51. Spanish parliament to extend rights to apes

Comment #199811 by Vaal on June 26, 2008 at 11:32 am

Sorry, typo. HaHa!

52. Spanish parliament to extend rights to apes

Comment #199805 by Vaal on June 26, 2008 at 11:28 am

8. Comment #199797 by Barbara

Barbara, it is all about education. People should be encouraged to have less children, with tax benefits etc. The population of parts of Europe are in decline, except for the muslim immigrants, where their poor woman are hardly more than breeding machines.

The world population is unsustainable, it has more than doubled since I was born, and by 2050 it will be closing on 10 million. The world isn't an infinite resource. We have already nearly emptied the oceans, are fighting over water resources, and are responsible for a massive extinction event.

Yes, the holy grail of population growth should be addressed sensibly. We have no other choice. However, religion is one of the greatest obstacles, although ironically the Catholic church's condemnation of condoms is responsible for a world aids epidemic.

53. A War On Science

Comment #199799 by Vaal on June 26, 2008 at 11:17 am

So does he have infinite mass? In which case, we can measure him. Is God a black hole?

54. A War On Science

Comment #199763 by Vaal on June 26, 2008 at 10:35 am

131. Comment #199748 by Oystein Elgaroy

A silly question that often pops up in my mind when I here theists talk about "inference to the best explanation" is how many adjustable parameters God has. It would be useful to know before one starts to compare explanations.

Oystein, Exactly!

55. Spanish parliament to extend rights to apes

Comment #199752 by Vaal on June 26, 2008 at 10:15 am

So, now these primates can join the other primates in the Catholic church with an equal footing?

Watch out Darth Ratty, you have some competition for your job!

56. God hates Mars

Comment #199749 by Vaal on June 26, 2008 at 10:10 am

Wow, Anna, must have been a nightmare for your parents when you were a nipper (English slang for youngster).

My sister had twin boys, both over 7lb's when born and she breast fed them both till they were over two, and is a great advocate for the benefits of breast milk. They certainly seem healthy enough.

As long as I am not allergic to beer, I am happy! :-)

I was doing a night dive in the coral sea off Cairns, and was in a cave, when a shape bigger then me was heading straight at me. I was convinced it was a shark, but fortunately, it was a turtle bigger than me. Not a loggerhead, but a green turtle. Magnificent!

109. Comment #199685 by steveroot

Steve, I added my comment to www.standfortruthonline.com. Doesn't seem to have been removed yet..

Well done. You are a prime example of a quote from the great Albert Einstein..
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

57. A War On Science

Comment #199740 by Vaal on June 26, 2008 at 9:18 am

One thing that puzzles me. Surely the religites should be in support of science, as it should prove that their particular deity exists. After all, there must be some evidence of him. Surely he would leave some evidence of his existence to the faithful, other than a bronze age book written by the credulous and superstitious ...

Oh wait...

58. PZ Myers - Science and Atheism in the Blogosphere

Comment #199676 by Vaal on June 26, 2008 at 7:19 am

Steve

The attitude they remind me of is of a golfer who has just had a hole in one. From the religious viewpoint it as if their whole life was dedicated to that one moment where they achieved the hole in one. Of course, it was almost pure luck, and if they hit the ball from exactly the same spot for the rest of their lives, they may never achieve that hole in one again.

59. God hates Mars

Comment #199657 by Vaal on June 26, 2008 at 6:46 am

100. Comment #199654 by annabanana

Sadly, I will not be participating in the chocolate discussion since I am allergic.

My goodness Annabanana, most girls I know would consider that a tragedy. Still, the worst chocoholics are quite spotty, so it is probably good for your skin.

What's that you are sat on? David Roberston emerging from the ocean? :-)

EDIT: Apologise, how can I compare that cute fluffy turtle to that old misery fleathinker.

