Comments by darwin2

101. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #56414 by darwin2 on July 15, 2007 at 4:48 pm

Comment #56208 by roach on July 14, 2007 at 1:23 pm

"Please change your handle. It's embarrassing. "

That's your problem not mine.

"What are these souls made of? are they energy or matter?"

As I have said frequently in these posts, our souls are made of pure energy. Please see comment# 62 above for further clarification.

"You also have the infinite regress and a whole bunch of other conceptual problems to deal with. You practice self-deception and wishful thinking better than anyone I have encountered. That's not a compliment."

Your belief that God does not exist or that consciousness does not continue after death may be your own self-deception and wishful thinking.

102. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #56410 by darwin2 on July 15, 2007 at 4:36 pm

Comment #56206 by PeterK on July 14, 2007 at 1:09 pm

"So God once existed before anything else did, if he created all that exists? RIGHT?"

Yes God existed before any thing else.

( and if the contents of post #32 on this thread had sunk in the first time, I wouldn't be posting this--again )
From post #32 The problem here is that consciousness means to be conscious of SOMETHING, and if there is nothing to be conscious OF, there can be no consciousness. At that point the theist will say something like "God is conscious of himself." But God could not exist in the first place if his entire being is dependent on being conscious--which again means he must be conscious of something.

Again He is conscious of Himself

103. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #56409 by darwin2 on July 15, 2007 at 4:27 pm

Comment #56203 by PeterK on July 14, 2007 at 1:01 pm

"The problem with the idea of omniscience is that it contradicts the attribute of omnipotence. If God knows the future with infallible certainty, he cannot change it—in which case he cannot be omnipotent. If God can change the future however, he cannot have infallible knowledge of it prior to it's actual happening—in which case he cannot be omniscient."

"read this one a few times too."

Omniscience and omnipotent are not contradictory. If God wanted to change the variables of existence He can. Has God changed the variables in the past? I don't know. I have doubts that He did.

104. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #56406 by darwin2 on July 15, 2007 at 4:15 pm

Comment #56197 by robert s on July 14, 2007 at 12:10 pm

"So, when it comes to doctors and lawyers, other people's 'subjective' opinions are to be avoided. What counts is reality and you want your advisors to be as 'objective as possible"

Doctors have misdiagnosed and some lawyers have taken cases that they know their clients have no chance of winning. Their subjective opinions are definitely to be avoided if they don't match reality. That is unless you don't care if the doctor misdiagnoses you and has unnecessary surgery performed on you or your lawyer charges you $10,000 for your case when he knows your case is meritless.

"You've already admitted your belief in the survival of consciousness has no objectivity, so what makes your 'subjective' belief more interesting than that of your doctor or lawyer?"

I have never discussed my subjective beliefs with my doctor or lawyer and thus I don't know if my subjective beliefs are more interesting or less interesting than those of my doctor or lawyer.

105. Believing the Unbelievable: The Clash Between Faith and Reason in the Modern World

Comment #56211 by darwin2 on July 14, 2007 at 1:46 pm

Sam Harris accurately describes the folly, superstition, evil and irrational dogmas of organized religion. However these justifiable criticisms do not negate the existence of One True God, The Designer and Creator of our universe and all other universes that may exist.

106. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #56196 by darwin2 on July 14, 2007 at 11:49 am

Comment #56186 by robert s on July 14, 2007 at 11:03 am

"When you go to a doctor or a lawyer, do you ask for their 'objective' or 'subjective' opinions?"

I sure do. If some doctor tells me I have cancer and 24 hours to live, I want to make sure his subjective diagnosis is objectively correct. I would therefore go to a second doctor for a confirmation.

If I was going to sue someone and my lawyer told me I had a great case but he wanted $10,000 up front to litigate my case, I would want to confirm that his subjective prognosis for my case matched objective reality. I would then ask him the following question. If my case is good, will you take it on consignment and charge only from the proceeds from winning my case? If he told me that he could not do this then I would conclude his subjective analysis did not match objective reality and I would not pursue my case.

107. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #56194 by darwin2 on July 14, 2007 at 11:37 am

Comment #56105 by Lauregon on July 13, 2007 at 6:58 pm

"The burden of proof is upon those who claim the existence of something supernatural, not upon those who don't claim the existence of something supernatural."

