901. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #243548 by decius on September 6, 2008 at 6:44 am

Comment #243544 by Apathy personified

The fireworks, signs, excessive cheering, crying even and the 'rock star' way they are done is so over the top, false and most importantly, vacuous.

902. Opening minds

Comment #243540 by decius on September 6, 2008 at 5:53 am

I would like to hear HungarianElephant's opinion on this.

903. Opening minds

Comment #243537 by decius on September 6, 2008 at 5:41 am

Comment #243529 by AllanW

AllanW, I totally agree.

Couldn't undermining education be seen as a conspiratorial act against the public welfare? Aren't there laws protecting the public interest against conspiracies?
We need a new relentless and concerted effort to drive these people out of civil society.
Off the silk gloves, I say.

904. Opening minds

Comment #243528 by decius on September 6, 2008 at 5:25 am

Epeeist

Your beautiful ten-bob note comment has disappeared, so did one pretty crafty robertson-bashing of mine.

I am going to sue Josh.

905. Opening minds

Comment #243525 by decius on September 6, 2008 at 5:13 am

I think the problems are with the site, guys.

Some of my comments have disappeared, too, and if I open my personal list, I get different results through IE and Firefox . More comments are missing under IE, but with FF I can't access several corrupt thread pages.

906. Large Hadron Collider readies for world's biggest experiment

Comment #243386 by decius on September 5, 2008 at 3:07 pm

Comment #243385 by Oystein Elgaroy

Astounding.

He forgot to mention Kryptonite, though.

I particularly enjoyed:

our braneworld, which is a three-dimensional sub-universe

Hence, it is very easy to generate a gravitational wave - just shake your head.

907. Origins - The BIG Questions: 2008 Skeptics Society Conference

Comment #243382 by decius on September 5, 2008 at 2:42 pm

Comment #243378 by DiveMedic

Am I way off base here, or what?

908. Large Hadron Collider readies for world's biggest experiment

Comment #243375 by decius on September 5, 2008 at 2:22 pm

Comment #243366 by Oystein Elgaroy

They have one divine property, though: they have never been observed.

909. Atheism Tapes : Arthur Miller

Comment #243367 by decius on September 5, 2008 at 2:16 pm

Comment #243364 by Stafford Gordon

It's on youtube with all other episodes. Just google Jonathan Miller.

910. Large Hadron Collider readies for world's biggest experiment

Comment #243363 by decius on September 5, 2008 at 2:11 pm

Comment #243357 by Oystein Elgaroy

For technical reasons the particle that mediates gravity has to have zero mass and two units of spin. The Higgs boson is massive and has no spin

911. Sincerity no substitute for evidence

Comment #243194 by decius on September 5, 2008 at 9:20 am

NakedCelt

I was trying to post a link to a paper about the first double-blind study on echinacea, but it requires subscription.
Here is an article, though.

Being sick with a cold is nothing to sneeze at, but new research finds that taking the popular herbal remedy echinacea does nothing to treat or prevent it.

The federally funded study was what fans and foes of such substances say they have long needed rigorous, scientific testing. It found that patients who took an echinacea plant extract fared no better than those who took a dummy treatment.

"Our study ... adds to the accumulating evidence that suggests that the burden of proof should lie with those who advocate this treatment," wrote Dr. Ronald Turner of the University of Virginia School of Medicine, who led the study, which appeared in Thursday's New England Journal of Medicine.

Echinacea, or purple coneflower, is sold over-the-counter in pills, drops and lozenges. With reported annual sales of more than $300 million, Echinacea is one of the most popular medicinal herbs used by people to treat colds.

Several animal studies and small human trials have pointed to the possible benefit of the herb in preventing respiratory infections. However, one of largest studies involving 407 children in 2003, found that Echinacea failed to alleviate cold symptoms and even caused mild skin rashes in some cases.

In the newest experiment, researchers recruited 399 healthy patients who got one of three laboratory-made Echinacea plant extracts or a dummy preparation. The patients were then exposed to the cold virus and their symptoms were evaluated.

Scientists found no difference in infection rates between the groups who received the herb or placebo. About 90 percent in both groups wound up becoming infected. Symptoms like sneezing, runny noses and sore throat were also about the same, with more than half in both groups showing classic signs of a clinical cold.

The study was funded by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, part of the federal National Institutes of Health. Turner, the lead researcher, has consulted for various antibiotic makers.

In an accompanying editorial, Dr. Wallace Sampson, an emeritus clinical professor of medicine at Stanford University School of Medicine, questioned why the government is wasting tax dollars on funding alternative medicine studies, some of which have turned out to be nothing but snake oil.

"Research into implausible remedies rarely produces useful information," wrote Sampson, who was not connected to the study.

