801. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #170867 by Tyler Durden on April 28, 2008 at 5:39 am

Comment #170864 by shinewithjoy

How is it that rates of depression, violent crimes, teenage pregnancies, and STI/STD's have risen dramatically since prayer was taken out of school?

shinewithjoy, do you have any evidence for this assertion, or is it just your opinion?

Where did you source this information from? Can you provide the website(s) or books so I can investigate this further.

Thanks.

802. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #170862 by Tyler Durden on April 28, 2008 at 5:33 am

el Heffe,

The real irony here is that you think you're actually making a cogent argument, when in fact you're quite insane!

Can you explain to me who exactly is the "intelligence" behind "Intelligent Design"?? Thanks.

803. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #170849 by Tyler Durden on April 28, 2008 at 5:13 am

Comment #170843 by riandouglas

Shouldn't have gone with the budget ticket, but you know Yahweh!

Are we to assume that Jesus could allegedly walk on water, rise from the dead, and ascend bodily into heaven - but couldn't teleport around the Earth to announce his existence?!?!

Superman did it in "Supeman II" - teleport, not ascend bodily into heaven :)

804. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #170839 by Tyler Durden on April 28, 2008 at 5:02 am

Comment #170833 by ForestMist

And why did Jesus only appear in Israel and not turn up in other continents to make sure that everyone knew about him at the same time?

Becuase he had a lousy agent and terrible PR manager? :)

805. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170825 by Tyler Durden on April 28, 2008 at 4:16 am

Adam,

Many thanks for your apology. Stick around, you'll find some of the topics discussed here very interesting. If in doubt, ask questions, there are more than enough people here eager and able to help with any of your enquiries.

On a side note, can you have a quick word with our friend Remnant :-)

806. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #170805 by Tyler Durden on April 28, 2008 at 3:24 am

Comment #170479 by melissajoy1234

Hi Melissa,

Welcome to RD.net

If I can make just a few comments on your post:

I do have one piece, you may take it or leave it. I was blessed enough to be raised in a Christian home with a long Christian heritage. However, my grandfather was not a Christian in his early years. He was a good man, served his country in the US Army during World War II earning a purple heart, but didn't come to faith in Jesus until his thirties. A man he worked with died suddenly, and it was at his funeral that my Pappaw realized something in his life was missing, and that his last day could be any minute. He heard the message of Jesus at this man's funeral, and right then and there accepted it.

Argumentum ad misercordiam - an appeal to pity or emotions: This is a touching story, but does not count as evidence as would be used in the scientific method.

He no longer was an alcoholic

Sorry, Melissa, as the child of alcoholic parents, I can tell you that alcoholics remain alcoholics for all their lives, it's a disease, there is no known cure. While your Pappaw may have been a recovering alcoholic i.e. he never drank again, he most certainly was still an alcoholic.

And again, this is not evidence for your god, merely Wishful Thinking on your part. My mother kicked the habit for 3 years before it finally killed her.

Would you take my word for it, based only on my personal experience, that your god does not exist, due to the fact that my mother died due to liver cancer? Well? I don't think so. This is why arguments from pity and personal experience are fallacious, and inherently weak. You'll need to do better than that to convince me, and many other here.

and he started going to church and being kinder to his family. He raised four children and had nine grandchildren.

I know lots of people who do exactly the same but who do not believe, or feel the need to believe in your god. Melissa, your confusing emotions with evidence.

The proof I have of God's existance is this: on my Pappaw's last day on this earth, he (whose brain was eaten up by Alzheimers and who the day before didn't even know who or what God was), was able to actually speak normally (which he hadn't done in months) and could NOT stop smiling. He told us what he was seeing: crystal clear water "look at that water! Beautiful water!" he kept saying, he saw other Christian people in his life "There's Douglas!"
he said, who was his brother, and "Cecil!" who was his father-in-law, he saw apple orchards, and described everything, begging for us to come with him. That moment in time, that one day, was a gift from God to our family.

This is not evidence, this is Wishful Thinking on your part. You have no way of corroborating this account with actual facts. Your Pappaw could have easily been hallucinating all of this. Was he on any medication at the time?

God allowed us to see a glimpse of heaven from our Pappaw's eyes. That was all the physical proof I will ever need.

Do you claim to know the mind of your god? How do you know this? Seriously, evidence for this... or is this just your assumptions showing??

