901. NEXT MONDAY: Bill O'Reilly interviews Richard Dawkins

Comment #33713 by Logicel on April 21, 2007 at 10:21 am

O'Reilly in the above vid labelled, Is Bill O'Reilly a closet atheist? stated that believing something with no evidence is fine because the simple desire to want to believe is good enough reason to, he has no problem with that. The problem that he has is when there is evidence and people deny it; it is those people from which he encourages to run away. An example would be to run away from a holocaust denier.

This stance is very odd. You would think that if he is able to see the dangers of not respecting evidence, that he would not encourage people to believe without evidence, especially something as wonky as the supernatural. O'Reilly presents his rationalizing a desire into acceptable reality as being logical. Very sad.

I want to believe that George Clooney lusts after my body. Do you think I can rationalize that desire into reality?

902. Dinesh D'Souza says I don't exist: an atheist at Virginia Tech

Comment #33702 by Logicel on April 21, 2007 at 7:54 am

phil rimmer wrote, At root, I see religion as a long-term mental health problem. The pushers must be made to feel the responsibilities they may bear for denying millions the best possible mental health.
______

A double prong approach could be doubly effective--the recipients of drugs need also to be reached, in fact, they are the most important part of the solution. If they know how to say no, they will put the drug/religious dealers out of business.

903. Richard Dawkins interviews the Bishop of Oxford

Comment #33694 by Logicel on April 21, 2007 at 6:56 am

fonex_86, It seems that the neutered SpagMon certainly failed to get up on the 'brighty bright' side of the neutered self's bed this glorious spring day--not surprising as the neutered self has confessed to quite an aversion to all things 'brighty bright'. If you are wondering why I am referring to the SpagMon as neutered it is because that is the way the neutered self thusly describes the neutered self in an earlier post on another thread.

To clarify my comment so deliciously mangled by the SpagMon, let me use a food related metaphor, one that fishpeddler would appreciate, the master that he is regarding the use of such metaphors. Imagine someone concocting a meal for me. This chef takes the very best and freshest romaine lettuce, massing it together to make a nice appetizing green bed and surrounds the crispy leaves with the ripest, most succulent, red cherry tomatoes. The chef then decides to dump on top of this inviting culinary preamble, a ton of chicken shit, spicing it up with some bracing paint remover and ending his masterpiece by sprinkling some horse urine for extra punch. This meal would horrify me, not frighten me. I would only become frightened if the chef had the means and power to cram this repast down my reluctant throat.

The unsavory elements in the meal are the bollocks represented by religious supernatural beliefs, and the savory elements--the nourishing, vitamin/mineral rich foods like lettuce and tomatoes--are represented by rationality. The bishop is the chef, and as he has no power or even intent to cram his weird concoction into my brain, I am not frightened by him.

904. Richard Dawkins interviews the Bishop of Oxford

Comment #33669 by Logicel on April 21, 2007 at 2:45 am

AndyD, Some think as you do regarding moderates being an useful bridge, and perhaps you are right as there are no psychological studies that I am aware of that will enable humanists to identify the perfect approach to encourage the embracing of rationality.

As my earlier comment showed, at this stage, I agree with the camp in which Dawkins is one, that moderates shelter the fanatics by not focusing on the danger of holding beliefs that are not based on evidential proof. This bishop has pulled off a balance that I consider to be mostly impossible for most of us. As other posters have asked, why is this bishop so rare? He is rare because to do what he does is that difficult.

905. Dinesh D'Souza says I don't exist: an atheist at Virginia Tech

Comment #33665 by Logicel on April 21, 2007 at 1:53 am

denoir, It is useful to state the obvious, which is that the make believe aspect of religion is the potent punch lacking in the rational, secular, humanist approach. The obvious is not spoken more often, because perhaps we think that challenging aspect will go away if we do not discuss it! Unless humanity makes themselves immortal and indestructible, I can't see any approach that humanists can come up with that will replace comfort derived from make believe.

However, if the need for religion is eliminated more and more over the globe, in terms of erasing poverty and preventable diseases, and the establishment of widespread education, etc., then it will be harder for people to make believe, and thus be able to derive comfort from it. The release of human creativity, purpose, and drive--not to mention money--resulting from such a decoupling has the potential to greatly increase the quality of human lives by focusing on real, sustainable solutions.

