionary theory.

I don't think that atheists are self-congratulationary. They can be argumentative and so can religites. All people try to present their points of view, some with passion. So what.

Why would you propose that atheists are brain damaged? Surely they have merely grown up and put childish things behind them. Not touchy-feely? Not psychologically minded?

Oh, I see, I have fallen into your trap in the midst of your being bored and unable to sleep. Damn, you got a rise out of me.

Now go to sleep you silly man.

V

731. Medical 'Miracles' Not Supported by Evidence

Comment #31707 by Veronique on April 14, 2007 at 12:10 am

greatness,

Or rather, Daniel, where the hell are you? That was a quick response!!

I am glad you like this virtual community. It salves the soul, as it were.

Cheers
V

732. Medical 'Miracles' Not Supported by Evidence

Comment #31703 by Veronique on April 13, 2007 at 11:48 pm

greatness,

Welcome to the pages of comments you have now joined.

I don't know what to make of ESP and I don't really know a comprehensively and universally accepted definition. I suspect it has something to do with second guessing, subtle manipulation and clever footwork. The neuroscientists will, one day maybe, have some illuminating thoughts with experimentation and testable results to tell the rest of us. Until then I put it in the same realm as snake oil salesmen. Clever tricksters, making a motza.

Having said that, I know there are lots of unexplained phenomena. I try not to fill the gaps until the jury is in. And I may well be dead before that occurrence, but I cannot be seduced into filling the gaps.

Since I am of the opinion that trying to talk sense and reason to nonsensical and unreasonable people is really a waste of time and energy (I know, I know, I am not being responsible enough), I think you could use a sentence with your newly acquired friend:

By all means, keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.

Just a suggestion.....
V

733. Medical 'Miracles' Not Supported by Evidence

Comment #31701 by Veronique on April 13, 2007 at 11:27 pm

Hey Karl,

I meant to say a couple of days ago, welcome to your real name, but it must have slipped my memory.

I am getting on to being an old chook and 'snake oil' has been part of my cultural vocabulary for ever. John Diamond was a bit older than I, so it was probably part of his cultural heritage as well.

Your post got me thinking, so I went to wikipedia. Take a squizz at the origins (I didn't know that it was originally Chinese). I have always used it as a disparaging term for wanky medicinals. And I put on 'that tone of voice' whenever I say it!!

For me, it is an absolutely, perfectly descriptive term for BS medicinals. I sometimes, imprudently, find myself in discussion with 'true believers' in homeopathic medicines. That's when 'the voice' comes out. Plus the studies, the debunking and eventually the placebo effect. I should stop talking with these people because I get so irritated by the claims.

I can tell you one thing though. I must be a poor arguer, because those I have discussed it with still retain their 'belief' in the tiny, little pills or liquid with no active ingredient whatsoever.

I just hate good money going to such quackery, thereby giving them some credence.

Damn.
V

734. The God Delusion is one of the Ten Best Audiobooks

Comment #31695 by Veronique on April 13, 2007 at 10:33 pm

Brian,

(hehehe)I think you secretly like putting videos together. Great job, well done. It doesn't appear to take you very long to compose them either. I am in awe - I have no idea how this stuff is done. Magic, I reckon:)

I think you could easily expand the GW theme and start adding bits and pieces. Do a series, each one with one or two aspects of climate change.

You already know my little horse is global population. Here's a letter I sent to SMH (one of our city papers)

There's an elephant in the room that no one wants to see. It's called global population. In the past 60 years global population has expanded from 2.5B to 6.6B and is estimated to grow to 9.1B in the next 50 years. The Optimum Population Trust indicates that 2B – 3B is a sustainable global population.

The runaway, out-of-control population increase in humanity is the root cause of climate change, global warming, water shortages, desertification, species extinction and any number of other environmental stressors in the world. It is our single biggest and ongoing issue.

Many people and organizations recognise the need for a national population policy, but it remains a non-topic for our politicians. A National Population Summit held in Melbourne in 2002 has had no follow-up. We still do not have a National Population Policy. But nationalism has little place in this scenario except as part of a co-ordinated effort; it is a global problem.

This is a finite planet: its carrying capacity is fixed. And it is in trouble. While the spectre of climate change is growing and various countries argue about what action they should take and try to limit the effect on their economies, global population is rarely mentioned.

