151. A New Jack Chick Tract: Moving On Up!

Comment #175096 by SPS on May 4, 2008 at 11:39 am

Teratornis,

Probably no two people react to a given argument in exactly the same way. An argument which appears irrefutable to one person might simply not "register" on another. But if that other person hears the argument enough times, and worded in enough different ways, eventually it might "click."

152. A New Jack Chick Tract: Moving On Up!

Comment #175093 by SPS on May 4, 2008 at 11:31 am

Funny how every threat of punishment or promise of reward in the religious world equates to something in the known physical world. The 'lake of fire', 'fire and brimstone', '72 virgins', pain, suffering, separation, etc. Even in the tract above god/jesus is shown sitting on a throne at the top of the stairs. How can the supernatural lay outside the physical world and not be subject to its laws when it is only the physical world that can be used as an example, and is the only one to which we can relate? It's been said that god created time. If we're to believe that a god possessing a will made the decision to create time, then decisions and the will to enact them require time, again equating to what is observed in the physical world.

153. Evolution's Critics Shift Tactics With Schools

Comment #174898 by SPS on May 3, 2008 at 6:55 pm

Shouldn't actual scientists agree about evidence contrary to evolutionary theory and have their evidence scrutinized and pass peer review before it is taught in a classroom, rather than passing legislation that allows "classes that probe the theory for weakness"? This is another fraud promoted under the banner of 'freedom'.
Opinion poll mentality should have no place in the teaching of science.

154. Religion a figment of human imagination

Comment #171705 by SPS on April 28, 2008 at 5:45 pm

Or

'Imagine no religion...'

Had to throw that in.

155. Lynchings in Congo as penis theft panic hits capital

Comment #167298 by SPS on April 23, 2008 at 9:18 pm

al-rawandi,

My guess is that there is a more mundane cause - human vulnerability, pettiness, or vanity. A man finds he can no longer function the way he used to, and with his manhood threatened/in question, and without a way to understand why it happened, he attributes it to witchcraft. I bet claims of shrinkage or disappearance would actually more likely be a case of impotence. The belief becomes known, and a curse of shrinkage or disappearance becomes an acceptable means for some of enacting revenge. Someone worried about being cursed worries himself to the point of self-imposed impotence, and the otherwise impotent now have something to blame. The person worried into a state of impotence, even though he may suspect his own worry to be the cause, now has a ready made excuse that exempts himself as the cause. In any case, the afflicted man may not have the knowledge to attribute it to anything else, or to exclude the likelihood of witchcraft as being the cause. Some of the reward/punishment aspects of religious belief may work in a similar way.

156. Lynchings in Congo as penis theft panic hits capital

Comment #166670 by SPS on April 23, 2008 at 11:24 am

I blame Hogwarts.

157. Responses to 'Gods and Earthlings' by Richard Dawkins

Comment #165982 by SPS on April 22, 2008 at 4:34 pm

Dinesh D'Souza misrepresents Dawkins' position on his blog;

http://news.aol.com/newsbloggers/2008/04/21/how-did-life-begin/

For the faithful the idea of 'no evidence is evidence' is the only evidence they've got...for that which they supposedly require no evidence in the first place.
We don't know 'x', therefore 'y' must be true.
How do they know this? Well, as they often remind us, we are limited in our ability to comprehend, therefore what they have to say about the unknown is the only truth possible. Makes perfect sense, no? No.

158. Gods and earthlings

Comment #164469 by SPS on April 20, 2008 at 9:49 am

moderationsmuse,

Hmm. And why would people not think the earth is 6,000 years old? Science? Maybe they should have kept quiet and let people have their "quaint views" about that. I mean, after all, how can someone who makes no use of evidence be lead to do anything dangerous, right?
There is a social responsibility. If I see someone get assaulted on the street should I do nothing because I'm not a cop? It would seem so by your way of thinking.