The enduring attraction of religious make believe constitutes a vicious circle, and certainly not a virtuous one: humanity, not being able to handle issues like mortality, gives rise to comforting via religious make-believe which in turn gives rise to blocking real solutions, which in turn feeds the need for religious make-believe, etc.

906. Dinesh D'Souza says I don't exist: an atheist at Virginia Tech

Comment #33602 by Logicel on April 20, 2007 at 5:17 pm

Do we know how effective religious comforting truly is? I know several people who lost their faith because of the loss of a child. Apparently religion was unable to comfort them. I think of the odd short story where after many decades of giving roses to his wife--thinking she loved receiving roses--the husband is killed by his wife when he offers unknowingly what would be his last bouquet of roses because the wife got no comfort from this particular display of affection and in reality hated it.

The comfort supposedly provided by religion needs to be submitted to psychological studies. We take it for granted that religion comforts, just because that is commonly believed. Now that religion is being challenged and criticized, perhaps its 'effects' can really be detailed and identified.

907. A debate on people who profess no religion

Comment #33443 by Logicel on April 20, 2007 at 5:48 am

foxfire wrote, Us "average Americans" really do need to get out more and experience the rest of the world. That way, we would be much more likely to not fall victim to our own bullshit.
________

My prayers have been answered (:-)))))! And the world wide web has delivered the means by which they have been answered. There are many excellent audios, videos, and blogs which cover international viewpoints of which are now accessible to Americans. Please bookmark a representative list of links which you can email to your family, acquaintances, and friends as alternatives to Fox and CNN.

908. Richard Dawkins interviews the Bishop of Oxford

Comment #33440 by Logicel on April 20, 2007 at 5:38 am

I have listened to this uncut version several weeks ago, and the bishop does a decent and humanitarian job--especially relating to his emphasis on the importance of palliative care--of discussing issues important to all of us. However, I was chilled to the bone, when patiently and relentlessly pressed by Dawkins, the bishop with great feeling and animation revealed the absolute bollocks of his belief in Jesus and what he views as the beautiful importance and meaning of the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

I still can't shake the feeling of horror, that such intelligence is imprisoned within a superstitious sphere. Unlike others, it made me almost cry from disappointment and dismay, instead of feeling positive about atheists and Christians getting along. I perceive this very religious bishop to be dangerous as he appears so accommodating and thoughtful, which he certainly is in part, but absolute bollocks is lurking under all that good sense.

Perhaps this bishop is fortunate enough to be one of the rare people who can compartmentalize the natural from the supernatural well enough to function with integrity and good sense, but his example does not mean that the majority of people can pull of what he has, and yet his success may encourage others not to remain steadfast in focusing on the dangers of supernatural beliefs based on no evidential proof. This religiously moderate bishop therefore gives false hope to atheists.

909. Dinesh D'Souza says I don't exist: an atheist at Virginia Tech

Comment #33297 by Logicel on April 19, 2007 at 7:54 pm

Very emotive. Contrast this essay brimming over with compassion and intelligence and the wretched article written by D'Sousa. Since D'Sousa has shown a consistent inability to feel shame for his hateful opinions, one almost is compelled to feel it for him.

910. Where Is Atheism When Bad Things Happen?

Comment #33288 by Logicel on April 19, 2007 at 7:43 pm

D'Souza can be depended on to keep on saying egregiously vicious and stupid words, which is great--this latest diatribe of his is causing even Christians to protest! Keep up the good work, D'Souza.

911. Flea Circus!

Comment #33267 by Logicel on April 19, 2007 at 6:59 pm

"But when you do don't be surprised when I reply in kind and please don't run to mummy telling tales about how the nasty theist is upsetting you."
_________

Weefree, Choosing the flag for troll, spam, and offensive is not running to mummy, it is a way for the posters here to contribute in monitoring the site themselves.

912. NEXT MONDAY: Bill O'Reilly interviews Richard Dawkins

Comment #33222 by Logicel on April 19, 2007 at 3:55 pm

Dawkins must know the unsavory reputation of O'Reilly, and he still has decided to be interviewed. Dawkins knows what he is doing and can handle the situation. The Fox audience may not like what Dawkins has to say, but it will be the beginning of getting the atheistic, rational sound bite to those ninnies.

