51. Richard Dawkins and the "new atheists" come to America

Comment #8300 by Jacob on November 20, 2006 at 8:38 pm

So the criteria for everyone else is slim to none but evidently we need fingerprints and photo ID of Christ to prove he actully lived? And you say it's unreasonable to have a belief in God when you make the criteria practically impossible. No matter what evidence would come out it wouldn't be enough it seems like. Again, from every site and news source I have heard from NO ONE in the archaeological or in historical documentation disbelives Christ actually lived. They may not belive He was God, but the fact that He was actually alive hasn't been brought up into question. And why is that odd that other historians didn't take note? He was an obscure carpenter from a small town of Nazareth. Not even His own people, the Jews accepted Him because He went against what they taught. Even if other historians took note of Him, would it change your opinion? Like I said earlier...it's always one more thing. Good archaelogical and historical documentation isn't good enough? Well considering they didn't have video cameras or digital cameras back then, I don't think you're going to get what you want because its unreasonable.

52. Richard Dawkins and the "new atheists" come to America

Comment #8292 by Jacob on November 20, 2006 at 8:25 pm

"Now who's making assumptions? I was a Christian for many years. I was active in my church and even taught Sunday School, Sang in the choir, Played music during church and Sunday school worship services, was a senior member of our Boy's Brigade troop, acted as a leader at Christian 'Summer Camps' and more."

Sir, you're making assumptions if you are saying Jesus never claimed to be God. It is all over the New Testament so what exactly did you teach? And you still didn't answer my question. Why would Jesus have been killed then? He was murdered for blashpemy. "Again the high priest asked him, 'Are you the Christ,the Son of the Blessed One?' 'I am,' said Jesus. 'And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.'" That sure sounds like He is claiming a deity. Which is why he went on to be crucified.

"To set the record straight there are four Gospels written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all who are testimony to the words of Christ. Not anonymous as you claimed"

Please look at my other comment for this.

"They are my friends, but I'm not everyday telling them they are going to burn in hell for not following Christ."

Sir, I've grown up in a Free Methodist church. My mother, father, grandfather, and uncle are are pastors and raised me up in the faith so I do know about my beliefs. I do know how to witness so don't start to call that into question. I already had to explain that earlier in a comment. I do tell them but i don't CONSTANTLY.

"Oh really? Jesus taught more about Hell than anyone else in the New Testament. Here is a list of verses which refer to Hell in the New Testament. Supposedly ,all these verses were written under the inspiration of the 'holy spirit'. The list is not comprehensive, it's just what I could find in about 10 minutes of searching. For those of you not interested, just skip past them."

Compared to the rest of his ministry, hell was not the main priority on his list AT ALL which you would agree. It pales in comparsion to other things he speaks on such as the poor, loving God, and being kind to you brothers. So in His ministry, he barely spoke of hell compared to other topics. You would agree I'm sure and if not, try typing in some words like love and see the results. Jesus was not focused on hell nearly as much as he was on love and God the father, and you know this since you used to teach.

"I said that if you don't believe in Hellfire, you are a heretic."

This is what you said, "If you don't agree that all non-Christians will be condemned to an eternity of suffering in a fiery Hell, then you're not a Christian you are a HERETIC." And you're telling me that in the context of what you responded to me that this is not implying me as being a heretic? You certaintly could of fooled me. I'm sorry if I rusehd to that conclusion, but please watch how you word things because it doesn't look how you evidently meant it.

"No he wasn't.
Please read the following verses.
Matt 7:[21] "Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [22] On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' [23] And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'"

I'm sorry, I meant to say Pharisee type...as in their type not specifically talking directly to them. I should've worded it differetly and I'm sorry. But my point still stands. He is referring to people who seem "holier than thou" when in fact they didn't know Christ as their personal savior. This is why he would say "I never knew you."

"Given the foregoing verses, I don't know how you could."

