Comments by BillySands
1201. Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself
Comment #46350 by BillySands on May 31, 2007 at 2:32 am
Sorry Billy, I hope you don't mind if I jump in here.
No problem Nails- I'm glad of the break
Devolved, if you are still reading, why do you always run away?
I know all about sickle cell anemia - my first degree was in parasitology! But please tell me where any evolutionist claimed that the mutation was an increase in complexity? If something is adaptive and confers a new function, how is it a degradation? Again, you spout lies and avoid issues. Why dont you take the opsin gene challenge?
1202. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston
Comment #46143 by BillySands on May 30, 2007 at 11:13 am
Steve
A while back, someone challenged him on this and his only response was it was wrong because the bible said so. He even made some derogtory comments about homosexual bishops elsewhere. I asked him to justify why it was wrong, and he said he would be happy to (comment 110 http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,1137,Would-the-World-Be-Safer-Without-Religion,Gregg-Easterbrook-Beliefnetcom,page3#comments)
Still no reply. I suspect it is because he believes this for no other reason than because a silly book says so. He claims this is a source of moral absolutes. He asked me why paedophilia was wrong and I said why, so, I waiting to see what his response is - I presume he has no answer, but would like to see him being honest about the fact that his faith makes him have bad attitudes, and that the bible is full of bad laws
1203. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston
Comment #46139 by BillySands on May 30, 2007 at 10:47 am
Hi BaronOchs,
It is just another example of selective and wishful theistic thinking.
I'm still waiting to hear a response from David on the morality of homosexuality, and would love to hear him explain the fact that he "confessed" the pope to be the antichrist, but says that he isnt. Oh well, I suppose it makes sense to him, I'll stick with a good old dose of clear thinking for now
1204. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston
Comment #46123 by BillySands on May 30, 2007 at 9:35 am
You cant top David Attenborough on the arguement from beauty (which is of course subjective)
"My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [I ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy."
Personally, I think mantis shrimp are beautiful, but try telling that to their prey that they can hit with the force of a .22 bullet - evil little killers that they are!
1205. Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself
Comment #46115 by BillySands on May 30, 2007 at 9:15 am
Guy's talking of music, you cant touch this http://youtube.com/watch?v=3XV6hNCgLAU
:-)
1206. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston
Comment #46081 by BillySands on May 30, 2007 at 6:42 am
Still waiting David
1207. Creationist Periodic Table of the Elements
Comment #46077 by BillySands on May 30, 2007 at 6:38 am
Glad this went down well, I'm puting it up on my office.
Flagellant One thing I suggested at the Glasgow brights was that we attend alpha courses and help people who attend them realise how stupid religion is. I used to teach these things, but the arguements are so easily dismantled
1208. Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself
Comment #46076 by BillySands on May 30, 2007 at 6:29 am
Sorry for the bold guys :-(
Epeeist, I think CDs are the only thing being converted here. Hands up who thinks devolved makes any sense - I've just thrust mine under the table.
BTW we were punished for eating the apple, even though we only knew it was wrong to disobey god after we ate it. Oh, and god did say we could eat anything that bore seeds
1209. Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself
Comment #46038 by BillySands on May 30, 2007 at 4:04 am
And what makes you say that I am not interested in the genealogy? Perhaps you are deflecting from the point that the bible is a load of rubbish. I couldn't care less what Ahulu believes. My arguement is with you! Incidentally, I was a creationist of sorts, but science - not fairy tales convinced me there is no room for god in evolution, and I give valid reasons why.
Haemoglobin (a molecule found in blood) has over 300 known mutants, yet not one has turned out to be helpful for human survival. This includes the haemoglobin mutation associated with sickle cell anaemia. Despite the fact that sickle cell anaemia sufferers are more resistant to malaria, they are also subject to 'growth impairment, susceptibility to infection, and chronic organ damage due to repeated vaso-occlusive episodes.
What pish! what you fail to mention is that despite the problems, they are still better off against malaria sufferers without the gene - and produce more offspring - a beautiful example of natural selection at work. Actually, hemoglobin families are good evidence of evolution. this is an old reference, I'll try and dig out a better one later http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev.es.21.110190.001213
We can trace gene dupilcations quite nicely
Sickle cell anaemia is one example of a loss of genetic information conferring an advantage (resistance to malaria) at a cost. It is an example of devolution (losing information) not evolution (gaining information).
