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Comments by Geoff


101. Mecca should become core to measure time zones: scholars

Comment #165363 by Geoff on April 21, 2008 at 11:48 am

50. Comment #165354 by Barry Pearson

Have you read the Atlas of Creation?


...you forgot to mention the fishing lures:

http://forbiddenmusic.wordpress.com/2008/01/09/atlas-of-creation-by-harun-yahya/

102. Pope's Views on Science Invoke Spirited Debate

Comment #165241 by Geoff on April 21, 2008 at 8:47 am

So much drivel, so little time...

"The tree of knowledge is fed through spiritual roots," he wrote, "and without those it will wither and die."

"The church at the time of Galileo was much more faithful to reason than Galileo himself...Its verdict against Galileo was rational and just..."

He proposed that using human beings as "mere biological material" at their most defenseless stage calls into question the very concept of humanity.

"there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution" but that the theory still had room for God to play a role.

"There is need for contemplation about how religion informs science..."


OK, just underline them.

103. Resentment Over Darwin Evolves Into a Documentary

Comment #165234 by Geoff on April 21, 2008 at 8:39 am

:)

One of the sleaziest documentaries to arrive in a very long time, "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" is a conspiracy-theory rant masquerading as investigative inquiry.


Nicely done.

104. Mecca should become core to measure time zones: scholars

Comment #165230 by Geoff on April 21, 2008 at 8:37 am

It would be nice to get away from that irritating AD/BC dating though.

I think we should lobby for a change to AD and BD, so we're now in the year 199 AD.

Can't see that anyone could complain about that...

105. Evolution exhibit shows why nobody's perfect

Comment #165217 by Geoff on April 21, 2008 at 8:26 am

I'd love to see that! Any chance of a UK tour?

106. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #165123 by Geoff on April 21, 2008 at 5:03 am

107. Ben Stein Vs. Sputtering Atheists

Comment #165110 by Geoff on April 21, 2008 at 4:23 am

16. Comment #165000 by rod-the-farmer


You can fool some of the people all the time, or all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool ALL of the people ALL of the time.

P.T. Barnum ?


Nope: even better: it was Abraham Lincoln!

Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute", which is equally appropriate...

108. Religion is 'the new social evil'

Comment #164709 by Geoff on April 20, 2008 at 3:12 pm

Quite correct, Richard, and no need to apologise for pedantry: many of us positively revel in its exercise.

Getting back to the survey, though, some of the quotes lead me to believe that TGD has already had a measurable effect in "consciousness raising".

"children should be taught to derive their conclusions from evidence and logic, not the ravings of deluded idiots".

109. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164703 by Geoff on April 20, 2008 at 2:53 pm

2951. Comment #164697 by MPhil

ROFL!

110. Religion is 'the new social evil'

Comment #164700 by Geoff on April 20, 2008 at 2:41 pm

This one, linked to originally by Barry Pearson, seems to have the most detail.

It's all worth reading, but the religion part starts at around page 30.

Some quotes:

Some participants focused on the role of religion in politics arguing that "we should not be making any political or educational decisions based on religion". One person criticised the fact that there are faith representatives in the House of Lords, but a more common complaint surrounded the influence of religion in education. For example, citing religion as a social evil, one participant went on to say that "children should be taught to derive their conclusions from evidence and logic, not the ravings of deluded idiots". Another criticised the fact that "religious doctrinaires [are] increasing their grip on the UK education system with government support".


Some people saw religion as a social evil because it "undermines social cohesion" and is "a force for separating people". Participants also felt that religion can actively encourage intolerance, towards some groups in particular: "Faith in supernatural phenomena inspires hatred and prejudice throughout the world, and is commonly used as justification for continued persecution of women, gays and people who do not have faith".


Several participants felt that the irrationality of religion is so clear that our tolerance of it is unjustified: "The idea that a person can believe a proposition to be true in spite of no supporting evidence, and even in spite of evidence to the contrary, is something that should not be automatically granted respect, but treated with contempt".