159. Gods and earthlings

Comment #163879 by SPS on April 19, 2008 at 8:40 am

The idea of life being seeded by aliens is also in an episode of Star Trek TNG:
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68598.html
The examples given by 'clearmind' show assemblage with intention of the pre-existing, not creation in the sense implied.
A rock falls down a hill, deforms the earth, chips its surface, disturbs the air around it, and lands on level ground killing an ant. What do you suppose the rock's intention was? Can we understand the rock by knowing its intention?
Can we understand why it happened? I think we can. Can we understand it by believing we know its intention? I don't think so. The meaning behind it comes from us.
Existence is the prerequisite, intention is not.

160. Sexpelled: No Intercourse Allowed

Comment #163305 by SPS on April 18, 2008 at 7:05 am

It is okay to use slandering and twisting; they are another sign of denial or trying to save evolution. You can just join dawkins. Now he is a politican; maybe he can run presidency for the states?

161. Sexpelled: No Intercourse Allowed

Comment #163240 by SPS on April 18, 2008 at 5:03 am

clearmind,

The Stork opens his beak to us. It's up to us to join the flock.

If you don't want to do that, try using some Latin. Latin makes everything true.
A great teacher once said:
Semper ubi sub ubi.
Words to live by.

162. Sexpelled: No Intercourse Allowed

Comment #162964 by SPS on April 17, 2008 at 6:11 pm

The reviews (some of them) are in for Expelled.
Quite bad:
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/expelled_no_intelligence_allowed/

Stork Theory goes along well with my ignorance of science, and my preference for not thinking.
Are we supposed to believe babies magically grow inside a "womb" and come out of a "birth" "canal".
Hey Sex Theory - evil called, it wants its theory back.
Puhh-lease.

163. Sexpelled: No Intercourse Allowed

Comment #162941 by SPS on April 17, 2008 at 5:31 pm

This just in...
Sex Theory is full of gaps. Claims to be followed by official probe.

164. Yoko Ono, Filmmakers Caught in 'Expelled' Flap

Comment #162580 by SPS on April 17, 2008 at 5:03 am

Suggested re-titling of 'Expelled':

Intelligent Design - it's everything you imagined.

Suggested slogan to describe religious belief:

Faith - it's everything you imagined.

165. A New Flea

Comment #160431 by SPS on April 14, 2008 at 5:03 am

I've posed this question before, though in a different way, if a theist or anyone else wants to take a shot at it:

If free will is flawed/fallible, isn't the notion of 'sin' meaningless? And why would a creator who designed free-will with built-in susceptibility, then punish someone for acting according to this susceptibility? If you believe sin to be real, what properties are you attributing to free-will?

166. A New Flea

Comment #160141 by SPS on April 13, 2008 at 5:47 pm

If there is a god, can he also tell us when we can be expecting his apology? Or, alternatively, how everything is actually our fault?

167. The Art of Creating Controversy Where None Existed

Comment #159916 by SPS on April 13, 2008 at 11:49 am

Stick to rhetoric - science isn't democratic, at least discovering the truth isn't. When only one person believed that balls of different weights would fall from the tower at the same rate he was right and the consensus wrong.

168. The Art of Creating Controversy Where None Existed

Comment #159883 by SPS on April 13, 2008 at 10:36 am

Great article. It reminds me of Manufacturing Consent.

rod-the-farmer.

I suppose one tactic we rationalists could try is to ask the YEC people for equal time so we could teach the controversy - evolution etc. - in their home turf, the mega or not-so mega churches.

169. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #159270 by SPS on April 11, 2008 at 8:03 pm

The religious pro-lifers may place value in all stages of pre-birth development, because they believe the developing life is imbued with a soul, gifted by the divine, and the followers obligated to defend it and obey the associated commandments that go along with the promised reward or punishment. The soul considered a divine gift, immutable, eternal, indestructible, predefined, and like the believers soul, yet desperately in need.
Aside from a naturalistic theory or equation that could precisely explain a given point of view, the line we draw is defined by the value we assign and the alternatives available. The value we assign has a lot to do with what we think or hope the potential will be. Similar to seeds which may not be considered equal to the crop. Someone pro-choice or a non-theist may associate value with stages, an ability to relate by experience, and by the expected potential experiences. The closer to fruition, the greater the loss felt. A house partly built is not equally valued to the parts gathered. A house partly built then destroyed would be a greater loss than the pile of wood and nails it consists of. The loss felt would be greater if occupied by a family, and perhaps even greater if occupied by the same family for generations. While we can relate to suffering, contentment, helplessness, etc, we do not see these qualities being equally experienced or relatable to ourselves in other animals. We may wince at the intentional killing of an ape, and not make too much out of stepping on an ant. This does not make one right and the other wrong, but perhaps one more acceptable than the other. Similarly, this may be the case in the values we assign to certain stages of human pre-birth development, since we at least partly need to define ourselves and what we value by our ability to understand by common experience which is coupled with our innate drive to survive and reproduce, and the importance given to the steps needed to accomplish that. The closer to fruition, the closer to expected reciprocal ability and continued common understanding, experience, and survival.

