51. 'Atheistic fundamentalism' fears

Comment #102371 by Luthien on December 22, 2007 at 1:52 pm

Update
The BBC has made a correction in the last paragraph from "militant atheists" to outspoken atheists.

Their remarks follow the rise of outspoken atheists such as Oxford University scientist Richard Dawkins, whose book The God Delusion, has been a bestseller.

Woohoo, the system works! :-P

52. 'Atheistic fundamentalism' fears

Comment #102370 by Luthien on December 22, 2007 at 1:41 pm

I submitted an official complaint to the BBC about the following:

Their remarks follow the rise of militant atheists such as Oxford University scientist Richard Dawkins, whose book The God Delusion, has been a bestseller.

I complained that the word "militant" is far too emotive to be "fair and impartial" according to the BBC's standards, and worse still it made it seem like they were actually endorsing the Bishop's views. I suggested that it be amended to "outspoken".

They require all their reporters to refer to the men in Iraq who murder men, women, and children as "insurgents" (I saw on their complaints site that someone had complained about the word "insurgent", and they had cited their impartiality as the reason), and yet they are calling Richard Dawkins a "militant"???

I suggest that we all do the same, and make sure you select the request feedback radio button on their official complaint form.

53. Bible bashing dying out in Kansas

Comment #102364 by Luthien on December 22, 2007 at 1:28 pm

Another britishism to watch out for is 'godbothering'.

That must mean my hobby of picking on "street preachers" / leafleters is called "godbothererbothering" :-P

Seriously though, there is a tipping point for these things that passes unnoticed, kind of like the Berlin Wall thing, and next thing you know the world is so much better for people. All we have to do is keep making people think!

54. Clegg 'does not believe in God'

Comment #100860 by Luthien on December 19, 2007 at 1:16 pm

38. Comment #100847 by PrimeNumbers on December 19, 2007 at 12:49 pm
I don't see it as a good thing to be an Atheist and raise your children Catholic. I mean, if you don't have the courage of your convictions.....

Meh, catholic indoctrination doesn't work properly unless accompanied by violence. Most people my parent's age were beaten for inability to say a prayer correctly, or some other made up offense. Education minus violence = most people seeing through it. The only problem is the lack of proper sex ed, but that didn't do me any harm in spite of my parents unwillingness to talk about it. (I picked up most of my attitudes on sex from watching nature documentaries, i.e. awww, look at the little bonobos.)

Even so, I won't be sending a child of mine to a catholic school, but then I'm not in a position where a. the only good school in the area is Catholic, or b. I have a partner that would demand it.

55. Clegg 'does not believe in God'

Comment #100854 by Luthien on December 19, 2007 at 1:01 pm

25. Comment #100808 by epeeist on December 19, 2007 at 11:21 am

And since I am in story telling mode, I may as well finish it off. One of the priests visited us to find out why my brother hadn't been going to church. Seeing just the two children and a dog he told my mother she should get rid of the dog and consider having more children. Both she and the dog took exception to this and chased the priest down the garden path. Closing the gate behind him the priest turned and told me my mother that she would burn in hell. To which she responded that "she wouldn't be able to get near the fires for you buggers stoking it".

You just made my week with that story!

I lived briefly in a house in West Belfast, and within a very short space of time a bloke wearing a full Franciscan monk's outfit knocked at my door. Needless to say I left the crazy person knocking away, but my (now ex) partner answered the door eventually and it turned out to be the local catholic priest (he wanted to "remind" us of the mass times).

56. What Your Brain Looks Like on Faith

Comment #100152 by Luthien on December 18, 2007 at 10:05 am

I always laughed because it reminds me of 'World of Warcraft' zombies only worse-much worse

Only I can't put my curses on them, or cast seed of corruption and run! :-P

57. Believe it or not

Comment #97536 by Luthien on December 12, 2007 at 9:29 am

"Freethinker"... I like that one best. You can be an Atheist and still follow a political or economic doctrine / dogma, but the term "Freethinker" specifically denotes the non-adherence to dogma of all kinds. Plus, it has positive connotations; everyone loves freedom, and who would claim not to "think" about things.

It has also been around for a while, and is associated with the founding fathers of America.