CBS News Correspondent Elizabeth Kaledin reports that many critics of the study are suggesting that the 300 mg dose used was too small and that at higher doses Echinacea can actually help.

Mark Blumenthal, executive director of the American Botanical Council, an independent group that studies herbs, said people should not dismiss echinacea as a cold remedy. Blumenthal pointed out that the extract used in the latest study was prepared in the lab and not sold in stores. He also added that the herb might work better if higher doses were used.

912. Sincerity no substitute for evidence

Comment #243181 by decius on September 5, 2008 at 8:45 am

Comment #242935 by NakedCelt

Thanks for your reply.

Please note that I provided some links, not just simple assertions.
They all reflect the scientific consensus and not authority opinion.
Forgive me, but I couldn't possibly copy and paste whole pages here. I think it would be frowned upon by the administration of the site and by the rightful owners of the pages.
You will still find those links in my previous comments.

The workings and evolution of the immune system are a very complex subject indeed, but you don't actually need to understand it in full to be aware of what the fallacious claims of the quacks are.
It's enough for the layperson to rely on evidence-based medicine and sceptical sites devoted to debunking dubious and fraudulent claims.

I suggest that whenever you are in doubt about a putative remedy, a fringe therapy or anything related to health, you paid a visit to Quackwatch and used their search engine to dig up the relevant articles. You could try "immune system" to test it.
Another great resource is this Blog, where scientific medical sceptics routinely debunk the most common myths and expose health-related frauds. In their archives you shall find a wealth of material written in a very accessible language. They also make an effort to teach how to spot pseudo-science and they demonstrate how critical thinking can protect you even if you are not deeply knowledgeable about a given subject.

Finally, there is this highly-entertaining and educational Podcast hosted by Dr. Novella, who also writes in the above-linked blog.
Although the show is chiefly about scientific scepticism, quackery is often the main topic.
Try a few episodes and you'll get hooked, I am sure.

Good luck and feel free to ask anything I might have left out.

913. Opening minds

Comment #243114 by decius on September 5, 2008 at 6:00 am

Laurie, PM pour vous.

914. Opening minds

Comment #243110 by decius on September 5, 2008 at 5:53 am

Comment #243107 by Laurie Fraser

Not really, Laurie. I am testing a piece of software that writes this and other things at the click of a button.

915. Opening minds

Comment #243101 by decius on September 5, 2008 at 5:35 am

Admirable. Bye.

916. Opening minds

Comment #243099 by decius on September 5, 2008 at 5:32 am

This would be the correct syntax, just put it between these brackets <> .


img height="15" width="15" title="Very Happy" alt=":-D" src="./forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif"/

917. Opening minds

Comment #243093 by decius on September 5, 2008 at 5:23 am

Titania

You are an awesome mum (for a lawyer, that is).

918. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #243090 by decius on September 5, 2008 at 5:16 am

Comment #242380 by jabber

I think you are right. I will venture further that he would have placed the Pig as metaphysical entity among his Idola Fori (Idols of the Marketplace).

928. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242374 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 3:29 pm

Yes, but would Francis Bacon argue in favour of the general concept of pig?

929. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242358 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 3:10 pm

Comment #242354 by jabber



I do not share your political views - it seems - but I do appreciate your very British sense of humour.

930. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242349 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 3:03 pm

Comment #242339 by jabber

NO the Royal Family are a tourist attraction

931. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242280 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 2:12 pm

Comment #242278 by JAMCAM87

Read my previous comment, please. I think it's the last of the previous page. Basically, I agree with what you just said about the lesser evil.

(I am Italian and live in Scandinavia. I don't vote in the American elections).

932. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242266 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 2:03 pm

Sciros

at the end of the day, I think we both agree that even Donald Duck would make a better president than Bush.
Which leaves you guys with having to evaluate the candidates based on their programmes, and not by contrasting them with the previous administration.
For the reasons demonstrated by Eddie Tabash and those highlighted by Sam Harris in this article, there should be no doubt left in the rational mind.
The non-religious voter must win their rightful repulsion and choose Obama for the greater good of the survival of the secular state.

933. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242247 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 1:47 pm

Comment #242240 by Sciros

George W Bush's religious convictions are hardly different but the problems with his administration were in fact NOT related to them.

934. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242238 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 1:40 pm

Comment #242236 by Ian Bamlett

Sure. Thank you.

935. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242229 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 1:33 pm

Comment #242226 by Ian Bamlett

Actually, if you don't confine yourself to quote-mining, you'll find that he is saying almost verbatim what I pointed out earlier in the conversation.

