1201. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #210177 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 14, 2008 at 3:53 am

Goldy, phil rimmer & everyone else who has the attitude that it was great when I said what I thought about Islam, but doesn't think it's great when I say what I think about anything else, here is my position:

My business isn't to win any sort of popularity contest. My business is to say the truth to the full extent of my ability to do so. If I am wrong, I hope to be corrected - but I don't see any evidence of that so far.

Even if I was wrong about capitalism, how, phil, would this reflect on my views about Islam? I would expect to see my case judged upon its own merits.

The reason, Goldy I pour scorn on your post that implied there was nothing to choose from between tribal life and modern, capitalist life, and even said that tribal life was better is that this point of view is insane. Sierra Leone, just to take an example, has undergone a regression from capitalist to tribal life and the life expectance is now thirty-six years. You mentioned those tribes in the jungles. Well, which ones? The ones in Borneo, where you can see the Dyak longhouses with skulls nailed to the outsides, the skulls of the victims who were killed and eaten?

What I think is being argued for is the best use of social capital and for that you need a healthy and well educated populace.

What exactly is 'social capital' and who makes use of it?

1202. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #209473 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 12, 2008 at 11:41 am

epeeist thank you for being one of the few who at least tries to provide me with some solid facts. Before I address them, let me comment on the following:

So which "commies" are these?

Jiten, for a start.

Now, on to your comments. Okay, I'll grant you mobile telephones. But where was the phone invented? Well, at AT&T labs.

That list of semiconductor inventors is excellent - but it all dates from the nineteen-thirties or earlier, when the world was far more capitalist than it is now. The other link goes to a company website. So, you are citing a company website as a way of arguing against capitalism?

All of this is concedes my basic point: even partially-capitalist, or semi-capitalist societies are light years ahead of the non-capitalist ones.

phil rimmer what standards were used to measure that graph? Because when I hop over to the Nobel Prize website, I see a stream of Americans.

Note, once again, that in an attempt to argue against capitalism you cannot cite the achievements of non-capitalist societies, because these are non-existant. The defence rests.

1203. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #209462 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 12, 2008 at 10:41 am

I lived in London, mate, when Irish nationalists were dropping the odd bomb around

Oh cry me a river. The IRA killed, what, a hundred, two hundred people during its mainland campaign? (I'm using Wikipedia as my source). I've lived in places where that's the death toll of a brisk weekend.

You mention your mother being bombed by the Americans. I'll remind you that my Father is german, and I have heard far worse from the time of the Reich's fall (for which I hold no grudge, mind you).

This is all irrelevant. You tried to draw some sort of parallel between the hideous state of continuous warfare in tribal societies and life in capitalist societies. You ask me 'not to insult you'. Well, I didn't. You insulted yourself, your own intelligence and reasoning by that cretinous comparison.

epeeist the Scandanavian countries are in hock up to their eyeballs, and, as with the rest of Europe, are about to run out of cash. This is like saying the guy down the road with a morgage on his house and nothing but red in the bank, who drives a flashy car and throws big parties is successfull.

In any case, where's the contribution of these countries? Where did things like software, MRI scanners, silicon chips etc. come from? Uh-huh. They're just hitching a ride.

Just to clear something up- I do have a "fucking clue" what I'm talking about. I do applaud your most eloquent but rather accusing presumptions of what I have and have not read.

*gloomily* Get used to it, twp. This sort of thing passes for dialogue amongst the commies.

As regards these comments about colonialism, my point, which, as usual, hasn't been addressed, is as follows: the GDP of the entire world increased by orders of magnitude during the Industrial Revolution. Get it? That wealth was made, not stolen. Or do you think differently? Tell me, where was the internal combustion engine stolen from? The spinning jenny? The mechanical loom? The steam engine? The generator? The electric light bulb? The clock?

I'll close on a simple observation: when I denounce communism everyone scrambles to justify it by reference to some fantasy world that has never existed and never will. When I praise capitalism, people try to denounce it by its failing, real or not (usually not), in fact and reality.

This. is. piffle.

1204. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #209314 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 12, 2008 at 2:55 am

And what exactly is the matter with making profit? How are you going to live if you don't produce more than you consume? And where's your job going to come from if the businessmen and industrialists don't make the profit that allows them to expand and develop?

There is something perverse about those who praise any non-profit organisation but curse the profit-makers that make them possible.

1205. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #209312 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 12, 2008 at 2:53 am

Capitalism doesn't have a track record for solving social problems, so the answer to your question is: all of them.

Mordacious then put your money where you're mouth is. Piss off to Iran or Saudi Arabia, non capitalist theocracies, or to North Korea, or Cuba. Go on. After all, they're better, aren't there?

What we have here is the man of the double standard. Someone who praises one system, but lives by the other, and spends his time condemning that which keeps him alive.

Goldy Goldy, last comment to you for a while, as I have to get to work:

the fear of bills,

As a matter of fact, I have already said that I do. Am I safer when I can count on keeping an owning the product of my own mind to meet those bills - or where my product can be consumed by any passer by with the right sanction, that of society or Allah?

the grinding poverty,

Again, what grinding poverty? Compared with what? I've worked at the minimum wage level, and the way those people live is light-years better than the way people live in non-capitalist societies, a fact you keep evading.

the lack of social help,

What does this even mean? Private charity is highest in capitalist societies, and nonexistent in statist ones.

the slavery,

What slavery? Remember, in the civil war it was the Industrialized, capitalist north against the rural, agricultural, non-industrial, non-capitalist south.

the violence to women,

What are you talking about? Women in capitalist societies enjoy higher rights than anywhere else in the world, and equal rights are so well advanced that feminsts are reduced to whining about the lack of female pipe fitters.
There is one source of serious violence towards women here, which I have denounced right from the get go: Islamic immigration. A subject on which the feminists are, as per usual, completely silent, the moral cowards they are.

the constant bloody warfare

You know nothing, I mean absolutely nothing about what you are talking about. Have you ever escaped from a burning city? I have. Have you ever seen real continuous war? Do you have even the faintest conception of what that's like? You should live for a year in Somalia, or even in South Africa, and then you'd be begging to return to the capitalist world, and you would be giving thanks every day that you did not have to live in those societies.

