1251. Creationism special

Comment #17641 by Logicel on January 15, 2007 at 8:48 am

JohnC, From the last audio in which Wolpert spoke (about a week ago), I had queried why he said that it is hard for teachers to teach evolution. I did not yet listen to this audio, but it seems that he is now saying that it is hard for students to understand evolution. If he thinks teachers don't understand it well enough than for sure no way will students be able to learn it from teachers. At this time, I am a bit cautious of Wolpert because of these rather odd statements of his.

1252. Conservative Atheists

Comment #17630 by Logicel on January 15, 2007 at 7:42 am

JohnC, Speaking directly from enlightened self-interest, I am glad that you are sober at present because you are a stimulating, thoughtful, and tough--but considerate--contributor at this site which benefits me.

From the last audio in which Wolpert spoke (about a week ago), I had queried why he said that it is hard for teachers to teach evolution. I did not yet listen to this audio, but it seems that he is now saying that it is hard for students to understand evolution. If he thinks teachers don't understand it well enough than for sure no way will students be able to learn it from teachers. At this time, I am a bit cautious of Wolpert because of these rather odd statements of his.

1253. Lil' Markie live, part 2

Comment #17597 by Logicel on January 15, 2007 at 4:26 am

Mark Fox sounds like a woman and not a kid. So all these upright, straight kids are getting a dose of a man impersonating a woman--not exactly what you think these parents would want!

Fox tortuously squeezes out via his much abused vocal chords such wisdom like kids want their moms to stay home so they will bake cookies and so they, the kids, do not have to eat the cruddy store-bought kinds. Hey, Fox, I don't think you or some in your audience should eat ANY cookies until you get down to a healthy weight.

1254. Creationism Song

Comment #17592 by Logicel on January 15, 2007 at 4:03 am

Luthien, Unhappy kids will be motivated to find a way out of their misery. The more these rabid supporters of religious superstitions pile on their crap, the more their kids will eventually rebel.

1255. Creationism Song

Comment #17591 by Logicel on January 15, 2007 at 3:59 am

Mucho cash was being collected at the door.

There were a slew of kids in the first row next to an adult female. The last bit of the vid focused on two kids (they were situated to the left of the last unsmiling kid that were lined up next to the female who was trying to encourage the kids to merrily go along with the song) looking pretty happy and going along with the song, but the rest of the kids in the room (I had to watch this crapola a lot of times to determine this) looked miserable.

1256. Send a Message to God: He has gone too far this time

Comment #17519 by Logicel on January 14, 2007 at 11:14 am

"sorry to pop your warm fuzzie bubbles."
______

It is Condorfree that is ensconced inside a warm fuzzie bubble.

1257. Send a Message to God: He has gone too far this time

Comment #17515 by Logicel on January 14, 2007 at 11:00 am

God's love is the kind I can do without. However, it seems that despite the bizarreness of G-Love, some still seem to bask in an irrational insistence that G-Love is and feels good.

Here's a great quote from the non-believing 16 year-old-daughter of PZ Myers (http://skatje.com/?p=103#comments) stating the basic reasons why one does believe in God:

"It feels so good. People want to believe in god because they enjoy that feeling that someone is watching over them and that they have a purpose in life. They also like thinking that someone that died has gone to "a better place." That helps with accepting death. It's really all jolly and things, but it's teaching the wrong mentality. Doing things simply because they "feel good" and closing your ears to truth and reason is hurting yourself more than helping. Whether it feels good or not, that doesn't mean it's true."

1258. Federal Way schools restrict Gore film

Comment #17497 by Logicel on January 14, 2007 at 5:48 am

good points, Magetoo, thanks.

1259. Religiously Arguing: A response to Michael Novak

Comment #17496 by Logicel on January 14, 2007 at 5:36 am

Mac Donald's reply can be even more appreciated when Novak's article (see Denoir's comment #17484 for the link) to which she is responding is read also.

She antiseptically slices through his fusty waffling about Catholicism being equivalent to Truth by her coining the following words: G-love and G-justice.

1260. You come up here and say that, Dawkins!

Comment #17481 by Logicel on January 14, 2007 at 2:37 am

"At least he's not picking it..."
_________

Are hail stones God's carefully picked snot?

1261. Religiously Arguing: A response to Michael Novak

Comment #17480 by Logicel on January 14, 2007 at 2:34 am

JohnC, If I remember correctly, you have had many years under your journalistic belt. Perhaps that is why you are able to analyse her writing so well. I am appreciating your analysis, and at least for this reader, I don't mind if you continue to do so!

