151. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #244385 by GoatBoy36 on September 8, 2008 at 3:52 pm

Sciros,

What I think you're asking Fanusi is: "Which yardstick are you using to measure your own "moral" yardstick, and everyone else's yardsticks against - and so declare one "better" than the other?"

gb.

152. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #244285 by GoatBoy36 on September 8, 2008 at 2:09 pm

Hairy Bear & Sciros,

You're welcome, if only I can figure out a way to start talking about Battlestar Galactica and Big Love ...

gb.

153. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #244278 by GoatBoy36 on September 8, 2008 at 2:03 pm

Hey, that's pretty nice. Actually I saw a clip from one of your movies just the other day and you were playing the piano in it - now that you mention it.

As for Ayaan Hirsi Ali, I made a donation to her security fund, and bought two copies of "Infidel", one as a (Christmas) gift and one for myself. She seems to be a controversial figure though, I can't figure out why. I mean, obviously in the Islamic world she's going to be controversial, but in the West in general - and here on this website in particular? Man, there have been some heated threads whenever she is mentioned. I really don't know why that is. So far as I'm concerned, she's a hugely impressive person. An MP? I'd like to see her as PM.

154. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #244247 by GoatBoy36 on September 8, 2008 at 1:30 pm

Thanks - er, you missed one btw. If you wouldn't mind ..

gb.

155. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #244242 by GoatBoy36 on September 8, 2008 at 1:23 pm

Er, because I asked you to for the reason I gave?

If that's not good enough for you, then please yourself, & don't bother.

I just thought I was doing you a favour, I'm sure I read somewhere a while ago that you had been unhappy about someone pirating some of your movies (and rightly so), and thought that you might want to know, if someone was doing something similar. That was all. I didn't intend to "out" you or anything. Just out of interest, are you still making movies? a certain Mr. Silvera has made a fortune in the Ts genre, and I think I would be right in saying that you were his first .. I hope you've done half as well as he has!

gb.

156. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #244227 by GoatBoy36 on September 8, 2008 at 1:12 pm

Hey, pretty cool eh. Please edit your post & delete my name from that though. It was a pm, rather than a post to a public forum.

thanks

gb.

157. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #244224 by GoatBoy36 on September 8, 2008 at 1:07 pm

"Doing your best to defend the honor of transexual porn stars."


Too right, lol ...

158. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #244219 by GoatBoy36 on September 8, 2008 at 1:03 pm

Guys,

Thought I'd comment on this thread. Brandy Scott is a veteran transexual porn star. She has a contact page on eros (an escort site - with softcore pics) which you can Google easily (and if you do, you can see the captured pic being used as "BrandySpears" avatar btw).

I've found a couple of email contacts for Brandy Scott and have emailed her at both of them, to let her know that "BrandySpears" is on this site using her photo.

gb.

159. Divine Impulses: Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #208145 by GoatBoy36 on July 10, 2008 at 4:21 pm

Regarding the use by AHA of her clan name as opposed to "Magan"; this is an accepted cultural practice in her homeland. I live in Scotland and when one goes to buy a kilt, in order to attend a wedding, a graduation or whatever, one is not asked for one's surname, but for the name of one's clan. (This may or may not be the same as your surname.) This cultural practice is widespread, and just as I am entitled to use my clan's name, so is, and so was, she.

160. Richard Dawkins on five of his favorite books

Comment #147448 by GoatBoy36 on March 20, 2008 at 12:49 pm

Ernest Hemingway - The Sun Also Rises
Hermann Hesse - Demian
A.J. Quinnell - Man on Fire
Massimo Carlotto - The Goodbye Kiss
Jack Kerouac - Dharma Bums

That's the five I thought of straight away.

161. Submission, 'Part 1'

Comment #110810 by GoatBoy36 on January 12, 2008 at 4:30 pm

Daleadil,

A worst case scenario something like .... flying planes into buildings?

gb.

162. Sam Harris debate with Rabbi David Wolpe

Comment #107438 by GoatBoy36 on January 4, 2008 at 2:08 pm

kintaro crab,

Yes I've been thinking lately that this is a good response to that argument - what about America then, that whole separation of church and state idea - never mind Hitler's Germany, how do you (the theist) think that America is doing?

gb.

