1451. In the name of the Father

Comment #51801 by Philip1978 on June 25, 2007 at 3:20 am

But how is it that the majority of the world's great philosophers, composers, scholars, artists and poets have been believers, often of a very devout kind?

Right, admit it Professor Dawkins, the devil secretly helped you write your book didn't he! Then you asked him to help Mr Hitchens!

1452. 'Purity' ring case in High Court

Comment #51296 by Philip1978 on June 22, 2007 at 8:18 am

Erm Quetz, they actually do, I remember reading something about some religious pillocks nailing themselves up to express their love of christ at easter time, I heard one guy goes back for more each year!

Some artists do it as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Horsley

1453. 'Purity' ring case in High Court

Comment #51291 by Philip1978 on June 22, 2007 at 8:10 am

konquererz I understand what you are saying but I wore a school uniform all my life and I really don't see the difference between that and wearing a suit to work if the company requires it. I completely agree with you that kids should be able to express themselves and that they do already, the My Chemical Romance and Muse concerts I have been to this year alone have shown me that kids are expressing themselves in all ways possible. The uniform to me was simply something that said I go this school and I was rather proud of it. A bit like when I represented my school at sports, I wore something that said I play for this school. I could always take the uniform off to go out after school and wear what I wanted. It was simply just in school, like work, I had to wear something they asked me too. Saying that it does cost a bloody fortune!!

I agree with the idea this is simply a stupid publicity stunt for her dad's religion, the ring is superfluous to the whole thing and its a waste of tax payers money when it could be put to much better use improving schools so they can teach in proper classrooms and have access to the right equipment so the kids can learn something, simple as that

1454. An Inquisition in science's name

Comment #51261 by Philip1978 on June 22, 2007 at 6:48 am

George Carlin, good man and very funny,I laughed heavily about the X-rated version of Little Red Riding hood, brilliant, cheers Billy!

1455. An Inquisition in science's name

Comment #51219 by Philip1978 on June 22, 2007 at 1:48 am

"atheism is the only religion supported by science"

Bizzaro,I am sorry to be a bit of a pedant but please be a good chap and don't refer to Atheism as a religion, its not.
Cheers,
Philip

1456. Rushdie knighted in honours list

Comment #51037 by Philip1978 on June 21, 2007 at 8:16 am

Sargeist you have to understand this British attitude works when our football/cricket/rugby/tennis team gets the most horrible drubbing. We simply shrug our shoulders, say "bravo!" to the opposing team for playing well, slag off our team for being rubbish for a couple of weeks and then get right back behind them the next game, confident in their abilities. Such optimism is commendable! I call it the Tim Henman syndrome, every bloody year people still yell for the poor boy but every year he gets his arse kicked despite beating all the people he loses against abroad!! hehehe

Tally bally ho! More Tea I say!

1457. Bush Vetoes Measure on Stem Cell Research

Comment #51029 by Philip1978 on June 21, 2007 at 7:45 am

Michael P, don't be ashamed to be American, just be deeply ashamed of Bush and his pathetic religious beliefs

1458. Peanut Butter, The Atheist's Nightmare!

Comment #51018 by Philip1978 on June 21, 2007 at 5:39 am

TacklingDummy I would be upset if you didnt post your satire, please go ahead!

1459. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #50860 by Philip1978 on June 20, 2007 at 8:26 am

I really enjoyed that, good video.

Professor Dawkins well done on your book, it has raised my conciousness and it, among the other books I read from reading yours, has encouraged me to look at things differently. I have far to go still but I am learning even at 28 hehe! This site is also a great knowledge raiser, I have communicated with some amazing people and they have taught me many wonderful things. Thanks to you all!