1206. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #209298 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 12, 2008 at 2:31 am

Goldy a little of collumn a, a little of collumn b...

As to this comment:

Probably small family groups in a self sufficient lifestyle. I believe some tribes in the Amazon and the Andaman Isles are exceedingly enamoured of this lifestyle, to the extent of killing foreigners...

Do you have any idea what life is like in those societies? Do you know about the constant, bloody warfare? Do you know about the cannibalism, the slavery, the violence towards women?
And above all, do you know anything about the fear? The terror of an unknown Universe, of wind and rain, of being continually under the threat of annihilation, at the hands of fire or disease or flood, unpredictable and able to strike at any moment?

If you prefer that system, you're welcome to it.

Update: Why don't I just quote the man who said it best of all?

No place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain; and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by Sea; no commodious Building; no Instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force; no Knowledge of the face of the Earth; no account of Time; no Arts; no Letters; and which is worst of all, continuall feare, and danger of violent death; And the life of man, solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short.

1207. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #209286 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 12, 2008 at 2:16 am

I notice that you two still cannot answer this simple question:

What social system has a better track record with respect to any social problem than Capitalism?

Now, mordacious names some undefined 'hundreds of millions'. I've worked my share of minimum-wage jobs, squeezing cash out of my budget where I could manage it. I was still earning seven times what a skilled professional earns in the country where I grew up, South Africa.

The life of those on the lowest rung of the economic ladder in capitalist societies - Western Europe, North America - is enormously better than that in the non-capitalist societies elsewhere. Nor did the capitalist societies get rich by stealing it from elsewhere. There simply was not enough wealth in the world to be drained, if what the Industrial Revolution was some sort of drain. No wealth is made, created through thought and work. This isn't a zero-sum game.

There is this idea that one man's ability is a threat to another. This is absolute nonsense. What exactly determines the value of my work - or anyone's work, for that matter. If you are alone in some wasteland, it's just the activity of your mind. You'd spend your entire time scratching a miserable living for yourself. But when you live in human society, you get an unbelievable bonus: your work's value is determined, not just by what you have done, but by the work of the minds around you.

When I attend to my job, I recieve all the benefits of the ones who made the software that I work with, the scientists who did the basic research on which I build, the University that created the laboratories, and those who paid for it. All of that for free. Take a quick inventory of your own life, and ask how much of that you could have made yourself, starting with nothing but the raw material of nature. This is the pattern of 'exploitation' for which capitalism is damned.

Pure capitalism would lead to a disaster, many very rich and many very poor with no security net

Except that there is no evidence for this. In the developed, Industrial world, life expectency has been growing and infant mortality has been dropping, and the gap in these factors between rich and poor has also been closing.

Now as to these comments about social security, they are driving our civilization off a cliff. In France, for example, social security consumes one quarter of the GDP. Whose going to pay for this? Where's the raw product going to come from - in a nation where the youth is vanishing and those who are born often escape overseas? Europe's welfare state is about to reach the point marked 'account overdrawn'.

That's the nature of every kind of theft, whether it's some gangs, or a government sanctioned one, it doesn't matter. It's a short-term policy that implodes when the loot runs out.

UPDATE: There is one final reason I get furious at this nonsense. There is one, and only one, proven, demonstrated cure for mass poverty and that is hog-wild capitalism and hard work, both of which are out of favour with the intellecual clases everywhere. I have seen far too many societies trapped in miserable, stinking poverty to take this with equinimity. Places like Tanzania where the people should be building up their industries, developing their prosperity and climbing out of their misery, are stuck in stagnation thanks to these asinine ideas.

I'll quote from P.J. O'Rourke:

"Poverty is many things. Poverty is hard, wretched and miserable. It's schoogirl prostitutes trying to feed their parents in Cuba. It's grandmothers begging on the streets of Moscow. It's John [his guide in Tanzania] driving through the Tanzanian night while his daughter dies. But one thing poverty is not is sad. It's infuriating. It doesn't have to be this way. These conditions do not have to exist. We know the answer. The evidence is all over the map: economic liberty causes wealth, economic restriction causes poverty. We can't solve all problems, but we can solve the probelm of gross, miserable material deprivation. Yet through fear, laziness, or sloppy idealism we refuse to do so"

1208. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #209250 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 12, 2008 at 1:14 am

I'll add one more thing: Capitalism is the only system that, even in theory, banishes the use of force from human interactions. There are two, and only two, ways in which men can deal with each other - either one offers the other something, whether its material goods or a good reason, or one can compel the other by force.

That's the alternative. Trade or thuggery.

----------------------------

epeeist you haven't answered my question: which system in human history has a better record than Capitalism with respect towards any social problem?

1209. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #209239 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 12, 2008 at 1:02 am

Thanks, Sciros It's fixed now.

1210. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #209219 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 11, 2008 at 10:59 pm

Why exactly is it a stupid goal? Please elaborate.

Because people like you, Jiten support it. You curse human nature, you curse this earth, but won't bring yourself to challenge this code. Just how much more blood really needs to be spilled before people drop this insanity?

You proudly declare yourself "anti-capitalist" - has there ever been any social system that has a better track record towards any social problem than capitalism?

I have seen, first hand, the devastation that even mild forms of socialism have wreaked. Just how much more needless suffering do you think mankind needs?

You jabber empty things like this:

I think you have forgotten about the role of force (violence) in maintaining capitalism, and before that feudalism and before that well pretty much forms of society. Violence has underpinned them all. WE have to find a way to create a violence free society or we're all doomed. .

all the while ignoring the naked nature of what Communism has always done, of the absolute bloody horror of setting one man against the next, of the slaughter of one hundred million people and the enslavement of the rest.

This is why I said that there is no such thing as an honest advocate of Communism. Not any more. Not after what we have seen.

