1601. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185367 by Goldy on May 27, 2008 at 4:11 pm

Mr Goldy from your post last night you said that you work with english people who refuse to integrate.?

Ummm, not having Kiwi friends, keeping inside an English "community" - you know - just not opening the net a bit to let the local flavour in. Like the Germans here who shop at the German butcher, use the German baker, use English only at work as they stay within the German community. That sort of thing.
This...

you speak the same language, your health system is identical, you have a democracy ,you drive on the same side of the road,your music is identical, you eat the same foods, etc etc etc. i do not wish to be disrespectful but what is the non integration you speak of can please give some examples

is also applicable to Muslims and indeed any ethnicity. In Bradford, at least, other than wanting their food halal, the Muslims have the same health care, drive on the same side of the road, have democracy, listen to the same music, eat the same food, speak the same language....
Regarding your Comment #185351 - surely you shuld have included a "1...2...3" in that too?
;-P
Off for a spell - need to get a Triumph TR6 through it's 6 monthly roadworthiness inspection. Just swapped the diff out for a Nissan R200 diff and tidied up the interior. Wish me luck!
Edit - Oh, and please, no formality! No need for Mr Goldy - Mike will do fine :-) Goldy is just a nickname that has followed me since my schooldays :-)

1602. What is science for?

Comment #185358 by Goldy on May 27, 2008 at 3:33 pm

Goldy, I don't know how old you are

40 - but fairly well read :-)

1603. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185356 by Goldy on May 27, 2008 at 3:26 pm

MaxD

Did you spell out the Asian Invasion angle in the post I from which I quoted you? If you did, I missed it. Anyway, I have suggested that Islam is unique, in this historical moment, from Christianity, and Judaism. And I thought throwing an obvious ethnic group in to your comparisson was dishonest because it misses the distinction that Islam is an ideology not a race. By definition you cannot be a white chinese person. Chinese/asian is racial definition.

I see your point. But then Chinese have been citizens of NZ and Australia (and indeed the other "colonies") for pretty much the same length of time as the Europeans. There are 4the generation Chinese here in NZ - are they less Kiwi thatn me becasue of their colour? And remember, I am the immigrant here - but more accepted, I feel. That's the angle I was trying to put.
Even Islam is pretty long standing in Australia. Ever heard of teh Ghan? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ghan) Look up the origin of that name.
And to all those who say not liking Islam is not racism, duuuuh! We know. But it is guilt by association. Surely that is not too difficult to see? Most Muslims here are either Arabs (which is a bit sticky for Iraqi Christian refugees), Malaysians or Indonesians or Somali, with a large peppering of Indians (from Fiji). White Muslims exist, but, well, who ever sees one? After 11/9, I read of Sikhs being attacked for teh sins of Muslims. But Sikhs aren't Muslims, are they, so why attack them? I guess the distinction is not as clear to some...

Christopher Davis

I wasn't trying to throw the Afghan card on you, sorry that it seemed that way.

My point was more about the schools. Actually, it's not just the Taliban burning down schools here. It's more complicated.

There is a fear of western indoctrination and a reluctance to educate girls here in the Pashtun areas. Our efforts are also thwarted by apathy and good old fashioned greed.

And these are hardly the preserve of Islam, are they? I am sure you'll find the very same happening in rural China. A product of a couple of decades of war and rampant corruption ?quot; not religion.

Fanusi, it is hard to accept everything you say about Islam. All religions are like this, some just happen to be followed by more backward people. I am sure if Christianity had stayed the Middle Eastern religion of choice, or pre-Islamic religion, the same would be happening now. And…

This would come as a surprise to, say, the Greek Orthodox Church, or the Nestorian Christians, or the Coptic Christians. Fact is, Christians rejecting the authority of Rome date back to the dawn of Christianity. Not one single sect of Islam that rejects the idea of the Qur'an as the uncreated word of God has survived. Not one.