1262. For Human Eyes Only

Comment #17383 by Logicel on January 13, 2007 at 7:22 am

Fascinating article. I really enjoyed reading this one.

1263. Federal Way schools restrict Gore film

Comment #17373 by Logicel on January 13, 2007 at 4:14 am

Myers says it all, "Hardison is a fringe element who can babble all he wants on the internet and in his home; the real problem is school board members like David Larson, who thinks the existence of an opinionated kook in his district is a justification for compromising the education of the kids of every family in that school district."

1264. Federal Way schools restrict Gore film

Comment #17371 by Logicel on January 13, 2007 at 4:00 am

Great comments at Myers site:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/01/ridicule_is_a_useful_tool.php

1265. Federal Way schools restrict Gore film

Comment #17369 by Logicel on January 13, 2007 at 3:47 am

Frosty's and Layla's particular brand of inanity is getting quite a harsh response in the blogosphere:

http://taintedideals.blogspot.com/

1266. Federal Way schools restrict Gore film

Comment #17368 by Logicel on January 13, 2007 at 3:41 am

I was so close to saying something harsh and mean about Gayla and Frosty but instead the posters here are covering the necessary ground, so I will refrain:

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/message_board.jhtml?c=v&t=4466&m=14589&o=0&i=2&s=la

Please, more Gaylas and Frosties need to open their mouths so everyone can hear the pathetic nature of their beliefs and how they need to be challenged and not respected when they cross the private/public line in the sand.

1267. You come up here and say that, Dawkins!

Comment #17364 by Logicel on January 13, 2007 at 3:20 am

And what is with God's sandal? If he lifts his foot above the back edge of the cloud, will it slide off and become a projectile of rage?

1268. Gentle Rottweiler

Comment #17362 by Logicel on January 13, 2007 at 3:13 am

briancoughlanworldcitizen, The EU and America both sicken me in this regard--the EU by blah blah blahing about solidarity with the world's poor and then choking off their economic growth with EU protectionism, and America blah blah blahing about how effective capitalism is for fighting poverty and then contributing to world poverty by its protectionism. A plague on both of their houses--how nice if locusts would come and eat up all of their crops? Come on, God, you did it once.

1269. Gentle Rottweiler

Comment #17357 by Logicel on January 13, 2007 at 2:53 am

"But might it not be that the advance of fundamentalism, the revival of religious belief, is dependent upon another sociological development, upon globaliaation, upon the spread of a materialist consumer ethic? In such circumstances religion provides a way of resistance, a way of affirming values other than those derived from capitalism and the market place."
______

Authentic globalization--where America would drop its absurd argricultural protectionism--would lessen world poverty. Capitalism is the least worst means of accomplishing that goal of reducing world poverty at present.

Religious people consume as much as the next guy. When JohnC asked why I think America is in the state that it is in regarding religious fundamentalism I had replied that excessive consumerism leads to being burnt out emotionally and that in their efforts to get meaning to their lives in the only way they know how to, Americans go 'buy' the sewage spilling out of the megachurches--a vicious circle ensuring that they will remain feeling empty inside, thus compelling them to consume even more via bigger houses, more clothes, holidays, etc.

Though a capitalist I consume with restraint, and the web is actually causing an economy of abundance is my own life--I save energy and materials by researching, communicating, reading, etc. via the Web.

1270. You come up here and say that, Dawkins!

Comment #17351 by Logicel on January 13, 2007 at 2:24 am

God has a huge nose. Perhaps he is leaning so precipitously over the airy cloud's fluffy edge to scout out a good cosmetic surgeon in Hollywood?

1271. Gentle Rottweiler

Comment #17347 by Logicel on January 13, 2007 at 2:06 am

JohnC wrote: "of how these different dialogues can co-exist without corrupting one's sense of truth and integrity."
______

The words apologists and appeasers denote contempt because they imply that one is corrupting truth and integrity. If a key can be made to open that door, so one can discuss and agree on how non-theists need to work together without the majority sacrificing their sense of truth and integrity, then we are onto something useful.

1272. Judge: Men can seek damages from church

Comment #17209 by Logicel on January 12, 2007 at 1:50 am

The Vatican is a festering pustule that needs to be popped.