58. Functional Neuroimaging of Belief, Disbelief, and Uncertainty

Comment #97437 by Luthien on December 12, 2007 at 4:53 am

17. Comment #97245 by BAEOZ on December 11, 2007 at 7:51 pm
Thanks Don_Quix. I've used heaps of emoticons. But that is not event vaguely a heart. Thanks anyway. :)

Actually, it's extremely common in online gaming such a World of Warcraft, and it doesn't look like a heart because it's extremely difficult to put in all the arteries and ventricles using only ASCII characters :-P

59. Bah, Hanukkah

Comment #94319 by Luthien on December 5, 2007 at 9:31 am

"Everybody knows" that sentences beginning with the words "Everybody knows" have a tendency to be rather suspect.

Brilliant line, Northern Bright! I have it up as my Messenger "quote of the day" now :)

60. Banishing the Green-Eyed Monster

Comment #92501 by Luthien on November 30, 2007 at 4:17 pm

Sexual jealousy is something that needs to be understood, as does (adulterous) promiscuity. The point is, to my mind, to understand why you feel the way you do, why the other person feels / acts the way they do, and come to some sort of rational agreement on the matter.

Often sexual jealousy can occur without any rational reason or "cheating" taking place, or "cheating" occurs because the other party withdraws and isolates their partner to the point that it would be cruel to refuse them the comfort of another human being.

Another thing that frys my head, is the way that people blame the "third party" for "stealing" their partner. I have lost count of the number of times I have had to remind an acquaintance that you cannot "steal" a person, because people are not property.

Understanding your jealousy is the best way to find a sane and peaceful resolution to any such situation.

61. Banishing the Green-Eyed Monster

Comment #92482 by Luthien on November 30, 2007 at 3:41 pm

He screwed around ON THE JOB and IN THE OFFICE.

He should have been fired no question.

Hmmm... So a woman who keeps her dress in a freezer isn't trying to entrap the person who deposited their DNA there?

I once shook hands with Clinton (actually, with both of them :P), I'm so glad I washed them before eating ;-)

62. Pupil defends teacher in Muhammad teddy furore

Comment #91831 by Luthien on November 29, 2007 at 12:13 pm

18. Comment #91565 by lulando on November 28, 2007 at 2:53 pm
avatarIncidents like these proof how much a personality like the reformer Martin Luther is needed...

Is this the same Martin Luther that said "Reason is the Devil's harlot"?

63. A New Flea in Town!

Comment #91827 by Luthien on November 29, 2007 at 11:58 am

4. Comment #91810 by DarwinsPitbull on November 29, 2007 at 11:12 am
Richard is going to have to start walking around with a flea collar.

It would have to be a cat collar, as it certainly couldn't be a dog collar (teeheehee).

64. Rock of Ages, Ages of Rock

Comment #90677 by luthien on November 26, 2007 at 5:33 am

"Instead, we think: 'Here's what the Bible says. Now let's go to the rocks and see if we find the evidence for it.' "

The very definition of confirmation bias

*sigh*

65. Onward Christian teachers?

Comment #87777 by Luthien on November 13, 2007 at 4:47 am

25. Comment #87709 by flying goose on November 12, 2007 at 11:29 pm
...I think that snobbery can also be incalcated in the young at a very early age. Ban all private education now. It gives the rich the right to buy 'better' education where their children are taught to look down on everybody else.( I am sort of joking.)

Joking or not, I think you are right. The only way to ensure that all "public services" are maintained to the highest standard is to make sure that those responsible for maintaining them actually have to use them. The 2 most important ones being Health and Education.

66. Lessons in hate found at leading mosques

Comment #83747 by Luthien on October 31, 2007 at 6:06 am

29. Comment #83740 by stevencarrwork on October 31, 2007 at 5:27 am
I detect double-standards here.

Do you hear Muslims complaining about the books openly on sale in Britain which claim that Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old girl, or that Muhammad ordered the assassination of opponents?

Do you see the Times trying to track down the publishers of these books?

No, no, no, you have got it all wrong! The books that claim that Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old girl are on sale in the muslim bookstores.

(Go look if you don't believe me.)

67. Row Brews Over DUP Call for Schools to Teach Creationism

Comment #73163 by Luthien on September 24, 2007 at 10:18 am

89. Comment #73101 by Roger Stanyard on September 24, 2007 at 6:02 am
Luthien,

I'll be posting other stuff on our forum in a minute - could I have permission to post your comment?

