Comments by al-rawandi

Comment #199097 by al-rawandi on June 25, 2008 at 7:21 am

epeeist,

Pro-choice... Yes that is a very worthy cause. My commendations to your daughter. To be honest I had completely forgotten about the abortion issue, thank you for pointing that out. If feminist groups are active in the right to choose, they are not useless. The government has no business telling a private citizen what to do with their body, especially based on religious precepts and not science.

Steve,

Thanks for the link. It looks like a conference focusing on Indigenous Australians. However, I think I was talking about American feminism... which I think epeeist addressed.

As for salaries, I would not doubt that wage difference is possible, but simply saying "pay for full time employment is different" means nothing. For instance, what happens when more women become teachers and more men become fire fighters. In the US a teacher will make $50,000-60,000 (sometimes more) and a firefighter will maker $100,000-$150,000 (depending on overtime).

So a study that showed that women fire fighters make less than men, or women teachers make less than men would have been helpful. Just saying "full time employment" is disengenuous in the extreme and omits so much relevant detail as to be nothing but propaganda.

2302. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199067 by al-rawandi on June 25, 2008 at 6:50 am

Bonzai,

I went to Berkeley, I saw plenty of professors living the good life telling people how "hard" they have it... And that goes for just about every different kind of person you can imagine.

And the academic papers they write (some are so totally ridiculous as to be laughable) are not in a language the average person will be able to read. So it is more a self congratulation club, a lot of "Yeah that's right, you tell 'em".

*EDIT* Take the "Native American" Ward Churchill... a man who was discovered to be NOT Native American and an Academic fraud and plagarist.

2303. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #199064 by al-rawandi on June 25, 2008 at 6:44 am

mordacious1,

Well I hope women don't talk business in the women's locker room. I am not allowed in there, and if business is done, then I want in (actually I might be on to something).

What about all black colleges? No business is done there? No jobs found, no deals struck? It is one more example of the White Male Guilt (we probably deserve some grief, but come on). If you want this to go forward, then it had better go forward on all fronts. I want Grambling U. torn down. I want all women's clubs disbanded. If I have a friday night poker game with my male friends and we talk business, does the government need to send in an FBI strike team to bust in through my door and put an end to this? The government needs to leave private citizens the fuck alone, it is simple.

Do I think they should let women into Augusta? Why not... But it is a PRIVATE club and the government is seeking to regulate a private club, administered by private funds. As much as I may not like the policies, I really cannot tell 300 men what to do (they are private citizens free to congregate however they wish).

Steve,

No problem. Simply show me one instance where feminists are talking about priorities in the world and are ranking problems like the ones I mentioned ahead of whether they can get together and smoke cigars at the Elks club.

I don't like generalizations either, but that post was simply "my experience" qualified by "I don't research this in depth". I am honestly waiting to be convinced otherwise, it would be refreshing.

2304. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199054 by al-rawandi on June 25, 2008 at 6:19 am

advocatus,

Now if you are also a left handed Jewish attorney, that would be something.

2305. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #199052 by al-rawandi on June 25, 2008 at 6:15 am

Fizhburn,

Well... The problem is that I don't hear feminists talking about the big issues, even here. Now they may be doing this, but I don't see it, and to be fair I don't research this in depth.

I would like to see women come out and complain about Rap music and a general culture of misogyny in the African American community. I think it is high time we stopped accepting the terms "Bitch" and "Ho" as acceptable demonstrables for women. I think this is perpetuating a culture of disrespect for women in the African American community, and it is tolerated as "Artistic expression". Sort of like Al Sharpton complaining about Don Imus calling the Rutgers Women's Basketball Team "Nappy headed ho's", while regularly appearing with rap "artists" who say things far worse about black women.

It seems to me, feminists make headlines trying to get (as Podaar notes) on a traditionally all male golf course. I don't see a problem with an all male golf course as long as we have all black colleges, all women clubs, etc...

I may be just be upset by the current political climate where it is simply a sport to blame white men for everything from terrorism to rained out picnics. And this after I went to Saudi Arabia and saw women utterly oppressed, with no hope of an improved life because they cannot even leave the country. So go ahead and try to get your round of golf at Augusta National, but just realize that breaking the barrier of a club with 300 members (universe-wide) is your priority and that says a lot about you.