170. Inadequate, private and late apology with grotesquely inadequate excuse

Comment #159205 by SPS on April 11, 2008 at 4:07 pm

Just a small clarification for some. This woman is a member of the Illinois State House of Representatives, rather than the United States House of Representatives.

171. Commentary: Democrats finally getting religion on religion

Comment #157918 by SPS on April 9, 2008 at 6:24 pm

It would be nice to have a candidate who is interested in the truth who also has a chance of getting elected, instead of a candidate who is expected to pander to every significant demographic. Is it any wonder then that we end up with so many politicians who lie to us, and who appear to show no genuine interest in progress?
Though I consider myself a political lefty, I am not much impressed by either of the major parties. As long as the richest campaigns have the best chance of winning, and as long we are divided into our increasingly separate economic classes, I am not confident we will end up with someone who has the general public interest at heart. But, who knows? One can only hope that reason wins out in the political realm, but this probably won't happen until it first wins out in the public realm.
Oh, and FightingFalcon, I agree with you about the importance of space exploration. People forget about the great things that can come out of the inspiration it brings that cannot be measured in dollars.

172. Get out of here, atheists!

Comment #157588 by SPS on April 9, 2008 at 9:59 am

hi, the editor,

Why are Atheists so angry?!!

173. In search of the God particle

Comment #156835 by SPS on April 8, 2008 at 10:03 am

Professor Higgs seems like an awesome guy.
This is very exciting, however, beyond the threat of mini black holes, they have completely overlooked the possiblity of someone falling into the collider, thereby being granted superpowers. This will likely be a geeky scientist who doesn't know quite what to make of his new found abilities, and will have to decide whether to use them for good or evil.

174. Get out of here, atheists!

Comment #156527 by SPS on April 7, 2008 at 6:35 pm

How about a letter to the editor at the Chicagotribune.com where the story appeared? Good from us, better from RD,PZ?

175. Get out of here, atheists!

Comment #156506 by SPS on April 7, 2008 at 5:10 pm

We have a time-honored tradition of rewarding jerks.
I wouldn't be surprised if she is punished by being re-elected and getting an invite to the White House as an honored guest.

By the way, the Illinois State Constitution preamble reads:

We, the People of the State of Illinois - grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He has permitted us to enjoy and seeking His blessing upon our endeavors - in order to provide for the health, safety and welfare of the people; maintain a representative and orderly government; eliminate poverty and inequality; assure legal, social and economic justice; provide opportunity for the fullest development of the individual; insure domestic tranquility; provide for the common defense; and secure the blessings of freedom and liberty to ourselves and our posterity - do ordain and establish this Constitution for the State of Illinois.

176. Russell T Davies: Return of the (tea) Time Lord

Comment #155941 by SPS on April 6, 2008 at 11:24 am

Cartomancer,

There's something about us as a minority which encourages us to live in several different and very separate worlds all the time...

177. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #155514 by SPS on April 4, 2008 at 4:08 pm

Surely, if free will is fallible sin is meaningless.

178. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #154318 by SPS on April 3, 2008 at 5:19 am

There is a knowable reason behind our actions that lies outside of a moral perspective, but that still remains intertwined with it. Our actions come with some perceived expectation. So, perhaps the question is what is to be accomplished by doing one thing and not another, and why is that perceived expectation preferred? We may have a visceral reaction, which is not in any way invalid, but the reaction itself may not satisfy a need to know why we react in such a way. I would think our ability to correctly measure and choose our best perceived options and courses of action would have an evolutionary advantage. I think for many simply enforcing a rule or law without the ability to question, change, or attempt to understand it better could be a greater wrong than breaking the rule itself. This type of enforcement without question is what religion often does. Until we have answers we have to go on our best instincts, but this should not prevent us from looking for those answers.
I am interested in knowing what the women of rd.net think of the abortion issue.

179. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153882 by SPS on April 2, 2008 at 7:14 am

Dune010,
I thought the article was relevant to this part of your post:

I see no reason to believe without evidence that there is something innately different between a 4 month old foetus, a 1 day old child and an adult pig. If someone can provided me with good scientific evidence that there is a line that can be drawn based on levels of cognition or intelligence then I would be interest to hear of it.

180. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153778 by SPS on April 2, 2008 at 4:19 am

Dune010,
You may want to take a look at the linked page in my post #74.

181. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153672 by SPS on April 1, 2008 at 7:46 pm

Regarding the abortion discussion, Michael Shermer writes about it in his book, The Science of Good and Evil:

Fuzzy Logic & Fuzzy Life

182. My quest to get de-baptised

Comment #152607 by SPS on March 31, 2008 at 8:55 am

It's difficult to understand how a decades old statistic could be seen as relevant, though I don't doubt the church's ability to manipulate or misrepresent this data.
I can see this snowballing into other areas. Will this somehow mean I have to give my toothfairy money back now? Because I'm not.
I'm currently petitioning Santa Claus to be removed from the naughty list. Wish me luck.

183. In His Name We Pray, Ramen

Comment #151747 by SPS on March 29, 2008 at 9:53 am

You know, they say Stalin and Hitler were a-spaghettiists. That explains a lot.

184. Iowa county board gives initial OK for ghost hunters to investigate asylum

Comment #151384 by SPS on March 28, 2008 at 3:33 pm

I've wondered, if there were ghosts, why would they hang around to do stupid shit? Doesn't make sense...probably because they don't exist.

185. Happy Birthday, Richard Dawkins!

Comment #150346 by SPS on March 26, 2008 at 6:42 pm

Happy 67th! The good news is you're only 5 minutes old in creationist time!
You're an intellectual father to many.
And, thanks for all you do to free the slaves.
Keep on Rawkin, Dawkins!

186. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #149728 by SPS on March 26, 2008 at 7:33 am

Tragic and unnecessary. Propagated ignorance has a high price.

187. Expelled Overview

Comment #149495 by SPS on March 25, 2008 at 6:18 pm

Very informative! Thanks, Josh!
I'm amazed at the efforts to demonize atheists. Do the creationists really think they pray for anything different than what atheists want for themselves, their family, and the world at large? The difference is the disservice creationists do to themselves and those they care about by turning a blind eye to what challenges their beliefs. Their interest in reality often appears limited to using it as a tool to feed and spread their delusions. And when reality doesn't fit? Lie.

188. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147251 by SPS on March 20, 2008 at 4:38 am

I apologize if someone has already brought this up. Sexual acts can also be displays of dominance and submission, each with its respective advantage, each causing no permanent harm to its participants who may be useful members of a group.

189. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #146799 by SPS on March 19, 2008 at 12:19 pm

'Normal' implies an individual or shared understanding in this context.
Common may be a better word in relation to percentages or frequency of occurrence.

190. Jesus saves

Comment #146534 by SPS on March 19, 2008 at 7:13 am

Jesus saves...you from thinking for yourself.

191. Atheists claim censorship by billboard company

Comment #146235 by SPS on March 18, 2008 at 7:53 pm

As usual, it's profit before principle unless the latter threatens the former.

192. The atheist delusion

Comment #144937 by SPS on March 17, 2008 at 4:27 am

....most wickedest.
You guys are funny. I mean wicked funny.
I still like the quote, grammatically correct or not.
Bonzai,
I don't have a detailed answer to those concerns having read only two books on the subject, but I can tell you each of those concerns is addressed along with many others (perhaps on the website), and parecon allows for its own re-configuration if it's not working. It isn't a system in love with itself, so to speak. Honestly, it doesn't always sit well with me, but there is enough openness and fairness there to make it appealing if not in full then in part.