Edit: forgot to include the link!

http://www.socialevils.org.uk/documents/social-evils-report.pdf

111. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164694 by Geoff on April 20, 2008 at 2:23 pm

Steve: then use "ToE" instead, to avoid ambiguity?

The fact remains that the two definitions are equally valid: indeed we've used that argument ourselves when creotards (not you, Karda!) try to deliberately confuse the two.

Evolution is an observed fact: a change in the inherited traits of a population from one generation to the next.

Evolution by artificial selection, is still evolution, even though it's a very recent development.

112. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164676 by Geoff on April 20, 2008 at 2:00 pm

2815. Comment #164347 by Steve Zara

It should really be called

NaahIJustDontBelieveYouCosOfGenesis


Henceforth, that shall be its name.

(#2854) If you want to talk about selection by intelligence, that is a different matter. It is not evolution as we understand it.


Um. Depends whether we're talking about "evolution" or the "theory of evolution by natural selection".

As stated, Karda has a point here doesn't he?

(#2846) Would you say that the evolution of chickens in the last thousand years has been guided? What about now that we are knocking out and directly inserting genes into species? Not even natural selection any more, but it is still evolution.


"Change in gene frequencies over time" is [the fact of] evolution (though not, of course, ToE).

Nitpicking? Perhaps, but I do think there's an important distinction between the two ways the word "evolution" is used - the fact that it happens, or the theory of how it happens.

We all know that in your argument you're using the word as verbal shorthand for ToE, but it's not always clear.

113. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #164561 by Geoff on April 20, 2008 at 12:12 pm

2828. Comment #164540 by The Reverend Dark:

Welcome back!

114. Gods and earthlings

Comment #164498 by Geoff on April 20, 2008 at 10:40 am

You seem to be saying that biology is not science. Can you elaborate?

Even TGD, probably his least "scientific" book, contains much good science, as Steve Zara and others have already pointed out.

115. Gods and earthlings

Comment #164488 by Geoff on April 20, 2008 at 10:20 am

147. Comment #164479 by moderationsmuse


I'm a great believer in science promotion. Just wish Dawkins would do some of it.


Have you read "The selfish gene"? "The extended phenotype"?. "The Blind watchmaker"? Have you watched his Royal Institute Christmas Lecture? Have you read any of his published, peer reviewed papers?

I suggest you do so before making yourself look even more uninformed.

116. Sex for diploma offer caught on tape

Comment #164295 by Geoff on April 20, 2008 at 2:55 am

Steve, as black wolf says, the main point, as I see it, is the [lack of] educational standards of the school.
The hypocrisy of "biblical morality" is incidental.

Still, as with the Ted Haggard case, it's "another brick in the wall".

117. Sex for diploma offer caught on tape

Comment #164146 by Geoff on April 19, 2008 at 4:02 pm

Lying down for jesus?

118. The Child Preachers

Comment #164138 by Geoff on April 19, 2008 at 3:49 pm

34. Comment #163842 by Santi Tafarella


Geoff,

One more quick thought, then I'll shut up and see what others have to say.

As to "Little Miss Sunshine," I wouldn't ban such competitions--even though I find them personally repugnant and would not put either of my daughters in a pageant.


Again, I haven't seen the film, so I'll have to hedge my comments somewhat to explain my viewpoint, as I don't know in which of the categories below it belongs.

I'm not against child beauty contests where the children are dressed as children - "bonny baby" contests, for example - it's the (in my view) inappropriate image of such children being dressed as sexually desirable women that I feel should be banned. That's my own personal viewpoint, which I wouldn't seek to impose on anyone, but I feel there should perhaps be some sort of referendum to see whether mine is a majority view.


I also wouldn't ban cheer leading classes--even though it reinforces sexual stereotypes.


That's a different topic; not only are cheerleaders generally "of age" legally, they're also old enough to make their own decisions.



I'm wondering to what degree you value cultural freedom--and how you would enforce bans on cultural practices. Would you jail parents who signed their kids up for a "Little Miss Sunshine" competition, or who taught their kids to fear hell?