163. Submission, 'Part 1'

Comment #105604 by GoatBoy36 on January 1, 2008 at 7:44 am

Interesting reactions. And quite amusing. I notice that whenever RD or Hitchens are on TV interacting with theists we see the same old responses by theists to questions put by them: for example on the BBC programme recently Dawkins asked a believer what *he* would think if he died and found out that Baal was truly "God". Cue for the theist to do anything rather than actually address the question. Et cetera. We've all seen this time and again.

And now we have the delightfully entertaining Vinelectric acting as if he were a priest on FOX News. What a hoot! I can only repeat, I'm not obsessed with anything. This is a board dealing with, among other things, religous matters, and Vinelectric is a poster on it. He's commented on Ayaan Hirsi Ali's movie before now, and here's the movie. I wondered what he had to say about it, since it was the topic of the thread. That's straightforward enough.

I'm not "demanding" anything, and I'm certainly not "barking mad" or "obsessed" with anyone or anything, for wondering what someone who has voiced strong opinions on a particular movie before, thinks of that same movie, now that it has been included on this website. It's a reasonable question - as was Dawkin's question to that theist fellow btw.

The admin (Josh?) posted the movie at the top of the thread - is he obsessed? Richard Dawkins has his name at the top of this website - is he obsessed? Anyone who comments on this thread, or this website - are they obsessed? Hardly. The suggestion is absurd. (A companions in guilt move there.)

I notice that Vinelectric still won't tell us what he thinks of the movie though.

gb.

PS. As for the ridiculous "You don't comment here all that often" line, that's laughably immature. There's a thing called "work" you know. And a lot of other things that make up something that's called "real life". All of that is far more important - to me anyway - than the (very) part time hobby of posting on a little old message board. It's pretty sad that I have to point that out, but there it is anyway.

164. Submission, 'Part 1'

Comment #105263 by GoatBoy36 on December 31, 2007 at 3:08 am

Vinelectric,

I don't have any: you're certainly not one; don't flatter yourself into thinking that you could possibly be anything more than well, a poster on a board I use sometimes. That's all you'll ever be. Obviously.

Getting back to the matter at hand: I wonder what you will have to say about the short film "Submission" which is at the top of this thread. (Given your earlier remarks. )

gb.

165. Submission, 'Part 1'

Comment #105127 by GoatBoy36 on December 30, 2007 at 4:25 pm

I wonder what Vinelectric will have to say about this.

166. This Week's Flea

Comment #100783 by GoatBoy36 on December 19, 2007 at 10:26 am

I've never really understood the appeal of this "no god = a world with no purpose" argument.

On the one hand we have the theist's view which says that there exists an invisible being who listens to your every thought and sees your every act, who demands unswerving obedience, and who intends to torture millions of human beings endlessly - and if you're one of His chosen few you'll be able to watch (and you'll be expected to applaud).

On the other hand, life's what you make it. So I can say to myself as I sit here typing - it's a cold night, I'm looking forward to putting on my new electric blanket and having a good night's kip, maybe I'll watch a couple episodes of the Sopranos on DVD later as well, and you know, I think I'll pursue that young lassie I met earlier in the week & who knows, maybe that'll turn out well - and tomorrow, I think I'll make myself a couple of tuna steaks with some nice pasta for my dinner. I'll enjoy that.

Purpose? I've got enough purpose in my life, thank you very much. As for thinking that life is a big test & we're all under examination by a cosmic tyrant & will either be a torture victim or will be expected to watch others be tortured & at the same time kiss the feet of their torturer - man I think I'll go with Hitchens on this & say any sane person ought to be an anti-theist. How could anyone want that to be true?

167. Mitt Romney's Faith In America address (as prepared for delivery)

Comment #95209 by GoatBoy36 on December 7, 2007 at 3:12 pm

gcdavis,

You simply must read the opening passage of "English Passengers" by Matthew Kneale.

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/k/matthew-kneale/english-passengers.htm

In fact read the whole thing if you can. But the opening, when the rev. starts thinking about the different rivers mentioned in Genesis, is absolutely hilarious. One wonders though, how different it is from the religion invented by Joseph Smith, he of the fantastic translating spectacles.

gb.