Perhaps you would like to explain why it is a loss of information? It has the same number letters after all. More importantly, the statement lies. loss of information is still evolution!
Your mutation article has been dealt with by nails. Care to share your calculations with us anyway, we need a laugh
0.04 percent, or 4 in 10,000 articles on mutations, were located that discussed beneficial or favorable mutations.
And why is this a problem for evolution? Mutation is random, and more likely to have dammaging effects anyway? Thought you said you believed in evolution once - clearly you knew nothing about it.
You seem to have a hardon for information gain, but you haven't read that article on colour vision. All this rubbish you paste here just sets up straw man arguements about evolution . What about the fossil record?
What about noah's pathogens?
What about dinosaurs?
What about biblical contradictions?
1210. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston
Comment #45787 by BillySands on May 29, 2007 at 9:22 am
Benjamin,
Is there a concept of Hell in judaism? I always thought that Sheol (a bit like Hades) was where every one went, and that Hell as a place of suffering was a christian thing
1211. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #45785 by BillySands on May 29, 2007 at 9:05 am
Philip
We are a nation of contrasts. We gave the world penicillin, steam power, the TV and telephone. However, we also gave the world David Robertson and David Livingston who paved the way for HIV spread in Africa.
By the way, we invented everything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlSqCpHJObs
:-)
1212. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #45765 by BillySands on May 29, 2007 at 6:46 am
Cheers Philip
Maybe he has been embarrased enough here and wants to avoid debate and go straight to his pavlovian response of calling folk fundies
1213. Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself
Comment #45761 by BillySands on May 29, 2007 at 6:29 am
pewkatchoo,
I don't know, but he/she/it pure acts like a fud!
1214. Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself
Comment #45758 by BillySands on May 29, 2007 at 6:19 am
Devolved, Answer the challenges if you want to play with the grown ups. I am not going to read your limestone drivel, so why do you just explain it to us and we can exchange thoughts on it. you seem pretty reluctant to do that dont you? Could you just be spouting propaganda for the sake of it?
So what???? Justify your position - that's what intelligent people do. You are faced with an embarrasing problem and you have to make the bible fit reality. A circle is not a sphere and there is a hebrew word for sphere, but the verse says circle - justify.
I see you cant face the challenge of the genealogies - here's another: jesus is decended from a moabite (read Nehemiah on moabites).
However, lets take my favorite, the virgin birth prophecy (Isaiah 7:14) The verse is a bout a sign to be given to ahaz around 730 BCE, yet Matthew claims it predicted jesus would be born of a virgin - Come on, give me a break!
Why are you spouting rubbish links on carbon dating again? Do you read anything? Does it sink in, do you think about it? Remember you got you fanny kicked (and I mean that in the British sense) on this thread?
http://richarddawkins.net/article,912,Pope-abolishes-limbo,The-Daily-Telegraph-Waterstones
1215. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston
Comment #45754 by BillySands on May 29, 2007 at 6:02 am
Hey David,
Some of us are still waiting to hear your response to homosexuality and the pope being the antichrist etc. In case you forgot, here's the page
http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,1137,Would-the-World-Be-Safer-Without-Religion,Gregg-Easterbrook-Beliefnetcom,page3#comments
You did after all say you would be happy to answer
1216. Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself
Comment #45736 by BillySands on May 29, 2007 at 5:19 am
devolved
I don't claim to be a world class expert on this but I can refer you to someone who is:
I see you are avoiding the issue again. I have also seen that review already (its rubbish), and as I keep telling you, I challenged CMI and they wimped out. Incidentally, my life does not revolve around reading your propaganda, and we are talking evolurtion here, not the god delusion
Now answer the questions
1217. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #45708 by BillySands on May 29, 2007 at 3:32 am
wot? still no david?
1218. Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself
Comment #45701 by BillySands on May 29, 2007 at 2:44 am
Hi Epeeist. He is a very silly boy. Sometimes I think he might be David Robertson.
You'll notice the challenge to atheists in v21 Billy.
What challenge is that then? All I see are some words that pre-suppose the existence of yahweh. And we all know how reliable the bible is - Matthew and Luke cant even agree on Joseph's ancestry for a start.
