151. Jesus saves

Comment #147077 by MelM on March 19, 2008 at 6:50 pm

Reason saves!
Way back when, "Jesus saves" was a slogan one saw a lot. Then the car model Datsun came out with the "Datsun saves" ad slogan and I don't remember seeing much of "Jesus saves" after that. Maybe "Reason saves" would work the same way now--or maybe not.

152. Jesus saves

Comment #147075 by MelM on March 19, 2008 at 6:40 pm

People just like a powerful ruler who will tell them what to think, tell them what to do, and take care of them.

153. Jesus saves

Comment #147069 by MelM on March 19, 2008 at 6:30 pm

Great! We need some solid research into the psychopathology of religion. It could be used to develop strategies for springing people loose--I'm serious.

But, will they even get as far as to suggest the factor that people are trying to escape the need for thought which can't be done? Fear of being totally responsible for one's own conclusions is not easy to overcome. People believe there's intellectual safety in herds.

154. Atheists claim censorship by billboard company

Comment #147024 by MelM on March 19, 2008 at 5:28 pm

I agree that atheist does not equal rational. However, revealed religion and commandments and holy books stop thought in it's tracks. Once faith takes over, we see thought reduced to hack rationalizations (= theology). In ethics, commandments are not just some ideas that god said we might think about--just suggestions. No, we are not to think about them; they are commands--obedience is demanded. Under penalty of burning in hell, thought is eliminated. I found this little 1 minute YouTube Q&A video by the Objectivist philosopher Leonard Peikoff the other day and it's really right on the mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M37Kq0ob9MA

So, I think religion is the worst and by far most dangerous form of irrationalism; anyway, I don't see the UFO people trying a power grab in the U.S.

I've commented before about unreason being the general problem and that a direct attack on religion is needed at the same time as a vigorous defense of reason generally. Indeed, without support for reason, I don't see the New Atheism lasting very long. Just look at all the fleas already (nearly 2 dozen). Yes, they are crap; but, how many fleas does it take to kill a dog?

155. Atheists claim censorship by billboard company

Comment #146993 by MelM on March 19, 2008 at 4:18 pm

On a hunch, I checked Wikipedia for "Jim Crow Laws" and got an interesting hit. It includes some examples from various states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_crow_laws

I'm not a constitutional scholar at all and it's always amazed me that such flagrant violations of rights were tolerated by the U.S. Supreme Court. If they're not protecting us from government, then what the hell good are they?

Today, their are people around who don't even know that the courts are supposed to protect us from the government. Look at the appaling "court stripping" laws the nutters in Congress tried to pass. Unbelievable! And, if we end up with conscript national service, the Court will probably uphold it even though the Thirteenth Amendment states:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

From Nineteen Eighty-Four--Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink
doublethink:
The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them . . . . To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies--all this is indispensably necessary.

156. Atheists claim censorship by billboard company

Comment #146303 by MelM on March 18, 2008 at 10:42 pm

If some company can be found that will not refuse because of religious convictions or for any other damn reason, I think a "Beware of Dogma" button would complement my A pin very well.

157. Atheists claim censorship by billboard company

Comment #146302 by MelM on March 18, 2008 at 10:34 pm

The public interest be damned!
Be aware that while enforcing "obligations" in the "public interest", individual rights are being rejected item by item. Obligations and public interest are the complete opposite of individual rights.

The U.S. FCC is now considering a new law to control excessive violence on TV (CENSORSHIP) just as obscenity is now controlled (CENSORSHIP)--all, of course, in the public interest (an undefinable term). We may very shortly have conscript national service (an obligation) imposed in "the public interest". I have no desire to lead a life of unchosen obligations in the public interest; others can load up on all the obligations they want--I won't try to stop you. I abhor any idea of ever violating anyone's rights but, the public interest be damned.

