2401. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #203456 by Goldy on July 3, 2008 at 12:50 am

Mordacious1 - meant to ask - how's your kid? Things settled down yet?

Balach

Gosh, these people are more fundamentalists and extreme than the muslims in pakistan

That's the probelm when people leave their comfort zone - they over compensate! Bit like Brits here...I mean, I have never had so much gin before! Don't even like the stuff, but as an ex-Brit in NZ, I feel culturally bound...hic!

2402. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #203451 by Goldy on July 3, 2008 at 12:41 am

Mordacious1

Your back is still out?

Sure is. And this is a 2 year problem too. Was sitting in a beanbag, daughter crawled towards me and I picked her up. Pain!!! Generally it's fine, but small things trigger it every so often. Soul destroying!
Fanusi, Fanusi, Fanusi...

True, Goldy but the problem isn't the Wahabis - it's Islam itself. Mainstream, orthodox Islam is an abomination.

As regards Islamic art, come on. If you look at that google image search, you find a couple of mosques, some arab writing, and, surprise surprise, a bunch of guys with rocket launchers.

Islam really hasn't produced anything new or original. The Mosque design they are so proud of is just copied from Byzantine cathedrals. "Arabic numerals" and the Zero originated in India.

Islam is just a religion. A nasty one in the grand scheme of things, but just a religion. What were all Muslims before Mo popped out? We're talking of the same people here - they are no different from their ancestors and most see Islam the same way their ancestors saw their religion. At least, the ones I worked with in Syria did. Change will come - all religions wax and wane. We don't have to kill them ;-)
As for original art - apart from Lascaux etc, what is original art? So what if their art isn't original? Neither is Christian art. Or Hindu (well, amybe some of it is - it is the oldest religion, after all). The fact is that that art is recognisably Islamic - it is derived from and earlier age (and they respected the past - I read the Kingdom of Rhum named itself after Rome). Islam didn't place barbarism on it's adherents - people did that and fairly recently. As for the rocket launchers, shall I google some Northern Ireland murals for you?
The religion is barbaric - but the people are pliable. Islam will die out. So will Christianity. OK, maybe not die out fully, but it will be a tiny minority religion, like Nestorianism. Muslims, in my experience, can change. If they couldn't, apostasy would not be a problem, but it is. Blame the Quran, Islam and the religion, but don't angle your hatred at the people. They just follow the religion....in many cases very badly.

2403. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #203373 by Goldy on July 2, 2008 at 6:21 pm

Taj Mahal also springs to mind...
Samarkand
http://images.google.co.nz/images?um=1&hl=en&q=islamic samarkand
No shortage of Islamic art.

Not all Muslims are wahabis

In December 2004, Jordan's King Abdallah warned of a "Shia crescent" from Lebanon to Iraq to Iran that would destabilize the entire region. Iraq's Shias had demonstrated against Jordan in the past, condemning the country for its steady trickle of suicide bombers who crossed into Iraq to commit atrocities against Shia civilians. In September 2005, Saudi Foreign Minister Saud Al Faisal warned that a civil war in Iraq would destabilize the entire region and complained that the Americans had handed Iraq over to Iran. In response, Iraqi Interior Minister Bayan Jabr called the Saudi foreign minister a "Bedouin riding a camel" and described Saudi Arabia as a one-family dictatorship. Jabr, who had commanded the Badr corps, also condemned Saudi human-rights abuses - particularly the repression of Saudi Arabia's approximately two million Shias - and he mocked Saudi Arabia's treatment of its women.

From http://bostonreview.net/BR31.2/rosen.php

2404. Help protest against misguided report on UK faith schools

Comment #203372 by Goldy on July 2, 2008 at 6:16 pm

Letters in the Independent

Faith schools and a free society

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown (30 June) is right that religion should not be allowed to make ghettos. Cristina Odone's report on faith schools, published by the Centre for Policy Studies, misses the point. The point of is not that faith schools have discriminatory admission codes and employment practices, cream-skim pupils, or turn away children in care, although they do. Rather, what makes faith schools fundamentally bad for children is that they are more concerned with the inclusion of religion â€" the religion of the child's parents â€" than the inclusion, wellbeing and educational needs of the child.