Billy has his source, I choose another so for balance follow this link
Really, mines comes from real biblical scholars and christians with a PhD in that suff - by your adherence to authority, they must right. The flat earth is an embarrasment to the bible. You should at least be honest about it. I also asked you to critisice the article, not exchange links. That's how people exchange idea - but that wouldn't interest you. You already think you are right.
I also asked you about Noah and disease - as well as the formation of limestone!
I can still only find just so stories. Of course it's impossible to do science in the past so none of our claims about what happened can be tested scientifically.
Really? Care to back up that statement? Here's a little prediction we can test. If evolution happened, the fossil record will record gradual changes. If creationism is true, there will be no change, and men and dinosaurs will be found together. Well, number 1 is true, no 2 certainly isn't
Billy falsely claims, "…you did lie about once believing in evolution."
No I was once just as convinced as you Billy. Now I'm willing to see convincing evidence but can't find much on this website (even when I'm not asking questions).
I find that hard to believe since you dont know how it works. I was once as convinced as you are about god, but I was deluded too. I find it absurd that you find no evidence. You have constantly been challenged on the fossil record. You are just in denial. As for just so stories, they have been succesfully tested. Compare that to the just so story of god did it
Billy recommends, "I recommend everyone reads this link"
There's that selective quoting again. Here's the full quote: "I recommend everyone reads this link to see how stupid creatioists are to swallow this. Shame they couldn't print their picture of the dinosaur for copyright reasons - eh? "(see Figures 1 and 31 [due to copyright restrictions, Figure 3 is only available in Creation magazine])."
Do you really think poor quality drawings are evidence of dinosaurs? How bizzare!
And as for me 'mining' the internet I resolutely refuse to re-invent the bicycle.
Presumably you mean you cant argue your own case and just spout dogma.
by which he must mean people who don't agree with him (as he hasn't given any examples to date to substantiate his claim).
No, I mean Liars! If you can provide a decent challenge - like those dinosaur fossils, then fair enough. All you present are lies - remember scickle cell haemoglobin for example.
'Misprpresentation' = more letters = more information??? Remind me, how does evolution work Billy?
Remember ALX-4? less letters - more claws - you misrepresent evolution yet again.
Did you actually read that article on colour vision?
- No? didnt think so.
1219. Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself
Comment #45561 by BillySands on May 28, 2007 at 7:27 am
Welcome back Billy with your usual salvo of nonsense over logic. You're nothing if not predictable.
That's nice little boy, and what is santa getting you?
You haven't answered my questions, and you make unsubstantiated claims about my logic - remind me, why should I take you seriously again?
I found one near your home Billy. You can read more about it here: http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/133/
Oh dear, I pissed myself with laughter there. I recommend everyone reads this link to see how stupid creatioists are to swallow this. Shame they couldn't print their picture of the dinosaur for copyright reasons - eh? "(see Figures 1 and 31 [due to copyright restrictions, Figure 3 is only available in Creation magazine])."
I love the eryops and the sauropods - do you write fantasy novels?
They didn't.How do you know? Disease has always been in the fossil record
Billy "Why does the bible say the earth is flat?"
Your bible might. My Bible doesn't.
Really, and where does it say it os a sphere? critisice this http://www.bibleandscience.com/bible/books/genesis/genesis1_circleearth.htm
Have you evolved a new organ through which you think and speak Billy? More evidence of mutations providing more information I'd guess.
No, I lost that vestigial organ that makes me deluded and talk shite when I lost my faith. That reminds me, read those articles yet? Realised how evolution works yet?
Tell you what, I might start playing nice if you start thinking and not mine quotes and take out of context in a cynical attempt to decieve (actually, I think it is those you got the quotes from who are intent on misprpresentation - you are merely swallowing their lies). Then again, you did lie about once believing in evolution, so which is it?
1220. Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself
Comment #45556 by BillySands on May 28, 2007 at 7:00 am
I have yet to find anyone on the website who has written a critique of David's book.
Well, it has been seriously shredded. Ifact may folk went on his site and dismantled it - including a former minister of his church. From what I can tell, all that stuff has been removed from the site - strange that - eh?
