51. US 'doomed' if creationist president elected: scientists

Comment #108715 by arogop on January 7, 2008 at 1:07 pm

A couple of thoughts:

Chicken Little seems to have rubbed off onto to many people these days.

Each time Bush ran for office we kept hearing about how people were going to move to another country. I say that if you don't like how things are set up then either work productively to change it, or stop yapping and move already. (BTW I helped put Bush in office twice and didn't see anyone move to Canada as a result.)

Quill- It's not exactly the "old school industrialists" that are getting feed up with the religious right. It's the Libertarian and Fiscal Conservatives that are starting to wake up. I myself was ok with dealing with some of the minor stupidities that resulted from the "big tent" policies, but when Bush's policies that were designed for our side of the party were killed by the Christian right in '05 I decided enough was enough.

52. The battle of the butterflies and the ants

Comment #108652 by arogop on January 7, 2008 at 11:43 am

Does anyone know if these butterflies can live without ants around?

53. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107494 by arogop on January 4, 2008 at 3:58 pm

I recall American voters saying how Dubya seemed like a 'nice' and 'honorable' southern gentlemen back during the 2000 election campaign......

54. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107493 by arogop on January 4, 2008 at 3:57 pm

If this nut job gets in we are all in bigger trouble than ever in the history of this nation. If Huckabee gets nominated I will be forced to vote democrat

55. The religiosity test: Doubters need not apply

Comment #107451 by arogop on January 4, 2008 at 2:34 pm

Obama will be the next president of the United States, so do not despair our friends across the pond.

56. Let us kill all the teddy bears

Comment #95105 by arogop on December 7, 2007 at 11:03 am

I would like to add that L. Ron Hubbard may be a "nutball hack", but he also has a great imagination. I grew up reading his SCIFI books. This religion thing of his shows that he is also a good capitalist.

I almost wish that I could create a religion that made me that much money. Almost...

57. Fear of censure deflects The Golden Compas

Comment #93898 by arogop on December 4, 2007 at 12:25 pm

74. Comment #93855 by clodhopper

Do you want the one with rusty steel armour lubed with seal blubber or the one with the shiny gold plate armour?

58. Why Science Can't Save the Republican Party

Comment #93866 by arogop on December 4, 2007 at 10:58 am

NormanDoering-

I am leaning to Rudy this upcoming primaries. Can you point out someone on my side that better represents me? You should know enough about me by now.

59. Why Science Can't Save the Republican Party

Comment #93863 by arogop on December 4, 2007 at 10:54 am

Well you definitely stated engaging me in a constructive conversation. Now if we can get you to put down the insults, maybe we can accomplish something.

As far as educating the fundies let me point out that this site is full of converted fundies. Very few people are born atheist and allowed to choose their own religion as I was.

I would also like to point out that the atheist message is not getting out. Wisconsin has one of the largest collections of biochemist in the world (due to the UW and the research parks) and yet it is not ok for them to embrace Atheism. We are also home to one of the most popular freedom from religion groups around. Yet, I know very little about them and have only heard bad things about them.

Lets face it. We (you and I) have a PR problem with this message that we are trying to get out. That why this OUT campaign I think needs to get kick into gear so that young minds do not shut out the idea that there is something else out there that makes sence. We need to make sure that people know there are resources out there when they have doubts, and they all have doubts from time to time. Your site does contribute to that. Of course you will pander to the other side and I will pander to my side. Then we can fight about things that really matter like "does it taste great or is it less filling".

Yes, I mostly vote straight ticket. In Wisconsin we do have a tradition to split tickets, but that usually is not me. I also have voted 100% of the time. No matter what is on the ballot. The primaries are my battle ground.

Yes, I was a little slow waking up to the threat of the Christian Wrong. Sorry, better late than never. Can I get absolution? Its just they never posed as much as a problem to my core beliefs than they are starting to do now… in progressive Wisconsin.