Roger Stanyard, British Centre for Science Education.

Yes, of course :-)

68. Row Brews Over DUP Call for Schools to Teach Creationism

Comment #73098 by Luthien on September 24, 2007 at 5:47 am

79. Comment #73055 by SharrieG on September 24, 2007 at 2:14 am

As a Christian in Northern Ireland, I'm not sure things are quite as bad as this. The Free Presbyterian Church has little support from most Christians on the ground. I wouldn't say that Creationism is a Calvinistic product, nor that the Presbyterian church promotes creationism - I grew up in a Presbyterian Church, and evolution was entirely accepted.

SharrieG, it matters not how many churches do or don't support literal creationist positions. The issue we should be worried about is the fact that these idiots in the DUP have been voted in (as the largest political party) on the mandate of unionism, and are using their political power to push this junk into our education system. (I say OUR, because I live half way between Belfast and Lisburn.) During the last election I gave quite an earfull to the DUP canvaser that came to my door, and he denied to my face that the DUP were pushing any sort of religious agenda.

83. Comment #73069 by Roger Stanyard on September 24, 2007 at 3:25 am
SharrieC - A request.

Would you mind me posting your reply about creationism in Northern Ireland on the forum of the the British Centre for Science Education?

One of the evangelicals there is deeply concerned about the spread of creationism in the province and I think your reply would be much appreciated. he lives in NI, btw.

Roger Stanyard, British Centre for Science Education

Roger, before you start assuring people that everything is quite OK over here, please bear in mind my above point.

69. Row Brews Over DUP Call for Schools to Teach Creationism

Comment #73097 by Luthien on September 24, 2007 at 5:32 am

Devolved said:

Comment #72597 by liberalartist

The irony in denying evolution is that most people don't realize they are dependent on that knowledge daily for the medicines that have been developed, vaccines, cures, etc.

So if that is true provide some proof. Louis Pasteur was both a Christian and an opponent of evolution yet his scientific work has been of immense benefit to mankind and many lives have been saved. What basis do you have for claiming that vaccines and cures are in any way dependent on a belief in evolution.

Oh please, are you really suggesting that the study of bacteria, viruses, and vaccines has not moved on since the work done by Louis Pasteur??? You really should start reading stuff that isn't on the "approved" reading list provided by Liberty "university".

70. Scientists' Good News: Earth May Survive Sun's Demise in 5 Billion Years

Comment #70187 by Luthien on September 14, 2007 at 9:31 am

What, is it national cynic day today, or did they cancel "dress down friday"??? Come on ppl!

Some people have to think far ahead, like Kepler's story about traveling to the moon and standing on the surface. It is these things that keep the human race looking forward. I enjoyed this article for the same reasons I loved all the various star trek series; it frees the mind from the chains of the present.

71. Censoring Sir David

Comment #69897 by Luthien on September 13, 2007 at 5:47 am

Reminds me of a family guy sketch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOYfG0QGG0

72. Censoring Sir David

Comment #69867 by Luthien on September 13, 2007 at 3:17 am

hungarianelephant, I remember in primary school being laughed at by the teacher (and the whole class) when I explained that, since colour is reflected light, black was technically not really a colour at all. Her reply was something along the lines of "If black isn't a colour, how can you have black paint?". The same teacher listed Astrology on my report card as one of my interests (it was Astronomy of course!!!).

With teachers like that it makes you wonder how anyone ever got an education!

73. Christopher Hitchens and Bill Donohue on Mother Teresa

Comment #66717 by Luthien on August 31, 2007 at 5:38 am

This idiot thinks he's Irish (No, I'm irish *waves pasport in front of loudmouth's ample visage* I doubt we would let you have one!), and doesn't know that Hitchens is an American now...

/sigh

Shuggy, PWNED is pronounced powned (po as in pony, owned), or sometimes just "owned". It comes from a common spelling mistake caused by the proximity of "P" to "O" when typing owned.