According to Ms Odone, Islamic schools are crucial to the emancipation of girls because they give parents the confidence to keep them in school for longer. But relegating girls to Islamic schools where they are indoctrinated in their parents' beliefs, segregated on the basis of sex (imagine how unacceptable this would be if it was based on race), veiled, prevented from mixing and playing with boys, prevented from doing sports, dancing and so on is anything but.

In Islamic schools students are taught to despise unbelievers, and to hold males and females as unequal.

Ibrahim Lawson, headteacher of Nottingham Islamia School, clearly states their main purpose: "The essential purpose of the Islamia school, as with all Islamic schools, is to inculcate profound religious belief in the children." Education, however, is meant to give children access to science, reason and advances of the 21st century. It is meant to level the playing field irrespective of and despite the family the child is born into. It is meant to allow children to think freely and critically â€" something that religion actually prohibits and often punishes. Contrary to Ms Odone's claims, this can only be guaranteed by a secular educational system.

Until children are given precedence over their parents' religion, the Government, with its commitment to faith schools, will continue to fail them.

Maryam Namazie

Spokesperson, Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain, London WC1

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown in her columns has continually and laudably called for the protection of personal freedom. Yet she reacts to the publication of the recent report into faith schools by calling on the Government to refuse to facilitate parents with a faith in passing on that faith to their children.

Where does Yasmin stand? Where do we stand as a society? Do we respect freedom to pass on a faith and also the time-honoured principle that parents have primary responsibility for their children? Or are we in fact backing the approach adopted by totalitarian regimes that the children belong first to the state?

In 1937, Hitler said, "The youth of today is ever the people of tomorrow. For this reason we have set before ourselves the task of inoculating our youth with the spirit of this community of the people at a very early age, at an age when human beings are still unperverted and therefore unspoiled. This Reich stands, and it is building itself up for the future, upon its youth. And this new Reich will give its youth to no one, but will itself take youth and give to youth its own education and its own upbringing."

Chilling words, which were never more timely.

Karen Rodgers

Cambridge

2405. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #203368 by Goldy on July 2, 2008 at 6:01 pm

Why does islam hate beauty - the reason is simple, their faith strips them of any knowledge of beauty outside of the Koran.

http://www.lacma.org/islamic_art/intro.htm

Where are all the mediaeval murals in English churches?
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/england/oddington-st-nicholas-church.htm

2406. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #203340 by Goldy on July 2, 2008 at 4:31 pm

Vinelectric

Forget about people being manipulated by trash journalism, we know what they're like. This is not supposed to be a tabloid forum. Or is it?

If I can educate just one person, if I can get just one person to think before putting finger to keyboard, I'll feel better.
I have learnt soooo much being here. I really think the way I see things has improved. It annoys me to see journo-trash manipulating so easily. I will not forget about people being manipulate - I have to show them. This is a clear-thinking oasis - it is. And it can remian so only by diligence and application of clear thinking.
Otherwise we could end up like some non-believing wooter or Robert O'Brien.

Brian, I think I'd like that drink now!

2407. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #203335 by Goldy on July 2, 2008 at 4:23 pm

Like I said, decius, I feel a bit down. Nothing like a damn sore back to suck the will to live out of a person! Do you know how much one contorts to wipe and arse? I need a poo but I'm too scared to go!
We worry about how a tiny minority react to something by reading an inflammatory headline - I mean, look at it. "Muslims outraged" - like all of them?? "Cute puppy" - what sort of journalism is that? Not all Muslims are that cowed - they weren't in Syria, anyway. Or Iran - mullahs accept money to fuck off and let the party carry on. Might even accept a bottle of scotch.
What is worrying is a headline like this
"Obama Wants to Expand Role of Religious Groups"
Why the fuck does religion have anything to do with the running of a country?

8teist - don't tell me there's another flu here! Wife and daughter come back after 3 weeks in China - I want to enjoy them, not lie in bed!! Aaaargh!!!!