60. God hates Mars

Comment #199645 by Vaal on June 26, 2008 at 6:10 am

I would have thought Europa, one of the moons of Jupiter, was a better candidate for life than Mars. There are good reasons to believe that there is a huge ocean under the ice, kept warm by tidal generated heat from Jupiter. Life on Europa could exist around hydrothermal vents on the ocean floor, as found in the deepest parts of the Earth's oceans. It would be worth every penny to find that out!

Of course, the Cretinists would just change the goal posts if life was found outside the Earth, as they always do when the "Goddiit" gaps evaporate. However, I would look forward to it as it would be a major paradigm for peoples concept of life, particular religion, and another hammer blow to the small mindedness and arrogance of the Cretinists.

I remember a great cartoon when the Viking lander arrived on Mars, with a Martian holding a picture of a desert in front of the Viking lander's camera, while behind him there was a jungle. Maybe the Martian had a dog collar and this was his "burning bush" moment? :-) So, God is really made in the image of a Martian.

EDIT: Perhaps the money for the search of knowledge should come from the Church's coffers from tax that they get away without paying. That would be a much better use of it than wasting it on the teaching of ignorance.

Oh, I am quite partial to a Galaxy bar :-)

61. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #199577 by Vaal on June 26, 2008 at 3:02 am

Philip

Is that right that Mormon's don't drink tea and coffee? Man, I think I would die without a good cup of tea first thing in the morning.

Why is it that the religious make up rules of what you can't do! They love to be spoil sports. I expect new cults look at other religions and think hmmm, what have we missed? Plus it gives a certain power over their cult members.

Now, does this mean that if one day the Mormons are the biggest religion in the US, that there will be prohibition on tea? Mind you, I asked for a cup of tea in America once and they gave me a glass full of cold tea.. .yeeeuuuukkk!

Edit: Maybe that was what it tasted like once they fished it back out of Boston harbour?

62. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199204 by Vaal on June 25, 2008 at 10:20 am

Comment #199170 by al-rawandi

I was just pointing out that Muslims get pretty rattled about "Moslem".

Al, I'm not too impressed at being described as a "Kafir" either, I regard it is offensive as any racist expression. I don't think the Islamic press can complain about any so called insults with the vile filth they print everyday about Jews, Christians and atheists.

Kafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كف�'ار kuffār) is an Arabic word meaning "rejecter" or "ingrate." In cultural terms, it is seen as a derogatory term used to describe an unbeliever, non-Muslims, apostate from Islam and even between Muslims of different sects

63. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #199018 by Vaal on June 25, 2008 at 4:24 am

Very good Epeeist. I will keep an eye out for them. I hadn't heard of that, representation by zone. Who gets the gold medals then, Europe? Seems daft, and it adds a lot of pressure on the competitor's. Hard enough to represent your country, never mind your Continent.

Still, I do believe that pentathletes represent Britain? Hope that Alice Fitton keeps it up.

My old athletic coach just had a lifetime celebration award for 40 years of coaching. He produced a Commonwealth champion in the 10,000 metres, a guy called Jon Solly, and an Olympic trialist in the 400m. I was no more than a county sprinter. I notice now that the athletic club (Newbury) now has to pay for a child safety officer, at extra cost. How sad is that. How much things have changed since I was a youngster.

Keep up the good work, coaching is a very important job, and good coaches are getting harder to come by.

64. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199006 by Vaal on June 25, 2008 at 2:43 am

132. Comment #199003 by EricTheRed

Now what if the Sheik was gay? Would he consider men as uncovered meat who attract sexual predators? Better not wear shorts then! The misogyny of Islam never fails to surprise me. Seems like they are saying that all men are sexual predators, what a pack of wank*rs. Just 'cos Mohammed was!

65. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #198998 by Vaal on June 25, 2008 at 2:11 am

Hungarian

Just 'cos I am grumpy when interrupted when watching sport. Normally most of the women I know ring me when there is a rugby test match on, or if they ring me when the sprints are on, I am an utter demon, especially if it is some poxy call centre ringing to ask me to do a survey! Better to preclude it. If it is an emergency they can ring back. Yep, one of my weaknesses, I am afraid. :-)

66. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #198995 by Vaal on June 25, 2008 at 1:51 am

Off Topic. So Epeeist, are you training any potential Olympians? Do we have any potential Olympic medallists in the fencing? Must say I am really looking forward to the Olympics, as my sport was athletics as a youngster. However, I love all sports, particularly swimming and gymnastics.

Yep, I am a grumpy bu*ger if I am disturbed while the Olympics are on (grumpier than usual that is). My sisters used to love ringing me up when the 100m final was on. Now I disconnect the phone! :-)

I am really looking forward to the London Olympics in 2012, and expect to go and see a lot of events. In fact, the rowing venue is just down the road at Eton, it is one of my cycling routes.

67. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198989 by Vaal on June 25, 2008 at 1:14 am

Pity one of his wives didn't do a Bobbit on the disgusting old goat!

Edit: Of course, the downside of that would be that he would have been an even bigger misogynist than he already was. Woe betide any women in Islam then!

68. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198737 by Vaal on June 24, 2008 at 12:14 pm

4. Comment #198657 by ThoughtsonCommonToad

Muhammad really is quite vile, Jesus wasn't that bad. Not great but relative to a warmongering paedo.

Well, don't know if Jesus can get off the hook that easily, as according to the Gospels of Thomas, he was a murderer at the age of 5...

After that again he went through the village, and a child ran and dashed against his shoulder. And Jesus was provoked and said unto him: Thou shalt not finish thy course. And immediately he fell down and died. But certain when they saw what was done said: Whence was this young child born, for that every word of his is an accomplished work? And the parents of him that was dead came unto Joseph, and blamed him, saying: Thou that hast such a child canst not dwell with us in the village: or do thou teach him to bless and not to curse: for he slayeth our children.

And Joseph called the young child apart and admonished him, saying: Wherefore doest thou such things, that these suffer and hate us and persecute us? But Jesus said: I know that these thy words are not thine: nevertheless for thy sake I will hold my peace: but they shall bear their punishment. And straightway they that accused him were smitten with blindness. 2 And they that saw it were sore afraid and perplexed, and said concerning him that every word which he spake whether it were good or bad, was a deed, and became a marvel. And when they (he ?) saw that Jesus had so done, Joseph arose and took hold upon his ear and wrung it sore. 3 And the young child was wroth and said unto him: It sufficeth thee (or them) to seek and not to find, and verily thou hast done unwisely: knowest thou not that I am thine? vex me not.

I don't know if there was any description of his relationship with women in any document. I would have thought it quite strange in those days that he would have reached the age of 30 and not been married. Was there any indication he was gay?

69. Did pre-big bang universe leave its mark on the sky?

Comment #198720 by Vaal on June 24, 2008 at 11:51 am

That bloody teapot again! :-)

70. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198678 by Vaal on June 24, 2008 at 11:05 am

TeraBrat

Correct me if I am wrong Al, but wasn't Mohammad in his 50's when he consummated his marriage with a 9 year old child. It wouldn't have had anything to do with having as many children as possible, as he probably had many offspring by then. It was no more than a sick old man lusting after a child. Was there nothing that their Prophet could do that would make his followers actually think "what a complete tosser".

I see now why women in Islam have to hide themselves from men who aren't their husbands (possessions). Islam presumes that practically all men are nothing more than sexual predators, in fact just like their prophet, who is such a good example.

71. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198652 by Vaal on June 24, 2008 at 10:49 am

The Prophet Muhammad is the model we follow. He took 'Aisha to be his wife when she was six, but he had sex with her only when she was nine.

So, your model is a self serving sexual monster imposing himself on little more than a child. As I have said before, if I had met this sick bast*d, I would have beaten him to an inch of his life.

If Mohammad had jumped off a cliff, would these brain dead sheep follow him? What a shame he didn't.

