851. The moment a teenage girl was stoned to death for loving the wrong boy

Comment #37869 by Logicel on May 6, 2007 at 4:15 am

When I was a very young woman, with that strange brew of denial--idealism, immaturity, and self-centeredness--coursing through my veins, I had vehemently stated that I could never act in a 'non or in-human' way. NEVER. A wonderful atheist, a few years older than I, with whom I was living, said, "BOLLOCKS", and went on to assist, by discussing the reality of what being human means, in my maturing somewhat.

You can play semantics all you desire, but these depraved humans are humans, their depravity do not make them any less human. Not considering them human, will only retard our progress in learning how to understand, prevent, and control the awful depravities we are all capable of committing. We need to study our own kind to improve our own kind--as a personal God is a delusion, and it just us humans on this planet.

852. The moment a teenage girl was stoned to death for loving the wrong boy

Comment #37863 by Logicel on May 6, 2007 at 4:00 am

Way back last November, some of us had discussed how to deal with trolls who were causing problems in clogging up discussions by sapping the positive energy of sincere posters who wanted to learn and improve their debating skills. Site adm then came up with the creation of a separate troll thread. Allowing posters to assist monitoring the site and not banning trolls completely--they get their own thread after all--is a positive approach. However, I suggest that site adm. allow posters the chance to give our reasons why we are flagging another as a troll.

I have never flagged Robertson as a troll, though I do regard when he writes profusely, saying the same thing over and over again, he approaches troll-like behavior. I have flagged two atheists, one for being offensive and another for being a troll. And I have flagged some rabid theists as trolls also.

Robertson's popping up with new user IDs into the main discussion thread after being relegated as a troll is becoming absurd. However, his stubbornness, if it could only be channeled into positive results, is admirable.

853. Interview with Pierre Rehov

Comment #37855 by Logicel on May 6, 2007 at 3:13 am

Sounds like Rehov thinks that extreme practitioners of religious superstitions are the problem, and not the 'benign' moderate practitioners. Yet, it is the emphasis on accepting faith-based ideology without any evidence that is the problem, regardless if it is secularly or religiously based. This regarding of groundless faith as being good is the nasty little nugget of unrelenting ignorance that is preventing humanity from advancing to a more rational stage of being.

854. The moment a teenage girl was stoned to death for loving the wrong boy

Comment #37687 by Logicel on May 5, 2007 at 1:14 pm

Like others, I chose not to watch the video. As Amnesty International stated, these criminals need to be caught, tried, and punished.

To take a young woman's life and in such a brutal, sustained manner of stoning, must require a complete lack of awareness/consciousness in order to complete this atrocity on your own kin.

Think of the terror that must be felt by the close-by inhabitants to ensure their continuing compliance in the blind faith of tribal/religious beliefs. Think of the blood that will beget more blood which is the way of warlike, primitive, patriarchal, tribal cultures made even more divisive by the practice of religious superstitions. The viciousness of this circle of depraved, non-thinking acts will be very challenging to break, but it will be broken.

855. Martin Amis reviews The Islamist: Why I Joined Radical Islam in Britain, What I Saw Inside and Why I Left by Ed Hussain

Comment #37667 by Logicel on May 5, 2007 at 12:41 pm

Insightful and astute article.

Someday, weefree will break his teeth on that old bone of atheism being a fanatical belief system on which he obsessively gnaws.


Seriously, I am in awe at your ability to warp reality.


Robert Maynard, I too am flabbergasted at what weefree does--been reading his posts for months now and his consistency in being blinkered saddens me.

856. The kiss that brought immorality debate to a head

Comment #37645 by Logicel on May 5, 2007 at 12:18 pm

Well done, RD!

857. Lou Dobbs Interviews Christopher Hitchens

Comment #37628 by Logicel on May 5, 2007 at 11:49 am

I was impressed and cheered that Dobbs enabled Hitchens to emphasize how religion is brutally dismissive of human sexuality via the list of virgin births and the mention of genital mutilation of both sexes.

