1151. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147084 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 7:06 pm

So then being gay is like having a hair colour. You can be red headed, going through blonde to brown and varying shades until you've a fine head of jet black hair.
So how is hair colour determined - and could the same mechanism not work with sexuality?

1152. Fleabytes

Comment #147073 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 6:34 pm

I am part German and can attest that it isn't just they that wear socks and sandals - I've seen Brits, Canadians and Americans do it too; tends to be age related!

Hmmm, maybe a German component there? Mind you, that doesn't explain Bonzai, but his dress sense sounds like our recently doctorated ex-PhD student from Hong Kong. My wife is itching to give her a makeover.... ;-D
I generally don't wear socks in the summer, but the transition times (Spring and Autumn/Fall) brings out the socked sandal. Or I wear clogs (http://www.clogs.co.uk/) - you can wear them forever without socks and they'll not smell! Amazing things!

1153. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147068 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 6:29 pm

Homosexual behaviour were a lot more widespread in pagan societies such as ancient Greece and ancient China. It is unlikely that they were drastically different from us genetically.

Dare say it would be now if it weren't for some people deciding it's a "sin" and trying to make people change.
Homosexuality is not that openly admitted in China now, is it? At least, that's the impression I get from my wife.

1154. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147064 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 6:23 pm

1) Correlation is not causation, there may be a correlation of the presence of some structure and certain behaviour but it doesn't prove one causes the other.

2) Having a "genetic component" is not the same as saying that there is a gay gene. I think the connection leading from genes to sexual behaviour is complex and convoluted, it is not like your eye colour or nose shape.

I agree - said so when I first mentioned it regarding point 1. As for the "gay gene" I dare say there's a whole heap of things that control the processes that leads to the sexuality of the person. I'm not 100% sure it is all down to just the one gene, though there may be. Might even be part of a cascade - so if you block one gene, the process stops.
But I don't know, so I'll leave it at that :-)

1155. Sci-fi guru Clarke to have secular funeral

Comment #147062 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 6:18 pm

PArt and parcel of funerals are commemoration. Here's something I thought ratehr nice...in today's Telegraph

Arthur C Clarke's orbit

Sir - One of Arthur C. Clarke's inspirations was the "synchronous geostationary orbit". Let us honour his memory by always referring to satellites as being in a "Clarke Orbit".

Rodney Witter, Chester

1156. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147007 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 4:49 pm

How do you know they are there?

Good question - the hippocampal studies might suggest there is a genetic component. As it is, the sexuality one has isn't really chosen - you are what you are, as it were, which suggests, at least to me, that there is a genetic component.

1157. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147006 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 4:48 pm

Should I say "don't produce any children" or "don't produce any child"? "Don't produce any child" seems grammatically more correct but doesn't sound right. :-)

Think the "any" implies more than one child, hence children. Don't produce a child/don't produce any children, that sort of thing.

1158. Fleabytes

Comment #146983 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 4:04 pm

yes, but the Germans also wear lederhosen. Shudder.

I believe the popularity of said apparel is more a Southern german thing. I still miss mine...wore them around the age of 5-10 - never need cleaning. Ah, well.
I'm off too - catch you all later!

1159. Fleabytes

Comment #146980 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 3:57 pm

As everyone knows, you never wear socks with sandals.

Unless you are German...then it's de riguer!

1160. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #146979 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 3:54 pm

There has to be, otherwise it would not be there.

Maybe - the societal thing helps. I did put a lot of "think" and "maybe" in my piece :-) But I don't see it as, say, as important as skin colour or eye colour in the grand scheme of things. It is there in all populations (and species, I believe) and it does not affect the population growth any. Maybe I'd put it there with hairiness :-)
These are, however, my personal views.
Male nipples - good temperature sensors, great for stimulating and for hanging nipple rings on ;-) As Steve said, kinda hard to get rid of them as women actually use theirs for feeding children. Bit like those useless blanked off spaces in economy cars to remind you what you saved your money on when you didn't by the higher spec cars :-)
Right, back to the grindstone - work does get in the way. At least there's some religious festival coming up that gives me a few days off :-)

1161. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #146873 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 1:57 pm

What is the evolutionary advantage of being gay? I am curious about the opinions on the matter.

