851. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253776 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 11:15 pm

Don't scurry away, Brian - your point is solid. The fact is that the majority of pregnancies end in natural abortion. Should the medical fraternity aim to prevent these? Obviously not. What moral justification, then, is there in enforcing that a firmly implanted foetus come to full term? Does the embryo have "rights" by virtue of its accidental good fortune?

852. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253772 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 11:09 pm

Yeah, I knew that, Fanusi. Funny, huh? Of course, in the modern sense, the Hippocratic oath is assumed to be a simple measure which ensures the doctor's complete devotion to the patient's needs. Interesting point, though; has the Hippocratic oath been amended to strike the "abortive remedy" clause?

853. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253768 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 11:04 pm

Aw, shucks, Brian;) As TalkyMeat said, people tend to get stuck on abortion because it can become, essentially, an emotive issue. When you realise that an embryo is not a human in the philosophical sense, and just a bunch of cells, any argument over abortion becomes pointless.

854. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253766 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 10:56 pm

On topic - doctors have a duty of care. Hippocratic oath, and all that. Patients have the right to demand, and be involved in, the provision of that care. What if I was a teacher and had a religious objection to teaching science, because it might lead to students questioning their religious upbringing. Should I be allowed to not teach science? Argument over.

855. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253763 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 10:53 pm

Um, Boag's and Stella, maybe? "These beers are my only friend", -what about the dog?

856. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253759 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 10:44 pm

This is a brand new outfit; we've only had two outings to see how the songs sound live, and in my humble opinion they CRANKED!

857. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253755 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 10:39 pm

Lineup's Drums, percussion, keys, bass, 2 guitars, trumpet, alto, tenor, violin, cello, lead vox 3 backing vox. I play guitar. No wonder it's so hard to organise on a budget of a couple of Mars Bars and a can of Coke.

858. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253753 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 10:35 pm

The one song I'm fond of at the moment is about eastern suburb ditzes who read New Idea for the horoscope. It's called "Uranuses Don't Line Up."

859. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253751 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 10:32 pm

Swing stuff, Brian - with horns and strings. As to cubase, trial and error is always good, that's how I learnt it. (Instruction manuals assume you have two or three brains; the one I've got for Logic is over a thousand pages.I'd much rather read War and Peace.

860. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253749 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 10:19 pm

Excellent quote, and perfectly true.

Wrote two new pieces on the weekend. Now, if only I can get those pesky copyists and musos on the job, we might actually produce something.

861. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253746 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 10:09 pm

Brian, any blokes who can provide Kantian interpretations of beer-tasting DESERVE a Ph.D.

862. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253744 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 9:56 pm

OK, Brian, I'm bending over now. No, one (in one's advancing years) tends to take the old "look at my university degrees" crap with a pinch of salt. Don't need it; am over it. Guys like you and Goldy have terrific brains and we have all had many a fine discussion, wonderfully developed and nuanced.

863. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253742 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 9:50 pm

Goldy, Brian, how's it? Hey, is anyone else getting sick of Jesus comments like

You guys really do need a much more developed and nuanced moral theory

864. Catholic maternity wards 'face closure' if abortion law passes

Comment #253729 by Laurie Fraser on September 24, 2008 at 8:47 pm

Hey, Goldy.

Good post, Talky Meat (strange nom de plume, though!) yes, you've now managed to piss off both sides :) (with some iron logic.)

865. Without God

Comment #252933 by Laurie Fraser on September 23, 2008 at 10:56 pm

Hey Brian - your question is a no-brainer: beer IS existence! (The students are still hard at work, the little darlings!)

Thanks for that link - looks interesting at first glance.

866. Cathedral seminar to equip clerics to deal with Dawkins

Comment #252927 by Laurie Fraser on September 23, 2008 at 10:24 pm

Send Diacanu! Send Diacanu!

867. Without God

Comment #252923 by Laurie Fraser on September 23, 2008 at 10:05 pm

Bonzai...you can't ... resist...

Hi all - nice to see all the philosophers out this afternoon. (I'm in my classroom RDing while my students do their exam - "Discuss the existentialist underpinnings of the theme of fear in 'The Rime of the Ancient Mariner'.)

I enjoyed Weinberg's article greatly. He is an excellent writer (for a scientist:)). The First Three Minutes is still an excellent read, all these years after its publication.

868. Without God

Comment #252880 by Laurie Fraser on September 23, 2008 at 6:46 pm

20 years ago I was ..er...um HEY HONEY! WHERE'S MY ALZHEIMER PILLS?

869. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252498 by Laurie Fraser on September 23, 2008 at 7:53 am

CFL 990. Comment #252485 - excellent post. A real voice of reason. Well said.

870. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252482 by Laurie Fraser on September 23, 2008 at 6:58 am

Titania - you just disappeared for a while to get a couple of guinnesses into you, didn't you? ;)

Apropos your comment re lefties being more intelligent - you don't need to iterate the blindingly obvious, my good woman!