Research over the past five years in the Kelly Caves of Kangaroo Island has shown that stalactites can grow at rates of up to 1/2 inch (7mm) in four years.
Oh dear, it seems the area the caves are found in exports Gypsum http://australian.lifetips.com/cat/12352/south-australia/index.html See Don,s post. By the way, how does limestone form in a global flood? Actually, evaporate sea water by 30% and you form gypsum!
Devolved, have you read those papers yet?
1221. Heliocentrism is an Atheist Doctrine
Comment #45555 by BillySands on May 28, 2007 at 6:39 am
HERE'S ONE FOR DEVOLVED
PROVERBS 14:15 15 Only simpletons believe everything they're told!
1222. Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself
Comment #45554 by BillySands on May 28, 2007 at 6:30 am
And as a matter of fact which of the scientists I mentioned wasn't a creationist? I repeat, whoever throws mud ends up losing ground.
My arse! WHAT KIND OF STUPID ARGUEMENT IS THAT?
1223. Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself
Comment #45553 by BillySands on May 28, 2007 at 6:26 am
Ah, this is where devolved has run to. How's the dinosaur hunting mate?
Tell me, why do you you believe these creationist "scientists". We have so often shown they lie and attempt to decieve and promote their own agenda. You clearly aren't capable of independent thought and refuse to give your qualifications. I presume our rebuttals go over your head. So, here's the question. Since you clearly don't understand what you are talking about, why are you here? Please tell me where the dinosaurs are? And how did noah's family harbour all known human pathogens and live? Why does the bible say the earth is flat?
OH, and we dont uses stalacitites to age the earth, and bats trapped in them are not true fossils - meerly encrustations - abit like the stuff found in the mouths of people with poor dental hygiene.
1224. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #44297 by BillySands on May 24, 2007 at 6:30 am
BillySands - yes I am honestly telling you that wee frees don't lock up swing parks in the Outer Hebrides! And surely what they all community determines to do with its own transport is up to them. Why do you wish to impose your standards on everybody else?
Come come David tell the truth now. I even know people who have been kicked out of B&Bs for watching the TV on a sunday when the family were at church.
Is Luthien making it up too?
I dont see how you think I wish to impose my ways on others. It is that point I am protesting againt. There are some who want the ferry service, but the Sabbatatians want their way. They can after all choose not to use them and let everyone who wants to use them.
"ost appear to be angry at him. Not at jews or gays etc."
Sorry, Billy that just does not work. It strikes me that you seem especially angry at Christians.
Evidence? I may get angry at disrespectuful christians. Would it suprise you to know that this week alone I have been out for coffee on three different occasions with three good christian friends? In fact, on one occasion (the day after a brights meeting) there was a friend from the brights in the same coffee shop and I was worried that he may inadvertantly say something that my christian friend could have found offensive - being a moral atheist of course, he didn't. If you read some of my posts on your site, you would have seen there were some folk there that I liked. Of course, some were complete twats too
Would it suprise you to know that I have travelled all the way to Harrisbugh to be best man at a missionary's wedding? So, where is your evidence for that statement?
I am more than happy to answer your question on homosexuality but in order to do so I need to know where you are coming from and what you mean. Could you tell me why you think polygamy is wrong and why paedophilia is wrong?
Just to put your mind at ease, I am straight - not that that should matter. I mean what is so wicked about it? It is a clear enough question.
I dont neccessarily think polygamy is wrong if all involved are aware of it and happy with it, and there is love. Personally, it's not my bag. Paedophilia is quite obvious really. It is usually non consenting and breaks the trust of the victim, leading to hurt and problems in forming other functional relationships - particularly with members of the opposite sex. It often leads to feelings of worthlessness and takes away the ability to enjoy relational pleasure. Victims often resort to drugs, alcohol, promiscuity (leading to further feelings of worthlessness and self loathing) and self harm. About a third of victims develop eating disorders too. Victims are scarred and their right to a fulfilled life is violated. I could rattle on - my former church had loads of such victims, and I got myself involved with one, so I know what I'm talking about.
How does that compare to a loving homosexual situation?