Not sure there is a great evolutionary advantage - the sex drive is strong and can take over actions, as it were. I think it's more to do with the wiring in the body - we're pretty complex, after all and cannot all be the same. Hence we have very hetero people, half and half and very gay people, as well as all manner of inclinations in between.
I was watching Louise Theroux in a prison once - San Quentin, I think. He interviewed a white supremacist (I think - had just put daughter to bed and had to try and get the gist from what he was saying) who was having a relationship with a gay Jewish inmate. Outside, he was not gay. Inside, I guess we'd call him that.
I was at a boys boarding school and I have to admit quite strong urges for some of the other pupils. Once out and in a mixed society (university) I had no homosexual leanings at all - actually rather fancied girls who were adamant they didn't fancy a rather spotty youth (cursed acne!).
We all have the ability to be gay and we can all reproduce. Forcing your homosexuality underground and having children (a la the above article) probably perpetuates the stronger homosexual leanings (or not - all gays I know were from straight parents, but who knows how straight those parents were?).
As an aside, there was some study, if I can recall things correctly, about the brains of gay men being similar in structure to those of women (in the hippocampus? Tried looking it up and all I can find is something about gay men navigating as well as women - hmmm, wife is generally the navigator as I get lost easily...). Aha, I remeber them saying, see, it's biological. But as it isn't really possible to do biopsies of the brain throughout the life of the individual (hard to pinpoint gay at birth too), it's hard to say whether the the brain was born as the woman's or became as the woman's.
Either way, it's normal, natural, evolutionarily OK (doesn't really affect anything) though, as it doesn't lead to reproduction, remains as a minority.
Hope this doesn't make me sound bad!

1162. Fleabytes

Comment #146821 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 1:05 pm

The devil was at work with me then. The only thing is, if I were not a Christian I would be far, far worse

Doubt it. You'd still be the same person, athiest or believer. And there are no devils - just states of mind...and I purposely started teh sentence with "and"...I like living on the edge ;-)
Have to say with your new spelling you come across much much better. Intelligent and, well, normal.
In the funeral business, eh? I used to want to be a pathologist in my younger days. Work with students now...not much more reaction at times...

1163. Fleabytes

Comment #146318 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 12:02 am

I shall humbly enjoy watching you roast, along with your fellow atheist fools, from my vaunted place beside the Lord

Ooooh, a Satanist! Stands to reason - 1.6 billion people say you're condemned to hell. Lord of hell is Satan (or that other Greek god, one with Cerberus as his guard dog...).
Cool!
But...

I leave now. My task complete. I shall not return unless the Lord sends unto me another vision.

Well, how typical. Give us a taste of nothing, promises of spending eternity with some god and him (conversation will really be tiresome - thank Christ for Hell!) and now fucks off. Cheers mate!

RM

I didn't know you raised herds of Welshmen down there! How do they compare with sheep?

Not too bad. Not as wooly, but better at rugby ;-)

1164. Fleabytes

Comment #146317 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 11:58 pm

Feeling left out are we Goldy? Poor little soul awaiting the fire. Don't you see? Atheism is no shield against damnation! This is why you feel lost and need reassurance.

Damn right we wuz! That's better - now just don't leave me out again.
As for shields against damnation - we're all damned. You, me, RD, Steve, Clearthinker, that other religious dude. for every believer/unbeliever there's someone convinced we've got a one way ticket to hell. You're a-coming with us, old boy :-) One way or another, you're as fucked as we are :-D

1165. Fleabytes

Comment #146244 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 8:09 pm

Well, if I'm not worthy of a retort, then I'm not queueing. So there! You go to your place after death, I'll become a muslim and have my perpetual virgins.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Edit - I see you mention cattle fondlers. How do sheep shaggers stack up? Only saying because there is a large landmass about 3 hours flight away from where I live who engage in the practice. They even have the temerity to accuse us on this long clouded isle of indulging! Then, of course, there's the Welsh... ;-D

1166. Religious groups want Russian cartoon channel shut down

Comment #146223 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 7:37 pm

.....though they mark as being low in religion, most dont count other superstitions

Ask a mainland Chinese person what they are and I guess most will say they are athiest. But by 'eck are they superstitious!