72. Philadelphia Set to Honor Darwin and Evolution

Comment #198619 by Vaal on June 24, 2008 at 10:06 am

Ken Ham

"The culture war is definitely heating up," he said

What has truth and the scientific method got to do with culture? What a ridiculous statement.

"We will try to find ways of persuading people that it's not in conflict with their faith," Dr. Brown said.

Really? I would have thought evolution demolished faith. If it wasn't for a geological accident causing the rift valley, we wouldn't be here. If you reran evolution again from scratch, the probability of humanity arising would be infinitesimally small. We are not the end result of evolution, we are just a branch of it. Any small change would have seen something, perhaps profoundly different arise.

Hardly God's plan, I would have thought. In fact, if you reran the Universe again, would the Earth have even existed? What if the Moon had missed us, or there not been enough mass to make the Earth the object it is, or it had a captured face to the sun, like Venus, or the Sun had been more massive and burnt out before life could arise?

73. Did pre-big bang universe leave its mark on the sky?

Comment #198523 by Vaal on June 24, 2008 at 7:50 am

Ouch Oystein

That has hurt my head. Still, at least I learned a new word .. anisotropic.

Edit: So where do I point my telescope to get the lottery results?

74. Should We Rid The Mind of God? A Debate

Comment #198500 by Vaal on June 24, 2008 at 6:40 am

Egg and chips? McGrath strikes me more as a peas man :-)

75. Did pre-big bang universe leave its mark on the sky?

Comment #198447 by Vaal on June 24, 2008 at 1:38 am

Blimey,

Thought I was joking when I mentioned that Cern might create a black hole and suck us all up, but there is a report shown on the BBC by the European Organization for Nuclear Research investigating if this could occur.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7468966.stm

Lets hope they are right. Sounds like science fiction. Maybe we are going to create a new Universe. What an irony that maybe WE might be God! :-) HaHa!

Steve, what do you reckon? (tongue in cheek)

76. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198349 by Vaal on June 23, 2008 at 3:44 pm

Hmmm, that is worrying Goldy.uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuijh...
sorry, that was my cat running across the keyboard.

Pity the religious Egyptians didn't go back to worshiping the old Egyptian Gods, a lot less destructive than the scourge of Islam. At least my cat will be a lot safer being a God :-)

Can you imagine if the Islamist idiots are in charge in Egypt. They would destroy thousands of years of world history, a heritage that belongs to us all, in the name of their religion. What a desecration to humanity that would be.

77. Blind Faiths

Comment #198318 by Vaal on June 23, 2008 at 2:50 pm

TeraBrat

I once said to a Christian, "Well Jesus was a Jew as well". He replied indignantly "No he wasn't, he was a Christian!"

For once, I was speechless.

Edit: How did that come out highlighted?

78. The Flea Delusion

Comment #198313 by Vaal on June 23, 2008 at 2:47 pm

Ah Fleathinker, back again.

78. Comment #197939 by clearthinker

what do I know?

Man, I couldn't have said it better myself.

79. Sarcasm Seen as Evolutionary Survival Skill

Comment #198294 by Vaal on June 23, 2008 at 2:02 pm

Ah, it didn't do Father Jessup, the most sarcastic priest alive, much good in Father Ted episode "kicking Bishop Brennan up the arse". He ended up locked in Father Jack's used underwear basket, and he was very thirsty...

Mrs Doyle: Would you like a cup of tea Bishop?
Father Jessup: No, we'd rather die of t'irst (thirst)
Mrs Doyle: Are you sure you wouldn't like a cup?
Father Jessup: No, we'd rather die of thirst...
Mrs Doyle: (nodding and turning) Ok so...

If nobody has seen this, highly recommended.

80. Carlin on Religion

Comment #198279 by Vaal on June 23, 2008 at 1:27 pm

Class! Never seen him before. I will be sending this one on to my friends. A great loss, the more comedians the better to satirize the nonsense of religion.