Religion's stranglehold prevents proper sexual education, birth control/family planning, AIDS prevention, acceptance of gay relationships/marriages, and last but not least, the enjoyment of sex for its natural pleasures, all which causes so many to suffer needlessly.

858. Author of the Year Ad

Comment #37566 by Logicel on May 5, 2007 at 1:39 am

phasmagigas wrote, ...in the USA I just cringe when i see promotion photos of people (esp. real estate sellers), they tend to be really really awful.
________

They look like friendly ghouls!

I did think the photo TIME chose was too stern, but this one is fine which shows RDs thoughtfulness and sincerity with that lovely upward gazing towards the enlightening power of rationality.

859. Bonobos and chimps 'speak' with gestures

Comment #37308 by Logicel on May 4, 2007 at 4:04 am

I prefer multimodal communication when in person--I feel at ease with the Italians, but a little uncomfortable with the English and the Scandinavians.

I remember seeing an educational film in a Psychology class decades ago which shown a person from a 'multimodal' culture getting increasingly frustrated at the 'cool' communication style of a person from a less expressive culture. The guy from the 'hot' culture finally climbed over the 'cool' person's desk to get closer, flailing his arms in a friendly fashion all the while! The 'cool' guy barricaded himself behind the desk and was looking longingly at a nearby window to make his desperate escape. Still makes me laugh.

860. Your favorite book in the last 25 years?

Comment #37304 by Logicel on May 4, 2007 at 3:31 am

Ah, that is why some poster here saw the discount on TGD--she/he was worried that it might not mean something positive!

My fave? The Da Vinci Code. ONLY KIDDING!

It's a nice promotion from Waterstones, and I will try to take advantage of it.

My faves from the ones which I have read:

The Unbearable Lightness of Being
Love in the Time of Cholera
Angela's Ashes
The English Patient
Trainspotting
The Bonfire of the Vanities
The Remains of the Day
The Silence of the Lambs
Cold Mountain
LA Confidential
TGD
Notes from a Small Island
The Handmaid's Tale

861. Christians and Atheists to Debate Existence of God in First-Ever 'NIGHTLINE FACE OFF'

Comment #37296 by Logicel on May 4, 2007 at 2:54 am

Riley, I forwarded your excellent comment #37212, including your user ID, to the discussion forum at RRS on the upcoming debate with the 'Chiquita Boys' (thanks, bhyde for the coinage). Sapient reads that thread. I wanted to email it to him, but the guy gets too much email. Go figure.


http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/the_rational_response_squad/6334?page=3

862. How multiculturalism is betraying women

Comment #37000 by Logicel on May 3, 2007 at 5:19 am

I still remember vividly how it was during the 1950's and early 1960's for women in America. When women were beaten/raped, they were not believed, or they were made to feel that they caused the beating/rape. Perpetrators of incest were seldom jailed or even reprimanded. Male cops, and they were the only kind back then, would come when battered kids or women called for help, and they, how can I say, handled the situation with not much empathy. Male doctors, and the majority of doctors were male back then, would often treat rape victims with disdain. Women were often not encouraged to take science/math courses and therefore were not eligible for well paying jobs, resulting in women being forced to remain with cruel male husbands/lovers. Birth control/planning, sexual education, and abortion rights were either barely there or not there at all.

Down-beaten people often just take the injustice meted out to them in silence. It was a great achievement of Western civilization that many aspects which were considered normal for women in the 50s/60s are now considered less than satisfactory, intolerable, or criminal. Publicizing the double standard in which women of different cultures are treated from native-born women is necessary and will result in change.

863. In Ducks, War of the Sexes Plays Out in the Evolution of Genitalia

Comment #36990 by Logicel on May 3, 2007 at 4:22 am

CJ, hilarious post!

Dr. McCracken, who discovered the longest known bird phallus on an Argentine duck in 2001, is struck by the fact that it was a woman who discovered the complexity of female birds. "Maybe it's the male bias we all have," he said. "It's just been out there, waiting to be discovered."
________

Nice musing. I often muse of the potential discoveries that could be made by 50% of our species if they were allowed to be educated, literate, and in control of their own bodies. But then again, there are lots of kids, male and female, who are not allowed to be educated and embrace science.