Of course I do remember getting kicked out of my Public High School for being Amoral and Unchristian. Funny huh?

It sounds like you are without hope. Do you need a hug? I still believe, and as long as I do there is still hope.

60. Fear of censure deflects The Golden Compas

Comment #93852 by arogop on December 4, 2007 at 10:16 am

My Daemon is a a Tiger named Kyana. I think its a heavanly sign!!

61. Fear of censure deflects The Golden Compas

Comment #93847 by arogop on December 4, 2007 at 10:02 am

2, 1, 5 The two should be a 3 but its been so long since I have read fantasy that I enjoyed it too much. I have only read the first book though.

And Brian, Legolas does want to blow the horn. How dare you depict him that way!

Yes I agree that Lyra was vile and a poor role model. Little Brat!

Asimov all the way. Loved L.Ron, very active imagination. You have to be in order to create a new religion. The Mission Earth books were great.

62. Why Science Can't Save the Republican Party

Comment #93831 by arogop on December 4, 2007 at 9:20 am

26. Comment #93697 by briancoughlanworldcitizen

Yes, Wisconsin is the cheese state. Do you think that's a coincidence?

Why can't the Republican Party be the vehicle to bring about those changes? There is a governor in California that believes it too. Of course they also think they are the "new" cheese state. I am sensing a cheese conspiracy.

What you need to understand is that from our advantage point, we can provide many of the same outcomes, just more responsibly and at a realistic cost. All we need to do is to throw off the Fundys and send them back to the other side. Or better yet, educate them, so that they can join us too. If that makes me delusional, then so be it, and pass the cheese.

If we go with the premise that I love Capitalism and free markets, can anyone show me how those beliefs are better represented by the modern group of Democrats? Or is that not possible?

Make me see the light!

63. Why Science Can't Save the Republican Party

Comment #93817 by arogop on December 4, 2007 at 9:01 am

25. Comment #93695 by eric.malitz

Eric- Very good question. Let me try to address it from my perspective.

Nobody wants dirty water, air, soil, etc. The question comes down to how important it is to you and what you are willing to spend on it. You also need to determine how clean is clean. Finally you need to address how good is the science backing up our concerns.

Let's take the city water supply. I live in Wisconsin and we have more than anyone in the world with the exception of maybe Michigan or Ontario. (The water utility spends more money than they take in, I would like to see them charge more to support their operations, but we do need to make sure clean water is affordable to everyone.) We treat and filter the water that we deliver. If we are willing to spend the money on it we can use reverse osmosis techniques and remove everything. I would say that is wasteful. However, with actual science and a little common sense we can say that we would like to keep certain levels of bacteria, heavy metals, etc to a certain Parts Per Million level.

As a Republican I believe that we should spend enough money on cleaning our water to keep things at a safe level. If actual scientific data says we should have a lower level of pollutants then let's do it. That's the cost of doing business and living where we want too. I do not think we should crash our economy and spend willy nilly on things that are unproven. If we have concerns then lets get the facts out, label things properly, and let people make educated choices.

I also believe that people should take responsibility for their own lives. If we tell you that something is bad for you then you can make your own choice about whether or not to engage in that risky type of behavior.

With the water example, if we think that farm run off is polluting our drinking water then we need to get out the facts that we know, admit what we do not, and offer incentives to the farmer to change his practices until we know for sure. Then, if we can prove the problem, let's legislate all future actions that have not begun and start working with the "grandfathered" actions to bring them to an end.

I hope that provides some insight in how I address individual situations.

I live in Wisconsin, we claim to have founded the progressive movement. Our last Republican governor, Tommy Thompson, believed very strongly in conserving land and put more land under state protection than any other that I can get good data for. I support that. As a Native Wisconsin Orchid hunter I can appreciate those efforts. However he did spend a little too much money. I would like to have seen him join forces with some liberal groups to raise private funds to do this, but alas his pride did not let him do it.