J, your comments on David's site are brilliant, I am enjoying following it a lot! What wine are you drinking, I could do with some!!
cheers,

Philip Priestley

1460. Atheists: stand up and be counted

Comment #50823 by Philip1978 on June 20, 2007 at 5:09 am

Fides,
Sorry about leading the thread off track completely, I know you were talking about something else and my intention was to let others respond to you

Concerning the guidelines actually I agree with most of it, no road rage, drink driving, respecting speed limits, driving under the influence etc. I am glad he is speaking out about about all that

The only things I have problems with is:

Performing the sign of the cross before you leave, what exactly does that do? Moving your hand in front of you and saying a few Latin words is not the best way of improving your driving or lessening the chances of you having an accident. Is god going to get upset with you for not doing it?

Using the car as a place of sin? This rule is highly ambiguous because technically which sin are we really talking about here? Driving to work on a Sunday? Ok, I will take a wild guess and say its sex he is talking about, (puerile jokes aside- like doing it when its in motion and watching out for the gear stick if in the passenger seat, sorry couldn't resist!)Why is sex such a sin in the eyes of the lord? I have always had issues with the Catholic doctrines on contraception and consensual sex between two adults. Having sex in a car is illegal in public areas, fine by me. (just don't get caught!) This attitude about demonising sex really doesn't wash with me, from what is a beautiful and amazing experience between two consenting adults is then deemed wrong and bad. So much so that abstinence as advocated instead of being careful. The AIDS epidemic could be slowed dramatically through condom use, but no the Pope is against contraception so millions die in Africa by being told its sinful and in some cases telling folk that condoms actually pass on AIDS! People I know of have committed suicide because of their sexuality or that they have had sex and can't deal with the guilt heaped upon them by the church and their families. Sex is not a sin, miss-educating people about it is far worse, who cares if its in the car!

If you want to continue with your original thread questions first I would be happy to discuss this at another time if you want to, thanks for your time anyway,
Philip

1461. Atheists: stand up and be counted

Comment #50809 by Philip1978 on June 20, 2007 at 3:40 am

fides_et_ratio

Sorry, I don't recall what the Pope had to say about road signs hehehehehe!

1462. Atheists: stand up and be counted

Comment #50796 by Philip1978 on June 20, 2007 at 2:35 am

Speaking of Catholicism, the pope has just issued a 36 page guideline for the "Pastoral care of the Road!"
So, all you Catholics out there, don't you dare use your car as "an object of personal glorification" and also perform the sign of the cross before you head out or god will be very angry!

Thinking about it, only now it has been revealed that you should genuflect before you head out, have you all been sinning up until now? Isn't god sneaky, that wasn't in the bible!!

1463. Atheists: stand up and be counted

Comment #50788 by Philip1978 on June 20, 2007 at 1:46 am

fides_et_ratio

You said that you would pray you had humility, why not simply have humility if you think you need it?

Sorry, nit picking today but wanted to get involved!:)

1464. Debate between Sam Harris and Chris Hedges

Comment #50775 by Philip1978 on June 20, 2007 at 12:42 am

TedWak
Interesting post as ever, just wanted to add my own slant on why some muslims turn to terrorism and martyrdom
A good friend of mine told me that here in England you have these men who have grown up in a strict muslim family where they are forbidden to drink, have sex, do drugs etc They suddenly become very aware whilst living amongst the infidels that they are missing out on it all. So they rebel for a while, start getting up to all sorts, they chase women, drink and some get into the drugs scene. Soon it all becomes too much, having alienated themselves from their family and suffering the lifestyle they have been leading it all seems to cave in. Psychologically messed up and lost they are easy targets for extremist groups who convince them of the wonderful world of martyrdom and the paradise that awaits them in the afterlife.

That's just one example but I would say the indoctrination to become a martyr or terrorist is because of the psychological mess they get themselves into as caused by their religion. As Sam has mentioned in the past, their religion is supposed to be the right way to live because the Koran is the inerrant word of their god. Yet they see the western countries living in opulence in comparison to the 14th Century lifestyle they have been living in. Allah couldn't possibly be wrong so the infidels are sinning therefore they are a threat to the muslim way of life and Allah rewards those who fight for His cause.

In the words of Monty Python in Life of Brian "Don't worry, 'e's e's mmmmmmmad sir!"

1465. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #50133 by Philip1978 on June 15, 2007 at 7:49 am

newatheist a pint for the road sir?

