51. Church Preaches The Music Of Beethoven

Comment #284746 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 6:16 pm

Comment #284733 by KRKBAB

Haha - I remember the Nice doing the Karelia Suite. At the time (I was about 17) I thought it was extremely groovy. I listened to it again recently and realised just what a travesty it actually is. But never mind - it got me interested in Sibelius, so thank you, The Nice. Isn't that a nice version of Sofa, KRKBAB?

52. Hitchens Debates Rabbi Wolpe on God

Comment #284741 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 6:10 pm

You got something against Flibbles, Steve?

Your point is entirely correct. The problem for theists, even before discussing their tortured ontology, is to provide an epistemology that makes sense. This is why I've asked Dianelos et al (as have several others) to provide sound epistemological conditions that would even allow us to "debate" the existence of his deity. I simply don't believe that theists can do this. They skirt around the edges, forever using circular arguments. This provides, I think, eloquent support for your refusal to enter into the theist/atheist distinction.

53. Church Preaches The Music Of Beethoven

Comment #284691 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 4:17 pm

I've always despised the religion versus science divide. It is crass and simple minded in the extreme. No, the true divide is religion versus art, fellowship, literature, music, politics, science, theatre, culture etc.

54. Hitchens Debates Rabbi Wolpe on God

Comment #284689 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 4:15 pm

Tch, tch, Titania. Just remember you're going to need plenty of match practice before July - I'd be starting now.

As to your Jewish friend, if he says anything superstitious, just laugh uproariously, as if he is the possessor of a fine wit and a deep sense of irony. And if he says anything pro-rethuglican, throw your fork at him.

55. Hitchens Debates Rabbi Wolpe on God

Comment #284684 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 4:06 pm

Oy vey, indeed - Titania. Sounds very much like the conversation I had last night with a couple of Catholic friends. I'd just go ahead and order pork, for starters. BTW, how was last night's dinner?

56. Church Preaches The Music Of Beethoven

Comment #284682 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 3:59 pm

D'Arcy - I'm shattered! Zappa is as close to the divine as you'd like to get. (Just between you and me, though - I agree about Vangelis;) )

57. Church Preaches The Music Of Beethoven

Comment #284680 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 3:53 pm

Comment #284678 by NewEnglandBob

You might have added, NEB, "...than just about everything but Bach."

58. Hitchens Debates Rabbi Wolpe on God

Comment #284679 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 3:52 pm

Comment #284673 by decius

Decius, I think poor old Dianelos is in a quandry - he knows the end is near. He has realised that imaginary gods, imaginary logic and imaginary atheists exist only in the imagination of the imaginer!

(Sorry - I'm in a Zappa mood this morning.)

59. Church Preaches The Music Of Beethoven

Comment #284675 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 3:48 pm

Chris - I'm exactly the same. You've only got to bring Brahms' German Requiem within cooee of me and I'm a blubbering baby. But, big deal - I'm not crying for "Gawd" - as any rational human understands, music is just about the most powerful emotional stimulus there is (especially as you get older).

60. Church Preaches The Music Of Beethoven

Comment #284669 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 3:37 pm

Comment #284582 by KRKBAB

I live in that church, KRKBAB! Try these for size (one size fits all):

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=VcnBE9kfRTU

http://churchofrationalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/brief-musical-interlude_5479.html

61. Interview with John Lennox

Comment #284435 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 7:24 am

"How many angels can dance on a pin?
Few if fat, more if thin."

Theological philosophy in a nutshell.

62. Interview with John Lennox

Comment #284416 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 6:58 am

To satisfy my curiosity, Paul, which of the standard arguments for god (if any) do you support? Ontological, cosmological, teleological, moral, causal? If you can provide a coherent set of definitions of your arguments, and we agree on a few principles and so-on, we might get somewhere. I assume you'll be happy to change your mind about the existence of god if all of your arguments are logically refuted.

63. Interview with John Lennox

Comment #284407 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 6:47 am

Comment #284399 by paulb

You might find that a few of us are, indeed, "actual" philosophers, Paul - you know, with graduate and post-graduate degrees in the subject. Many others are educated in various branches of the sciences, humanities, etc., with enough experience to have a pretty good stab at tackling these kinds of issues.

