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Comments by jimbob


51. How to abandon your God

Comment #139601 by jimbob on March 6, 2008 at 7:27 am

I wonder if the road to abandonment is paved with cherry pickers?

Richard very aptly pointed out that yahweh is "one of the nastiest characters in all of fiction," and it seems that all the modern flavors of religion ignore that sort of biblical reality.

Thus, my humble suggestion to aid our campaign for rationality, is to belabor that point. For example, Dobson's "focus on the family" very conveniently ignores the fact that Jesus wanted his disciples to turn away from their families. Thus, we could label them the "Ignore the anti-family Jesus" cherry pickers.

How about we start a move to label cherry picker categories? First prize for the best suggestion will be supper with annabanana. Second prize will be a free acupuncture session with epeeist!

While I'm on a roll with this theme, let's look a year ahead. February 12th 2009 will see the 200th birthdays of two great men -- Charles Darwin and Abe Lincoln.

Maybe we can use that birthday occasion to increase "abandonment" by pointing out that:

- Darwin showed the absurdity of the notion of "intelligent design."

- Lincoln showed the absurdity of the bible as a guide to morality in that the "holy book" is practically an owner's guide to perpetuating slavery!

52. Church exhumes Padre Pio

Comment #139589 by jimbob on March 6, 2008 at 7:02 am

Well, there seems to be some catholic ambivalence on the topic of digging up the dead. Scientists want to exhume Galileo, but the church is against it -- saying it would be "disrespectful."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7280148.stm

53. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #138578 by jimbob on March 4, 2008 at 2:48 pm

Evan Mecham, the impeached (1988) mormon nutjob of an Arizona governor died a couple of weeks ago. Wonder if the news of Richard's visit set off apoplexy?

For those who don't know who Ev was, he was the guy who (soon after his election) referred to black kids a "piccaninnies."

He was accused of racism as a result, and in response to criticisms about his views on the employment statistics for African Americans, he riposted "There's enough cotton picking jobs for all of them!"

The rest of his short tenure of governor was complete farce. Wonder if Richard will run into any of his cronies? ;-)

54. Hebrew University researcher: Moses was tripping at Mount Sinai

Comment #138571 by jimbob on March 4, 2008 at 2:36 pm

I must have been smoking the same stuff because I remember a vision in which Moses was alive and well, and appearing in ads for the NRA!

55. Church exhumes Padre Pio

Comment #138570 by jimbob on March 4, 2008 at 2:32 pm

Mr Luzzatto's claims, splashed across a full page of Corriere della Sera, Italy's best-selling daily, were furiously denounced by Pietro Siffi, president of the Catholic Anti-defamation League. The "presumed proofs are absolutely false," he said. "According to Catholic doctrine, canonisation involves the infallibility of the pope."


Bugger the evidence, it's the doctrine that counts!

....and as for "infallibility," how many popes were known to have had syphillis?

56. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #132995 by jimbob on February 25, 2008 at 1:54 pm

Why do you think people who believe in God (as I do) have a "need for a supernatural crutch?"


Well, how else can you produce a virgin birth?

57. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #132906 by jimbob on February 25, 2008 at 11:50 am

Yes, all 98 lbs (44 kg) of this little atheist is a threat to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness of all those theists out there.


Wanna do dinner annabanana? Somebody has to fatten you up!

;-)

58. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #132903 by jimbob on February 25, 2008 at 11:45 am

Chapther 5 of this "new" flrea:

The problem of wicked atheists:
Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot

Not much new I guess!

59. The coming religious peace

Comment #131818 by jimbob on February 23, 2008 at 11:31 am

American evangelicalism today is flexible, user-friendly, and market-driven. It has its core convictions: that a personal encounter with the risen Christ is necessary for salvation, and that the Greek and Hebrew scriptures offer a wholly trustworthy guide to God's will for humankind. But given those core convictions, this religious tradition seeks above all to be relevant, to be engaged, to reach sinners regardless of their culture, their ethnic background, or their politics.


Let me take a stab at a translation: Most American religion is a money-making industry. In exchange for money, the new dominant churches offer companionship, entertainment, and the promise of salvation.

Europe has pubs and cafes for the first two benefits, and centuries of religious bloodshed is the likely reason why the last has lost credence.

60. Moral thinking

Comment #131295 by jimbob on February 22, 2008 at 7:48 am

His best example of such self-sacrifice is warfare, an activity in which morality and immorality intersect in ways that have always been puzzlingâ€"and where liberals and conservatives often draw opposite conclusions about what is right and wrong. Paradoxically, that clash of views suggests that Dr Bowles and Dr Wilson really are on to something with the idea of functional morality. Perhaps they and their colleagues can eventually do what philosophers have never managed, and explain moral behaviour in an intellectually satisfying way.