What exactly is this supposed to mean sir? Are you questioning whether I am saved or not? I'm not sure what your trying to do by saying that, but it really doesn't make sense to me.

53. Richard Dawkins and the "new atheists" come to America

Comment #8283 by Jacob on November 20, 2006 at 7:57 pm

"A simple Google search will show that the book of Mark was written first somewhat after 70AD and then copiously copied by Matthew, Luke and John to varying degrees - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were of course not real people - even your minister/pastor/priest will confirm that."

I'm not sure what pastors you have spoken with, but that goes against everyone of them I would talk to. Luke was a historian who wrote his Gospel and traveled with the apostle Paul and wrote the book of Acts. Matthew was a disciple of Jesus and so was John. Again I'm not too sure who you've talked to that denies they existed.

This brings me to something that is utterly amazing. Among the works of classical writers who are contemporaries of Christ, no one EVER questions the existence of these secular authors or validity of their writings. No one ever asks, "How do we know there was a Socrates? Did he actually exist?" Yet there is FAR less documentary evidence for his existence and other Greek writers than there is for Jesus Christ. For example, Aristotle is dated to about 345 B.C. and the earliest known manuscript of his is from 1,400 yrs after he lived! Paul, James, and the Gospel writers lived from A.D. 20-100 and the earliest known manuscripts we have found are only 70 years after they had lived! Why must the Bible's historical accuracy ALWAYS come under question when everyone else gets a free pass? Just because of the claims the Bible makes most people seem to throw ALL of it out and think it has absolutely no credibility.

54. Richard Dawkins and the "new atheists" come to America

Comment #8252 by Jacob on November 20, 2006 at 6:02 pm

If you don't read or study the Bible then don't make claims and assumptions about it without any back up for it. Christ said he is the only way to the Father and that was taken down by all four Gospel authors. Why do you think He was murdered? It was for making "blasphemous" claims about his deity. He called Himself God and the Jewish leaders condemned Him to death for this. And it was all taken down by an anonymous author? To set the record straight there are four Gospels written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all who are testimony to the words of Christ. Not anonymous as you claimed.

And I don't appreciate you taking my words out of context. I said that I don't condemn my friends who don't believe in my faith, not that I don't believe what the Bible says. They are my friends, but I'm not everyday telling them they are going to burn in hell for not following Christ. That is what we call a turn off! For example, if I wanted to talk to you about Christ but I started in with talking about Hell and fire and stayed on that 24/7, would you be receptive? And just look at who Jesus surrunded Himself with! Tax collectors, prostitutes, lepors, and the outcasts of society because He loves all, not just those who believe in Him. Why should I be any different and love only those who agree with my beliefs? Even Christ himself did not speak of hell that often.

Why are you trying to use the Scriptures I read everyday to attempt to "discredit" what I say? I have not attacked anyone or anything brought up here, yet you pounce on me when given an oppurtunity and imply I am a heretic.

And we do have security in Christianity. You can't say that in every other religion. All other religions have to be "good" their whole lives and hope they did enough good to gain heaven. We have Christ! He is our way to heaven! Faith and love in Him and acceptness of what He did for us is what gets us eternal security. Christ was talking about the Pharisees and Saducees, the types of people who went around with the "holier than thou" attitude, not all Christians in general. And for the record, I sleep great every night!

