Comments by Peacebeuponme

101. Do they really think the earth is flat?

Comment #224287 by Peacebeuponme on August 4, 2008 at 12:24 pm

You should go on to the flat earth website. Its really funny and quite interesting. Lots of people just go there to hone debating and critical thinking skills. They bascially play devil's advocate and some are quite skilled at it!

There's aren't many who really believe the earth is flat.

102. Richard Dawkins branded 'secularist bigot' by veteran philosopher

Comment #224138 by Peacebeuponme on August 4, 2008 at 7:20 am

27b-6

Do you really not understand why he is being accused of being a secular bigot?

I understand perfectly well why he is. Its because religion gets special dispensation from criticism. Any statement made by an atheist against religion is automatically deemed to be vitriolic.

103. Richard Dawkins branded 'secularist bigot' by veteran philosopher

Comment #224137 by Peacebeuponme on August 4, 2008 at 7:17 am

counter-custard

That's what you get when you sleep with an accountant.

104. Richard Dawkins branded 'secularist bigot' by veteran philosopher

Comment #224132 by Peacebeuponme on August 4, 2008 at 7:07 am

I expect steve would agree with you there, i think he was being generous by saying 'that is hard to describe'

Yes.

The point Steve was trying to make was that religion/atheism is a false dichotomy. It should be theism/atheism.

105. Richard Dawkins branded 'secularist bigot' by veteran philosopher

Comment #224104 by Peacebeuponme on August 4, 2008 at 5:59 am

Steve

So what is the opposite of religion? That is hard to describe. Religion has the foundation of theism (or at least supernaturalism) to build upon. Atheism has no such foundation, as it is the absence of belief. It is the absence of a scaffold.

Sorry, to be petty again, but I think you meant "Atheism does not provide such a foundation [i.e. as theism does]", otherwise it sounds like you are contradicting your earlier statement.

106. Richard Dawkins branded 'secularist bigot' by veteran philosopher

Comment #224048 by Peacebeuponme on August 4, 2008 at 3:23 am

27b-6

Dawkins has written a book which is about the Bible, Christian theology etc knowing very little about these subjects.

No he didn't. He wrote a book about the scientific hypothesis of God, and religion in general, though focussing largely on christianity. He said very little about Christian theology.

107. Why Islam Is Unfunny for a Cartoonist

Comment #223508 by Peacebeuponme on August 2, 2008 at 3:09 pm

*gloomily* This is the horrible truth: fanaticism works. That kind of violence and terror is effective in getting your own way.

Fanusi is far too single minded with his views for my liking, but I can't help but agree with this. We've seen too many stories posted here lately that back this up.

108. What's wrong with science as religion

Comment #223485 by Peacebeuponme on August 2, 2008 at 2:25 pm

Steve

If someone wants to spend decades changing the general meaning of the term "religion" throughout the world, I am not going to stop them.

Ok, yes. The key word here is decades. Plenty of words nowadays are used in a totally different way, but the change has taken a long time. 'Religion' is a word with a meaning so entrenched that it seems fruitless to try to re-define for the purposes of argument.

109. What's wrong with science as religion

Comment #223449 by Peacebeuponme on August 2, 2008 at 1:20 pm

J Mac

It was down for me to.

This is my favourite place on the internet. The site is well laid out, (almost) unmoderated, and attracts some very interesting and intelligent posters. It does seem a bit brittle though. There's been many a time when I've ahd trouble accessing or refreshing.

110. What's wrong with science as religion

Comment #223448 by Peacebeuponme on August 2, 2008 at 1:09 pm

I am fine about someone trying to redefine religion.

I'm not. 'Religion' as a word has a specific meaning accepted by the majority. Such collective agreements of understanding aid communication. If you are talking about something other than the accepted meaning of religion, why not use another phrase?

111. What's wrong with science as religion

Comment #223446 by Peacebeuponme on August 2, 2008 at 1:03 pm

was this site fucked up for a while?

112. The moment of truth

Comment #223431 by Peacebeuponme on August 2, 2008 at 9:14 am

A more telling sign of the times was the verdict in the case of Lina Joy, a Malay convert from Islam to Christianity who asked a federal court to register the change on her ID card. By two to one the judges rejected her bid, arguing that one "cannot, at one's whims or fancies, renounce or embrace a religion".

Isn't it sad that certain states feel the need to number and tag its citizens?

This woman can call herself christian if she wants to, it is no business of some petty judge. Just because the state, and its records, say one thing, it doesn't make it so.

Marriage as well, as others have said, should be no business of the state. All this tax efficiency nonsense should be removed from the legislature (all co-habitees should have equal rights) and the state should but out of personal ceremonies.