This doesn't make sense. There are different sects of Christianity, which date back to the dawn of this sect. Yet all Muslim sects accept the Koran. Eh? All Christian sects accept the Bible. And if there wasn't a schism at the dawn of Islam, where would the Shia have turned up from? You got 2 fairly unrelated points here…

OverUsedChewToy

As much as I can see where you're coming from, since culture and ethnicity is something any human can adopt, change, grow up within, etc., I don't think the term "whitey" would actually encompass that much of a meaningful definition. It isn't this particular culture/subscultures "whiteness" that defines who they are ethnically.

Stick a person of any ethnicity with white skin next to someone with brown skin and see where the differences go. Same can be said for Muslims ?quot; you see them homogenously, yet they are Shia, Sunni, Sufi, etc, etc. Indian and Bangladeshis take a huge amount of shit in Saudi Arabia, even theough they are Muslims, which white people don't get, even though they are not Muslim (I use Arab News articles for this assumption, as well as my father's experience when he worked in Saudi Arabia). The range of variation within one "brand" such as whitey or Muslim, doesn't mean anything. That is why I used the term "whitey". Heck, Asians are all lumped together here in NZ ?quot; yet trust me, my wife would not like you calling her Korean and the Korean coffee girl I see every morning for my fix is most offended when referred to as Chinese.

OK, back to guns…

1604. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185132 by Goldy on May 27, 2008 at 3:26 am

Why would you want to group all "white" people together?

answered by NakedCelt.
New toy to chew on, OUCT - why do people here want to lump all muslims together?
I'm assuming your "Epic. Fail" refers to your understanding of what I wrote ;-P
OK, bed for this whitey - yellow lass is getting cold and 1/2 and 1/2 daughter is asleep finally.
G'nite all!

1605. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185122 by Goldy on May 27, 2008 at 2:51 am

One I missed...

Islam cares little for local law - they have their own. If enough Muslims move into a country and they become a majority, they can legitimately change the laws of that country.

You'll find that people tend to leave their countries of origin for security. They obviously like to keep their culture, so will attempt to do so. If they are ostracised, that plays into the hands of those that, for whatever nefarious reasons, wish to cause civil strife.
The majority of muslims in any country do not want to change things too much (and I say this despite what Fanusi's statistics say). If they did, they'd have to move again. So they want Sharia - Jews have their own courts too. But when it comes to the biggies in legal terms, they want good laws that work - the laws of the land that accepted them.
You'll always get non-integrationists. Even English people here in NZ can be like that - I know, I work with some. Same with Chinese - I know, some are our friends (did I ever mention my wife is Chinese?) don't really ever get outside their sinological comfort zone.
If muslims become the majority, of course they can change the laws. But then, they'll be the majority - and I really don't think anyone has ever treated the minority with utter respect, have they? Even us whiteys.

1606. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185117 by Goldy on May 27, 2008 at 2:38 am

My, what a load of comments regarding what I wrote!
MaxD

Come on, this was just silly and I think you know it. What was especially low was adding Chinese to your list.

How was adding Chinese to my list especially low? Not like they were welcomed with open arms and here in NZ there's talk of the Asian Invasion. Not low at all - pretty illustrative to me, I think.
Christopher Davis

It's this white-guilt driven, apologist patronization that allows Muslims to get away with any old shit they please just by screaming "RACISM!"

Maybe, but I think the rst of us know the smell of shit when it comes our way and we can tell. If muslims call for stuff we think is crap, we'll call it thus. Wanting a school is hardly that, is it. As for the Afghanistan line - well, that must make you an expert, eh? Though forgive me if I'm worng, but it is the Taleban that is doing the school burning, not the general population (who, if I am not mistaken, are muslim). I don't think the fact that schools were provided for by western money is the reason they are burnt down - maybe the fact that the money provided for was provided by the enemy and might be turning the populations hearts towards said enemy and making said population turn away from the Taleban might conceivably be closer to the truth. But hey, what do I know - I have never been to Afghanistan. Does Syria count?
I remain to be convinced.