1167. Immune system differences found

Comment #146221 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 7:35 pm

MaxD, indeed. Being in an interracial marriage, a lot of importance seems to be attached to the racial part of the marriage by some. This annoys me a bit as the cultural aspects are more divisive (if there are any arguments - me being phlegmatic to the point of comatose, I take the phrase "yes dear" to new levels :-)). And where does that leave my daughter?
That's why I'm not too enamoured with the word, though I will fully accept the concept.

1168. Immune system differences found

Comment #146201 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 6:38 pm

This is the kind of thing the BNP use to justify their racism

Dunno - thought skin colour and sexual orientation were more important to their ideology. I found out I have a mutation on my CYP2C19 gene. Doesn't really do much - I probably can't metabolise omeprazole as well as a wild type. This mutation isn't that common in Europe. Why do I bring this up? It is quite a common mutation in the Pacific islands. By bad reasoning, I must be a Pacific Islander - but I am not. So it doesn't work too well on the race thing.

Race is not the discredited idea some would like it to be

Race as a concept is OK but the thinking that it engenders has made me not fully accept it. However, having read some of Oppenheimer's books (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/science/06brits.html?scp=10&sq=british origins&st=nyt) I know there have been long periods of isolation and that these are remarkably conserved in populations even now.

1169. Fleabytes

Comment #146199 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 6:30 pm

More than that, I hope Goldy hasn't played with them first.

I'm still trying to find them, Brian!
Mind you, should wife know I was sort of looking, Eclair's vision will come true for me!

1170. Fleabytes

Comment #146197 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 6:28 pm

Not so humorous is it now then?

You're right - it's funnier :-D

Repent now. I shall return to accept your conversions for the glory of the Lord and I, his humble servant.

Nah, you come here because you like us. After all..

I have foreseen your response in my vision. I know that you will continue to exude inane replies that could never measure up to this humble servant's great responses given unto him by the Lord.

Kind of makes this line here redundant, don't it...

Who will open his heart to the Lord and let me lead them to salvation?

Aaaah, Eclair, you do amuse me greatly :-)

1171. In Britain, creationist theory is evolving

Comment #146188 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 6:08 pm

And once and for all SHUT UP about my spelling! Who has time to use a spell-checker? I'm at work!

Pissy excuse - I'm at work and I can use it. Mind you, I can spell (it's typing I'm shite at).
Now, about your grammar...
;-)

Edit - deludded?

Alan and Lee C - my, are you seriosly deludded!

This mean progressive? As in the opposite of being a luddite? Sounds like praise to me!

1172. Religious groups want Russian cartoon channel shut down

Comment #146183 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 6:02 pm

I never realised Russia allowed protestant churches. I thought the Orthodox Church saw them as a dangerous western import and sought to ban them. Imagine, the banned trying to ban things...

1173. Two More Fleas

Comment #146182 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 5:59 pm

Ooooh pictures! How do you put pictures here? I got a picture of a duck/dog transition in progress (amazing what jokes one gets in the emails) - that would keep the transitionalists happy :-)

1174. Fleabytes

Comment #146177 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 5:55 pm

Goldy. Would you like a moment alone to erm, gather your thoughts?

Ahem...feeling much better now. Why are people staring at me?
;-)

1175. Fleabytes

Comment #146167 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 5:44 pm

Are you ready to be saved from yourselves yet heathens?