The nutters are likely going to win.
Remember this. I think the chances are very good that within 2 or 3 decades, the nutters will be the ones deciding what the obligations are and what the public interest is--the more rods we hand them, the less they will have to do and the sooner power can be consolidated. At the very least, they will control every school and university that's publically funded and anything else operating with public obligations--such as the "air waves". I will hold out for every area of private independant action that I can; it'll be the last to sink and the last place from which to fight back.

158. Atheists claim censorship by billboard company

Comment #146262 by MelM on March 18, 2008 at 8:54 pm

I believe there are web based outfits that will make bumper stickers. And, I'll bet it wouldn't take long to have some "Beware of Dogma" buttons made. etc, etc.

159. Atheists claim censorship by billboard company

Comment #146258 by MelM on March 18, 2008 at 8:42 pm

It could also be that the company approves of dogma. Whatever, to withdraw the right to not support ideas is (borrowing from Hitchens) "making a rod for your own back" (as I recall). I cringe every time I hear someone use "censorship" the way it was used by the Freedom From Religion Foundation. Atheists are getting our point across without coercion being used to violate freedom of speech--lets continue that way. Confusing the actions of government and the voluntary decisions of the people is a sure way to end freedom of speech.

160. Richard Dawkins on The Alan Colmes Show

Comment #146080 by MelM on March 18, 2008 at 3:35 pm

Just a thought. Maybe it would help, during interviews where the question comes up, if Richard would provide a web site featuring transistional fossils. Such as:
"Transitional fossils": Wikipeida http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossils

"List of transitional fossils" Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

Perhaps there are better links.

Give some of the listeners a way to follow up the interview. I would NOT assume that the entire audience is composed of wackos or even adults.

161. New Atheists Are Not Great

Comment #145513 by MelM on March 17, 2008 at 5:02 pm

Thee are some things about are missing here.

The Albigensian Crusade with an estimated cost of 1,000,000 dead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade#_note-1

There is a new book about this. A Most Holy War: The Albigensian Crusade and the Battle for Christendom (Pivotal Moments in World History) (Hardcover) by Mark Gregory Pegg
Hardcover: 288 pages
Publisher: Oxford University Press, USA (January 28, 2008)
http://www.amazon.com/Most-Holy-War-Albigensian-Christendom/dp/0195171314/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205796661&sr=1-1

One of the editorial reviews has this comment:

The pope preached to his armies that whoever slaughtered these alleged heretics would not only cleanse his own soul but the soul of Christendom as well. This crusade, as Pegg remarkably demonstrates, introduced genocide into the world and paved the way for Christians to engage in the inquisitions against Jews and the crusades against Muslims that marked the remainder of the Middle Ages. Drawing on numerous primary documents, Pegg's compelling history offers fresh glimpses into the nature of religious violence as well as the easy ways that religions often fall into intolerance.

162. The Great Tantra Challenge

Comment #144858 by MelM on March 16, 2008 at 9:35 pm

Dogzilla,

Good story; thanks. Perhaps she wasn't a good christian; there's always an insane explanation.

Edit: Atheism needs a good cartoonist.

163. The Great Tantra Challenge

Comment #144848 by MelM on March 16, 2008 at 9:03 pm

Atheism needs a good cartoonist.

164. The Great Tantra Challenge

Comment #144844 by MelM on March 16, 2008 at 8:55 pm

The web site's worth a look.
http://www.rationalistinternational.net/

Sanal Edamaruku moved India and the world forward in just one courageous evening. Wow! If UK TV could get hold of the video and make a show out of it; what a sensation that would be!

I'd love to see Benny Hinn caught like this!

165. The Oxford Book of Modern Science Writing

Comment #144746 by MelM on March 16, 2008 at 5:14 pm

Looks interesting; I'll get it. But, I have some questions about the intended audience. Who could read it? What are the prerequisites?

Is this book readable by a high school student (US grades 9-12) in, for example, an advanced program, and therefore suitable for a school library or as a gift?