There is no way climate change, global warming, water shortages, desertification, species extinction and all other environmental problems will ever be adequately controlled until we learn how to control our human population.

Go to www.popcouncil.org and www.optimumpopulation.org check out their work in developing and developed countries.

Oops, I have a feeling I have put this letter on another thread. Sorry all.

Cheers
V

735. Medical 'Miracles' Not Supported by Evidence

Comment #31684 by Veronique on April 13, 2007 at 8:49 pm

I think it is desperation that drives people to consult these self-styled healers, religites or whatever.

I have just watched a Foreign Correspondent segment about the number of Zimbabweans leaving their country riskily through barbed wire fencing to get into South Africa. A lot of them ended up in a Methodist Church. Now I am not saying they shouldn't, because the Church is offering food and shelter. But I think that the Church, as always, offers alms with dogma and desperate (and very poor, in more than just a monetary sense) people will be attracted to whatever holds out hope and comfort or solace.

I recall reading Snake Oil and other Preoccupations by John Diamond. He was offered all manner of alternative treatments for his cancer. He researched them, dismissed them and eventually died. His strength was in his rejection of BS treatments.

Unfortunately many are not as strong as he, and are seduced by unscrupulous 'snale oil' salesmen, who prey on the rest and can become quite fabulously rich doing so.

I think you are right Spinoza, the internet is an aid to these shysters; they can use it with the same facility as anyone else to get a message through. Haha, I totally understand your post. Fortunately, for me, today is beautiful, the sun is shining, the cats are snoozing and the fish are swimming up and down my little creek. Life is good.

Poor Debbie, let's hope she comes out of her own deluded trance.

Cheers
V

736. For God's Sake

Comment #31681 by Veronique on April 13, 2007 at 8:25 pm

heliosG2V!

I am so glad you addressed the Hilaly issue. You are right, I think his people want him out of here: I heard an interview with a great imam whose name I can't recall. He said that none of the Council wanted him in Australia any longer, he creates too much trouble.

I invited one young physics teacher who can't disclose his lack of belief to his family, friends, church or anyone in his community to come to Australia. I think he is living in a very unhealthy environment and he'd be welcomed here. We are screaming out for teachers as well.

I put my voice with Helios. I posted somewhere, in answer to a poster who labelled parts of our country intellectually barren, that we are indeed laid back, irreverent and helpful to each other. Great climate(s), open vistas (well, not in high rise cities that's true anywhere). The whole feeling of Australia is open. That goes a long way to improve anyone's outlook.

I think the poster I answered had a pretty jaundiced view. He had lived in the western suburbs of Sydney. All cities also have a wide variety of people, some of whom you want to know, so of which you don't. It all comes down to choice of association.

Hey, it's worth a look! at least.

Cheers
V

737. For God's Sake

Comment #31637 by Veronique on April 13, 2007 at 3:06 pm

Hellian, SpagMonster, JC Samuelson and any other,

I posted this link somewhere else for Helian; since everyone is here, I'll repost it. It's an article about what was/is happening in the US, its international slide in reputation, its corrupt administration, the rise of those who resist what they are being fed in the media. Interesting article from Manuel Valenzuela.

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=21491

To see no danger in the rad.right of the US and its spawning in Canada, UK, Australia is to be wilfully blind to political and ideological machinations. Not just the Regent institution but the Partick Henry College(s), bent on grooming rad.right grads for the political arena.

Here's another article worth a read, about Pat Robertson's insidious iniltration techniques.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/50408/

I can't remember the proper quote but it has to do with good men saying nothing while 'evil' grows. It was specifically quoted re: Hitler, but I think the actual quote is much earlier.

RD & Harris see this and many others do as well. They are publishing and more will do so. There is a real and present danger that rad.right infiltration is continuing at an increasing rate. You have 22 months left of the present administration; a lot can be done in that time.

Helian you can be as wordy as you like about what you perceive as anti-Americanism. In the world outside the US, I have to say, the feeling is there. Sorry.

Cheers
V

738. U.N. Draft Cites Humans in Recent Climate Shifts

Comment #31490 by Veronique on April 13, 2007 at 12:35 am

This is an update on the bee disaster. I thought I'd post it here, because this thread is the most appropriate. I hope a number of you get to see this.

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=21462

It's getting even more serious. An increasing number of countries are reporting high numbers of loss in their bee populations.