1273. Readers Write: Atheist Sam Harris on Torture and Faith

Comment #17135 by Logicel on January 11, 2007 at 4:55 am

JohnC, I can't stand New Age drivel, and I am, myself, looking forward to Dawkin's presentation. I think New Age crapola is worse than the so called three great monotheist religions! There is no excuse for it because it developed well after important scientific breakthroughs regarding our understanding of the natural world.

Harris is a Ph.D candidate in Neuroscience, and perhaps I may be giving him too much slack for that reason. Apparently you are more familiar with Harris' writings than myself. However, the debate which is resulting from their opposing non-theistic viewpoints is interesting and informative.

1274. Readers Write: Atheist Sam Harris on Torture and Faith

Comment #17128 by Logicel on January 11, 2007 at 3:03 am

Would I torture someone to save a loved one of mine? No. What I would do would be to use all my energies to show how my loved one is a wonderful human--I would show videos, photos, play audio recordings, everything I had, including other people to come and talk about my loved one. This would go on non stop. Some would say that would be torture, well, in that case, it is a torture with which my loved ones and I can live.

1275. Readers Write: Atheist Sam Harris on Torture and Faith

Comment #17126 by Logicel on January 11, 2007 at 2:50 am

Thanks, briancoughlanworldcitizen, for your link to your blog. Why have you stop posting for over three months now at your blog? Spending too much time here? I will eventually read your back posts.

1276. Readers Write: Atheist Sam Harris on Torture and Faith

Comment #17120 by Logicel on January 11, 2007 at 2:31 am

briancoughlanworldcitizen, Harris saying that since we are dismissive regarding the truly horrid nature of collateral damage, we must then ethically match horrors--since collateral damage is horrid, then the horror of torture is permissible. Why does he not focus on both horrors equally--collateral damage and torture, and clearly condemm both?

Why not put all our human energies into preventing war? Us humans have a long history of it, and we are all tired of it. Some scientists like Watson and Wilson have stated that humanity has become less violent through the ages because violence is not productive in a densely populated world. Let us continue in that direction.

Gorenfeld's burning words regarding bogus atheism leads to sterilization of the human experience--my advice to him is to move out of California! Perhaps then his 'mental' seeds can sprout in fertile and REAL soil. Then he can understand that the mind is both a marvelous and little explored domain. Harris' field of neuroscience has and will continue to discover how human minds work.

Decades ago, when I was buying a Hawking's book, the checkout person dreamily held his book to her chest, eyes glazed over, saying, "Scientists like him will save us and the world!'. I grabbed back the book and said, "No honey, they will not, it will be me and you who will do the hard work, so stop dreaming and start working."

1277. Halting progress

Comment #17060 by Logicel on January 10, 2007 at 2:13 pm

captain underpants, use 'control u' and 'find on this page' to identify which html code is being used so you can copy it--you want the one for blockquote

1278. Halting progress

Comment #17046 by Logicel on January 10, 2007 at 12:12 pm

"Let people believe in fairies if they wish to: I would fight as hard to protect the right of the benighted to the stupidest beliefs as to protect the right of gays to equal treatment in all respects; but the condition is that they do not impose those beliefs on others, or the antediluvian morality that goes with it. And that is the line in the sand."
_____

And the supporters of religious superstitions keep blurring, obsuring, and erasing that line in the sand--as if we would somehow not notice!!!

1279. Consciousness Without Faith

Comment #16699 by Logicel on January 8, 2007 at 5:36 am

Thanks, Ironwolf for the link.

Ann Druyan: Well, because our language is a pre-scientific phenomenon we don't have a word for this feeling that isn't imbued with a sorry history. But we still have that feeling.

and

And I'm not ceding that feeling to the fundamentalists or to anyone else because it belongs to all of us. And not only that: without that, we're not going to attract many people to our way of thinking.

______

Humanity has lost so much--life, happiness, dignity, productivity, progress to the poison that is religious superstitions. We must not let the religites have a monopoly on spirtuality. I focus on the 'spirit' part of the word. Here are some definitions of spirit:

(http://www.thefreedictionary.com/spirit)

The vital principle or animating force within living beings.

A person as characterized by a stated quality: He is a proud spirit.

A particular mood or an emotional state characterized by vigor and animation: sang with spirit.

To impart courage, animation, or determination to; inspirit. The essential nature of a person or group.

A very small number of the definitions under spirit pertained to the supernatural. Supporters of religious superstitions believe that only they have the key to open the door to something special, worthwhile, and awe-inspiring. Instead, in reality, they are not opening that door, not even a crack. Let the secular humanists give out the keys to that door for everybody; don't hamper their inspired and courageous attempts to remove the last scrap of imaginary, tattered fabric off the delusion of a nude religious emperor--that they are the ones that are not spiritual. They are, in effect, spiritually bankrupt. They are like the proverbial rich person who is impoverished and don't have a clue.