2408. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #203326 by Goldy on July 2, 2008 at 4:14 pm

8teist - yeah, I know. Just that people are being manipulated by the authors of this piece of trash journalism. Playing right into the hands of those wanting a real "clash of civilisations".
At the risk of sounding like a right wingeing Pom, that's another peeve of mine! :-D
And my ears are blocked, my back hurts and I have to use some piece of equipment tomorrow that has the longest waiting list and truckies are going to block Auckland (along with other major cities) so I might miss that window.

And TP, just be a bit less belliegerent - just today. Please. I feel crappy, I want to enjoy some time here and don't need the confrontation. Cheers, mate.

2409. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #203324 by Goldy on July 2, 2008 at 4:10 pm

I am glad to learn that there is such thing as an Arab atheist left. Last time that I checked they were being executed for apostasy.

A bit stereotypical, mate. There are quite a few communists in the Arab world who do not believe in gods. There's actually quite a few who believe in gods like most European Christians do. There are a lot that don't believe in gods - I know, I worked with them. Your comments are akin to us Euros saying all Yanks are bible bashing cretinist YEC IDiots.
Shall we just count to 10, take a deep breath and not let the initial emotions get the better of our minds?

2410. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #203319 by Goldy on July 2, 2008 at 4:03 pm

Comment #203292 by GoodbyeGodNZ
Mate, that's a bit harsh and uncalled for. The doctor that delivered my kid was an Iraqi. I know Arabs here in the Uni who don't particularly give a shit about religion. In North Shore there is a Coptic Christian church - normally full of Arabs.
Most of the convered Muslims I know here are Malaysian or Indonesian. The Muslims in this case are Pakistani and it appears only one said anything. All the others are just rolling their eyes and waiting for the ill informed backlash from the great unwashed whiteys out there who just read the headlines.

8teist - you don't have the cooking channel on Sky? Keith Floyd is great - love the way he gets pissed as he cooks. All chefs should be like him :-)

2411. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #203283 by Goldy on July 2, 2008 at 3:01 pm

LAst Indian I saw was Canadian. Think his name was Lundberg or something (long time ago - he was an engineer that came out to Syria to put out a fire at a well head). Blue eyes, very blond hair...

2412. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #203280 by Goldy on July 2, 2008 at 3:00 pm

Typical Mail trash. Part of the demonisation of immigrants of predominantly different race who happen to practise the religion in question I'll bet. Shame they don't do the stories of the white outraged readers of their rag - white Christians outraged at youths or outraged Christians demand black poice officer reassigned.
Why is this article here?

2413. Can't Darwin and God get along?

Comment #202774 by Goldy on July 2, 2008 at 12:53 am

Philip, the little muffin was a bit rude and petulant to me too. And he tried to tell me Judaism has its roots in the Iron Age, bless! When pointed out that the roots of the mythology was firmly in the Bronze Age and earlier, he told me that some J character wrote the Pentateuch in the Iron Age...such schoolboy logic :-)
He's conpletely confused about his religion too - he's going through puberty. I think the Robert O'Brien referred to by others as having a blog is a different character. This one is too infantile to be that one! :-)

2414. Can't Darwin and God get along?

Comment #202763 by Goldy on July 2, 2008 at 12:21 am

Ah I see a genius who got banned from other sites has now turned up to vomit lyrically about his incredible knowledge!

Aw, c'mon, Phil et al! Give him a wee chance. I'll admit to being a bit snotty with him on the Mormon thread, but I have a serious backache (never, ever, pick up a 6 month old up while lying on a beanbag!) and my ears are plugged - left has no hearing and right is filling up :-( Bubba, sorry for that!
I don't know - he has a rather large head and an ego inversely proportional to his intelligence but I thikn he's just a kid. C'mon, admit it, you know he sounds like some spotty 6th former (d they still have a 6th form?) who has read a book or two. The use of Greek just reminded me of my mate at school who was doing classical Greek...
As it is, he is as confused as a teenager. Ask him about his religion. He calls it Christianity but he can't accept the doctrine that defines it. Give him a year or two and he'll become a Buddhist.
If he is older than 18, I worry for him - most would have grown out of that stage by now ;-) Maybe he's still spotty - I was and, like him, I over-compensated too...

2415. Can't Darwin and God get along?

Comment #202744 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 11:30 pm

You aren't the first and you won't be the last vapid atheist I steamroll over, I assure you.