864. When Seeing Is Disbelieving

Comment #36661 by Logicel on May 2, 2007 at 1:09 am

PKid wrote, how could one compete without a delusion about one's ability and to have an ability to concentrate that turns off the rest of the world?
________

Psychological studies done on top athletes show that their winning edge comes not from delusion but from solution-focused (focusing on what they do right and not wrong), intentional training resulting in implicit learning (intuition) and heightened awareness of their honed skills and experience.

Awareness is a tough game to do consistently. Perhaps we are hard wired for lapses of our awareness for survival purposes, but such an evolutionary advantage can cut into the quality of our lives by allowing us to be dull and drowsy. Biofeedback and mediation can increase our ability to maintain awareness. When aware, we then possess the 'will' to act.

865. 4 Sermon for Matins: 'Dawkins and The God Delusion'

Comment #36653 by Logicel on May 2, 2007 at 12:26 am

Bonzai wrote, God is only valid (in a vacuous sense)as a hypothesis as long as it is just a place holder for unknown causes and has absolutely no explanatory power. Religion can only "win",-- actually just not losing,-- in an intellectual debate by surrendering pre-emtively. This is the paradox.
_______

Except this approach is neither winning or even not losing--it is such absurd dragging of the intellectual feet that it is laughable.

Moderates are simply being stubborn. Their penchant and their familiarity with vacuous wording gives them a false sense of their power to persuade. The moderates' style of communication is as emotionally bankrupt as their so-called content or core beliefs. How bankrupt? As bankrupt as lying to themselves and to the people of whom they are supposedly in charge.

Again, I will have to say, that I regard moderates as being even more cunningly addictive--and the most difficult of addicts to rehabilitate are the ones who are the most cunning--in their clinging to religious superstitions than the fundamentalists. They have tailor made their particular style of addiction so nicely, that they have no intention or need of kicking the habit. They rationalize expertly therefore entertaining the feeble notion that they are being rational, cherry pick to their heart's content, and flirt with doubt to give a frisson of authenticity to their beliefs.

866. 4 Sermon for Matins: 'Dawkins and The God Delusion'

Comment #36559 by Logicel on May 1, 2007 at 2:27 pm

...but whether the language associated with the supernatural - the language of spirit and of the miraculous - helps us describe the world we inhabit in a way that complements the language of evolution and natural selection which Dawkins uses.
__________

So it is the language which describes make-believe that is important? This screams of desperation for a rationale to stay cloven to religion which is getting challenged for the useless claptrap it is. So it is not the ridiculous, contradictory beliefs which are important, or even God, that whimsical tyrant, but the LANGUAGE of religion.

What is he talking about? What language? Latin? Biblical language? Language of sermons? What special province does religious language, whatever that may be, have that secular poetry, prose, and music do not?

Moderates drive me nuts.

867. The God Delusion

Comment #36431 by Logicel on May 1, 2007 at 5:19 am

nice post, Thor

868. Pop Tech Lecture

Comment #36424 by Logicel on May 1, 2007 at 5:02 am

Though I have heard or read Dawkins discussing many of the points made in this vid, his delivery was superb--focused, energetic, and entertaining. I really enjoyed this one.

869. Religion & Culture Panel

Comment #36411 by Logicel on May 1, 2007 at 4:17 am

Kirsh is wedded to the opinion that Religion must still be useful in a positive sense simply because it still is being used in the world. So is female infibulation and genital mutilation, and so is rape.

Moderates, it seems, are more emotionally/mentally invested in religious superstitions than the fundamentalists. Their nauseating and continuing refrain is that religion is familiar, been with us all through our recorded history, how can we possible do without it? I think the moderates are the true religious addicts, and the fundamentalists can learn a thing or two from them. Oops, they already are--belief in belief without evidence is good because, well, it is something us humans have been doing for so long, so it must be good.

870. Religion & Culture Panel

Comment #36410 by Logicel on May 1, 2007 at 4:08 am

Liveliest Crib, spot-on analysis of the obfuscation which Kirsh uses. In essence, Kirsh works very hard to say nothing of clarity and usefulness through his flailing efforts to fancy dress-up his thread-bare doggerel.