You are absolutely correct. When we die if we find ourselves conscious on the other side, I will make it a point to look you up and say "Lauregon here is the proof you are looking for!"

"Your views are far more subjective than mine in that yours appear to be idiosyncratic and specifically and singularly yours."

And vice-versa!

108. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #56192 by darwin2 on July 14, 2007 at 11:29 am

Comment #56103 by Lauregon on July 13, 2007 at 6:45 pm

"If your God differs from the "God" of Judeo-Christian-Muslim faith---or any other "God," for that matter, then you're not talking about the same "God." Using the same term for a differing "God" creates confusion. If you're trying to communicate ideas to others, it's a good idea to avoid ambiguity. Of course, maybe you have some reason for choosing to employ ambiguousness."

"Actually, they don't necessarily do so. For example, "The Creator" can refer to an impersonal, cosmic, non-anthropomorphic, non-theistic, non-miracle-performing deity who doesn't intervene in human affairs and doesn't have any interest in doing so. And as I've already said, using the term "God" in our culture is usually taken by most people to mean the highly personal, highly anthropomorphic, angry, punishing, capriciously favor performing Yahweh-Jehovah "God" of The Book. Since you insist your "God" isn't the latter "God," it's odd that you're content to employ ambiguous terms for your subjective "God." But then, maybe ambiguousness serves a purpose for you."

Let me list below the things I have in common with the Judeo-Christian-Muslim faith.

We agree that there is one God.
We agree that God is infinite, all-powerful and all-knowing.
We agree that God is loving, merciful and perfectly just.
We agree that God created all that exists.
We agree that God has a purpose for human existence.
We agree that humans have souls that survive the death of the body.
We agree that the soul is eternal.
We agree that a judgment for humans takes place after the death of the physical body.
We agree there is a hell where souls have to account for their transgressions against God's laws.
We agree that there is an eternal heaven.
We agree that human destiny is not on Earth but in the after-life.
We agree that angels exist although I call angels God's administrators.
We agree that God wants us to do good actions and avoid doing evil actions.
We agree Faith is necessary for our beliefs.
We agree that God wants us to love our neighbors as ourselves.
We agree that God wants us to love, respect and enjoy all of God's creations.

Where we differ is on the belief in an eternal hell. I believe in hell but only a temporary hell and Earth is a temporary hell. We disagree on the purpose of human existence, on redemption, on original sin, on the devil and on the nature of post-death judgment. And their concept of loving, merciful and perfectly just radically differs from mine.

109. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #56188 by darwin2 on July 14, 2007 at 11:11 am

#56033 by USA_Limey on July 13, 2007 at 11:57 am

"What evidence do we have that when the brain dies all electrical and chemical processes end?"

"Lots of evidence."

Yes, there is lots of evidence that the brain dies but as I have stated frequently above, our eternal soul only temporarily occupies our physical body. Subjectively I conclude the eternal soul survives. Subjectively you conclude the eternal soul does not survive. Objectively or scientifically speaking, neither you nor I can prove our subjective conclusions. Death will give us the correct scientific answer. If consciousness continues after death, you will get the scientific evidence to prove that my conclusion was correct and consciousness does continue after death.

"So, I do not assign equal weighting; it is not 50/50."

"Not even close."

The survival of consciousness is an either or proposition. It is a 50/50 possibility. This is the only truly scientific way to analyze this issue.

110. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #56185 by darwin2 on July 14, 2007 at 10:52 am

Comment #56028 by robert s on July 13, 2007 at 11:38 am

"Do you not think it hypocritical to claim 100% confidence in a proposition you admit you calculate to have only a 50% chance of being true?"

No because when I say 50%, I am talking objectively or strictly scientifically about the possibility of my beliefs being true or false. When I say 100%, I am talking subjectively about how I truly believe my beliefs to be true.

111. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #56036 by darwin2 on July 13, 2007 at 12:09 pm

Comment #56008 by PeterK on July 13, 2007 at 8:02 am
106. Comment #55869 by Lauregon on July 12, 2007 at 5:23 pm

"The assertion that a thing is unknowable carries the necessary implication that you are omniscient — that you have total knowledge of everything in the universe and, from your unique vantage point, are able to proclaim that something is inherently beyond the reach of man's knowledge and understanding"

I make no claims to being omniscient. However, I believe God is omniscient and does have total knowledge of everything in the universe and that God is beyond the reach of man's knowledge and understanding.

112. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #56035 by darwin2 on July 13, 2007 at 12:01 pm

Comment #55888 by roach on July 12, 2007 at 6:52 pm

"At the very least, stop using the loaded word "God" and replace it with "The Creator(s)" or something like that. Then read some popular evolutionary biology and some cosmology/physics articles and watch this creator vanish in a puff of smoke. We now know how that the simple can rise to the complex."

What difference does it make if I use the term "God" or "The Creator?" They both mean the same things. They both mean a Being who is infinite, all-knowing, all-powerful, loving, merciful and perfectly just.

I have read some of the popular biology and cosmology/physics writings and I did not "watch this creator vanish in a puff of smoke." These writings only reinforce my beliefs in "The Creator."

113. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #56031 by darwin2 on July 13, 2007 at 11:48 am

Comment #55869 by Lauregon on July 12, 2007 at 5:23 pm

"God" in ordinary modern day Western discourse refers to the anthropomorphic monotheistic deity of Judeo-Christian-Muslim faith. What "God" are you referring to? Further, why do you feel so strongly that your understanding of "God" is more accurate than that of orthodox believers, and why do you come here to argue for your theism when you have only your subjective opinions to offer?"

I come here because I enjoy engaging in mutually respectful dialogues with people who think differently from me. For the most part this is what I find here.

I differ from the monotheistic deity of the Judeo-Christian-Muslim faith in this way. I believe God is loving, merciful and perfectly just. The Judeo-Christian-Muslim God is neither loving, merciful or perfectly just.

Yes, my beliefs that God exists are subjective. Similarly your beliefs that God does not exist or may not exist are also subjective. We disagree subjectively. Objectively speaking, neither you or I can prove God exists or doesn't exist.

114. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #56027 by darwin2 on July 13, 2007 at 11:28 am

Comment #55840 by robert s on July 12, 2007 at 2:45 pm

"Perhaps could express the reasons for your belief that consciousness survives death in those sort of terms?"

All we can say is at this moment in time we have absolutely no scientific evidence to prove either that consciousness survives death or that consciousness ceases at death. It's a 50/50 proposition. However what is 100% certain is that we are going to die and if consciousness survives death, we will get the correct answer quickly. Subjectively I believe 100% that consciousness survives death. Objectively speaking, I realize I could be 100% wrong.

115. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55835 by darwin2 on July 12, 2007 at 2:27 pm

Comment #55646 by PeterK on July 11, 2007 at 9:00 pm

"However I can assure you, if you chose to remain posting and debating here; continuing your attempts to defend the position of theism you have posted, I can guarantee you they will all be refuted with sound reasoning. If you have even shred of respect for the veracity of reason, hopefully sooner than later you will clearly discover this to be the case."

That is why I love this website. It is nice to experience "sound reasoning." I have tried to discuss my beliefs with born again Christians. Unfortunately what I experienced was everything but "sound reasoning."

116. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55834 by darwin2 on July 12, 2007 at 2:20 pm

Comment #55578 by A on July 11, 2007 at 3:06 pm

"Darwin2 it would appear you are somewhat of an idiot, no great crime there, we all have our flaws, but let me clarify what I have written for you."

"You say that I 'sound like a born again Christian who says their position can't be wrong. When what I have in fact said is that - an atheist cannot be inerrant - look up the big words, replace them with easier words and see what it all means."

"best of luck."

I agree with your resonse. You have given me a well deserved spanking. I misread your statement. It was pure sloppiness on my part. I apologize.

117. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55831 by darwin2 on July 12, 2007 at 2:15 pm

Comment #55546 by Science H Logic on July 11, 2007 at 1:36 pm

"Like Hitchens i lost it for a second with his "look at how great and wonderful the universe is, there must be a god", has he read ANYTHING at all from the opposition? I'm really sick of these 10 minute debates. Its allways the same damn arguments from the christains "where did we come from then?", "how do you know what is really right or really wrong?". It seems so pointless."

The point is that in order to eliminate the evils that organized religion has historically perpetrated on the human race we need open dialogue. We need authors like Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens to attack these evils. We also need authors that can show that religion and science can be complementary and compatible and that it is not evil to believe that God created our universe approximately 13-14 billion years ago and that God used evolution and natural selection as the means to create life as we know it.

118. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55826 by darwin2 on July 12, 2007 at 2:04 pm

Comment #55545 by Johnny O on July 11, 2007 at 1:35 pm

"That is exactly why we don't believe it. Show the evidence for it and we "could" change our minds. Religious people, despite the lack of evidence, don't."

"Why believe in something that can't be supported with evidence? In fact not "WHY DO" you believe it... "HOW CAN" you believe it?"

"There is no brainwashing required on our part."

I strongly believe extraterrestrial intelligence is abundant throughout the universe. I think it would be a fair assumption to say that most scientists agree on this statement. However, we have no evidence to back this claim. For all we know we could be the first and only planet to have developed intelligent life. Similarly, my observations of the universe led me to conclude One God, the Supreme Designer and Creator exists and from that starting point I asked deep questions and found answers to these questions. That is how I can believe what I believe.

119. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55825 by darwin2 on July 12, 2007 at 1:54 pm

Comment #55540 by Johnny O on July 11, 2007 at 1:26 pm

"Would you like to make a wager on which of these two happens most?"

No, I think we may agree on this. My answer is the preachers and friends.

"The thing about most Athiests is that they do analyze the evidence. You can't do this for religion, because there is none."

Yes, I agree there is no evidence to prove the existence of God or that consciousness continues after death. But there is evidence that humans die and that humans possess consciousness. The most scientific thing we can say about the existence of God and the survival of consciousness is that we don't know. But we do know we will die. If consciousness survives the death of our bodies, we will get the correct answer and this is as scientific as you can get on these issues.

120. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55821 by darwin2 on July 12, 2007 at 1:40 pm

Comment #55527 by Lauregon on July 11, 2007 at 12:12 pm

"You said earlier that as finite beings we can't know or understand the infinite, and yet you don't shrink from telling people here what awaits us after death and what "God" is like and what "he" wants and expects."

No, I don't because this is what I believe. But I always qualify my beliefs by telling people these are my subjective beliefs. Objectively I make it as clear as I can that my beliefs may be totally wrong. Death will give the correct answer. And if I find myself conscious on the other side after I die, I feel confident my beliefs will be confirmed as true.

121. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55820 by darwin2 on July 12, 2007 at 1:28 pm

Comment #55523 by TIKI AL on July 11, 2007 at 12:02 pm

"Sorry, but godbots like bush, cheney, rove, regency college grads hired for their religious views and evangelical voters have brought terrible times to the United States and the world."

I agree and I did not vote for Bush and Company in the last election. All we can hope for is that in the next Presidential election we get someone better. I dread getting someone as bad as or worse than Bush. Let's hope Americans wake up from the incompetence of this administration and not make the same mistake.

"The gloves are off. Stay in your tax-free church and out of the government. We don't want a theocracy."

I don't belong to any church and I most certainly do not want a theocracy. If the next presidential election comes down to a holy roller candidate and an atheist, I will vote for the atheist even if the atheist is incompetent.

122. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55816 by darwin2 on July 12, 2007 at 1:14 pm

Comment #55522 by Lauregon on July 11, 2007 at 12:02 pm

"It seems more and more as though Darwin2 has smeared lipstick on creationism and convinced himself into believing he's left it behind."

I have never believed creationism as taught by fundamentalist Christians. However I do believe God created our universe and used evolution and natural selection as the means to create life on our planet

123. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55530 by darwin2 on July 11, 2007 at 12:22 pm

Comment #55394 by Theocrapcy on July 11, 2007 at 2:10 am

"Darwin2: You are clearly insane. Please check yourself in to the nearest mental institution immediately.
your mum"

Please go to comment 77

124. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55529 by darwin2 on July 11, 2007 at 12:16 pm

Comment #55394 by Theocrapcy on July 11, 2007 at 2:10 am

Theocrapcy I have read your 13 statements. All I can say is that I respect your beliefs and I ask you to respect mine.

125. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55525 by darwin2 on July 11, 2007 at 12:12 pm

Comment #55380 by PeterK on July 10, 2007 at 10:55 pm

"you give me the awful impression of ( I hate to say it )of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position-- ever."

Well PeterK your "awful impression" is wrong. I have read Dawkins book "The God Delusion" and Harris' book "The End of Faith." Both were excellent and I totally agree with their positions on the evils of organized religion. I am now in the process of reading Hitchens' book "god is not GREAT."

