151. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198811 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 2:06 pm

Corylus,




I figured you were joking, my vituperation was also tongue in cheek.


Anyway, it hurts because my feet are Yeti like. Have you seen my family photo?:


http://internetservices.readingeagle.com/editor/archives/bigfoot-1.jpg

152. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198803 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:56 pm

sssssss,







You must mean Misyar. This is what some Sunnis hold as permissible.

153. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198800 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:54 pm

Sciros,






Well the touchy feely stuff is nice, and I used to subscribe to that when first began here, but now I don't have time for that. For instance let's say I see someone who is blatantly ignorant about a topic, yet speak as though they have authority.

"I am patient with stupidity, but not with those who are proud of it."

-Edith Sitwell

Wiser words have never been spoken. (Well not recently anyway).


I am with advocatus, I think you are being subtle in your reproach, insinuating such a person is "this" without having to cough up the evidence. I would like to see evidence of the existence of these "douchebag" posts. I am some what incredulous of your nebulous comment (can't help it, this damn incredulous brain of mine).

154. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198795 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:46 pm

Corylus,






Scrapping? You are the one who said I have "Yetti feet" after I made an innocent comment to you... then you went off on how I was some ass hole meat eater or something. But I forgive.

Anyhow, that is my point... priorities for women, worldwide. As for the glass ceiling, this has been mostly demolished and now women are beginning to excel in all parts of society. But there are plenty of women in politics, all over the world who now have the opportunity to begin to prioritize the women's rights issue. I hope they get that together... as hundreds of thousands of women are raped every year in the Congo. Perhaps we could dedicated some time to that?

155. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198786 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:29 pm

Sciros,





Name names.


And I don't feel bad eviscerating a bad idea, that is how ideas get stronger, weak ones are thrashed and discarded and new and better ideas emerge in their place. If people are rational then this can be done.

Lesson 1, Don't take things personally.

156. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198784 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:24 pm

Dhamma,




"V.I. Lenin"

157. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198777 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:16 pm

Phil,







It is directed at every feminist who complains about the "glass ceiling" (of course competency of women can never be the issue, must be someone else's fault... another discussion) while women are bought and sold in the Gulf countries, while women are stoned and flogged in Afghanistan and Pakistan, while women are burnt alive in South Asia.

And they worry about Title Fucking IX instead. It isn't about the rights of women, it is about getting a pound of flesh from the nearest man available.

158. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198775 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:13 pm

Sciros,






She was, no doubt, objecting to the people who question her rabid Zionism, and do so assertively.


This logic is shit:

Some Atheists are mean, therefore god.

159. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198767 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:02 pm

Ultrviolet,







"He did six months in Chino for exposing himself to an eight year old. Guy's a petterass".

160. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198759 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 12:55 pm

Fanusi,






I realized a while ago that feminists are about as useful as "poopy flavored lolly pops". You would think they would at least give two shits about 8 year old Yemeni girls who are forced into marriage then beaten... Fuck no, we need more college scholarships for women's badminton. Talk about ass backwards priorities.


Feminism is a lot more liberal sloganeering. It is something for college sophomores to make signs for and march around on campus. No real substance left.

161. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198757 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 12:52 pm

How about the mental midgit Tera Bat, who, because some atheists are mean, wants to go back to religion.



How about that for having your head up your ass. Your interpretation of reality is dependent on whether or not people are "mean". Holy shit folks. That kind of thinking belongs in a "place of worship"

162. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198746 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 12:30 pm

mordacious1,






It is a predominately Shi'a practice known as Mutta'. It is designed to stop "prostitution" when in fact it is precisely prostitution because there is a dowry involved, and it can be a contract as short as one day.

163. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198731 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 12:06 pm

black wolf,




I have never heard of any such night in Saudi Arabia. Perhaps you are thinking of the Shi'a practice of Mutt'a (temporary marriage).