2306. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199049 by al-rawandi on June 25, 2008 at 5:59 am

If I may throw a quotation out there on gay marriage:

"If gays want to be unhappy too, let them".

*ducks*

2307. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199047 by al-rawandi on June 25, 2008 at 5:52 am

Secularist,

I just started marking you as a troll.

No one here is apologizing for the Wahhabis. And by the way, why don't you learn how to spell "Wahhabi".

Of course if you have some evidence of apologetics for Wahhabis, why don't you post it now. If not, kindly shut the fuck up.

2308. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199044 by al-rawandi on June 25, 2008 at 5:45 am

The Ayatollah Komeini "married" a girl of 9 years old when he was 25. He praised the "qualities" of pre-pubescent girls and advised his followers to do likewise.

One of the first things the Mullahs of the Iranian revolution did when they came to power was to reinstate the law, abolished many years earlier by the devilish Shah Rezi, that allowed men to marry such young girls.

To me, a "culture" that makes people think that this is normal, is morally completely bankrupt. I can't even loath it, only hold it beneath contempt.

Do you have any citation for this claim that Khomeini married a 9 year old. I know he discussed it in general terms in the Tahrirvasiyoleh.

And it was Shah Reza Pahlavi.

But you are correct, the culture that allows this is below contempt.

2309. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198867 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 3:18 pm

Ok gotta go batter some women....

Have to pick up some flour on the way home.

2310. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198863 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 3:16 pm

mordacious1,

Did you know that there is a "wave" of feminism in the Arab world, most notably Egypt, where the women demand to wear the Abaya and veil as a sign of their human right to choose Islam. I doubt they come to the conference... assuming there is one.

2311. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198854 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 3:09 pm

teapot,

Pretty good, but they need Tapatio, otherwise they are just bland....

2312. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198851 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 3:05 pm

Frankus,

Nope, that is why I clarified the statement later with "Those that..." after I was reminded to be specific, but I see you didn't quote that part, I thought you would have.

But I will say, American feminism isn't very useful anymore (IMO), I would like to see the liberal feminist movement issue some statements that actually dealt with the serious issues that women face aroud the world... like being murdered for whatever in Pakistan, or gang raped for not covering their faces.

And yes, Title IX is now an act of retribution and only hurts college athletics in general, again IMO.

*EDIT* as a former college athlete, I am a little biased here as I saw men who worked their whole lives have scholarships taken away to give them to women who only just started a sport, a sport which has zero spectator base.

And remember all of these statements I made with regards to ISLAM, on a thread ABOUT ISLAM. So I appreciate you removing the context... oh wait, no I don't.

2313. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198844 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 2:59 pm

Podaar,

My father (a psychologist) worked for a year (volunteer) at a battered women's shelter. Most of the women were African Americans, and I have no delusions about how hard some women have it in some parts of the US even.

I am extremely upset at people who pretend to be feminists and then turn a blind eye to women being bought and sold (yes traded like a commodity) while worrying about rowing scholarships at colleges here in the US. I mean commmmeee onnnnnn people.

Broke through the ceiling? Nice. I read a study that showed women were better stock traders than men because they don't get wrapped up in the quick profit on a fast turn around.

2314. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198834 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 2:48 pm

fizhburn,

Oh for Christ's sake not you too? Just remember when you go on a wind mill hunt, bring your block quotes.

2315. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198820 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 2:19 pm

Corylus,

Yup. I am the tall one with the long goatee.

2316. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198819 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 2:17 pm

Tera Bat,

You are as mysoginistic as the most devout Muslim.

I don't know how many times I have defended the women on this site who were singled out due to their photos. I insist people be dealt with on the basis of their ideas, and this alone. I dare you to produce one statement where I assault women as a group for some general "flaw" (HINT: you won't find one). I am a misogynist the way Osama Bin Laden is an atheist.

EDIT* P.S. You are spelling "Misogyny" wrong. You might want to get that right before you go all Susan B. Anthony on me.