Now go back to your dip.

126. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55524 by darwin2 on July 11, 2007 at 12:03 pm

Comment #55328 by A on July 10, 2007 at 4:09 pm

"Atheists, by definition (that is, a negative position) cannot be inerrant, the same is not true of (or possible) of history's recent slew of populist monotheists, who by their own voice, cannot be errant."

That's the most arrogant unscientific statement that has been made on this website. You sound like a born again Christian who says their position can't be wrong because the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Come on, for Pete's sake, give me a break.

127. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55521 by darwin2 on July 11, 2007 at 11:57 am

Comment #55323 by Lauregon on July 10, 2007 at 3:24 pm

"Hmmm. That seems at odds with all you claim to have concluded about God and the life you believe exists after the death of the human body."

Why do you say it is "at odds with all you claim to have concluded?"

128. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55520 by darwin2 on July 11, 2007 at 11:52 am

Comment #55320 by Lauregon on July 10, 2007 at 3:15 pm

"So, you believe the authors of the Bible were men of erring minds, but that your knowledge of "God," unlike theirs, is accurate?"

Subjectively that is how I believe. Objectively, I realize my views could be totally wrong. If I find myself conscious after my death, I will get the correct answer and so will all you atheists.

"Earlier you implied that you KNOW what heaven is like, but it appears that you're really just speculating. In addition, your God sounds very anthropomorphic, a god-form you've said your god isn't."

Yes, you are correct. It is speculation but my beliefs reflect what I truly believe to be true. Yes, you are correct that my "God sounds anthropomorphic" because I am a man and my beliefs are a product of my thinking. Again they reflect my genuine beliefs.

"This "violation" sounds like another version of original sin, something humans have done to disobey an almighty god's laws."

Yes, you are correct again. It is another version of original sin but it is my original sin and not that of another. The Christian version makes me responsible for some sin some mythical man named Adam committed. I am responsible for my original sin and all my sins since. Since the creation of my eternal soul by God, I have violated God's laws of physics frequently by incorrectly using energy. That is why I am temporarily stuck in this physical body. However, I take full responsibility for my violations of the laws of physics and I assure you I have taken steps to get back on the right path again.

"This "correction" sounds like another version of Christian redemption and salvation. Maybe you've just changed the wallpaper of your faith-world!"

On this point you are incorrect. The Christian version of redemption and salvation states that some guy named Jesus will take responsibility for all your evil actions as long as you say I believe in Jesus. That means if you kill 10 people, rape 25 women, cheat you neighbors, and abuse your wife and kids, all you need to do is say I believe in Jesus and all is forgiven and all is well. What a farce that is! With me, salvation and redemption lies exclusively with me. I screwed up and I have to take responsibility for setting things straight.

129. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55514 by darwin2 on July 11, 2007 at 11:22 am

Comment #55315 by USA_Limey on July 10, 2007 at 2:45 pm

"Only if it's **your** version of god and heaven waiting on the "other side" you complete loon."

"I hope it's Thor and he squishes you for eternity with his hammer."

"...I really thought you were having us on; but if you are not and really believe this stuff. Wow... that's all I got to say".

"Thanks for visiting the site; I'm going to bring my kids next time they like going to the zoo and looking at the funny monkeys".

Why is it that when you mention the word evolution to some fundamentalist Christians they go berserk and almost have a nervous breakdown? Why is that when you mention the word God to some atheists they go berserk and almost have a nervous breakdown? Can't we just have a mutually respectable dialogue without resorting to name calling?

130. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #55312 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 2:32 pm

Comment #55007 by Lauregon on July 9, 2007 at 4:53 pm

"In this lifetime God gave us the ability to think and to do critical thinking. I see no reason why God would deprive us of this ability in the after life."
-
"What would be the vehicle for this consciousness? What would be its purpose, and why would this consciousness be sufficient for thinking critically about things and in ways it wasn't already well-practiced in thinking about?"

How do we receive information in this lifetime? We receive information by seeing, smelling, tasting, touching and hearing. In the after life we will be pure energy. We will not need physical brains or physical bodies in the afterlife to receive information. Information will be received telepathically and immediately.

131. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #55308 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 2:17 pm

Comment #55006 by Lauregon on July 9, 2007 at 4:47 pm

"How does this subjective, non-anthropomorphic, infinite god you believe in help you understand why these atrocities take place and give you hope that in the end all will be well---and how can there be an "end" given an infinite god?"