168. Ask The God Delusion author Richard Dawkins

Comment #94325 by GoatBoy36 on December 5, 2007 at 10:07 am

Hi mad monk, I see you live in Malta. I've just finished reading "Angels of Iron " which is about the great siege. I've actually booked a holiday in Malta next year, and thought I'd read up a bit more of the island's history before I go. I got interested after reading A.J. Quinnell ("Man on Fire", "The Perfect Kill", "The Blue Ring") whose character "Creasy" lived on Gozo. Anyway, I'm looking forward to visiting Malta, especially after another long cold winter in NE Scotland. :-)

gb.

169. Fear of censure deflects The Golden Compas

Comment #93926 by GoatBoy36 on December 4, 2007 at 1:12 pm

My daemon is Valthera, an osprey. Apparently.

I had a look on Amazon for Robert Aickman, and there doesn't appear to be any new books of his, only 2nd hand ones that you can get from other sellers. Some are quite pricey, but there are a few that are ok, price-wise. "Powers of Darkness" which appears to have been published in 1966, is priced at £99.00 which is a bit steep. For example. "The Attempted Rescue" is going for just over £30. I don't know if you've come across either of them. There are a few "Fonanta" volumes of what appears to be short stories (?) which are a lot cheaper than that though. I'm not a huge fan of the fantasy genre, but I do enjoy a creepy novel now and again. :-)

gb.

170. Fear of censure deflects The Golden Compas

Comment #93834 by GoatBoy36 on December 4, 2007 at 9:29 am

Hey, Ducklike, I had a quick look at that list and noticed one writer I'd forgotten about, L Ron Hubbard. I read the "Mission Earth" novels a while ago, well more than ten years ago now. They were something else, quite entertaining in a way like.

171. Fear of censure deflects The Golden Compas

Comment #93828 by GoatBoy36 on December 4, 2007 at 9:14 am

How about fiction with an atheistic slant? Ok there's the Philip Pulman novels, but I haven't really found much writing that deals with atheism, aye there's a lot of books out there arguing against theism, just do a search on Amazon and you'll get plenty hits - but fiction, not so much. Not overtly anyway. I suppose you could say that the "noir" novels I like are reflections of a godless world, if you want to get all deep and meaningful about it. One excellent resource I found is "International Noir" which has some good reviews:

http://internationalnoir.blogspot.com/

172. Fear of censure deflects The Golden Compas

Comment #93820 by GoatBoy36 on December 4, 2007 at 9:04 am

In fact I'm just sitting at my laptop looking right across at my bookshelf and on the main shelf there's books by Colby Buzzell, Charlie Huston, Ernest Hemingway, A.J. Quinnell, Greg Rucka (Shooting at Midnight & A Fistful of Rain), some Robert G. Barrett (Read "The Godson!"), Massimo Carlotto and well, more along the same lines. No fantasy novels at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colby_Buzzell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Huston

http://www.harpercollins.com.au/robertgbarrett/

http://www.massimocarlotto.it/english/biography.html

http://www.gregrucka.com/shootingatmidnight.html

173. Fear of censure deflects The Golden Compas

Comment #93813 by GoatBoy36 on December 4, 2007 at 8:53 am

http://p208.ezboard.com/favtfrm0.showMessage?topicID=5004.topic&index=6

A "what books have you read lately?" thread - lots of fantasy stuff there, Neil Gaiman and so forth. (Not for me though.)

I did read a couple of the "Foundation" novels when I was at college years ago, like in the early 90s. And I've read a couple of Philip K. Dick stories, & some Larry Niven here and there (with his writing partner whose name I forget right now). Overall though the whole genre's just not for me.

gb.

174. Fear of censure deflects The Golden Compas

Comment #93810 by GoatBoy36 on December 4, 2007 at 8:42 am

I was actually in Waterstones in Aberdeen earlier today & picked up "The Golden Compass" (as it's now being called apparently) and wondered ... will I give it another go? ... but decided no, I just couldn't face it and ended up buying "A Walk In The Dark" by Gianrico Carofiglio and "Ask The Parrot" by Richard Stark. More my cup of tea. Which tells you something I suppose. No wonder I can't take the bible seriously.

http://www.bitterlemonpress.com/author_details.asp?ath=5

http://www.hachettebookgroupusa.com/authors/56/749/index.html

175. Fear of censure deflects The Golden Compas

Comment #93800 by GoatBoy36 on December 4, 2007 at 8:25 am

Northern Bright & AllanW,

I agree, I did NOT enjoy the book at all. I bought it on CD, and tried to listen to it while commuting, but ended up throwing the discs out the window.