Could you just give me 5 more minutes? Almost ready... ;-)
Have to say, you're really selling me onto this Satan label doof-doof music. Don't get me wrong, nothing I like better than some other god inspired music (guessing Satan is a god too) but the nubile bodies? Writhing nubile bodies? Oooooooh! :-q

1176. Religion 'linked to happy life'

Comment #146104 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 4:01 pm

I guess religion made these people happy too :-)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/world/middleeast/04youth.html?ref=world
Oddly, none of the Iranians I knew were totally happy with religion either. The Wee Frees were in the news recently about happiness in their brand of religion.
Here's ta thing about sharia - how muslims flock to it now in their pursuit of happiness...http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/16/magazine/16Shariah-t.html?pagewanted=1&ref=asia
(Yes, I am reading the NY Times during my lunch break).
Of course, religion may make people happy - they hear the voices in their heads as a comfort whereas the more rationally minded will worry about it. And if other religions seem distastefull, well, that's not their religion, is it (always said rather smugly) - their religion is happiness and fluffy.
Yep - religion makes you happy - well, how else can you stone someone with a clear conscience? Condemn someone to a lifetime of celibacy becasue of their sexuality and not feel a glimmer of remorse? To know someone will burn in hell, a place more horrible than anyone can ever imagine, and feel joy at the love of their god?
It's all bollocks. Religion makes you happy? Tell that to the late Ayatallah Khomeini - he was one happy sod...

1177. Fleabytes

Comment #146039 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 2:03 pm

I saw the vision again. You murderous sinners will all suffer terrible torment. Forget the Bible. Forget your false idols. Forget other false preachers. The vision has shown that only I can lead you to the Lord and through him to salvation. I humbly have accepted the task to be the great saviour.

Stand in line, mate. I seen the number on your ticket - I'm way in front of you! ;-)

1178. Fleabytes

Comment #146025 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 1:45 pm

Lady Chatterleys Lover (our moral decline began here!)

Gildas would not agree. He thought the moral decline began around 450...

1179. Fleabytes

Comment #145684 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 2:12 am

My dear Eclair, I am quite taking a fancy to you :-)

1180. Fleabytes

Comment #145612 by Goldy on March 17, 2008 at 7:35 pm

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=5§ion=0&article=107833&d=14&m=3&y=2008&pix=islam.jpg&category=Islam
Hey, Ecalir, you're one of us :-D
5teve - I always thought the spelling was Mahometan. See, one learns things here all the time :-D

1181. Fleabytes

Comment #145607 by Goldy on March 17, 2008 at 7:26 pm

But Our Lords logic isnt like out human construct

Noooo, really? Gosh, well, never would have guessed, never heeard that one before, stone the crows, etc, etc, etc.
Logic like spelling ;-)
Still, one good thing...

It's late. Back tomorrow TO CONVERT!

We've won one over. Good thing too - religion is bad for spelling and grammar...
Cartomancer, I would scold you for the sacrifice of the drink....but I guess needs must :-)

Al-rawandi, Is your name some paganistic Mohemetan name?

People still use Mohemetan? As God, via some angel (Gabriel, I believe), came to Mo a few centuries after he decided to do the hang on a cross gig, surely this makes Islam more correct than worshipping a prophet? I could be wrong, mind... David can clear (ahem) this up :-) Anyhoots, we're all fucked - his vision showed us that. And what use is a vision if it is falsifyable? Anyway...

for you are not worthy

Not like you'd get much of a welcome ;-)
Edit - Eclair poseur, have you had any more visions? I'd like one like the...errr, damn, hang on, digging out my 18th century English book...Mohemetan ones, where we gets to shag perpetual virgins. Fire and brimstone is soooooo 1600s!

1182. Fleabytes

Comment #145575 by Goldy on March 17, 2008 at 6:09 pm

Al, it's a Friday night bitchlslap here :-D

It was the Bishop of Durham, wasn't it? What did he say? " A conjurring trick with bone's". And what happened shortly afterward's? YES, YORK MINSTER BURNED TO THE GROUND!!!!