Muhammad Asad (Auth. The Road to Mecca) recounts how he was in Saudi Arabia and a family sent him a bride and she turned out to be twelve years old, and he sent her home. Of course Asad was born an Austrian Jew named Weisz, and only converted to Islam while working as a reporter in the Middle East, so perhaps he retained some of that European humanism.

164. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198697 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 11:22 am

Fanusi,




Why is it then that nearly half of all Shoah survivors live in poverty in Israel?


So Bosnia being a state, not a problem for you? And one only for Bosnians, and one only for Croatians, and one only for Kosovars? Do you accept all of these.


And actually there were people who were doing something about the persecution of the Jews, including some Muslim Arabs in N. Africa.


And please don't skip over the Zionist collaboration with the Nazis, as well as 120,000 Jews serving in the German military. It isn't always as simple as you care to paint it. You really do take a simplistic approach to world issues. Beyond this issue.

165. Should We Rid The Mind of God? A Debate

Comment #198690 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 11:16 am

Steve,







I come to play golf, you come dressed in a pink bunny outfit with a cross bow.... I doubt we will have a good round of golf. Such is debating these IDiots.

166. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198681 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 11:10 am

Vaal,





At that point Muhammad was in his fifties. Aisha's father Abu Bakr objected to the marriage saying to Muhammad:

AB: "Are we not brothers" (you can't marry my daughter)
Mo: "We are brothers in Islam, therefore she is licit for me to marry".


Thus Muhammad got the consent to marry Aisha. She was one of quite a lot of wives, but was his favorite, and was early on tasked with washing semen stains from Muhammad's garmets.

167. Should We Rid The Mind of God? A Debate

Comment #198677 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 11:04 am

Tera Bat,





Teratornis had the humor chip removed at the factory.

168. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198663 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 10:54 am

Everyone should read Imam Khomeini's Tahrirvasiyoleh where he enumerates that is acceptable to perform sex acts with any girl who is no longer Radi'yya (breast feeding) as long as it is short of vaginal sex.


So you can marry a 1 year old, but you have to wait until she is 9 to screw her. Such a touching demarcation!

But if you read the story of A'isha, Muhammad would take baths with her and "fondle" her in the bath, and make her fondle him as well. So even before she was 9, she was essentially molested.

169. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198635 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 10:29 am

Tera,

I do object to the attempts of some ultra orthodox groups to impose religious law in Israel but they are the minority

And then:

That's been in place since the founding of the state. Personally it doesn't bother me, I'd want a Jewish ceremony anyways (not sure why but I do). In any case it has no affect on people of other faiths who live in Israel only Jews.

Hmmmmm

170. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198609 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 9:54 am

Tera Bat,

I do object to the attempts of some ultra orthodox groups to impose religious law in Israel but they are the minority.

What about this Rabbinical council that has official status and determines marriages and citizenship?

I agree that there are a lot of myths and legends in Judaism but it has very little dogma in it. Until you've studied the Talmud you can't begin to get an appreciation of how complicated Judaism actually is

One of the defining characteristics of narcissism is the belief that you are "special" and no one can really "understand you".


I guess we have solved this mystery.

171. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198602 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 9:40 am

Fanusi,


You are over simplifying the issue.

It is very, very easy to criticize when you are not surrounded by enemies who want you dead. But that situation is changing very rapidly for us in Europe. In one of the perverse twists of fate, we're all Israelis now.

Well Israel is bordered, to the north, by a country that is fighting to create a proper democracy, and is getting ready to fight Hezbollah. And the Israelis have pressured the US to refuse aid to the Lebanese government so it can do just that. And the US has tried to arm the Lebanese army to fight Hezbollah.


Israel has a peace treaty with Egypt and Jordan. It will not have trouble having a similar relationship (even more positive perhaps) with Lebanon. The Lebanese are turning on Hezbollah, and as long as Israel lets that go forward, there will be progress. Syria is ready for a peace treaty, but that is not a certainty.