74. Another view

Comment #66475 by Luthien on August 30, 2007 at 4:53 am

79. Comment #66464 by wendelin on August 30, 2007 at 3:49 am
Baeoz, and others who suggest acupuncture acted as a placebo for my dad and me:

Exactly how does a placebo work when the ailment in question is a SLIPPED DISK? I have mainstream science's medical records to prove it, you know. A slipped disc means horrendous back aches, an inability to straighten up completely on bad days, and my dad even had trauma to muscle fibres in the area, which doctors said was incurable. The AFTER picture: muscle-fibre trauma remained, but the disc was back in place.

If it slipped out, perhaps it just slipped in again :-P

Seriously though, I fail to see the link between sticking pins in your skin and moving the bones or cartilage in your spine. If you and your father both showed this kind of recovery, perhaps you have a genetic condition that either predisposes your body to better regeneration, or to a condition that simply shows similar symptoms to a slipped disk? There could also be an environmental factor shared by your family that you overlooked?

75. Another view

Comment #66470 by Luthien on August 30, 2007 at 4:22 am

61. Comment #66265 by Bonzai on August 29, 2007 at 2:12 pm

Depending on what you consider "proper" evidence and "alternative therapies". Chinese medicine seems to work a lot better for some people at least for many non life threatening conditions.

How do you know that those people with "non life threatening conditions" would not have got better anyway? People who don't die of minor ailments generally do get better (unless it's something like a genetic / developmental abnormality). This is why experiments are conducted with a control to see what happens when you do nothing.

76. Another view

Comment #66198 by Luthien on August 29, 2007 at 8:30 am

The barefoot doctor is just jealous because he doesn't have a full complement of Atlantean DNA ;-)

It's ridiculously nihilistic to think that if you can't prove something right now, it isn't valid. It's so self-limiting: Dawkins must be very unhappy in himself. We've progressed beyond that. Look at the miraculous realms being explored by quantum physicists. We have to suspend disbelief for a while, and see where they'll take us.

Sweet Zombie Jesus! Here we go again with the invocation of quantum physics. Do I need to reiterate that the "strangeness" of quantum physics is backed up by experimental evidence, whereas his "alternative" medicine isn't? Or perhaps he thinks no evidence is required because what he knows, he knows...

77. Only secular schools will overcome sectarianism

Comment #65882 by Luthien on August 27, 2007 at 8:43 am

41. Comment #65871 by Cregaune on August 27, 2007 at 7:46 am

Yes, if those political views are underpinned by discrimination and fundamental irreconcilable differences in political outlook held by two sets of people living in close proximity to each other.

But the method of separation is undeniably religious. Keeping each generation in separate schools so they are not exposed to any opinion other than their "side" is the main cause of all the problems.

n the Sixties there were very tangible, non-religiously based reasons why Nationalists in Northern Ireland (and consequently, those in the Republic) felt resentment against the Unionist majority. There was widespread discrimination against Nationalists (making up the majority of the working class and living in certain defined areas). That they were Catholics was merely incidental. Simply becoming an atheist (or even converting to Protestantism) didn't make any difference. You were still considered part of the 'other' and the 'other' had nothing to do with religion.

It seems you are also caught looking at this from one "side". Of course Catholics had very real reasons why they might have felt resentment, but you are not looking at the whole picture. Why do you think it was so easy for protestants to justify such discrimination in the first place? Why did the divisions not dissolve through friendships and marriages? National identity can also be divisive, but it does not in itself provide a mechanism to keep 2 halves of a population so entirely isolated from each other. It is easy to demonise people if you did not grow up with them.

You cannot escape the system by abandoning the religion of your birth because the people on the other side won't let you, and the school you went to will mark you like a tattoo for those who care about such things.

You are right that education is the key, but it is the "mixed" environment of the University campus that allows people to meet and befriend those like minded people they should have met in school. I would never have met my partner if we had not met at university (in spite of our Atheism, we were trapped on different "sides" via the school system).

78. Only secular schools will overcome sectarianism

Comment #65854 by Luthien on August 27, 2007 at 6:00 am

38. Comment #65849 by Cregaune on August 27, 2007 at 5:34 am

The troubles in NI had little or nothing to do with religious sectarianism. Religion was simply a reliable indicator of underlying political affiliation....Nationalism or Unionism.

No, it is the other way around! Do you really think that it would be possible to reliably pass mere political views from parent to child for more than 400 years? No, it is the religious structures in place that keep the divide in place, and give people the feeling that they are morally justified in hating the other side.