Ooooh, that makes sense. The Bishop of Durham says something so the Minster in York burns down. Logical really. Sort of explains why you screw up the simple words but get the long ones correct :-) Let me guess, David is going to say something really nasty and the Church of Our Lady in Deir Ezzor will burn down. The Pope will admit fallibility and a church in China will disappear in a poof of bulldozery :-)

1183. Fleabytes

Comment #145563 by Goldy on March 17, 2008 at 5:56 pm

Listen unbelievers. This is your only chance. I am here to save you. Do you want to suffer eternally? I have foreseen your pain in a vision

If you've already seen future, how can it change? If we change it, then you've not forseen anything but imagined it. If you can't forsee correctly, how can we believe you?
This smacks of witchcraft to me - I say we burn him!! :-)

1184. Fleabytes

Comment #145558 by Goldy on March 17, 2008 at 5:53 pm

Question - how come Pathfinder can't spell little words but comes out with licentiousness? He must (or should that read MUST) be God's chosen :-) It's a sign, I tell you. David, you've got your work cut out here! You're just nasty and sarcastic, destined to hell for pride and immorality. Pathfinder actually dribbles and spits when he writes! That's true God-given skills!

1185. Fleabytes

Comment #145553 by Goldy on March 17, 2008 at 5:49 pm

Fuckin-A! A battle between the religious. I feel like a legionaire watching the People's Front of Judaea fight the Judaean People's Front :-)
Hey Al, got any more of that popcorn? I brought a sixpack..

1186. The Great Tantra Challenge

Comment #144893 by Goldy on March 17, 2008 at 2:23 am

Goldy - sorry, I'd forgotten you lived in NZ.
Talking about the use of the f*** word - do you give lessons?

:-)
You know, I have never sworn in front of my parents.
But should you require more lessons, I am only too happy to oblige - though really I don't use it too much :-)

1187. The Great Tantra Challenge

Comment #144836 by Goldy on March 16, 2008 at 8:39 pm

Richard
Bed? Fuck no, only 4:37 here in the arvo. Waiting for quarter to, then I can fuck off home, picking up wife and child on the way. No fucking beer, but fuck it, I'll have gin. Next best fucking thing.
Fuck Europe for a knees up - come to NZ. House prices are falling slightly, so you might get a deal. Mind you, wouldn't fucking count on it - but fuck it, the beers cold.
:-D

1188. Fleabytes

Comment #144827 by Goldy on March 16, 2008 at 8:21 pm

I am with you, Carto (to a degree - methinks you'll not be too enamoured with the following!).
Tea is but a tepid drink of leaves. Beer is king, gin it's consort and coffee the son that comes the day after.
Bovril is merely a flaour to make tofu mince taste better. Vegemite is a bland insipid concoction beloved of my ex (forever know as the devil bitch slut). Marmite (and not the nasty masquerade they sell here) is for toast and eggs - indeed, it is mentioned honourably - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/07/wmarmite107.xml
Try that, vegemite!

1189. The Great Tantra Challenge

Comment #144816 by Goldy on March 16, 2008 at 7:59 pm

Richard, I notice a large increase in the frequency of the word fuck (and it's derivatives) in your posts. Wales won the 6 nations...
Regarding your post re us rationalists requiring all of Bolton Wanderers being tantricked to death (hehehehe!) - I think that does raise an interesting point. Our mindsets are different - we see things very differently to those of faith. That's why we can never win any arguments with them and why they cannot convince us.
Be nice to be able to get around this block.

1190. Are the 'New Atheists' avoiding the 'real arguments'?

Comment #144815 by Goldy on March 16, 2008 at 7:49 pm

For crissake, man. Just fuckin' ask it!

I did, but it just looked blankly at me... ;-)

Goldy, it inhibits benzodiazepine hepatic metabolism too, as I'm sure you know. It would seem to involve the CYP2C19 enzyme.