I support the push to make all new vehicles on the road flex fuel vehicles. (I drive two flex fuel vehicles.) This can by us time on the oil issue, give consumers a choice, support Local Farmers, and start the ball rolling. I think we should spend federal and state money to get this moving. We should spend money on the hydrogen issue as well, but let's try to create incentives to get the private sector to soak up the costs.

Species. Biodiversity is a precious resource. We should protect it. End whale hunting permanently. Stop the spread of invasive species (garlic mustard etc.), thus reducing the stress on native populations.

I would be happy to share any other beliefs you want me too. Just ask… nicely.

Andrew

PS Because of the hunting issue we have not always been backwards on the conservation issues. Remember President Theodore Roosevelt.

64. Why Science Can't Save the Republican Party

Comment #93784 by arogop on December 4, 2007 at 8:03 am

24. Comment #93651 by NormanDoering

That's it. I waited all day for that feeble answer. I thought you were smart. I guess I assumed wrong.

Turns out you wanted a shameless plug for your website, which is not all that great. I do really like your skull graphic though. My daughter thinks it's neat.

Again, you are falling into the trap that weakens your arguments. When attacking an idea do not use large category "generic" labels. When you understand that you can start to dissect and address the specific issues that you want to, and you may actually be able to win some arguments with me.

Let me teach you about the Republican Party. We learn a very valuable lesson from the Democrats a number of decades ago. In order to win we needed coalitions. We needed to have a large number of fragmented groups come together and push for specific leadership positions. It started from my understanding with Reagan. Remember his 11th commandment.

The problem now is that with our big tent policy we have people that do not necessary subscribe to the traditional core beliefs of the party actually running it. Read in those with a strong religious bent. It does also appear to be happening with the Democrats as well just not as effectively, but your time is also coming. This new breed of power hungry fundamentalists are not going away easily.

In SCI AM I read a piece by Dawkins. It is material that I had not been exposed to before. I read his book TGD and went from a non practicing Atheist to a practicing Atheist. Which is why I am here.

You do not have to welcome me with open arms; I am not that kind of guy. But you should use me to understand better what is going on out there so we can mobilize against them, together. You would be much more successful to have an old line Republican working with you from inside of my party. (hopefully I can shed them all off onto you) :)

Andrew

65. Why Science Can't Save the Republican Party

Comment #93604 by arogop on December 3, 2007 at 5:38 pm

I quiver with anticipation. Now keep in mind how stupid I am. You may have to explain your superior topics to me slowly.

A simple study of modern history in the US does not support the concept that Dems are more open to free trade and Capitalism than the Reps. Fortunately there are only a handful of people who are anti-Capitalism. However most of then are associated with the Labor movement in the US.

Andrew
"Whose shovel is getting dull"

66. Why Science Can't Save the Republican Party

Comment #93587 by arogop on December 3, 2007 at 2:53 pm

So I guess you are saying that Capitalism is stupid. That Libertarian beliefs are also stupid. Thanks for your thoughtful insight. I will cherish your wisdom.

Andrew

67. Why Science Can't Save the Republican Party

Comment #93580 by arogop on December 3, 2007 at 2:32 pm

Norman- I find your writing style interesting. It reminds me of the loud mouth bully on the playground who taunts and teases people in front of his friends cause he thinks it makes him cool.

Are you overcompensating for something?

68. Why Science Can't Save the Republican Party

Comment #93576 by arogop on December 3, 2007 at 2:20 pm

16. Comment #93555 by NormanDoering

Your courtesy to me is just overwhelming.

In the two party system (I will assume you know what that means) those who vote for one issue and only one issue will usually be disappointed.

The groups of people I have listed understand this and vote Republican because it is the party that best represents their core beliefs. Their group label comes in play to show where they differ.

I have explained before and will review for you again. I am a Republican and tend to vote Republican because of the following beliefs. The higher the ranking the more important.