Sure they are "on to something," but that "something" seems to have been explained many times by folks like Richard?

Since warfare is used as an example, I'll use it too as metaphor: What we need to do is establish "firing ascendancy" in the battle over the basis of morality. We need to rehearse the arguments and then go on the offensive with the view that religion (and other ideological dogmas) are generally obstacles to humanistic morality.

It's not that there is any shortage of examples to support that case!

61. Don't blame Islam for terrorism, expert says

Comment #130998 by jimbob on February 21, 2008 at 4:59 pm

Pape explains that what nearly all suicide terrorist attacks actually have in common is a specific secular and strategic goal: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from territory the terrorists consider their homeland. Religion, often used as a tool by terrorist organizations, aids in recruiting and in seeking aid from abroad, but is rarely the root cause.


To what extent is a belief that the martyrdom is a guaranteed route to paradise a root cause? Anybody know?

62. Don't blame Islam for terrorism, expert says

Comment #130921 by jimbob on February 21, 2008 at 1:45 pm

Fuller, 69, who has lived for several years with his wife, Prue, in Squamish, where he plans to remain, also doesn't let off the hook those atheists who like to blame religion, whether Islam or Christianity, for inciting much of the planet's violence.


Hey, I don't blame religion exclusively---it's dogmatic ideologies in general! The "principal horrors" of the last century or so have all been religious or quasi-religious in the sense that going against political dogmatic ideologies still gets you murdered for apostasy or heresy.

Frankly, Fuller is a doofus author for writing what amounts to an apology for islam.

63. Why do we believe in God? 2m study prays for answer

Comment #129727 by jimbob on February 19, 2008 at 2:08 pm

Researchers at the Ian Ramsey Centre for Science and Religion and the Centre for Anthropology and Mind in Oxford will use the cognitive science disciplines to develop "a scientific approach to why we believe in God and other issues around the nature and origin of religious belief".


I'm trying to stay serious because this reminds me of the old joke about the English, French, and Irish research teams independently studying the reasons why the end of a penis is wider than the shaft...

However, my real comment is that this seems analogous to the reasons why adults smoke: they are pressured to start when they are impressionable kids -- and then they can't quit.

What I like about the analogy the most is that the big tobacco companies and organized religion have SO much in common!

64. The argument from oranges

Comment #128236 by jimbob on February 16, 2008 at 3:29 pm

He brings contemplating one's navel to a new level!

65. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Madeline Bunting

Comment #126922 by jimbob on February 14, 2008 at 1:54 pm

As I listened to the debate unfold I couldn't help but think that Ms. Bunting is aptly named --- the image of bits of rag blowing in the wind being all too metaphorically obvious.

That aside, if it comes to labels, "postmodernist" would seem to be a good fit?

66. A Tyrannical Romance

Comment #126456 by jimbob on February 13, 2008 at 9:28 am

Which brings me to my tyrannical fantasy. I want to take a journey 68 million years back in time to see a Tyrannosaurus rex couple mating. What was it like? Did they trumpet and bellow and stamp their feet? Did they thrash their enormous tails? Did he bite her neck in rapture and exude a musky scent? Somehow, I imagine that when two T. rex got it on, the earth shook for miles around.


Best way to find out would be to re-create the scene. My suggestion would be to get Rosie O'Donnell and Larry the Cable Guy to give it a shot!

Any better suggestions? ;-)

67. Council pays psychic for exorcism

Comment #126452 by jimbob on February 13, 2008 at 9:23 am

Skeptic though I am, could Ms Hadwin be persuaded to give 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue a shot?

68. Murder plot against Danish cartoonist

Comment #126038 by jimbob on February 12, 2008 at 12:01 pm

Forget the cartoons, let's really piss them off by sending Valentine's Day gifts:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/02/12/saudi.valentine/index.html

69. What he wishes on us is an abomination

Comment #125296 by jimbob on February 11, 2008 at 7:53 am

Humble suggestion to the inhabitants of the UK -- the land of my birth and first 34 years:

D I S E S T A B L I S H !

If I was still living there I'd try to get Richard to start the campaign. Journalists such as Yasmin would be a force to be reckoned with.

70. Sharia fiasco

Comment #124965 by jimbob on February 10, 2008 at 2:07 pm

The Vatican??!! I think the Protestantism, not Catholicism, is the established religion of the U.S.A.