I'm a member of a book club, and a couple of people there have raved about Pulman's work but I have to say, it just leaves me cold.

gb.

176. Debate: Ayaan Hirsi Ali vs Ed Husain

Comment #93524 by GoatBoy36 on December 3, 2007 at 11:20 am

Bonzai,

I agree with brian, your posts have been excellent on this thread. I take your point: Atheists who insist that a literal interpretation of the more bellicose passages in the Koran reflect the true nature of Islam are making the same claim that a "fundamentalist" would make.

And if you present someone with only two choices, that is to say atheism or "fundamentalism" then you are closing off to them a third way, that of what has been called "moderate" Islam.

Maybe I'd say a little more but I've just finished 7 overnight shifts in a row so I'm too tired to think properly.

Anyway, I just thought I'd say that I see what you're saying & enjoyed reading your posts.

gb.

177. My life under a fatwa

Comment #92060 by GoatBoy36 on November 29, 2007 at 7:51 pm

And Vinelectric,

To say that, at a centre for asylum seekers, there were quite a lot of Muslim immigrants, who each hoped to be treated decently by the Dutch authorities, is merely reporting a fact.

It's not "inciting hatred with lies".

Get a hold of yourself man.

gb.

178. My life under a fatwa

Comment #92056 by GoatBoy36 on November 29, 2007 at 7:35 pm

My cousin is trying to emigrate to Australia right now. He is a Scot, with a background in engineering (in fact 20 years ago he was my apprentice) and will have no problem at all getting a job, paying taxes etc. - and you should see what he has had to go through.

It's a two part process, takes about a year, and costs a fortune. And you MUST apply from outside Australia.

We've discussed all this a few times, and we've both said the same thing: why doesn't our government take a similar approach to immigration? That is to say, when someone says they're an engineer (or whatever) - make sure they are. Background checks - they're common nowadays for everyone, just try getting a job without your employer using Disclosure Scotland - so that seems reasonable. And so forth ..

The way you hear some people talking about the immigration of Muslims, or whoever - oh let them in, everyone's the same and we're no better than anyone else - you'd think that Australia was like Nazi Germany.

what's wrong with their approach? nothing at all. what would be wrong with the UK doing likewise? same answer.

btw if anyone fancies reading a pretty good novel which deals with, among other things, Australian immigration (years ago), I'd definitely recommend "Brother Fish" by Bryce Courtenay. a right good read.

and when discussing what percentage of the population of Europe will be Muslims in ten years time or whatever, surely the number of converts ought to be considered also?

179. Mitt the Mormon

Comment #91484 by GoatBoy36 on November 28, 2007 at 12:33 pm

mikeshin,

thanks for the link, there's some decent stuff to download there & put on my iPod. :-)

gb.

180. Turkey probes atheist's 'God' book

Comment #91477 by GoatBoy36 on November 28, 2007 at 12:16 pm

blackwolf,

Excellent point. I watched Ann Coulter on Hannity and Colmes not long ago and she was getting a row from Alan Colmes because she'd said that Jews didn't accept that Jesus was the Messiah and apparently that comment was typical anti-Semitic language. I mean he really wasn't happy. Ann said to him but you're saying that Christianity itself is anti-Semitic because that's just a basic Christian belief, that Jesus is the Messiah. Sean Hannity for once wasn't saying much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpg584d7rZ8&feature=related

(Skip the first 4 minutes or so. )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu_qQj6kjpk&feature=related

gb.

181. Bankrolling Ali's Asylum

Comment #91447 by GoatBoy36 on November 28, 2007 at 10:29 am

Donald,

yes that's one thing everyone can certainly do, buy and read Ayaan's book.

gb.

182. Turkey probes atheist's 'God' book

Comment #91441 by GoatBoy36 on November 28, 2007 at 10:21 am

In the immortal words of Tony Soprano:

You see?