1. I support Capitalism and free markets. In my opinion, this is the fastest way to bring about advancement in technology and to improve the wealth effect for everyone. I do believe in some regulation of said "free markets". Pure Capitalism will not work. We are not Ferengy.

2. I believe that less Government is better. I prefer that the tax base for the federal government be only large enough to support the basic obligations of the Constitution.

3. I believe in preserving the greatest number of freedoms for individuals.

Yes, I believe that my party has strayed from my core beliefs, yet it still represents me better than the alternative. I do my political fighting in the primaries.

These days the biggest opponent inside of "my party" is the religious fundamentalist. It used to be that we could ignore them and "live and let live".

But of course you already know that since you are so much smarter than me.

69. Banishing the Green-Eyed Monster

Comment #93564 by arogop on December 3, 2007 at 1:49 pm

350. Comment #93556 by Logician

I am glad you see it my way. ;)

You can live your life your way, and I mine, and we will not spend any tax dollars on the issue.

Now let go drink and have fun!

70. Why Science Can't Save the Republican Party

Comment #93537 by arogop on December 3, 2007 at 12:25 pm

14. Comment #93532 by NormanDoering

"I would like to point out that that this makes arogop even stupider than a theist. It might be okay to have been a Republican, but it's not okay to be one now."

--------------------------

Thank you for that very kind statement. And people wonder why Republicans have been able to win so many elections with questionable candidates. Its called the "big tent".

"The Republicans have betrayed every principal of old fashioned conservatism they espoused."

An excellent example of what I am talking about. Do you lump in the Log Cabin Republicans, Rockefeller Republicans, Libertarian Republicans, Kemp Republicans, etc. with your broad statements.

Would you like to actually win the atheist argument, or would you like to go back to being ignored next election too?

71. Why Science Can't Save the Republican Party

Comment #93523 by arogop on December 3, 2007 at 11:10 am

I would like to point out that when we attack a label, like Republican, we tend lose that argument.

Not all Republicans are theists. Not all Republican oppose stem cell research. Not all Republicans fear Science and Reason. When you lump us all together you truly show ignorance.

Attack issues and ideas, not labels.

I am an atheist-Republican. I support science.

Can you imagine how stupid I would sound if I said that the members of this site are a bunch of Birkenstock wearing, narrow minded, left wing whackos! I would be wrong. (on the last two ;) )

72. Banishing the Green-Eyed Monster

Comment #93513 by arogop on December 3, 2007 at 10:21 am

253. Comment #92649 by Logician on December 1, 2007 at 3:17 am

7. People retain ownership over their own bodies. Period. Does not matter if you are male or female.

8. A traditional marriage contract between two people binds those two people into one person, then both bodies are the possession of each other by contract.

""Your obvious confusion is WHY RD HAS to get this crap out into the open. "People retain ownership over their own bodies." "...both bodies are the possession of each other by contract." Look, dude, either one or the other: you are an independent entity even in marriage or you are the chattel of your spouse, not BOTH.""
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the confusion is yours. With point 8 I am stating that when two people make vows to become "one person" that they are agreeing to join together and thus are sharing responsibility and ownership with each other.

If that does not work for you, then do not enter into that type of agreement. My wife and I have. It works for us.

I am not suggesting in any way that we impose my morality onto others.

-------------------------------------------------------------

""The confusion in most of these posts is most clearly exemplified in yours and it is exactly what RD was getting at: we need to realize that marriage, like religion, is NOT a natural imperative. Marriage, like religion, is ENTIRELY human constructed and therefore subject to scrutiny, criticism, and change.""

---------------------------------------


Of course. You only have a problem with my post because you are reading into it. My wife and I have entered into a "human constructed" contract. As most, if not all, contracts are.

--------------------------------------------------

""WHY do you feel two people who love each other should get married? ""

--------------------------------------------------

Because we decided that as consenting adults that that is what we wanted to do.

