151. PZ Myers - Science and Atheism in the Blogosphere

Comment #197162 by rod-the-farmer on June 21, 2008 at 9:02 am

The Richard Dawkins Foundation web site has Richard asking for volunteers to pick up some of the invitations he receives for debates. He gets far too many to respond to them all. So, over to you Steve. I would be happy to do some myself, but my scientific background is nowhere near as impressive as yours, or many others. I think I could be described as moderately well-read in a several areas of science, but I might do more harm than good. What I offer is some passion for the subject, extensive experience in public speaking on four continents, plus (brags here) I am one of the minor contributors to the BBC "Have Your Say" program. They have called me four times in the past year and a bit, to appear on their radio show. I am, in their words, 'articulate and thoughtful', and a Canadian. That, and a dollar, will get you a coffee or a tea in the local shops. Could have knocked me over with a feather the first time they called. My sisters' response was "Of COURSE you have an opinion, you're a {insert family name here}."

152. Should Strident British Atheist Richard Dawkins Dictate Education Policy to US States? Barbara Forrest Apparently Thinks So

Comment #197095 by rod-the-farmer on June 21, 2008 at 4:37 am

Has anyone found a way to post a comment on the Discovery Institute site ? They have a lot of articles about this Louisiana thing, but I was not able to find a way to post a question.

My question will be quite simple, so I want to see if they will allow it.

What exactly are the "strengths" of the Darwin theory of evolution that the Discovery Institute would support being taught ?

153. Science teacher dissed evolution

Comment #197084 by rod-the-farmer on June 21, 2008 at 4:14 am

The Columbus Ohio newspaper has a blog where people can submit their feelings on this teacher and his actions. The very first to respond was supportive of him teaching creationism. After that there were a great many who responded to that first post, almost all of them sounding like they would be fans of this site. Ohio MAY be a bit in the bible belt, but there are a lot of rational secularists who took the time to post comments.

http://blog.dispatch.com/edblog/2008/06/science_vs_religion.shtml

154. Science teacher dissed evolution

Comment #196975 by rod-the-farmer on June 20, 2008 at 7:37 pm

I think we should forward this to Ben Stein. Seriously. He can point to it as an example of a teacher who preached against evolution, and in favour of creationism, then was fired. Then we whack the listener with the side comment....."Of course, he was also burning crosses on the arms of students". Should this be added to the web sites that rebut the Expelled movie ? Sort of a pre-emptive strike ?

All together now....We could not make this stuff up.....

155. Science teacher dissed evolution

Comment #196794 by rod-the-farmer on June 20, 2008 at 12:49 pm

Further links on the newspaper web site....You HAVE to read this. I defer to the Irate Atheist for a word to describe this nut.

http://www.dispatch.com/wwwexportcontent/sites/dispatch/local_news/stories/2008/06/19/Freshwater.pdf

156. Science teacher dissed evolution

Comment #196781 by rod-the-farmer on June 20, 2008 at 12:35 pm

One the Columbus, Ohio newspaper web site I found this

http://www.dispatch.com/wwwexportcontent/sites/dispatch/local_news/stories/2008/04/22/2006_complaint.pdf

a copy of the letter sent to the teacher in question, back in mid-2006, investigating his use of non-standard material in his classroom. He was cautioned to stick to the official curriculum.

Stick a fork in him, he's done.

157. Science teacher dissed evolution

Comment #196769 by rod-the-farmer on June 20, 2008 at 12:26 pm

I agree with SonOfSLJ

"With the exception of the cross-burning episode. … I believe John Freshwater is teaching the values of the parents in the Mount Vernon school district," he said.

You cannot separate your value system from your teaching.

158. We Urgently Need Your Help Now!!

Comment #196667 by rod-the-farmer on June 20, 2008 at 10:08 am

Re Comment #196548 by Barry Pearson

I watched the 3 part video on YouTube with the interview with the two gentlemen who wrote a book trying to answer points in "The God Delusion". They DO admire his writing style, his language, and his passion for the subject. But consider him perhaps a bit supercilious. Again they raised the use of the word "brights". Hopefully, I thought they would mention/raise a point or two I might find interesting. Nope. The closest they came to something from their book was this business about the statue of the virgin mary waving at Richard. Apparently the idea that the molecules could re-arrange themselves to cause the arm to wave, is so ridiculous that IF the arm waved....wait for it...god must exist. Working through the angel Animatronicus, I suppose. Oh well. That wasted several minutes of my time, but it DID save me the money I would have spent if I had bought their book. Which I wouldn't have, anyway. If you can't list some of the points IN your book, but spend all three videos talking about WHY you wrote it, you may have a weak case. But the two authors did sound a bit panicky at the damage done to the faith of believers, once they had read TGD.