1607. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185067 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 8:43 pm

I meant that to prevent an Islamic school from being built isn't racism per se, even if the motives were racist, since they don't affect the outcome, per se.

I know what you are trying to say, but reading the article doesn't change my mind that the majority of protestors don't want "wogs and niggers" in the neighbourhood.
To say race isn't an issue with religions like Islam, Buddhism or Hinduism is silly. I know a white buddhist from Iowa but no one is going to tell me the mental image they have of a Buddhist is a white Iowan woman.

1608. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185064 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 8:33 pm

How is this racist? Could someone pleae tell me? I mean, Islam is a religion, not a race or ethnic group, after all.

Describe to me the stereotypical muslim in Australia. Chances are he's somewhat Arabic looking....which rather tellingly you mentioned here

If they can't tell the difference between what an Arab (ethnic group) and a Muslim (religion) is, that isn't my problem.

2. Islamic schools (specifically) will always be potential extremist hotspots

And catholic schoools, protestant schools, Jewish schools, Chinese schools won't?

...and I'm sure the atheists that are there probably are.

Oh, most probably. Be hard to be heard over the ones shouting how they don't want wogs and niggers in the neighbourhood....

1609. Mail-boat record 'proves Darwin stole his original ideas from a Welsh scientist'

Comment #185059 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 8:15 pm

Why is it that Darwin keeps getting conflated with how "life began" as we don't know that information as of yet. Seems there have been hypothesis about it but nothing solid yet.

Can anyone lend information about this claim?

Because cretinist and IDiots are stupid.

1610. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185058 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 8:13 pm

It is the Muslim community in this case who are acting in a bigoted manner by wishing to change the status quo. Resisting this change does not require one to be xenophobic, just questioning of the Quarantic Society's long term motives.

So, if I get this straight, muslims do not integrate. Indeed, they remain in their little cliques. But if they try and integrate, maybe pop out of their ghetto for a spell, then all hell breaks loose because, well, they're not like us, they'll take over, women will have to be covered, indeed pubs will shut!!! Hardly an integrationists dream, eh? They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Maybe bussing the children of muslims families might open their eyes to other communities - though I have to say if it is a community like this, I don't think they'll be too ready to maybe leave their own community and, well, integrate.

Why, in the name of 'multiculturalism' should anyone wish for the racial or religious demographic of their home to be changed to their detriment?

Why should this be so. If a person wishes to be a muslim, they can be so - they'll just have to follow the laws of the land and not demand change. This is up to the government not to fall for this "My culture is better than yours and I demand change!" line. Heck, even in Egypt they're not that limp wristed about that sort of thing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7415495.stm

Egyptian columnist Suleiman Gouda wrote that if the owner wanted to invest in the international tourism industry, then he had to play by the well-known rules of the business.

Alternatively, he wrote, quoting an unnamed Arab head of state, he should sell his hotels to those who are prepared to do so.

Supporters of the decision say Egypt is a Muslim country and foreign visitors should respect local custom.

But critics say just as Muslims expect to be served Halal food on international flights, they should be prepared to respect the desires of their Western guests.

And Egyptian liberals see the incident as a clear example of how Saudi Arabia uses its financial muscle to spread its own puritanical brand of Islam to other countries.


Egyptian author Ezzat Al Qamhawy wrote that the incident was only an example of what Saudi investment in Egypt can do.

"It can strangulate the Egyptian tourism industry... by imposing Islam on tourists who are not Muslims, and compulsory drunkenness on the Muslim fish of the River Nile," he wrote, referring to reports that the stock was emptied in the river when the owner ordered staff to get rid of it.

1611. What is science for?

Comment #185056 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 8:01 pm

I really don't think anyone will even consider the subject I'm interested in and will only go off on tangent after tangent. When I ask what one thinks about a chemical process and the answer is "look into blood libel or your a conspiracist racist nazi!", I can see I'm not going to get anywhere and should just drop it.