Afterlife? I was thinking more of an apres vie!

1466. The Benny Hinn Report

Comment #50117 by Philip1978 on June 15, 2007 at 6:03 am

I wonder if he locks up all the swings and stops people driving before his shows start...

1467. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #50101 by Philip1978 on June 15, 2007 at 4:55 am

Downunder, very interesting and informative post, I enjoyed reading that a lot, thank you

Dianelos, I have pondered and pondered upon what you have said and I have come up with a conclusion, I nicked it off Douglas Adams again I am afraid but it makes my argument sound more fancy!! Its basically when he asks why people can't look at the beautiful garden without wanting the fairies to be there as well. Plus that Tv man story I put in my last post makes sense here as well

I understand more about what you think God is to you but I can't grasp why you would need a God to explain things that happen regardless of the importance of his/hers/its involvement. Take the TV man, everything he needs to know about the working of the TV has been shown to him and explained to him. His first assumption that tiny men are zooming around in the background is made irrelevant when the reality is explained to him. So after he is told everything he clings on to the thought that there must be SOME little men there as if the little men are still an essential part of the working order of the TV. Why does he need the little men?

The garden or even the universe is a mind bogglingly beautiful place, it really is. Not only is the stuff we do know about is beautiful but the stuff we do not know about and still have yet to discover is also as amazing. So there you have it and then you want to add something extra on it, as if it is not enough God has to be at the start of it all. I am not saying you don't have an appreciation of all that is beautiful etc but why and how does God fit into all this? Everything is still there if you remove him/her/it from the equation. The unexplainable is simply waiting to be explained, a God simply can't be the answer without being able to explain how he/she/it got there to do it.

The worldview that you are looking at can be seen with or without a God, God really doesn't need to be there to fulfil anything, its all there already

I hope that makes sense, I appreciate you have a lot to answer, please answer them first because I am sure I am repeating half of what the others are saying anyway but if you still feel like it I would be glad to offer other quotes from people who are far better explaining things than I hehe!

Cheers, Philip

1468. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #49941 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 7:34 am

Cheers tons Billy, most useful, I have come to the conclusion that Luke and Matthew must have had a heated discussion in a bar after drinking too much Egyptian imported beer(the 2500 year old recipe adds that extra kick!) and huffed off to write their own versions!

I used the word "challenge" when referring to young Wee Flea as a sort of euphemism, he used very much the same happy tone with me as he did with you in that link. There is no wonder David ran off crying, we seem to have kicked his arse so hard the bruising has formed itself into a rather amusing shade of tartan!

Right, I am off to investigate even more, just heard some scurrilous rumour there were 6 Jesus shaped people hanging around in Jerusalem around that period each having their own unique yet rather sticky end with the Rwomans (no, Romans! STWIKE HIM!)

Many thanks again, Philip

1469. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #49919 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 5:13 am

I could pretend to believe in god if you like!!

I only used the "w" word (apologies for my foul language!) because I see one of you has already had to resort to cold turkey from over posting!!

I have started to read a book by Kenneth Humprheys, Jesus Never Existed and it has some amazing facts in it but I don't simply want take his word for it. I just wanted to check my Herods as there might have been more than one, he did after all have about 10 wives and about 15 sons in his lifetime! (Lazy bugger!)
I was also challenged by David Robertson on another thread about the Roman Emperor Constantine and I have decided to go on a knowledge quest to find out the goings on in the Synod or Council of Nicaea in 325AD. Having done medieval history from about 1066 onwards I find all this stuff so very interesting.