In any case, the whole "situation" was originally caused by the power struggle between protestant England and the Catholic church (followed by a struggle between a catholic English king and a protestant Dutch king). Since Ireland was a convenient "back door" with a ready made army of brainwashed "loyal" catholics, the struggle ended up being played out here.

There was a general attitude of parochialism and a fear of the outside world where moral decay was considered rampant (a little like the attitude of the Islamic world today). Sinn Fein (the political wing of the IRA) used to conduct collections outside church gates on Sunday mornings.

I'm curious as to why you might link these 2 things, when it is clearly the catholic influence here perpetuating the idea of isolation and moral decay. It seems to me that the Sinn Fein collectors were just riding on the back of the more successful money collectors inside the church. After all, Sinn Fein have to walk to the church where the people are to collect money, whereas the church itself actually has people walk to it to give money. Who had the most power and influence?

79. Only secular schools will overcome sectarianism

Comment #65839 by Luthien on August 27, 2007 at 3:06 am

7. Comment #65726 by IanRobinson on August 26, 2007 at 5:08 am
Re: Comment 5 from student grant

I went to a standard comprehensive school in the suburbs of East Belfast in the 1970's and early 1980's. It was not a "Protestant" school. Anyone could attend from the catchment area. There were very few Roman Catholics attending (it had about 1300 pupils in total). The reason for this was that there were Roman Catholic schools that bused the children of parents of that religion out of the area. I would say that there were (indeed are) state schools and then there are religious schools (mainly Roman Catholic) in NI. We need to abolish the religious schools and make them all state schools with no influence from any churches at all.

Bah! I was one of those poor people bused off to be brainwashed. Thankfully it didn't take ;-) I really think we need to break the influence of the Catholic church here in NI. It makes me really angry that I now get marked down as a "Catholic" on the monitoring forms, just because I got dragged to one of those schools. It makes them appear to represent WAY more people than they actually do! It is bizarre that the government would release that statement:

The Churches have a long history of providing education in this country and have confirmed their commitment to community cohesion. Faith schools have an excellent record in providing high-quality education and serving disadvantaged communities and are some of the most ethnically and socially diverse in the country.

Given the Catholic Church's past record in working with children. They should put the whole organisation on the sex offender's register for trying to cover it up like that!

80. Amnesty to defy Catholic church over rape victims' abortion rights

Comment #63227 by Luthien on August 13, 2007 at 2:58 pm

"In Peru, a 17-year-old girl discovered that her foetus had anencephaly - meaning that it was going to be born without a brain - but a doctor refused to allow her access to an abortion. She was compelled to give birth and breastfeed the child for four days before its died."

Ugh! I have seen a picture of one of these foetuses! This is the worst thing I have ever heard, and coming back to hungarianelephant's point, it almost happened in Ireland! The young girl in question had to go to the European court of human rights because they refused to let her leave hospital.

81. Eight-million-year-old bug is alive and growing

Comment #62091 by Luthien on August 8, 2007 at 6:02 am

This is the kind of fascinating science article that I would love to see more of on RD. I think we should intersperse more of this between the "KGOD interview with Hitchens - God Is Not Great". I know I'll take some flak for saying so, but that's OK. It's another day in paradise!

/agree

82. The Flea Circus Invites a Newcomer!

Comment #60323 by Luthien on August 1, 2007 at 3:20 pm

Tom Cruse's minders won't let them on this site, CJ22 :-P

Really pisses me off that WH Smith keeps putting McGrath's book in the popular science section beside stuff like The Selfish Gene (I keep returning them to the fiction section when no one is watching).

83. At Fermilab, the Race Is on for the 'God Particle'

Comment #58294 by Luthien on July 24, 2007 at 9:07 am

Isn't it called the "God Particle" because it gives energy the quality of "mass", thereby bringing the physical universe into existence: i.e. E=m*C(squared)? That's what I always thought, anyway :-)

84. Preventing More Lal Masjids

Comment #57194 by Luthien on July 18, 2007 at 2:13 pm

2. Comment #56911 by Solarium Solaris on July 17, 2007 at 8:02 pm
I hope the same, geckoman. I wonder why the recent resurgence in extremism. I mean, Islam has been around for centuries and its teachings haven't really changed, so why is it now that so many more are turning to violence?