I can see your point, but to go on this note is to, well, give in. If Muslims shout loudly, they win - not by power or logic of argument, but by intimidation and noise. This what has beaten you?
As it is, it is a silly argument, at least to me. It just doesn't gel with me - I can't see why there can be such a huge conspiracy, such a huge successful conspiracy (may I stress the word successful?). Turkey tried but outside its borders, the massacre of Armenians is still called the Armenian Holocaust. To say others dare not deny it for whatever conspiratorial reasons is silly - you are not in prison, nor is ASMarques.
You dn't get anywhere by running away (well, OK, you - you get away ;-)) and you don't convince others by doing so. Neither, it must be said, can you yourself be convinced of any opposition to your position by running from debate.

1612. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185044 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 7:00 pm

Turegum, Hilaly is a joke and acknowledged as one. The fact he has widespread grassroots support is not more relevant than Hanson having widespread grassroots support making her any less of a joke.

1613. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185042 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 6:54 pm

This isn't a case of someone burning crosses in somebody's yard, it's about the constuction of a 1500 student Madrassa in a community that, according to this article, has been historically resistant to growth.

I know it might make you feel all open-minded and superior to point out that not all Muslims are bad people mordacious1, but if you think for one minute that the majority of Muslims reciprocate our tolerance, then you are deluding yourself.

OK, so they are going to build a school. Townspeople are probably nimbys and don't want a building that'll probably be built out of character.
And if the muslims are so intolerant, they'll not want to mix, right? So, when a bus load of "students" arrives, they'll not be going around the town but heading staight to school, then heading straight home. No mixing involved. Muslims are happy, townies are happy, no mixing happening.
I'm pretty sure the same would be happening if some aboriginal betterment program building was proposed to be built in the town.
A church, on the other hand....

1614. What is science for?

Comment #185039 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 6:48 pm

Blake - that's a bit of a cop out. Are you losing your spine to save your neck? Or has there been another change of heart, that maybe the creditable scholars are right after all and not subject to a world wide Zionist conspiracy?

1615. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185036 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 6:41 pm

Vinelectric

Something for you to consider. If you don't institutionalize religious education it goes underground and impressionable young people come out the other end, indoctrinated with whatever, to haunt the society.

Exactly. Heck, where better to put an Islamic school then? Somewhere hidden by the muslim majority or right in the centre of white Australia, with twitching curtains and suspicious neighbours? ;-)

Joshie

This is a beautiful part of New South Wales, too beautiful to be spoilt with the introduction of a non-integrating, undemocratic, misogynist, oftentimes violent value system such as Islam

I dare say pretty much any patriarchal faith system is as you describe. I dare say the aboriginal tribesmen living in that area would have said the same thing about a bunch of white (or red, depending on exposure to the sun) people appearing and telling them how they should behave.
Isn't the argument used against this school pretty much the same argument used against Israel?
As for Islam threatening our civilisation - nothing threatens that more than us ourselves. Hell, they can't even get their own shit together. Caliphate dreams will remain just that - they just can't do it. Threatening civilisations...no. They can't. They had a stab at in in the 700s coming through Spain, then the 13-1400s coming up the Blakans and finally in the 1600s coming from the East. Each a failed endeavour which, in a way, hastend the end of the Caliphate and resulted in their being colonised by those they sought to colonise. I'd worry more about rising religiosity in the west, economic decline and overbearing regulations and "safety" more than some muslim.

1616. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185014 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 5:12 pm

I can't believe I spent a good portion of my day defending islam, which I can't stand. Who was it that said (paraphrasing) What makes a democracy strong is defending the minority against the majority? Menken? bad paraphrasing at that.

The mental image I am getting is that one from Northern Ireland of protestants screaming at catholic children. Grown people showing total and utter hatred because of a doctrinal issue.
I somehow don't think this will be a North West Frontier madrassa, yet that is what people appear to fear. They think a school will islamicise the whole area, pubs will be shut, women burka clad and men forced to grow beards. Sad, in a way.

1617. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185010 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 5:01 pm

I understand that, but my point still stands.