Having said all this, I have just looked up the bible reference and then I was asked which bible translation I wanted:
* 1550 Stephanus New Testament (BibleGateway)
* 1881 Westcott-Hort New Testament (BibleGateway)
* 1894 Scrivener New Testament (BibleGateway)
* 1934 Vietnamese Bible (BibleGateway)
* 21st Century King James Version (BibleGateway)
* Albanian Bible (BibleGateway)
* American Standard Version (BibleGateway)
* Amplified Bible (BibleGateway)
* Ang Salita ng Diyos (BibleGateway)
* Arabic Life Application Bible (BibleGateway)
* BibleBrowser.com
* BibleCommenter.com (BibleBrowser)
* Biblia Sacra Vulgata (BibleGateway)
* Biblia Tysiaclecia (BibleGateway)
* Biblia en Lenguaje Sencillo (BibleGateway)
* Bulgarian Bible (BibleGateway)
* Castillian (BibleGateway)
* Chinese Union Version (BibleGateway)
* Conferenza Episcopale Italiana (BibleGateway)
* Contemporary English Version (BibleGateway)
* Croatian Bible (BibleGateway)
* Darby Translation (BibleGateway)
* Det Norsk Bibelselskap 1930 (BibleGateway)
* Dette er Biblen p�.¥ dansk (BibleGateway)
* Dios Habla Hoy (BibleGateway)
* Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (BibleGateway)
* English Standard Version (BibleGateway)
* Greek audio of New Testament (greeklatinaudio.com)
* Haitian Creole Version (BibleGateway)
* Het Boek (BibleGateway)
* Hiligaynon Bible (BibleGateway)
* Holman Christian Standard Bible (BibleGateway)
* Hungarian K�.¡roli (BibleGateway)
* Icelandic Bible (BibleGateway)
* Il Nuovo Testamento in Lingua Moderna (BibleGateway)
* João Ferreira de Almeida Atualizada (BibleGateway)
* King James Version (BibleGateway)
* Korean Bible (BibleGateway)
* La Bible du Semeur (BibleGateway)
* La Biblia de las Américas (BibleGateway)
* La Nuaova Diodati (BibleGateway)
* Latin audio of New Testament (greeklatinaudio.com)
* Levande Bibeln (BibleGateway)
* Louis Segond (BibleGateway)
* Luther Bibel 1545 (BibleGateway)
* Maori Bible (BibleGateway)
* New American Bible (USCCB)
* New American Standard Bible (BibleGateway)
* New International Reader's Version (BibleGateway)
* New International Version (BibleGateway)
* New International Version - UK (BibleGateway)
* New King James Version (BibleGateway)
* New Life Version (BibleGateway)
* New Living Translation (BibleGateway)
* New Revised Standard Version (Oremus)
* Nova Versão Internacional (BibleGateway)
* Nueva Versión Internacional (BibleGateway)
* Nádej pre kazdého (BibleGateway)
* O Livro (BibleGateway)
* Online Parallel Bible (bible.cc)
* Reimer 2001 (BibleGateway)
* Reina-Valera 1960 (BibleGateway)
* Reina-Valera 1995 (BibleGateway)
* Reina-Valera Antigua (BibleGateway)
* Romanian (BibleGateway)
* Romanian Cornilescu Version (BibleGateway)
* Russian Synodal Version (BibleGateway)
* ScriptureText.com multilingual (BibleBrowser)
* Slovo Zhizny (BibleGateway)
* Slovo na cestu (BibleGateway)
* Svenska 1917 (BibleGateway)
* Swahili New Testament (BibleGateway)
* The Message (BibleGateway)
* Worldwide English (New Testament) (BibleGateway)
* Wycliffe New Testament (BibleGateway)
* Young's Literal Translation (BibleGateway)
Bloody hell, there are a couple or so aren't there!

Right, K.B.O (Winston Churchill phrase Keep Buggering On!) catch you later,

Philip

1470. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49893 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 3:18 am

Quetzalcoatl I know what you mean, I keep getting told by religious people god moves in mysterious ways, if you need more mysterious than that well, good luck to you hehehehehe!
As for my back pain, how dare they....oh no wait, on the Blasphemy Challenge post I told the Holy Ghost to go and do something most obscene with a prize winning leek... :)

1471. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #49891 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 3:11 am

Ah, is that something very much closer to being more like the Einstein type of god then?