73. Banishing the Green-Eyed Monster

Comment #92487 by arogop on November 30, 2007 at 3:54 pm

Wow, That was a lot to read through. My thoughts:

1. Original article poorly written and confusing. I really like DR. DAWKINS, but even as smart as I am, he writes at a comprehension level above me and most of the world. Sam Harris's LTCN was a much easier to understand book.

2. The clarification from Dr. Dawkins was great. Thanks!

3. Sometimes when you have something to say it's good to get it out and then tweak it till you get it right. I do this by talking to myself. Maybe RD does this through this forum. Can we expect a new book?

4. Marriages should be open between the consenting parties. We need to talk. If we want to have an "open marriage" then that needs to be upfront. Honesty.

5. What consenting adults do in private is their business.

6. The Whitehouse is not private. It's my house! You give up certain rights when you become president. You want to have sex there, then do it in the Lincoln bedroom. NOT IN MY OFFICE. Ronald Reagan never took his jacket in the Oval Office out of respect. I respect that.

7. People retain ownership over their own bodies. Period. Does not matter if you are male or female.

8. A traditional marriage contract between two people binds those two people into one person, then both bodies are the possession of each other by contract.

9. People can enter into any contract that they want with another person. But contracts are contracts. We have courts to enforce contract in order to have a orderly society.

10. You can not lie under oath. Just because you should not be there does not mean you can lie. Christians believe that lying can be ok. Not me and not for my girls. The strength of Science is rooted in truth, fact, and the ability to challenge said facts and truths.

I love this Forum.

74. Mitt the Mormon

Comment #92389 by arogop on November 30, 2007 at 12:08 pm

60. Comment #91614 by USA_Limey

"But then, I am rather liberal libertarian. ;-P"

I would be a conservative libertarian and thus fall into the Republican camp.

On an earlier point, Please vote in the Republican primary!! Lets start casting votes against those who are the most religious. In my state (Wisconsin) we can cross over whenever we want to vote for the other side. If whoever you want to support is going to win then crossover and vote against someone.

Andrew

75. Schools should put faith in science

Comment #92356 by arogop on November 30, 2007 at 10:42 am

"If it were made of rubber and filled with air, it would make a wonderful beach toy."

Awesome.

Great article. Very well written.

76. Papal encyclical attacks atheism, lauds hope

Comment #92347 by arogop on November 30, 2007 at 10:23 am

5. Comment #92320 by room101

"Really? I thought teddy bears were the problem."

Its not the teady bear, but that fact we make a symbol out of it by giving it a name.

All kidding aside, this pope sucks compared to the last one who just sucked a little less. Of course when the Rapture comes we will get rid of all of them!!

77. Poll finds more Americans believe in devil than Darwin

Comment #92339 by arogop on November 30, 2007 at 10:11 am

11. Comment #92313 by bruce on November 30, 2007 at 9:13 am

USA! USA! #1! #1!

----------------------

When I read this I blew snot on my computer!! Always good to number one.

For those of us in the US:

If you do not like what you saw in the Republican Primary then please help us all by voting in the Republican primary and make sure that the "sky fairy lovers" do not make it through. There are candidates out there that are not as bad.

Andrew
"Atheist Republican"

78. Boy dies of leukemia after refusing treatment for religious reasons

Comment #92330 by arogop on November 30, 2007 at 9:56 am

Appalling incident.

However, in my opinion, when a judge makes the determination that he is an adult then the decision is up to him. I do not think suicide should be illegal. Rare, and we should reach out to these people, but still legal.

I hope then when I am old and unable to go on I have sound minded family at my side to help guide my decision. I also hope that I am allowed to do whatever I decide is right with the advice of my family and doctor.

Andrew

79. Fear Is Stronger Than Hope When It Comes To Fitness

Comment #92319 by arogop on November 30, 2007 at 9:28 am

This kind of article is not my cup of tea, but I think it does have a place here. I will just read the first paragraph and skip it.

