1351. The problem with secularism

Comment #14365 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 6:25 am

"...instigate one of the most stimulating and innovative movements in modern theology..."
______

My head slipped near my keyboard in somnolence several times during this stimulating and innovative article. I suppose these bloke's theological colleagues who profess a less stimulating approach would cause a mass coma upon their readers.

1352. The problem with secularism

Comment #14363 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 6:20 am

mryder66 said, "...to which these learned gentlemen should be ashamed to attach their names."
______

apparently these gentlemen are ill learned.

1353. The problem with secularism

Comment #14343 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 5:48 am

Philip Blond, Adrian Pabst, their bad.

1354. The problem with secularism

Comment #14341 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 5:47 am

Oh my.

1355. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #14340 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 5:39 am

briancoughlanworldcitizen said, "You selfish atheist BASTARD."
_______

And being an atheist, I can't even blame the devil for tempting me in the form of a demonic digestive!

1356. CBC Segment on Evangelist Christians

Comment #14337 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 5:30 am

The 2.0 web-based economics of abundance, contrasting the economics of scarcity upon which is what free market principles are based, is also an interesting topic. Point in question, is the decision of my not buying TGD. I had decided not to because so many of Dawkins writings are available on the net, and also RD himself in reviews that I read on the Net stated that his book is simply a compilation of many previous writings. However, my husband being the free thinker that he is, went ahead and bought it, and I now realize that the purchase was worth every penny we spent on it!

1357. CBC Segment on Evangelist Christians

Comment #14335 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 5:16 am

JohnC, Fundamental Christianity reared its ugly head during the eighies, while I lived in America. Scandals knocked it back, and then it become prevalent again, and recently, has endured similar scandals and is no longer held in its recently former pristine light--so a repeat pattern.

When it was surging in the eighties, I was amazed and had no 'disciplined' explanation for its strength other than my subjective opinion that American mass culture is toxic, superficial, un-thinking, and repulsive. The 'masses' enjoy crapola it seems. I do not see any individualistic tendency in this embracing of the common cultural denominator, though the vendors of this mass culture practice the free market approach.

I also support the notion of quality, that we, in our individual and collective endeavors need to strive for quality, and as long as the avenue to this quality seeking is open to all, then it is not elitist, which is the 'credo' of Wikipedia, which also encourages all editors to be BOLD.

It is also my subjective opinion that America is in a sort of vicious circle--embracing of free market principles allow for the selling of a lot of crapola which sates American material appetite but does nothing for something more lasting and satisfying than the next McDonald burger so they 'buy' the sewage spilling out of the commercial mega churches to stave off their deeper hunger for meaning.

Though I am a libertarian in my economic viewpoint, and I think American markets are not liberal enough, especially in its international agricultural market dealings, I, myself, make it a point not to consume. As my husband recently said, if everybody did what we do, the world global economy would come to a halt.

1358. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #14333 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 4:26 am

Some of us have just started a thread on Kids Self Education:

http://www.richarddawkins.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=7

Check it out.

1359. I love the commercialisation of Christmas

Comment #14330 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 4:06 am

Edutheria, a thread on Kids self education has just been started here:

http://www.richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=57997#57997

You are most welcome to contribute, as is anyone else.

1360. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #14324 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 3:07 am

BushYakker said, "I also deny eating the last chocolate digestive."
_____
Dead right, because it was I who ate the last chocolate digestive!

(For the Americans: chocolate digestive is a less sweet, more rich in fat, and round version of a chocolate grahm cracker)

1361. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #14322 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 2:58 am

"Rather than encouraging young Christians to denounce their faith, you should be very hopeful they hang onto it, since rising Muslim demographics in Europe mean that very soon, probably in your lifetimes, atheist sites will be under severe and possibly physical pressure from young European Muslims."
____

France strongly enforces Laicite and have for decades. During the recent riots throughout France but particularily in the Parisian suburbs, the rioting was not due to muslims protesting because France is not a muslim state but because the unemployment among the muslim population is significantly higher than the already high unemployment in France.

Not only do the theists project their blind allegiance to 'overlords' onto us, they are also scrambling for a fear carrot to dangle in front of our rational noses. We are not frightened of eternal damnation, so they try to come up with something that will scare us so much that we will retreat from our atheistic confrontation with theists. And they fail every time, because they just keep on projecting what works in their theistic communities onto our's.

1362. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #14319 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 2:47 am

jefferson, great sarcasm, and I got it this time!!!

1363. CBC Segment on Evangelist Christians

Comment #14308 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 2:04 am

I appreciate the time that Sancus, Edutheria, Cholmonedeley, Greyed, Jared, JohnC, and others have given on this topic of free-market libertarianism and socialism.