It comes down to energy. What we see in this world is an expression of energy on the personal level, the national level and the global level. The end for our eternal souls is heaven and all will be well because God leaves no one behind. Sooner or later we all make it. It just takes some of us longer than others to make it.

By end, I mean the end of suffering. Once we get back on the correct spiritual track our journey in heaven will be infinite.

132. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #55305 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 2:07 pm

Comment #54992 by blaine on July 9, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Comment #54621 by blaine on July 8, 2007 at 7:35 am

"Why would God create a brain for thinking if it were entirely unnecessary for that purpose? Ridiculous. When most Christians see a bird flying, they think, "God in his wisdom gave birds wings so that they could fly." I guess you would say, "God could have made birds fly around without wings but created them because..." I can think of no way to complete the sentence that would make any sense."

"Many liberal Christians, and C. S. Lewis agree with me on this point. These Christians think that God creates physical things for the obvious necessary purpose."

You make excellent points. However the answer to your questions is that God created us in a perfect state of pure energy and as pure energy we could assume any physical form we chose and travel to anywhere in our universe we desired. However we screwed up and misused our energy and now our eternal souls find ourselves in this temporary physical hell called Earth. We did the crime and now we are doing the time. Our purpose here is to confront our misuse of energy and learn how to use energy correctly so that we can ascend back to that perfect state of pure energy that we were created in.

133. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #55303 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 1:54 pm

Comment #54988 by blaine on July 9, 2007 at 3:31 pm

"One step further? That addition is entirely contrary to Sagan's very honest tact of acknowledging ignorance instead of holding strong convictions of positive knowledge where there is no logical support for the alleged knowledge."

I don't mean any disrespect for Carl Sagan. He is my favorite all time person. I read every book he wrote and continually watch the Cosmos series.

134. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #55302 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 1:45 pm

I would like to apologize for the last few comments. These comments belong to the Sean Hannity section and I mistakenly placed them here. Sorry.

135. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55301 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 1:40 pm

Comment #55298 by roach on July 10, 2007 at 1:28 pm

"You're crazy dude"

The $64,000 question here is this. Who is crazy me or you? The answer will only be found when we die. If when we die and if we find ourselves conscious on the other side, then the answer to this question will be it is not me.

136. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55299 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 1:33 pm

Comment #55128 by Theocrapcy on July 10, 2007 at 4:34 am

"If he is what the theists say he is, then this would all be unnecessary - save us all the pain and make us gods RIGHT NOW. Well, what are you wating for?

Didn't think so"

I think I can address your issues by summing up my beliefs below.

My spiritual beliefs can be summed up as follows. I believe humans have eternal souls and our eternal souls are relatively new creations of God. I believe God created our eternal souls in a perfect state of pure energy and as pure energy we could assume any physical form we chose and travel to any place in the universe we desired. We were literally born into paradise and heaven. I believe God has a divine purpose and destiny for creating our eternal souls and that divine purpose is for us to participate in the creation process with God by becoming gods ourselves, imitating God and using our god given powers to create our own universes and beyond. To accomplish this God gave us free will and wants us to use our free will to learn, obey and master the laws of physics. When our souls were created, we were instructed by highly evolved spiritual beings as to what we needed to do to achieve our divine destiny. However, shortly after God created our eternal souls we began to make mistakes by misusing or free will and violating God's laws of physics. Soon our mistakes accumulated to the point that they caused us to descend into the temporary hells of the physical world of which Earth is one of these temporary hells and where our eternal souls presently find themselves encumbered in these temporary human bodies. Our mission on Earth is to address and correct our mistakes and to take steps to learn, obey and master God's laws of physics so that we can ascend back to that perfect state of pure energy that God created us in and where we can fulfill our divine destiny. The law of physics that will enable us to accomplish this is the law of reincarnation and karma. The sooner we learn, obey and master the laws of physics, the quicker we will fulfill our divine destiny in life.

137. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55297 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 1:26 pm

Comment #55032 by PeterK on July 9, 2007 at 6:53 pm

"No he didn't. Read my post #32"

Yes, I read your post #32. I disagree. Behind this universe and all other universes is the One True God. The Supreme Designer and Creator. God is infinite. We are finite. Being finite we can never understand or know that which is infinite.