113. Richard Dawkins branded 'secularist bigot' by veteran philosopher

Comment #223403 by Peacebeuponme on August 2, 2008 at 7:53 am

Layla Nasreddin

A "secularist bigot"? Isn't Flew confusing "secularist" with "atheist"? I

Seems like it. Secularism is being separate from religion. Richard very much speaks against religion.

114. Breeding for God

Comment #222270 by Peacebeuponme on July 31, 2008 at 4:23 am

There are Christians who want to have laws based on religious principles (on matters such as same-sex rights and abortion). I guess they should go into the transportation camps too...

If you take Fanusi's point to its logical conclusion, you end up with a single-party system, with the state being self-appointed guardians of the nation's morals.

What does that sound like?

115. Breeding for God

Comment #222261 by Peacebeuponme on July 31, 2008 at 4:01 am

Steve

Surely grounds for divorce there?

Indeed!

One thing that has sickened me about the Christian wedding I've been to is that the Vicar spend a lot of time talking about how God's love is greater than that which the couple have for each other.

Way to undermine them on their big day.

116. Breeding for God

Comment #222237 by Peacebeuponme on July 31, 2008 at 3:06 am

Another classic, this time from forward thinking mid-Wales:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/7530542.stm

117. Breeding for God

Comment #222223 by Peacebeuponme on July 31, 2008 at 2:06 am

Goldy

Wasn't Greece under Islam? Spain? Portugal? the lands now called Israel? A bunch of -stans in teh ex-Soviet union? Xinjiang?

Good point. However, in relation to Xinjiang, China just beat them at their own game. Similar to Tibet they just flooded the area with Han. There sre still Muslim bombers there though.

118. To beat extremism we must dissolve religious groups

Comment #221986 by Peacebeuponme on July 30, 2008 at 12:09 pm

Ishruul

I find your post not only sexist, immature and devout of any thoughful reflection but a gratuitous and deliberate act with the sole purpose of a backstabbing cheat shot.

kkelly may be a lot of things, but I don't think religious is one of them. I think you meant 'devoid'.

119. To beat extremism we must dissolve religious groups

Comment #221888 by Peacebeuponme on July 30, 2008 at 9:13 am

How do you sumbit an article?

Has anybody seen this?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080730/tod-saudi-religion-animal-offbeat-7f81b96.html

120. Council ban on atheist websites

Comment #221122 by Peacebeuponme on July 29, 2008 at 10:58 am

Have to agree with Steve, this really won't last. Another good day for atheism. Religious bigotry has again been highlighted.

121. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220789 by Peacebeuponme on July 29, 2008 at 4:18 am

hungarianelephant

That is plainly wrong. To take the most basic example, if someone monopolises the water supply, that is a direct threat to everyone else's right to life.

That was the point I was trying to make in my own clumsy way.

122. Catholics To Pope: Lift Birth Control Ban

Comment #220772 by Peacebeuponme on July 29, 2008 at 3:24 am

This is an example of nonsensical religious thinking at its finest.

Either God wants us only to have sex for the purposes of conception, or not. I can't see why catholics think their church can just chop and change its rules whenever they feel like it. How can they carry on thinking their behaviour is mandated by God in these circumstances?

123. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220332 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 10:13 am

denior

There are generally two types concepts used for rights "positive" (right to) and "negative" (freedom from). Or as I like to put it "positive", for which you need a gun and "negative" for which you don't. The "positive" freedoms are not in fact freedoms but that name has been adopted widely.

Freedom to live, property rights, freedom of thought, speech etc are negative liberties.

Right to education, food, work, social security etc are positive liberties.

Yes, I get this. But I don't think it's so easy to put my example in either camp. If 'freedom to live' is negative, then I would say so is 'freedom from exploitation'. I can then build a case for some form of law to reign in my powerful water magnate.

124. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220316 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 9:45 am

denior

His book "Anarchy, State, Utopia" makes a solid case for why anarchy would converge to a minimal state and that it can be done without violating individual rights.

Humans were anarchic at inception, and have now moved to various forms of society. I would suggest some of these have been more beneficial overall than your minimum state.

No, the key is only limiting the state to the minimum required to protect individual rights.

You have to decide what these rights are. I like to have the right not to have my water supply controlled by a powerful monopoly, who charge excessive fees which leave me poor.

125. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220297 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 9:29 am

Dr Doctor

Depressingly true, except perhaps, for being nomadic.

Yes. I did feel a bit sad when hearing about the berbers in Tunisia. They wander across the Sahara, minding their own business, basically trying to avoid being tagged and labelled as citizens of either Tunisia, Libya or Algeria.

126. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220285 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 9:21 am

Denior

Why should you do it on your own? Do it in cooperation with other people - you have a shared interest in it. Or are you saying that you can't cooperate without being forced to?

How do I stop freeloaders enjoying the night light given off by my streetlamps that my cooperative have paid for and installed?

127. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220281 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 9:18 am

Dr Doctor

I'm wondering if there really is much difference when you come down to it between Mafia extortion and taxation.

Well, the only alternative is anarchy.

Sorry, wasn't directed at you at all!

No worries. I thought I had got tagged in no man's land for a minute.

128. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220279 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 9:16 am

hungarian

Though having a friend who was summarily executed without trial by officers of the Metropolitan Police, I'm inclined to have my doubts about that.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Yes, it is true that some of our boys in blue have a restless trigger-finger. One guy got shot for carrying a chair leg.

That is a separate argument though.

129. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220267 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 9:08 am

Dr Doctor

On the other hand, there is a level of extortion with menaces about government taxation. How different is it really than a scaled up Mafia operation?

Something to think about over a nice elitist cup of tea.

I think I'm missing something here, what are you saying? Who is being elitist?

130. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220256 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 9:00 am

Oh dear, thats the bottom of the barrel scraped, what do you do for an encore? Start drilling through the wine cellar floor into mud?

Whichever side you are on, you have to chuckle at the insults.

I want more of these, and a duel.

131. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220251 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 8:54 am

hungarianelephant

Semantics. The state will ultimately use whatever level of violence is required to extract taxes from you, though it usually stops at incarceration. If you say she will be shot for using a lethal weapon, you are denying her the "right" to defend her liberty against agents of the state.

But it's pure hyperbole to talk about getting shot for not paying taxes. By that rationale you could escalate any law of the land to that status.

I can just see the TV Licensing Authority's next ad campaign:

"Pay your licence or we'll come over and shoot you."

I think a sense of perspective is in order.

132. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220207 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 8:07 am

denior

If she *really* tries to defend herself, say with a gun then they will shoot her.

Ha! How contrived. Police marksmen would shoot her for using a lethal weapon, not for evading taxes.

133. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220192 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 7:47 am

denior

Taking an innocent person's money at gunpoint is civilized? Make no mistake about it - that is exactly what it is. If you don't pay your taxes armed men will come and lock you up. If you try to defend yourself they will shoot you.

What the fuck are you talking about? They shoot tax evaders in China, but not in Blighty, unless I missed an important recent piece of legislation.

134. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220189 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 7:45 am

I am a very very liberal person.

I would say you are. The world 'liberal' has other political connotations in the US though, doesn't it?

135. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220181 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 7:37 am

But in the context of the article, I thought we were discussing Muslims. Who are by no means the worst offenders. But they are the ones who accept state money then plot the destruction of the state. It wasn't white drunks that bombed the London Underground now was it?

I'm saying I don't want to chuck a worthwhile system in the bin because Muslims (or anyone else) abuses it.

If you stop trying to find work you stop getting checks.

Totally agree, for those who are able to work, and this is, in theory, how our benefits sytem should work. However, to use a real life example, the Steelworks factory where my father used to work is gradually winding down and making redunancies (a great number were made redundant at Christmas a few years ago. Nice.) Some of these people are late forties and have known nothing but steel since they were 16. Their chances of getting other work are pretty small, since the UK does not really have a steel industry any more. This is where benefits come in. In principle it is not for the able-bodied to lounge around getting hand-outs. It is for those who can't work either physically or otherwise.

136. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220167 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 7:16 am

There is story after story about Muslims in England who live a nice life on British taxpayer money, only to murder their daughters, or be caught up in some terror plot.

This is straying into uncomfortable prejudice from you. Plenty of non-Muslims take this piss and live off the state as well. Believe me on that. I grew in a very white and bog-standard Christian part of Wales and saw it all around me.

EDIT:

He is right, that socialist initiatives are really "at gun point", people are coerced to give up their earnings to support people unable and more often, unwilling to earn.

I'm also forced "at gun point" to pay for a fire service to rescue idiots who accidentaly burn their house down. Still rather have it than not though.

137. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220160 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 7:09 am

So when you fund people, lavishly, to not work. There may be attendant issues.

If you are saying that the British benefits system needs an overhaul, but that the underlying philosophy is sound, then I would agree with you.

This all has precisely fuck all to do with immigration though.

138. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220137 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 6:13 am

(excuse me.... checques).

cheques.

You are free to call me a twat.

139. Richard Dawkins on Al Jazeera English

Comment #220124 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 5:58 am

hungarianelephant

I dunno. Unfortunately, like many theists, he seems to have a lot of emotional investment in the whole apparatus.