Couple of points Bonzai:

1. There is no "established" religion in the USA. Of course the predominant dogma is the prod flavor, but the good work of those such as Jefferson and Madison prevented anything from being officially established.

2. Of the nine US Supreme Court justices, five are catholic -- and the really devout 4/5 are Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, and Alito. None of those have ever shown any inclination to recuse themselves from cases in which their faith clearly biases their views.

71. Sharia fiasco

Comment #124925 by jimbob on February 10, 2008 at 12:26 pm

The idea that needs to be told to "piss off," is the idea that laws (and government) should be based in religious dogma. Sharia is, of course, particularly obnoxious, but so too is any level of "official" religion.

Folks in the UK need to become more familiar with the term "disestablishment," and folks in the USA need judges who give more credence to the constitution than to the vatican (Oops, sorry, forgot that religious bias on the bench doesn't qualify as "judicial activism!"

72. Battle of the Chambersburg billboards

Comment #124758 by jimbob on February 10, 2008 at 6:56 am

I'd humbly suggest a billboard with the question:

WHY DO THEISTS IGNORE # 9?

73. The Passion of 'Anonymous'

Comment #124386 by jimbob on February 9, 2008 at 9:59 am

It's spelled "$cientology."

74. Why Darwin matters

Comment #124384 by jimbob on February 9, 2008 at 9:55 am

Double Bass -- it's "The Autobiography of Charles Darwin" by Nora Barlow (1958).

I just checked Amazon.com, and they have a bunch of new and used (cheapest just over $5.00).

75. Why Darwin matters

Comment #124367 by jimbob on February 9, 2008 at 8:15 am

There appears to some evidence of a karma-like reattribution of my quote from Darwin's AUTObiography to Dawkins, I'll try to settle the confusion!

The quote came from Darwin himself. His original autobiography was censored by his family (primarily his wife) who were religious. His granddaughter Nora Barlow published the uncensored version (with annotations) in 1958. It's a good read, and worth buying.

In his autobiography Darwin recounts that he was "quite orthodox" when he sailed on the Beagle, and he goes on to detail how his discoveries changed that. He wrote:

"But I was very unwilling to give up my belief..."

And later:

"But I found it more and more difficult, with free scope given to my imagination, to invent evidence which would suffice to convince me. Thus disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate, but was at last complete. The rate was so slow that I felt no distress, and have never since doubted even for a single second that my conclusion was correct. I can indeed hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished.
And this is a damnable doctrine." (p. 72)

This quote doesn't quite have the color of the analogy of the monkey's instinctive fear of a snake that was in my earlier quote (see #17), but it certainly illuminates how scientific evidence led to the demise of dogma in the mind of this great naturalist.

76. Why Darwin matters

Comment #124145 by jimbob on February 8, 2008 at 1:20 pm

There remain deep questions, in physics and cosmology, that await their Darwin. Why are the laws of physics the way they are? Why are there laws at all? Why is there a universe at all? Once again, the lure of "design" is tempting. But we have the cautionary tale of Darwin before us. We've been through all that before. Darwin emboldens us - difficult as it is - to seek genuine explanations: explanations that explain more than they postulate.


Darwin himself took some time to think about how his discoveries changed his personal views of religion. It was not until 1958 that the process of his change became known, because, until then, the relevant parts of his autobiography had been censored by his family.

On p. 78 of the 1958 biography he recounts how his confidence in the idea of god:

"....has very gradually with many fluctuations become weaker."

With regard to the difficulty people have in shrugging off their religious indoctrination (my words, not his) he went on to observe:

"Nor must we overlook the probability of the constant inculcation in a belief in God on the minds of children producing so strong and perhaps an inherited effect on their brains not yet fully developed, that it would be as difficult for them to throw off their belief in God, as for a monkey to throw off its instinctive fear of a snake." (pp. 77-78).

Now that's a quote worth sharing on his birthday!

77. Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Comment #123561 by jimbob on February 7, 2008 at 10:53 am

Dr Williams argues that adopting parts of Islamic Sharia law would help maintain social cohesion.

For example, Muslims could choose to have marital disputes or financial matters dealt with in a Sharia court.


Yeah right! Under this scenario muslim men would choose the sharia option even if the women were against it.

Wonder if the archaicbishop will get invites to the public stonings?

78. Blasphemy

Comment #122527 by jimbob on February 5, 2008 at 12:05 pm

Well, I'm delighted that one of the horsemen has stepped forward!