Actually, there is no real historical evidence for Jesus. The "best" is actually the josephus passage, and at best that has been tampered with - unless devout jews are in the habbit of calling folk the christ. At worst, it is a total fabrication. All other sources merely mention the presence of christian, or like josephus, were not contempories. Hard facts evaporate all your claims. May I suggest you read these?
http://ffrf.org/about/bybarker/rise.php
http://www.exchristian.net/exchristian/2003/04/is-christianity-based-on-pagan-roots.php http://www.exchristian.net/exchristian/2002/05/historical-evidence-for-jesus.php
You are quick to dismiss people who give reasons to reject the bible, but you never provide any evidence. You ducked out of a quirinius debate, and one of the first things I ever challenged you on was the existence of Abraham - you provided no case - could it be you have no case?
Off to Skye for a few days, I'll take my bolt cutters just incase I want to play on the swings on sunday (admittedly, Portee is more enlightened than Stornaway - not sure about Uig though - they hold sevices in gaelic there! Actually some wee granny would olny speak to me in gaelic once in portree)
1225. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #44285 by BillySands on May 24, 2007 at 5:07 am
Lee, you're a man of the world - nudge nugde....
There was a Guy called the Brahan seer who predicted this amongst other things:
He predicted that when there were five bridges over the River Ness in Inverness that there would be worldwide chaos. In August 1939 there were five bridges over the Ness and on September 1st the same year Hitler invaded Poland.
He said that when there were nine bridges that there would be fire, flood and calamity. The ninth bridge was built in 1987 and in 1988 the Piper Alpha disaster happened.
According to this prophecy, "The day will come when the MacKenzies of Fairburn shall lose their entire possessions; their castle will become uninhabited and a cow shall give birth to a calf in the uppermost chamber of the tower." This apparently heralded the demise of the MacKenzies of Kintail and Seaforth.
In 1851, the now-ruined tower was being used by a farmer to store hay, and a cow gave birth in the garret. It is believed that the animal, following a trail of hay, entered the tower, climbed to the top, and got stuck. Both the cow and the calf were taken down five days later, allowing enough time for people to come and see the prophecy fulfilled. This was one of four prophecies by the Seer regarding Fairburn, at least three of which are reputed to have been fulfilled.
Does Mark accept these prophecies, and if not, why not?
1226. The Komodo Dragon's Tale
Comment #44205 by BillySands on May 23, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Enlightenme
It is a possiblity. Although some people think that changes favoured more males http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&list_uids=15066448&cmd=Retrieve&indexed=google
1227. Shark virgin birth mystery is solved
Comment #44019 by BillySands on May 23, 2007 at 7:31 am
Peacebeuponme
I'm a bit slow today - doh!
1228. Despite what the scholars say, God isn't dead yet
Comment #43993 by BillySands on May 23, 2007 at 6:30 am
but what Dawkins failed to acknowledge in his encounter with Haggard is that the Nazi program of eugenics and extermination was not dictated by an unseen god.
Doesn't she know the old testamment is a jewish ethnic cleansing manifesto
1229. Liberty U student plotted to set off explosives, police say
Comment #43975 by BillySands on May 23, 2007 at 5:38 am
Mark Uhl has a myspace page: http://tinyurl.com/29gcvs
Yes, notice the crusader and the fact he wants to meet jesus, osama, plato and Walt the racist disney. Presumably he wants to kill osama (who could help him meet jesus) and plato (for being gay)
1230. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #43969 by BillySands on May 23, 2007 at 5:26 am
Sorry for this typo I think I had other things on my mind :-)
I know you are busty and have a lot to write about
1231. Shark virgin birth mystery is solved
Comment #43943 by BillySands on May 23, 2007 at 4:37 am
Peacebeuponme
Jesus could only ever be female if this happened in humans. Females have two X chromosomes and no Y chromosome, and males have one X and one Y chromosome. There s no way a woman can provide a Y chromosome, unless mary was something wierd like an XXY man, which may be possible, because "she" does have a beard in the life of brian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X67lJ8eC1J0
1232. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #43921 by BillySands on May 23, 2007 at 4:07 am
Hi Mark,
I like Alexi Sayles approach to hecklers. Shoot them!
I know you are busty and have a lot to write about, but I dont think that you have suitably addressed the issue of chronology in Ezekiel. As I hinted at earlier, there are possiblt at least two points of reference for dating events in the book. The 30 th year of exikiel (5th year of jehoiachim's captivity), and the date of his captivity.