The sad truth is that, in a way, we all fund it via Saudi oil money. From the muslim brotherhood to "islamic" children's text books in the UK (full of anti sematism and hatred against "infidels"), they are all funded via this vast virtually bottomless fund. Before oil became important they didn't have the resources to spread it in the same way that the catholic church could spread theirs (they had the resources of the former roman empire at their command at one point, and it still shows).

85. Insurance for Sex Abuse: A policy tailor-made for the Catholic church

Comment #56887 by Luthien on July 17, 2007 at 4:43 pm

How can they let them have insurance for abuse??? The fines should be there as a deterrent to stop them covering it up in the first place!

86. The US map of faith

Comment #55996 by Luthien on July 13, 2007 at 6:25 am

30. Comment #55704 by Clapton_is_God on July 12, 2007 at 3:16 am

Not Spain or Italy, those countries are very secular now. Definitely red would be Ireland and Poland, most of the rest of Europe would be sub-yellow.

Oh please! Ireland would certainly not be red (even if you count the newly arrived
Polish communities). Ok, the laws in the republic still have to catch up with secular europe, but there has been a huge backlash against religion. Here in Northern Ireland, polls put the percentage of people who are atheist / agnostic at 10%, and this in spite of the tendancy for atheists I know to call themselves "catholic" or "protestant" out of some tribal loyalty that has nothing to do with religious belief.

87. Atheists: stand up and be counted

Comment #50946 by Luthien on June 20, 2007 at 3:28 pm

53. Comment #50707 by fides_et_ratio on June 19, 2007 at 2:52 pm
If however, I ever do meet a fourteen year old who fully understands both atomic theory and the doctrine of transubstantiation, I'll pray that I have the humility to leave them to it in the comforting knowledge that as their intellect is vastly superior to mine, they'll be able to make their own mind up about it.

That's good to know, because the teachers at my old catholic school certainly didn't "leave me to it" as I was reading John Gribbin's "In Search of Schrodinger's Cat" during my RE lessons (not that it stoped me contemptuously ignoring her of course). Last year they were forcing students who took an "ethics" course instead of RE classes to write their essays from the catholic point of view, by telling them that a catholic was marking it, and they would lose marks if they didn't. Oh, and not to mention them sending someone up to my sister's classroom to make her take the "ash Wednesday" ashes, after she failed to show up to the service (they know she is an atheist)!

To be honest, people like you who would apologise for the catholic indoctrination machine just make me sick! I, and other people I know have had so much trouble with them. I could go on (at length) because I have so many stories, but I'm all ranted out for tonight :P

88. Vatican cardinal calls on Catholics to stop funding Amnesty

Comment #50115 by Luthien on June 15, 2007 at 5:54 am

This is the result of the Catholic Church's lobbying in Nicaragua:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6161396.stm

A ban on abortions even when the woman's life is at risk. Sick!

I think Amnesty International should open a file on the Catholic Church's human rights abuses!

89. Tome truths

Comment #49439 by Luthien on June 12, 2007 at 1:25 am

12. Comment #49311 by CJ22 on June 11, 2007 at 1:05 pm
pwnd!

I think you will find that the correct expression for the magnitude of a pwn by AC Grayling is:

OMGWTFBBQPWNAGE!!!11!!^^

90. Atheism is pretentious and cowardly

Comment #48532 by Luthien on June 8, 2007 at 9:32 am

Philos, here are some secular charities:

medecins sans-frontiers: The number 1 charity in offering medical services worldwide.

21st Century Child: operates a "shoe box" scheme, encouraging schools to collect shoe boxes containing small gifts, which they then forward to needy children in Eastern Europe. (See www.21stcenturychild.org)

UNICEF: http://www.unicef.org.uk/store/InspireGifts.aspx?grp=5D86D4AA-E5A4-4DFD-8552-6EFCC8612CC1

Oxfam: buy someone a flock of chickens or a camel, or textbooks or satchels or dinners for a third world school. For these and many other life-changing or life-saving gifts, see www.oxfamunwrapped.com .