-------------------------------------
Vin, let me answer this:

Till then let me tell you that we are where we are today because of a collective human effort

I would make a slight correction. It isn't any sort of 'collective effort', but the effort of individuals. Now why do I say that Averroes belongs to us and not the rotted carcass of Islam? Well, where did his ideas come from? And where were his ideas accepted? Where were they built upon, and improved? Here. In the West. Which is why noone talks about Ibn Rushd.

The achievements of Averroes are those of reason, not of faith. And, incidentally, this is not restricted to Europe. I would say that at the moment, India is becoming, if it is not already, more 'the West' than Europe.

1211. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #208984 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 11, 2008 at 1:20 pm

I am NOT supporting "true communism" in whatever fashion. I think it's a stupid ideology that can never work and attempting to bring it into being cannot end well.
This stands to your credit. But it isn't enough, isn't nearly enough.

A moral code is a prescription for how people should act. What concievable standard is there for such a code, except what it actually does, actually causes, in fact, in reality, on this earth?

No. The problem is the moral principle itself. Every prophet, every philosopher, every leader who has proclaimed the doctrine of sacrifice for love of others has always ended with a pile of corpses. This isn't an accident.

al, I'm afraid I disagree with you here:

I don't blame the ideology, I blame a naive man, and an even naiver (is that a word?) group for trying to make it happen.

Mistakes of this magnitude are never made innocently. Whenever people advocate some form of vicious insanity which cannot work, they always have some darker motive driving them.

1212. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #208954 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 11, 2008 at 12:36 pm

My apologies to Styrer.

Now Sciros, Communism is a political theory, Darwinism is not. Blaming Communism for the horrors of Russia, China and Cuba is like blaming Nazism for the Holocaust.

I said I wouldn't argue, for one simple reason: all theories are attempts of ours to make sense of the world. All prescriptive theories are an attempt to change the world in some way. It is no longer possible to honestly advocate Communism, not after what has happened. The level of death and horror that it caused makes it impossible for any honest human being to want to risk that again.

If the mounds of bodies aren't enough to sway your convictions, then I can't help you.

Incidentally, yes, I have read about Communism, and what I have learned is too terrible to put into words.

1213. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #208916 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 11, 2008 at 11:31 am

Since it is likely that joe will come crawling back, but it isn't likely that he'll ever answer a single point, let me take this moment to demonstrate something about him and his kind:

He calls the West depraved - but it is only its righteousness that can make that claim work. He tries to make us feel guilty - but it is only our moral rectitude that can give that meaning. If Westerners were truly the monsters that he says, Islam would have withered in nuclear fire a long time ago.

Imagine we were to direct such comments towards his co-religionists, the murderers in Darfur or the Mullahs of Tehran - is there anyone who thinks it would have the slightest effect, except perhaps for them to intensify their horrors?

But ask yourselves this: what kind of a code of punishment is it that can only strike the virtuous that, by definition, cannot harm the guilty? Once you've grasped that, you will understand everything, not just about Islam, but about every evil that has plagued humanity.

Styrer, I am not going to get into an argument about Communism. If the total slaughter of a continent and the enslaving of a third of the world isn't enough to make you reconsider these views, then nothing will.

You say Communism can never work? Oh, but it did. The Communists wanted a system where need was everything, where need held first claim on any life, anywhere, where an individuals selfish desires were to be sacrificed absolutely to the comunity. They got it. They achieved their wish, down to the last, bloodstained comma of it.

As regards this, though:

Fanusi -- when you say "never developed fully," what exactly did you have in mind? If you're talking about the sciences, research, etc. then Russia is pretty darn developed, and has been for some time now. (It "Westernized," you can say, but definitely while still under control of the Communist party, which for all intents and purposes it still basically is.)

Compare the standard of life in Russia to anywhere else in the West. Compare the standards of living, infant mortality, and life expectancy. Then you will understand what I mean when I say that the helenic strain was always weakest there.

1214. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #208842 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 11, 2008 at 9:48 am

Oh no you don't, al *lock and load* I'm in on this one to:

Joe I could point out that the history of your filthy religion has been one of continual genocide and murder and oppression and rape and paedophilia. What about those seventy million Hindus you slaughtered in the subcontinent? What about the Endloesung you practiced on the Christians and Jews in their own heartlands?

But that's not the most basic argument. Question, if we are so evil, why, after 9/11, didn't we just raze your countries into radioactive ash? After all, your supposedly morally superior Muslim brothers murdered and looted and pillaged at mere cartoons - why then are we not entitled to retaliate in full for the slaughter of three thousand innocents?

The answer - and this is the answer you struggle to escape, the one you drown in the darkness of your mind - is that we are better than you. Got it? We answer to a moral code that is superior to that of Islam. Better, and greater. We do not rejoice in slaughter.

As I said, after one cartoon was published, your kind went on a murderous rampage. After the slaughter of three thousand innocents, Bush reminded people not to hold Muslims responsible. The conclusion is unavoidable that:

The majority of the world's Muslims are morally inferior to George Bush.

But keep pushing us, bucko, and you will find out what a taste of your own medicine feels like.

I notice that you still are too cowardly, to pathetic to address my points. Because you know they're right, don't you? Doesn't it just drive you mad hearing that voice in the back of your mind?

1215. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #208823 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 11, 2008 at 9:31 am

Be careful now, there are quite a few Chomsky-fellating communists who a regulars here.


Those "We swear communism will work, let's just try it one more time" types.

I'm sorry, I have no time whatsoever for those types. They are worse than most non-Muslim religious types in my view. What kind of a person claims to be motivated by concern for others but isn't stopped by the slaughter of entire continents?

1216. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #208782 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 11, 2008 at 8:47 am

Speaking of bringing the guns to deck level...

If Islam is what made the difference, why didn't the Orthodox Christians in those same areas -- think Ethiopia and Russia -- experience the Enlightenment?

Simple. Both of those may have been Christian, but they were not Hellenic. Russia is really on the outskirts of Western Civilization - the Graeco-Latin strain is weakest there. And what do you think is the case with Ethiopia?

Now allow me to explain - again - what my point is about Christianity: it has one powerful virtue, the universal humanism of Christ, and very important fault-lines that allow reformation. But the fault lines are meaningless without something to push through them.