I cannot accept Israel as a "western" country as long as there are certain "anti-democratic" aspects that are institutionalized. But I can consider them far closer to me than the Saudis.

172. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198598 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 9:34 am

Tera Bat,






And you still willfully ignore the other aspects of people "learned" in Judaism. The nasty comments, the racist remarks, the violence.

You can see that I have plenty of positive things to say about Israel and the potential for further positive change. It is a place filled with a people who are progressive and self critical. This is a characteristic that will IMPROVE Israeli society. Then there are dinosaurs like yourself, who, in the face of rational discourse, maintain a useless mentality.

No one debates the threat under which Israel lives and labors, but Israel does little to help itself in terms of garnering sympathy. And you are a perfect example... You are arrogant, acting like the aid America gives you is your due. You act as if Jews are this "Pure" force, unable to be wrong. You act as if the Arabs are a monolith to be feared and fought as a single unit.

These aren't things I think will be much use to the future of Israel.

Oh and I don't want to hear peep about the Holocaust when we discuss Israel, because Israel allows 40% of Shoah survivors to live below the poverty line, while continuing to receive massive payments from European countries. *Retch*

173. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198593 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 9:26 am

Advocatus,







Has it changed from the fifties? Yes quite a bit. In fact I would say that secularism increases as time passes, particularly there. It is hard to maintain religious communities in the face of an extremeley modern economy, one that continues to function on Saturday.

If you look at Israeli Universities you see a degree of criticism and liberalism that is above and beyond what takes place in the general public. For instance, at Berkeley, I had a visiting Israeli professor from Ben Gurion University named Oren Yiftochel. The topic was "Israel/Palestine". I was absolutely shocked, I was expecting a one sided diatribe on the evil Arabs, but instead I got a degree of intellectual honesty that was impressive. He was fair and balanced, and I wrote a paper on Deir Yassin, detailing the massacre and the level of knowledge going all the way to Ben Gurion (which is quite damning to the Israeli notion of "Purity of Arms") and he gave me a good grade, maybe because I threw in some comment on Deir Yassin being near Vad Yashem (a mere 1,400 meters away).

Anyhow, Ilan Pappe is also a fervent critic of Israeli policy, and an Israeli.

The criticism of Israeli is far more in depth inside Israel. It is here, in the US, where you see unquestioning allegiance to some crazy ideal. If you read Ha'aretz or the Jerusalem Post you see a lot of editorials that are not just critical of Israeli policy, but scathing. I think this is important. Add this to the fact that there is an exodus from Orthodoxy by the young, and you have a positive basis for change.

The problem in the Muslim world is that there is a flow towards some forms of extremism due to the impotency of current forms of government in the Middle East (Muslim). The humiliation of the Arab countries by a tiny Jewish nation is a problem for these governments. Islamism offers a source of pride and a way to save face. Thus I choose to acknowledge the positive trend in Israeli society while condemning the backward movement in Muslim polities... and the fact that these Muslims tout (loudly) their regression to the model of Ahl al-Salaf al-Salih does not help their case.

174. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198575 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 9:14 am

Tera Bat,



Oooops

From everything I've heard you say the answer is no. I'm not religious. I don't believe in god, but, I was raised religious, I learned the religion and I can tell you that you know and understand nothing about it. NOTHING in the Tanach is taken at face value by Judaism. Unless you have studied Judaism very carefully for YEARS, you have no understanding of it. And even after years of study you have a rudimentary basic understanding like I have. Judaism is not Islam and not Christianity. One of the major fundamental differences is that Judaism is not concerned with converting the whole world to Judaism.

Baruch Goldstein studied Judaism far more than you did, he went and shot 29 people in the name of Judaism. How about that Rabbi on the Rabbinical Council of Israel who said "A Jewish fingernail is worth more than 10,000 non-Jewish lives."


It seems to me that the more people "know" Judaism the meaner they are. Seems like your theory sucks.

175. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198555 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 8:46 am

Advocatus,

Agreed, but this does lead me to a random thought. Not anything to debate over but merely a curiousity. If Israel were to have its wet dream of annhialating everyone else in the region(no doubt with lots of blood and gore) what do you think would follow? I have a hard time seeing them just sitting there soaking up the rays. Again, not a debate, just curious as you are the more learned on the issue.

Well I think treating "Israel" as some entity with a united wish is a bit unfair. There are numerous opinions in Israel, the old saying holds "Ask 2 Jews, get 3 opinions." Most Israelis do not want a "bloody" expansion of the state into Arab lands. Most want a Palestinian state that is peaceful and is an economic partner. Some Israelis are whacky fucks who want to take over the "biblical Israel", but these are not the majority, not even close.


Most Israelis are strictly secular and thus don't care about expansion, but only safety in their current situation. I doubt that Israel would ever be strong enough to move on western countries, strictly in terms of man power. And Fanusi is right, most Israelis carry a European ethical and political tradition. Most Israelis are either themselves from Europe or a descended from people who spent hundreds of years in Europe.

Israelis have shown a great deal of friendship to Muslim nations that recognize them, such as Turkey and now even Egypt. I don't think there are enough Israelis with territorial ambitions to make a difference in policy. I personally think Israel should commit itself to total secularism and disband relgious parties, especially those with expansionist designs. And Israel HAS done this, they banned Meir Kahane from the Knesset, and then after his assassination they banned the party Kahane Chai (Kahane Lives). So this is a theme I would encourage.

I wouldn't say that Israel is necessarily "One of us", it does have its unsavory aspects (such as race based citizen laws, among others) but it is certainly a better bet than trying to talk to Hamas which only today finds itself in violation of the not even week old truce with Israel.

176. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198528 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 8:06 am

Advocatus,






The question I have to ask myself.... If one group in the Middle East was to have nuclear weapons, would I rather it be the Israelis or the Muslims. The answer is pretty simple.

Zionism is relatively harmless beyond this "patch of dirt". But Islamism has world wide aims, and is thus much more dangerous.

Zionists have not carried out a campaign of terror against Europe and the US, Islamists (terrorists) have. If Zionists care to antagonize these people, so be it. But Zionism is in no way the threat that Islam is, especially because Judaism doesn't seek to convert people or kill them.

177. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198513 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 7:24 am

advocatus,






The shit that really annoys me is this person's attitude, like we owe them or something. She tried to sell the notion that we are throwing knives into their backs... when I ask how, she cites the fact that we asked them not to attack Iraq while we were in the middle of bombing it. I mean, can she not see the obvious reasons there... I guess not.

Israelis act like the money will always be there, and that they can say and do whatever they want. The hubris displayed here is simply unmatched. In a war between Islamism and Zionism I am grudingly able to support a Zionist state, but they sure as hell don't make it easy on me.

178. Blind Faiths

Comment #198506 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 7:01 am

Tera Bat,




Once again I am going to have to explain Israeli politics and Judaism to you, I might start charging for the service.

The religious Jews never tried to return to Israel because they believe god will do it for them. Most of the Ultra Orthodox Jews think the State of Israel is an abomination.

This is ridiculous. The Neturei Karta believe Israel is an abomination, and these are few in number (very few, only about a dozen or so show up to protest Israel in the US, and maybe 100 inside Israel).


Some other Haredi groups opposed to Zionims:


Edah HaChereidis

And subsidiary groups:

-Satmar
-Dushinky

There is no uinified Haredi voice on Israel. And many live in Israel. Some refuse to vote, some refuse to accept money from the govt., some serve in the military, some actively protest, some don't.

And don't forget 1/3 of Israelis consider the Haredis the most hated group in Israel.


It is really interesting how you say these Haredis refuse to return to Israel, yet there are a whole lot of Haredis in Israel. That math doesn't work.

179. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198504 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 6:52 am

Fanusi,

What about the genocide in East Timor?