1280. Secret Life of Brian

Comment #16689 by Logicel on January 8, 2007 at 4:35 am

I was also impressed with the energetic quality of Gilliam's comments, and came across this great video interview of him:
http://www.kayotix.com/tmp/newsfeeds/11.08.06/terrygilliam/

1281. The New Atheists

Comment #16465 by Logicel on January 6, 2007 at 5:18 pm

"...Prof. Cox to my mind, no matter how much one might disagree with his beliefs, at the very least has the honesty, strength of character and belief to plainly say that "God" is outside the realms of the mundane and does not need to be or even could be proven." (bold face is mine)
______

Resorting clearly and plainly to that ploy of God being outside the realms of the mudane is very common. Religites say what Cox said frequently. It is the basis of their insisting that their religious superstitions must not be criticized based on no evidence for such religious superstitions in the real world. That aspect of supporters of religious superstitions' was thoroughly discussed in TGD, forming a major thrust of what Dawkins is trying confront--that religious superstitions are not beyond criticism just because it resides outside the world of the mundane. This has been the reliable and predictable cloak of intellectual dishonesty of supporters of religious superstitions--it is as common as rain.

1282. Secular fundamentalists are the new totalitarians

Comment #16322 by Logicel on January 6, 2007 at 4:15 am

Pilot22A wrote: "Once again, the last refuge of the believer in supernaturalism is to attack, and this is a quite good attack. This guy is not a "moron" and this will sit well with his audience."
______

Jones' attack is a dime a dozen. If this mush will sit well with his audience that his audience better be toothless.

1283. Secular fundamentalists are the new totalitarians

Comment #16320 by Logicel on January 6, 2007 at 4:04 am

scottishgeologist, just too marvelous, love Atkinson's opening line, "I was not expecting the Spanish Inquisition."

1284. Executing Saddam Hussein was an Act of Vandalism

Comment #16318 by Logicel on January 6, 2007 at 3:39 am

ronnieharper, I really appreciated your comment. Thanks!

1285. Without God, Gall Is Permitted

Comment #16305 by Logicel on January 6, 2007 at 3:02 am

Jared wrote: "I take it as an insult when someone calls me 'young' as if that invalidates my arguments."

_______

You take it as an insult because it is an insult!

Your blasphemy challenge video is highly regarded--I was unable to rate it or comment because youtube is inconsistent in that regard. I enjoyed it very much. Thanks.

1286. The New Atheists

Comment #16284 by Logicel on January 5, 2007 at 9:07 pm

Religious fundamentalists ironically are easier to deal with--they either want to kill infidels/gloat about their eventual roasting in hell or try to save them. Clear and simple, you know with what you are dealing.

The god apologists, on the other hand, bring to mind that biblical saying about God spewing up the folks that are lukewarm.

1287. Without God, Gall Is Permitted

Comment #16273 by Logicel on January 5, 2007 at 7:15 pm

great comment, wallace, Thanks!

1288. The New Atheists

Comment #16264 by Logicel on January 5, 2007 at 6:45 pm

"It always makes a comeback, I think, when religious people get too arrogant, when they begin to look as though or speak as though they know it all, when they begin to impose themselves in ways that are unwelcome to other people in the society. Then atheism is a kind of, for me, welcome critique of this arrogance."
______

Very interesting comment, seems Cox is apprehensive of his own kind, that faith-based people can get carried away and need constraining. Why not encourage people to be rational in the first place, Cox? Or do you think that religites can just take a little opium and not get addicted?

1289. The New Atheists

Comment #16262 by Logicel on January 5, 2007 at 6:38 pm

"Well, the canons of proof are not applicable to that question, and it's not something that can be proved or disproved."
______

Sorry bud, the burden of proof is on the believers.

1290. The New Atheists

Comment #16261 by Logicel on January 5, 2007 at 6:35 pm

"He takes the most narrow and the most legalistic side of religion and makes that religion, and then he's against it."
____

Dawkins focuses on the very core that is rotten in any religious superstition: encouraging and rewarding people to accept beliefs based solely on faith. His focus is neither narrow or irrelevant to all religions regardless to whichever degree of intensity they are practiced.