What university course could use it? Would it be of use in a course for humanities majors that attempts to bridge the much discussed gap between the humanities and the sciences? Suitable for philosophy majors? Suitable for science majors and for the science based professions? I think it should impart some real understanding and not just a load of undigested buzzwords. Of course, this requirement is equally valid for the high school level as well.

166. The atheist delusion

Comment #144386 by MelM on March 15, 2008 at 10:33 pm

I hope my auto mechanic uses methodological naturalism; imagine being told that god was the cause of that terrible sound coming from the engine. I've never been asked to join my mechanic in prayer for my car's recovery.

Drive through car prayers? $$$$$$$ Hmmmmmmm.

167. The atheist delusion

Comment #144374 by MelM on March 15, 2008 at 8:04 pm

Over on the Guardian site, the piece is introduced thus:

Godless evangelicals
The irony is that, in its fanaticism and intolerance, atheism's militant tendency apes the worst aspects of religious fundamentalism

168. The atheist delusion

Comment #144349 by MelM on March 15, 2008 at 5:15 pm

I just found an interesting web site: Biblical Errancy by Dennis McKinsey
http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/index.html

while checking out this book: Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist by Dan Barker
http://www.amazon.com/Losing-Faith-Preacher-Atheist/dp/187773313X/ref=pd_sim_b_title_11

while checking out some links on the psychopathology of religion

while making a list of the approaches to attacking religion and unreason that might be effective now that so many fleas have responded to the atheist books. I think we need to evolve.

169. The atheist delusion

Comment #144035 by MelM on March 14, 2008 at 11:02 pm

Why do I hate them so much? Well, I'll submit this evidence from a recent PZ post. In my first comment above, I turned the statement around so as to read it from my perspective.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/what_hath_the_god_of_biscuits.php

Night night.

170. The atheist delusion

Comment #144031 by MelM on March 14, 2008 at 10:47 pm

These evil atheists:

Zealous atheism renews some of the worst features of Christianity and Islam. Just as much as these religions, it is a project of universal conversion.

171. The atheist delusion

Comment #144018 by MelM on March 14, 2008 at 10:11 pm

How about this little bit of treason to humanity:

Both science and religion are systems of symbols that serve human needs - in the case of science, for prediction and control.
Religions have served many purposes, but at bottom they answer to a need for meaning that is met by myth rather than explanation.

172. The atheist delusion

Comment #144014 by MelM on March 14, 2008 at 9:46 pm

Faith is the greatest enemy reason has. Religion creates a milieu of unreason that accomodated the hatred for reason by Hitler and the suppression of it by Stalin. Neither of these regimes had any problem fitting the sacrifice of the individual to the state into their national religious backgrounds. It is irrationality across the board that is my enemy. Astrology is a minor problem; alien abduction stories, and crop circles may come and go but the vice of faith is the most persistent danger to reason, science, Western Civilization, and freedom. I am anti-religion because I'm pro-reason, pro-science, and pro-freedom.

173. Beauty ad banned after Christian outcry

Comment #143863 by MelM on March 14, 2008 at 2:14 pm

-- A woman praying is certainly not erotic.

-- Anyone should be able to know whether an action is or is not against the law before taking the action. Having "offensive" in a law violates that principle.

-- 23 is not "widespread".

-- Business should have freedom of speech as well as anyone. Provable fraud is, of course, a form of theft and should be a crime.

-- Any freedom of speech restrictions involving "offending religion" should be protested vigorously; surely, UK atheists can send in more than 23 e-mail complaints about this decision.

174. Two More Fleas

Comment #143147 by MelM on March 13, 2008 at 2:21 pm

black wolf,

Thanks for finding the deconversion story.

Among others approaches, deconversion research could provide a base for atheist efforts. So, I think it's a very important idea to look carefully at these stories to discover the explanations for the deconversions. In essentials, the stories will fall into some finite group of types--like everything else.