What WOULD they think if they heard Christopher Hitchens !

159. We Urgently Need Your Help Now!!

Comment #196637 by rod-the-farmer on June 20, 2008 at 9:15 am

Re Comment #196521 by Tyler Durden

Comment #196181 by rod-the-farmer

Superb! Kudos.

Note to self: never piss off rod-the-farmer :)

160. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196506 by rod-the-farmer on June 20, 2008 at 4:28 am

Response to the comment by Corylus

You can be an Atheist and a religious scholar at the same time.

161. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196458 by rod-the-farmer on June 20, 2008 at 2:19 am

I await with bated breath the definition of a "religious scholar". No matter how hard they try to silence us, someone with no fear of religion will stand up (I hope) and challenge these guys on FGM. I suggest that anyone who does not meet the qualifications for such a position should be allowed to vote on what those qualifications are. Now THAT should tie them up in knots for a while.

And if not, then it will open the door to rational people.

162. Is the Universe Actually Made of Math?

Comment #196199 by rod-the-farmer on June 19, 2008 at 12:55 pm

This is what happens when you put physicists and alcohol together.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/81336

163. We Urgently Need Your Help Now!!

Comment #196181 by rod-the-farmer on June 19, 2008 at 12:12 pm

Here is my letter to Gov. Jindal

Although I am not a resident of your state, I am sorry to read you plan to approve the SB733 bill. I have heard you speak about the need for high quality education for the children of Louisiana. Introducing religion into science classes is the LAST thing you want to do. If you are already seeing a brain-drain of young, highly educated people from the state, this will only accentuate this problem, plus, it will stop people from COMING to LA to be educated. Many families will simply not move there, for lack of the teaching of good science. Bronze age myths have no place in a science classroom. As for "teaching the controversy" ? There is none, except in the minds of religious fringe people who have no education on the subject of evolution in the first place. Almost none of them have even read Darwins book "On the Origin of Species". They have just been told by their preachers that it contradicts Genesis, so it MUST be wrong.

Passing this bill will cause a number of things to happen:

(1) Louisiana will become the laughing stock of the western world. You will be blamed. You may well become a one-term Governor remembered only for this.

(2) The state will be sued by parents, just like the Dover PA School Board was. The Constitution is quite clear on this subject. And once again, the state will lose, with substantial costs awarded to the plaintiffs. Again, you will be blamed. There even may be calls to impeach you for approving a bill that is counter to the U.S. Constitution.

(3) I will personally contact as many of the large corporations as I can find, who have offices in your state. I will advise them in writing that I will not purchase any of their products or services, that I will not travel to LA, nor will I permit my friends & family to go there without a long lecture on traveling back to the middle ages. I will ensure they understand it is solely because of SB733, and that you approved it..

You are supposed to be an educated man. I can't imagine you made it as far as a university degree in biology without seeing the flaws in the arguments against evolution. It is not a theory, it is a fact. Only the religious nuts can't accept this.

Respectfully,

164. Charles Darwin: 'Is man an ape or an angel?'

Comment #195613 by rod-the-farmer on June 18, 2008 at 3:53 pm

Could NOT get this to play more than the first few seconds. Downloaded it eventually, then just LISTENED to it. Video makes it too choppy for me.

165. Darwinmania!

Comment #195337 by rod-the-farmer on June 18, 2008 at 4:40 am

Re 8. Comment #195331 by Animavore

I think the reason some wish to celebrate Darwin is that his work has helped us define what we are. A-theists. Pasteur et al. did not have anywhere NEAR the effect on our view of the world. Pretty much single-handedly Darwin disposed of the need for religion. All the graphs I have seen indicate that loss of faith around the world took a huge jump with the publication of "Origins". It allowed the common man to read for himself how Darwin came to his conclusion of natural selection. In addition to all this is the growth of the right-wing fundie political pressure groups in the U.S. The celebration is in large part a response to this.

A good challenge to evolution deniers is to ask if they have read "Origins".

166. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195296 by rod-the-farmer on June 18, 2008 at 3:05 am

Re Comment #195216 by mordacious1 on June 17, 2008

Loke

Welcome to the club!

I hope you will consider being a frequent poster. We need more input on the physics articles, especially, but your insight from being a convert would be interesting too.

167. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195004 by rod-the-farmer on June 17, 2008 at 2:19 pm

One down, 2 billion to go. And another vote for the sometimes abrasive & arrogant Christopher Hitchens. His way DOES work, sometimes.

168. Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God'

Comment #194996 by rod-the-farmer on June 17, 2008 at 2:04 pm

You might find this interesting reading, about polls done in the U.S> about religiosity.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/us_rel1.htm

169. Rapture site sends unbelievers their last chance ... via email

Comment #194794 by rod-the-farmer on June 17, 2008 at 9:31 am

Just for fun I clicked on the link provided above

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology

and did a quick scan. I must admit I had not dug deeply into the meaning of the word before. Wow. The explanation, and the terms used to describe the various thinking on this subject, caused me to shake my head. There is an ENTIRE world of bafflegab out there, on this sort of thing. No wonder people can get a PHD in religion. There is so much to know, about so little. There are more words linking to subsets of belief than I could count. Gadzooks. Good for chuckles all afternoon. Ah well, time for a bit of lunch.

170. Rapture site sends unbelievers their last chance ... via email

Comment #194743 by rod-the-farmer on June 17, 2008 at 8:20 am

My companion offer is that for $5, I offer MY email address, as one who should be notified if the rapture comes. I will set up a special address just for this purpose, and I PROMISE not to check it until I hear the advance warning signal. Whatever that is.

And for $10, I will provide my home or cell phone number (have not yet decided) so I can be advised INSTANTLY. No waiting for me to logon.

171. Vatican bans Dan Brown film Angels & Demons from Rome churches

Comment #193957 by rod-the-farmer on June 16, 2008 at 8:41 am

I liked the Da Vinci Code book a lot. I am not expert enough on all the stuff true fundies say were errors, but it was a great read anyway. As for Angels & Demons, if the church is opposed, I am all for it, and will buy the book first chance I get.

Shooting scenes ? Too bad they started filming already. Wait a few years, and you will be able to buy one of those ornate churches, for lack of a congregation.

172. Diamonds unlock secrets of early Earth

Comment #193762 by rod-the-farmer on June 16, 2008 at 2:48 am

I happened upon this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL_MtKNZdsI&NR=1

and wondered if there is anything available to counter the assertion that these radiohaloes "prove" the earth is very young ?

EDIT

OK, I found this after some googling.

http://gondwanaresearch.com/rate.htm

173. Physicists in Congress Calculate Their Influence

Comment #193761 by rod-the-farmer on June 16, 2008 at 2:44 am

Well, I am seriously considering running for public office in my county next elections. I probably won't find any major science initiatives coming up for a vote, but hey, a small start by a science enthusiast.

174. Breaking the Silence

Comment #193441 by rod-the-farmer on June 15, 2008 at 3:48 pm

Can someone dig up links to the debates she had ? They sound exciting. Is there some way we can support her in her struggle to bring the light of truth to her listeners ? Is there no police work being done to track down those who threaten her by email and phone ?

175. Only a Theory

Comment #193437 by rod-the-farmer on June 15, 2008 at 3:41 pm

I like the idea the fundies propose, to teach the "strengths & weaknesses". I would then force them to lay out EXACTLY the curriculum points for each, in particular the strengths of evolution. I think we can all guess the weaknesses they suggest, but if THEY want to teach the strengths, please let us have them, in writing. Both sides now, as the song said. I find it helps a great deal to pin them down, when they offer vague ideas. Show us in writing what you mean.

176. Behe's Empty Box

Comment #193228 by rod-the-farmer on June 15, 2008 at 2:39 am

I tried the creationwiki web site, and it is down. There is, however, one link that works. "Locations of visitors to this page

http://www3.clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://creationwiki.org

which is rather telling in that the bulk of the people are from the U.S., despite there being versions in other languages, according to the main page.

177. From Big Bang to Us - Made Easy

Comment #192870 by rod-the-farmer on June 14, 2008 at 5:16 am

I am not so much worried about offending fundies. What I DO think is that a regular public school might choose not to show it at all, just as they would probably choose not to show a creationism video. There is a strong anti-religion tone to this, that could, IMHO, be safely eliminated without taking away from the science message. You get more flies with honey. We need to hear from anyone who HAS shown these at a school, and the reactions of students, colleagues, parents, school board etc.