Evidence of this?

Edit - By the way, running over Ken with your Tonka toy doesn't count...

2416. Can't Darwin and God get along?

Comment #202738 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 11:11 pm

Bugger me, that intellectual pygmy O'Brien jumped threads?
Waaahahahahahah!
Hey, Pygmy, what evidence have you of God?

2417. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #202684 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 7:58 pm

Yes, he (or they) did. The Documentary Hypothesis has been pretty well established, your delusions to the contrary notwithstanding.

No, they didn't. Copied. Took other mythology from an earlier age. Is Homer modern? My Iliad may suggest he is, going by the published date in my book.
See, you are not on good ground here. Us theomachoi know more than you.
Anyway, you are too stupid to converse with.
Answer Brian, not me - I have lost interest in you.

2418. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #202680 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 7:51 pm

Goldy, my good dumb ass, J wrote in the 10th century BC and he is the earliest author of the Pentateuch. The 10th century BC is in the Iron Age.

Bobby, Bobby, Bobby. J didn't write anything.
Such militant ignorance.

2419. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #202648 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 7:11 pm

If you are referring to the Bible, it is from the Iron Age, dumb arse.

Well, there you have it. Genesis is from the Iron Age.
Stupid man, the Bible is a compilation of many different sources, some dating back to maybe even the late Stone Age. Are you saying cuneiform Mesapotamia was Iron Age?
Let's see - pick Gilgamesh (http://who2.com/gilgamesh.html) - about 2700BC.
Wikipedia puts the Iron age in the Middle East at 12th century BC

Classically, the Iron Age is taken to begin in the 12th century BC in the ancient Near East, ancient Persia, ancient India (with the post-Rigvedic Vedic civilization), and ancient Greece (with the Greek Dark Ages).

You can't even get your facts right! Your dates are completely out - and you have the cheek to call us stupid.
Not even worthy of further dicourse.
Robert O'Brien, you are the weakest link. Goodbye.

2420. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #202646 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 7:04 pm

I would have to take a chisel to my head to descend to the average level of intelligence here; thus, in the future, if you think you spot an error in one of my posts, just assume it is your mediocre intellect at work.

I'll send you one.
Sooooo, God? Existance? Without Goedel - or is that too hard for you? Oh, yes, of course, "You just won't understand" :-)
Idiot.

2421. Can't Darwin and God get along?

Comment #202632 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 6:20 pm

Kestrel, regarding your comment #202616 - would you think the same if he presented the same argument for Father Xmas? Zeus? Odin? Probably not. You'd probably think he's a bit touched upstairs or gone all New Age or something. Well, that's how I feel even though he is talking about God. God is just a feeling one has, not a being or god that explains the gaps. Gaps are ignorance, ignorance due to lack of data, research, time - not lack of wanting to find out or education.
You think that there can be some reconciliation between religion and the rational. Maybe - depends on what religion. But this religion one cannot - look at the corrosive effect of IDiots on American and, creepingly, British, Australian and other education. Heck, look at this headline
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/politics/02campaigncnd.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
We have to pander to the religious? Why? Where are the headlines saying presidential candidates seek atheist votes? Or that someone can sit in the House of Lords purely for their lack of beliefs?
No, Kestrel, you join forces with the religious at your peril - they want you, totally and utterly. Your views will count for nothing - it's this soul of yours they are after, your "salvation" from sins even you have no idea about. To give them relevance means your sexuality will be what they determine, your hours of shopping (what's that? Oh, yeah, they already do that!), what you can do with your free time and, if they want, how you are disposed of when you die.
Want more examples?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7265404.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7163391.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6278568.stm
(Gosh, that wasn't hard - all in one country!)

2422. It can be right to discriminate against the religious

Comment #202534 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 3:27 pm

Possums are to NZ what cane toads are to Aussie.

2423. It can be right to discriminate against the religious

Comment #202529 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 3:19 pm

I would, Brian, I would. But if DoC don't come after me, then some iwi will certainly raise some objection...
As it is, my back garden is prime bush. Bunch of kauri and koru and stuff which I can't cut down. Perfect for possum...