Stryer: You asked me to prove God's existance without quoting my "Biblical fairytale." I think the paragraph above was a good effort. It's enough for me, at least.

Argument from Personal Bias. This is not evidence as it cannot be independently corroborated.

We are ALL guilty. All of us. None of us are innocent.

Melissa, being only 38 years of age, I wasn't actually around 3,000 years ago, or whenever the "Adam and Eve" fairy tale was supposed to have taken place, therefore I am guilty of nothing.

Sin entered the world through the deception of Satan to Adam and Eve. I don't resent Adam or Eve for that. They are human, just like us.

"Adam and Eve" is a fairy tale, taking the discussion of morality any further based on that is pointless. Next!

RolandF: Evolution is hard for me to believe, just as the Bible is hard for you to believe. We'll just leave it at that.

False Dichotomy - a misleading account of the available alternatives. Melissa, perhaps you don't understand evolution? It's a process, it's how science explains the origin of the species here on Earth. It's not about "belief" as you seen to think, but facts. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming, check out your local library, bookstore, or some of the web links here on RD.net

Or if you have questions about evolution, feel free to ask anyone here. There is nothing wrong with not knowing something, however, compounding that ignorance by not accepting scientific evidence and facts for evolution (or a round Earth, or gravity etc) is somthing else. "The beginning of wisdom is to admit your ignorance" Socrates

Why did an all-powerful and all-knowing God do that? I don't know, but I accept it with an open and glad heart. I thank Him for loving and caring about me that much. And this one DOES deliver. . .eternal life with God, your creator, in paradise forever. Is forever boring? I've heard people say that. . .eternity would be boring. YOU WILL BE IN THE VERY PRESENCE OF GOD! Nothing boring whatsoever about that!

Another appeal to emotion, no facts, no evidence, just your opinion. Melissa, I don't really care what is "in your heart", or what you "feel is true", what I am interested in is what you can prove, thru evidentiary means, testable, predictable, quantifiable. Warm, fuzzy feelings are not evidence.

Everyone will be given the opportunity to accept or reject. Therein lies the free will of man. God knows who will and who won't reject Him beforehand, yes. But we don't. Does that mean we are chosen? Maybe. Maybe not. That's something only God knows. And I trust that He's just in ALL that He does.

Melissa, I've read your bible (I was brought up Catholic before finally seeing sense) and studied it thoroughly, still do to this day, so let me say this: if your god exists, ands is the same god from the bible, that same sick, twisted, murdering, homicidal maniac - then I reject him. Completely. That is my free will. If your god cannot accept that, then he can move on and leave me alone!

807. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168901 by Tyler Durden on April 25, 2008 at 12:45 pm

Dr. Benway,

It's also the Cognitive dissonance that theists show on a daily, no, hourly rate, that really gets to me. No matter what you can show them through evidentiary means, they will somehow manage to twist it around, or simply ignore it, in order to hang onto their beliefs.

All the while keeping their head in the sand, or in the clouds.

808. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168886 by Tyler Durden on April 25, 2008 at 12:30 pm

Shaden,

Well, I suppose one of us was imaginary, but it certainly wasn't me!! Might've been Helena Bonham Carter :-)

809. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168854 by Tyler Durden on April 25, 2008 at 12:03 pm

Remnant,

A quick question on homosexuality.

According to Leviticus: I should kill my room-mate who's gay

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13)

as well as his friend, who both stayed over at last night and slept together. In the same room. In the same bed.

When I go home tonight, should I kill them both then or wait for your god to do it.

Yours,
Confused in Dublin.

810. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168843 by Tyler Durden on April 25, 2008 at 11:51 am

Remnant,

Is that your cake I smell burning? :-)

On a more serious note: how old do you consider the Earth to be:

A) 6,000 years old
B) 4.6 billion years old
C) Somewhere in-between

811. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #168006 by Tyler Durden on April 24, 2008 at 1:17 pm

Diacanu,

Are you saying that TheTruthID actually believes in evolution?

Cool, we can all go home :)

Maybe it's just RD playing games with us?

812. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #167989 by Tyler Durden on April 24, 2008 at 1:09 pm

I get the distinct impression that TheTruthID wasn't accidentally dropped on his head as a baby - he was actually thrown!!

813. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #167972 by Tyler Durden on April 24, 2008 at 1:01 pm

Al,

Forget Jesus as a role model, I'm taking Batman as mine.