80. The Scientists Speak

Comment #91857 by arogop on November 29, 2007 at 1:06 pm

24. Comment #89837 by briancoughlanworldcitizen

Wrong party... probably not. I'm a capitalist. I believe in less goverment not more.

Much in common... Absolutely.

Noxious Ideology... Yes it's called scientific proof/ or at least strong theories.

With the last point, Global warming/climate change is not there yet. The arguments presented to me are pretty weak to support that humans are fully responsible for what is going on. Should we spend money on it to find out the truth. YES. It is important. Should we wreak the economies of the world and punge us into a great depression based on a hypothothis. NO.

I would love to get rid of the oil in my life. I drive two E85 trucks. My gas truck is parked. If solar or wind was affordable I would get all of my electric needs from it. etc etc

Remember that the same models used for gobal warming can also predict global cooling if you make minor changes to some of your assumptions. (and these assumptions do not seem to be that great)

I want science dammit!! Not theology!!

81. Getting Overheated

Comment #91841 by arogop on November 29, 2007 at 12:48 pm

Green?

82. Getting Overheated

Comment #91837 by arogop on November 29, 2007 at 12:37 pm

Red

83. Saudi gang-rape victim is jailed

Comment #91833 by arogop on November 29, 2007 at 12:16 pm

37. Comment #90839 by helipilot16

E100 would be great, but unfortunately my Suburban and Tahoe can't run on it. It is also too hard to start in the winter. (I live in the north)

I will use E85 until my Hydrogen vehicle shows up in my driveway.

84. Mind your manners

Comment #91821 by arogop on November 29, 2007 at 11:39 am

23. Comment #88494 by briancoughlanworldcitizen

"rabid free marketeers"

I am not Rabid!!!!!!!

Lots of Love,

Andrew

85. Golden Compass author hits back

Comment #91819 by arogop on November 29, 2007 at 11:31 am

12. Comment #91168 by Fanusi Khiyal

"Can't we just talk about whether or not the book is any good, and likewise the film?"

Yes! I just finished the first book. A very good fantasy book. I did not like the ending as much. Her best friend getting killed by her father. Tough for me to take, being a father who loves his children very much.

I love the concept of daemons, however it gives religion a little too much credit.

There were several times when the next plot twist was a little too predictable. I am also not a huge fan of the "native talk". I usually like to have well formed sentences since that is how I learn. I also found it fustrating that the background of the story was not revealed well until about 50 or so pages into the story.

But I did enjoy it and would recomend it to anyone.

Andrew

86. Mind your manners

Comment #91816 by arogop on November 29, 2007 at 11:25 am

19. Comment #88400 by NMcC on November 16, 2007 at 1:35 pm

arogop

Well, thanks for that! We'll all be able to sleep soundly in our beds tonight now knowing that you are not a big fan of a term you can't even spell let alone use in an intelligible sentence.

I'll bet, as an advocate of 'good old capitalism', you're poorer than a church mouse's church mouse and one step away from the workhouse - you dimwits normally are.


----------------------------------------

Well thank you for that pycho analysis. Yes, I should use a spell checker or learn to spell.

Poor... Well you would feel pretty stupid if you knew the truth. (of course ignorance is bliss, isn't it) Most Capitalist tend to be pretty well off, so I guess we do know where your intelligence lies.

Dimwit... Well yes I am the textbook case of a Highly Gifted Underacheiver. Any idea what that means.

Andrew
"Glad he is not in your peer group"

87. Onward Science Soldiers

Comment #91813 by arogop on November 29, 2007 at 11:16 am

15. Comment #88134 by BT Murtagh

Thanks

88. Pat Robertson Says Giuliani Presidency Appears in Book of Revelation

Comment #91811 by arogop on November 29, 2007 at 11:13 am

27. Comment #86890 by briancoughlanworldcitizen

"I'll heave a sigh of relief (as both an atheist and a humanitarian) on the day the republican party is taken out back, shot by the electorate, and pronounced politically deceased. "

Well then you would be killing good athiests like me. Remember that just because the our party has been hijacked by the religious right does not mean that atheist just became Democrats.