Not jail, no; I'd like to see more of a "consciousness raising" process, really. I'd like to see the societal view of such things heading the same way as it has with slavery, homophobia, dog-fighting, sexism, racism, child labour, women's suffrage...all the things in which we've progressed so much in the last century or so.

119. Flea of the week

Comment #163792 by Geoff on April 19, 2008 at 3:16 am

Good point, Katherine, but I think one very small shrubbery would be enough for the expected sales of this latest drivel.

120. Gods and earthlings

Comment #163790 by Geoff on April 19, 2008 at 3:13 am

73. Comment #163761 by Steve Zara

...solar sail propulsion combined with the use of big lasers...


Moties!

121. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163783 by Geoff on April 19, 2008 at 2:57 am

Apes, fish, dust, bacteria...what are you lot on about?

I thought it was established by now that we came from Kiwi fruit? Or penguins...or something..I lost track...

122. Sexpelled: No Intercourse Allowed

Comment #163773 by Geoff on April 19, 2008 at 2:36 am

...Are you folks cabbage patch tolerant?


The evolution of the cabbage patch tolerance gene (SAVOY-6) is a fascinating subject.

123. The Child Preachers

Comment #163772 by Geoff on April 19, 2008 at 2:29 am

I can't bring myself to listen to it, after being so revolted by "Baby Bible Bashers" when it was featured.

However, to address one of Santi's points:

And if so, would you also prevent parents from putting their little girls in beauty contests ala "Little Miss Sunshine?"


I haven't seen that film, but pre-teen beauty contests in general, yes, absolutely. I find few things as sickening as seeing little girls with full make-up and "sexy" clothes.

124. Sexpelled: No Intercourse Allowed

Comment #163579 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 2:50 pm

cynthax: you should see his earlier ones! These recent ones are positively eloquent by comparison!

125. Sexpelled: No Intercourse Allowed

Comment #163534 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 1:32 pm

http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2008/media/0418aaas_statement.pdf

Statement of the American Association for
the Advancement of Science (AAAS)
Regarding the Importance of the Integrity
of Science as Depicted in Film

Worth reading, and promoting! Any "DIGGers" in here?

126. Flea of the week

Comment #163526 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 1:10 pm

A multilingual cosmic Jewish vampire, presumably.

127. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163520 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 1:02 pm

2438. Comment #163517 by annabanana

What's wrong with Penguin worship? They are obviously a "transitional form" in the timeline of evolution. They have evolved to repurpose their wings as paddles. What's the kiwi got on that, huh?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfOlH4LOxFw

128. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163518 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 12:57 pm

2415. Comment #163432 by cordura5

I'll have a little go. I suspect Steve's PM will contain many of the same points, although more eloquently and rigorously expressed. I need the practice, though!

A lot of the 'proven' scientific experiments that are taught in the textbooks in our schools have been disproven in the past twenty years,


One doesn't "prove" scientific experiments, or even scientific theories. Theories must be "falsifiable, though, ie capable of being disproved - often, but not necessarily, by experiment.



such as how life was created from a primordial 'gel' when the earth was first formed. I will have to get all of my notes together to give you specifics on everything I have learned.


Citing the sources will be sufficient. In any case, that's abiogenesis, not evolution. There are a number of hypotheses of abiogenesis, but just because we don't yet know how life started is no reason to invoke a "designer".


Just a few things recently though, (my seven month old son is crying because he's hungry), many say that Jesus did not even exist. However the are ancient texts from parties that were not Christians, but just plain historians of the day.


Very, very few. Had he really existed, in the sense of the miracles he supposedly performed, one would expect a lot more than brief mentions by Josephus and Tacitus.


The other thing about aliens coming and creating our world... Where did they come from? Did aliens create them? If so, then where did those aliens originate?

That's admitted speculation, but if they do exist, it's virtually certain that they evolved from simpler beings.


Scientifically, everything has to have a beginning and an end.




That's simply false.