So, you wanted someone who had studied philosophy, in particular logic (do you mean formal, symbolic, modal, or what?). What would you like to ask?

64. Interview with John Lennox

Comment #284371 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 5:23 am

So, Steve, how would you view theologians positing a Deistic god? (Deolgians?) And what about a theologian positing a theistic God, who has a plan for us, but that it were, say, accessible only through the use of introspection and the use of our faculties?

65. Interview with John Lennox

Comment #284365 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 5:04 am

As you say, Mike - it's the premises what does 'em in. These, combined with the repeated mantra of "faith", which, when I told my friends tonight, was nothing more than a wish, provoked a very stern reaction.

66. Interview with John Lennox

Comment #284357 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 4:41 am

Of course, Mike - I've just had one of those "beating the head against a brick wall" evenings with two perfectly lovely catholic ladies.

67. Interview with John Lennox

Comment #284349 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 4:31 am

Comment #284339 by MPhil

and Clarence Darrow, and Ernest Nagel, and... ah, fergit it, Mike - the loony tunes don't want to know anyway.

68. Interview with John Lennox

Comment #284330 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 3:46 am

Comment #284328 by Steve Zara

Logic at its finest!

69. Interview with John Lennox

Comment #284326 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 3:40 am

It sounds like Archbishop Jensen channelling a post-modernist.

70. Interview with John Lennox

Comment #284324 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 3:34 am

Comment #284321 by black wolf

Nice one, black wolf. I love it when theology turns its hand to philosophy. Result? Complete gobbledy-gook.

71. Interview with John Lennox

Comment #284317 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 3:25 am

Epeeist - wasn't it Bertrand Russell who said that all of the "arguments" for the existence of god were simply postulations, and that "postulation has all the advantages of theft over honest toil"?

72. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284299 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 2:41 am

Finnish? Can't be as hard as Spanish, decius :)

73. Atheism/Agnosticism Plus Compassion Equals Humanism

Comment #284295 by Laurie Fraser on November 15, 2008 at 2:14 am

ev-love,
While not having read Armstrong puts me at a disadvantage in many ways, I was merely making the point that the "arrogant atheism" charge rears its head too often, as if it is a trusted truism; i.e, a canard.

Edit: corrected for calling ev-love "ex-love". Sorry, my Freudian slip :)

74. Atheism/Agnosticism Plus Compassion Equals Humanism

Comment #284264 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 8:56 pm

Intereting quote, Layla. I always get tetchy when I see the old "arrogant atheism" canard get thrown about. Is it arrogant to use reason against superstition? Perhaps she'd be better off calling it "strident."

75. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284262 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 7:41 pm

Decius - PM for you.

76. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284254 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 6:44 pm

Decius, you amaze me. So you have Spanish, or Portuguese, or both? Remind me to tell you a great joke about the Irishman in Barcelona one day. (I won't tell it now - Tyler and Hungarian might start telling Aussie jokes!)

77. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284249 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 6:16 pm

Comment #284246 by steveroot

Even worse, Steve - imagine a duet by Celine Dion and Kenny G.

78. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284243 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 6:03 pm

Cerebate - good point! My apologies, Steve. ;)

79. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284241 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 5:58 pm

Decius - are you native to Sweden? If so, then you have an outstanding grasp of language if you can decipher Welsh's tortured Scots!

Oh, and not the dogs. Anything but the dogs.

80. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284238 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 5:55 pm

Decius - just read the story. Incredible! Thanks.

81. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284235 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 5:41 pm

R2S - Fuckin brallient! I want to see Decius perfect the back foot off drive against a wiley piece of fast bowling from yours truly.

82. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284227 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 5:29 pm

Root2Squared - help, help! I'm being attacked by a mob of infidels.

(Ah, but Phil, that "boredom" is worth the price just for one majestic cover drive from Sachin Tendulkar!)

83. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284222 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 5:15 pm

Perhaps, D. But you see, cricket will appeal to that fine brain of yours. Picture the physics of cricket. A very hard ball, weighing six and a half ounces, is propelled at about 140k.p.h. down a 20 metre turf strip. It will swing through the air on its trajectory, and this swing can be controlled by the bowler's method of delivery. It then strikes the ground about two to three metres in front of the batsman, and can careen off the pitch at an angle controlled by the skill of the bowler.

Meanwhile, the batsman must attempt to judge the trajectory of the ball, and has about half a second to react to all of these variables. The fact that a batsman can actually make contact with the ball, let alone hit it right in the middle of the bat and guide it between the opposing fieldsmen with a seemingly effortless, fluent stroke full of grace, majesty, and power, verges on the miraculous.

And that's only part of the reason we love cricket!

84. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284218 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 4:58 pm

Aha! Guess what, Decius - Vaal and I are intent on educating even Scandinavians on the finer points of the game. Prepare, brother!

85. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284207 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 4:29 pm

Apparently the match referee now has the power to suspend the captain for one match for a slow over rate. Ponting's been criticised for acting selfishly. with which I don't agree. Nevertheless, Australia does need a re-think of its approach.

86. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284201 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 4:09 pm

2 - you might be interested in this:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/cricket/bpeter-roebuckb/2008/11/14/1226318927750.html

87. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284195 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 3:54 pm

Blasphemer!

88. Atheism/Agnosticism Plus Compassion Equals Humanism

Comment #284194 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 3:52 pm

Posting whilst drunk is a time-honoured tradition on this board, Titania - isthatclear does it all the time. (And you thought he just had a poor grasp of spelling and grammar.)

89. Atheism/Agnosticism Plus Compassion Equals Humanism

Comment #284188 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 3:35 pm

Titania - well she's a "religious thinker", a tautology if ever I've heard one. How was your dinner?

90. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284187 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 3:33 pm

Steve - you are truly funny! Damn! Just spat coffee on the keyboard.

91. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284184 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 3:20 pm

Haha - you can't get away that easily, Steve. I'll be back in England for three weeks after Dublin, and I believe Vaal and I have a scheme planned for a certain Test match fixture. *twirls moustaches and grins evilly*

92. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284178 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 3:03 pm

Steve - are you intending to go to Dublin?

93. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284170 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 2:42 pm

Steve - link doesn't work.

94. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284165 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 2:14 pm

Seriously, light from any source can be reflected back out of a cats' eyes and many other animal eyes...

95. Atheism/Agnosticism Plus Compassion Equals Humanism

Comment #284149 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 1:06 pm

Nice research, Brian - I told ya!

96. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #284142 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 12:54 pm

Typical liberal ignore-what-I-don't-want-to-hear-or-defend tactic

97. Atheism/Agnosticism Plus Compassion Equals Humanism

Comment #284140 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 12:51 pm

Comment #284137 by Ian Bamlett

Thanks, Ian - I enjoy being told I'm smarter than God ;)

98. Atheism/Agnosticism Plus Compassion Equals Humanism

Comment #284136 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 12:42 pm

Well, the Greeks were responsible for just about everything else that is good, Brian - why not give them the golden rule as well?

99. Christian group halts book launch

Comment #284131 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 12:33 pm

Comment #284129 by ianrgoulding

Pheeeeeewwwwwwieee! Jebus, Ian - there's "whacko" and then there's "seriously out of kilter". That's priceless; thanks!

100. Atheism/Agnosticism Plus Compassion Equals Humanism

Comment #284127 by Laurie Fraser on November 14, 2008 at 12:22 pm

Comment #284120 by Ian Bamlett

I see your point, Ian, but I disagree. I think the golden rule's a beauty. To answer your "bus-stop" example, I'd say that the golden rule is merely shorthand for the notion of compassionate empathy. Any bloke worth his salt will only engage a woman in conversation that is "neighbourly", and respects the appropriate distance between the two. Of course, this can sometimes lead to mix-ups. I was waiting for a taxi late one night in a rough part of Sydney. A young woman came up to the taxi-rank. When the first cab came along, I said to her "You take this one, love - I'll get the next one." She turned on me and yelled "How dare you patronise me!" It was pretty funny, really.