You see now why it is so important to protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

183. Bankrolling Ali's Asylum

Comment #90976 by GoatBoy36 on November 26, 2007 at 9:36 pm

Jesus, what a shower! Sam's words are not a dig at atheists, they're a challenge to christians. I despair sometimes, I really do. Apparently one in five adults can't read and write properly. I didn't believe that when I heard it. I'm going to email the person who told me though, and get them to read this thread. I just know what they're going to say to me ... told you so!

184. Bankrolling Ali's Asylum

Comment #90966 by GoatBoy36 on November 26, 2007 at 8:38 pm

queen5102, eric711 and adonais,

I totally agree. It seems blindingly obvious to me that Sam Harris was saying that atheists *are* moral and socially engaged, but that since Christians are always saying *they* are - well then (addressing supporters of Rick Warren, and in so doing targetting a lot of potential contributors to this worthy cause) - go on and act like it. I really don't see what people here are getting all bent out of shape about at all.

I agree too that there is quite a bit of mean-spiritedness about on this site. First Kelly from the rational responders squad got it, then Ayaan Hirsi Ali and now Sam Harris. What is going on?

gb

185. Bankrolling Ali's Asylum

Comment #90838 by GoatBoy36 on November 26, 2007 at 1:38 pm

Well, I didn't take offence at Sam's remark since it was obviously meant as a humourous dig at Christians who often try to say the same thing about atheists - he's turning round what is usually said and aiming it back at those who say it - in the best possible taste of course. Lighten up guys!

And someone said they were going to buy a 2nd copy of Infidel and give it to someone as a gift: which gives me an idea - how about buying Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book and giving it to people at Christmas? A book by an atheist for a Christmas present, man I like it ..

gb.

186. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #90602 by GoatBoy36 on November 25, 2007 at 6:10 pm

It's my understanding, having read Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book a while ago, that she gave her clan name when she applied to stay in Holland, and ultimately this was found to be in accordance with cultural practice in her homeland, so the matter was dropped by the Dutch authorities looking into the matter. This struck a chord with me, because we do the same thing here. If someone asked me who I was, I'd do a similar thing to Ayaan. I could of course give my surname, and there would be nothing wrong with that. But I could also give my clan name, and that's accepted too, at least in some contexts. The fascination with family trees is common here too, if you're meeting someone for the first time it's the done thing to discuss your ancestors, at least going back a couple of generations, until the other person has your identity "fixed" in their own mind. (Similar to the practice described by Ayaan in "Infidel".) If I wanted to buy myself a kilt for some important occasion, I'd give the shop owner my clan name, not my surname, and he or she would use the appropriate tartan. And I'd wear it with pride to the graduation ceremony, wedding, or whatever because there's a huge element of personal identity tied into the whole idea of one's clan. Put it this way: if I were ever to write a book about who I am (not much chance but that's not the point) then yes I'd have my forename and surname on the cover, but the first sentence in chapter one would be a statement about which clan I belong to. And from where I come from at least, that statement would be appropriate.

So if anyone wants to make a black and white statement about Ayaan Hirsi Ali's application to stay in Holland, I'd argue that there are shades of grey here. That ought to be acknowledged.

gb.

187. The absurd world of Martin Amis

Comment #90510 by GoatBoy36 on November 25, 2007 at 11:42 am

You're a class act Vinnie, and don't let anyone tell you different!

gb.

188. The absurd world of Martin Amis

Comment #90497 by GoatBoy36 on November 25, 2007 at 10:57 am

Summer Seale,

Amen brother!

gb.

189. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #90481 by GoatBoy36 on November 25, 2007 at 9:20 am

Is that all you have to say for yourself now, Vinelectric? Quite a poor show. Not long ago you said, "Who cares if you're right or wrong or if Hirsi Ali deserves the obscene amount of money she needs to live in the US and work for the neo cons." If you don't even care about Ayaan Hirsi Ali's needing protection in order to stay alive, be that in the Netherlands or the US or wherever she chooses to make a life for herself (and that is her choice to make), then one can't help wondering why you chose to waste your time commenting here in the first place. Ah well, only you know that. Now firstly, you don't have to worry about anyone at all coming up to you on the street and stabbing you for posting on this website, clearly that's not going to happen, whereas Ayaan Hirsi Ali does have to worry about that, and worse. There is a difference really. Secondly, if you knew anything at all you'd know that Aberdonians aren't goat fuckers, we're all sheep shagging bastards, jesus man abody kens that!


gb.