If it continues unchecked, then there won't be biofuels, at least from maize. In the long run, fertilisation figures drop. Then it's deep shit time.

V

739. Is God poison?

Comment #31483 by Veronique on April 12, 2007 at 11:20 pm

Helian,

Here's a link I came across today in information liberation. It's an essay discussing America in relation to 9/11, empire building, international reputation, corporatisation, militancy: I could go on.

It's called The Great American Catalyzing Event, by Manuel Valenzuela. At the bottom of the essay, are his contact details.

I thought you may like to read it.

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=21491

Cheers
V

740. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #31339 by Veronique on April 12, 2007 at 4:33 am

Logicel,

Very difficult when you have to adhere to past representations. Queen, pope, family adherents. Thank god, the rest of us are relatively free. The problem is that we have little if any voice. This is the (not so)strange attraction to power.

I will be able to exert my power upon my subjects; I have been imbued with a suspertitious power that you, my subjects, have made a pact upon. I am supreme, and I will look after you so long as you accept my supremacy and my humility to a greater being.

Hard when you have millions of dollars/pounds at you disposal. How best to subvert - give them money and titles and land and serfs (or the modern equivalent, tenants) Call it
entrepreneurship (let's suck everyone in). We are indeed a very weird species. With a limited life span! Damn.

Have you changed your name yet Logicel? I hope you do!

Cheers
V

741. The Human Body as an Evolutionary Patchwork

Comment #31305 by Veronique on April 12, 2007 at 1:34 am

Try reading Paul Davies The Goldilocks Enigma; why is the universe just right for life? published late last year.

Interesting book and some theses.

I love the way we are a patchwork. What a great expression. I also really like that the mitochondria are passed on through each generation totally unchanged. Matrilineal advantage. Makes tracking everything much easier.

What a great lecturer. Easy, gently funny and packs a big punch.

I, too, am going to listen to Peter Ward. The Princeton site looks terrific. Lots of 'stuff'. I love 'stuff'.

Logicel, I also took the whites of the eyes to be co-operative and careful rather than any other way. We needed to know when danger was about and that we wouldn't have abreactions in our own group. Could have (and probably did) disastrous results.

Cheney - no whites. A considered opinion!!:)

Cheers
V

742. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #31298 by Veronique on April 12, 2007 at 1:17 am

Has Benedict thought that god may be too narrow to explain evolution?

Ohio I love the argument from grammar. Priceless.

"The Pope also says the Darwinist theory of evolution is not completely provable because mutations over hundreds of thousands of years cannot be reproduced in a laboratory."

What I'd like to know is when Benedict is going to put creation and god into a laboratory and reproduce them.

This is a silly article, I grant, however as someone said, he's streaks ahead of the rad.right in the US and UK.

He has his life vested in his followers bowing and scraping to him. Hard to give up that power and just be a bloke, eh? Much easier and more profitable to be an apologist. I actually think that Benedict, if you could crack his head open, may be a more reasonable bloke. It is the 21st century, he's not stupid and he is expected (and took the role) to come down on the side of religion. Pity in a way. Without his indoctrination and the rest of the guff, he could well be an interesting fellow.

Ah well, we'll never know. Just wish he would stop the condom BS. We can blame him when the population reaches 9.1B in 2050 and we all croak from starvation and asthma and the multitude of other woes that will attend our demise.

Oops! JC didn't come back and waft us all into the clouds. So sad. Geocentricity does have its downside.

Cheers
V

743. Is God poison?

Comment #31258 by Veronique on April 11, 2007 at 7:17 pm

Sorry,

It was the one way ticket that gave the impression of leaving in a huff never to return.

Well, westies. I have never lived there, have only been subject to media reports, so you would know better than I.

Lived in Melbourne for 5 fairly climatically challenged years, taught in tech,schools and yes, I will say there was a diffuclty in raising intellectual consciousness. As a teacher, you tend to be pretty elated if you only find one or two in a class. I found them, 'twas wonderful.

Visited, but never lived in Sydney. Yes, I know what you are saying about the superficiality. I moved in a different sort of group of people I think, 'cause science was on the radar. I stayed in Glebe, though, so maybe that accounts for it.

Spent educational years in Perth, loved it. I come from an academic and scientifically oriented family, that may also have accounted for it.