871. Turkey bans biologist Richard Dawkins' website

Comment #252477 by Laurie Fraser on September 23, 2008 at 6:31 am

Good for you, Richard - I do hope that Turkish citizens will be able to make their voices heard over this egregious insult to reason.

872. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252458 by Laurie Fraser on September 23, 2008 at 5:30 am

Well, Hitchens also believes that the invasion of Iraq was a good thing - what does that say about some of his judgemental abilities?

873. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252447 by Laurie Fraser on September 23, 2008 at 5:07 am

Diacanu - PM for you.

874. Ancient underwater reef found in SA's Flinders Ranges

Comment #252435 by Laurie Fraser on September 23, 2008 at 4:38 am

I walked on this reef in April this year. It is immense, incredibly strange, and OLD - like the rest of the Flinders Ranges. Worth the trip, for anyone considering visiting Oz.

875. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252429 by Laurie Fraser on September 23, 2008 at 4:32 am

Let's carpet-bomb Cambodia.
Let's stand by and applaud while our mates murder half a million Indonesians.
Let's have a little fun in Chile.
Let's keep supplying arms to our friend Saddam Hussein.
Let's train and equip our little mate Osama bin Laden, so he can fight off the evil Russkies.
Let's have a little more fun in El Salvador, Honduras, Niceragua, and Grenada.
Let's invade sovereign nations and then wipe our hands of the results of those invasions.
Let's spend as much money on the military as the rest of the world combined.

But let's not allow the tiniest hint of criticism.

876. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252408 by Laurie Fraser on September 23, 2008 at 3:57 am

Sargeist - that's a reasonable point, and quite true. If Islamic jihadists had the resources of the U.S. the world would be an ugly place indeed. Thank fuck they haven't, but my point is that there is no difference in the "quality" of evil paraded by both sides. The U.S. is just able to prosecute its evil far more effectively, whilst concealing under the propagandistic guise of bringing "freedom" and "democracy" to the world. Pass me the bucket.

877. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252404 by Laurie Fraser on September 23, 2008 at 3:47 am

A couple of comments.
I've known, and know, plenty of Muslims. All of them are Australians, and all of them are of the opinion that "jihadism" is a terrible misrepresentation of what they consider to be a peaceful religion. In other words, they don't have a fundamentalist interpretation of the Koran. They choose to worship their god in the same way that a moderate anglican worships his: mostly privately, and without hysterics.

Fundamentalist Muslims can be, and often are, dangerous, evil loonies. Just like fundamentalist christians. Exactly the same as. Identical with. Look at Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Ian Paisley, and any number of other bellicose, belligerent mongrels who preach hate and death to the infidel. These are the fuckwits who persuade a majority (laughably called the "moral majority") to instal evil and dangerous regimes like the Bush government which wages war on innocent civilians in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere, murdering hundreds of thousands. You don't think the daisy-cutter is a terrorist weapon? Have a look at the effects of it on anybody unfortunate enough to be within cooee of it. Don't talk to me about the evils of Islam. The record of the fundamentalist-inspired denizens of the lunatic United States right outstrips the evils of islamic fanaticism by a country mile.

878. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252195 by Laurie Fraser on September 22, 2008 at 3:11 pm

Comment #252189 by AtheistJon
Because that pretty well describes the ignoramus, Atheist Jon. Sometimes, one has to call a spade a spade. I defy anyone to look at the vid that this entire thread is based upon, and come to any other rational conclusion. Get over it, rightists - your girl's a lemon.

879. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252188 by Laurie Fraser on September 22, 2008 at 3:07 pm

Morning, Goldy - I also get the advertising jingle in my head every time I hear "McCain". I think that's significant - that particular brand of comestibles is always bland, and frozen.

880. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252177 by Laurie Fraser on September 22, 2008 at 3:00 pm

If you want to listen to an intelligent, left woman, then you might like to check out the Australian deputy PM, Julia Gillard. She makes Palin look like the blundering, obtuse fuck-knuckle she is.

881. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252153 by Laurie Fraser on September 22, 2008 at 2:44 pm

To me, she seems like a well spoken, well educated woman. I guess leftists can't stand that a conservative woman would have such qualities.

882. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252123 by Laurie Fraser on September 22, 2008 at 2:27 pm

I'm defending her against a bunch of loser ad hominite leftists who can't mount an argument without calling people names like "redneck", "fundamentalist", etc...

883. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252096 by Laurie Fraser on September 22, 2008 at 2:00 pm

Comment #252088 by Ian (South Africa)

Ian - PM for you in a minute.

884. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252089 by Laurie Fraser on September 22, 2008 at 1:54 pm

As to Palin's competence - is there any question of her lack of it? One only has to look at the video that began this thread to see that she is a brainless, ignorant, fundie nut-job. Anybody care to disagree with that sentiment?

885. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252059 by Laurie Fraser on September 22, 2008 at 1:30 pm

Comment #252058 by decius

Seconded.

886. Secular schools of thought tainted

Comment #252041 by Laurie Fraser on September 22, 2008 at 1:09 pm

Comment #252034 by Skeptic Pete

Spot on, mate. As an aside, I had an interesting opportunity several years ago when I was on the P&C of my kids' primary school. I offered to take any kids who didn't want to go to a scripture class for a lesson in philosophy. For that year, I had about twenty kids who got to discuss various ethical and general philosophical issues appropriate for their age. Some parents complained that I was undermining the role of scripture in the school (which I was, of course!), but the principal, to her credit, told those parents to take a hike.

887. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252018 by Laurie Fraser on September 22, 2008 at 12:44 pm

Comment #251997 by decius
You are correct, Decius, but I would go further to say that Fanusi's et al single-issue agenda totally derails threads that might be profitably discusing the issue at hand. It's pretty simple. Any reasonable person acknowledges that threats to world security come from different quarters. Jihadist islamism is just one of those. But there are other much more pressing threats as well - climate change heads the list, obviously, as Tim Flannery pointed out this evening: http://www.abc.net.au/tv/enoughrope/transcripts/s2369164.htm
Energy competition, meanwhile, largely drives U.S. terrorism in Asia, and anyone who denies that the U.S. is a major terrorist threat, and an instigator of oppositional terrorism, has his head firmly up his arse.

To be purely concerned about islam as a "threat" denies reality, and demonstrates merely the pathological hatreds of the Fanusi brigade, rather than offering sound, reasonable analysis of islam as part, but not all of, the problem.

888. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251752 by Laurie Fraser on September 22, 2008 at 3:19 am

Comment #251740 by decius

Spot on, Decius!

889. Richard Dawkins infected with Satanic 'virus of mind', Christian group claims

Comment #251748 by Laurie Fraser on September 22, 2008 at 3:12 am

Evening all,
I se that Professor Robertson has become a moderate in the face of the heavy=handed tactics of his religious joy-boy mates.

And the press release he put out (which the Times was stupid enough to publicise) is humourless, banal and dumb. A bit like my own writings.

890. Religion and Child Abuse

Comment #251679 by Laurie Fraser on September 21, 2008 at 10:55 pm

Goldy, Brian - congratulations! Hilarious exchange of the year.

891. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251630 by Laurie Fraser on September 21, 2008 at 7:15 pm

Now, I believe some LUNATIC is equating Obama with Marxism. Bring the infidel before me! Certain parts of anatomies may need new holes chewed in them.



*sorry, gotta go - in between jobs, have to drive thirty K to next one. Don't have time for this imbecility at the moment.*

892. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251145 by Laurie Fraser on September 21, 2008 at 6:14 am

Decius, there's no such thing as absolute right and wrong.




(Except when it comes to Fanusi)

893. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251097 by Laurie Fraser on September 21, 2008 at 4:47 am

It was more of a insanely optimistic attempt to engage the troll in rational conversation.

I'm an elitist snob myself.

894. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251084 by Laurie Fraser on September 21, 2008 at 4:08 am

Comment #251082 by BrandySpears

I think that particular coin, Brandy, would fall on its edge for sure.

895. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251083 by Laurie Fraser on September 21, 2008 at 4:06 am

Ah, but Mitchell - you know how we highly intelligent leftists like to slum it sometimes :)

896. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251079 by Laurie Fraser on September 21, 2008 at 4:00 am

So, do I take it that you would prefer McCain/Palin over Obama? And did I not say that I wasn't impressed, myself, with Obama? Which makes the insinuation that I am a cheerleader for Obama somewhat silly.

You haven't seen the arguments I've had with my fellow rightists about the effect of Christianity, so kindly get off that idiotic high horse.

897. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251072 by Laurie Fraser on September 21, 2008 at 3:44 am

his isn't about supporting Palin so much as about a desire to see the Obama campaign go down in flames.

898. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251068 by Laurie Fraser on September 21, 2008 at 3:37 am

You'll be surprised by this, Fanusi - but I agree with you. The trouble is, American politics is so fucked up that there is no genuine, progressive political party. The choice is the entirely evil Republican machine, or the just slightly more moderate Democrats, who are nevertheless right-wing to the core. You guys need a progressive social-democrat party who will address the increasing impoverishment of many of your citizens and provide publicly funded health-care (sheesh, how backward are you?), and the complete de-mobilisation of the military so they can be put to productive work.

I should be president of the USA.

899. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251062 by Laurie Fraser on September 21, 2008 at 3:26 am

Well, that's cool, Fanusi - if W.C. is your guide, you'll be voting against McCain/Palin, then?

900. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251056 by Laurie Fraser on September 21, 2008 at 3:17 am

Onya, Fanusi - Now you're going to tell us how much more intelligent and astute than Obama she is. This I gotta see!