2424. It can be right to discriminate against the religious

Comment #202515 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 2:56 pm

Al, PM sent.
Macs Gold? It's OK, I s'pose...
I'm rather partial to Emmerson's brews. And of course, there's Galbraiths near the medschool....but beer has gone up - it's already almost $9 a pint in Galbraiths :-(
The world as I know it is coming to an end...

2425. It can be right to discriminate against the religious

Comment #202507 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 2:41 pm

I'll look it up and PM you, Al :-)
Not sure about the kangas, unless it's just the meat. Aussie critter, you know... Now a monotreme like the platypus...

2426. It can be right to discriminate against the religious

Comment #202500 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 2:36 pm

My party? the Rational Social-Darwinists, or the 'Razis'

If that's pronounced like I think it is, you'll have problems. Hordes of Catholics will flock to you thinking you're something to do with the current Pope...

2427. It can be right to discriminate against the religious

Comment #202496 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 2:32 pm

OK, Al, you got my vote. Ohh....can't vote in the US. Come to NZ.
:-)

2428. It can be right to discriminate against the religious

Comment #202483 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 2:26 pm

I see nothing wrong with social Darwinism, however, or eugenics, and think we need to re-evaluate it.

I don't really like the use of Darwinism here - it's not breeding he published (along with Wallace) but evolution.
Otherwise, I have to say when reading the papers in the morning, sometimes I have the same thought. Worked in Sweden...
Aaaah, opening myself to a volley from Clearthinker, aka Wee Flea, aka the idiot Robertson.

2429. Can't Darwin and God get along?

Comment #202477 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 2:22 pm

People debate about what that means and how great the separation is, but in articulations that I find most congenial, that entails God giving some freedom to the world. We have a free will to choose good or choose evil.

So Hell is what? An alternative heaven?
I like the way they always seem to make God sound all benevolent with his free choice and free will. Yep, we can be evil, but we will be eternally punished for it, punished in the most unimaginably horrible way. Nice choice.

2430. Can't Darwin and God get along?

Comment #202471 by Goldy on July 1, 2008 at 2:19 pm

Can't Darwin and God get along?

Of course they can, argues physicist and theologian Karl Giberson, if only many believers were more sophisticated and atheists less dogmatic.

Not quite how I'd phrase it. More like....
"Sure they can. There's no God - what's the problem?"

2431. Help protest against misguided report on UK faith schools

Comment #202125 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 11:36 pm

I replied to his comment with my own wee rantette. I'm not totally sure how they can play the vistim card. My comment on that thread just summed up my feelings...

2432. Help protest against misguided report on UK faith schools

Comment #202110 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 9:49 pm

Want to know what the religious think?

This is a really odd argument especially coming from Westerners. Judging that several evangelical atheist books have made it to the top of the best sellers list, that the authors have received much media attention, interview time even on conservative media outlets, such as FOX news, not to mention outlets such as Youtube, forums that are available to the public, I have to wonder who has denied you the right to criticize religion? If anything, you've been provided an open door.

I've attended several universities where students and Professors lambasted religion with free reign. If there's even been a moment in history where the atheist gets his time on the pulpit it's now.

http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,1350,I-believe-that-there-is-no-God,Penn-Jillette-thisibelieveorg,page6#201452

This was my reply
http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,1350,I-believe-that-there-is-no-God,Penn-Jillette-thisibelieveorg,page6#201622

2433. Help protest against misguided report on UK faith schools

Comment #202100 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 9:09 pm

So institutionalised that we allow fuckwits like these to roam the streets
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7482616.stm

Edit - and yet they don't question the titular head of their sect being a woman...

Fuckwits.

2434. Help protest against misguided report on UK faith schools

Comment #202095 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 9:04 pm

In the UK, I believe it's partly because religion is institutionalized, but probably due to the fact that religious people vote and have a loud voice.

So institutionalised that we even let people sit (unelected, as far as I know) in the House of Lords purely because they are, errrr, religious.

2435. Help protest against misguided report on UK faith schools

Comment #202092 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 9:01 pm

Why do you Brits put up with this "faith schools" garbage, anyway?