871. 'god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything' by Christopher Hitchens

Comment #36399 by Logicel on May 1, 2007 at 3:37 am

tomjlawsonwrote: When "Lose Your Fears in 7 Days" hits the bookshelves then we might see a major change, but until then it's just spitting in the rain.
_____

Now that religion is on the table for criticism, I suspect that we will see lots of therapeutic, positive, life-enhancing books directed at replacing often damaging and ineffective religious 'solutions' for psychological and emotional needs.

However, as it has been pointed out in other threads, the potent allure of make-believe used unabashedly by the religites can not be matched. Though that fact needs to be told honestly, it does not necessarily mean such admission will be a deterrent in educating people how to live without make-believe as make-believe falls on its face in terms of using human energy to truly change our reality for the better. Human imagination using the stuff of the real world can fuel wonderful achievements. Who needs some stinking make-believe?

872. Convention ends with Satan and immigrants

Comment #36392 by Logicel on May 1, 2007 at 3:10 am

MIND_REBEL, the Landover Baptist website is a spoof, brilliantly poking fun at fundies.

873. Believe in God Spray

Comment #36387 by Logicel on May 1, 2007 at 3:02 am

21. Comment #36249 by atkinson on April 30, 2007 at 4:08 pm
The new invocation: Let us spray.
________

too funny!

874. Pundit Christopher Hitchens picks a fight in book, 'God is Not Great'

Comment #35842 by Logicel on April 29, 2007 at 3:14 am

Hitchens is, if he will forgive the religious reference, preaching to the choir.
_____

And what a wonderful, intelligent, enthusiastic, GROWING choir it is!

875. Pundit Christopher Hitchens picks a fight in book, 'God is Not Great'

Comment #35839 by Logicel on April 29, 2007 at 3:10 am

petermun wrote, My wife, fully armed with the arguments of Dawkins, Harris, Dennett et al shocked them into silence. They wowed never to return!
________

Way to go, Mrs. 'petermun'!!!

876. Scene Caused by Christian Group at NYC Stage Show

Comment #35834 by Logicel on April 29, 2007 at 3:02 am

Machinus wrote, It was about profanity! The f-word!
________

And the head of the school outing was informed that the language would be 'adult' beforehand, and they still abruptly herded out the students anyway as if the appearance of such words was unexpected. Instead of owning up to their MISTAKE, they compounded their error by disrupting the show and destroying property. Also, I would imagine that they have actually terrified their own by their actions, by imperiously demanding immediate evacuation and labeling the utterance of the 'f' word as a security issue.

That's it, guys, call fire in a crowed theater when there isn't any, and the result will be the next time you do it, you will not be listened to--the opposite of what these Christian chaperons want to encourage.

877. Scene Caused by Christian Group at NYC Stage Show

Comment #35824 by Logicel on April 29, 2007 at 2:06 am

And then I forgive him. He is very quiet--he is obviously shocked. And I tell him, "I want you to remember that a liberal atheist has forgiven you today. I don't want you to ever forget that, as long as you live, do not forget what happened here. I don't have God behind me, but I speak for myself, and I forgive you for myself, and for you. Never forget this."
________

Yet another example of an atheist teaching a Christian how to be "Christian."

878. We aim to misbehave

Comment #35630 by Logicel on April 28, 2007 at 2:49 am

Sam, a very nice and succinct post.

Reading and posting at this site now for close to 6 months has been a very positive experience for me--I have learned much information from an international community and from reading the varied articles posted here resulting in the increase of my confidence and skill in debating and challenging religious superstitions.

Religites who practice the majority religion in their geographical locations are not persecuted as they inanely insist, but instead are coddled and sheltered from opposition to the point that when their beliefs are questioned and challenged vigorously they regard such criticism as being off the deep end, angry, and indicative of an unhealthy mind. They embrace psychological defense mechanisms like second skins.