Orphaned as a youngster and look what he made of himself, that's who we should be teaching kids to be like. That Jesus dude made a lot of speeches, went walking a lot, and made some fish sandwiches, and was a fecking zombie - whereas Batman has a cape, ran a business, and had lots of cool gadgets!!!

Not to mention the fact that Batman has had far more decent movies made about him, whereas Jesus can't seem to catch a break at the multiplex. I blame Mel :)

(With due respect to comedian Dylan Moran :)

814. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #167949 by Tyler Durden on April 24, 2008 at 12:42 pm

Comment #167930 by gr8hands

Tyler Durden, it appears that your prayers to Qwertyaszx the Almighty were answered, and your prayers to jehovah were ignored. What ritual of praise to Qwertyaszx will you do now?

I will drink a beer in honour of his mighty power, as is the custom in these parts. All hail Qwertyaszx the Almighty :)

Always knew that Jehovah guy never existed.

815. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #167869 by Tyler Durden on April 24, 2008 at 11:45 am

Comment #167825 by Remnant on April 24, 2008 at 11:08 am

Well kids, It has been a blast. Gotta go for now.
See you later.

Remnant,

I will now pray to my God, Qwertyaszx the Almighty, that you return safely to this forum.

I will also pray to this God, Jehovah/Yahweh, that you seem to think exists, asking that you never return to this forum.

Let's see which God answers my prayers...

816. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #167599 by Tyler Durden on April 24, 2008 at 7:46 am

seeker_of_truth,

Anyway, of all people, I find the arguments of Chuck Norris interesting in this regard as he reviews the movie, Expelled

Not that I take any notice of the "career" of Chuck Norris, but has he suddenly started teaching constitutional law at Harvard, or reviewing movies for the New York Times?

If he hasn't, why in the world would his opinion on teaching religion in the classroom be of any interest to you? Or is it just because you agree with his opinion?

As for the Tenth Amendment: didn't the Dover trial blow the idea of ID in the classroom out of the water?

817. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #167593 by Tyler Durden on April 24, 2008 at 7:28 am

Comment #167576 by Remnant

God created man to have fellowship with Him.

Awww, is your God lonely? Or just bored?

Got any evidence of this, or do you claim to actually know the mind of your God??

How do you know your God did not "create" humans as some kind of sick experiment? We could all be just ants in his giant ant-farm.

You're simply using Wishful Thinking to make your "case". You don't have any evidence for what you say or posit, nada, zip, zero, so you simply type what you hope is true.

Are you 12 years of age?

818. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #167581 by Tyler Durden on April 24, 2008 at 7:19 am

Comment #167556 by seeker_of_truth:

Anyway, of all people, I find the arguments of Chuck Norris interesting in this regard as he reviews the movie, Expelled

With regard to Chuck Norris (wow, never thought I'd be typing that sentence on this particular website, but I digress...)

He uses the logical fallacy of "Begging the question" in his quote:

If America's Founding Fathers espoused openness to religion, creationism and the Bible being taught in schools, then it beckons the question, Why don't we?

Although he phrases it as "beckons the question" which I assume is his "down home" country style of "begs the question".

By commiting this fallacy, his "argument" falls apart. He simply wants "creationism and the Bible being taught in schools" and uses the Founding Fathers to make his point. But that wasn't their point - so he also makes another fallacy, that of ignoratio elenchi, or Missing the Point.

EDIT: I see epeeist got there before me :)

819. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #167484 by Tyler Durden on April 24, 2008 at 5:14 am

*peeks out from behind the sofa*

Is he still here?
Answered any questions yet?

:-)

820. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #166856 by Tyler Durden on April 23, 2008 at 1:06 pm

Comment #166839 by TheTruthID

Digital,

Do you really think your analogies make sense in comparison to beginning of life and evolution?

Ah, so you do see the difference between the "beginning of life and evolution".

Finally, a lightbulb moment. Eureka! Insight at last. Perhaps we can all go home now :)

821. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #166848 by Tyler Durden on April 23, 2008 at 1:01 pm

Comment #166797 by TheTruthID

Tyler Durden,

More gibberish. These concepts might be different but are at the utmost relevant to each other. How life began is the ultimate question. Stir things up? Please. That's the biggest problem with evolution THEORY, the fact that how it all began is so relevant that evolutionists need to ignore it to remain sane and try to sound intelligent.

Oh boy!