The only bad thing is that I will have to watch O'Reilly in order to see RD.

913. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #33041 by Logicel on April 19, 2007 at 3:47 am

Yorker, I love color and via ctrl and u I discovered how to do it too!

914. Christians at Bible publishers have their throats cut

Comment #33037 by Logicel on April 19, 2007 at 3:36 am

Isik, I also support Turkey's entry in the EU. Do you support that?

I agree that religious people do have the right to practice their religion, in private. I respect that right, however, I am sure you would not want me to lie and say that I respect your actual religious beliefs, because I cannot in truth say that. Therefore in not respecting the content of your beliefs, while respecting the right for you to be able to practice your beliefs, I will criticise those beliefs but support your right to practice them.

915. Flea Circus!

Comment #33024 by Logicel on April 19, 2007 at 3:13 am

weefree, in his earlier and frequent id incarnations, has been flagged for being a troll, not for being a theist with whom we disagree. I flagged an atheist as a troll recently because he was clogging up the thread with the repetition of his same points over and over again via hugely long comments charged with great emotion and could not accept that others disagreed with him who gave their reasons for doing so.

Unlike weefree, that poster stopped clogging the thread and did not get demoted to troll status. It is astonishing how weefree cannot grasp this little bit of thread etiquette. At this point, weefree is not showing any sign of trolling, but with his history, he could morph into one.

916. Flea Circus!

Comment #33021 by Logicel on April 19, 2007 at 3:05 am

Russell Blackford, My fave is: The Dawkins Dorkitude and am pleased that you thought up some for "our" side also! Though I certainly hope the atheists don't stoop to the level of the theists.

917. Sam's Flea!

Comment #32896 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 4:15 pm

In addition, focus needs to be placed on preventing rape, which includes educating women to protect themselves, and educating men about the inhumanity of rape.

918. Sam's Flea!

Comment #32891 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 4:07 pm

"My point is, rather, that, absent God, if someone decides to live that way, what can an atheist use to appeal to him?"
________

That if he breaks the law, he will most likely be caught?

And if the rapist is near the end of his life, why would anybody need to appeal to the rapist? What is this attraction with appealing to a rapist? A rapist breaks the law, he gets put in prison. If he is willing, he can work with a therapist, if not, there is nothing that can be done but to accept that the person is a rapist with no regrets, and that people need to be protected from the rapist.

919. Medicine without Evolution Make Sense?

Comment #32851 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 1:23 pm

Lions, worms, and primates have a steady diet of french fries and burgers?

Eating is not enough. Eating the right foods is what needs to be done, and in America the ignorance concerning what constitutes nutritious food is astounding.

920. Medicine without Evolution Make Sense?

Comment #32849 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 1:17 pm

And my clever husband is fond of saying, that if a doctor makes us well, then we should pay for the services, if not, then the doctor should get no payment!

921. Medicine without Evolution Make Sense?

Comment #32848 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 1:16 pm

MarkSmith, I agree. RD in TGD very astutely said there is only good and bad medicine instead of mainstream versus alternative. However, much of mainstream medicine is bad because prevention and education of the patient is hardly ever done.

I remember 30 years ago, stumbling on research that certain fats are bad, and certain are good, like the ones contained in nuts, seeds, and cold pressed vegetable oils. My MD told me I was nuts (Ha!) because I was spending so much more on extra virgin olive oil (that is, cold pressed). Now, it is commonly accepted. It took 30 years!!!! Anyway, I ignored my doctor, since I was confident in my research and have been imbibing cold pressed veggie oils for decades.

922. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32846 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 12:46 pm

Anyway, this article stimulated some very good discussion and I learned a lot!

923. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32844 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 12:42 pm

Ok, the real, super, mega NYC cynic is surfacing in me. How convenient that the case is being held in a state whose Appeals Court does not publish opinions in Lexis and Westlaw. Who would take the trouble to actually request info from the Oregon Court? Most would just donate some money instead.

And it is the kind of issue that can raise the emotional hackles to a such degree, that good sense could be thrown out the window. I browsed through the Daily Kos diary posted in January, and the guy that is pushing that there is enough evidence that this story is real, is very much against circumcision. Anyway, I am not going to get any more involved in this story, because it is too fishy for me.