Enjoy your taco dip. I'm glad it is tasty.

138. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55292 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 1:18 pm

Comment #55013 by Lauregon on July 9, 2007 at 5:27 pm

"You know what "heaven" is like by what means?"

"You've come by this solid information by what means? You sound like someone who really does believe the Bible is the word of God, but how can a non-anthropomorphic god have words to speak?"

I do not believe the Bible is the unerring word of God. It is in fact the result of the erring minds of men.

I have come to my beliefs by asking myself deep questions. First asking if God exists. My observations of the universe helped me conclude that God exists. Second asking if God has a purpose for us. My studies of the spiritual belief of Reincarnation and Karma led me to conclude that God does have a purpose for us and that God is a perfectly just God. For God to be just He would have had to create us in a perfect state of being and He would have had to advise of us of why He created us and the purpose or destiny for our being. And He would have had to advise us what we needed to do to fulfill our destiny. I believe this was done by intelligent beings more advanced than us. As an intelligent being I strive to learn as much as I can about myself and the natural world. This gives me great pleasure in life and I conclude this is the purpose of existence and that heaven would be a continuation of this. But to understand the natural order in this life we need to understand the laws of physics, specifically how to use energy correctly. We are temporarily encumbered in these physical bodies because we have violated God's laws of physics. We have used energy incorrectly. Our goal now is to address this misuse of energy, correct it, and learn how to use energy correctly so that we can ascend back to that perfect state of pure energy and fulfill our divine destiny.

"So you believe "heaven" is all about physics and energy, and about dead humans becoming gods and creating universes? What is the purpose of that?"

Yes and no. Do not confuse dead humans with our eternal souls. Our human bodies are just temporary vehicles that our eternal souls occupy to work out our Karma. The purpose of becoming Gods is to share in the creation process with Him. Ask yourself this. Would you not enjoy having the power to create your own solar system, galaxy and universe? Would you not enjoy being free of physical and emotional suffering? Would you not enjoy being free for worries from wars and crime? Would you not enjoy being free from worrying about harm that may come to your family and friends. If the answer is yes to these questions, then you will definitely enjoy heaven

139. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55290 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 1:16 pm

Comment #55005 by USA_Limey on July 9, 2007 at 4:45 pm

"Sir. You are, are you not, rrremoving, (roll your tounge), our piss from us?"

I am just telling it as I see it.

140. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55289 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 1:14 pm

Comment #55002 by A on July 9, 2007 at 4:27 pm

"This does not make Hannity a village idiot by any stretch of that term, he is simply like so many inerrant supernatural wish thinkers - fixed."

We have inerrant supernatural wish thinkers who are fixed in their belief systems that God exists and consciousness survives after death. We have inerrant atheists who are fixed in their belief systems that God does not exist and consciousness does not survive after death. Someone is right and someone is wrong here. Unfortunately at this moment in time we don't have evidence to support either contention. However when we die and "IF" we find ourselves conscious on the other side, we will have the scientific evidence to support that written in the first sentence above.

141. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #55287 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 1:12 pm

Comment #54956 by Johnny O on July 9, 2007 at 12:43 pm

"Pffftt, who's brainwashed?"

If you are told over and over by preachers and friends that you must accept their religion only if you are to be saved from the eternal fires of hell and you accept this without analyzing the propaganda involved here, you are brainwashed.

If you are told over and over by scientists and friends that it is impossible for God to exist and for consciousness to continue after death and you accept this without analyzing the propaganda involved here, you are brainwashed.

142. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #55272 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 12:11 pm

Comment #55013 by Lauregon on July 9, 2007 at 5:27 pm

"You know what "heaven" is like by what means?"

"You've come by this solid information by what means? You sound like someone who really does believe the Bible is the word of God, but how can a non-anthropomorphic god have words to speak?"

I do not believe the Bible is the unerring word of God. It is in fact the result of the erring minds of men.