Cor an actual answer! Forgive my surprise, its just I have asked others on this site many a time and then only answer I got was something closely akin to "Its Him, don't argue!" (David, Devolved and Bizzaro please take note here!), please ignore the rest of the wiffle, I forgot you were so busy but I thank you for a well put answer, I will give this one some thought before I post again. I still have problems with the whole god idea but want to think about my next answer, cheers tons,

Philip

1472. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49888 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 2:53 am

Billy, yes it has happened to me a couple of times, I am beginning to wonder if Devolved's or David's god is at work here! I mean, David's god gave me back pain last week!

1473. The Benny Hinn Report

Comment #49877 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 2:09 am

room101

You have a good point there but I would suggest you never get tired of these people, like Arthur Dent in the Hitchhikers Guide, I am willing to see who will rust first!!

1474. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #49871 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 1:41 am

Dianelos Georgoudis
As if you haven't got enough to read you poor chap, I want you to read this when you can, it is a quote from my favourite author, Douglas Adams. I am not implying I think you an idiot, far from it, you have posted some amazing arguments, but I think it kind of sums up the difficulties I am having expressing to you what I posted earlier. I hope you enjoy it, take care, Philip

A man didn't understand how televisions
work, and was convinced that there must be lots of little men inside the box manipulating images at high speed. An engineer explained to him about
high frequency modulations of the electromagnetic spectrum, about transmitters and receivers, about amplifiers and cathode ray tubes, about scan lines moving across and down a phosphorescent screen. The man listened to the engineer with careful attention, nodding his head at every step of the argument. At the end he pronounced himself satisfied. He really did now understand how televisions work. "But I expect there are just a few little men in there, aren't there?"

1475. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #49862 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 12:43 am

Chaps, I have a few quick questions, I know you guys are still working hard on this so I will be kind!

King Herod, was he the king who said all first born should be slaughtered in order that his reign be longer and no other claimants could have it and thus the reason Joseph and Mary hot footed it elsewhere to have baby J? I was reading somewhere he died in 4 BC and baby J was born around 3 or 4 AD, (depending on who you ask),would the law have still been in place? My bible knowledge is rubbish but I am sure Herod was mentioned in the same time that baby J was born, am I right?

Keep up the good work, am enjoying this thread immensely,
Philip

1476. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #49719 by Philip1978 on June 13, 2007 at 6:24 am

Dianelos Georgoudis
I still don't understand, why the anthropomorphism?

Its all very well saying things happen but I cannot for the life of me understand how your god comes into all this.

Since your god cannot be detected by anything except "faith" (belief without evidence) doesn't that even prod you into thinking something is wrong here. I don't think you are a total looney, well possibly a bit of a one but no more so than I!! Is it possible that perhaps humans invented their gods rather than the other way around. That is the only way I can see how your god can do the things he does, you imagine him/her/it to be able to (I use the words "your god" because I think David Robertsons, Devolved and Bizzaro Dawkin's descriptions of their god will be different from yours)

Still, I also have to ask again, are you sure its not Thor providing your thought processes? It might as well be Elvis, its equally weird and I cannot understand why it has to be your god.

I am totally confused, I think I need more tea!
Cheers,
Philip

1477. Baptists Warned About Islam, Atheism

Comment #49706 by Philip1978 on June 13, 2007 at 3:49 am

I am still waiting for David to realise the importance of knowing where his towel is rather than his god, towels are so much more useful!

1478. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #49479 by Philip1978 on June 12, 2007 at 4:23 am

Billy & Quetz
I am going make a wild guess here and say that the spectacular post J put on his website (the link is in the Winston Debate thread) might have almost changed a few things, I am only making galactic sized assumptions here, obviously I would need David to comment about it of course before I go any further

Great Interview, enjoyed that tons

1479. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #49464 by Philip1978 on June 12, 2007 at 3:05 am

Logicel, I definitely agree with you there, oh Great One whose husband owns The Trousers!

RAamen to that BMMcArdle!

1480. The Benny Hinn Report

Comment #49441 by Philip1978 on June 12, 2007 at 1:31 am

I would have put the buckets to better use, I would have vomited in them!