Now, in Mullumbimby, I live in a world of my own. Everyone thinks I am an intellectual (I am not), I get up people's noses and I am so pleased I have a computer and found this site.

I still think you are a little harsh. I have never really had difficulty finding the things I want to know. Of course, computers help. I have been retired for about 1-2 years, sort of. Ealier on it was head down, butt up, so maybe I just didn't notice the sorts of things you did.

And okay, the midday news has just said our basic increase in wages is 4.2%. And yes, I live very well; I do grow my own food in the backyard. Couldn't do it in a high rise, I know. In any case, on a global count, I feel very privileged.

Cheers
V

744. Is God poison?

Comment #31256 by Veronique on April 11, 2007 at 6:21 pm

Oh Rtambree,

Such harsh words. Of course a lot of artists and scientists and philosophers leave Australia. They leave in order to attend other tertiary institutions, experiment and publish, knock around with other artists and visit places of antiquity and soak up different cultures. Very normal I would have thought. It is, however, not true that none of them comes back to Australia. It is certainly not true to say, in your throw away line, that Australia can be intellectually barren.

Up until the 1960s, young people in Australia felt almost obliged to visit 'the mother country' and beyond. There is a sense of isolation in the antipodes, though these days, it's more of a residual idea than a reality.

The so-called 'middle class' shrank continually after WWII; there is about 8% to 12 or 15% that could be called middle class now. It shows up in the census records taken every 4 years collected nationally by the Bureau of Census and Statistics. So the standard of living is going the way of most countries; the divide between the haves and the have nots is growing at a fast rate. The economic treadmill that underscores home ownership (the Australian Dream, if you like) is much the same as in any 1st world country. However, like a lot of countries, Australia has just about eaten the available land for the ¼ acre block. A lot of Australians now want to live by themselves; that eats up land very quickly. Australia's population is greater than the land can sustain and everything is starting to implode.

Public dissent is quite vocal in Australia. There are many publications that mount scathing attacks on both the Liberal Party and Labor. The Greens come in for a bashing, the poor old Democrats are nearly a spent force and a multitude of small, mostly unrepresented, political parties abound. As Great Teapot pointed out, Germaine Greer was spawned by Australia, as was Pauline Hanson who created a furore when she was elected to the Senate.

Australia also has a record for medical innovation and research that is, for all practical purposes, greater (certainly on a per capita basis) than anywhere else. Hey, two Australian researchers have just solved the riddle of cervical cancer – the papilloma virus. Australians are, by and large, great innovators in all sorts of areas. I should say that you wouldn't have had sliced bread if it hadn't been for a Melbourne housewife developing the mechanism with which to cut a whole loaf at once. The green bean stringer is another one (we won't mention the Hills Hoist). Ordinary innovations as well as medical, biochemical and archaeological (there are a lot of fossils).

I know that Australia, having a congenial climate and a massive shoreline, has a love of sport. 'Tis true, and a lot of Australia's sportspeople excel in international sports events. There are passionate exchanges between ardent sports fans however, Australia has not played host to the hooliganism with which many others countries have had to deal. That part of hooliganism that has shown its face in Australia is, so far, imported. Apart from the things that affect Australia as much as anywhere else, it is a very open society with very little in the way of snobbery, class divisions or wank.

It is an easy place to live; I never lock my car or house – never had anything nicked. Anyone will help anyone else, information flows pretty easily, hitchhiking is a breeze, museums, theatre, art galleries. Percentage wise? You say 5 – 10%, if that, of cultural outlets. Don't know – never counted them. Melbourne is one of the most culturally diverse cities in the world. Sydney is one of the most cosmopolitan in the world.

Now I am starting to sound nationalistic and I am not in the least. I just have an adverse reaction to misinformation. There isn't much of a nationalistic movement in Australia, though some are trying (including some in our government) to foment this. I think it's dangerous.

Great Teapot,

One left (an artist) because he felt he could go no further here, for want of stultifying beauracracy. He is older than I am and had spent 32 years in Australia. Some of his problem was that he was a bit pushy and got up some noses. Terrific artist though, I have inherited quote a bit of his work. He did work up a dislike.

Another left because she is a TESL teacher and wanted to work in Asia teaching English. She left for opportunity and her desires to teach elsewhere.

The third left to go to California for marine biological research. You'd think that with the largest coral reefs in the world that funding would be more available for research. However, competition is very, very tough. He left for opportunity as well.