Just playing with you ;-) I'll go and stand in the Pedant's Corner now....
Edit - but you are right - like tend to mix with like. Chinese live among themselves, Pashtun with Pashtun, Somali with Somali, etc, etc. I do believe the Bradford muslim population was relatively ethnically homogenous.
That, to me, isn't really a faith issue, more of a cultural comfort thing.
Works both ways - I dare say all the people complaining are of a certain ethnic type too...

1618. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185008 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 4:59 pm

To me, this sounds like a clear cut case of nimby-ism to me. I think the western media portrayal of muslims has worked well and got people all scared. Sure some muslims just don't like living the western life in the west - but then i can't really think of too many westerners having gone "all native" in the rest of the world....

1619. Town moves against Islamic school

Comment #185003 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 4:54 pm

when muslims move into an area they are of one ethnic descent, say Pakistani

And which ethnic group of Pakistan would you be referring to, Mordacious1? There are many - some not even muslim, or indeed following a middle eastern deity. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_in_Pakistan)

1620. Mail-boat record 'proves Darwin stole his original ideas from a Welsh scientist'

Comment #184967 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 3:03 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Line
Darwin may have the "name", at least Wallace has a geographical line :-)

1621. Mail-boat record 'proves Darwin stole his original ideas from a Welsh scientist'

Comment #184705 by Goldy on May 26, 2008 at 2:42 am

Hah ha! Take that, Darwinists! I have always maintained my Wallacianism (after all it does so confuse Cretinists and IDiots :-D)
Raiko

Also, Darwinian and Darwinist sound better whan Wallacian and Wallacist. ;)

Them's fighting words there! Just you wait while we evolve... ;-P

1622. What is science for?

Comment #184322 by Goldy on May 24, 2008 at 3:13 pm

Interesting debates about the Holocaust. I guess if enough people keep denying it, it'll be forgotten until the next one.
Thing is, I cannot be convinced of the huge Zionist conspiracy that led to this. Does this mean the Armenians are also wrong? Or their marketing people are compromised? Hmmm....
Another thing I can't get is why, after burning and pre-industrial progroms in the east, the treatment of undesireables by floating them away in Narrenschiff, from "Kauf nicht bei Juden" and Kristallnacht (forgive me spelling!), from the experienced gained by the total unconcern world wide of Armenians in Ottoman provinces in Iraq, Syria, etc, how can one think the Nazis couldn't do what they did? Since then, we've seen killing fields in Cambodia, we've seen ethnic violence in China, in the Middle East, in Africa, shit, even in Europe again...why do people think it was not possible?

1623. Richard Dawkins lecture at ASU's Tempe Campus

Comment #183819 by Goldy on May 22, 2008 at 11:21 pm

But to say that everyone has thier beliefs or faith because they were born into it--is simply not true at all.

So true. No baby I have ever met knew of any god. All were born athiests.

1624. Sun's properties not 'fine-tuned' for life

Comment #183761 by Goldy on May 22, 2008 at 6:22 pm

Teratornis

I'm more inclined to trust an oilman like T. Boone Pickens, Jr. who claims world oil production has peaked and will never again exceed the 2005 maximum of 85 million barrels per day, let alone do we have any realistic chance of seeing the EIA/IEA's prediction of 30% production growth over the next decade or two.

You may like this article. The Have Your Say section is good for a few laughs too :-)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/oil-supplies-running-on-empty-832874.html

1625. 16% of US science teachers are creationists

Comment #183760 by Goldy on May 22, 2008 at 6:15 pm

V'ger: "I wouldn't want my kids taught by a creationist because I equate that viewpoint with a lack of intelligence." to paraphrase. Sounds similar to "I wouldn't want my kids taught by negros because they just aren't as smart." or "I wouldn't want my kids taught by gays because they, simply by existing, espouse a lifestyle I find immoral."

not really. One is a choice, the others are not. You chose to believe, you don't chose your sex, sexuality or race.