It is worth noting that the Helenic strain may have been weak in Russia, but it still developed. It managed to reach the Industrial Revolution, which is more than can be said for the Muslim world. The reason it never developed fully is because Russia was strangled by an ideology perhaps as evil as Islam - Communism. Back in the day when Communism was all the rage, you had Islamic nutcases insisting that the Prophet and his companions were Communists before the word was even invented. My point exactly.

Ethiopia is similarly removed from Graeco-Latin civilization.

Yet what person, who knows anything about Byzantium, about its irreplaceable legacy, can say that, were it not for the predations of Islam, it would have enjoyed the Enlightenment, probably beating Europe to it?

Naked Celt may I recommend Peter Gay's two-volume history of the Enlightenment to you?

"Mr. Smith, reload!"

es, point #7 of the 19 that I'm still waiting for an answer from you on. You know, on the UK Sharia thread that you suddenly stopped answering.

Oh dear, nineteen is it? Care to list them here? And do you care to make sure that they aren't ones I have torpedoed repeatedly?

And one final thing - do you care to actually crack open a book - such as Gay's aforementioned history - and learn something for yourself instead of always whine, whine, whine "You didn't reply to me". I happen to have a job and a course of studies as well as a scientific career I need to support. Forgive me if I can't spend as much time as you'd like correcting your errors.

1217. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #208032 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 10, 2008 at 2:10 pm

See what I deal with, semi litterate fuck nuts who ramble in broken English about semi-coherent nonsense. I dash their nonsense on the rocks repeatedly and then they claim victory. The center of my existence has been figuring out how to convince someone who isn't smart enough to know they have lost, that they indeed, have lost.

*pauses for a moment to savour this*

al, do you now see why my attitude in alot of arguments is "Mr. Smith, get those guns to deck level and load with grape shot"?

1218. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #208017 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 10, 2008 at 1:49 pm

*laughs* Oh, I had never really bothered with clearmind but it suddenly all becomes clear.

You can't make monkey out of us.

Why should we, when you're doing such a great job?

1219. Atheist soldier sues Army for 'unconstitutional' discrimination

Comment #208007 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 10, 2008 at 1:14 pm

This is one of the most revolting things I have heard in my life. I'm often accused of being 'too cozy' with the Christians. Well, this goes a long way to correcting that.

1220. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207998 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 10, 2008 at 12:29 pm

Have the balls to engage Dr Zakir Naik, Jamal Badawi, Hamza Yusuf and so on LIVE and see where your lies and distortions get you!

Joe have the balls to engage me. Not even live, but here, in safe anonimity. Come on, you have the creator of the Universe on your side - don't you? Try arguing with me - after all, you're certain you're right - aren't you?

To phil rimmer, decius, Bonzai, Vaal, Steve Zara, Apathy personified and everyone else, thanks for your kind words. I meant it.

This has always been the reason I have hated religion. Not the looniness of the texts, not even the explicit horrors it has comitted, but what it has cost us by choking off the human mind.

A better world is really and truly possible without religion. Real triumph over the physical world becomes possible.

1221. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207959 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 10, 2008 at 10:46 am

Scirios thank you, I'm flattered. *bows*

It's all true. This is the reason I cannot forgive these parasites, not ever, for what they have cost the world.

If faith is such a fucking virtue, why not just say, "Yes, I know it doesn't make any scientific sense yet I have faith in [insert magical bullshit here]" and do The Superiority Dance. This always seemed to be enough for the devout before. Why isn't it for you? Why do you give a shit what the 'condemned' think of you and your religion?

Gregg you don't get it do you? We're not dealing with some sloppy compromiser, some moderate, some wishy-washy type here. This is the real thing. This is true faith. This is the man who has sacrificed his mind at the altar.

He can't be any other way. He needs our reassurance. He needs it because deep within him his violated mind is screaming that it's not true - and he is terrified of hearing that voice. That bizarre supernatural consciousness he feels - it's us, our consciousness. He hopes that by making us agree with him he will still that voice, as though by agreeing to fake his reality, we'd bring it into existence.

That's what you are dealing with. Have you wondered about the minds that slaughtered and enslaved entire continents, seemingly without reason? Here's the reason: such a mind will enslave, will torture, will kill, anything to prevent that inner voice that's telling him it's not true. Anything to prevent him from facing the reality he dreads.

1222. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207950 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 10, 2008 at 10:33 am

Joe Morreale answer me you coward. Come on, answer my points.

You keep hiding behind the words of others, but you have no facts. None. All the cries in the world, all the babblings of the 'fair and balanced individuals' (applying that to rackets like the Zaytuna Institute is enough to make ones head explode), all the ravings will not change one atom in this Universe. And you know it.

Vaal may I suggest an excellent online book on this subject? It can be studied in a few hours and it is well worth the read:

Islam and the psychology of the Musulman, by Andre Servier
http://musulmanbook.blogspot.com/

1223. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207937 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 10, 2008 at 10:24 am

The ass kicking of Islam has only just begun, socially, economicall, culturally, and militarily.

Al! You just made my day.

Incidentally, the next time we argue - and you know we will at some point - if you feel like saying that I'm being unnecessarily harsh, you've just seen my real level of harshness.

1224. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207935 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 10, 2008 at 10:22 am

Joe, you did no such thing. Answer one single point in my post and I will hear it gratefully. But you can't. Now, by your words and your actions answer this question: Are you such a coward that you can't even read my points? If I'm so obviously wrong, why can't you answer? If I'm so obviously wrong, why are you so afraid of my lines? Why are you so scared?

Because, deep in your mind, there's that little voice that's telling you: "it's all rubbish. There's no Allah. It's all just some words scribbled down at some point in the past. It's not true."

That's what this about isn't it? Doesn't that knowledge just drive you mad?

1225. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207932 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 10, 2008 at 10:14 am

Westerners have long been credited withdiscoveries made centuries prior by Islamic scholars but it has been omitted from the historical record and fraudently attributed to others.
Chemistry, physics,optics, algebra, trigonometry, basic arithmetic, mathematical astronomy, modern medicine, pharmacology, geography,ethnography, and geology are all non-western inventions.
Yet few if any individuals or teachers have any clue of this fact

Actually, we have been told this. It is an old and tired lie, one more attempt of Muslims and brainless romantics to try and excuse the inexcusable, and humanize the inhuman.