879. God Is in the Dendrites

Comment #35462 by Logicel on April 27, 2007 at 8:31 am

Persinger was quick to note that Dawkins had scored way below average on a psychological questionnaire measuring temporal lobe sensitivity—hints of a neurobiological correlate for atheism.
_______

SARCASM WARNING:

Why has God done this to Dawkins? Religites claims that God is there if you are only willing to converse with him. Does God love Dawkins less than the people in whom He fitted brains so as to be receptive to His divinity?

880. Bill Maher - APATHEIST

Comment #35381 by Logicel on April 27, 2007 at 3:20 am

Scarborough likes his Christianity well cherry picked. He seems to be fairly moderate and also embraces the compartmentalizing of his irrational faith from his rationality. Since he can cherry pick well and isolate himself from the nutty bits expressed within non-evidential faith-based beliefs, he regards his faith as benign, and does not grasp that encouraging such non-evidential faith is dangerous because many cannot do what he can do.

He is the type of Christian that thinks that the extremist type of Christianity has NOTHING to do with his kind. He cannot see the common denominator which feeds religious extremity--the encouraging of believing in belief because it is touted as being good, not because there is any evidence to such beliefs.

In addition, Scarborough was unable to understand that his doing his good Christian works is because he does want to be saved via Jesus. It is much better to do the good works because you, yourself, want to do them, for the benefits such action begets for yourself and others in the real world.

881. Bill Maher - APATHEIST

Comment #35366 by Logicel on April 27, 2007 at 2:28 am

In general, I personally don't get much out of Bill Mayer though I do think he is a very good political analyst but then again I am politically illiterate so maybe it is politics for dummies that he does.

He is unabashedly a hedonist which I admire.

882. Iran arrests 300 'insufficiently veiled' women

Comment #35362 by Logicel on April 27, 2007 at 2:12 am

There is this great travel TV show here in France, where this guy goes traveling all over the world by himself and his video camera with the goal of sleeping at some stranger's house. The viewer can get a real slice of life that way.

In Kuwait (if I recall correctly), he met a young man in traditional dress at a sports stadium who befriended him and tried to say that his countrymen were friendly despite the fact that they almost physically harmed the French guy for trying to take photos of women from afar.

The French guy and the Arab one met the next day, and the Arab guy very reluctantly consented for the visitor to stay at his home after the French guy again remarked how unfriendly everyone seemed. The Arab guy insisted that his countrymen were traditionally hospitable.

While staying at his newly found friend's home occupied by a big extended family, the Frenchman did not catch a glimpse of a woman. When asked why, the Arab guy said that women and men must be separated TO PREVENT DIVORCE. How about preventing real life from happening, how about that!!!!!!!!!!!!

The young Arab said that many in his country liked certain aspects of Western lifestyle like technology but were against the encroachment on traditional values like friendliness and hospitality. These traditional values are probably more based on the in and out group viewpoint, and not as admirable as this young Arab seems to think.

And the poster that has that fabulous avatar in question is a young Irish woman (I think) whose id here is Luthien.

883. Vote for the Time 100 - Are They Worthy?

Comment #35356 by Logicel on April 27, 2007 at 1:24 am

Bremas, I have been unable to find out when this poll ends. In addition, the polling page has come up blank for hours, preventing me from voting. RDs rating has sometimes made it up to 7 and 8.

884. We aim to misbehave

Comment #35031 by Logicel on April 26, 2007 at 3:35 am

Successful revolutionaries ignore the admonitions about which fork to use for their salad because they care only to grab the steak knife as they launch themselves over the table.
________

Way to go, PZ!

885. Bill O'Remix

Comment #35028 by Logicel on April 26, 2007 at 3:29 am

Fantastic! Not only can big media format how information is disseminated, so can the little guys.

886. Jesus 'Love-Bombs' You

Comment #34902 by Logicel on April 25, 2007 at 2:19 pm

flobear, thanks for that insightful comment. How can humanity encourage both individualism and social cohesion without giving up the one for the other?

887. The God disunion: there is a place for faith in science, insists Winston

Comment #34825 by Logicel on April 25, 2007 at 11:28 am

BillySands wrote, By saying some scientists deal with uncertainty with certainty, he is misrepresenting and damaging the public image of science himself.
______

I agree. Wise of Dawkins to decline comment until he sees the full text of Winston's lecture.