Ooooh not a good approach. You do realize that this wasn't an issue of "Islam". First of all Catholic Indonesian soldiers participated, and Kissinger and Ford expressly approved the invasion, and as you well know Suharto didn't do this for religious reasons. Just like the 1 million people who died during Suharto's purges of Communists, once again supported by the United States. And where did Indonesia get the weapons? That's right, the US.


So while I agree that there is an overall campaign of violence by Muslims, there is no way you can blame East Timor on that wave.

180. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198503 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 6:48 am

Tera Bat,

So Vin says Jews are always at fault, you say never. What invaluable contributions.

Pay attention al. I was responding to advotecus.

You dishonest toad, just put "Advocatus" in place of Vin, and stick it in your pipe and smoke it. The point was that you accuse people of whitewashing, but you are the queen whitewasher.


Pot-Kettle.

181. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198502 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 6:46 am

Tera Bat,

A few facts you may not be aware of.

You possess no facts regarding Israel or the Middle East that I am not already aware of. But let's play anyway.

During the first gulf war when the scuds were falling on us, the US asked us not to do anything and just take it. We did it and you have no idea how hard it was, but, we did it anyways. Shamir was very heavily critisized. Our men are not used to sitting around and doing nothing while bombs are falling on their women and children. The tension in the country was palpable. But there were no riots, no attacks, no terror.

How many Israelis were killed in these attacks?


Why didn't America want Israel involved? BECAUSE IT WOULD SPREAD THE CONFLICT. You really have zero clue about how shit works, I mean absolutely Zero. If Israel had attacked Iraq it would have had to use Jordanian airspace and possibly that of other countries. Syria may have been drawn in, we don't know. The United States saved Israeli lives by insisting on inaction.

And I didn't even get a thank you for the fucking money I send to your country, it can be in writing here, you don't have to send me a card. In anticipation I will say "You're welcome for the billions and billions of dollars".

The US gives plenty of money to the Palestinians too

Next to none in comparison, a few tens of millions, and only to the PA which recognizes Israel's right to exist. So don't fucking pull your dishonest comparisons... as soon as I start getting more sympathetic to Israel, I have a conversation with an Israeli. No good deed goes unpunished.

The Yishuv fought in WWII. They volunteered to the British Army and the "Jewish Brigade" was formed and was sent to north Africa to fight the Italians. The Arabs supported the Germans.

Something I might not know? Ha, you are an idiot. There is nothing you are going to tell me about Israeli history I don't already know. I am well aware of the Jewish brigades, and their reconstitution to hunt down Nazis after the war. I am also well aware that some Arab nations supported the Germans. You are going to have to do better than 1st year Middle Eastern history to surprise me.

I have dual citizenship. My parents, brothers, nieces and nephews, most of my aunts uncles and cousins all have dual citizenship. Israel has never underminded the US. You cant say the same about the Muslims, including Palestinians.

Jonathan Pollard, look him up. US Naval officer caught spying for Israel. This was known at the upper levels of the Israeli government, and approved. He was tried and convicted of treason. Personally I think he should have been hung, but I wasn't on the jury.

The Mossad warned the CIA before 9/11 that a big attack on the USA was in the works. We were as horrified as the USA when it happened.

Really? What Israeli politician was it that said "Now the US knows how we feel". Such compassion for the Goyim, I am touched, as touched as a filthy goy can be, anyhow.

182. Blind Faiths

Comment #198494 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 6:26 am

advocatus,







Well I think his exposure of the Israeli nuclear program was really just stating the obvious, but it was brave anyhow. But as a point of law, he violated Israeli law, and for that he is imprisoned, and I don't see a problem with that. I don't like the fact that he became a Christian, which seems a bit strange, and of course annoying.


It looks like you have caught Tera Bat trying to monopolize suffering. Wasn't it Jews who tried to keep the Armenian exhibit OUT of the Museum of Tolerance? You would think after 2,000 years of terrible suffering they would have developed a little more compassion. But I notice, whenever suffering gets tied in with money, things get a little unusual.