So it wasn't all dislike as such. All Aussie ex-pats will say the it is a great place to live. It is. So where the bloody hell are you? That ad has been taken off the market now hasn't it? Was it the UK that got its knickers in a knot about 'bloody'? I seem to recall that it was.

Rtambree - what outer 'burb did you live in and for how long? I fear it must have been the western suburbs. I don't like suburbs. I feel that if you are going to live in a city, then right in the middle in old, disused warehouses is the best.

Anyway….
Cheers
V

745. Is God poison?

Comment #31218 by Veronique on April 11, 2007 at 3:00 pm

Helian,

On the thread concerning Ann Coulter, you'll find a post that lists one of her rabid quotes.

I first came across this woman because I put American Taliban in the search box in alltheweb. I can't recall where I first heard the phrase. The list showed 8,590,000 entries. The first one, the one that listed quotes from Coulter, Falwell, Savage, both Bush snr and jnr and a couple of dozen others whose names I have forgotten, has been pulled due to its popularity!!

There is a lot of criticism of the Bush Administration outside America. There is also a lot of criticism with regard to Blair and Howard (here in Australia, it's very vocal). These criticisms are not usually ad hominem attacks. There appears to me to be a perception that the rad.right is on a concerted campaign to change the way our countries are governed.

I doubt that it implies a knee-jerk hatred of America, the UK or Australia per se.

Criticism is an essential part of what we call modern democracies. The frustration is that current governments appear to be taking no notice whatsoever of the constituents' opinions.

This has the tendency for blanket disapproval of a particular country by some critics.

I have my own views on American culture and it is not a country I have much desire to visit. The Bush Administration is bringing America into so much disregard globally, that feelings spill over into what I think you are calling hatred.

Like Logicel, I disapprove of what is happening in Australia as she does about what is/has been happening in America; unlike her, I am still here. I don't think it is as bad here as it is in America. That isn't to say that it can't get worse. Three of my friends have left Australia for good in the past 1½ years and settled in Europe. Their criticisms and comments, while based on what our Government is doing, were also liberally laced with scathing dislike of the Australia they were seeing (obviously somewhat subjective). It doesn't invalidate their decisions to leave.

People are perfectly able to make decisions on their own recognisance. Most decisions and/or judgements have an emotional basis to them. If the criticisms take on a composite emotional flavour, then so be it.

Don't be too uncompromising in your assessments of people's arguments and criticisms. They are, after all, human.

Cheers
V

746. Religious bias colors doctors' views: survey

Comment #31084 by Veronique on April 10, 2007 at 11:22 pm

Yorker, I know I had the devil's own job trying to secure a tubal ligation just before I was 30. I'd had two sons and didn't want anymore. I know I have said somewhere on this site that while I was pregnant with my second son, I was reading Koestler's Ghost in the Machine. The end of his book has a lot to do with global overpopulation and its exponential rise. That was in 1970. The book itself was written in 1967. (Haven't come far have we?)

The desire video in the article list here was interesting in terms of sussing out potential mates because this was an argument used by the first 5 doctors in order to deny me. I was told by them that I was too young, what would happen if I met a bloke, fell in love and wanted more children, it was not reversible etc etc.

I told them that this was precisely why I wanted a TL to forestall that procreative urge within a relationship. The 6th doctor listened to my spiel and, by the time I visited him, I had put together quite a good, cogent, unanswerable argument. I think he thought I was nuts anyway (I was pretty overbearing by this stage and cross that I had to rely on the goodwill and commonsense of someone in a position to enable this procedure) but he couldn't argue the exponential growth rate in global population and finally gave in.

I should mention that the father of my second child was dead against the idea because, he said he might want more children. Well, he hadn't paid for his ticket to see the movie the first time round, why would he pay this time, I asked. He fell silent, looked after the two boys overnight and I went home the next day, safe and secure with my TL.

The difficulty in telling a doctor what you want as against what they think you should do is frustrating. Possibly more so if you are a woman. In the 70s there weren't many female medicos. All 6 I visited were males.

I suspect it would be just as hard for a young woman today. There are however, more female doctors: that helps.

Phaderus, how old were you at the time? And did your doctor even mention it to the catholic hospital?

There is a 60s something woman in Australia who has a tattoo on her chest that reads:

Please do not resuscitate. I am a member of VES NSW.