1481. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #49437 by Philip1978 on June 12, 2007 at 1:11 am

Quetzalcoatl
I have indeed seen Mr Brown at work, I think one of the weirdest was when he got a room full of atheists and turned them into believers in about an hour!

1482. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #49432 by Philip1978 on June 12, 2007 at 12:45 am

Dianelos Georgoudis

Very interesting post, I enjoyed reading that

One thing I would like to ask is which god are you talking about? In all seriousness is it Allah, The Protestant God, The Catholic God, David Robertson's God, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, Odin? All of these gods could be justifiable in explaining the way your brain produces conciousness.

I simply can't see why a god would have to fit into all this. Neurology and science may indeed come up with the answer one day but then anthropomorphising that explanation into a god makes no sense to me.

I don't know if you have heard of him but there is a chap called Derran Brown, look him up on utube, he can plant ideas into people's heads and make them believe and think things they would never have contemplated before. Now is Mr Brown a god? No, he is a human being, a very clever psychologist who is able to read people and mess with their minds a little simply by the power of suggestion. I would not call what he does to the brains of his audience anything to do with your god or the other plethora of others people have created, the explanation is far more simple than that.

One thing I would suggest is go to the Andrew Sullivan/Sam Harris debate on this site you can find it on the home page in the grey area for a good explanation by Sam on how the mind can perceive things and how the brain translates information that it receives.

Right, my mind has just told me I would very much like a cup of tea and I don't think I will argue with it! Catch you later,

Philip

1483. Religion and Child Abuse

Comment #49238 by Philip1978 on June 11, 2007 at 5:50 am

TedWak
Thanks a lot for your help, I appreciate it

Bizarro, I was on the wrong track there, made a bit of a fool of myself so apologies there, I will learn to argue properly one day by actually arguing about the right subject! :)

But, whilst on the subject, I read about 1st communion and it basically is along the same lines as to what I was wiffling about, I still see it as basically telling a kid who cannot question back about a life changing event, it is very similar to my Communist argument in my last post and would still like to hear your views about it, cheers,

Philip

1484. Dobson and John MacArthur fantasize about the downfall of America

Comment #49236 by Philip1978 on June 11, 2007 at 5:32 am

Jason33,
Hehehe don't worry mate, I remember a while back on one post I had the most hideous go at someone who I thought was being utterly horrible, I was convinced I was right and I read it again and again, only to be told by Professor Dawkins that I had got it wrong, I still blush even now!

I really do think the religious are getting more and more depressed as time wonders on, all this "God is angry with us" is not doing them any favours!

1485. House Votes to Expand Stem Cell Research

Comment #48513 by Philip1978 on June 8, 2007 at 8:14 am

Can they also pass a law so that if President Bush is so upset about doing damage to 150 cells of almost potential human being he is not allowed to scratch his nose or swat flies (thanks Sam Harris!)

What a hypocrite, he has no qualms about sending men and women off to die and kill others yet when it comes to live saving research that involves potential humans he is dead against it. The mind doth forever boggle!

1486. In Saudi Arabia, a view from behind the veil

Comment #48510 by Philip1978 on June 8, 2007 at 8:07 am

Yeesh,
Ok, for all you guys who dont know about Marks & Spencers, it is a sort of clothes store/supermarket. They make male y fronts which have a bit of a sad status over here in England, highly unsexy! I can see them making laws against showing them but honestly, showing your pants off if they are not smelly/filthy etc why not? Is this another form of uncontrollable lust in Virginia?

Hehehe, I remember reading a Stephen Fry book, I think its called The Liar, I recommend it to all. A character gets caught by the school matron nude sunbathing, she tells him to cover up so he promptly thanks her and puts on his sun glasses! hehehe!

1487. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #48494 by Philip1978 on June 8, 2007 at 7:15 am

"Man is certainly stark raving mad. He cannot make a worm, yet he makes gods by the dozens."
Michel de Montaigne

I can't help but almost agree with this chap, I say almost, if Billy, may his White Lab Coat bring Justice to us all, can create Gay Fruit Flies I am sure worms are well within his grasp!