So what was the beginning of it all? One of the theories is The Big Bang. Well, what created that? It is a bunch of questions such as this that got me thinking.


See above. And see the "Ultimate 747 argument".

Once I feed my son and get all my notes, I will return here to discuss this. Sorry to have to cut it short now, but a hungry baby crying in your ear doesn't do much for your concentration!


Of course! No hurry!

129. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163509 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 12:42 pm

2416. Comment #163433 by al-rawandi

Kiwis command my respect.


Blasphemers remained (Penguin worshippers mostly, but there were perhaps those from the Church of Latter Day Ostrichs as well, but I am not sure) they have since come to see the light.


Think about it.... flightless bird.... logic..... flightless bird.....logic.


I assume you're using Kiwipedia for your research...?

130. Gods and earthlings

Comment #163502 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 12:28 pm

Dr B:

precisely!

131. Flea of the week

Comment #163496 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 12:22 pm

Paula, you busy...?

132. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163405 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 10:00 am

2406. Comment #163394 by Bonzai

Since children are not born with any knowledge,--well assumming there is no reincarnation,-- what is not "indoctrination" in your definition?

Indoctrination:

...the process of teaching a partisan or sectarian point of view

...teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically

...instruction in the fundamentals of a system of belief (such as a philosophy or religion).


http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&defl=en&q=define:indoctrination&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

133. Yoko Ono, Filmmakers Caught in 'Expelled' Flap

Comment #163401 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 9:51 am

161. Comment #163379 by Santi Tafarella

But I tend to make up my own mind about films and books...


Well, yes, but on what basis do you decide which to see or read? That's all most of us are doing; reading reviews, and the background of the subject, to see if it's a film worth paying to see. And, in the main, deciding not to.


The same argument has been used for reading all the "flea" books. I've read a few, found that they all say much the same thing, and decided not to bother with any more. Other peoples' reviews have reinforced my decision.

134. Fleabytes

Comment #163386 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 9:21 am

I stand corrected. I remember there being a discussion about that some time ago, but couldn't remember the outcome.

135. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #163385 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 9:18 am

2181. Comment #162751 by al-rawandi o


Geoff,

I win the "Pedant Award" for 4-17-2008.


17-4-2008.

136. Sexpelled: No Intercourse Allowed

Comment #163365 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 8:42 am

161. Comment #163287 by epeeist

I was thinking exactly that. Not as wooterish as the usual tripe.

...but still tripe.

137. Sexpelled: No Intercourse Allowed

Comment #163266 by Geoff on April 18, 2008 at 5:45 am

some of us just go one bird further...

138. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #162744 by Geoff on April 17, 2008 at 11:46 am

al-rawandi, you are. of course correct. I just copied and pasted it without checking the detail! My apologies!

139. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #162730 by Geoff on April 17, 2008 at 11:16 am

2106. Comment #162605 by Steve Zara

I'm quite happy to be labelled as "loopy"; no difference to my real-life persona really.

Epeeist:
I assume you're familiar with this old joke;

********************************************************
Radio conversation released by the Chief of Naval Operations,
10-10-95. Transcript declassified 21-05-96. Frequency classified.
*********************************************************

ship 1: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a
collision.

ship 2: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid
a collision.

ship 1: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR
course.

ship 2: No. I say again, suggest you divert YOUR course.

ship 1. THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS MISSOURI, WE ARE A LARGE WARSHIP
OF THE US NAVY. DIVERT YOUR COURSE NOW!

ship 2. This is a Canadian lighthouse. Your call.

Cartomancer:

And I won't even start on the things I get up to with a sonic screwdriver...

More effective than a left-handed antique fork-firing crossbow called Cecil?

140. School bars same-sex partners at formals

Comment #162698 by Geoff on April 17, 2008 at 9:37 am

80. Comment #162679 by Border Collie

Well, sorry about weeweeing on the campfire, but they DO go to a church school ...


Fair point, but not all church schools will have such strict rules (Certainly UK church schools don't). I wonder if the rule was in the original list that the parents would have seen before enrolling their children?
Also, of course, as hungarianelephant points out, they're hardly likely to know at such a young age that they are gay.