The truth about Muslim science is that it is nonexistant. Muslims were mere copyists, to a large extent. To the extent that any born under the mind-destroying rule of Islam managed to create something new, it was to the exact extent that he kept his mind clean and free. This is why there is no such person as Ibn Rushd - there is only Averroes, who belongs to the West. Understand? He belongs to the line that stretches back to Aristotle and Thales, not to the stagnation of Muhammad. He belongs to us, not to you.

Whether it was Arab, Persian, Indian or Turk , the point is that it was ISLAM THAT TRANSFORMED THEM AND CIVILIZATION 632-1600.

If this is so - why did the Enlightenment sweep through Europe, and leave the Islamic world utterly untouched? North Africa, not to mention Constantinople was utterly hellenized and latinized. Yet they never took one step while the West blasted out of the dark ages.

What have you done lately - in the last seven hundred years? What have you done while our scientists and our minds have unlocked the beginning of the Universe, and its end, and reached the stars themselves? While we have tamed lightning as a plaything and routinely perform miracles that would have left your epileptic prophet gibbering in terror? You cower before an icon of the moon while we walk on it.

Without western minds, you would never have been able to take the oil from below your sands, let alone use it. Your governments seized the plants built by engineers, managers, and industrialists whom your society cannot produce - and then found that, without the brains of better civilizations, you couldn't even run what you had stolen, so you have to beg talent from everywhere when you found yourself unable to handle that.

The computer you are using right now - do you honestly think that all the mumblings of the Qur'an, all the screams of your Mullahs could create even one sillicon chip in it? Look at the room you are sitting in, while you posture about the greatness of Islam - did Islam give you the chair you're sitting in, or the technology that made that chair possible, or the factory that creates the cement for your walls, or the car in which you drive, or even the clothes you wear? Could you have created as little a thing as a plastic cup without the minds of the Infidels? Your religion is a scabby little parasite, without even the intelligence to understand what it is.

Oh, certainly, the Persian, Indian and Turkish civilizations were transformed by Islam - that 'secretion of the Arab brain' as Servier puts it. They were flourishing great civilizations before Islam destroyed their ways and their brains. Utter stagnation has been the hallmark of every place that Islam has taken root.

Here is Servier:

""It is difficult to understand how a civilization so noble, so brilliant, whose manifestations have never lost their charm, and which in times past had so remarkable a power of expansion, seems to have lost its virtue in these latter days. It is one of the sorrows and mysteries of history.""


As the observation of a subtle mind, accustomed never to accept blindly current opinions as such, this is perfectly justified. For if we admit all the qualities that are habitually attributed to Arab civilization, if we are ready to bow in pious awe before the fascinating splendour with which poets and historians have adorned it, then it is indeed difficult to explain how the Empire of the Caliphs can have fallen into the state of decrepitude in which we see it today, dragging downward in its fall nations who, under other governance, had shown unquestionable aptitudes for civilization.

Could you consider what a world we would live in if Muhammad had died as a child - or if he had been finished off at Badr, and Islam had never existed? Since the Enlightenment spread throughout the Christian and Hellenic world, all of the Middle East and North Africa would now be flourishing first world. We would be fighting tooth and nail to send our children to the University of Constantinople, or wondering how the latest space-mission from Alexandria fared. We would be listening to the literature of Persia dramatizing the times of Cyrus and Darius, or enjoying the latest production from Mesopotamia.

What your religion has brought this world, what it has cost mankind, is beyond counting, and beyond forgiving.

1226. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207850 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 10, 2008 at 8:13 am

al, epeeist and everyone else, I am deeply, deeply disappointed in you. You're engaging in some first-class Islam-whuppin' and you don't invite me to the party?

How can you tell the difference between a Christian sock puppet and a Muslim one?

epeeist it's simple. The Christian one gives you a headache. The Muslim takes your head right off.

Okay, if Islam is so bleedin' scientific, why has the history of Islam been only one of stagnation and ruin? Why is it that Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Muslim world are such basketcases that even places like Tanzania point and laugh?

Hey, if we're going to play the science card, the Jews have produced almost three hundred Nobel Prize winning scientists (I have no time whatsoever for the other types of Prize). And how many Jews are there? While, from over a billion Muslims, only four of them have Nobel Prizes. Maybe you should find yourself a rabbi and think about converting.

I took a look at that cretinous website. Here's a taster:

If there is a creation, there must be a Creator

BEEP. Wrong? Why? I can see how complexity can come out of simplicity - see Darwin. I can't see how complexity can come from nothing, only to create simplicity again?

If He is the sole Creator/Sustainer -- He must be ONE.

Again, why? Why not a whole bunch of creators, collaborating? Hey, given that the majority of our Universe is radiation soaked vacuum, maybe most of the gods are interested in that, or in those giant balls of flaming plasma that are most of the rest? Maybe Allah is just a retarded infant who got to monkey around in a tiny portion of this vastness.

I could destroy just about every sentence on that site like this. Get ready, bucko.

1227. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #205527 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 7, 2008 at 12:15 pm

No, I think I'll wait until you've answered a few of the points I've left for you on previous threads instead of waltzing off to new ones and re-asserting your same old religiously unshakeable position.

What points? I have answered every one of your points.

Do you mean when I discussed the fundamental differences between Christianity and Islam? I've said my piece, and you still haven't refuted that. But even if you had, you still have not answered one of my points about Islam, despite the torrents of evidence that pour in on the news every day.

1228. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #205084 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 6, 2008 at 2:05 pm

On the subject of things that rile Muslim sensibilities, apparently Barack Obama's website does the same thing:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/021641.php#comments

1229. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #205083 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 6, 2008 at 2:01 pm

*nods* Thanks, Steve, I mean it.

If you can prove me wrong - on any of these issues or on any aspect of these issues - I'd be intensely grateful.