190. The absurd world of Martin Amis

Comment #90449 by GoatBoy36 on November 25, 2007 at 7:16 am

I remember Xeno. I remember discussing this before too.

On this thread.

(Sky News article.)

gb.

191. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #90438 by GoatBoy36 on November 25, 2007 at 6:39 am

Fanusi,

You said earlier that you were interested in finding out a little bit more about the great siege of Malta; I'm reading a good book just now called Angels of Iron by Nicholas Prata, which I picked up for just a few dollars from Amazon dot com.

http://www.arxpub.com/literary/Angels/AngelsinIron.html

The book's worth reading, as is Ernle Bradford's better known book on the same subject. But you won't go far wrong with either one. You might be able to pick one up on Amazon, on their marketplace even, although I think Bradford's book is quite hard to get hold of nowadays.

Anyway, should you ever come across either book, you might want to give it a go.

gb.

192. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #90432 by GoatBoy36 on November 25, 2007 at 6:09 am

Vinelectric,


"And about that holy martyr Van Gogh." - Vinelectric, comment #88985


"I'm quite surprised by the views expressed by some of the users of this site. Appleby appears to think that Ayaan Hirsi Ali being killed for renouncing Islam and trying to live a free and intellectually fulfilling life would somehow encourage others who want to do the same.

This surprises me because while the notion of martyrdom might form the backbone of an argument that one might expect to appeal to Christians, or perhaps to Muslims, it does not seem likely that such an argument will appeal to non-religious people.

It seems to me that most of the people using this site are non-religious, and as I said, one would expect Appleby's comments on martyrdom to fall on barren ground. But if Appleby is also not a religous person, which seems likely since he (or she) is using this website, it is difficult to see how the idea that Ayaan Hirsi Ali's becoming a martyr would gain any more traction in their mind than it does in say, mine. Nevertheless, Appleby's comments were made.

I can only say that I disagree strongly with what Appleby said. It seems startlingly obvious to me that the best thing people in the West can do in this particular situation is make sure that Ayaan Hirsi Ali is *not* killed. To say that her death at the hands of a Muslim fanatic is desirable, and would have positive consequences for us all, is absurd." - gb, comment #88948

See previous post.

gb.

193. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #90361 by GoatBoy36 on November 24, 2007 at 4:42 pm

"Sometimes people wind up as heroes of free speech by following the footsteps of the scum of the earth." - Vinelectric, comment #88720 (Referring to Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Theo Van Gogh.)

"..Hirsi Ali's disgusting "submission" film project .." - Vinelectric, comment #88720

"..if she's come all the way from Somalia, sure she'd find the patience to stay low for a little while." - Vinelectric, comment #88720 (The relevance of Ms. Ali's coming from Somalia escapes me. It's your comment though, V, so there it is.)

"a foul mouthed scum" - Vinelectric, comment #88985 (Referring to Theo Van Gogh.)

"Tragic deaths do not absolve people from the crimes they have committed against humanity whether it be physical crimes or dehumanising speech." - Vinelectric, comment #88985 (Referring to Theo Van Gogh.)

"If her security difficulties weren't so well publicized maybe she'd be a bit safer anyway." - Vinelectric, comment #88720 (Referring to Ayaan Hirsi Ali.)



"You appear to be saying that if the Muslims who are so offended by Ayaan Hirsi Ali's work that they want her dead believe that she has armed guards with her at all times then they will be less likely to try to assassinate her. Okay, well I think we'd all agree with that, so far as it goes.

Since there are problems with providing her protection though, I take it you are saying something like: let's keep it quiet and don't let the people who would try to assassinate her know about it - and the belief that she has armed guards with her 24/7 will suffice.

A debatable point, surely. All it would take would be a Muslim who did not care if he survived an attack on his target to make an attempt on her life, and if she had no guards at that particular time, then he could easily succeed.

And it's possible, is it not, for such an assassin to exist? They may be the exception rather than the rule, let's grant that for the sake of argument. But we've seen Muslims carry out attacks on everyday, anonymous civilians (Glasgow airport for example) who did not expect to survive the event. It seems reasonable to assume that a person such as that could, if they had the opportunity, carry out an attack on an apostate, someone who has renounced their religion and criticised their prophet. So I don't really think it's safe to say that the mere belief that she is being guarded is enough to protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali from anyone looking to kill her.