Aquabox Scheme: welfare items from a recommended list are collected to fill a water treatment box, which costs £50.00. This then becomes a useful kit that can be sent quickly to disaster areas. Each box is numbered and linked to the donor, so that you can find out where your box went. See www.aquabox.org for more information.

www.goodgifts.org: Buy useful items for the needy around the world

www.MakePovertyHistory.org

...and many more (if you had bothered to google your query you would have found them)

I am just wondering if you expect atheists to do their good deeds in "the name of atheism"? Do you realise how stupid that is? How can you do something in the "name" of a non-belief?

Atheists give in the name of their fellow human beings, so check out some humanist sites for more information.

91. Atheism is pretentious and cowardly

Comment #48224 by Luthien on June 7, 2007 at 5:43 am

I posted this on the Guardian site:

WOW, what a great parody of all those aggressive rants against atheism that The Guardian has been printing recently. I particularly loved this little gem:

"Atheism is pretentious in the sense of claiming to know more than it does."

Priceless eh? ;-)

92. 6 Billion Bits of Data About Me, Me, Me!

Comment #47912 by Luthien on June 6, 2007 at 3:07 am

"Some people are going to have information that they don't know what to do with," said Angela Trepanier, president elect of the National Society of Genetic Counselors. "And that can do more harm than good."

Yes Ms Trepanier, but it's better than a hole in the head ;-)

93. Religion and Child Abuse

Comment #47590 by Luthien on June 5, 2007 at 3:21 am

Bizarro Dawkins

A vacuum is indeed full of things, it is full of virtual particles; pairs of particles and A vacuum is indeed full of things, it is full of virtual particles; pairs of particles and anti-particles that are created and annihilated constantly in an effect that can give visible results in some physics experiments. If these particles can appear from a little bit of quantum uncertainty, then given enough time (infinity) could a whole universe appear? You may be correct in asserting that a vacuum is "something", as it could be the entire universe ;-)

I also disagree that bad religion is the sole source of instilment of corrupt values. Just look at any number of communist or formerly communist secular societies. Their children were still indoctrinated in corrupt values

You are correct in the above statement too, because any ideology that infringes upon the rights of other individuals is just as bad as religion. You Americans have a saying about the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, and that is what needs to be protected from all religions and ideologies.

What right does the state have to monitor the values that parents instill in their children?

None whatsoever, (until they cross the line to psychological abuse of course) but they do have a duty to educate them with the knowledge to make their way in the world (proper sex education for example), and I am concerned that parents who isolate their children for religious reasons are deeply harming them (can they form proper relationships with their peers, or learn by themselves?). Privately funded (or in some countries publicly funded) indoctrination centres are another matter entirely, and should be banned!

I can tell people about my perfectly rational faith in the God who gives me hope without being fined for spreading my beliefs. I can even curse my own country without a care in the world. God forbid that any government ever tells me what to teach my own children.

I'm glad you can stand up for your rights, but other people have their rights too. There is no Atheist on this site that wouldn't stand up for your personal rights, but we also stand up for the rights of others who's lifestyles you may not agree with, and we stand up for the rights of children to get a proper science education no matter what stories their parents believe.

The main beef we have with religion on this site is that it teaches people that they need to infringe other peoples rights in their private lives for their own good. This phrase when refering to something that is not hurting anyone else (and I exclude the whole hell fire crap from that definition) should set off alarm bells with you.

94. Beggars belief: Robin McKie on The God Delusion

Comment #47125 by Luthien on June 3, 2007 at 4:16 am

the Catholic Herald accused the author of churning out 'philosophical nonsense'.

hehe, really?

Anyway, my post is really just an excuse to show you this little gem I found:

http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/patron00.htm

oh, and check out the patron saint of the internet!

95. U.S. a theocratic state, says former Canadian ambassador

Comment #46898 by Luthien on June 2, 2007 at 5:41 am

Canadians have this Irish mentality — 'Here comes our leader, pass us a rock.

Hehe, I was going to get all sulky for a moment there, but he may have a point.

96. Atheism shall make you free

Comment #46893 by Luthien on June 2, 2007 at 5:17 am

I would also be interested to hear about those twin studies, as I was asking in another thread (a few days ago) if anyone knew of a twin study for religiousness.