1626. 'Reverse Evolution' Discovered in Seattle Fish

Comment #183758 by Goldy on May 22, 2008 at 6:12 pm

Is this an example of evolution in "reverse" or simply another adaptation along a continuum that happens to be similar or maybe even identical to a form that previously existed? "Reverse" evolution seems like a strange concept to me. It simply seems as if the fish is adapting to its changing environment. Doesn't reverse imply a direction?

No more reverse than you putting on more clothing in the winter is a reversal to the last winter.
Summer, less clothing, winter, more clothing. Murky water, less armour, clear water, more armour.
Easy peasy.

1627. Richard Dawkins lecture at ASU's Tempe Campus

Comment #183757 by Goldy on May 22, 2008 at 6:08 pm

Layla, if I remember right you are a convert to Islam, eh? Losing your faith? Why? Is it all faiths or just specific faiths?
Just interested because of a friend of mine. She did a bit of faith shopping until she hit buddhism. Of course, she also met a bloke adn got married at teh same time - which I think is the real reason for her "harmony" now :-)

1628. How to reconcile Richard Dawkins?

Comment #183716 by Goldy on May 22, 2008 at 3:24 pm

I will repeat it so that the straw man societies of North Korea, Cuba, Russia, China etc, which are all capitalist, are not used as arguments against the idea of socialism.

As Quetz said, they call themselves socialist. Indeed, China followed the ideals a lot closer before Deng Xiaoping opened the markets a bit to allow for limited capitalism. Shall we compare China pre-1976 to China now?
Hard ot make true socialism work. No, hang on, I'll rephrase that. Impossible to make true socialism work. People don't work that way. Even people stereotypically seem as bowing en masse to central control (like the Chinese) don't like restrictions imposed by socialism.
Shame as I quite like the concept - though buggered if I'd live under that system!

1629. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182571 by Goldy on May 20, 2008 at 2:33 pm

...but this article only proves their argument of Darwinists being arrogant to be true

I agree! Never once do I hear a Darwinist give any credit to Wallace, nor even mention Wallace once when talking of evolution. Always Darwin this and Darwin that.
Pah!
Another gripe of mine is ...why do people who never think (the religious) always have some name that refers to clearminded free thinking? Free thinking and clear minds are exactly the opposite of what religion requires. Dogma and ignorance, that's the main requirements! Look at clearthinkers contributions. See how txpiper fights education all the way to his grave (have to say at least he's not got and oxymoronic name).

1630. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182370 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 9:42 pm

You might enjoy this article as well as it is about a shared protein

;-) Working in cancer research, a lot of my in votro work depends on shared proteins. Mouse, rat, dog and human :-)

1631. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182343 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 7:09 pm

Talking of small changes...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/jurassic-park-technique-resurrects-extinct-dna-831017.html
Same story in the Telegraph...
Just shows, though, how different species (and even txpiper must concede that a placental mouse is a different species from a marsupial thylacine) can share information in their DNA, information that is conserved, despite their differences and ages of divergence.
Txpiper, you may bang on about different species being different from adapted same species, but here you can see we are all "adapted same species" - just some have taken the adaptation to much, much greater lengths. Your adaptations are the transitionals cretinists are forever asking for. Strange how you cannot see what is right in front of you!

1632. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182342 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 7:07 pm

Diacanu, I am afraid we have a militant ignorant. He fights hard to maintain the darkness in his mind. Thinking outside the biblical box is sinful...
Sad, really. The beauty of biology is lost to him. Indeed, the magical discovery that science brings to the mind is...quashed. Imagination is forbidden, progress stamped on, enlightenment snuffed.

1633. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182341 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 7:03 pm

Did the same mutations that slowly extended and fused the upper lip and nose, also extend the incisors into tusks, or was that a separate, coincidental series?