At risk of belaboring comments I have recently made, I humbly suggest that this is a perfect time for all four horsemen to try to make a major news event of this nonsense.

The public have been indoctrinated into believing that religion is the source of morality -- so what better opportunity to disabuse them of that myth than now?

If examples such as executing people for blasphemy, or strapping bombs to mentally handicapped women don't underline the fact that yahweh-dogmas breed evil, I don't know what will.

Richard, Christopher, and Sam --- get together with Dan and call a press conference --- soon!

79. Some non-Christians feel left out of election

Comment #121803 by jimbob on February 4, 2008 at 7:32 am

As much as I hate to do it I will hold my nose and vote for McCain because he's a damn sight better than Billary or Hussein Obama.


So, do you think McCain will keep his word and nominate judges like Alito and Roberts?

80. Female Muslim medics 'disobey hygiene rules'

Comment #121800 by jimbob on February 4, 2008 at 7:24 am

Sounds like the UK government needs to hire Aayan Hirsi Ali as a consultant.

Just like government should be secular, so should the rules for employment -- and the safety of clients should override any supernatural dogmas when the rules are drafted.

81. Documents detail church coverup

Comment #120735 by jimbob on February 2, 2008 at 12:10 pm

Epeeist wrote:

As many people here are aware I am a fencing coach, my wife is a teacher. Both of us are therefore involved with children on a daily basis.

If either of us committed offences against these children we would be rightly convicted in a criminal court. If our employers colluded in our actions by covering them up they would also be criminally liable.


Ah, but you would be thrusting with a an atheist sword -- that's immoral!

82. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #120718 by jimbob on February 2, 2008 at 11:25 am

A very good friend of mine (a professor of physics) married a wonderful lady who grew up in iran (she is now a naturalized US citizen with a science Ph.D.). Shortly after the Iraq invasion she took him to Iran to meet her family. I was quite worried about his safety, and cautioned him accordingly.

When they returned, I asked him about the trip. In particular, I asked him what the Iranians typically said to him when they found out he was a US citizen.

His answer was that they almost invariably said: "Tell Mr Bush to free us next!"

I have not embellished this story, but I imagine some of the Hitch haters who have commented (above) will give me an earful anyway.

83. Documents detail church coverup

Comment #120706 by jimbob on February 2, 2008 at 11:04 am

Just imagine what would happen if, in all of these similar stories, the word "atheist" was there instead of "priest!"

84. Sentenced to death: Afghan who dared to read about women's rights

Comment #120395 by jimbob on February 1, 2008 at 3:06 pm

Looks like Bill Donogue of the catholic league is jealous:

http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1384

Wonder if he'd like to have Bill Mahar shot?

85. U.S.: 'Demonic' militants sent women to bomb markets in Iraq

Comment #120276 by jimbob on February 1, 2008 at 11:33 am

Please, please, please you four horsemen -- don't miss these chances to nail the morality issue.

Get together and issue a press release (or call a conference) to lay out just how yahweh-dogmas poison humanistic morality.

It's an opportunity to reach the majority who have never heard of your books, and it's a chance to really impact the myth of religion = morality!

86. Morality and the 'new atheism'

Comment #119569 by jimbob on January 31, 2008 at 4:59 pm

This would all be quite funny if it wasn't for the fact that yahweh-based dogmas (and others) are an obstacle to humanistic morality -- but the dogma book thumpers have everybody convinced that the opposite is true.

That's why I was hoping that our horsemen could use the Afghan reporter death sentence outrage to increase public realization of the (im)moral reality of dogmatism (and to help the reporter of course).

87. Sentenced to death: Afghan who dared to read about women's rights

Comment #119341 by jimbob on January 31, 2008 at 2:04 pm

GoneGolfing:

Your points are well taken, but....

- Many in the USA have never heard of those books.

- When Bush advocated for more "faith-based" programs in his state of the union address the other day, there were a lot of democrats applauding.

Thus, if our four gallant horsemen could get the media's attention on a topic such as this, it is my humble opinion that a lot more awareness would be raised.

A this-is-what-we-have-been-trying-to-tell-you opportunity?!

Might help save a journalist's live as well?

88. Sentenced to death: Afghan who dared to read about women's rights

Comment #119257 by jimbob on January 31, 2008 at 12:33 pm

First, I'm intrigued by the idea that the court in the Hague might have something to say about this. Should we be advocating in that direction?

Second, I'm disappointed by the lack of response to my earlier post (#39). Am I the only one who sees this as an opportunity to really mail the religion-equals-morality fallacy?