Thinking in terms of mass deportation, or the horrific alternatives, or of what may - what will - happen if CBN terrorism is used against the West, always feels unreal, like I'm trapped in some horror movie.

1230. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #205073 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 6, 2008 at 1:22 pm

Steve I appreciate your comments on shariah financing.

Yet what I am referring to is the advocates of Shariah law to be law of the land, or even parts of it. Bonzai is right in describing it as a Total System. It's an integral part of Islam.

No interpretation of Shariah can ever override the Hadith, much less the Qur'an. This is why not one of the schools of jurisprudence rejects the death penalty for apostasy. Nor does any of them reject the murder for those who blaspheme against Islam.

Yes, of course, many Muslims don't know what it is they are advocating. At least, I don't think they do. That doesn't change the nature of the advocacy though. Even if they do not know it, they are, in fact and in reality, supporting murder.

1231. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #205037 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 6, 2008 at 12:22 pm

I assumed we were discussing changing people's ideas, not defending yourself from actual physical attack.

We rightly charge someone who has incited murder with murder. You know my views on the deportation of Shariah supporters, because what they will bring to the civilised world otherwise.

I appreciate the point you are making, and the line can sometimes seem difficult to draw. Yet support for Shariah, by definition, is incitement to murder, rape, paedophilia etc.

1232. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #205015 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 6, 2008 at 11:56 am

If Jihad Watch is something we should read, get it linked to from here - submit an article.

How do I submit an article again? Sorry, didn't know that was possible. Tell me, and I'll get right on it.

You can only use reason. There is no other choice.

I don't see why. If a maniac breaks into your house at three in the morning, you don't waste time jawing with them, you call the police. Similarly with murderers, thieves and other riff-raff. Force is the only thing that works against them.

1233. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204989 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 6, 2008 at 11:23 am

In fairness, if Lord Phillips had tried explaining cross-jurisdictional rules, he'd still be there now and most of the audience would have died of bordeom.

Which is a problem in and of itself. If you look at the great lawgivers throughout history, right back to Hammurabi, you see a clean directness that we would do well to emulate. It is a very small step from incomprehensible law to non-objective law.

1234. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #204965 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 6, 2008 at 10:12 am

There are serious issues to be discussed here, but I don't think it is helpful to pick up on individual stories and try and generalize from them.

Steve may I make a suggestion? If you go over to Jihad Watch and read the archives for a while, especially on the subject of creeping Shariah. This isn't 'just a few stories' it's something alot more sinister.

People need to be persuaded that their ideas are silly in a civilized way.

What if they can't be? We are talking about people willing to kill their own children for offenses against honour, or apostasy, and those that flat out say they don't want freedom of speach. How the blazes do you persuade people for whom reason isn't a value?

1235. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204929 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 6, 2008 at 8:05 am

Rachel thanks for giving me the speech. It is a masterpiece of evasions, fog, and blur. Take this:

It was not very radical [of the Archbishop of Canterbury] to advocate embracing Sharia Law in the context of family disputes, for example, and our system already goes a long way towards accommodating the Archbishop's suggestion.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing, that we are already 'a long way'? No answer. What family disputes? Forced marriages? Honour killings? Apostasy? Or do they mean ones like divorce - where the wife has no rights to it, but the husband can gain a divorce by saying it three times.

It is possible in this country for those who are entering into a contractual agreement to agree that the agreement shall be governed by a law other than English law.

Which 'those'? Jewish courts? But do they specify anything contrary too English law? If not, then how are they not governed by it? No answer.

is no reason why principles of Sharia Law, or any other religious code should not be the basis for mediation or other forms of alternative dispute resolution. It must be recognised, however, that any sanctions for a failure to comply with the agreed terms of the mediation would be drawn from the laws of England and Wales.

If that's so, why do we need these laws in the first place? What mediations are you talking about - lashes for alcohol, for example? If common law is supposed to override this, then why do we need it in the first place?

Anway, anyone else want to take a shot at this monstrosity?

1236. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204897 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 6, 2008 at 5:39 am

My point was that *Phillips* should be more careful in the use of *his* language; if all he was advocating is that which Rachel Holmes and Eric Blair summarise.

Okay, thanks for clearing it up. However, I just think that Rachel Holmes and Eric Blair are absolutely wrong. This means what it says: the beginnings of Shariah law.

He shouldn't be ashamed because of his language - in fact, I am glad he phrased it clearely, not in some weasel way like "taking into account the diversity and pluralism of our modern day society, it is my view that there should be legal alternatives to our current institutions for those who do not share the traditions on which they are based, but come from other, equally valid, traditions". At least he's being honest.

What he should be ashamed of is suggesting this at all.

1237. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204883 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 6, 2008 at 4:26 am

The use of language is very important in all of this.

Agreed.

The use of language is very important in all of this. The term "Sharia" comes with a lot of baggage and stigma attached. If you strip away the misogyny, homophobia and use of violence contained within the Sharia, you are left with a skeleton that bears little resemblance to what you started with. Therefore, as with other terms that come with baggage - such as "coloureds" when referring to a race of people with dark skin - the term should be avoided at all costs.

Wait a second - this discussion is about the introduction of Shariah law, and we can't use the term Shariah? By what standard does that make sense?

This is about the use of Shariah - in whatever format - amongst Muslim populations. Yes, it's an unpleasant term, but that is because Shariah is an unpleasant thing. Because some knuckledraggers will 'use this wrongly' or whatever, we should avoid clarity and accuracy?

I am reminded of how superstition ridden people in the Middle Ages wouldn't name the Devil, for fear that he would appear. Seriously - do you think that if we do not discuss this, it will dissapear?

I find myself baffled.

1238. Prayer refusal pupils 'disciplined'

Comment #204848 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 5, 2008 at 11:26 pm

Fanusi,

You just like to pick on me don't you?