Take your time
1233. Shark virgin birth mystery is solved
Comment #43909 by BillySands on May 23, 2007 at 3:53 am
What! You mean to tell me it's not the shark Messiah!
NO, he's not the messiah, he's just a very naughty boy!
1234. Liberty U student plotted to set off explosives, police say
Comment #43879 by BillySands on May 23, 2007 at 3:19 am
I think Bizzaro is getting a cavity search somewhere. I'm sure he will be at his computer when he is able back down again - that reminds me,hows Ted Haggard these days - not that I'm implying he's behind it. I certainly wouldn't want to finger him because of his beliefs
1235. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #43864 by BillySands on May 23, 2007 at 2:29 am
Dont worry about the rant Philip. Of course David wont address the facts in post, but we expect that. He may lie and say the bible says the earth is round, but he wont address the historical inaccuracies (cough quirinius!) or the other pagan gods with similarities to jesus - or indeed memes.
On a personal note though, I would like to know how old he is - I have always been facinated to know how long someone can live without a brain.
1236. Prayer can improve physical health
Comment #43785 by BillySands on May 22, 2007 at 3:39 pm
the real reason prayer doesn't work is because as Eric Idle says, god makes:
All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things rude and nasty,
The Lord God made the lot.
Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings,
He made their brutish venom.
He made their horrid wings.
All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
The Lord God made them all.
Each nasty little hornet,
Each beastly little squid--
Who made the spikey urchin?
Who made the sharks? He did!
All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The Lord God made them all.
Amen.
1237. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #43783 by BillySands on May 22, 2007 at 3:29 pm
bitbutter
Dont you know that the earth is flat? it says so in the holey babble
http://www.bibleandscience.com/bible/books/genesis/genesis1_circleearth.htm
1238. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #43760 by BillySands on May 22, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Is josh going to design some RDF sideshow dave says
T shirts
1239. Prayer can improve physical health
Comment #43756 by BillySands on May 22, 2007 at 1:02 pm
The researchers warned that while this area was often dismissed as being beyond the reach of science, it should not be underestimated.
Yeah, because amputees growing new limbs isn't quantifyable
1240. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #43666 by BillySands on May 22, 2007 at 8:45 am
Elvenearth
I know! The point is that it is the words of a different culture and not part of the teachings of a god who is a source of perfect law and moral absolutes as David claims. A long time ago, he said that he did not need to justify why homosexuality is wrong, because it says so in the bible. The point I am making is that if this were a good and valid law - like those on murder and stealing, it would be obvious why it is wrong. Today, this is a big issue in the church, and my friends sister is only one casualty. It is something that will hopefully split the anglican church too.
It's a bit like slavery, the bible condones it, but some apologists say we have to take the culture into consideration, then it is OK. However, morally, slavery is always wrong, no if or butts. A hypothetical moral god would have said so - the same with women and homosexuals.
However, David does not hold the view that these words are the words of men, so that presents him with a problem. They are the commands of his god afterall. At best, all he can do is acknowledge that the bible is not a source of moral absolutes, and as you nicely pointed out, other non yahweh based cultures showed greater wisdom and fairness (do you have any links by the way?)
1241. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #43639 by BillySands on May 22, 2007 at 7:01 am
Missed this:
And what makes you say that homosexuals are an abomination?
I dont, but the bible says so!
Leviticus 18:22
'Do not have sex with a man as you would with a woman. It is an abomination.'
Leviticus 20:13
'If a man has sex with a man in same way as with a woman, they have committed an abomination. They are certainly to be put to death.'
BaronOchs
Cant remember I told you this before, but a friends sister went into deep clinical depression because of her sexuality. It was made worse, because she was a christian and they were telling her that it was a choice and that she must change. She was trying to make herself what she is not. She has since got married to another woman and is so happy now - her father (a christian) was threatening to boycott the sevice. Eventually he say sense though and ditched his religiously motivated bigotry. Seeing the change, I am fully convinced that it is the retarded religious attitude on homosexuality that is the true abomination here
1242. The Case Against Intelligent Design: The Faith That Dare Not Speak Its Name
Comment #43634 by BillySands on May 22, 2007 at 6:46 am
Del,
Hitler most certainly was religious. Search google. I see you dont like being tarred with the KKK brush either. Well that's one thing we agree on
This is not answering my question again, this article was on evolution and intelligent design. How did evolution begin then or anything in that fact? This is the question I keep asking.