I regard the conducting of this topic as being done is a very admirable way, and I encourage it to continue as long as there is interest in doing so. I also think that it is very positive that the opposing sides conclude that they will continue to promote atheism despite their differences.

I have lived in America for around 40 years, and about 15 in socialistic Europe. And you could say that I am confused about the benefits/disadvantages of both! Many times, here in Europe, I am disgusted by the lack of individual initiative--for example, the majority of the young French's only aspiration is to become civil servants--but at the same time impressed and consoled by what appears to me to be a much nicer society in which to live. So it a topic very close to me.

1364. The Trouble with Atheism

Comment #14297 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 1:09 am

Yorker, Upon investigating, I do not see a way of starting a new discussion at the forum, and the only existing topic that is somewhat relevant to what we what to do is under Civic Action.

1365. The Trouble with Atheism

Comment #14294 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 1:01 am

Yorker, It is my understanding that you can start a thread at the forum here at this site, and the people who are interested in this topic can go over there. Please do that. And we can copy and paste the posts that have been done already in this thread to the new discussion thread. You can announce here the new thread when you open it up.

1366. I love the commercialisation of Christmas

Comment #14219 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 2:06 pm

Edutheria, excellent posts, thanks.

1367. 7 monks injured in clash over monastery

Comment #14214 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 1:55 pm

Vadjong, hysterically funny!!!! Tee shirts need to be printed up with the slogan, Strafebomb Athos with used sanitary towels!

1368. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #14213 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 1:50 pm

Peterg has given new meaning to the saying, 'Peter Piper Picked a Peck of Pickled Peppers'. If he apologizes he will look like an idiot, if he does not he will also look like an idiot--quite a pickle he has got himself in!

1369. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #14209 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 1:45 pm

Veronique said, "The only way that makes sense for anyone to denounce Islam is for a group of equally brave recovering Islamics to do a similar thing as RRS has done but in their own country."
_____

Great point and well said. Thanks!

1370. The Trouble with Atheism

Comment #14207 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 1:35 pm

Luthien said, "The question is: how do we organise this collection into a 'journey' that can be tailored to each individual that visit's the site?"
_______

Be patient with me here, I am musing out loud--I have a main blog site to which I contribute and use as my core avenue for knowledge during my work day, in the form of links, other blogs, and comments, and posts by the contributors. It is fantastic--when necessary, I can ask questions and also I can answer questions. When I go to one of the blogs linked on the site, I am welcomed. It is a learning community of the first order. It is a community of stock market daytraders! The main site is a mansion, but it contains many doors to other rooms where I can choose to go depending on the nature of my knowledge quest.

1371. Richard Dawkins on the Mike Dickin Show

Comment #14195 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 12:50 pm

no problem, jefferson, be as sarcastic as you want--I enjoy sarcasm. As I now know that you have a penchant for it, there will be a greater chance I will not misunderstand your sarcasm the next time that you are.

1372. 7 monks injured in clash over monastery

Comment #14194 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 12:46 pm

Vadjong, now that tickled my funny bone--thanks!

1373. Richard Dawkins on the Mike Dickin Show

Comment #14190 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 12:36 pm

jefferson, I get the sarcasm now! It sounded so much like the dysfunctional logic of a Christian hence my response--meaning I did not create the world with its inequality between poverty and wealth, God did.

1374. Richard Dawkins on the Mike Dickin Show

Comment #14187 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 12:11 pm

The last time I looked at myself in the mirror, I did not see God.

1375. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #14184 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 11:49 am

Yorker, I agree. So I will talk to you instead. It is encouraging to see that people do agree about the courage shown by the young denyers of the Holy Spirit.

However, what is not agreed upon, is that atheists somehow must wear the same stripes when challenging theism. Apparently all atheists that do not do what has been suggested, that is, we dig up the moolah to open up a website to encourage young muslims to deny Allah means we are denying our principles as if all atheists share the same exact principles and share the same exact way of demonstrating them.

Even if I had the moolah, I, myself, would not have done what the RRS has done with their Holy Spirit denying challenge. It is not my way. Does that make me any less of an atheist? No, it does not.

1376. Richard Dawkins on the Mike Dickin Show

Comment #14182 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 11:40 am

Jefferson, God is not well known for being consistent in his actions.

1377. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #14173 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 10:47 am

Many of the young denyers of the Holy Spirit did not show cowardice because they were denying the god of a 'gentle' group of supporters of religious superstitions, that is, the Xians, but instead showed personal courage to denounce what is a very important aspect to them and their communities. Hence, their denial was meaningful and courageous. You are taking their courage that was needed to do what they did out of the context of what they did and what they are doing--as the BC is on-going.