Keep everyone happy? Guilt of empire? Equality for all? Who knows...
Question to all - who pays for these things? Taxpayer (as usual) or do they get their funding privately?

2436. Jesus and Mo on Militant Atheists

Comment #202071 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 7:32 pm

http://www.jesusandmo.net/2006/03/01/lent/
Oh dear, this one does have me in stitches!

2437. A secular world is a sane world

Comment #202068 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 7:23 pm

Secondsoprano
I hang my head in shame...sort of... ;-) I'll do something about it tomorrow..

2438. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #202066 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 7:21 pm

Plus, one of the grand errors I think you guys make is holding to a monolithic view of the scientific community. "any scientist you care to mention" is not necessarily going to be an atheist or a die-hard evolutionist.

No, but they all, cretinist or normal, have to subject their research in peer reviewed publications. If the sums don't add up, they have to try again. Cretinists have been trying to make the wrong answer fit the sums unsuccessfully for a long time.

However, my doctrinal beliefs are quite common, or at least were a generation or two ago

Education - that's why they were common "a generation or two ago". Research, findings and publications showing the results of this research. Polio was common a generation or two ago - it no longer is (except in the more religiously ignorant areas...).

And most any sect or system you care to name is going to claim superior correctness as that is why they are distinct from everyone else.

Good - at least now we understand that you understand that you are holding on to religiously held dogmatic views which, becasue they are in YOUR holy book (mythology) they must, in your mind, be correct. No matter if they are not, you will forever maintain them as correct.
Well, that settles it - you are militantly ignorant, proud of it and to your dying day will never admit you are wrong. I feel sorry for you. If your ignorance is such that it is a comfort to you, go. Stop wasting our time.

2439. CFI-UN Hamid Karzai Letter

Comment #202064 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 7:11 pm

Christopher, as I said before
http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,2640,-Town-moves-against-Islamic-school,BBC,page5#185447
Corruption is terrible - what recourse do the people have against it? What does NATO do to stop it? Given our "Cultural sensitivities" issues - it's their culture and we mustn't interfere - what do you think the ordinary Afghan can do? They're fucked by their leaders and they know that NATO won't do anything other than build a few things. Nice though these things are, there's a bunch of Pakistani puppets that come over and destroy everything as soon as NATO goes away. As for putting their faith in their own troops and police - well, you're a soldier there, would you?
As Styrer asks, what do you think should be done?

2440. CFI-UN Hamid Karzai Letter

Comment #202042 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 5:03 pm

The last act of an empire should be to educate the people that it is about to leave alone, to show them how to run a country and how to take care of their own.

Malaysia? Singapore? *Indonesia? *Philipines? *Korea (south), Hong Kong, South Africa, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Ireland - apart form the starred ones, all were coloured pink at one time and all are independent now and even if we deplore the corruption of some, all seem to work and understand this democracy thing (even the ones that are "democracies" like Singapore work). So why not the others?

Edit - silly me, how could I forget - India. Multi ethnic, large, third world, first world, chaotic and yet booming - and a democracy and one which we Brits pulled out of rather quickly.

2441. CFI-UN Hamid Karzai Letter

Comment #202033 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 4:28 pm

Just reading the posts...
Al

I asked him what he thought about such a disgusting occurence, and he told me that this was tough cookies for the guy. He claimed that he was distributing the literature around and that the Afghans had decided what the law of the land should be and this was it. He said "this is democracy, and this is what you Americans claimed you wanted to give us."

Dunno about you but this sounds like frustration to me. I imagine it must be hard to have your country go from monarchy to communist to religious inspired and fractional warlordism to even deeper religionism back to warlordism and narcocracy to something Pashtun with religious overlay, installed by NATO (or, in teh eyes of everyone, the US) and then be told "Hey, this is fucked, eh?" In a way, your mate is right - it is what was wanted by NATO. A democracy. The results are hardly a surprise - even in the UK it is asserted that many families vote as the patriarch says (no guesses which group the finger is pointed at there).
Fanusi

The state needs to be utterly broken destroyed to the point that the people realise that they are defeated beyond question.