97. Atheism shall make you free

Comment #46892 by Luthien on June 2, 2007 at 5:15 am

4. Comment #46832 by james_the_doubter on June 1, 2007 at 10:02 pm

Yup, yup, yup... I found myself agreeing with almost all of that.

To quote:
"The studies - of which there are now many - indicate that a tendency to religiosity is genetically determined; if one twin is very religious the other nearly always is too, no matter how they were brought up. For believers, such studies should raise a confronting question: why would an all-loving God create some of his people without the capacity for believing in him, and then, according to scriptures, send them to eternal hellfire for not believing in him?"

As a Christian, I have been quietly wondering the same thing for years.

A similar situation that I have put to a few christian friends is the question of homosexuality. There is now clear evidence of what gay people have been saying for years, that there is no "choice" in this supposed "lifestyle choice", because it was determined by your genes and hormone levels during foetal development. It simply doesn't make sense to me that a loving god would deliberately make people that were by his own laws destined for eternal torture.

98. What I Think About Evolution

Comment #46525 by Luthien on May 31, 2007 at 2:38 pm

Those aspects of evolutionary theory compatible with this truth are a welcome addition to human knowledge. Aspects of these theories that undermine this truth, however, should be firmly rejected as an atheistic theology posing as science.

We should all email this man with the dictionary definition of confirmation bias...

...in fact, this should be added to the dictionary as an example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

99. The Dawkins delusion

Comment #46156 by Luthien on May 30, 2007 at 12:04 pm

Snail said: Is it not a valid point of view, that if you take two identical individuals, and raise one in the presence and the other in the absence of religion, the one that no matter what small comfort the religion exposed individual has derived from their delusion, the individual that has never known religion will never suffer guilt over 'sins' they may have committed, will never have persecuted others for having a variant delusion, will never have tried to repent for sins, never suffered at the thought of a deceased loved one suffering in purgatory or prayed for their early release from purgatory, will never have used up hours of their life in prayer to a non-existent higher being to raise them from their mortal suffering, rather than realise they have control over their own life.

Definitely, and I don't really think that "belief" or "non belief" can be things that in themselves make people happy. It is much more to do with the relationships you form with others, and whether you have a comfortable life without too much pain or worry. The following quote refers to tyrany, but I think it applies equally to religion:

It cannot be denied that nature is influential in shaping us to her will and making us reveal our rich or meager endowment; yet it must be admitted that she has less power over us than custom, for the reason that native endowment, no matter how good, is dissipated unless encouraged, whereas environment always shapes us in its own way, whatever that may be, in spite of nature's gifts...
...Lycurgus, the lawgiver of Sparta, is reported to have reared two dogs of the same litter by fattening one in the kitchen and training the other in the fields to the sound of the bugle and the horn, thereby to demonstrate to the Lacedaemonians that men, too, develop according to their early habits. He set the two dogs in the open market place, and between them he placed a bowl of soup and a hare. One ran to the bowl of soup, the other to the hare; yet they were, as he maintained, born brothers of the same parents. In such manner did this leader, by his laws and customs, shape and instruct the Spartans so well that any one of them would sooner have died than acknowledge any sovereign other than law and reason.

Etienne La Boetie (Yes, I've just discovered his existence and have been reading him all day)

Science often uses twins studies to seperate out the effects of nature and nurture. What I would like to see is a study of twins seperated at birth, where one was brought up in a religious family, and one brought up without any beliefs.

100. The Dawkins delusion

Comment #46118 by Luthien on May 30, 2007 at 9:22 am

Nice post, I think you have hit the nail on the head :-)

As an aside (sorry if I ramble a bit), I often wonder if there is some way to trigger the cascade of chemical reactions in the brain (whatever they happen to be) that cause placebo effects, without needing to make the person "believe" anything that isn't true. The so called unconscious part of the brain (although I understand that the entire brain is involved in the experience of consciousness, even the motor areas) seems to have a greater power over the body's healing abilities than we realise. If we could switch this on at will it would be wonderful.

Again, I cautiously advise anyone against slipping into thinking too confidently 'That's me! Clear mind, far-sighted spirit – my middle names!'...

Heh, don't the scientologists claim to get into a state of mind called "clear"? (Perhaps they really mean "empty".) I think that those minds that are the clearest are probably the most aware of how muddled the human mind actually is (something similar to the way insane people never realise they are mad).

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