Getting to know more and more :-) Pat of a lupus nephritis study - some people don't respond to cyclophosphamide treatment too well (could be due to their 2C19 activity) and omeprazole is sometimes given to patients as part of their treatment...as it inhibits cyclo, maybe that might be a finger pointing at an improvement to their treatment...
But RM is correct - red herring.
Free will, then. Now, if you have absolutely no preconceptions, are your actions a result of free will? Or do you need to have all the information in order to have the free will to decide what to do?

1191. The atheist delusion

Comment #144771 by Goldy on March 16, 2008 at 5:48 pm

....What kind of democracy? America isn't one. Britain isn't.

Isn't democracy sometimes like religion? In that one person's democracy is another person's tyranny?
As for Britain not being a democracy, if more people bothered to vote, maybe more changes would be seen....

1192. Are the 'New Atheists' avoiding the 'real arguments'?

Comment #144767 by Goldy on March 16, 2008 at 5:44 pm

jac, my parents have been visiting and so I took a few days off :-) Now I have to try and catch up with work - need to get a paper written so I get more funding. Science, eh? Need to see how omeprazole inhibits cyclophosphamide metabolism. Interesting.... ;-)
Free will - I don't know. I have the freedom to do things I want - to a limit. I cannot imagine gods so am an athiest. I really don't understand how one has faith so I can't really comment on the effects of faith on free will. Obviously there is a fear of divine retribution for bad things (unless one uses the "God wants you to do it" card) which I think I can say is restrictive of free will. My lack of knowledge on the faith-based thinking is also a lack of free will - I can't worship as that option is not available to me.
Maybe it is a mistake in assigning properties to the concept of free will. Like religion, it is.... nebulous (?) and as much as someone wants to say it was their choice, there are factors in the history of that choice which restrict the whole freedom aspect of chosing.

1193. Fleabytes

Comment #142062 by Goldy on March 11, 2008 at 8:07 pm

Goldy, I remember the Taunton thread. No technique is going to work on all cases, especially his. However, you do not know what your efforts will cause to bubble up from his unconscious mind at a later time, or how much good you did for those unknowns who were lurking the thread.

Aye, that's true. I always forget about the "collateral damage" :-)

1194. Fleabytes

Comment #142061 by Goldy on March 11, 2008 at 8:05 pm

The way I see it, most people who have the information and still believe will do so for, I don't know, comfort? Or because it is their tradition/culture/etc when they are in a "foreign" land or...well, you get the picture.
In other places, it seems the religious are thus because they are told to be - look at changing religion in Malaysia or seeing how far you'd get with "unIslamic" views in Saudi Arabia.
Those that can find out the "truth" don't look because it isn't comfortable, those that want the "truth" aren't allowed to look.

1195. Fleabytes

Comment #142057 by Goldy on March 11, 2008 at 7:43 pm

Being a former believer myself I can tell you from personal experience that the 'evidence call' is sometimes the best thing to do

Lorien, true, but applicable in the western world? Well, western like the one I live in. Look at all the evidence given and the refutations by cretinists? That I can't understand, as, I think, many "moderate" religious people can't understand.
Fedler

I used to be one, but even I find the theistic beliefs incomprehensible now.

Maybe now they are incomprehensible, but you have a memory of what it was like. That's more than I'll ever have.
Quine - I think I tried that with Mark Taunton on the God of the Bible is Not a Delusion thread. Try it between a Christian and a Muslim. In this case, Mark, a Christadelphian, denied that Allah was God because Jesus was the son of/was God which Muslims deny (to them Jesus was just a prophet). Their denial meant their faith was not one of worshipping God but worshipping something else. Like me knowing evolution is right because, well, all the evidence I can show, he knew he was right because, well, all the evidence in the Bible showed. You should have seen his justification on discovering the site of old Tyre didn't somehow contradict God's word.
He was bombarded with evidence, yet it didn't in any way register. It was, really, a clash of heads...

1196. Fleabytes

Comment #142042 by Goldy on March 11, 2008 at 6:44 pm

A discussion on God's existence is destined to go nowhere but round many roundabouts, and result in heads crashing repeatedly against walls.