EDIT: I deleted my post here requesting posters to digg this article.

924. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32841 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 12:32 pm

An excerpt from a review:

"Misha, then, is a visionary of sorts, assisted by megadoses of Ativan and a steady supply of alcohol. A non-practicing Jew whose father has him circumcised at an advanced age,..."

http://www.curledup.com/absurdis.htm

925. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32840 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 12:26 pm

Here is the wikipedia entry on the novel, Absurdistan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdistan_%28novel%29

926. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32787 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 8:55 am

rabidchihauhau, Intuition is recognition of patterns, and as someone who is experienced in validating accuracy in investigative reports, you probably can pick off a fraud pattern much easier than the rest of us.

927. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32776 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 8:32 am

I remember a colleague of mine who decided to please her mother-in-law to-be, a holocaust surviver, by converting to Judaism so her son and my friend could be married via a Jewish ceremony. It took her months to go through the process--the Rabbi in charge of her conversion took it very seriously.

928. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32749 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 7:00 am

Cell +1. 206. 465. 6636 is what is given as J. Geisheker mobile number. Site management needs to at the very least call this number.

929. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32746 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 6:54 am

There is no clear link given to the supposed Misha Boldt case on the D.O.C site, just a link to a very confusing, difficult to weed through list of Oregon court cases.

I am with rabidchihauhau on this appearing to be very fishy.

930. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32740 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 6:42 am

rabidchihauhau, I also cannot find anything else except what you have found--the domestic violence case between Mr and Mrs Boldt.

931. Who Needs Sex (or Males) Anyway?

Comment #32694 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 3:36 am

"By showing that asexual organisms have diverged into "independently evolving and distinct entities," the researchers argue, this study "refutes the idea that sex is necessary for diversification into evolutionary species." They hope others use their approach to study mechanisms underlying species divergence in sexual taxa to clarify the hazy nature of species and biological diversity."
_______

Yup, it is inspiring that scientists, because of the potent nature of the scientific method and body of resulting knowledge, do the opposite of committing intellectual suffocation within the dogmatic box like the religites do with such joy and willing investment of their time and mental energy.

However, the scientists involved in this study did not thrown out the baby with the bath water--they kept the the baby (evolutionary species diversification) but changed the bath water (sex).

932. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32577 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 12:37 pm

"I think a very powerful reason there isn't more disgust and outrage in America over circumcision..."
_______

In addition, the majority of American adult males are sexually mutilated. I suspect that they would find it hard to regard themselves thusly, and would like their sons to look like them, and not the other way around.

933. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32563 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 12:01 pm

Poem which is hidden in American MDs desk drawers:

Give your son's foreskin to lop,
If it hurts, no problem, he will get a lollipop.
When older, he can still enjoy a fling
But not as much as I enjoy the cash register going k-ching.

934. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32558 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 11:48 am

In the UK nobody makes money from circumcision.
In the UK 98% of males are uncircumcised.
In the US every snip makes somebody some money.
In the US 95%(?) of males are circumcised.
________

Very interesting to think of the widespread practice of male circumcision in America as generously donating your son's foreskin to increase the GNP.

935. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32467 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 6:02 am

L.Minnik, Parents are caretakers not owners of children. Many would disagree.

936. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32463 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 5:58 am

My tired and sweet Veronique, I am grateful to your fatigue for the following about which I am still laughing like a mad woman: "I have no idea how those men perceived their 'mutilation'. Most, within my life span, were severed in the first few days of their lives and, for all intents and purposes, have known no different. In my sexual life, I have never known any of my lovers to have felt hampered by circumcision."

Oh, my, severing of the penis does not hamper sexual intercourse?

937. Irish poll shows parents no longer want to force religion on to children

Comment #32460 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 5:51 am

Luthien, Irish wakes sound like a great opportunity for storytelling which the Irish can do with the best of them. Now, if only the religious part could be removed.

938. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32437 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 4:17 am

Could one obstacle to ending the prevalent and supposedly medical-based male circumcision is that circumcised adult males shy away from admitting they are essentially walking proof of irreversible sexual mutilation?