193. The atheist delusion

Comment #144819 by SPS on March 16, 2008 at 8:10 pm

I like Chomsky, too. I don't think capitalism is all bad, but I also don't think it's the best we're capable of.
I like this quote by John Maynard Keynes:

Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.

194. The Great Tantra Challenge

Comment #144809 by SPS on March 16, 2008 at 7:09 pm

At least this guy's only chanting. Other crazy beliefs have since moved on to real weapons to inflict harm.
I guess curses work out as well as moving mountains with faith.

195. The atheist delusion

Comment #144728 by SPS on March 16, 2008 at 4:49 pm

ThoughtsonCommonToad,
No apologies necessary. Thanks.

196. The atheist delusion

Comment #144708 by SPS on March 16, 2008 at 4:22 pm

Perhaps.
I wrote that as a response to parts of the article such as this:

But the belief that history is a directional process is as faith-based as anything in the Christian catechism. Secular thinkers such as Grayling reject the idea of providence, but they continue to think humankind is moving towards a universal goal - a civilisation based on science that will eventually encompass the entire species. In pre-Christian Europe, human life was understood as a series of cycles; history was seen as tragic or comic rather than redemptive. With the arrival of Christianity, it came to be believed that history had a predetermined goal, which was human salvation. Though they suppress their religious content, secular humanists continue to cling to similar beliefs. One does not want to deny anyone the consolations of a faith, but it is obvious that the idea of progress in history is a myth created by the need for meaning.

197. The atheist delusion

Comment #144690 by SPS on March 16, 2008 at 3:35 pm

I often wonder when an idea is credited to a particular group why does it stop where it does? Why not credit all preceding influences? Crediting ideas or mandates to religion/unquestionable dogma is almost on par with crediting it to divine influence. Ideas come from humans as a result of that which influences humans. There has been no evidence that these ideas are divinely imparted, which explains why they are so often wrong. If we point to an idea as a positive influence, doesn't it tell us something more about the idea itself and what it means to us rather than the self-proclaimed, self-deluded importance of where it came from? Progress does not owe itself to religion. Any spur to action, especially group action, whether seen as appropriate or misguided, has behind it some notion that progress or improvement is possible or at least worthy of pursuing. Secularism provides an open-ended, actively-questioned, changeable means of getting us there wherever 'there' turns out to be. To say that we don't share common influences or goals and a means to understand those influences and achieve those goals is to imply we cannot communicate in any significant way at all, and voicing that is in itself a contradiction. Any system of thought that does not allow for itself to be wrong cannot be relied upon as a preferred motivator to action. If free-will is a result of influence by degrees, then science gives us a means of measuring, questioning, and understanding those influences. Thankfully, we can credit this questioning to the widespread acceptance that illness is not a result of demon possession or punishment by the gods, among the (near)demise of many other myth-influenced notions. If someone or some group has a means to death and destruction or unchecked influence and holds that an unobservable, unfathomable/unknowable, unquestionable force/idea guides their actions, why would it be seen as 'fundamentalist' to speak out against such dangerous attitudes?
Even if experience can be broken down from the general into the specific by scientific means it doesn't hold us back from where we would like those experiences and resulting ideas to lead us in terms of human endeavor. No one needs permission from religion to have a hopeful outlook, to work out what that means, or to take action to bring those hopes about.
In light of reason, religion has not honestly informed us about where we came from, where we are going, or why we should go there.

198. The business of natural selection

Comment #144188 by SPS on March 15, 2008 at 9:35 am

Survival of the richest?

199. Two More Fleas

Comment #142606 by SPS on March 12, 2008 at 8:35 pm

What we don't know is not a justification for faith.
Faith is not a substitute for knowledge.
The constant effort to find new reasons to believe betrays the validity of faith to stand on its own.
These questions by the author are further evidence that faith is insufficient.
Faith will always measure itself against knowledge, while remaining incompatible with its implications.

200. Out of the Blue

Comment #142055 by SPS on March 11, 2008 at 7:28 pm

A somewhat related article:
Tiny Brain-Like Computer Created