Anyway, here's the "coming out video" of a pleasant young woman who began because her father was a Baptist and her mother was a Catholic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naLQjFNQVAM

175. Two More Fleas

Comment #142546 by MelM on March 12, 2008 at 5:25 pm

Yet another flea! "The Reason for God: Belief in an Age of Skepticism
by Timothy Keller"
Feb 14, 2008

http://www.amazon.com/Reason-God-Belief-Age-Skepticism/dp/0525950494/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205366544&sr=1-1

To my great surprise and disappointment, this guy was able to also fill Wheeler auditorium in Berkeley on the Tuesday evening before Dawkins was there.

This guy seems to be a big deal. From the book site: http://thereasonforgod.com/author.php

The Influentials Issue of New York Magazine featured Dr. Keller as "the most successful Christian evangelist in the city by recognizing that young professionals and artists are 'disproportionately influential' in creating the country's culture and that you have to meet this coveted demographic on its own terms."

176. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #141616 by MelM on March 10, 2008 at 10:24 pm

OT

Unbelievable--"...if the student answered 6,000 years based on his or her religious belief, the school would have to credit it as correct."

http://www.edmondsun.com/opinion/local_story_067125346.html

Bill promotes school religion at expense of education

Dave McNeely
Special to The Sun

EDMOND -- The Oklahoma House of Representatives Education Committee has just approved House Bill 2211
...

If a student's religious beliefs were in conflict with scientific theory, and the student chose to express those beliefs rather than explain the theory in response to an exam question, the student's incorrect response would be deemed satisfactory, according to this bill.

The school would be required to reward the student with a good grade, or be considered in violation of the law. Even simple, factual information such as the age of the earth (4.65 billion years) would be subject to the student's belief, and if the student answered 6,000 years based on his or her religious belief, the school would have to credit it as correct.

177. Seven new deadly sins: are you guilty?

Comment #141555 by MelM on March 10, 2008 at 3:45 pm

Dropped off in the TimesOnline comments although not shown yet:

I'm disappointed. I had hoped to see reason elevated to a virtue and faith demoted to a sin. However, running any misery cult worth its salt requires faith; so, I suppose my hope was misplaced.

178. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #141010 by MelM on March 9, 2008 at 3:51 pm

Comment #140989 by Mental Slavery ,

All I've seen is this link posted by Teratornis (#138076). It's about filming the two California events. Note that one of them is Richard's TGD presentation at Berkeley and the Stanford event is:

AURORA FORUM: AGAINST IGNORANCE: SCIENCE EDUCATION IN THE 21ST CENTURY: A CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD DAWKINS AND LAWRENCE KRAUSS

179. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #140850 by MelM on March 8, 2008 at 9:52 pm

Dawkins at Berkeley was well worth the line and the time: lots of fun and plenty of excuses to applaud. There was also a standing ovation for Richard that was quite pleasing. After, I checked with some people helping with the event; they said "hundreds" were turned away.

A little bunch of us in line to get in struck up a conversation. There was a Catholic agnostic scientist and his family. His wife didn't know what ID was so a high school girl in the bunch started to explain. So, it's great that others besides atheists showed up although there were lots of Dawkins fans--as indicated when he asked for a show of hands of those who had visited his web site.

I bought the "Ancestor's Tale" but the line for Richard to sign books was already way longer than I had the stamina for; so I headed for a burger and home. Anyway, I hadn't purchased the book to get the signature, so I didn't mind leaving without one.

Good job Richard.

180. Out of the Blue

Comment #140770 by MelM on March 8, 2008 at 2:51 pm

OT

PZ has a post about "Expelled" being shown to Florida legislators.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/its_a_propaganda_film.php
This is really outrageous.

Florida Citizens for Science is on the case today also; one commenter has said that he was told by the director of the Challenger Center that anyone not showing porn can rent facilities; the Center can't discriminate and it was "this legislator" who rented the facility. http://www.flascience.org/wp/?p=497#comments

I hate religion a little more every day!!

181. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #140747 by MelM on March 8, 2008 at 1:58 pm

OT but nice.