Needless to say, I find Obama's religious pandering repulsive. The suspicion that he is pandering, out of obvious necessity, and not quite as religious as he makes out, is somewhat comforting, however. But even if Obama were precisely as religious as he appears, he is not a Creationist, Rapture-Ready blockhead. Palin, by all appearances, seems to be one. This is a difference worth noting. Whatever you may think of his politics, Obama is very intelligent and reasonably well educated. Palin thinks the universe is 6000 years old. Unfortunately, I wrote my article before some of the most disturbing signs of her religious extremism came to my attention.

936. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242227 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 1:30 pm

Comment #242225 by jabber

Do you think that an anal fistula is an improvement over a rectal prolapse?

937. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242205 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 1:10 pm

SAM HARRIS has just published an addendum in response to criticism to this article.

938. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242190 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 1:00 pm

Comment #242186 by BrandySpears

Thanks. BTW, I loved your 'Bedroom Police' characterisation of the self-appointed moralisers. I will shamelessly appropriate it, with your permission.

939. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242182 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 12:52 pm

. Comment #242173 by al-rawandi

Adultery may be of concern to the adulterer's partner. All others who get involved without the latter's mandate are just fucking busybodies without a life of their own and afflicted by a medieval mentality. Actually, an Iron Age mentality, given the liberal attitude that we enjoy here since Roman times.

940. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242167 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 12:41 pm

Fanusi and Al

I am not suggesting that Clinton was a great president or a moral person.
However, his policies and presidency stand out three orders of magnitude above his successor's.

Al, Clinton shouldn't have withstood scrutiny of his sexual life in the first place. It's really nobody's fucking business but his own.

941. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242159 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 12:37 pm

Comment #242153 by Nairb

Chirac's case highlights a crucial difference of mentality. He openly had a string of mistresses, and no one dreamed to question his private life.
At least, in Europe, we know better than letting the busybodies dictate what is moral and what is not.

942. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242136 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 12:16 pm

Comment #242129 by Ian Bamlett

Ian, you seem to forget the different political agendas and the various degrees of fundamentalism.
The faith-based initiatives, the war on stem-cell research, the teach-the-controversy crap and so on. They all belong fair and square to the rethuglicans. Actually, they imported them unadulterated from the pulpit.

943. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242121 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 11:59 am

Comment #242119 by al-rawandi

Liver transplants are not performed on confirmed drunks.

944. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242105 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 11:42 am

Al

Sorry, I missed your question earlier, but I still don't understand what you mean. Bush appointees are indeed theofucks.

945. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242091 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 11:29 am

Ian Bamlett


Palin has specifically advocated creation science more than once. That is not ID, nor old-earth creationism. It is also compatible with her own religious denomination.

Creation science or scientific creationism is a movement within creationism which attempts to use scientific means to disprove the accepted scientific theories on the history of the Earth, cosmology and biological evolution and prove the Genesis account of creation.[1] Its most vocal proponents are fundamentalist and conservative Christians in the United States who seek to prove Biblical inerrancy and mount a challenge against the scientifically accepted theory of evolution.[2] Key concepts in creation science include the notion of "creation ex nihilo"; that mankind and other life on earth were created as unique, fixed baraminological kinds, and the notion that fossils found in geological strata are indicative of an historical flood which extended over the whole earth.[3] While creation science purports to be a true scientific challenge to the theory of evolution, often referred to by creation science proponents as Darwinism or as Darwinian evolution, it has never been recognized by or accepted within the scientific community as a valid scientific method of inquiry.

Until the 1970s, creation science drew little notice beyond the schools and congregations of conservative fundamental and evangelical Christians. The first creation science texts and curricula focused upon concepts derived from a literal interpretation of the Bible and were overtly religious in nature, most notably linking Noah's flood in Genesis to the geological and fossil record in a system termed flood geology. Creation science came to the attention of the wider national and international public and scientific community when its followers launched objections to the teaching of evolution in public schools and other venues, and successfully persuaded some school boards and lawmakers that creation science deserved equal consideration alongside Darwinian evolution in the science curriculum.

946. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242078 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 11:15 am

Diacanu

I missed that pearl of Teratornis's. Thanks for sharing, priceless.

947. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242031 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 10:30 am

Comment #242025 by Ian Bamlett

More than just a concern, actually. The true danger to have religion forced down your throat and the constitution reinterpreted in theocratic fashion.
Think about it. What bothers you the most, a bit more bureaucracy or a theocratic nosedive, possibly lasting decades?

948. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242024 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 10:24 am

Comment #242021 by phasmagigas

Tooooooo difficult! It requires a modicum of abstract thought.

949. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242018 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 10:16 am

Comment #242015 by Ian Bamlett

Ian, no beating. Just a question: did you watch the Tabash lecture available on this site?

950. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242009 by decius on September 3, 2008 at 10:00 am

Comment #242008 by Deedee

She has a solid foundation