89. Sentenced to death: Afghan who dared to read about women's rights

Comment #118927 by jimbob on January 31, 2008 at 7:14 am

I'd like to humbly suggest a different idea:

My suggestion is that the "four horsemen" issue a joint statement asking for religions to desist from ignoring humanistic morality.

They should stress that this type of abomination is EXACTLY why zealous faith in dogmas threatens the future of us all.

They should call for all political leaders to condemn this immoral nonsense.

And they should invite all leaders of the major Yahweh cults to admit that literal adherence to their texts produces immoral actions of the most depraved kind.

Richard -- please consider taking the lead on this -- with some urgency if you can!

I invite others on this discussion board to echo this request if they feel it has merit.

90. New atheists or new anti-dogmatists?

Comment #117160 by jimbob on January 28, 2008 at 10:58 am

Third, it's a lot harder to defend DOGMA than it is to defend GOD.


I just noticed that DOGMA written backwards is AMGOD!

Holy flying teapots -- it must be a divine sign!

91. New atheists or new anti-dogmatists?

Comment #117071 by jimbob on January 28, 2008 at 7:52 am

The physicist Steven Weinberg has said that, left alone, "you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." If you change the word "religion" to "dogma" or "faith" you have my view - and the view I suspect people like Weinberg, Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens and Harris are really getting at.


Amen -- except I'd humbly suggest "dogmatic ideology" in place of "religion" in Weinberg's adage.

If I recollect accurately, I suggested something like this when I first joined this list. My view was (and is) that the ideologies of the likes of Stalin and Pol Pot are quasi-religious dogmas -- and the penalties for heresy and apostasy as the same as within any oppressive religion.

The other thing that had me chuckling was the recollection of my early days in the USA. When asked about my religion, I would reply that I was a devout anti-dogmatist. Invariably, I immediately got the impression that the askers thought this was an actual religion!

92. Ore. Court: Boy Has Say in Circumcision

Comment #116355 by jimbob on January 26, 2008 at 9:57 am

What happened to the that bit of the Hippocratic Oath that says "first do no harm"?


Nothing happened to it -- it was never there.

However, a common adage to medical professionals is primum non nocere.

93. Launch of 'Atheists in Foxholes' Book Anthology

Comment #116121 by jimbob on January 25, 2008 at 2:43 pm

As someone who sees arbitrary allegience to a flag as not much better that arbitrary allegience to a God, (both being, in almost all cases, a product of the geography of your birth), I can't understand the mindset of the military mind. I'll probably get slammed for that; and rightly so I suppose in many ways.


Well, I guess when my dad volunteered for the RAF in WWII, he did so because he something of an idea of the "mindset" of uncle Adolf.

When he recounted his experience of seeing Buchenwald a day after it was liberated, he certainly didn't seem to be concluding that his decision to volunteer was some sort of "arbitrary" thing.

Do you think George Scales would agree with you?

94. Launch of 'Atheists in Foxholes' Book Anthology

Comment #116061 by jimbob on January 25, 2008 at 12:38 pm

How about George Scales as the first entry?

95. Banned From Church

Comment #115436 by jimbob on January 24, 2008 at 7:40 am

Wonder if Ted Haggard ever "disciplined" members of his congregation?

;-)

96. Questions Delay Creationist Master's Degrees

Comment #112523 by jimbob on January 17, 2008 at 12:28 pm

First class in the creation science curriculum: "Oxymorons 101"

97. Ben Stein Bribing Schools to See His Anti-Evolution Movie 'Expelled'

Comment #112522 by jimbob on January 17, 2008 at 12:26 pm

Since when is evolution an "ideology?"

98. How Evolution REALLY Works

Comment #112519 by jimbob on January 17, 2008 at 12:21 pm

As I watched this I couldn't help thinking about how creationism has "evolved" to survive the environmental pressures (education) on it!

99. Huckabee Wants A 'Faith-based' Constitution

Comment #112069 by jimbob on January 16, 2008 at 9:17 am

This is precious! First, he makes it obvious that he doesn't know where Pakistan is -- and now he shows he's an ignoramus when it comes to history too!

What an irony when a BAPTIST wants to change the constitution. Quick, somebody send him a copy of the correspondence between Jefferson and the Danbury Baptists!

100. George Scales, War Hero and Generous Friend of RDFRS

Comment #111410 by jimbob on January 14, 2008 at 2:29 pm

George -- thanks for what you did for the cause of freedom in the 1940s -- and thanks for what you are doing for the same cause now!

Your back may be ailing, but what a pity many of our contemporary "leaders" don't have half your backbone!

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