As for people being thrown off their land, this has happened numerous times since the Jews were evicted from Palestine. The funny thing is most people move on and attempt to deal with the new situation. However Jews maintained a RELIGIOUS link to the land for 2,000 years, and then so-called "atheists" like Tera Bat pretend like this is some kind of secular Jewish goal.

The Israelis always complain; "Palestinians have been refugees for 50 years, when will they give it up." My response is "Jews claimed refugee status for 2,000 years, so the Arabs have about 1,950 years to go."

183. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198484 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 6:02 am

Tera,

As usual only the Jews are at fault.

So Vin says Jews are always at fault, you say never. What invaluable contributions.

184. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198481 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 5:52 am

Tera Bat,

So you want us to do the dirty work for you while you stab us in the back?

Who is you? You better not be talking about Americans. If you were speaking about America keep reading....


How fucking dare you say something that fucking stupid. $5 billion every year my country sends in tax money paid by our citizens, so you can keep your fucking Bantustans. Close to $10 billion every year in total aid. Military deals, technology deals, intelligence sharing,... All this after Israel has exploited our relationship to spy on us (Jonathan Pollard), Israel has attacked a US Navy ship and strafed survivors floating in the water (USS Liberty).

I hope you were not speaking about the United States.



As for Israel attacking Iran. I wouldn't push that idea too hard, Iran is not a pushover. These people invented chess, they are not stupid. Don't let dinnerjacket fool you, Iran is strong enough to make your life in Israel fucking miserable. The Shahab 3 can reach Israel, Iran won't spare anyone if they are attacked.

185. Teen's death blamed on faith healing

Comment #198308 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 2:36 pm

huzonfirst,

Outrages like this make a strong case for vigilante justice. Whenever governments become ineffective the people eventually take the law into their own hands out of sheer necessity (the fact that these groups easily turn into criminal gangs themselves does not negate the initial need for them).

A mass necktie party for every "adult" member of this death cult would certainly get people's attention, possibly even to the point of doing something about this crap! Meanwhile, of course, Oprah will be "praying for their souls..."

They are already killing each other, so why do we want to step in and waste the bullets? There will always be a doltish section of society... in the words of Judge Smails "The world needs ditch diggers too".

186. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #198244 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 12:37 pm

You tell them tp, Krishna be praised

Krishna?



Hey, you leave me the hell alone at the airport from now on. Just take your bell and drum parades somewhere else.

187. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198207 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 11:24 am

Barry,

I am aware of various concepts that avoid having the "reinvent the wheel" each time, such as Ijma and Qiyas. In fact, I refered to those on my "Paternity testing and Islam" page. In view of what you say, I wonder if they are primarily Sunni rather than Shi'a concepts?

Logical syllogism (Qiyas) is employed universally, as it is defined somewhat loosely. But as a fact, Shi'a students at Qom study Aristotelian logic (Ar. Mantiq, Pers. Mantig) as the first level of study, in preparation for use in reasoning such things.


Ijma' has largely been a Sunni phenomenon. But the question of Ijma'a becomes difficult when some apply it to the pious forebearers (Ahl al-salaf al-Salih). But Shi'a would reject this, as they reject the whole legitimacy of the first three Caliphs.


Something I think you should mention, as it would be a service to the readers, is the result of the mihna:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihna


The Wiki page is an acceptable reference point. But the long and the short of the mihna was that Sunni rationalists lost out to Sunni literalists. The Shi'a are still perplexed as to how this could possibly happen, mostly because they view 'Aql as superior to naql (see below). But the Asharis defeated the Mu'atazila (how this happened I don't know). Thus literalism and tradition has remained the dominating factor in Sunni Islam.