1378. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #14168 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 10:37 am

As far as denying Allah in a situation where I would get killed for doing so, that would not be courageous but STUPID.

1379. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #14167 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 10:34 am

I DENY ALLAH!

1380. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #14149 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 9:25 am

"We know why, because he is SCARED and prefer to pick on gentle Christians."
______

This really sticks in my craw. Gentle in whose book? Not mine!

1381. The Trouble with Atheism

Comment #14051 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 2:07 am

Sancus listed this link earlier and I just viewed it now, and wow, what a beauty, if only I had access to this when a child instead of the lame catechism to teach me proper morality--instead I had to struggle through decades to reach the same conclusion:


http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf

1382. The Trouble with Atheism

Comment #14048 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 1:52 am

Niels Thorsen, said, "...however I cannot fully blame the parents. The parents are usually products of the same perpetual system.

Content geared toward children would likely speak to the 'psychologically adolescent' mind of the parent as well. This would be an added benefit to designing the content in this way. Both parent and child might make the journey toward intellectual maturity together, creating a very powerful combination."
________

And for those children who have parents who do want to make such a journey, that child will still have access to other parents that are making the journey with their children.

1383. The Trouble with Atheism

Comment #13959 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 9:22 am

It breaks my heart to think of the lonely atheists like Woody Allen, Richard Branson, Noam Chomsky, Richard Dawkins, Penn Jillette, Camille Paglia, Kurt Vonnegurt, and Bill Mahr being all alone this holiday season because they are so anti-social, esp that Bill Mahr, not a social bone in that body for sure.

1384. The Trouble with Atheism

Comment #13957 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 9:10 am

Luthien, I agree! The child should be their own teacher.

1385. The Trouble with Atheism

Comment #13954 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 9:05 am

I just did a search on how many articles/videos/audios that this site has offered up for discussion, and they are, at this point in time, the grand whopping number of 389.

Though I have not ploughed through them to determine the number that negatively criticized Dawkins, TGD, and atheists in general, I remember many more than three.

The backlash corner contains articles that are so biased, so ridiculous, that they are segregated from the main discussion. The main discussion also can have a segregated troll comment discussion thread. We are open minded and focus on critical thinking, but we do not bear truck with outright garbage, and we focus on developing discussions of quality.

1386. The Trouble with Atheism

Comment #13926 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 6:10 am

Yorker, great stuff and I really appreciated the sports item--bread and circuses. Sports supporters actually fight and maim each other over their sports teams.

1387. Kim Hill interviews Richard Dawkins

Comment #13924 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 6:03 am

JohnC, thanks for providing the author's name and the title. Point taken with my use of the word, 'laywoman.' I corrected it.

I think it was Steven Rose who said that trying to play the nature/nurture game was impossible, that it was like trying to unbake a cake which cannot be done.

1388. Richard Dawkins on the Mike Dickin Show

Comment #13920 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 5:34 am

Aussie, I remembered your concern about Dickin's health and made it a point to find out the reason for his death, and it was not because of a lung-related disease but because of a car pile-up. But of course, he could have had a lung disease, and could have died from that if he had not died in a car pile-up first.

I also have 'premonitions' that come true spectacularily, and I attribute it to my very strong pattern recognition skills. And of course--and I think Dawkins mentioned this in the TGD--we only remember the premonitions that work. I am betting that both of us have made some that did not work, but we do not remember them. It is similar to being exposed to a random selection of numbers, and lo and behold, our phone number surfaces, and we attribute meaning to it just because that particular series of numbers have meaning for us.

It has been a refreshing experience to hear posters comment on Dickin's life and death without resorting to "He is with God now," or any combination of the common statements following death that has the word god in it. See, we can function communally in times of stress without leaning on the imaginary sky buddy. The more we do, the more we will continue to do it.

1389. Kim Hill interviews Richard Dawkins

Comment #13917 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 4:38 am

And who says that us Dawkins' 'worshippers' do not criticize the guy?

1390. Kim Hill interviews Richard Dawkins

Comment #13916 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 4:37 am

Sancus, Perhaps you can name the author who wrote a book about 7 years ago--she might have not been a psychologist, just a sensible woman who researched and came up with quite a psychology-establishment feather-rustling conclusion. That conclusion was that parental upbringing is much less a serious influence than is commonly thought, and it the larger community outside the family that is the major influence in all our lives, and that parents only indirectly cause this influence, by choosing where their children live and go to school.