178. As the world becomes smaller, the need to understand each other's faith grows

Comment #192834 by rod-the-farmer on June 14, 2008 at 3:00 am

Good grief. What bafflegab. And this guy was in charge ? Did he display this sort of nonsense when running for office ? The reason religion is such a problem today, and has NOT died out by now, is that improvements in health care has allowed the birthrate to climb dramatically in parts of the world where education is not provided to the children. Thus they grow up inculcated in the religion of their parents, rather than the education thereof. If we truly want to eradicate religion, or at least minimise the effects, we have to teach children to think rationally. THAT is why the fundies of all flavours want to control the schools. They understand full well if you keep women ignorant, they remain as baby factories, and the boys become inflexible men. Allow just a tiny bit of real science to enter young minds, and your control slips away.

179. Scientists confirm that parts of earliest genetic material may have come from the stars

Comment #192827 by rod-the-farmer on June 14, 2008 at 2:44 am

I tried to open the full article, but you have to be a member of Science Direct, or, pay $13.50. But it certainly looks like they have more details on which carbon isotopes are involved. Perhaps someone more educated in chemistry than I can get a copy and report the details.

180. Kerry O'Brien's exclusive interview with the Dalai Lama

Comment #192821 by rod-the-farmer on June 14, 2008 at 2:38 am

I've never seen/heard a good explanation as to why China invaded Tibet in the first place. I see the Dalai Lama as mostly harmless. They don't seem to actively solicit new members, like the LDS and their annoying door-knocking campaign. Nor do we hear much about offensive practices against their own members or non-members, unless provoked by actions against them. But I do not consider myself well-read on the subject.

181. From Big Bang to Us - Made Easy

Comment #192629 by rod-the-farmer on June 13, 2008 at 5:35 pm

Re Comment #192596 by ashridah

I'd be a little careful about presenting this in a class. It's highly critical of religion, and that might be seen as a bias against religion.

182. Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God'

Comment #192444 by rod-the-farmer on June 13, 2008 at 4:34 am

Yet another thought. When they tested for religiosity among members of the Royal Academy, I wonder if they also tested for members of non-scientific groups, like artists, or the electricians union, or athletic groups ? Someone where the specific mission of the group is not to investigate & promote science. It may be that the members have some education in science, but that is not the focus of their group. It would be interesting to compare the results, if they are even available. One can imagine a sliding scale of religiosity, with the Royal Academy at the top, or bottom if you prefer, and other groups getting worse (or better) until at the far end you reach parish priests, perhaps, or societies who welcome immigrants from strongly muslim countries.

183. Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God'

Comment #192399 by rod-the-farmer on June 13, 2008 at 1:49 am

Re Comment #192269 by Steve Zara
Steve, I tried clicking on the link to the debate with Bronn, and it does open, but when I try to read HIS opening statement, it jumps in a second or so to his closing statement. Do you have access to fixing this ? I want to read the entire thing in sequence.

184. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #192281 by rod-the-farmer on June 12, 2008 at 4:33 pm

Great stuff.

185. Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God'

Comment #192188 by rod-the-farmer on June 12, 2008 at 2:30 pm

Thank dog for cut-&-paste-before-submit, otherwise I would have lost another comment.


Re-reading my own comment, I had another thought. How would/could you test for high IQ in a country which does not educate its own citizens well ? Is it not a premise of IQ testing that the individuals being tested have had some sort of minimal education ? I suspect there is some sort of cultural bias in the test itself, that would discriminate against say, a reindeer herder from Mongolia.

Cringe on.........are there statistics on the IQ in islamic countries where some segments of the population (e.g.....women in Afghanistan) are sometimes denied an education ? And those women who DO receive an education, apparently are not tested on subjects other than the koran. It is probably safe to assume that IQ levels in islamic countries have a "bell curve" similar to those in Japan, China and western countries, But is the peak at the same level ? I mean, if the purpose of islamic education is to recite the koran from memory, does that affect your IQ ?

cringe off

186. Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God'

Comment #192143 by rod-the-farmer on June 12, 2008 at 1:42 pm

I too am not sure the relationship with IQ is entirely true. I suspect it is a broader question than that. I think it is more EDUCATION that pushes people towards disbelief in god. After all, there HAVE to be a great many people in profoundly religious countries (e.g. some of the islamic ones) who have a naturally high IQ. But if they are denied a chance for a broad education in the sciences, what chance do they have to seriously consider the beliefs in which they were raised ? You need to be trained to question critically, and to use rational thought, before you can truly have any internal debate on the truth of religious beliefs. Why would you even question your beliefs, unless you had heard about the growth & history of science, and people like Galileo, Copernicus, Pasteur et al. Without examples from history, it would take a very special person indeed to discard their religion. A high IQ can easily be present in an ignorant person. To get the full potential in ANY field, from him/her, you need an education. And even those with average or slightly less IQ can be educated enough to make a personal decision about religious beliefs and any others they may have been "issued" by their social structure. Education is the key here.