For instance, the Shi'a place heavy emphasis on 'Aql (intellect) while Sunnis prefer Naql (literalism, or 'adherence to revelation'). This is the manifest difference between the two, and explains why Sunnis are constantly struggling to make their faith comprehensible. The Shi'a had a similar debate between Akhbaris and Usulis, but the Akhbaris won out, along with the "intellect".


So my new shtick is that we must really be sure to demarcate between Sunni and Shi'a, as there are very important differences, and policy and thought should reflect this.

188. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198193 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 10:46 am

Fanusi,





I assume you are referring to my comment about Ijtihad. I was just pointing out the fact that Barry was presenting a general critique of Islam, and I was helping point out where he could be more specific and more accurate.

To be fair to "spiritual" Islam, I would have to say the greater portion of the Muslims I know are really only spiritual and not many seek the implementation of a state. I assume this may be very different in other parts of the US and in Europe.

189. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198191 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 10:38 am

elephant,






That's a good definition. Islamism should be prosecuted as treason... perhaps.

190. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198182 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 10:19 am

Phil,






Fine by me, I am not one of the squeamish liberals, soiled with moral relativism, so I am happy to help others.


But we encounter another problem, how do we get people to wake the hell up and pay attention to what is going on. I don't know how it is in England, do people ignore the problem?

191. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198175 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 10:04 am

Phil,





Very well.


But I am afraid that the sophistry from Muslims will continue. There will be no intellectual victory anytime soon, meaning Muslims won't ever concede any point, ever.

192. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198155 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 9:35 am

Phil,







Here is the problem with "Islamism"... Define it!


No one has advanced a definition, no one knows what it means, and everyone seems scared of it. It makes one look bad when one names a boogeyman, but then cannot define or describe it.

193. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198133 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 9:10 am

Barry,






I am reading your page now. There are several errors.

The first: "No central authority"

-You are lumping Sunni Islam with Shi'a. The Shi'a have a concept known as Taqlid (imitation, or reliance on past tradition). This is a system where the individual believer must choose a Marja' to be his Marja'a i-taqlid. The Zakat is paid to this Marja'a along with the Shi'a specific tax known as the Khums. The Marja'a must be a recognized scholar (like Khomeini, Khatami, Khamanei, Sistani, Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr, etc...). Most of these people will have studied Islam and other topics in Qom, Iran. In this sense there is a degree of centralization in Shi'a Islam. However this is also region specific, namely Lebanese Muslims will have a slightly different system. The Shi'a centers of learning (where power is centralized) are Qom and Najaf.


2) "Mediaeval Arabic Script":

- The Arabic language has no seperate script for this period, and it has remained in similar form for most of its short life. The only difference one sees is that much of the Qur'an was written without the small vowels that reside above and below the script. This is problematic as they change meaning (for instance placing a verb in the passive voice). Thus all the i'rab (vowelling) is added later and was subject to the interpretation of context of the person placing these vowels in the text.

3) "Reform Movements":

- Your assumption here is that "reform" means toward a more western understanding of the world. Wahhabism, Deobandism, Salafism, and other "fundamentalist" movements, all came as "reforms" of the faith.


4) "Islam requires Interpretation":

- A difficult concept, in that Ijtihad (interpretation) is a term used differently all over. For instance Sunnis who follow one of the four main schools of Jurisprudence (Shafi'i, Hanafi, Maliki, Hanbali) consider the "door of Ijtihad" to be closed, thus shut by the founders of the school. They rely on manuals of law written by the eponyms of these schools. Wahhabis say that Ijtihad is to be performed by every believer, and Taqlid (reliance on past opinion) is unacceptable. While Shi'a allow the Marja' i-Taqlid to perform Ijtihad and pass on interpretations to their followers.


Just some thoughts.

194. Award-winning comedian George Carlin dies

Comment #198103 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 8:01 am

Why couldn't Dane Cook die instead?

195. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198091 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 7:32 am

Steve,






Most journalists don't have the specialized knowledge to deal with esoteric topics. It isn't a conspiracy, it is intellectual limitation.