2317. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198816 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 2:14 pm

Tera Bat,

I've been reading the comments on this forum for the past four days and for the first time in twenty years I'm reconsidering religion. So if your intent is to discourage people from renouncing god, or push them to return to god, by all means, continue to be so abusive

This is what you said. Reading these comments makes you want to go back to religion. Why the hell would you do that? If there isn't a god, my attitude certainly won't affect that reality... where is the logic in this? That's right there is none.

Sciros,

Now you are starting to annoy me. These discussions take any number of directions, some unpredictable. And yes it is reasonable to debate Israel on a thread about Islamism... why? Because some people consider Israel the front line in the battle against Islamism, and thus the issue gets raised. So this is the nature of these forums.

My suggestion to you, compose a nice letter to Josh (Site Admin.) Saying you don't like people getting off topic and this should be policed, rigorously. Cite your reasons (Atheist unity and making people upset enough to return to religion) and see what happens.

That is about all you can do in your effort to control the behavior of others.

2318. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198811 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 2:06 pm

Corylus,

I figured you were joking, my vituperation was also tongue in cheek.

Anyway, it hurts because my feet are Yeti like. Have you seen my family photo?:

http://internetservices.readingeagle.com/editor/archives/bigfoot-1.jpg

2319. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198803 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:56 pm

sssssss,

You must mean Misyar. This is what some Sunnis hold as permissible.

2320. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198800 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:54 pm

Sciros,

Well the touchy feely stuff is nice, and I used to subscribe to that when first began here, but now I don't have time for that. For instance let's say I see someone who is blatantly ignorant about a topic, yet speak as though they have authority.

"I am patient with stupidity, but not with those who are proud of it."

-Edith Sitwell

Wiser words have never been spoken. (Well not recently anyway).

I am with advocatus, I think you are being subtle in your reproach, insinuating such a person is "this" without having to cough up the evidence. I would like to see evidence of the existence of these "douchebag" posts. I am some what incredulous of your nebulous comment (can't help it, this damn incredulous brain of mine).

2321. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198795 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:46 pm

Corylus,

Scrapping? You are the one who said I have "Yetti feet" after I made an innocent comment to you... then you went off on how I was some ass hole meat eater or something. But I forgive.

Anyhow, that is my point... priorities for women, worldwide. As for the glass ceiling, this has been mostly demolished and now women are beginning to excel in all parts of society. But there are plenty of women in politics, all over the world who now have the opportunity to begin to prioritize the women's rights issue. I hope they get that together... as hundreds of thousands of women are raped every year in the Congo. Perhaps we could dedicated some time to that?

2322. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198786 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:29 pm

Sciros,

Name names.

And I don't feel bad eviscerating a bad idea, that is how ideas get stronger, weak ones are thrashed and discarded and new and better ideas emerge in their place. If people are rational then this can be done.

Lesson 1, Don't take things personally.

2323. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198784 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:24 pm

Dhamma,

"V.I. Lenin"

2324. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198777 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:16 pm

Phil,

It is directed at every feminist who complains about the "glass ceiling" (of course competency of women can never be the issue, must be someone else's fault... another discussion) while women are bought and sold in the Gulf countries, while women are stoned and flogged in Afghanistan and Pakistan, while women are burnt alive in South Asia.

And they worry about Title Fucking IX instead. It isn't about the rights of women, it is about getting a pound of flesh from the nearest man available.

2325. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198775 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:13 pm

Sciros,

She was, no doubt, objecting to the people who question her rabid Zionism, and do so assertively.

This logic is shit:

Some Atheists are mean, therefore god.

2326. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198767 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 1:02 pm

Ultrviolet,

"He did six months in Chino for exposing himself to an eight year old. Guy's a petterass".

2327. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198759 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 12:55 pm

Fanusi,

I realized a while ago that feminists are about as useful as "poopy flavored lolly pops". You would think they would at least give two shits about 8 year old Yemeni girls who are forced into marriage then beaten... Fuck no, we need more college scholarships for women's badminton. Talk about ass backwards priorities.

Feminism is a lot more liberal sloganeering. It is something for college sophomores to make signs for and march around on campus. No real substance left.

2328. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198757 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 12:52 pm

How about the mental midgit Tera Bat, who, because some atheists are mean, wants to go back to religion.