What percentage of male doctors who perform these medical based circumcisions are circumcised themselves? Is this similar to the female 'circumcision' situation where females play an active role in perpetrating the atrocity on other females?

939. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32417 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 3:15 am

keith, Most of us have limited pockets, so we need to decide how we want to donate money. Regardless, the connection of the donation appeal to this site, is that a successful court case will weaken the religious stanglehold over stupidity.

940. Doctors Opposing Circumcision: An Appeal for Misha

Comment #32411 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 3:07 am

bitbutter, click on the home icon at the bottom of the link page. They accept paypal. The paypal icon is in the middle of the below link page:


http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/

941. Irish poll shows parents no longer want to force religion on to children

Comment #32403 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 2:35 am

aleprechaunist, What do you like about Irish wakes?

942. Mozart doesn't make you clever

Comment #32400 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 2:16 am

Brains become fit and stay fit when they are used. To me it makes sense, that passive listening to music would not add to brain fitness, and actively learning how to play music with a focus to excel at it, would encourage brain fitness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_fitness

943. Mozart doesn't make you clever

Comment #32398 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 2:09 am

scottishgeologist, hilarious annotated bad album covers link. Thanks, you made my day!

944. Atheism isn't the final word

Comment #32392 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 1:53 am

Please double post. You need to take a minute to register at the site. Many good posts here can just be copied and pasted to the original site.

945. Atheism isn't the final word

Comment #32385 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 1:36 am

I just double posted my comment--trying to get in the habit of double posting. I encourage everyone here that wrote a comment, and the majority of them are excellent, just copy and paste it to the original site. Perhaps edit it a bit for profanity. You need to register at the site to comment, it takes a minute.

946. Atheism isn't the final word

Comment #32378 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 1:15 am

But saying the debate is over doesn't make it so.
_______

And implying that atheists' strong argument against faith based-beliefs is the same as atheists saying that the debate is over does not make the strong atheists' stance go away. The debate is not over because the religious side has not entered into it yet. And Feder's uninspiring, reguritated trite will play its little role in keeping the atheists holding open that debate door. The contradictions of religion and its cobwebby matrix of compelling lies will become more and more commonly accepted and these cobwebs which allow humanity to become entrapped, finally broken for good.

947. Irish poll shows parents no longer want to force religion on to children

Comment #32368 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 12:42 am

Terry Sanderson, president of the National Secular Society, said: "This is a very small step in the right direction, but it still seems beyond the imagination of most educators in Ireland – even the ones who recognise there are problems with religious influence – that a secular school system that requires pupils to leave their religion (if they have one) at home would be the answer."
________

I agree.

948. Kadra attacked in public

Comment #32364 by Logicel on April 17, 2007 at 12:27 am

Andreas, thanks for your informative post.

949. Kadra attacked in public

Comment #32257 by Logicel on April 16, 2007 at 1:07 pm

minstrel wrote: "I'm certainly not advocating female genital mutilation (I love female genitalia way too much for that!), but when denouncing gods or religions, we should take care not to toss the baby along with the bathwater. We may very well have adopted customs and rituals perpetuated by religion that conferred significant selection advantages without knowing it!"
________

Perhaps you are a woman, but I am guessing you are male. If so, women do not consider that the male love of their genitals should be the reason why they should not be sexually mutilated.

What is even more astonishing then the continuation of this health-diminishing, sexual-pleasure-negating acts, is that these barbaric practices have not decimated the female population, and not that they play some important advantages to the propagation of genes.

30 years ago, when I cataloged materials on female sexual mutilation at a NYC law library, I was shocked to find out that the majority of mutilations are done by women to women. And when asked some women why they mutilated other women, they replied that it was done to me, therefore other women need to have it done. Remember it was Ayaan Hirsi Ali's father that protected her from this brutal practice, and her grandmother who ensured that it got done in his absence.

950. The Age of Darwin

Comment #32251 by Logicel on April 16, 2007 at 12:28 pm

Fishpeddler, am I being telepathic here or do you really adore food?

Using spirituality to describe a positive state of being which is subjective though can be shared in part and perhaps can be confirmed by some evidence--brain scans can reveal which parts of the brain are being active when we are in various states of awareness, is problematic as this long sentence is, but it is late where I am and I am beat.

Have a nice dinner, Fishpeddler.