Could have been coincidental, or one may have influenced the other. Maybe the elephant is a progression of that theme of prehensile tusk and large incisor. Maybe the wild pigs you see are a throwback to that stage.
Incidently, while looking up trunk evolution, I came across this...http://www.darwinism-watch.com/index.php?git=makale&makale_id=1291
Man, oh, man, what militant ignorance! Here's a quote

The deception which is taking place here is the portrayal of the claim that certain organs developed according to specific needs as if this were a proven historical development. Yet in the same way that there is no evidence for this, neither could such a process actually have happened. No living thing can develop new structures inside its body, no matter how much it may wish to. For example, no matter how much a person might wish to fly and concentrates on that idea for 10 hours a day, or even spends all his time in an effort to take to the air, the result will always be the same. Not even a single bird feather will ever appear on his arm, let alone a fully-formed wing.

Maybe prison is the only option for Adnan Oktar...

1634. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182338 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 6:54 pm

But you can't hang out with yeast and fruit flies and consider some measurable nuance that occurs at that level into the kind of changes that are said to have happened in large animals.

Why not? If it happens at a cellular level, doesn't that extrapolate "upwards"? After all, what can happen in a fruitfly happens in humans and whales. Just that fruitflies live shorter lives adn so can show the progression of a mutation in a population quicker.

1635. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182334 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 6:48 pm

Is he unaware that water molecules always organize themselves into more complex structures when they get colder? Has he never heard of ice or snow?

gr8hands, he probably thinks the Devil's Causeway is an act of God (or, indeed, the Devil...). Either that or leprechauns spent many a summer dilligently carving out the nice geometric shapes.
I guess he's also never grown a crystal. Aaaah, the perils of dropping science classes...

1636. Richard Dawkins Responds to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #182327 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 5:39 pm

1920s/30s Germany was a free country, a liberal democracy, and a stronghold of European art and culture, and yet all it took was the collapse of the economy to get all of these intelligent and enlightened people to gather behind a madman and turn their backs on everyone that was different.

Losing a war (a particularly bloody one), harsh reparation terms, losing territory and all this after being told things were going peachy might also have had a small part to play in this. Don't forget, the Germans didn't just turn to Nazism for the fun of it - it was in reaction to external stimuli.

..being somewhat of a Holocaust buff (I hope that doesn't sound macabre)

Ooooh, we must link you to ASMarques, our resident Holocaust denier!

1637. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182325 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 5:31 pm

P.S. Big-T, I just rode my bike (bicycle) to the store and back (7 km each way with BIG hill) and found it to be much harder than it was 15 lbs. ago

Strange how that happens, eh? I remember my cycling days as not being that particularly hard...but then I was 20kg lighter...

You are a bad man Goldy

Muahahahah! :-)

1638. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182309 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 4:21 pm

Goldy

I've got a bit of astigmatism as well,on top of the myopia.

Heh - hindsight, foresight - it's all stuffed.

Honestly glad no bike :-)

Heheheheh! Check these bikes out and tell me you'd not want one! http://www.changjiangunlimited.com/wn.htm

1639. Richard Dawkins Responds to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #182308 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 4:19 pm

People are not assigned to be prosecutor of God or carrying out God's Punishment. A true believer can't be a murderer and a murderer can't be a true believer.

So Jesus was not the son of God, Mohammed was not his prophet, etc, etc, because they assigned these tasks upon themselves. Fair enough. As for the murdering, the OT has quite a bit of God sanctioned murders - or are those holy killings? And when old Abe held aloft his dagger to kill Isaac, was he not a murderer in thought? After all, it too divine intervention to prevent his act.
I think you are confused in your religion. Probably why you spout crap.

Second we obey God not because we fear but to be grateful and thankful for creating us. The one who loves obeys whom he loves. Fear is for non-believers or atheists. For a believer, there is no fear.

Well, if one doesn't fear God, I guess these tee shirts are not going to sell well...http://www.feargod.com/home.htm
Steve, you're back :-) How'd the bread making go? Honey wheat beer (the liquid bread) is bottled - not going for a chocolate and chili dark beer. Forget bread, come to the liquid side!

1640. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182305 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 4:12 pm

Re motorcycles, I once had a desire for one in my teens which caused parental panic like you wouldn't believe. With hindsight, I'm glad they stopped me.