Just because you don't understand something does not make it "gibberish". That's the Argument from Personal Incredulity.

You're confusing two different concepts, evolution and abiogenesis, I merely pointed this out to you. Your ignorance on the matter is your problem, not mine.

Try reading up on the subjects at hand before posting.

822. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166808 by Tyler Durden on April 23, 2008 at 12:42 pm

Comment #166798 by Remnant

God created man in His image.

Evidence, please.

Does your God also have an appendix he doesn't need, or a blind spot in his eye? Why?

Are you saying your God has a tailbone?

Or are you being metaphorical??

823. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166792 by Tyler Durden on April 23, 2008 at 12:34 pm

MPhil,

No fair, you used logic and rationality - Remnant will never understand all that :-)

824. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #166782 by Tyler Durden on April 23, 2008 at 12:28 pm

Comment #166765 by TheTruthID

Evolutionists are calling into question the education and professions of many in return. And you consider your theory serious. You can't even explain how life originated in the first place.

TheTruthID,

Perhaps you are not aware of what Darwinian evolution by Natural Selection actually posits? Do you?

You are confusing Darwinian evolution by Natural Selection i.e.the origin of species, with Abiogenesis i.e.how life first began on Earth.

These two concepts are completely different. Darwin was not concerned with how life first emerged on the Earth approx 3.6 billion years ago, but how it had evolved once it had begun.

Do you see the difference? Are you looking to learn the difference? Or are you just looking to stir things up here?

825. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166710 by Tyler Durden on April 23, 2008 at 11:47 am

Comment #166694 by Remnant

With a creator God, your slime plus time theory of evolution leaves you captive to chemical responses that have "evolved". You are a slave to chemical reactions. You have no free will to make any choices. You become a robot.

Not so. Everytime humans use contraception, we are defying these "chemical reactions" that would have us reproduce.

The ironic thing is that without God, there is no free will.

Huh? I live my life without your "god", yet I have free will. Wrong again.

And Remnant, can you please answer my quesion with regard to your appendix, eye, and tailbone? Why are you avoiding the issue? Please explain why you have them and their uses.

Thanks.

826. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166580 by Tyler Durden on April 23, 2008 at 10:12 am

Remnant,

As you are still here, can you please answer my questions with regard to your appendix, eye, and tailbone?

Why do you have them? What are their uses? Why did your God design you that way?

Thanks.

827. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #166568 by Tyler Durden on April 23, 2008 at 10:01 am

Comment #166560 by TheTruthID

The only conclusion science evidence draws is a designed universe and life.

This is simply your assumption. And it's incorrrect.

The actual scientific evidence says different. What evidence are you refering to? Please quote examples... and sources.

828. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #166554 by Tyler Durden on April 23, 2008 at 9:52 am

Comment #166543 by TheTruthID

I am stating the fact of a supernatural designer of life derived from the scientific evidence.

And this evidence would be...?

Sources, please.

829. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166478 by Tyler Durden on April 23, 2008 at 9:08 am

Comment #166450 by Remnant

The fall of man and the resulting deterioration of DNA

Not sure you've answered my question. The so-called "fall of man" is a fairy tale, but I'm actually looking for scientific, logical answers.

Please explain what you mean by "deterioration of DNA". Is that a technical term? Which chromosomes do you refer to? Are you refering to base modifications or actual mutations in the chromatin structure itself?

I'll ask again:

Do you believe that your God designed your appendix, the blind spot in your eye, and your cocycx (tailbone)?

If so, why?

Why is your God punishing you for something that didn't happen, and even if it did, was before you were born and so beyond your control?

830. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166436 by Tyler Durden on April 23, 2008 at 8:45 am

Comment #166411 by Remnant

I feel that the holes, and they are numerous in this UNPROVEN THEORY, should be presented and discussed openly...

Hi Remnant,

Can you please point out, in your own words, some of these "holes" that exist in Darwinian evolution by Natural Selection.

If they are "numerous", can you list them for us?

I understand there are a multitude of websites out there that attempt to cover this (yet fail miserably), but I'm more interested in your findings.

Do you have any?

831. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #166426 by Tyler Durden on April 23, 2008 at 8:39 am

Comment #165986 by Remnant on April 22, 2008 at 4:37 pm

God loves you and wants you to use that brain He created you with.

Hi Remnant,

You believe your God created your brain? Did your God also create Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis, Corticobasal Degeneration, Progressive Multifocal Leukoencephalopathy, as well as cancer, tumours and cysts that can infect brain tissue?