55. Richard Dawkins and the "new atheists" come to America

Comment #8217 by Jacob on November 20, 2006 at 4:28 pm

I'm sorry, I do get what you're saying now. You're right, you don't have a say in your creation and you didn't have a choice to be born. But why is that something to be upset about? God gives us all the gift of life and we get to choose what to do with it. God does not want us to perish. This is why he has entered our world in Jesus Christ, so he could have a close, personal, loving relationship with us. You do have the free will to choose or reject Him. And yes, there is a choice to be made. There are ALWAYS choices. You even said you didn't have a say in your creation implying the fact that you would have liked to choose between living or not existing. Choice is a constant...it will always be here. And You're right...some people "got it made" to be born to a family of believers. Some can be born to atheists. But both people still have to CHOOSE what they will do with their lives. As a matter of fact, our associate pastor was born to a family of non-believers and his mother died without ever coming to faith in Christ. So to answer you're question about my family, if they aren't believers then they aren't believers. They can't be "saved" because of my faith. I'm not a hypocrite...if they don't believe then they don't believe. Every person is judged by their choices, not someone elses. You can't use a background as an excuse. For example, that would be like me murdering someone then blaming it on a bad childhood cause of the family I was born into. You have to take responsiblity for your own choices. Why is the Bible such nonsense in your opinion? And I'm not 100% sure what the nature question means...if nature ran by itself without any design would it be more beautiful than if it had be created by God? If so then I'd imagine not...when God originally created the earth everything was wonderfully made without decay or anything so it would have been a utopia. Hope I answered what I could to shed some light on what the Bible says!

56. Richard Dawkins and the "new atheists" come to America

Comment #8188 by Jacob on November 20, 2006 at 3:29 pm

God is not "playing games" with us. In the Bible it says "For God so loved the world he gave His only begotten Son that whosoever belives in Him will not perish but will have eternal life". His coming to earth to die for our sins isn't a game to us, its the plan for our salvation. And no there are no close calls. You either have faith in Christ or you don't. This is what makes Christianity different among all major religions. You can't "work" your way into heaven. Good works get you salvation in other belief systems, but no so in the Christian faith. This is the whole reason Christ died, to make heaven open to anyone who chooses Him because good works aren't enough. But of course, its not a "I'm saved now I can do whatever" situation. Christ calls us to live a godly life, not to continue in your sinful ways. We are called to be a new creation in Jesus Christ, that's why we have the term "born again".

57. Richard Dawkins and the "new atheists" come to America

Comment #7334 by Jacob on November 18, 2006 at 8:55 am

"You dismiss every other religion as being false except for the one that you happen to follow- which, by the luckiest series of accidents, happens to be more dominant than the others. Yes, I'm sure there are certain ideas about other faiths that you embrace. But my point still stands- you reject every other religion except for your own. You know what it's like to disbelieve in something, yet you find it hard to understand why atheists disbelieve in your own faith."

Christians aren't being narrowminded. If the Bible said, "Jesus is one of many ways to God" than we would be in agreement with it, BUT it doesn't say that. Jesus said he is the only way to heaven. HE makes that claim and He was the one that said it, not the Christians. Basically, what you seem to want is for Christians to say that Jesus was lying and He's not the only way to heaven. He said He is the only way, but you want us to reject that one part of the Bible. But if He is wrong and a liar, why follow Him? His whole ministry would be futile then if he is a hypocrite and lies. Do you see my point? We don't "reject" all other religions...you seem to think we are full of hate and anymosity towards anyone who doesn't believe what we believe which is totally false. I have many friends who go against my beliefs and I love them all the same, and contrary to popular belief, I don't condemn them to fires of hell for not following my faith. It's amazing how people can judge all Christian's on the actions of some.

58. Richard Dawkins and the "new atheists" come to America

Comment #7185 by Jacob on November 17, 2006 at 2:50 pm

"In other words, if you believe in a fiction you can escape any personal responsibility for your own evil deeds. And you don't understand why we have a problem with this?"

You don't seem to get the basis of Christianity. We aren't escaping responsiblity, we are accepting it. We realize that we are imperfect and need a Savior. Jesus died for us so that we could become a new person in Him. We must confess we have sinned and that we need Him in our life. We don't just confess, get saved, then that's it. You are to strive to live a life like Christ, hence the name Christian which means "Christ-like". And the Bible has CLEAR warnings against sinning after you have become saved just cause you think you can ask for repentance again while knowing full well what your doing is wrong. Christianity is not a cop out of responsibility, and that's very clear.