How about that for having your head up your ass. Your interpretation of reality is dependent on whether or not people are "mean". Holy shit folks. That kind of thinking belongs in a "place of worship"

2329. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198746 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 12:30 pm

mordacious1,

It is a predominately Shi'a practice known as Mutta'. It is designed to stop "prostitution" when in fact it is precisely prostitution because there is a dowry involved, and it can be a contract as short as one day.

2330. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198731 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 12:06 pm

black wolf,

I have never heard of any such night in Saudi Arabia. Perhaps you are thinking of the Shi'a practice of Mutt'a (temporary marriage).

Muhammad Asad (Auth. The Road to Mecca) recounts how he was in Saudi Arabia and a family sent him a bride and she turned out to be twelve years old, and he sent her home. Of course Asad was born an Austrian Jew named Weisz, and only converted to Islam while working as a reporter in the Middle East, so perhaps he retained some of that European humanism.

2331. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198697 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 11:22 am

Fanusi,

Why is it then that nearly half of all Shoah survivors live in poverty in Israel?

So Bosnia being a state, not a problem for you? And one only for Bosnians, and one only for Croatians, and one only for Kosovars? Do you accept all of these.

And actually there were people who were doing something about the persecution of the Jews, including some Muslim Arabs in N. Africa.

And please don't skip over the Zionist collaboration with the Nazis, as well as 120,000 Jews serving in the German military. It isn't always as simple as you care to paint it. You really do take a simplistic approach to world issues. Beyond this issue.

2332. Should We Rid The Mind of God? A Debate

Comment #198690 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 11:16 am

Steve,

I come to play golf, you come dressed in a pink bunny outfit with a cross bow.... I doubt we will have a good round of golf. Such is debating these IDiots.

2333. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198681 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 11:10 am

Vaal,

At that point Muhammad was in his fifties. Aisha's father Abu Bakr objected to the marriage saying to Muhammad:

AB: "Are we not brothers" (you can't marry my daughter)
Mo: "We are brothers in Islam, therefore she is licit for me to marry".

Thus Muhammad got the consent to marry Aisha. She was one of quite a lot of wives, but was his favorite, and was early on tasked with washing semen stains from Muhammad's garmets.

2334. Should We Rid The Mind of God? A Debate

Comment #198677 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 11:04 am

Tera Bat,

Teratornis had the humor chip removed at the factory.

2335. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198663 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 10:54 am

Everyone should read Imam Khomeini's Tahrirvasiyoleh where he enumerates that is acceptable to perform sex acts with any girl who is no longer Radi'yya (breast feeding) as long as it is short of vaginal sex.

So you can marry a 1 year old, but you have to wait until she is 9 to screw her. Such a touching demarcation!

But if you read the story of A'isha, Muhammad would take baths with her and "fondle" her in the bath, and make her fondle him as well. So even before she was 9, she was essentially molested.

2336. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198635 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 10:29 am

Tera,

I do object to the attempts of some ultra orthodox groups to impose religious law in Israel but they are the minority

And then:

That's been in place since the founding of the state. Personally it doesn't bother me, I'd want a Jewish ceremony anyways (not sure why but I do). In any case it has no affect on people of other faiths who live in Israel only Jews.

Hmmmmm

2337. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198609 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 9:54 am

Tera Bat,

I do object to the attempts of some ultra orthodox groups to impose religious law in Israel but they are the minority.

What about this Rabbinical council that has official status and determines marriages and citizenship?

I agree that there are a lot of myths and legends in Judaism but it has very little dogma in it. Until you've studied the Talmud you can't begin to get an appreciation of how complicated Judaism actually is

One of the defining characteristics of narcissism is the belief that you are "special" and no one can really "understand you".

I guess we have solved this mystery.

2338. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198602 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 9:40 am

Fanusi,

You are over simplifying the issue.

It is very, very easy to criticize when you are not surrounded by enemies who want you dead. But that situation is changing very rapidly for us in Europe. In one of the perverse twists of fate, we're all Israelis now.

Well Israel is bordered, to the north, by a country that is fighting to create a proper democracy, and is getting ready to fight Hezbollah. And the Israelis have pressured the US to refuse aid to the Lebanese government so it can do just that. And the US has tried to arm the Lebanese army to fight Hezbollah.