1488. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #48468 by Philip1978 on June 8, 2007 at 4:46 am

Cheers David,

I didn't know it was referred to as the Synod, everything I have read so far has been calling it the Council of Nicaea, the one I was referring to in my last post was the 1st ever one.

For now I want to stick with this one issue, I want to ask more later if you are interested but here goes. I think my only question about what went on was that do you think it was god inspiring these men to debate this issue or do you think it was more of a chance for Constantine to see if he could reconcile the differences affecting the Romans at that time?

Arius and his rival were heavily influencing the situation in Europe when they were arguing over what or who Jesus actually was. I agree with what you said about keeping the knowledge of the bible going but I simply don't see it as your god having much influence on the outcome and they are talking about Him and His son here. The outcome of this 1st meeting simply shows Constantine saying Jesus is "of one substance" after being heavily influenced by Ossius the Spaniard. Then as Ossius falling out of favour he reneges on this and invites Arius back and being buried an Arian. I feel it sends out a really confusing message about Jesus and it helps Constantine and the Roman empire keep its tenuous grip over the countries previously conquered.

Over all of it I rather feel this shows that men have always controlled what religions mean and how they work, I really don't see god having any influence over any of it, even over the writing of the bible. I think this is the point I have been attempting to make but haven't made a good enough explanation of it. Here are men voting on Jesus's divinity and it confuses me why it has to be so complex or do you think that is the problem with free will and that man has simply garbled things up a little?

One thing I would like to also ask is that could you recommended any books I could get hold of on this period of history? Or simply expand on your last post, offer your view on the event itself, either would be fun and interesting.

See, I am in a good mood today, I wont froth at you today! :)

1489. The planet hunters

Comment #48433 by Philip1978 on June 8, 2007 at 12:29 am

James, I think you are beginning to understand me a little better, my arguments are mostly completely daft and I would be worried if they were not!!hehehe

I keep reading stuff in strange books and being told odd things like Australia exports, or has exported in the past, camels and sand to Saudi Arabia! I like to test them out and see where it gets me, if I can't learn anything I don't see myself getting anything out of all this. I know I have a long way to go but I don't mind being wrong about things only to have it explained properly later.

Hmm, the star business, (more wiffle, watch out!) didn't the Egyptians have a good grasp of astronomy about 2500 years earlier? Ok, we are talking about shepherds here as well but the Wise men might have been reasonably wise enough to know basic astronomy, but as you say the word for star alone is a bit of a bugger there! Plus their complete lack of Global Positioning equipment, hulking great big building sized telescopes and googlemaps in those days tells me they simply went with what they had!!

I am already reading Cristopher Hitchens and acquired a book by Kenneth Humprheys about the non-existence of Jesus, so I might go look at them first before I badger your good self with more!

Take care,

Philip

1490. Religion and Child Abuse

Comment #48431 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 11:51 pm

TedWak

Hmm have I got that confused with the sinning bit, where now she is 7 years old she is a sinner in the eyes of god? If so I think that would be even worse than simply being told "Right, that's it, you're a Catholic"! But I think if I got the above wrong I should apologise to Bizzaro et all and go and do some proper research instead of frothing about something I obviously need to know more about.

Thing is, it was about 2 or 3 weeks ago and I was chatting to the mother, sister and the other girl who worked with the company for a while about it, I am absolutely certain they all said it was her confirmation as a Catholic. Odd, I will investigate and see if I got it wrong.

1491. My Road to Atheism, What Took Me So Long and The Aftermath

Comment #48260 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 8:01 am

James,
I really don't know if this helps, but my uncle is as much of an atheist as I am, my aunt who he has been married to for 40 years is a Catholic to the heart. I know next to nothing about how to deal with this from my own experiences and I don't know you asides from your posts but the impression I get is that you love your wife and kids and I think that is the most important thing to hold on to. I think what these guys are telling you is right, be careful and calm about it and keep up the good work you are doing. I really hope it all works for you, there is no reason why it can't work, take care
Philip

1492. Here Comes the Fourth Musketeer.

Comment #48247 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 7:36 am

I went to Waterstones book shop, do you have that chain up there in the Glens?