Do you also believe that your God designed your appendix, the blind spot in your eye, and your cocycx (tailbone)?

If so, can you explain why your God would design your body with an appendix that actually serves no actual purpose, yet can kill you if it becomes infected.

If so, can you explain why your God would design an eye that interprets images it encounters upside-down, not right-side up.

If so, can you explain why your God would design your body to contain a tailbone that has no purpose whatsoever.

All of these examples can be easily explained through Darwinian evolution by Natural Selection, but make no sense whatsoever for an alleged omnipotent "designer".

Comments?

832. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #165455 by Tyler Durden on April 21, 2008 at 1:38 pm

Comment #165442 by TheTruthID

Why I accept ID. The science today has proved without a doubt the intricate and complexity of even the smallest cell(NANO science). If someone can show me how something simple can evolve into something complex, I'd be more than willing to listen.

TheTruthID, are you saying that because you don't understand Darwinian evolution by Natural Selection, that it could not happen, or ever have happened?

This is simply an Argument from Personal Incredulity. Are you actually that self-important to think that becusae you don't understand something, it cannot occur? Wow.

833. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #165424 by Tyler Durden on April 21, 2008 at 1:08 pm

Comment #165403 by TheTruthID:

I challenge you to show me one shred of scientific evidence that proves MACRO-evolution?

TheTruthID, welcome to RD.net

Before I answer your query, can I first ask if the evidence I present will in any way, shape or form actually change your mind to the fact of evolution?

In other words: are you looking for evidence in order to learn, change your current position, or become more knowledgeable on the subject of evolution - or are you simply ignorant of the facts with regard to evolution and so wasting my/our time?

834. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #165376 by Tyler Durden on April 21, 2008 at 12:15 pm

"Expelled" currently has a 3.6 out of 10 rating over on IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1091617/

22% giving it a 10/10
64% giving it a 1/10

Their "Bottom 100" movies of all time range from 1.2 to 2.7, so you get the picture :)

Hopefully that's the last we'll ever hear of that pile of garbage!

835. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163889 by Tyler Durden on April 19, 2008 at 8:51 am

Billy,

He pulled a "number 10". Quele suprise! :)

836. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163885 by Tyler Durden on April 19, 2008 at 8:48 am

Comment #163873 by pacman71192

I can't see God, I can only see the effects of Him.

Examples please.

Perhaps you don't understand how the natural world works, hence you posit "God" as the answer.

Is a tsunami that kills 240,000 people an "effect" of this "God"??

Any chance you could answer my questions from before? What purpose does your appendix play in your body? The blind spot in your eye? Your tailbone?

837. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163866 by Tyler Durden on April 19, 2008 at 8:02 am

Comment #163861 by Frankus1122

Give us something new that absolutely cannot be answered by Darwinian Evolutionists. If Intelligent Design is true then you should have no problem providing evidence of its truth. That makes sense doesn't it?

Your logic is sound, unfortunately theists/creationists/IDiots are far from logical in their "arguments".

This is the "grey area" in which we find ourselves when we ask for evidence for God/ID/angels etc. They are happy enough to live without it - we most certainly aren't.

838. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163852 by Tyler Durden on April 19, 2008 at 7:24 am

Comment #163849 by Frankus1122

What would it take to change the mind (sic) of such a poster?

I think it is clear that they haven't a leg to stand on but how does one go about getting this point across? Because so far what we have been doing has not been working as far as I can tell.

Good point, I've yet to see it here from any theist/creationist/IDiot. But then, they are dogmatic, fundamentalist in their day-to-day thinking - why would the evidence we present to them change their repective "minds" one iota.

I am reminded of Einstein's definition of insanity with regard to our approach to theists and evidence here:
"Repeating the same behaviour over and over expecting a different result."

Oh, well. We can but try :)

839. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163833 by Tyler Durden on April 19, 2008 at 6:07 am

Comment #163825 by Remnant

The points made are about as devoid of meaningful substance as the fossil record is of transitional fossils.

So you've never read anything on Tiktallik or Archaeopteryx:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiktallik

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeopteryx

What about Paleothyris, Morganucodon, Mammalodon or even Australopithecus?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

http://www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/Units/140Sarcopterygii/140.000.html

840. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163823 by Tyler Durden on April 19, 2008 at 5:53 am

Comment #163821 by pacman71192

All that is within a living cell could not be placed ther by chance.