Actually not. You just had a very distinctive profile pic and as a result I saw your comment on this before anyone else's. Which was that this isn't exactly what it looks like: our dhimmicrat overlords crawling before Islam

No, I don't have it in for you in particular, thewhitepearl. But since you ask, could you explain something to me, something Mark Steyn brought up originally: Why is is that right wingers such as myself are the ones who keep speaking up about this issue? I'm a 'social conservative'. When the Mullahs take over I'll grow my beard out, get a couple of wives, and keep my head down. It's the gays and the feminists who'll have a rougher time of it.

I don't that it is at all fair to say that saying the Islamic religion is bad, is equivolent to saying all Muslims are therefore bad.

Well, I'm the official loudmouth Islamophobe extrodenair on this forum and I don't say that. The trouble is that enough believe in some really nasty stuff, and most of the rest are unable to oppose it because of their religious solidarity. And even those who do want to stop it are completely ineffectual, becuase the Jihadis and the Shariah lovers have the whole of the Islamic canon on their side. So the division between Muslims is roughly those who support Jihad and Shariah, those who do nothing to stop those, and those who are completely ineffectual in doing anything.

1239. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204842 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 5, 2008 at 11:01 pm

Why am I not surprised that there is no level of dishonesty Vin isn't capable of?

C'mon, not even Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a victim of the nastiest and darkest side of the form of Islam that raises eyebrows even in "Khartoum", never resorted to using such language. Why should you? If you're THAT concerned then I'd rather not know about it !!

You know damn well that that comment has nothing to do with what I want to see, but what I think we will see, if we have CBN terrorism here in the West. It's similar to my points about parties like the BNP: they are on the rise because of Islam.

I believe Sam Harris made a similar point in The End of Faith.

As regards your comments about Khartoum, this is the first point where you are changing the subject like that. You never were able to answer a single one of the sources I cited, nor are you able to answer them now. I think this says it all.

I think he has as much to learn from insiders as he has from those alien to the culture and dependent on biased journalism to nourish their intellect.

What, you mean insiders like Ibn Warraq? Ali Sina? Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Wafa Sultan? Walid Shoebat? Let me guess: they don't count (though they all seem to know a great deal more than you).

At least some of us know the language or have spent some time there

You know, sixty or so years ago, there were many Germans who had 'spent some time' in Germany, and 'knew the language', and were shocked, shocked I say!, to find out what was going on at Buchenwald and Auschwitz. So don't try to play that card. Your record of dishonesty is too long. Remember when you held up the Ninth Sura as an example of Qur'anic tolerance?



*reloads*

The raw power of ideas -- yes, because ideas exist independently of ideators and control people's actions without reference to their circumstances.

NakedCelt are you really that much of a fool? Ideas do, in fact spread, and once they have begun to spread, it is only a matter of time before pople act upon them. There is no need for a 'conspiracy', there is just the spread of those ideas by all sorts of means.

And, gee, are the ideas and tenets of Islam being aggressively spread by all sorts of means? Yes, in fact, they are.

And finally, NC, would it kill you to read my previous criticisms of this Khalid chappy? Or my point that our politicos are so gutless that they surrender even when it isn't necessary?

Rachel Holmes,

Last year, Parliament also passed a law to protect young women from forced marriage. It's not that one-sided.

Thanks for this; I appreciate it. However, I can't shake the feeling that this is not going to be enforced. Honour killing has always been illegal and a blind eye has very much been turned to avoid dealing with the problem.

1240. Prayer refusal pupils 'disciplined'

Comment #204665 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 5, 2008 at 1:16 pm

Over on the Shariah thread many said that this was only private, like the Jewish courts, and there was no way it would spread, and had nothing to do with surrender, and it was never going to come into conflict with common law.

Well, here's a reason not to believe that. And I should like people to own up to it now. People like me were right - and it gives me no pleasure, none, to say that.

But I doubt that any acknowledgements will be forthcoming. For example, here's thewhitepearl's response:

I don't think this article is telling the complete story..I have a feeling that there is more to this.

1241. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204410 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 4, 2008 at 11:53 pm

Just to add another doomsday scenarion, by twenty-fifteen in seven years time, Russia's army will be majority Muslim.

Welcome to the end of the world.

1242. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204405 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 4, 2008 at 11:28 pm

"The majority of British Muslims want to live only under British law and they would reject anything that means they are treated differently.

"What Lord Phillips and the archbishop are discussing is something that is completely outside their area of understanding."

Of course, NC. There is something going one where Europes politicos and media busybodies have some sort of perverse competition to see who can be Islam's lead prison bitch.

And this is leading them to make concessions even when there is no reason to do so.

I wonder how Mahmood fits into Fanusi's global Islamic conspiracy?

Okay, when exactly did I use the phrase conspiracy? That isn't what this is about at all. People who believe in conspiracies do so because they don't understand the raw power of ideas.

If you honestly think that a small group of radicals cannot cause massive damage, then you have learned nothing from the blood soaked history of the twentieth century.

Steve

So, Fanusi, are you intending to be a BNP supporter?

No. I am not about to support a party that has Nazi antecedents.

But that doesn't mean it won't rise anyway. I've been pointing out for a long time that the choices in Europe are bad and unthinkable.

Vin

I still live in the Muslim Middle East and can see which stereotypes are true of the average Muslim and which are a bit over the top. I'd like to share my first-hand experience to allow us to collectively make an informed (as opposed to a "reactionary") decision on how to tackle this nightmare.

Ah, you mean how informed you were about slavery in the Sudan? Informed like that?

I guess if 'reactionary' means a concern for human rights, then I am reactionary.

BTW, I can back up my points with a stack of research that Certain People have never been able to refute.

Rachel Homes

What Lord Phillips said was not a message of our weakness.

You may think so, but how do you think it's seen in the mosques of London? Everytime the Muslims cause serious trouble, we fold. We folded during the Rushdie affair, we folded over the cartoons - Europe seems hell bent on surrendering, so is it

Please, not all liberals are politically-correct, multi-cultural hand-wringers. I'm a "liberal" and I *despise* this naïve, defective take on things.

Of course not, but it must be obvious that liberals like you and Sam Harris are the minority. By and large, liberals hold the views that are the problem.

1243. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #204398 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 4, 2008 at 10:59 pm

I know I should resist, but there is something perversely enjoyable in being able to lower the guns to deck level and load them with grape.