The Voluntary Euthanasia Society is growing in membership around Australia in an effort to make our legislators create a law. We did have passed by the Northern Territory and it was used once. Then our Federal Liberal Parliamentary Party rexcinded it because territories, in Australia don't have the same status as states (the Feds would not be able to overturn a state legislation).Several private members have introduced such a bill, never to be passed. Polls show that some 75% to 80% of those polled want a law that allows euthanasia.

Good luck with your closest hospital. Make a living will, lodge copies with your doctor, family, lawyer, anyone you can think of.

Cheers
V

747. Is God poison?

Comment #31051 by Veronique on April 10, 2007 at 7:43 pm

Logicel

This came through on Alternet to my email yesterday. You and I both feel that nothing is being done about the drastic and increasing global population. It is the single, largest problem the world has. Tie it with nationalism, as here in Australia and France, give women money to have more than two children and the problem exacerbates terribly.

http://www.alternet.org/stories/50216/

I don't know whether you have seen this article. If you have, please accept my apologies.

V

748. The Coulter Hoax: How Ann Coulter Exposed the Intelligent Design Movement

Comment #30799 by Veronique on April 9, 2007 at 10:05 pm

Windweaver,

What a lovely selection of quotes from the hateful Coulter. Thank you so much for them.

It took me a while to realise that Olofsson was taking the piss. Nicely done, I kept smiling throughout his review of her book.

When I first came across Coulter on an American Taliban website, I couldn't believe the quote the site appended to her. So, I checked her out on youtube and listened to her ravings and vitriol (I consumed quite a lot of wine that evening: I had to to get through the videos).

While I wouldn't bother reading her diatribe in Godless, I take my hat off to Olofsson for doing so and having such a way of dealing with it.

Sigh, if only I could keep my cool and respond in parody, as he does, In fact if we all could, it would have a wonderfully salutary effect.

Except for the thick-as-2-planks people who understand little in their own right let alone anyone else's rabid right.

I sometimes wonder how long the Republicans will allow her to be their public voice on talk back TV and radio. Ahem, not good PR to have a screaming banshee spewing vituperative bile in public spaces. However, they may see her as strong, committed and pushing their cause to the elections next year.

Makes you think, doesn't it. Well done Olofsson! Thoroughly enjoyable review.

Cheers
V

749. Even non-believers must recognise the moral necessity of Christianity

Comment #30770 by Veronique on April 9, 2007 at 6:19 pm

Yorker

I have to say that jumping out of perfectly serviceable aircraft is hair raising fun.

I used to be the finance administrator for a dropzone and watched literally hundreds of people go up with tandem masters over the 3 years I was there.

It may well be the relief of making it safely back to solid ground and/or having faced one mighty big fear, but with the exception of one or two (that was all), everyone of the tandem passengers whooped and hollered and wanted to go up again as soon as they had landed back on mother earth.

I, due to my proximity to the plane and equipment, have jumped as well. It really is exhilarating, heart thumping stuff. A similar exhilaration to kyaking through rapids, another of my more youthful joys.

Ah well, I am much more pedestrian these days. The memories....

Cheers
V

750. Even non-believers must recognise the moral necessity of Christianity

Comment #30752 by Veronique on April 9, 2007 at 4:56 pm

Logicel, Briancoughlan and Yorker

These came through on ICH this morning in my emails.

"Patriotism is a religion, the egg from which wars are hatched.": Guy de Maupassant

"Seas of blood have been shed for the sake of patriotism. One would expect the harm and irrationality of patriotism to be self-evident to everyone. But the surprising fact is that cultured and learned [socially conditioned and indoctrinated] people not only do not notice the harm and stupidity of patriotism, they resist every unveiling of it with the greatest obstinacy and passion (with no rational grounds), and continue to praise it as beneficent and elevating." -Leo Tolstoy

"Blind patriotism has been kept intact by rewriting history to provide people with moral consolation and a psychological basis for denial." -William H. Boyer

"Politically speaking, tribal nationalism [patriotism] always insists that its own people are surrounded by 'a world of enemies' - 'one against all' - and that a fundamental difference exists between this people and all others. It claims its people to be unique, individual, incompatible with all others, and denies theoretically the very possibility of a common mankind long before it is used to destroy the humanity of man." -Hannah Arendt, The Origins Of Totalitarianism p.227

Says it all doesn't it?

Cheers
V