I find that repetitions of "Show us the evidence!" rather tiresome, given that NOBODY is expecting any convincing evidence. Not from DR or from any other theist.
I find that in view of that, constantly demanding evidence seems rather childish and, well, undignified

I have been told that the first step in any form of meaningful debate (as opposed to insult trading) is a form of reconciliation.
I agree with you, Richard and fides, these arguments on the nature of gods and the demands for deific evidence are going to just result in head clashing.
Athiests have to try and come to an argument that doesn't involve asking for evidence as such - the nature of gods in the minds of believers doesn't call for evidence. Indeed, in some cases the very lack of evidence is proof of gods. But by the same token, the theists have to try and understand the minds of those they wish to argue with, especially if they like to come here (I believe, fides, you've been posting here about as long, if not longer, as I have :-)).
I shall try, I promise, to think of how to put my arguments across in a way I believe theists will understand. Trust me, it will not be easy as I have never believed in gods. I really don't know how a true believer thinks, though it has not been through lack of asking. If others can help me when I become too rationally focused, too empirical and evidencial, tell me please.

1197. Seven new deadly sins: are you guilty?

Comment #142037 by Goldy on March 11, 2008 at 5:16 pm

I also think men should have the ability to deactivate their sperm, extra-corporeally

I believe that's possible already. A product called a condom, I believe...

1198. Fleabytes

Comment #142033 by Goldy on March 11, 2008 at 4:24 pm

Bugger me, Mark, who is also known as fides :-) I, for once, really agree with you!
Good point about the heavy drinking/alcoholism. I wrote as a heavy drinker. I don't think I am an alcoholic. It was just the question as to what to do with my time to avoid alcohol resonated with me - to me, beer, gin and wine (in that order) is something I use to fill time, to occupy my hands and because there is that "taste" in my mouth - I hope it is just a psycological addiction.
But yes - if it is alsoholism, as opposed to heavy drinking, there is much more that needs fixing rather than just putting the bottle down and controlling the urges...

1199. Fleabytes

Comment #142023 by Goldy on March 11, 2008 at 3:44 pm

Serious question - what do you guys do with your spare time- how do you not get beers or booze?- what else do you do? - and is that an addiction in itself?

I did running and cycling for a spell. And cooking. I used to drink very heavily - like you, I just need something to occupy me. I'm a lot better now, but then, I am married and I have a child. There's swings to go to and slides (there's a play park close to the house). I also have my garden (I think it's an age thing - no way would I have considered gardening when younger!) where I try and get as much fruit trees, errr, fruiting. OK, some of the fruit end up as an alcoholic beverage, but the fun is in the brewing and I can never make that much, so I tend to sip rather than gulp. I have cars and bikes in the garage that need working on - I bought an old Alfa Romeo I want to restore.
I still like beer - it's just for late evening while watching TV. One bottle every night - some of it with the meal (750ml Steinlager :-)) and the rest watching TV when I've done all the other stuff.
It is so very hard - I can't stop, I know, but I can control it - as long as I put my mind to it.

1200. Fleabytes

Comment #142004 by Goldy on March 11, 2008 at 2:55 pm

Whilst there are many in AA who don't believe in God, there are many more who have found freedom from alcoholism as a result of developing a relationship with their Higher Power in prayer.

Should've added that the wisdom of many people of faith is another factor in helping to persuade me of the truth of God's existence.

Odd that they only find their god in an AA meeting, mind. Would have thought a bit of genuflection and some mumbled words might have helped without recourse to going to a gathering of people chaired by councillours. Maybe it's like those miracle cures, cures by prayers, as it were, which completely ignore the doctors, nurses and drugs.
As for how you are persuaded in your god - what about the idiots and "false prophets" of faith? You listen to the smart ones and think "Yep - must be a God". Yet I'll bet you completely dismiss, say, the Westboro Baptists as crackpot. How do you differentiate?