Israel has a peace treaty with Egypt and Jordan. It will not have trouble having a similar relationship (even more positive perhaps) with Lebanon. The Lebanese are turning on Hezbollah, and as long as Israel lets that go forward, there will be progress. Syria is ready for a peace treaty, but that is not a certainty.

I cannot accept Israel as a "western" country as long as there are certain "anti-democratic" aspects that are institutionalized. But I can consider them far closer to me than the Saudis.

2339. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198598 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 9:34 am

Tera Bat,

And you still willfully ignore the other aspects of people "learned" in Judaism. The nasty comments, the racist remarks, the violence.

You can see that I have plenty of positive things to say about Israel and the potential for further positive change. It is a place filled with a people who are progressive and self critical. This is a characteristic that will IMPROVE Israeli society. Then there are dinosaurs like yourself, who, in the face of rational discourse, maintain a useless mentality.

No one debates the threat under which Israel lives and labors, but Israel does little to help itself in terms of garnering sympathy. And you are a perfect example... You are arrogant, acting like the aid America gives you is your due. You act as if Jews are this "Pure" force, unable to be wrong. You act as if the Arabs are a monolith to be feared and fought as a single unit.

These aren't things I think will be much use to the future of Israel.

Oh and I don't want to hear peep about the Holocaust when we discuss Israel, because Israel allows 40% of Shoah survivors to live below the poverty line, while continuing to receive massive payments from European countries. *Retch*

2340. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198593 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 9:26 am

Advocatus,

Has it changed from the fifties? Yes quite a bit. In fact I would say that secularism increases as time passes, particularly there. It is hard to maintain religious communities in the face of an extremeley modern economy, one that continues to function on Saturday.

If you look at Israeli Universities you see a degree of criticism and liberalism that is above and beyond what takes place in the general public. For instance, at Berkeley, I had a visiting Israeli professor from Ben Gurion University named Oren Yiftochel. The topic was "Israel/Palestine". I was absolutely shocked, I was expecting a one sided diatribe on the evil Arabs, but instead I got a degree of intellectual honesty that was impressive. He was fair and balanced, and I wrote a paper on Deir Yassin, detailing the massacre and the level of knowledge going all the way to Ben Gurion (which is quite damning to the Israeli notion of "Purity of Arms") and he gave me a good grade, maybe because I threw in some comment on Deir Yassin being near Vad Yashem (a mere 1,400 meters away).

Anyhow, Ilan Pappe is also a fervent critic of Israeli policy, and an Israeli.

The criticism of Israeli is far more in depth inside Israel. It is here, in the US, where you see unquestioning allegiance to some crazy ideal. If you read Ha'aretz or the Jerusalem Post you see a lot of editorials that are not just critical of Israeli policy, but scathing. I think this is important. Add this to the fact that there is an exodus from Orthodoxy by the young, and you have a positive basis for change.

The problem in the Muslim world is that there is a flow towards some forms of extremism due to the impotency of current forms of government in the Middle East (Muslim). The humiliation of the Arab countries by a tiny Jewish nation is a problem for these governments. Islamism offers a source of pride and a way to save face. Thus I choose to acknowledge the positive trend in Israeli society while condemning the backward movement in Muslim polities... and the fact that these Muslims tout (loudly) their regression to the model of Ahl al-Salaf al-Salih does not help their case.

2341. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198575 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 9:14 am

Tera Bat,

Oooops

From everything I've heard you say the answer is no. I'm not religious. I don't believe in god, but, I was raised religious, I learned the religion and I can tell you that you know and understand nothing about it. NOTHING in the Tanach is taken at face value by Judaism. Unless you have studied Judaism very carefully for YEARS, you have no understanding of it. And even after years of study you have a rudimentary basic understanding like I have. Judaism is not Islam and not Christianity. One of the major fundamental differences is that Judaism is not concerned with converting the whole world to Judaism.

Baruch Goldstein studied Judaism far more than you did, he went and shot 29 people in the name of Judaism. How about that Rabbi on the Rabbinical Council of Israel who said "A Jewish fingernail is worth more than 10,000 non-Jewish lives."

It seems to me that the more people "know" Judaism the meaner they are. Seems like your theory sucks.