On the other hand, if she actually does have an armed guard and a suicidal Muslim with a chip on his shoulder tries to harm her, then he's not going to get very far. (Hopefully.)" - gb comment #88740



"You call Theo Van Gogh "scum of the earth" but I refer you to the argument I believe has been made elsewhere on this website recently (by AC Grayling), which notes that although people such as Mohammad Bouyeri, the killer of Theo van Gogh, are actually taking people's lives in the name of their religion, all that people like Grayling himself, and RD, and Sam Harris, and yes Theo van Gogh, are doing is using words to make people think. Quite a difference." - gb comment #88740

http://www.acgrayling.com/


"I believe the matter being discussed on this thread was not the choice facing Ms. Ali: should she continue to live in the Netherlands? Your "framing" of the problem is inaccurate. Rather, we were discussing the ethical choice facing each of the individuals who frequent this website: one can choose to support Ms. Ali financially, and at the same time make something of a statement against those who would like to murder her. Or one can elect to leave the job of protecting Ms. Ali to others.

You have criticised me personally by asserting that I "know nothing" about the efforts made by people other than Ayaan Hirsi Ali to change Islamic societies. I have to tell you though, that it is you who "know nothing" - about me. For all you know I could have done quite a lot of reading on the subject. I could have lived and worked in Islamic countries. It is you who just doesn't know the first thing about me. Your ad hominem comments are based on your own ignorance, and can be disregarded on that basis. What is more, your comments are irrelevant. I may or may not be as familiar as you with the work done by other writers, but either way, that says nothing at all about whether the arguments I have put forward on this thread regarding Ayaan Hirsi Ali's security situation are any good. It just doesn't matter. On that basis too, your comments can be safely disregarded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

I am of course, pleased that there are many people working quietly away, doing their best to convince people currently in thrall to the Islamic religion that there is another, better way of living. That goes without saying. One writer I must mention to you is Ian Buruma, who can hardly be described as an avid fan of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. In his book "Murder in Amsterdam" he quotes Theo van Gogh as saying, "there are a hundred thousand decent Muslims, to whom the Dutch people should reach out." (Buruma, "Murder in Amsterdam", Atlantic, p. 108.) So perhaps the picture you paint of "the healthy smoker" is a bit too one-dimensional? Just a thought ..

In your newest post, you engage in another ad hominem attack when you call me a "shortsighted ultra-Islamophobe". As it happens, the first part of that is correct, in that I am myopic and wear specs. That hardly seems relevant to this discussion though. As to the latter: I'm not even sure I know what the word means. Perhaps you could supply a definition. If it means disagreeing with the beliefs of the people who want to kill Ayaan Hirsi Ali then I hold my hands up to that. So what? That's a good thing.

You say in your newest post that you "never said that you supported" Mohammad Bouyeri. You demand an apology! And yet, I did not say that you had said that you "supported" Mohmmad Bouyeri. What I actually said was that you appeared to be an apologist for that deeply unpleasant fellow, and if you care to quickly check the Cambridge online dictionary, you will see that an apologist is described as one who writes or speaks in defence of an unpopular set of beliefs (or political system). You have certainly written some insulting, perhaps one might even say "dehumanising" comments about Mohammad Bouyeri's victim, and about the person who he named in the death threat he pinned to his victim's body. Now, given that your remarks were made in the context of a discussion about whether Ms. Ali should be protected from people like Mohammad Bouyeri, I hope that you understand that one could legitimately take your remarks to mean that the world is better off without "scum" (your word) like Theo van Gogh, who is apparently guilty of what you call "crimes against humanity" i.e. insulting Muslims. That is how I took your remarks, hence my saying that you appeared to be defending the beliefs, and consequently the actions, of that appalling fellow, Mohammad Bouyeri. So I'm certainly not going to apologise for something which I did not say to you, but I am happy to explain to you why I said what I did in fact say. No problem, man. And of course, the remarks in your own posts, which I refer to here, are up there for all to see.

You do not seem to be a fan of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, which is fair enough. Not everyone's going to be. You seem particularly unhappy about her eleven minute movie, "Submission". It is my understanding that this was shown only once on Dutch TV (ibid., p. 184.) Get over it!