89. Golden Compass author hits back

Comment #91808 by arogop on November 29, 2007 at 11:04 am

41. Comment #91311 by D'Arcy

"Incidentally, I thought His Dark Materials was more anti church than anti religion, and not enough of either"

I would agree. Definitely anti-establishment/church and even more so anti-power hungry people. Having just read the first book I thought it was pro religion. It actually creates a scenario in which there is a soul and there are real reasons for religion.

90. Golden Compass author hits back

Comment #91797 by arogop on November 29, 2007 at 10:52 am

26. Comment #91248 by Bonzai

Hey I like Santa Clause. To me he is the symbol of Capitalism. And I happen to like Capitalism. I also like some of the Pagan traditions because they are fun.

91. Monotheism was a con from the beginning

Comment #91789 by arogop on November 29, 2007 at 9:55 am

Growing up I read lots of L.Ron Hubbard's books. He is a good Sci Fi writer with a very active imagination. Recently I checked out from the library a DVD on him explaining Scientology. My wife and I both felt that he just got bored one day and decided he would just create a religion.

92. Study: Babies can tell helpful, hurtful playmates

Comment #91481 by arogop on November 28, 2007 at 12:30 pm

15. Comment #90091 by dsainty

People who underestimate what a child under the age of 6 months can understand and do are selling the child short. Children are capable of very advavced thinking when you provide an enviroment conducive to learning.

Try turning off the TV and reading to this child. You will be suprised what the result is.

93. Study: Babies can tell helpful, hurtful playmates

Comment #91478 by arogop on November 28, 2007 at 12:23 pm

2. Comment #90019 by shemp333

Absolutely. We never talked "baby talk" to our two children and they both learned language and developed at astounding rates. Our oldest was speaking in complete sentences with pronouns and contractions when her peers were struggling with putting two words together.

94. Man-sized sea scorpion claw found

Comment #89664 by arogop on November 21, 2007 at 12:30 pm

5. Comment #89659 by ChrisMcL

You may get comfort for this by talking to your imaginary friend.

What I don't get is with the age of the planet of 10,000 how did it get imbeded in a rock? ;)

95. Getting Overheated

Comment #89642 by arogop on November 21, 2007 at 10:24 am

Ty-

I will completly ignore that we have lots of coal and would just switch to that!

96. Getting Overheated

Comment #89641 by arogop on November 21, 2007 at 10:22 am

22. Comment #89557 by Ty_Webb

Fantastic contribution. Now I have something to think about today!!

97. The Scientists Speak

Comment #89629 by arogop on November 21, 2007 at 9:33 am

P.S. I am old enough to remember when those who now seem to have the "moral highground" on this issue were full of S**T and engaged in such deception and misinformation that it would make any mega church preacher proud.

98. The Scientists Speak

Comment #89626 by arogop on November 21, 2007 at 9:29 am

10. Comment #89372 by briancoughlanworldcitizen

Let me reintroduce myself again. I am an American Republican. (and yet you and I have so much in common, How does that work? :) ) I represent a significant part of the party. We are just not in control of our party like when certain extremists took over the Democratic party and allowed the Republicans to really take control of all of the goverment for the first time in many many moons.

I am an atheist, a conservationalist, and have a scientific background.

I am also a skeptic. We have been forcefed so mush BS from both sides on this issue that it is very hard to determine where the truth lies.

The beauty of coming to a site like this is the free flow of ideas/knowledge and more importantly the criticism of said knowledge.

99. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #89614 by arogop on November 21, 2007 at 8:53 am

OK Sam-

I will buy her book and donate. Now where is my wifes checkbook?

100. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #89613 by arogop on November 21, 2007 at 8:50 am

And if you get it (a reprieve)you are welcome to dissent, just do it politly.