888. Shout your doubt out loud, my fellow unbelievers

Comment #34817 by Logicel on April 25, 2007 at 11:07 am

As mainstream Christian church attendances fall farther still I predict that the Church of England, and finally the Roman Catholics, will be driven to conclude that they cannot even afford to make enemies of homosexuals, unmarried couples and family planners, and start welcoming them in too. I expect they'll call it the "love community". In truth it's the "can't afford to be choosy" community.
______

Hilarious and so insightful.

889. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #34459 by Logicel on April 24, 2007 at 6:07 am

John Gleisheker, the attorney at Doctors Against Circumcision through email correspondence has answered my questions and gave court case proof of the authenticity of this case.

I am satisfied this case is authentic and if posters are so inclined to support this case by sending in donations for the costly legal work that has been on-going since January and/or publicize this case on the web, I encourage you do so. Please be aware that this article will receive significant exposure if the digg count can be raised, by clicking on the digg icon just above the comments at this thread. If you do not have a digg account, you can quickly register for one. Digg count is at 12 at this moment. Let's aim for a triple digit count.

890. Atheists split on how to not believe

Comment #34442 by Logicel on April 24, 2007 at 4:58 am

DNAtheist, I think your first post was adequately informative of your opinion; and not only did you clearly state your negative opinion of the author, you gave your reasons. And that is the kind of discussion that can go some place. It does not matter if the opinion is pro or con, but that the reasons for the opinion are given. This approach is just honest communication.

There were no expletives in your post. And thank you for pointing out how weefree framed your honest opinion based on your reasons as less than clear thinking.

891. The Video: Bill O'Reilly Interviews Richard Dawkins

Comment #34440 by Logicel on April 24, 2007 at 4:41 am

v4ri4bl3 wrote: And yes I do agree that life originated from "slime" if you would be so bold. If you disagree, and you are a male, ask your self what it is that you put in a cup at a fertility donation center. Doesn't that look like slime to you? Guess what, under the right conditions and about 9 months time it can create human life. From slime to baby in nine months and you're going to tell me that evolution could not have done something similar in billions of years?

_______

I like it! Hopefully, I will get a chance to use your graphic metaphor in a discussion with a godbotherer.

892. One Hell of a Religious Read

Comment #34423 by Logicel on April 24, 2007 at 2:39 am

Hitchens, who says he was once mistaken for the god "Sai Baba" in Sri Lanka, writes, "If I am hit by a bus on the day this book is published, there will certainly be people who will say it was no accident."
________

Hilarious.

893. Brian Lehrer interviews Richard Dawkins

Comment #34416 by Logicel on April 24, 2007 at 2:20 am

Interesting interview. Though little what is new or not been discussed before was on the table, I take these interviews to be like refresher courses in a topic in which I am very interested.

The show host is a typical NYC inhabitant--plain spoken, direct, and blunt. And of course as a native New Yorker myself, I always get a kick out of the accents and place names like Greenpoint--that densely populated northern tip of the borough of Brooklyn, nestled under what I would imagine is still a fairly smelly Newton creek.

894. 'The Day They Kicked God out of the Schools' & Rebuttal

Comment #34406 by Logicel on April 24, 2007 at 1:42 am

Great post, Tim Marsh.

895. The Video: Bill O'Reilly Interviews Richard Dawkins

Comment #34402 by Logicel on April 24, 2007 at 1:17 am

I also thought that this short interview of Dawkins by O'Reilly was useful in giving credibility to atheism. The sound bites, on which O'Reilly flourishes, not only work to his advantage, but also to the advantage of his guest. The presentation was packaged simply, because O'Reilly is targeting his audience which thrives on easily digested bits of information. Dawkins can be considered a brilliant strategist for accepting to be interviewed in this milieu. Kudos, RD!

896. Atheists split on how to not believe

Comment #34239 by Logicel on April 23, 2007 at 3:33 pm

I counted three posts in the first 33 posts that contained insulting words. I think that is pretty good for a heated topic in an essentially uncensored setup.