Edit: Not sure I believe in the Sun God. I live in England and have never seen him :-))

81. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #198267 by Vaal on June 23, 2008 at 1:10 pm

Yep, I agree decius

It is a shame that most of the time spent on these forums are refuting the same old tedious arguments by Cretinists who are willfully ignorant, whose assertions are decimated by logic and science, yet, in the end you might as well try and knock down the Eiffel tower with a water pistol.

It is valiant of Steve, Epeeist, Mphil, Cartomancer, Brian and many of the others to try and engage with them. However, I am encouraged when somebody new comes to the board and sees through the religious inanity. However it is rare, and most of the passing Cretinists in the end, are only worthy of Irate's wonderful description.

82. White Patches Found in Mars Trench Are Ice, Scientists Say

Comment #198256 by Vaal on June 23, 2008 at 12:53 pm

This is why I love science.

There is a great piece on the BBC website about an Australian amateur astronomer observing a huge storm on Saturn. The guy shows such unfettered enthusiasm, it is a delight to listen to him.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7468832.stm

His telescope makes my little ETX 125 reflector look like a toy. Man, I would give my right arm to live under those wonderful dark clear skies.

83. Bright Chunks At Phoenix Lander's Mars Site Must Have Been Ice

Comment #198181 by Vaal on June 23, 2008 at 10:15 am

Maverickman

Brilliant avatar. How did you do it? Looks like a David Roberston debate :-))

84. On this Day: Galileo Sentenced for Believing Sun Is Center of Universe

Comment #197709 by Vaal on June 22, 2008 at 2:14 pm

The church is still debating that the Earth isn't going around the sun?

Mordatious1

Yes, and it took 475 years for the pope to issue a half-assed apology

Yep, not exactly a hot line to God is it? Also, Darth Ratzinger has being trying to absolve the Church of their responsibility recently.

85. What Happens When a School Board of Religious Zealots Will 'Lie for Jesus'?

Comment #197671 by Vaal on June 22, 2008 at 1:13 pm

Come on decius

No doubt about that one... Ben Stein!

86. What Happens When a School Board of Religious Zealots Will 'Lie for Jesus'?

Comment #197664 by Vaal on June 22, 2008 at 1:01 pm

AllanW

You are absolutely right :-)

Jodie Foster? How about it?

87. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #197649 by Vaal on June 22, 2008 at 12:29 pm

Teratornis

I agree cycling is one of the best ways of getting fit. When I lived in Sydney, my cycling route was very hilly, but I was in peak condition. I hated it to start, but quite looked forward to it in the end. When I changed jobs and took the ferry across the harbour to work, I got a lot less fit, but I have to say, it was a wonderful way to start the day.

At present, I am cycling to work and trying to reduce my driving to essentials. However, that is more because I am absolutely determined not to give that pirate Gordon Brown an extra brass cent in tax!

88. What Happens When a School Board of Religious Zealots Will 'Lie for Jesus'?

Comment #197636 by Vaal on June 22, 2008 at 12:08 pm

I hope this book is made into a film. It will show exactly the campaign of deceit perpetrated by the Cretinists. A film could be a much more powerful vehicle of information than a book, unfortunately.

Tom Hanks? How about it?

89. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #197625 by Vaal on June 22, 2008 at 11:52 am

Fanusi

Is that correct, the article from Churchill? My goodness. You should publish it as a comment on the Independent article. Can you imagine if they tried to convict Churchill if he was alive today of this "hate" crime.

Yes, I agree about subsidizing some of the great works of the dissidents, I regard Ayaan Hirsi's book "Infidel", as up there with Anne Frank. It should be required reading in school.

90. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #197599 by Vaal on June 22, 2008 at 11:11 am

Good. About time some people grew a backbone and describe Islamism as it is. No doubt some demented mullah will stamp a fatwah on him, as they do on anyone who dares to criticize their backward religion. The more journalists and writers who stand up and confront medieval Islam and challenge the nonsense of "Islamaphobia" and the ludicrous call of racism the better.