I suggest you read up on abiogenesis. I hope you are not argueing that because we have not created life ourselves, that is evidence for god. That is bad reasoning. Certainlt, there are the necessary molecules for life in the cosmos, thequestion is how did they come together. you may want to read these links http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/originoflife.html
You clearly dont accept that evolution happens, but the evidence is very clear. Why do you deny it? What is your evidence against it? By the way, we share a lot more than morphology with other apes. Our second chromosome is a clear fusion between two ancestral chromosomes. Chimps retain the unfused versions
What is annoying though is that when you don't have any answers for me you just bring it down to presuppositions.
Well, I have a lot of experience of Christians trying to re convert me and assuming I am in the wrong. Do you realise some of the presuppositions that you brought here?
1243. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #43627 by BillySands on May 22, 2007 at 6:26 am
Coel and David
Coel okay, let me ask you a simple question. Is it ever right to kill people because of their beliefs?
and
As a Christian I cannot conceive of any circumstances where I would be justified in killing somebody because they had the wrong beliefs.
Vs THE WORD OF GOD
deut 13"6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. "
or
Then Zimri, who commanded half of the royal chariots, made plans to kill him. One day in Tirzah, Elah was getting drunk at the home of Arza, the supervisor of the palace. Zimri walked in and struck him down and killed him. This happened in the twenty-seventh year of King Asa's reign in Judah. Then Zimri became the next king. Zimri immediately killed the entire royal family of Baasha, and he did not leave a single male child. He even destroyed distant relatives and friends. So Zimri destroyed the dynasty of Baasha as the LORD had promised through the prophet Jehu. This happened because of the sins of Baasha and his son Elah and because of all the sins they led Israel to commit, arousing the anger of the LORD, the God of Israel, with their idols. (1 Kings 16:9-13 NLT)
To name but a few nasty verses saying it is ok to kill those who believe something else
1244. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #43605 by BillySands on May 22, 2007 at 5:20 am
Newatheist
The Virgin Dawkins, perhaps?
That was just plagiarised from the virgin birth of Darwin. Much like the virgin birth of jesus was stolen from Attis/osiris/mithra/hercules/dionysis etc
1245. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #43603 by BillySands on May 22, 2007 at 5:17 am
David
Billy, yes Falwell did spread some pretty horrible things. But that does not justify the vitriol the bitterness and the irrational hatred expressed on this website. And what makes you say that homosexuals are an abomination? And what is your fixation with locking up swings on a Sunday? No one in my church would do such a thing. Have you seen a therapist?
And this from a man with an invisible friend. Are you honestly telling me that wee frees don't lock up swing parks in the outer hebridees? or try and prevent planes or ferries on a sunday? http://calbears.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20060410/ai_n16182754 sounds like your church to me.
I think it is perfectly natural to feel resentment againt such a hatemonger as Falwell, and the difference is that the people venting anger againt him are not spreading hate because their religion demands it. Most appear to be angry at him. Not at jews or gays etc.
Avoiding homosexuality again then? That is more in line with the thread, so please comment. Does the church condem homosexuality for no good reason or not? Can you give a reason why it is wrong. I know a lesbian couple, and they are as happy as any straight couple, so why is it wrong. Justify! If it was truly evil, you could present a case that we could agree on. We agree on murder an rape I presume. Pehaps your god's laws were really just written by a bronze age barbarian. I suspect that you know that you cant justify why it is so evil. Come on, prove me wrong
1246. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #43597 by BillySands on May 22, 2007 at 5:02 am
Lee
Someone else mentioned the speciation in drosophila (fruit flies) This may be of interest
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1131866&blobtype=pdf
Fruit flies are interesting, and by manipulating the fruitless gene, we can make homosexual males - the theists nightmare - genetic determinism and sin and all that. Now all we need do is attatch some freakin' lasers to their heads and I will take over the world - MWHAAHHAA.
1247. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #43589 by BillySands on May 22, 2007 at 4:42 am
I find I have less and less time to spend here - lucky for mark because more are jouning in :-)
Briefly
The Hebrew word Ezekiel used (the KJV's "lay") does not mean "to dump", though I myself used to think that until very recently.