Who said it was chance?

841. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163822 by Tyler Durden on April 19, 2008 at 5:50 am

could you please say how the design is implemented.

Steve,

That's easy peasy: goddidit :)

842. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163818 by Tyler Durden on April 19, 2008 at 5:37 am

pacman71192,

And what was your appendix "designed" for? What purpose does it hold for you today?

Why does your eye have a blind spot?

Why would you, as a "designed" human being, have a remnant of a tailbone?

843. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163815 by Tyler Durden on April 19, 2008 at 5:27 am

pacman71192,

If you don't accept Darwinian evolution by Natural Selection, can you please explain the purpose of:

1. Your appendix
2. The blind spot in your eye(s)
3. Your cocycx (tailbone)

All of these are easily explained through Darwinian evolution. Do you actually think these 3 examples were somehow "designed"??

844. Victims: Pope Benedict Protects Accused Pedophile Bishops

Comment #162286 by Tyler Durden on April 16, 2008 at 1:55 pm

Comment #161537 by Animavore

Now I have to go to my nieces communion and try to smile through grit teeth and express how happy I am for her.

Animavore, while it's not my place to tell you how to live your life, can I suggest if you as an individual do not wish to take part in a particular ceremony, you don't actually have to.

I'm not advocating you "take a stand" just to make a point, but if you don't want to go, don't go. It's only a communion, not like you're snubbing her wedding or funeral because of religious reasons.

A few weeks back, I attended the funeral mass of a work colleague's father, who had died quiet suddenly. I went out of respect for my work colleague. Sitting in the church listening to the ridiculous mumbo-jumbo being spouted by the priest was bad enough, but to see grown adults on their knees praying nearly had me at my wits end. I'm so glad it was a short service, my patience was wearing very thin.

In a few weeks time, a good mate of mine will become a dad for the first time, he's very religious so I'm expecting an invite to the christening, which I will decline, of course, for so many reasons.

If we keep attending these archaic rituals it gives them more power than they deserve. Just say no :)

845. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #161412 by Tyler Durden on April 15, 2008 at 9:18 am

Comment #161409 by Kardashovel:

But the only other explanation that makes any sense is that this voice was generate by my own mind.

By jove, I think he's got it :)

Oh, but then Kardashovel doesn't read my posts.

846. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #161375 by Tyler Durden on April 15, 2008 at 8:18 am

1485. Comment #161371 by Kardashovel

But it was pretty clear to me that He was not me, even though he spoke in my inner voice.

Oh, good grief! Somebody make it stop, please.

847. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #161369 by Tyler Durden on April 15, 2008 at 8:12 am

Kardashovel,

In the words of Christopher Hitchens: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

Unless you have actual evidence that these voices were God (i.e. your version of God), I simply say that they were not. The burden of proof is on you to show they were.

Explanations for "voices in your head" are numerous from a psychological point of view: stress, cognitive, neurological, repression, the unconscious, the ego, the ID, latent memories, manifest content of the brain, neurons mis-firing.

Unless you can rule out all of these issues (and much, much more) by means of an MRI for PET scan, you can't go straight to the "God" cause for these voices.

I put it to you that you simply want it to be God. Wishful Thinking on your part, nothing more. Unless you have evidence.

848. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #161336 by Tyler Durden on April 15, 2008 at 7:22 am

Comment #161329 by Kardashovel:

Tyler, do you think that Steve, Bonzai, Dr. Benway, etc. are idiots, as you apparently think about me?

Of course not. They are very intelligent, clear-thinking, logical individuals. I should know, I've read enough of their posts here.

"God needs us."

There you go making my point again.

849. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #161325 by Tyler Durden on April 15, 2008 at 7:04 am

Comment #161308 by Kardashovel:

But here's the thing... why would an alien species care about the mundane details of my business?

And why would the alleged "creator of the known universe" care about the mundane details of your business???

850. Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss

Comment #161243 by Tyler Durden on April 15, 2008 at 4:09 am

Comment #161225 by Artful_Dodger:

God, being outside the universe (as the originator of the universe must be) does not need to feature in any scheme depicting the universe.

Comment #161234 by Steve Zara:

It's a bit hard to know how you can know about him then.

Steve, it's at this point that theists usually start talking about warm, fuzzy feelings, the fact that they "just know", or about their "inner voice". Pah, such hogwash.