I have come to my beliefs by asking myself deep questions. First asking if God exists. My observations of the universe helped me conclude that God exists. Second asking if God has a purpose for us. My studies of the spiritual belief of Reincarnation and Karma led me to conclude that God does have a purpose for us and that God is a perfectly just God. For God to be just He would have had to create us in a perfect state of being and He would have had to advise of us of why He created us and the purpose or destiny for our being. And He would have had to advise us what we needed to do to fulfill our destiny. I believe this was done by intelligent beings more advanced than us. As an intelligent being I strive to learn as much as I can about myself and the natural world. This gives me great pleasure in life and I conclude this is the purpose of existence and that heaven would be a continuation of this. But to understand the natural order in this life we need to understand the laws of physics, specifically how to use energy correctly. We are temporarily encumbered in these physical bodies because we have violated God's laws of physics. We have used energy incorrectly. Our goal now is to address this misuse of energy, correct it, and learn how to use energy correctly so that we can ascend back to that perfect state of pure energy and fulfill our divine destiny.

"So you believe "heaven" is all about physics and energy, and about dead humans becoming gods and creating universes? What is the purpose of that?"

Yes and no. Do not confuse dead humans with our eternal souls. Our human bodies are just temporary vehicles that our eternal souls occupy to work out our Karma. The purpose of becoming gods is to share in the creation process with Him. Ask yourself this. Would you not enjoy having the power to create your own solar system, galaxy and universe? Would you not enjoy being free of physical and emotional suffering? Would you not enjoy being free for worries from wars and crime? Would you not enjoy being free from worrying about harm that may come to your family and friends. If the answer is yes to these questions, then you will definitely enjoy heaven

143. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #55262 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 11:28 am

Comment #55005 by USA_Limey on July 9, 2007 at 4:45 pm

"Sir. You are, are you not, rrremoving, (roll your tounge), our piss from us?"

I am just telling it as I see it.

144. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #55257 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 11:24 am

145. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #55252 by darwin2 on July 10, 2007 at 11:07 am

146. Sean Hannity with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #54946 by darwin2 on July 9, 2007 at 12:02 pm

I can't stand Sean Hannity. He is one of the most bigoted commentators on TV. However I think he did an outstanding job interviewing Hitchens. Hannity brilliantly defended the good points of religion and accurately criticized some of the evils of organized religion. Hannity did an excellent job demonstrating that the energy behind the creation of our universe had to come from Intelligent Design. One up for Sean Hannity.

Hitchens shows a prejudiced brain washed view of what heaven is by comparing heaven to living in North Korea. This is a horrible distortion of what heaven is like. God created our eternal souls to participate in the creation process with Him. Our destiny for our existence and being is to become gods ourselves, imitate God, and use our God given powers to create our own universes and beyond. This is what heaven and paradise is all about. To accomplish this we need to learn, obey, and master God's laws of physics and how to use energy correctly.

147. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #54929 by darwin2 on July 9, 2007 at 10:53 am

Comment #54650 by NormanDoering on July 8, 2007 at 11:08 am

"If you think neuroscience and artificial intelligence fit with a belief that consciousness survives death, then you've been seriously lied to about neuroscience and artificial intelligence."

I disagree. In a previous comment in this section, I stated that our eternal souls are temporarily occupying these human bodies. Advances in neuroscience and artificial intelligence will in the future bring dramatic changes to our physical bodies. If necessary our eternal souls can also occupy these advanced physical bodies.

148. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #54924 by darwin2 on July 9, 2007 at 10:41 am

Comment #54624 by blaine on July 8, 2007 at 7:52 am

"Unless you just choose to believe something which is probably false because it makes you "feel good", please explain why "Infinite God" requires no known cause, but "Infinite universe(s)" require a known cause? (I say "known cause", because it could well be that our universe, or a parent universe, or the multi-verse, may have some unknown cause)."

God is the ultimate cause of this universe and all universes that may exist. I remember Carl Sagan saying that the universe is unknowable and we should just leave it at that. I take it one step further and say that God the Supreme Designer and Creator is infinite and unknowable but we can appreciate God through His magnificent creations.

149. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #54923 by darwin2 on July 9, 2007 at 10:28 am

Comment #54621 by blaine on July 8, 2007 at 7:35 am

"If God promises to make our consciousness persist without the necessary physical support, then the new consciousness will lack these characteristics."

I disagree. In this lifetime God gave us the ability to think and to do critical thinking. I see no reason why God would deprive us of this ability in the after life.

150. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #54920 by darwin2 on July 9, 2007 at 10:20 am

Comment #54617 by steve99 on July 8, 2007 at 7:15 am

"Interesting. What kind of infinity?"

By infinity, I mean God is, always was and always will be.