I wonder how Winston Churchill, if he was alive today, would describe the cancer of aggressive fundamentalist Islam? I suspect he wouldn't pull any punches!

91. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #197423 by Vaal on June 22, 2008 at 2:58 am

Wheres clearthinker this morning? He is normally back on Sundays shortly after bleating to the flock, wielding his sword of inanity on the "unbelievers".

Maybe he has taken on board the points that several people have made about it being a sin posting on the Sabbath. Better get my beard and buy some stones ready for the stoning!

I will beat you to it David. We are all fundamentalist atheists and YOU believe, so we are all immoral and can't see the evidence that doesn't exist. There you are, saved you the bother, back to the sheep.... baa baa...

92. Rapture site sends unbelievers their last chance ... via email

Comment #197184 by Vaal on June 21, 2008 at 9:56 am

Has anyone wondered what would happen to poor Jesus if he did return? I suspect that he would either be put into an asylum, or the Evangelists would accuse him of blasphemy, or the Muslims would try to chop his head off.

What would be the litmus test? If he can change water to wine, he can stay at my house as long as he wants!

93. Bright Chunks At Phoenix Lander's Mars Site Must Have Been Ice

Comment #196718 by Vaal on June 20, 2008 at 11:21 am

5. Comment #196703 by scottishgeologist

am old enough to remember growing up in the late 60s early 70s when the Moon missions were happening. What an exciting time for a child with an interest in science that was!

Me too. I remember the first Mariner probes going past Mars, and how disappointed the astronomers were. Also, when Viking first landed. Awesome!

Now, we can just look at pictures taken of Mars and Saturn on the Internet every day, images that you could hardly have conceived of, and just take it for granted. What a wonderful time to be alive!

94. Bright Chunks At Phoenix Lander's Mars Site Must Have Been Ice

Comment #196713 by Vaal on June 20, 2008 at 11:13 am

4. Comment #196690 by 35bluejacket

God please...let them find a bone. Any kind of bone

Would have been put there by Satan of course!

95. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196666 by Vaal on June 20, 2008 at 10:08 am

161. Comment #196654 by al-rawandi

But half my family is from New Zealand. I want to know should I feel guilty about Native Americans, Maoris, or both?

So, Al, does this mean that you should feel collective guilt about the Maori's colonizing NZ (the land of the long white cloud) and eating the poor old Mori Ori's :-)

96. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196643 by Vaal on June 20, 2008 at 9:24 am

I don't see any point in going over actions taken in the past by countries colonizing others. All of them had their hands dirty, and colonialism was regarded in those days as an acceptable policy, not least to spread Christianity. I don't think we can turn the Zeitgeist of modern times back to 200 years ago or longer. Most people then would just not recognise it as being a bad thing at all. I expect that they regarded the indigenous populations as pests, and that it was now their land by conquest. They were bringing civilisation and Christianity to the heathens.

However, it is horrendous to read about it now. I was shocked when I read "bury your heart at wounded knee", and many other stories such as the appalling destruction of the cultures of Polynesia by the missionaries. The genocide of the Tasmanian aborigines etc. All countries have a dark past, including the genocide perpetrated in the name of God in the land of Caanan by the Jews.

It is all history, and the best we can do is learn from it.

97. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196427 by Vaal on June 20, 2008 at 12:17 am

Utter bullshit. What is going on with the world?

If there is any subject it is religion which is most ripe for robust criticism about their appalling human rights record. Seems like the Muslims are desperate to stop any debate about their religion. What a complete farce. Who are these cretins that make these decisions? NOT on my behalf!!!!

98. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196068 by Vaal on June 19, 2008 at 9:09 am

Irate

Summer Solstice tomorrow. Can you bring back dancing around the woods naked please. That looks like much more fun than being stuck in some dull dark church being told how sinful we all are.

Oh, and can you replace wine and bread with Guinness and pork pies please.

99. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195908 by Vaal on June 19, 2008 at 3:03 am

184. Comment #195814 by irate_atheist

Irate, first of all, brilliant post. As usual, most commentators here shredding Robertson's crass inanities to shreds. Not that he will take a blind bit of notice. Quite a lot of words just to describe a fucktard.

162. Comment #195589 by clearthinker

The Galileo myth for example was far more to do about Italian politics than it was religion or the Bible.

Nothing mythical about it, it was very well documented. However much spin you put on it, Galileo was accused of heresy. He could have been burnt at the stake, as the poor unfortunate Giordano Bruno, but was put under house arrest for the rest of his life and not allowed to publish any of his works in his lifetime. If you don't regard that as religious persecution, then you really are a willfully ignorant imbecile.

Lets make clear the Church's view of the status of the Earth...

Western Christian biblical references Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, and 1 Chronicles 16:30 include text stating that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." In the same tradition, Psalm 104:5 says, "the LORD set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Further, Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "And the sun rises and sets and returns to its place, etc

Here are the heresy charges Galileo was accused of..

Galileo was required to abjure the opinion that the Sun lies motionless at the centre of the universe, and that the Earth is not at its centre and moves; the idea that the Sun is stationary was condemned as "formally heretical."

# The proposition that the sun is in the center of the world and immovable from its place is absurd, philosophically false, and formally heretical; because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scriptures", and the converse as to the Sun's not revolving around the Earth.
# He was ordered imprisoned; the sentence was later commuted to house arrest.
# His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.

Galileo died in 1642. The Inquisition's ban on reprinting Galileo's works was lifted in 1718, nearly a century after his death. The Catholic church finally apologized in 1992, and officially conceded that the Earth was not stationary, only 400 years later (very nice of them). However worryingly Darth Ratzinger is trying his best to absolve the Church from any responsibility, with spin Tony Blair would be proud of.

Now. lets look at the unfortunate Giordano Bruno in more detail..

Bruno held firm to his belief in the plurality of worlds, although he was admonished to abandon it. His trial was overseen by the inquisitor Cardinal Bellarmine, who demanded a full recantation, which Bruno eventually refused. Instead he appealed in vain to Pope Clement VIII, hoping to save his life through a partial recantation. The Pope expressed himself in favour of a guilty verdict. Consequently, Bruno was declared a heretic. At his trial he listened to the verdict on his knees, then stood up and said: "Perhaps you, my judges, pronounce this sentence against me with greater fear than I receive it." A month or so later he was brought to the Campo de' Fiori, a central Roman market square, his jaw clamped in an iron gag and an iron spike driven through his tongue. He was tied to a pole naked and burned at the stake, on February 17, 1600.

In case you are in any doubt, lets look at how the dictionary describes heresy.

One who holds to a heresy; one who believes some doctrine contrary to the established faith or prevailing religion

Finally, yes, we would like to hear your evidence of your supernatural entity. Since you have been on this board, you haven't provided an iota. In fact, what you would consider as evidence wouldn't persuade my cat. As I said, zero evidence. Just because you believe it, doesn't make it true.

EDIT: Makes you think what would have happened to poor old Darwin if he had been around then.

100. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195440 by Vaal on June 18, 2008 at 8:18 am

No, no, no please don't encourage Mr Robertson!! Even if Steve does have a point.

108. Comment #195326 by mixmastergaz

I'm so afraid of my folks' reaction to my lack of faith that I've not told them. It would cause them terrible distress to believe that their son was going to burn for all eternity. I have to hide my copies of New Humanist when they come to visit!

Mixmastergaz, not quite sure how you are going to keep it a secret from them if you are in the papers, TV or on the Internet debating with Mr Robertson. Oh, I loved your comment about your teaching techniques in religious studies.

I agree with many others, a pleasure having you on the site Oystein, cosmology is, along with quantum physics something I am very interested in, but struggle to understand as a layman. Having a professional cosmologist on the forum is an asset indeed.