What, like Afghanistan? Somalia? Like the notice one sometimes sees in a shop - if you break it, you buy it. We have bought Afghanistan - we can't just leave it in the corner hoping it will fix itself. We need to spend big to get it going again. Germany had the Marshall plan - not sure what the Soviets spent in the east but I am assuming it was less than the West (US) spent in the west. Same with Japan.
I really think there may be some frustration at the naivite implied at the public expressions of surprise...

2442. CFI-UN Hamid Karzai Letter

Comment #202012 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 3:33 pm

http://www.afghan-network.net/Ethnic-Groups/
Always a mistake to lump a nation under a stereotype.
Even Pakistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan

2443. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #201990 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 2:41 pm

"Otherwise, perhaps you might want to stop wasting our time."

This is rich.

No, heartfelt.

This is not difficult. I obviously do not believe the FSM meets the criteria.

It is for you, matey boy. God IS the FSM. As the FSM is a man made creation, God is man made too. Resorting to Goedel will not help you - that's his argument and for all I know he just didn't have one or two proofs available to finish his equation. We want your argument. We want your interpretation of Goedel - for all we know you completely misunderstood him - sure as shit you misunderstood Christianity (and this despite, I believe, a lifetime of indoctrination).
Why do YOU think God exists. Forget Goedel - he's dead, he can't hold your hand.

2444. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #201668 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 2:55 am

I have no objection to a good discussion, but I just can't be having with "you are all to stupid or ignorant to understand".

As I said it would be. I'm a fucking prophet, me! Hear that, Bob? Got your number on your first comment! You can't even answer a simple question without evasion, distortion and plain not answering. God - so evident, so easy to prove, yet you can't even give us an inkling of an idea of how to consider thinking he might exist outside of a feverish mind. Damn, no wonder you don't want to go on to telling me how Jesus was not a continuation of Egyptian mythology.
It does not surprise me that you have taken to mangling even a simple thing as a religion that is writ in stone and doctrinal to try and fit it into what passes for what you laughingly call an intellect. You can't even do religion properly! You don't accept the trinity, you don't think the virgin birth is important - why? Because you know they are crap. Cornerstones of the religion you are defending and you can't even consider thining they are important. If not them - why God? Because of a mathematical model and some circular gibberish?
I shake me head. So much promise, such and, what were your words? Ah, yes - an EPIC FAIL.

2445. I believe that there is no God.

Comment #201664 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 2:43 am

Christies - it about $35 for a litre. Only 37%, mind, but tasty. And a nice bottle to boot.
I sometimes feel I have to apologise - anger is a silly emotion, clouds the mind. I like to tell, to explain, not to rant. But sometimes the amount of crap spouting out of mouths and fingers is just too much.

2446. I believe that there is no God.

Comment #201633 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 12:52 am

Another peeve of mine. I would apologise, but I think this time I'll wait for a retraction first.

NZ gin, eh? Who'd have thought it would have such and effect :-D

2447. I believe that there is no God.

Comment #201622 by Goldy on June 30, 2008 at 12:30 am

Judging that several evangelical atheist books have made it to the top of the best sellers list, that the authors have received much media attention, interview time even on conservative media outlets, such as FOX news, not to mention outlets such as Youtube, forums that are available to the public, I have to wonder who has denied you the right to criticize religion? If anything, you've been provided an open door.

Evangelical atheist. Odd choice of word to describe it...

Main Entry: 1evan·gel·i·cal
Pronunciation: \ËŒÄ"-ËŒvan-ˈje-li-kÉ™l, ËŒe-vÉ™n-\
Variant(s): also evan·gel·ic \-ik\
Function: adjective
Date: 1531
1: of, relating to, or being in agreement with the Christian gospel especially as it is presented in the four Gospels
2: protestant
3: emphasizing salvation by faith in the atoning death of Jesus Christ through personal conversion, the authority of Scripture, and the importance of preaching as contrasted with ritual
4 acapitalized : of or relating to the Evangelical Church in Germany boften capitalized : of, adhering to, or marked by fundamentalism : fundamentalist coften capitalized : low church
5: marked by militant or crusading zeal : evangelistic