187. Report: Troubling texts at Va. Islamic school

Comment #192123 by rod-the-farmer on June 12, 2008 at 1:26 pm

"I would be less than frank if I didn't tell you that the curriculum does contain references to the Quran, which, if taken out of context and read literally, would cause come concern," Hyland said at the meeting at which the lease was extended.

188. Unlike Others, U.S. Defends Freedom to Offend in Speech

Comment #192119 by rod-the-farmer on June 12, 2008 at 1:18 pm

What was missing from the complaint was a clear statement of exactly HOW their

"dignity, feelings and self-respect."

189. Debating creationism in Louisiana schools

Comment #191742 by rod-the-farmer on June 11, 2008 at 2:51 pm

He comes across as really smooth. Doesn't have a case, of course, and won't respond to direct questions, but then he IS a politician.

190. New British Petition: Stop the Nightmares

Comment #191735 by rod-the-farmer on June 11, 2008 at 2:27 pm

Re Comment #191726 by Frankus1122
You have a flask drive around your neck ? Wow. You must be one of those transitional fossils we read about, the one between a human and a St. Bernard. Wait....wait....Dog !!!!! I bow-wow down before you.

191. Hints of structure beyond the visible universe

Comment #191111 by rod-the-farmer on June 10, 2008 at 8:25 am

"Seems like an awful waste of space", he said, origin-ally.

192. The 14-year-old Afghan suicide bomber

Comment #191087 by rod-the-farmer on June 10, 2008 at 7:42 am

Re Comment #191067 by black wolf

They know that education is their most dangerous enemy.

193. The 14-year-old Afghan suicide bomber

Comment #190982 by rod-the-farmer on June 10, 2008 at 3:24 am

Perhaps we (western society) need to set up schools in this area, in which multiple subjects could be taught. If I were a young child, I might be much more interested in learning about arithmetic, writing, basic science, and perhaps some basic agriculture skills, than learning the koran and listening to political speeches. Teachers at such a school could say "If you wish to learn about the koran, you should go to the other school. But if you wish to learn about the natural world around you, come here."

Perhaps some of the troops there are helping with this ? Even if they only had the children in for one hour, I think they could open their minds to the possibility of learning about the world around them. I suspect their natural curiosity would bloom and make them want to come back for another lesson. Careful choices as to subject matter may help reduce any conflicts with traditional teaching. Young children are often fascinated by things like microscopes and telescopes.

194. Complex Synapses Drove Brain Evolution

Comment #190490 by rod-the-farmer on June 9, 2008 at 7:41 am

OK, NOW what we need is to have this same group analyse the brains of the higher apes. Dollars to donuts that they have very similar building blocks. If so, we can use this info to beat off the fundies who claim we are 'special' and not related to them. I wonder if spreading that investigation further down (?) the mammalian tree of life, that we will find that the differences become wider, just as the DNA differences do.....

195. Prayer to feed the hungry

Comment #190226 by rod-the-farmer on June 8, 2008 at 2:54 pm

Re Comment #190218 by black wolf

My thoughts exactly.

196. The Great Evangelical Decline

Comment #190012 by rod-the-farmer on June 8, 2008 at 6:37 am

Re Comment #188988 by Quetzalcoatl on June 5, 2008 at 6:43 am

Emmet-

Yes, but what does a church emit when it decays? Two prayer groups and an atheist?



Two prayer groups, an atheist and a sex scandal.

197. Holiday in Hellmouth

Comment #190008 by rod-the-farmer on June 8, 2008 at 6:22 am

What's with all the comments about ClearThinker and bad cheques ? Did I miss a post somewhere ?

And as for Comment #189943 by utelme

this would require "laying on of hands". Discretion requires I not pursue how you would arrange this.

198. Faith no more as World Youth Day fans flames of disbelief

Comment #189996 by rod-the-farmer on June 8, 2008 at 5:19 am

re Comment #189980 by FightingFalcon

If we remove tax-exempt status from churches, they will rightfully demand a direct voice in the government. Everyone (or every group) that is taxed has the right to participate in government.

199. Hints of 'time before Big Bang'

Comment #189532 by rod-the-farmer on June 6, 2008 at 12:34 pm

Up to now, I thought the universe was in Orions belt......

200. Opponents of Evolution Adopting a New Strategy

Comment #188836 by rod-the-farmer on June 4, 2008 at 6:17 pm

Re Comment #188708 by bluebird and the proposed Missouri legislation

teaching of biological and chemical evolution