"Never attribute to malice what you can account for with stupidity."

196. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198089 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 7:29 am

Fanusi (and others should read this),

How many newspapers acknowledge the extent of the problem? Which ones are willing to mention words like 'taqqiya' or 'hudna', all of which are essential to understanding Islamic tactics? Where is the outrage over the stuff found in the documentary 'undercover Mosque'?

Hudna is an important term and brings us to an important point.... linguistics. There is a great deal of difference between Arabic and other languages. Hudna means peace or ceasefire, in Arabic (as in Islamic Law) this is only contingent on the Muslims rearming. Thus such a ceasefire is only acceptable to Muslims as long as they are regaining strength, once this occurs they are no longer bound by the treaty.

So you may ask, what is another term? Peace? Not much better as the term "peace" in Arabic (Salaam) is derived from the tri-literal root that denotes "submission", and this same root gives us Islam, meaning submission. Thus peace is something arrived at when one side "submits" not when a mutual agreement is reached. In Arabic (and Arabs think in Arabic) the language is limited in these concepts. Not that Arabs can't grasp them, but rather that their language doesn't have terms to denote these ideas.

The language of the Qur'an is often lost in translation... and I agree with Muslims when they say it must be read in Arabic. To get the true nastiness one must read it in Arabic, because the translations are often fluffed with niceties nowhere to be found in the original.

And you will never find this discussed in the media in any country, even the "racist" United States. And the left in Europe haven't even figured out what all this means, let alone sought to do anything about it. The threat is evolving, the solutions are not... this is a problem.

197. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198080 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 7:02 am

Fanusi,







I remember this guy who converted, but I cannot remember his name. He was able to remain an anti-semite, no doubt a selling point in the recruitment process.

There is a good point, that fascists and Islamists have a great deal in common.

198. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198070 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 6:43 am

Phil,






That is a good thought, but ultimately useless.

It isn't about hanging racists out to dry, it is about showing these societal vandals (Islamists) that all speech is protected. Their stupid child molesting prophet's words are protected, as is the criticism of this person. You don't need to prove your tolerance bona fides to those who would not blink in having you flogged or beheaded, it is about showing them that in this country we don't bend our values to suit 7th century ideologies, and if you don't like it, here is your plane ticket.


You must prosecute those that violate civil rights, for instance, a racist who firebombs a mosque, or a home. However, what we are talking about here is speech. Speech should always be protected, even racist speech. Once racist speech is no longer protected, you get the litigious outpouring that is being seen in Canada and Europe.

For instance, I had to deal with a flood of responses when I defended THE RIGHT of the Dutch cartoonists to express themselves... The theme of the vituperations was "these are just like cartoons about Jews in the 1930'2 and 1940's." This is manifestly ridiculous, but you can see what would happen if they made the case that it is somehow racist. And you can thank the left, once again, for aiding and abetting fascists. They are aiding the Muslim fascists by allowing them to suppress legitimate criticisms (and even illegitimate critism should be protected) of them. And they are aiding the future rise of anti-immigrant fascism, which will arise once people grow weary of unintegrated minority groups instituting shariah patrols on European streets.







Steve,



I don't mean to be rude, but the left is unable to come up with solutions to a very real problem. All speech must be protected, saving that which calls people to violence.

199. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198063 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 6:26 am

Steve,






I second fanusi here, if we don't deal with the problem, it will empower fascists later on.

200. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198060 by al-rawandi on June 23, 2008 at 6:09 am

Steve,





How do tell them apart? I get called a racist all the time by Muslims, despite the fact that I inform them that Islam is not a race.

If we let Muslims have a say in this, they will simply use "racist" to brand all critics, because we have seen that they will descend to any level of dishonesty to defend the perverse faith. So is it better to tolerate a faith that would have you beheaded, or tolerate a few racists who (by total accident) happen to be criticizing this perverse faith, even if for the wrong reasons?