However, it would be helpful for all of us in order to learn more about the core arguments if instead of just reaching for a handy expletive, if we all try instead to put into well tempered words our rebuttals which we are making to articles, vids, etc., i.e., the aspect that has triggered our disgust enabling us to fire off expletives. Those expletives are potentially golden nuggets of rationality. Let's constructively channel our anger and disgust in honing our argument without using expletives.

BrianCoughland is an inspiration for me, because several weeks ago he was very able to let the expletives fly, and now he has channeled all that energy creatively and is producing productive, stimulating, and beneficial videos. Let's learn from his example.

897. Pope abolishes limbo

Comment #34040 by Logicel on April 23, 2007 at 5:04 am

How nice, because of devolved quoting from TGD I decided to check the quote out, and after I am finished with this comment, I am going to curl up with not only that wonderfully clear, cogent, and convincing book but also one that is eloquently written and triple my reading pleasure by reading it for the third time.

pp 140, bottom of the page, TGD, RD writes:

One-off events like this might be explained by the anthropic principle, along the following lines. There are billions of planets that have developed life at the level of bacteria, but only a fraction of these life forms ever made it across the gap to something like the eucaryotic cell. And of these, a yet smaller fraction managed to cross the later Rubicon to consciousness. If both of these are one-off events, we are not dealing with a ubiquitous and all-pervading process, as we are with ordinary, run-of-the-mill biological adaptation. The anthropic principle states that, since we are alive, eucaryotic and conscious, our planet has to be one of the intensely rare planets that has bridged all three gaps.

Simple, elegant, and substantial. Wow!

898. Pope abolishes limbo

Comment #34033 by Logicel on April 23, 2007 at 4:49 am

7. Comment #33998 by Enblomst on April 23, 2007 at 2:48 am
I think it was that annoying song by chubby checker that got to him.
_________

Hilarious.

899. Street Evangelist Saves 300 Souls From Enjoying Park

Comment #33999 by Logicel on April 23, 2007 at 2:51 am

Great vid response by Briancoughlandworldcitizen. I worked off my insomnia last night by posting a few comments, about 30 at last count! Such a boring lot of religites, it is not only nice but also intellectually stimulating to be back posting among people who are not afraid to critically think and even criticize each other. Christians have been so coddled from direct and clear criticism that they misunderstand the motivation of the criticism and think it is hate or anger which of course it is not; it is just well thought out criticism.

900. Answers To the Atheists

Comment #33877 by Logicel on April 22, 2007 at 12:08 pm

Shrommer, Thank you for replying to my points and for trying to let go of God and describing how it was. I see it was not anymore a positive experience for you than my trying to pray was!

I am glad for you that your perspective enriches your life, and I hope that you are one of the special ones who can keep on compartmentalizing the supernatural from the natural. In your being able to do that, I am somewhat reassured that you would not pose a threat to humanity by the dangers which are presented in holding non-evidential religious beliefs. If a religious believer has faith and needs not to question it in a critical manner, then that faith can lead to very unethical results.

Your 'reality' is based on your subjective experience and interpretation of writings of others of which there is little evidential proof of their accuracy. This approach of yours is often presented to me as a reasonable, rational one--that your personal beliefs and intimate revelations are nestled within a larger, confirming framework. Sorry, I can't buy that. I don't feel trapped or imprisoned within my humanity, I acknowledge it for what it is. It has limitations and I focus on working within them which gives me a sense of being grounded and fulfilled within reality, within the natural world.

You wrote, I don't see my job as one of creating meaning, but rather one of discovering meaning. If your decisions in your natural life--I need to specify that, separating it from the supernatural one you believe is yet to come--are your own and do not stem from being manipulated by a puppet owner, then you are creating meaning in your life, and we both are not doing that much differently from the other.

I think what is only fair is for you say that since you have perceived that the Holy spirit is living inside of you, you feel that you are really living and certainly living better compared to before when the Holy Spirit was not perceived by you as being within you. There is no evidence that can be presented to establish the existence of a spirit within you. I can accept what you are perceiving, but I cannot agree that it is real or that the Holy Spirit's existence thusly has been proven by your subjective experience.