Maybe the last definition might fit...
So, you are worried about a few books (what, pray tell, is the best selling book? And what follows that one? and which book do a prtion of 1.6 billion people try and memorise in a foreign language?) adn some interviews. Oddly, every Sunday there appears to be a propaganda house or two open, where God and Jesus are, not discussed, but exalted. Every Sunday! And just to make sure there's not much else to do - the shops are restricted. Does Scotland still have Sunday drinking hours? Islam restricts the freedom of anyone not Muslim - Malaysia has an interesting story...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7475950.stm
Looking at my money, I see Queen Liz is Regina, D.G. Regina (look it up). On becoming a New Zealander, yes, I had an affirmation or an oath to take (nothing to do with atheism, I'm told - more to do with those that follow other gods). The UK has people sitting in the House of Lords whose only qualification is that they worship God. I read the papers and see columnists who I would not trust to wipe their arses properly but who are allowed to write and be published because they write about God, Jesus and other mythology (Look up Garth in the New Zealand Herald). I am ridiculed for invoking an old god but nary an eyebrow is raised if I mention God. I was baptised, without my permission, in the name of God.
I'm sorry if I find your words fucktardy of the highest order but that's the way it is. You Christians have been shitting on us all your lives, Christians have killed my ancestors and shat on their culture - and you whine about a few books adn some radio interviews.
What a pathetic shit you are. Beneath even any thought of contempt.

2448. Your Brain Lies to You

Comment #201616 by Goldy on June 29, 2008 at 11:31 pm

Weddings and commitments need not be religious anymore than birthdays. The belief that they must, I think, is somewhat of a dogma advanced by the faithful.

I know - hell, both of us are atheist so the whole religion thing is completely absent (well, apart from Xmas - but then, how religious is that, really?).
It's just me - it is a ceremony with some drama and some higher power that is binding me to my wife and her to me for the rest of our lives. It isn't like animals pair bonding for life - a bit of courtship then babies. It was a ceremony, a man made ceremony that invoked a higher power to legitimise our union.
Just becasue there were no gods called on didn't, to me, make it any less religious. The fact that I was wearing an orange bula shirt (Fijian for Hawaiian shirt) and a lei didn't detract from the fact that the ceremony had a quality of otherness to it.
Why not just go to a registry office nad sign the documents and get the certificate to show that we had decided to stick together for life? Indeed, why not, in this day and age, just acknowledge online that we were a "pair"? Why a ceremony? Because it means something, it is a rite and it satisfies the religious meme we all seem to have in one way or another.
That is why, even if "irreligious", I saw it as religious.
And I am wearing a ring too - ooooh, the symbolism... ;-)

Mord1, I don't think the minister gave a monkeys either, but he liked me as I was holding his daughter (she was, I think, 3) while he officiated and I let her hold the rings for us. Totally unplanned, she was just there and wanted a cuddle. He was busy, I wasn't...well, I was, but you know what I mean :-)

2449. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #201612 by Goldy on June 29, 2008 at 11:18 pm

I've had more than an introduction to mathematics, and the holes exist only in your head.

Personal conjecture - care to back that up?
Obviously we all (or should that read ALL) have had more than an introduction to methematics - it appears to be wired into us and manifests itself at an early age (give me time and I'll bring up the research - painting a room at the mo, so...). We have all gone to school and we have all used, as indeed we still do, use mathematics in everyday life.
If it don't fit, it just don't fit. Proving a theory doesn't make it fact, does it? It only proves the theory, which might be wrong. Goedel has a theory, he has a model to back it up, but still there are questions and the theory is being found wanting.
There just isn't a God - God is not needed for any of the phenomena ascribed to him (or any other god), his usefulness is lessening each tick of the clock - can you say he exists or do you have to concede he is a throwback to our evolutionary past in terms of ascribing natural event to?

2450. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #201611 by Goldy on June 29, 2008 at 11:11 pm

Your inability to apprehend it is not my problem.

It is, though, isn't it. You came here - we didn't come to you. You gave us a supposition and we questioned it. You have to show you are correct - the fact that your arguments are circular nonsense is not our problem - we know God is with the other gods in men's imaginations, not in existance. You cannot show God or gods exist, so you are wrong.
Saying you are not and that we don't understand is playground argumentation.