If you had been allowed to have one, how would your hindsight be now? Are you sure you're glad, or just assuming?
As for eyesight, i have slight astigmatism. I too assumed everyone saw things as I saw them.... a case of they were abnormal, unlike me :-)
I'll say again - txpiper is a biblical literalist. His science is fucked before the first hurdle. Hell, it's fucked on the starting block. He sees things like I see physical things. As I did regarding my sight, he sees the reality as abnormal. Why bother? Is he conceding anything? Or, like Phil's great uncle and his fish, is he fighting all the way?

1641. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182279 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 3:05 pm

Cheers Ste5e! I feel better now! :-D

1642. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182278 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 3:02 pm

txpiper...hmmmm. Just how did he think (I am assuming the sex) he could convince people with scientific background of his ideas when he believes in the Biblical flood? That alone completely destroys credibility.

1643. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182276 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 2:59 pm

And anyway, I'm feeling like a Christian for wanting to ride a motorbike :-( Delusionally insane... :-( And I spent about a decade restoring the thing! Obviously I feel a bit aggreived ;-) Besides, no one has mentioned what a suicidal maniac I was for cycling to work for 3 years! And that has a huge speed differential leading to greater injuries AND some car drivers appear to have a pathological hatred for cyclists on "their" road.

1644. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182272 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 2:54 pm

Quetz - as do I. And all the accidents I see involve cars!

1645. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182267 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 2:42 pm

Quetz, I'm sure you can find car crashes too - even fatal ones, like the ones that killed 2 uncles of mine...

1646. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182265 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 2:41 pm

Al, I spent 3 years cycling in Auckland - I have stared death in the face many a time :-) As it is, motorcycling is more dangerous than driving a car - that's why you will find motorcyclists are generally less "ape-ish" than the average car driver.
To make matters more interesting, here in NZ one can get a full license at the age of 15. Something to do with farmers, so I am told. Whatever - would you feel safe crosing the street knowing there's some kid is a rather high powered Japanese sports car (oh, didn't I tell you? Insurance is NOT compulsary here :-))?
As it is, nearly everything has a level of risk - even driving a box. It is the thing you take into account when you embark on whatever undertaking. I know full well motorcycling puts me at greater danger from car drivers - I try and lessen this by a)having a motorcycle that doesn't work at the mo and b) use the same awareness I used when I cycled to work, with greater emphasis on reading the road conditions (if you see a brake light on about a mile away, begin driving very carefully, etc).
I have also seen the mess a wild animal can do to a person - would that stop you hunting? I have seen the mess a car or bus can do to a person and I know some popel drive drunk - does that stop you crossing the street? I have seen cirrhotic livers - I still drink...as, I guess, you do to :-)
All personal choices.

1647. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182246 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 2:02 pm

Anna, a VW? Careful there! Death trap waiting to kill you. This motorcyclist has warned you :-) (we know death, apparently ;-))
As it is, cycling is a major cause of injury here in Auckland (no cycle coherent cycle lanes, you see, and people in cars I wouldn't trust in shoes) as are pedestrian injuries. I believe the last reported fatality was of a woman being struck near a bus stop.
Be careful in shoes - they can kill...

1648. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #182243 by Goldy on May 19, 2008 at 1:55 pm

Having a motorcycle myself, I have to say that all the deaths in my family were a result of car accidents.
Avoid VW products....

1649. Richard Dawkins Responds to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #181932 by Goldy on May 18, 2008 at 8:42 pm

Example, IF I said you are STUPID, then, i will calling myself indeed. But i never call or insult anybody on my comments. This is an attitude of believer.

Which one??

1650. Richard Dawkins Responds to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Comment #181931 by Goldy on May 18, 2008 at 8:41 pm

Atheist people with sick mind are able to do anything since they have no fear of God and Judgement day

Religious people with sick mind are able to do anything since they are doing God's work and will be rewarded on Judgement day.
As my daughter says "Like same!"