Obviously my comment was kind of tongue in cheap, but I was also making a serious point: Fides questions and listens and takes on board what the likes of Steve and others say to him (or at least seems to from what I've seen). He started out asking questions that he thought would stump us, but now it seems different.

I normally agree with Irate when he brings out the theist-mallett, but with Fides, I'm not sure. He might end up becoming just 'Ratio', you never know.

140. Richard Dawkins on Al Jazeera English

Comment #220100 by Peacebeuponme on July 28, 2008 at 4:56 am

Fides

Why would he need a cause? The logic doesn't stand up.

It does, perfectly. A god like the Christian God has to interact with spacetime and therefore be part of spacetime. Therefore such a God would also need a cause.

I fancy sticking £20 on Fides becoming an atheist before the year is out. Any takers?

141. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #219882 by Peacebeuponme on July 27, 2008 at 4:46 pm

kkelly

I bet the media spun this with headlines like "Majority of Muslims Do Not Support Murder of Gays."

Is The Times not considered 'Media' then?

142. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #219879 by Peacebeuponme on July 27, 2008 at 4:43 pm

The researchers found that 55% of nonMuslim students thought Islam was incompatible with democracy.

Presumably the other 45% were media studies students.

143. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #219878 by Peacebeuponme on July 27, 2008 at 4:42 pm

Han-nah Stuart

Is Han-nah a muslim name?

144. Sydney brothels say Pope's visit will give business a leg-up

Comment #219870 by Peacebeuponme on July 27, 2008 at 4:31 pm

Goldy

TWP - 13 years is nothing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aribert_Heim

on a lighter note, my all time favourite lammer is this guy:

Albert Spaggiari

Got to respect how he got caught and then escaped so easily.

145. Sydney brothels say Pope's visit will give business a leg-up

Comment #219819 by Peacebeuponme on July 27, 2008 at 3:06 pm

Apathy

Oh i know, but wait until his former boss, Ratko Mladic is finally 'betrayed' and handed over - that's probably when it'll really kick off

I wonder whether he ever will. As I understand it, he is even more revered than Karadzic and there is not a great deal of public sentiment within Serbia for his capture.

As Goldy has said, Karadzic was pretty fast and loose with his identity for a long time (well at least in the context of being on the run from the entire western world goes) and nobody wanted to shop him. His arrest may just make Mladic a bit more careful.

146. Islam subway ads cause stir in New York

Comment #219809 by Peacebeuponme on July 27, 2008 at 2:54 pm

Goldy

Peace - how? It is a patriarchal religion. Emancipation for them is the division of labour, as it were. With men deciding, what do women get?

Depending on what you mean by emancipation. Maybe another term would be better. I was just wondering about whether people starting to talk about feminism and Islam in the same context may grow into something that would ultimately help in freeing up women in the Islamic world. That is, at least in a shorter timeframe than would be acheived by the penetration of rational, non-religious thought.

147. Sydney brothels say Pope's visit will give business a leg-up

Comment #219801 by Peacebeuponme on July 27, 2008 at 2:42 pm

whitepearl

No, I'm afraid I don't know much about either subject. Although, I am never opposed to learning.

Well, Hugo Chavez is a simple question of whether you like Anti-US South American Communists.

Radovan Karadzic, on the other hand, was the leader of a breakaway Serb republic (now called Republika Srpska) in Bosnia, responsible for the mass killing of muslims within Republika Srpska, particularly at Srebrenica in 1995. The whole Yugoslav situation between 1991 and 1999 is a bit more complicated though.

Also he looked a bit like Dan Dennett when he got caught.

148. Islam subway ads cause stir in New York

Comment #219786 by Peacebeuponme on July 27, 2008 at 2:25 pm

Goldy

what do you guys think about the phenomenon of "Islamic feminism," the attempt to establish feminism within an Islamic context and from Islamic sources, and the insistence that Western feminists need to learn how to work with them instead of putting down religion (specifically Islam)?
Layla, personally I think it's silly. Why put Islam into such a prominent position when discussing secular affairs and surely a discussion is about compromises and respect for other viewpoints. Why do western feminists have to respect Islam when Islam does not respect anything else?

Don't you think this sounds like a good medium term approach to help the gradual emancipation of muslim women in the Islamic world?

149. Sydney brothels say Pope's visit will give business a leg-up

Comment #219782 by Peacebeuponme on July 27, 2008 at 2:17 pm

kkelly

176, I thought Flight of the Conchords was mildly amusing

That's about where I sit.

And Goldy: don't worry, its only its only 3 years until the All Blacks chuck another World Cup in the bin. The Kiwis are used to choking.