2342. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198555 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 8:46 am

Advocatus,

Agreed, but this does lead me to a random thought. Not anything to debate over but merely a curiousity. If Israel were to have its wet dream of annhialating everyone else in the region(no doubt with lots of blood and gore) what do you think would follow? I have a hard time seeing them just sitting there soaking up the rays. Again, not a debate, just curious as you are the more learned on the issue.

Well I think treating "Israel" as some entity with a united wish is a bit unfair. There are numerous opinions in Israel, the old saying holds "Ask 2 Jews, get 3 opinions." Most Israelis do not want a "bloody" expansion of the state into Arab lands. Most want a Palestinian state that is peaceful and is an economic partner. Some Israelis are whacky fucks who want to take over the "biblical Israel", but these are not the majority, not even close.

Most Israelis are strictly secular and thus don't care about expansion, but only safety in their current situation. I doubt that Israel would ever be strong enough to move on western countries, strictly in terms of man power. And Fanusi is right, most Israelis carry a European ethical and political tradition. Most Israelis are either themselves from Europe or a descended from people who spent hundreds of years in Europe.

Israelis have shown a great deal of friendship to Muslim nations that recognize them, such as Turkey and now even Egypt. I don't think there are enough Israelis with territorial ambitions to make a difference in policy. I personally think Israel should commit itself to total secularism and disband relgious parties, especially those with expansionist designs. And Israel HAS done this, they banned Meir Kahane from the Knesset, and then after his assassination they banned the party Kahane Chai (Kahane Lives). So this is a theme I would encourage.

I wouldn't say that Israel is necessarily "One of us", it does have its unsavory aspects (such as race based citizen laws, among others) but it is certainly a better bet than trying to talk to Hamas which only today finds itself in violation of the not even week old truce with Israel.

2343. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198528 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 8:06 am

Advocatus,

The question I have to ask myself.... If one group in the Middle East was to have nuclear weapons, would I rather it be the Israelis or the Muslims. The answer is pretty simple.

Zionism is relatively harmless beyond this "patch of dirt". But Islamism has world wide aims, and is thus much more dangerous.

Zionists have not carried out a campaign of terror against Europe and the US, Islamists (terrorists) have. If Zionists care to antagonize these people, so be it. But Zionism is in no way the threat that Islam is, especially because Judaism doesn't seek to convert people or kill them.

2344. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198513 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 7:24 am

advocatus,

The shit that really annoys me is this person's attitude, like we owe them or something. She tried to sell the notion that we are throwing knives into their backs... when I ask how, she cites the fact that we asked them not to attack Iraq while we were in the middle of bombing it. I mean, can she not see the obvious reasons there... I guess not.

Israelis act like the money will always be there, and that they can say and do whatever they want. The hubris displayed here is simply unmatched. In a war between Islamism and Zionism I am grudingly able to support a Zionist state, but they sure as hell don't make it easy on me.

2345. Blind Faiths

Comment #198506 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 7:01 am

Tera Bat,

Once again I am going to have to explain Israeli politics and Judaism to you, I might start charging for the service.

The religious Jews never tried to return to Israel because they believe god will do it for them. Most of the Ultra Orthodox Jews think the State of Israel is an abomination.

This is ridiculous. The Neturei Karta believe Israel is an abomination, and these are few in number (very few, only about a dozen or so show up to protest Israel in the US, and maybe 100 inside Israel).

Some other Haredi groups opposed to Zionims:

Edah HaChereidis

And subsidiary groups:

-Satmar
-Dushinky

There is no uinified Haredi voice on Israel. And many live in Israel. Some refuse to vote, some refuse to accept money from the govt., some serve in the military, some actively protest, some don't.

And don't forget 1/3 of Israelis consider the Haredis the most hated group in Israel.

It is really interesting how you say these Haredis refuse to return to Israel, yet there are a whole lot of Haredis in Israel. That math doesn't work.

2346. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198504 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 6:52 am

Fanusi,

What about the genocide in East Timor?

Ooooh not a good approach. You do realize that this wasn't an issue of "Islam". First of all Catholic Indonesian soldiers participated, and Kissinger and Ford expressly approved the invasion, and as you well know Suharto didn't do this for religious reasons. Just like the 1 million people who died during Suharto's purges of Communists, once again supported by the United States. And where did Indonesia get the weapons? That's right, the US.