Panda's Thumb has a post about some science web sites an UCSD (University of California, San Diego). There's a new lecture series "Evolution Matters" and plenty of videos on 3 listed web sites: "Grey Matters", "Science Matters", and "Atoms to Xrays".

The Panda's Thumb post: http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2008/03/evolution-matte.html#more

182. When blasphemy bit the dust

Comment #140547 by MelM on March 7, 2008 at 7:47 pm

Elizabeth Anderson in the essay "If God Is Dead, Is Everything Permitted?" contained in Hitchens' "The Portable Atheist" documents the New Testament destructiveness and murder to come when Jesus returns. Looks to me like the same old god of the Old Testament.

183. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #139987 by MelM on March 6, 2008 at 10:43 pm

Thanks for the updates about Dawkins' ASU appearance. Nice crowd!

After seeing the nutter theologian Tim Keller (Tue. night Mar 4) fill Wheeler auditorium on the U.C. Berkeley campus (not all were students though), I'm really hoping that Dawkins can also fill it. I suppose the best outcome would be to fill Wheeler with the same people who saw Keller, thinking that--like debates--it's your opponent's supporters that you really want to talk to and not your own. If there's a super turnout, I'm not sure whether the talk would be broadcast to people in front of the building; but, it's a pleasant area and the weather forecast for Sat. evening looks good. I can hope.

184. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #139972 by MelM on March 6, 2008 at 9:25 pm

Comment #139962 by Runlinds,

Big crowd?

185. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #139883 by MelM on March 6, 2008 at 3:52 pm

So now, the apologists are starting to claim that relgion played a major role in the enlightnment.

The Tragedy of Theology: How Religion Caused and Extended the Dark Ages
A Critique of Rodney Stark's The Victory of Reason by Andrew Bernstein

The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success, by Rodney Stark. New York: Random House, 2005. 304 pp. $25.95 (cloth), $15.95 (paperback).

In recent decades, medieval scholars have persistently advanced the thesis that the Dark and Middle Ages were not actually dark--that the 1,000-year period stretching from the fall of Rome (roughly 500 AD) to the Renaissance (roughly 1500) was an era of significant intellectual and cultural advance. This trend has culminated in the claims of Rodney Stark's The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success (and similar claims presented in Thomas Woods's How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization). That such a theory would be welcomed by the religious right is not surprising. However, what might surprise some--and what is certainly ominous--is that such major organs of the liberal press as The New York Times and The Chronicle of Higher Education (the leading publication for university professors and administrators) have treated Stark's book with significant respect. This essay will demonstrate that such respect is entirely undeserved

186. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #139851 by MelM on March 6, 2008 at 2:55 pm

128. Comment #139738 by kevin_2050,

Yes, Berkeley needs Dawkins. I was shocked at the turnout on March 4 at Wheeler for the nutter Tim Keller although he seems to be big in religious circles. Anyway, See my comment:

http://www.richarddawkins.net/articleComments,2331,Richard-Dawkins-US-Tour-begins-this-week,RichardDawkinsnet,page2#138837

Oh, I received my A lapel pins today. I've never worn anything of the sort but it felt great to put one on my jacket before heading out for a hotdog.

Death
For myself, I think life needs the organs of life such as heart, lungs, stomach, muscle, and all the stuff doctors know about. As for "spirits", all I can think of as a general definition is some form of consciousness without--or at least not needing--a body. But, this means consciousness without organs of consciousness: like eyes, nose, and a brain. Consciousness is an attribute of some living things and not a self-subsistent "spirit" that enters a body and runs the organs of life.

187. How to abandon your God

Comment #139446 by MelM on March 5, 2008 at 9:08 pm

A god that's nothing specific is undefinable and nothing at all. End of reason thus end of debate.

188. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #139431 by MelM on March 5, 2008 at 8:09 pm

I didn't notice 'till today that not all Richards talks are the same. The talk at Stanford looks like a must-see video.

http://www.richarddawkins.net/calendar

Against Ignorance: Science Education in the 21st Century with Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins
at Aurora Forum at Stanford University

189. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #139315 by MelM on March 5, 2008 at 2:58 pm

OT

Hotdog!! http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/3/5/135012/2476/Front_Page/Religious_Right_Loses_a_Big_One_in_Texas

Religious Right Loses a Big One in Texas

190. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #139304 by MelM on March 5, 2008 at 2:40 pm

What's wrong with religion? IT'S FALSE. This is its first and foundational problem.

Any tidbit in religion that's true is true in reality and not because it's in some holy book or because some god said so. Trying to live against the facts guarantees that one is living incorrectly. This is true even of all the "feel good" drivel put forward for believing in nonsense. For example, I've been through grief without a religious solution and I came out ok.


Ethics?
Well, I dont't see anything good about sacrificing the morally perfect (Jesus in the christian view) for the sake of the morally defective.

I don't see anything good about an ethics that places the goal of ethical action beyond the grave.

I don't see anything good about an ethics based on commands of the great father rather than on the requirements of living on Earth.

What are some things religion (the misery cults) is doing TODAY?
-It forbids people to seek doctor assisted death.
-It forbids some stem cell research.
-It forbids contraception even to stop AIDS.
-It forbids abortion.
-It forbids divorce.
-It opposes science with dogma.
-It teaches unreason--most specifically "faith"
-It teaches absurdities: Genesis, talking snakes, life after death, walking on water, loaves of bread...
-It attempts to undercut confidence in reason.
-It opposes sex outside of marriage.
-It keeps us from figuring out how to live with reality instead of against it.
-It's trying to grab political power; religion can't keep to itself.

191. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #139285 by MelM on March 5, 2008 at 1:51 pm

"... but what about Hitler or Stalin..."

192. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #138837 by MelM on March 4, 2008 at 8:49 pm

Comment #138080 by aznxscorpion517,
Re: Tim Keller in Berkeley


About 8:15pm.
Disappointing news from Wheeler auditorium in Berkeley. I walked over just before the start time of 7:30pm. (Recall that Dawkins will speak at Wheeler this coming Saturday evening--March 8.)

Wheeler is full
Tim Keller, author of "The Reason For God" is indeed at Wheeler auditorium on the U.C. campus. To my surprise and disappointment, the auditorium is full and people were turned away. There were two lines; one for "visitors" which looked mainly adult and the other was mainly of student age people. I walked past the lines and through the external doors to get a first hand look at the crowd in the auditorium. His book was being sold just outside the auditorium doors.

Crap; there are nutters in the area
It does look like Berkeley is in need of more help from Dawkins than I'd thought although I've really no idea where the people came from. The San Francisco Bay Area is large and has plenty of roads and mass transit (BART).

No "A" pin yet
My regret is that it'll be a few days yet before I receive my "A" pins; I would have loved to wear one this evening.

I'm looking forward to Saturday night; I hope Dawkins sees a packed auditorium.

193. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #138672 by MelM on March 4, 2008 at 5:09 pm

OT (Florida)

Well, they've done it! "Academic freedom" bills have been introduced into both the House and Senate of the state of Florida.

From the Florida Citizens for Science:
http://www.flascience.org/wp/?p=484
There are several more posts about the situation. These are "above" this post.

From Panda's Thumb:
http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2008/03/antievolution-l.html

194. Church exhumes Padre Pio

Comment #138580 by MelM on March 4, 2008 at 2:51 pm

Psychopathology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathology

195. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #138091 by MelM on March 3, 2008 at 10:37 pm

I see Keller's new book "A Reason For God" claims that it "Uses Presuppostional Apologetics with postmoderns." I don't know about his particular views but, as I've commented before, "presuppositional apologetics" is a really nasty bunch of brain cracking crap that attempts to undercut rationality right at it philosophical root. I'm inclined to believe that it's the main support for the fanaticism we're seeing today; it allows people to "presume" the bible and lock out any disagreement whatever. Down the road, it will work like a polylogic system that leaves only one way to deal with those who don't agree: force. And that makes if quite scary. Religion can't survive without supporting some form of unreason.

196. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #138086 by MelM on March 3, 2008 at 10:07 pm

Comment #138080 by aznxscorpion517,

What a revolting development this is!

Yes, the event was moved to Wheeler. I'll try to walk over and snoop around. If this nutter fills Wheeler, I'll know the country is in a lot more trouble than I'd thought.

197. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #138079 by MelM on March 3, 2008 at 9:35 pm

Put in a good word or two for freedom of speech.

I don't think I'll be able to attend the Berkeley talk, but I may be able to walk over and check out the makeup of the crowd going into Wheeler--a large auditorim. The weather forecast looks good for Saturday.

This isn't Florida or Texas or...
The people of California voted to spend 3 billion on stem cell research and about two weeks ago, some "abstinence only" nutters were caught teaching sex education classes in some S.F. Bay Area schools. Somehow, they contracted to do the work and even administrators didn't know who they were. Finally, they were exposed because some alert mom found out her son wasn't learning what she expected and wanted him to learn. An investigation uncovered the situation. This abstinence only nutter stuff for sex ed is illegal in California. So, if Dawkins runs into any barking mad nutters here, it'll be far fewer than I'd expect elsewhere.

Anyway, I think that talking to young people who are still on the fence or who are just a little bit religious is very very important. Talks at both UC and Stanford is a real win since they are the two big top ranked schools in Northern California and are important nationally.

Oh, pass out some "A" buttons so I won't feel so lonely when I walk around town with my new "A" lapel pin when it comes.

Comment #138068 by ic0n0clast:

I wish prof. Dawkins would come to Colorado :(

198. Survey shows Non-Religious Outnumber Those of Every Single Faith (But One)

Comment #137987 by MelM on March 3, 2008 at 5:50 pm

59 million hardcore nutters
I saw a number just a few days ago of 225 million adults in the U.S. Using 26.3% for the Evangelical churches group, that works out to 59 million problem nutters which is in the ball park of the estimates I've seen up untill now. They are a very fanatic cult that wants power and I don't think the rest of the populaion is fully aware of how much spin and fraud the country is being bombarded with. They've been very effective at political action and propaganda. I'm afraid though, that by the time the rest of the country figures out what's going on, it'll be too late. Moderates follow along or don't resist radicals; that's how it works. And, the moderates will have bought into enough of the fraud that their hands will be really dirty. Also, the hard nutters are good at hiding their fangs and claws; the Republican convention will look squeaky clean on TV again. I don't think they'll invite John Hagee to speak.

199. Survey shows Non-Religious Outnumber Those of Every Single Faith (But One)

Comment #137960 by MelM on March 3, 2008 at 4:48 pm

Comment #137919 by BicycleRepairMan,

I agree, this article is crap.

Thanks for the Pew link. I'm looking at the numbers now. I added up some percents to make sure that they were relative to the entire adult population rather than to the next higher group.

while 23.9 percent identify themselves as Catholic. The next largest "belief group" is Evangelical Baptist at 10.8 percent. All other denominational groupings show in the single digits or less.

...placing the unaffiliated second only to Roman Catholics in number

200. Survey shows Non-Religious Outnumber Those of Every Single Faith (But One)

Comment #137898 by MelM on March 3, 2008 at 2:52 pm

I've been procrastinating for a month or two about buying some of the Dawkins "A" lapel pins. I've never worn any such label but I'm so outraged at religion that I want to assertively stand out. So, I just now completed the order. What the hell: if I can tolerate the continuous disgorge of intellectual raw sewage coming from religion, they can learn to tolerate my "A" pins.

I don't think Pew is going to help us in Florida (it isn't over yet), Texas, with HR 888, or plenty of other issues; so, it's no time to relax.