141. Fleabytes

Comment #162697 by Geoff on April 17, 2008 at 9:31 am

I see it as more like the analogy Christopher Hitchens uses about the pope surviving a bullet wound.

These people see it as god's plan that they (alone) survived the crash: wouldn't a better plan have prevented the crash altogether?

Another analogous story that springs to mind is Asimov's "The Star".

142. Fleabytes

Comment #162539 by Geoff on April 17, 2008 at 3:51 am

Kinda changing the subject, but still on-topic in the sense of theists twisting things to suit their delusions:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/04/16/congo.crash.survivors/index.html

A missionary family from Minnesota is glad to be alive and together after surviving a plane crash in the Democratic Republic of Congo

At least 36 people died as the plane plowed through a market and burned. Most of the people who died were on the ground

"I think the Lord has a plan for us, otherwise we wouldn't have survived," he said. "He still has work for us to do."

Some plan!

143. School bars same-sex partners at formals

Comment #162500 by Geoff on April 17, 2008 at 3:14 am

78. Comment #162385 by Bunnyzai


So I wonder if boys without dates would be allowed, they are probably masturbating...


...which isn't actually forbidden by the bible, as I recall from the story of Onan - they just don't like people enjoying themselves.

144. Yoko Ono, Filmmakers Caught in 'Expelled' Flap

Comment #162474 by Geoff on April 17, 2008 at 2:42 am

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/

PZ's on the case, too, of course!

Anyway, no matter how the lawyers dance, one thing is clear: the makers of Expelled have been paragons of ethical dubiety, doing their best to skirt the edges of the law and sneak as much doubtful, dishonestly obtained content into their little propaganda movie as they can. I guess they had to skimp on the budget for the actual content of the movie to scrape together a very large advertising budget â€" it's as if their movie is a metaphor for all of Intelligent Design creationism.

145. School bars same-sex partners at formals

Comment #162146 by Geoff on April 16, 2008 at 8:26 am

56. Comment #161925 by Cartomancer

I think this is a generational thing. It didn't happen at the school I went to in the 70's. But according to wikipedia UK schools are afflicted as well.


I got my GCSEs in 1999. This means it's either a very recent phenomenon indeed or Somerset was significantly behind the rest of the country on the uptake. Either is plausible...


My two children left school in 2004 and 2006, and both had balls (even my daughter!). She went to hers, my son couldn't be bothered.

146. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #161583 by Geoff on April 15, 2008 at 12:27 pm

Crazy time, indeed.

I'm off to the pub.

147. Victims: Pope Benedict Protects Accused Pedophile Bishops

Comment #161558 by Geoff on April 15, 2008 at 12:06 pm

Nothing new here.

148. School bars same-sex partners at formals

Comment #161554 by Geoff on April 15, 2008 at 12:04 pm

I found this an extremely confused article, even by their standards!
Most of the peculiarities have already been pointed out.

I wonder, though, whether the "law of unintended benefits" might come into play here. Maybe making them choose between their bible and their partner might help them escape the clutches of their religion?

149. For sale: 13-year-old virgin

Comment #161461 by Geoff on April 15, 2008 at 10:15 am

176. Comment #161293 by irate_atheist

Swift application of Occam's razor reveals that, quite simply, Henri is a prick. Anything else just adds superfluously to the length of his member.


That, sir, is a quite splendid metaphor. When one considers the juxtaposition of razor and prick, one cannot help but think of circumcision, and which part would be better discarded.

150. Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss

Comment #161459 by Geoff on April 15, 2008 at 10:09 am

I too think that this format (and the Paula one) are far more enjoyable than a debate format.

In a debate, one gets the same old tired non-statements from McGrath and his ilk, which then have to be debunked, and this means the really interesting stuff never gets a look in.

My only criticism is the quality of the sound from the audience mikes. (I listened to the Google version; don't know if the other formats are any better in that regard).

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