So while I agree that there is an overall campaign of violence by Muslims, there is no way you can blame East Timor on that wave.

2347. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198503 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 6:48 am

Tera Bat,

So Vin says Jews are always at fault, you say never. What invaluable contributions.

Pay attention al. I was responding to advotecus.

You dishonest toad, just put "Advocatus" in place of Vin, and stick it in your pipe and smoke it. The point was that you accuse people of whitewashing, but you are the queen whitewasher.

Pot-Kettle.

2348. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198502 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 6:46 am

Tera Bat,

A few facts you may not be aware of.

You possess no facts regarding Israel or the Middle East that I am not already aware of. But let's play anyway.

During the first gulf war when the scuds were falling on us, the US asked us not to do anything and just take it. We did it and you have no idea how hard it was, but, we did it anyways. Shamir was very heavily critisized. Our men are not used to sitting around and doing nothing while bombs are falling on their women and children. The tension in the country was palpable. But there were no riots, no attacks, no terror.

How many Israelis were killed in these attacks?

Why didn't America want Israel involved? BECAUSE IT WOULD SPREAD THE CONFLICT. You really have zero clue about how shit works, I mean absolutely Zero. If Israel had attacked Iraq it would have had to use Jordanian airspace and possibly that of other countries. Syria may have been drawn in, we don't know. The United States saved Israeli lives by insisting on inaction.

And I didn't even get a thank you for the fucking money I send to your country, it can be in writing here, you don't have to send me a card. In anticipation I will say "You're welcome for the billions and billions of dollars".

The US gives plenty of money to the Palestinians too

Next to none in comparison, a few tens of millions, and only to the PA which recognizes Israel's right to exist. So don't fucking pull your dishonest comparisons... as soon as I start getting more sympathetic to Israel, I have a conversation with an Israeli. No good deed goes unpunished.

The Yishuv fought in WWII. They volunteered to the British Army and the "Jewish Brigade" was formed and was sent to north Africa to fight the Italians. The Arabs supported the Germans.

Something I might not know? Ha, you are an idiot. There is nothing you are going to tell me about Israeli history I don't already know. I am well aware of the Jewish brigades, and their reconstitution to hunt down Nazis after the war. I am also well aware that some Arab nations supported the Germans. You are going to have to do better than 1st year Middle Eastern history to surprise me.

I have dual citizenship. My parents, brothers, nieces and nephews, most of my aunts uncles and cousins all have dual citizenship. Israel has never underminded the US. You cant say the same about the Muslims, including Palestinians.

Jonathan Pollard, look him up. US Naval officer caught spying for Israel. This was known at the upper levels of the Israeli government, and approved. He was tried and convicted of treason. Personally I think he should have been hung, but I wasn't on the jury.

The Mossad warned the CIA before 9/11 that a big attack on the USA was in the works. We were as horrified as the USA when it happened.

Really? What Israeli politician was it that said "Now the US knows how we feel". Such compassion for the Goyim, I am touched, as touched as a filthy goy can be, anyhow.

2349. Blind Faiths

Comment #198494 by al-rawandi on June 24, 2008 at 6:26 am

advocatus,

Well I think his exposure of the Israeli nuclear program was really just stating the obvious, but it was brave anyhow. But as a point of law, he violated Israeli law, and for that he is imprisoned, and I don't see a problem with that. I don't like the fact that he became a Christian, which seems a bit strange, and of course annoying.

It looks like you have caught Tera Bat trying to monopolize suffering. Wasn't it Jews who tried to keep the Armenian exhibit OUT of the Museum of Tolerance? You would think after 2,000 years of terrible suffering they would have developed a little more compassion. But I notice, whenever suffering gets tied in with money, things get a little unusual.

As for people being thrown off their land, this has happened numerous times since the Jews were evicted from Palestine. The funny thing is most people move on and attempt to deal with the new situation. However Jews maintained a RELIGIOUS link to the land for 2,000 years, and then so-called "atheists" like Tera Bat pretend like this is some kind of secular Jewish goal.

The Israelis always complain; "Palestinians have been refugees for 50 years, when will they give it up." My response is "Jews claimed refugee status for 2,000 years, so the Arabs have about 1,950 years to go."