1291. The New Atheists

Comment #16259 by Logicel on January 5, 2007 at 6:30 pm

"He suffered an assassination attempt in Rome and attributed his survival to the intervention of Our Lady of Fatima. A maternal hand guided the bullet. One cannot help wondering why she didn't guide it to miss him altogether."
______

A quick, penetrating wit is charming. Oh wait a minute, then I guess Dawkins can't be a new atheist then? Drat, too bad, because he would be able to do alot for us.

1292. Without God, Gall Is Permitted

Comment #16258 by Logicel on January 5, 2007 at 6:23 pm

"Without God, Gall Is Permitted"
_____

And with God, ignorance is encouraged and rewarded.

1293. Without God, Gall Is Permitted

Comment #16257 by Logicel on January 5, 2007 at 6:16 pm

It will be non-theists of ALL AGES working and organizing and supporting each other that will achieve success.

1294. Without God, Gall Is Permitted

Comment #16256 by Logicel on January 5, 2007 at 6:15 pm

As scooternyc covered the grounds concerning the stupidity of bringing the age of someone as a considering point as to the maturity of language that is used in expressing oneself, I, as an old fart that champions youth will just say, Kudos scooternyc!

1295. Without God, Gall Is Permitted

Comment #16253 by Logicel on January 5, 2007 at 6:10 pm

It seems the apologists are getting what the new atheists are about--they just don't like it!

Non-theists are organizing and will lobby--which is an important departure from the 'old' atheists' way of doing things.

What's the matter, you 'charming' apologists, don't you want us atheists to be represented in society? Don't you want us to be honest and clear that we are fed up with superstitions being paraded as something valuable and useful to humanity?

Yup, the apologists are getting what the new atheists are about.

1296. Without God, Gall Is Permitted

Comment #16252 by Logicel on January 5, 2007 at 6:04 pm

"The new atheists fail too often simply for want of charm or skill."
_____

And the 'old' charming atheists succeeded?

1297. Atheists challenge the religious right

Comment #16147 by Logicel on January 5, 2007 at 2:00 am

Several posters at this site have commented on how the power of the Web is assisting in getting the nontheist stance out and about:


http://businesslogs.com/web_20/digg_and_youtube_powering_atheism_20.php

1298. Atheists challenge the religious right

Comment #16146 by Logicel on January 5, 2007 at 1:54 am

MeIM, Thanks very much for that link to a video showing Wafa Sultan's majesty of passionate, articulate secular humanism. Now, that is real righteousness!

I have bookmarked it, and will link to it when Christians bleat that only the 'gentle' Christians are being taken out to the nontheist--I prefer this term also over atheist--woodshed for an 'undeserved' whipping.

1299. Executing Saddam Hussein was an Act of Vandalism

Comment #15957 by Logicel on January 4, 2007 at 1:51 am

Denoir wrote: "These are of course extremely complicated questions and the answer won't of course be as trivial as a "dictator gene". However, if we wish to know it, we can't destroy it as we are destroying valuable information that could lead to future prevention. If we know the mechanisms then we can do something about it."
_______

I have recently watched a video on google of Charlie Rose interviewing E.O. Wilson and James Watson. Watson said that the last great revolution in biology was the merging of chemistry with biology, and that the up and coming one will be the merging of psychology with biology.

Also, brain imaging techniques which are available now were not present during Hilter's time. And more such tools to understand how the brain works will be created.

However, this approach is not easily accepted by the average person. I think of how native Americans hated and fought the analysis of their ancestor's bones. On one level, I agreed and was as equally horrified, and on another less emotive level, I was horrified that we, as a collective species, were denied access to invaluable information.

Though strongly provocative, I am supportive of Dawkins stating his viewpoint concerning this controversial aspect which will be inevitably discussed more and more as time goes on.

1300. What are you optimistic about? Why?

Comment #15767 by Logicel on January 2, 2007 at 6:02 pm

"And I am optimistic that this final scientific enlightenment will deal an overdue deathblow to religion and other juvenile superstitions." (boldface is mine)
___________

What adjectives can be used to modify superstitions without being superfluous? Certainly not negative, silly, nonsensical, unrealistic, or unfounded. The only adjectives that I can think of that are not superfluous but are descriptive are religious and non-religious (ex. not walking under a ladder, regarding a black cat crossing your path as being either good or bad luck--depending on the culture, etc,) To what purpose does modifying superstitions with juvenile serve? The implication being risked here is that it is okay for juveniles to have superstitions while it is not for adults, or that juveniles tend to have superstitions.