The hebrew word is suwm (soom) or siym {seem}; a primitive root; to put (used in a great variety of applications, literal, figurative, inferentially, and elliptically)
and can mean: any wise, appoint, bring, call (a name), care, cast in, change, charge, commit, consider, convey, determine, + disguise, dispose, do, get, give, heap up, hold, impute, lay (down, up), leave, look, make (out), mark, + name, X on, ordain, order, + paint, place, preserve, purpose, put (on), + regard, rehearse, reward, (cause to) set (on, up), shew, + stedfastly, take, X tell, + tread down, ((over-))turn , X wholly, work.
Again, we have a problem with what the original word means. Can you justify your usage other than by saying it fits your claim better that way/
God really did shoot himself in the foot at babel :-)
Have a good day
Billy
1248. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #43560 by BillySands on May 22, 2007 at 2:14 am
As regards inciting hatred – there is a prime example of that on the Falwell thread on this site. Such bile, bitterness and grotesque hatred is sad.
Ah there's the David we know and love. I agree, Falwell did spread hatred - but he was only doing what the good book said - love what is good and hate what is evil and all that. Now, perhaps you could actually address the point concerning the unjustifyable and intolerant teachings of your church. Please tell us, why are homosexuals an abomination (as well as playing on swings on a sunday?). I know why murdering people in churches etc is wrong, but not chocholate chimney sweeping. I suspect you cant justify it either. Your only response is because the bible says so. Is that right? Naturally I dont expect an answer becaus I am right. It is not evil - nor is driving to church on a sunday - please give us a laugh and tell me members of your church dont lock up swing parks on a sunday
It's certainly a new angle on the Angelika murder
One thing struck me about the diseased mentality of the religious concerning this was the fact that some catholics felt that her promiscuous behaviour needed to be condemned. They denounced her as a catholic, rather than say what a terrible thing had happened. That's religion for you!
I see David still cant counter the meme arguement then. Not suprising really, he was brought up in this meme, and his whole faith would collapse if he realisd that he is xian becase he inherited it
1249. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?
Comment #43402 by BillySands on May 21, 2007 at 9:26 am
WeeFud, I too am dumbfounded that you spew the same old vomit. I'm waiting for some evidence from you.
try telling that to the Polish Catholics
Yeah, they just come over to Scotland and get murdered in chapels.
Stange that Norway and Japan are all safer countries than America. People would also be better off without Weefud and his kind victimising homosexuals. Here is another question you cant answer. Why is it wrong? There must be a reason why something deserves the death penalty. I can see why rape and murder is wrong, but not consentual fudge packing. That is just one reason the world is better off without religion - incitement to hate without the need for justification
1250. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #43366 by BillySands on May 21, 2007 at 7:25 am
Hi Stuart
The question of "increased information" is one which theists use to misrepresent evolution. They say things like where did genes for eyes come from then? They seem to thing that you need all the information in one step to make an eye. This of course is not how evolution works. It is a gradual process. If you have been following the "debate" with devolved, you will have seen other misrepresentation such as the idea that point mutations are in someway claimed by evolutionists as a way in which information increases. Again, no evolution ever claims this.
Anyway, some good (technical) articles including general mechanisms such as duplication, pseudogene integration, horizontal gene transfer and transposition are here:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/ykgx7ldva0669quv/
Good evidence for gene duplication in colour vision http://www.genome.org/cgi/reprint/9/7/629
This is a good general source of scientific literature here http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/behe/publish.html
I stongly recommend this book http://richarddawkins.net/article,232,The-Fact-of-Evolution,Sean-Carroll--NPR-Science-Friday
It is easy to read if you are not a scientist.
Of course, as i have also pointed out, it is incorrect to assume that changes in morphology require new genes. The Alx-4 gene in claw gevelopment beig an example where part of the gene is actually lost, but dogs develop an extta claw on their hind legs.
I find it strange that those who deny evolution demand an answer to every single point and ignore the other evidence. It is a bit like saying, ha you dont know, god must be real - despite 150 years of self supporting evidence. Strange they require so little evidence for their god.
Send me a PM with your email address if you have any trouble with the links
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