1391. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #13914 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 3:55 am

The top of the search list is this very funny and witty blog entry dated Jan. 18, 2005:

http://krankiboy.blogspot.com/2005/01/return-of-religites.html

1392. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #13913 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 3:51 am

As Dawkins in TGD mentioned doing a net search on the word, 'meme' to rate its contagion potency, I did so for the new meme on the block, 'religite':

http://www.google.com/search?q=religites&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=mozilla&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial

The search yielded 139 results, a couple were repeats, and one possibly not connected to the meme so around 135 bona fide results.

1393. The Trouble with Atheism

Comment #13899 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 2:29 am

Niels Thorsen said, "The most profound question posed is that which elicited the response from Richard Dawkins that should atheism win out, ~'mankind might be so weak that it requires something to replace religion'."
_______

Humanity's potential to be strong has been squashed. Most education focuses not on thinking critically, but instead on towing the line, and also on not owning ourselves. Why would governments and powerful groups/individuals support and encourage such kinds of teaching? They have a lot to lose if they did.

Humanity is weak-minded because we have all in some way joined in the efforts to feed our children mind-numbing mush.

1394. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #13893 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 1:59 am

franknhonest, I am a baptized--which means there is an indelible mark on my 'soul' delineating my rank and membership in the Catholic faith for all eternity--and confirmed Catholic to boot. I also understand that denying the Holy Spirit must include both a profound honesty and an understanding that denying the Holy Spirit needs to include the recognition that the Holy Spirit is defenseless in the face of the devil. Therefore the following and totally honest words come from the deepest recesses of my mind and body: I DENY THE HOLY SPIRIT.

That feels wonderful, and I highly recommend doing it!

1395. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #13888 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 12:53 am

Sancus, I don't bear much truck with loyality. It is like humility, it can be blind like humility can be false. What I use instead is consistency. If I follow my principles, then my life actions will show a consistency, the core of my actions will be quided by this consistency, and upon examination, all actions will be seen as deriving from this consistent application of my principles. This gives me flexibility in how I can express my consistency. Anyway, it works for me. And I just adore your user ID, it always has such a calming effect upon me every time I see it, so it is very potent even for a 'disloyal' person like me!

I agree with your saying that the Ted letter is way too long, but at least its length was to serve the almost impossible goal of appealing to opposing audiences--a believer and non-believers of many different viewpoints notorious for their inability to be organized. And I have found also, that working via a wiki does not cause more indecision, but insteads provides fertile ground to come up with a whole, better and much more potent than its parts.

1396. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #13887 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 12:42 am

Jared, Using synonyms for collective gatherings in general, and not just for animal groupings, I came up with a BOUQUET of atheists (emphasizing the different individuals that embrace atheism) and a GALAXY of atheists (referring again to the many different individuals that can be atheistic)

1397. The Blasphemy Challenge

Comment #13885 by Logicel on December 20, 2006 at 12:30 am

Veronique, your echo link did work--on this site when a link is clickable, it is a lighter shade of black. Don't hesitate to ask questions here concerning using the Net, and also, remember google is your friend. If you come across net slang, etc., google the keywords, and most likely after a little effort, you will find a answer.

For including links, you either copy and paste the link from the url field (top of your browser page) or highlight the url field with the cursor and use control/c, then put the cursor where it is needed, and then use control/v for pasting. The most simple way is to put your cursor in the url field, right click on your mouse, and select copy, then use the cursor to decide where you to put the info, and then paste.

Note that on the right upper hand of your comments are edit and delete buttons--you can correct your published comments or even delete them if you so desire.

1398. The Trouble with Atheism

Comment #13834 by Logicel on December 19, 2006 at 3:59 pm

Martin said, "Don't they actually implicitly admit religion is something silly, and science is great?"
_______

Yup, that is exactly what they do. And they wonder why they are not taken seriously!

1399. The Trouble with Atheism

Comment #13688 by Logicel on December 19, 2006 at 5:23 am

After reading that article written by Liddle posted earlier at this site, I have decided to use my precious time for something else to do, and not watch this video. Since I can find so much intellectually challenging material on the net, a writer has just one chance to grab my interest, and Liddle failed in that attempt.

1400. Richard Dawkins on the Mike Dickin Show

Comment #13533 by Logicel on December 18, 2006 at 5:47 am

He-man Daunted World, I am looking forward to seeing the TV show that Dawkins has recently finished concerning his addressing the inane New Age religions. Some here find the biblical nonsense unbearable, for me, it is the new age approach that says that a pure, better than the human, flawed consciouness version exists crapola that makes me see red.

So Dawkins is my Santa supreme, two Christmas presents--TGD and this program yet to be aired debunking new age religion.