1493. Don't Know Much Biology

Comment #48245 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 7:32 am

pewkatchoo I am a simple English lad, you can tell by the vacant look in my picture, some things simply fly past and I don't see them!
Am having trouble accessing your site too, firefox is misbehaving today!

1494. Here Comes the Fourth Musketeer.

Comment #48243 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 7:25 am

Just picked the book up yesterday, very very interesting but sometimes he does wonder off on tangents, highly interesting tangents but it is a bit muddled. Enjoying it tons though, bravo Mr Hitchens

1495. Don't Know Much Biology

Comment #48230 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 6:33 am

pewkatchoo, sorry, I don't like to guess countries, I cant hear your accent when you type hehehehe!

I don't want to shout about politics too much, I know what I am up against here and I don't mean to offend in anyway...except of course if its religion, then you lot are all fair game hehehe!!

1496. Don't Know Much Biology

Comment #48212 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 4:01 am

pewkatchoo
Think about what horrors my fellow country folk and I will have to face when the next election happens in England. The party I want to vote for has recently been toying with the creationism in schools stuff and the other party's are either a bunch of bLiars or simply awful. I want to get this guy over to explain a few things, Americans get to see him first, there need is slightly more pressing at the moment!!

1497. Religion and Child Abuse

Comment #48169 by Philip1978 on June 6, 2007 at 11:52 pm

Bizzaro, I do actually happen to know this woman and her family and I can firmly say, without exaggeration, that if this little girl moves faiths or goes the atheist route she will be roasted. Don't get me wrong, I am sure you had a great childhood and everything but I can't stomach it when families can be this strict

I think the thing that keeps me questioning this behaviour is how do you know this 7 year old girl wants to be a Catholic? I still don't understand how anyone can justify it that they decided when she was a baby to be baptised and then at 7 told she was definitely a Catholic, why not wait until later and go through all of this? Why not when she has reached a mature age can she not decide for herself that she wants to be dunked in water and have strange Latin words spoken to her? Why can't she decide for herself if she wants to go further and go to a priest for confirmation? This is all done before she has an opinion on anything and that's what I find wrong. This is a life changing decision, it affects the outcome of how people live and I am not comfortable with simply telling a kid they are Catholics when they don't know what one is.

Imagine your parents when you were a baby or at 7 getting a certificate or something confirming you as a Marxist or Communist and that's the politics you will adhere to the rest of your life. You would be far too young but there you are immersed in a world that you don't understand and people are telling you all sorts of things about a guy called Lenin etc. Wouldn't you think that just a little strange? I bet you have your own ideas about politics now don't you? You grew up and learned about the different choices possibly in school, ok from your parents as well probably, but my point is you grew up to know what you wanted to do in that area.
Why can't you do that with religion?

1498. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #47992 by Philip1978 on June 6, 2007 at 8:07 am

You find it disturbing? I don't actually remember doing it! My mind is obviously so psychologically damaged and scarred it doesn't want to, it or the booze did me a great favour! I just woke up in the morning and she was there saying how great I was that night! Hows that for disturbing!

Thinking about it I have said some rather disparaging things about Satan, Limbo and David's god, I hoping they keep me immortal just cos they can't decide what to do with me!

1499. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #47984 by Philip1978 on June 6, 2007 at 7:49 am

Quetzalcoatl , I once got drunk and accidentally slept with the female equivalent of Jar Jar Binks, that's sure enough to keep me well and truly gnashing my teeth for eternity. God will take one look at me and simply say "Time share is simply not an option for this idiot, Satan, here have this"!!

1500. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #47972 by Philip1978 on June 6, 2007 at 7:04 am

I have a theory on that, David's god pre-determined everything, unfortunately like most DIY there was a bit left over he didn't know what to do with it so he invented sin. I am now reckoning heaven can only hold so many souls and he was worried the place could well fill up before the Rapture. So he designs some of us gay, some of us to not believe in him etc to tip the balance!