LGS is a particularly vile specimen. Yes, Styrer, he is the same guy who routinely denigrates Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Those who sneer at greatness only reveal their own smallness.

Vin you may have noticed is trying to appear reasonable by playing the "I live in the Middle East so I know stuff card". Well, I could throw that one straight back, since the UK is now a hotbed of jihadism. And it would be a little more believable if he had not continually denied the slavery in the Sudan.

As a direct result, of course, he's scuttled off somewhere else

1244. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204275 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 4, 2008 at 2:51 pm

First of all, Rachel Holmes, the absolute last thing we want is to send the Muslims yet another message of our weakness. Period.

And yes, if racist BNP types want to settle a dispute by asking the biggest thug among them to give his verdict, why not? The fact that Lord Phillips would never say this indicates how pointless and misguided his statement was, though

Okay, let's talk BNP. If this goes on, who do you think people will turn to? A point that was made rather well in the Spectator:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/811021/whoops-someones-goosestep-is-showing.thtml

Currently the political choice is the BNP or Shariah for all of us. there's still a chance to get another choice, but that chance keeps diminishing.

1245. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204237 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 4, 2008 at 1:14 pm

Styrer, you said it.

There is no way to appease Islam. There is no way to do right by it. Don't even try. You're an Infidel, a kafir - something lower than an animal. Believing you can make nice to it is to be trapped like those Jews in Art Spiegelman's Maus who believe they can appease the Nazis. It's a terrible, tragic error.

But we're all jews now.

----------------------
UPDATE: I am not surprised that Vin is once again spreading nonsense and misinformation - and, if he really is a former Muslim, actually lying.

Shariah law can mean anything

No, it cannot. No school of Shariah overrides the Qur'an or Hadith. No school recognises Infidels as equal to Muslims. And no school demands anything other than death for apostasy.

This is the reason for my fury at the likes of Vin. Spreading this kind of disinformation and deceit is terribly dangerous.

Sorry, Vin, but some of us proud kafirs are capable of actually reading for ourselves what Islam teaches, and what the Shariah means.

1246. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #204231 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 4, 2008 at 1:01 pm

Styrer it's a terrible thing to absorb. This is real 'forbidden knowledge', something that it is very difficult to live with. I mean that literally - there have been times I thought of killing myself to avoid the darkness ahead.

But if I'm going to die, I might as well do so fighting Islam.

As regards Vin, I have this feeling he might have some filial loyalty to Islam, and doesn't like facing the truth; hence his denial of slavery in the Sudan.

Bonne chance, Styrer, in the days ahead.

1247. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #204185 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 4, 2008 at 10:21 am

I don't see it matters if the article is full of tired apologetics. That was not the point I was trying to make. It was that we have potential muslim allies. I do understand the points you are trying to make, but your sweeping generalisations may, I feel, do more harm than good.

Steve Zara you may have a point. I think we have Muslim allies in this struggle, especially amongst the non-Arab muslims who have suffered so terribly at the hands of the Arab imperialism inherent in Islam.

I just don't think that we have many - or even any - allies in those populations we have in the West, since those populations themselves are the problem, what is pushing some of the oldest nations in history to extinction.

Now the reason I get irritated by such asinine apologetics is that they help confuse the picture when clarity is needed most of all. And the reason I get furious at the likes of muslimlady and the rest is that we have been nice to them for far too long. If this nonsense had been stopped at the start we'd all be alot safer, and I have no patience - none - for those apologists, sympathists, cowards and moral cretins who keep acting as the Jihad's footsoldiers, consciously or not.

Which brings me to the subject of Vin. You'd think this guy would get it, wouldn't you? You would think he would learn that whenever he asserts something, I blast it out of the water in five minutes. But no, he keeps having to go back into the water.

*cue the music as the great beast rises towards the helpless dimwit*

I happen to know that study that Vin cites. It says that only seven percent of Muslims, absolutely, and without question, support the 9/11 attacks. Relax people! Only 91 million supporters of the Jihad!

Now, let's leave aside that this is far more than Hitler was able to count on. Consider how that poll is actually structured. It asked: Do you support the 9/11 attacks, with 1 being totally against, and 5 being totally for. Now, originally Esposito was going to count 4 and 5s together. Then it transpired - surprise surprise - that these numbers were even higher than such notorious Islamophobes as Daniel Pipes had estimated, namely that there were as many 4s as 5s: i.e. a total of one hundred and eighty two million supporters of those attacks. And top that figure up with another three hundred million who thought the attacks were in some way justified.

So, Vin, four hundred and eighty two million who in someway support the 9/11 attacks. Tell me, are you ever going to learn your lesson and quit wading into the water? Or am I going to make you fetch sticks until the end of time?


You can see a full review of that poll here:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/066chpzg.asp?pg=1

*its attack completed, the beast returns to the abyssal depths until the next unwary interloper*

1248. Sharia law 'could have UK role'

Comment #204166 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 4, 2008 at 9:10 am

hungarianelephant and others: get real. Do you really think it will stop there? Do you think for even a second that they will not enforce the full horrors of hudud punishments? Hell, we already have the horrors of honor killings and the murders of dissdents and apostates, not to mention genital mutilation.

And so the slide towards Eurabia continues, with the enlightened progressives only interested in greasing that slide.

1249. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #204086 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 4, 2008 at 5:40 am

Steve

Sorry, but you are sounding increasingly like a conspiracy theorist, dismissing anything that counters your views as irrelevant.

I appreciate that, But how does that article counter my views? Notice it says nothing about the oppression of non-Muslims at the hands of Islam. And it is loaded with the most fatuous apologetics that I am tired of. It's just so much white noise in terms of analysis and prescription.

1250. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #204057 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 4, 2008 at 4:36 am

Brian English noted, but this is nothing compared with what the Muslims want. I wouldn't be too sure about the education in faith destroying secular civilization. I had RE as a kid and I'm an atheist. Europe maintains state religions, and that's destroyed faith completely.

The point I was making is that hiding behind this sort of equivocation is nonsense.