The thing is: one need not agree with what another person says in order to support the idea that they should be free to say it. Voltaire is often quoted on this topic, and although it is my understanding that the words one usually reads came from the pen of Evelyn Beatrice Hall (as she described Voltaire's attitude), Voltaire apparently did say in a letter that although he detested what his correspondent had written, he would give his life to make it possible for him to continue to write. No one here is being asked to go that far though: a couple clicks of a mouse, five minutes of your time, and you'll have to do without the next DVD you were going to buy. Hardly a huge sacrifice. But undoubtedly, a worthwhile cause." - gb comment #89084


Vinelectric,

You've said nothing new. So there's no need to write anything new.

gb.

194. Romney's Mormonism is fair game

Comment #90244 by GoatBoy36 on November 23, 2007 at 4:45 pm

hungarianelephant,

you're quite right, it's in Numbers:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2022:%2021-31;&version=51;

Funky stuff, eh?

gb

195. Romney's Mormonism is fair game

Comment #90135 by GoatBoy36 on November 23, 2007 at 6:19 am

tybowen,

Talking donkeys? That one's slipped my memory right now, I wonder if you could do me a favour and remind me about that one?

196. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89988 by GoatBoy36 on November 22, 2007 at 9:58 am

peace be upon you, peacebeuponme.

yours,

gb.

197. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89986 by GoatBoy36 on November 22, 2007 at 9:54 am

"This article was put up with a comment function. Therefore people will post their opinions." - PBUM

Exactly! You agree with what I'm saying then. Fine.

gb.

198. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89981 by GoatBoy36 on November 22, 2007 at 9:40 am

Oh come on everyone, stop crying about people making a judgment about your actions, you've got no basis whatsoever to greet about that. You yourselves are trying to blame, and to shame, others - can't you see that you're doing the very thing you're saying other people shouldn't be doing? For goodness sake - Ian was right earlier, what must Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Sam Harris - and Richard Dawkins, who we know has read this thread - think when they see what a bunch of self-centred whiners you all are? I really wouldn't think they'd be very impressed. Some of you people must really like the sound of your own voice - but here's a newsflash, the world doesn't revolve around any of you; the truth is that you are NOT at all important. There are people out there, Ayaan Hirsi Ali is one, in genuine danger from religious extremists, something which this website is against, and if you have forgotten that, just look at the name at the top of the page would you? So do us all a favour and try to put your whining into perspective. There IS a courageous young lassie out there who has spoken out against a vile and barbaric religious force on this earth, and has been told by practitioners of that same religion that she must die for doing so. And all you whiners want people reading this thread, which is about Ayaan Hirsi Ali, to feel sorry for *you*? Because (oh dearie me) some people have had the audacity to pass judgement on your choice not to contribute to Ayaan's security fund, and (more to the point) on the poor reasons that have been given for not doing so? Give me a break!

199. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89932 by GoatBoy36 on November 22, 2007 at 7:32 am

Keith & Ian,

Especially with honey, mmm ..

gb.

200. Romney's Mormonism is fair game

Comment #89796 by GoatBoy36 on November 21, 2007 at 5:57 pm

Secret Underpants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsXzHLiHTOU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9upYoCHyCv4

windweaver, I'm watching that youtube video just now, man that's freaking me out almost as much as reading the Old Testament.

walk, people don't often realise how harmful religion can be to young children, it certainly didn't do me any good when I was young. My family's broken up, one of my sibling's lives is in ruins, I've had some serious problems in my life myself, and religion is behind all that. I talked to another bloke who had been brought up, like me, in the "Brethren", & he told me that he'd been standing down the pier about to jump in one day. He couldn't take any more. This was while we were both in a local bar drinking serious amounts, I mean genuine alcohol abuse in a major way; addiction is another problem that rears its ugly head as one's brain tries to deal with fabulous tales on the one hand and reality on the other. The two just don't match up. I'm saddened but not too surprised that there's a high rate of suicide among young men and women in Utah. And I'm not being flippant here, but I think I'm right in saying that there are quite a few young women from Mormon familes who have ended up working in the American porn industry. I don't even want to think about how that came about. RD has spoken about religion being a kind of child abuse and you know something, he's not wrong, he's really not.

gb.