201. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #50385 by darwin2 on June 17, 2007 at 4:10 pm

Comment #50307 by steve99 on June 16, 2007 at 3:43 pm

"Compelled by what, exactly?

I would also be fascinated to know how you know that he is infinite (do you have some sort of deity size estimator? What order of infinite - Aleph 0, Aleph 1, or greater?), how is is all-knowing, and all-powerful (do you realise that those terms are philosophically and logically meaningless? and as for loving, merciful and perfectly ('perfectly'?) just, again, how do you know? How do you know that he isn't apathetic and uncaring? How would the universe look different if he was?"

"I am honestly interested. You have applied a series of very definite quantitative attributes to this supposed deity, so presumably you have a reason to do that."

As I have tried to make clear in previous statements, it is scientifically impossible at this moment in time to prove God exists or does not exist. We humans will get or may not get an answer when we die. If we wake up conscious after our physical death, the scientific evidence for the existence of God will be available to us. Subjectively, I believe without a doubt that we will wake up conscious after death. Objectively I realize that your contention that life ceases after death could be correct and if you are correct we will not consciously know whether God exists or does not exist.

I conclude that God is infinite because I believe the universe is infinite and modern cosmological theories seem to confirm my belief. And if the universe is infinite and God created the universe, then God must be infinite.

The terms all –knowing and all-powerful are philosophically and logically meaningful. These terms are discussed in philosophical courses in every accredited university on this planet. They have also been discussed by philosophers throughout the history of mankind.

I know God is loving, merciful and perfectly just from my observations in life. My analysis of Reincarnation and Karma has led me to this conclusion. Reincarnation and Karma with some of my additional insights answer every question I have about the human condition.

If God was apathetic and uncaring, we wouldn't be having this dialogue now.

202. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #50315 by darwin2 on June 16, 2007 at 4:45 pm

Comment #50255 by newatheist on June 16, 2007 at 4:13 am

"Oh, and do you understand Pascal's Wager, fully or at all?"

To believe in God because of Pascal's Wager would be a silly, blasphemous and unscientific reason for believing in God. There are thousands of man made gods but there is only one true God who is the Supreme Designer and Creator of all that exists. I feel certain that all believers and non-believers are destined for eternal life in heaven. No exceptions! All that is required for our salvation is to learn, obey and master God's laws of physics. That is the reason I believe most scientists are highly developed spiritual beings. Scientists are heavily involved in studying God's laws of physics and that is exactly what is required for salvation.

"So what you're saying is we all survive death. So what have I lost? Should I start believing just so I can "save face" in the afterlife, because I'll be in heaven thinking "Ah, SHIT!" That Darwin2 dickhead was right all along... Oh god, here he comes now. Boy is my face red..."
"Is this hell? Embarrasment in heaven? You said in another post you don't believe in (eternal) hell. So what are the disadvantages of disbelief?"

Yes that is correct We all survive after death and we are all destined for eternal life in heaven. No exceptions! Yes you are also correct, I don't believe in an eternal hell. But I do believe in a temporary hell and our planet is a temporary hell. Earth is one of many temporary hells in our universe where evolving souls work out their transgressions against God's laws of physics and strive to free their souls from physical bondage. God mercifully designed our life spans in this temporary hell to be very short, only a nano second on the eternal clock of time and in the eternal scheme of things. God also tempered this temporary hell of Earth with great beauty like the oceans, lakes, trees, flowers and a view at night of part of God's magnificent universe for all, even the most spiritually compromised souls, to see and enjoy. God only wants us to learn to obey His laws which are simply "OBEY, LEARN AND MASTER THE LAWS OF PHYSICS." God leaves no intelligent being behind. All intelligent beings are destined to earn eternal life. Some just take longer than others to learn to obey and master God's laws of physics and earn eternal life.

That Earth is a temporary hell can be demonstrated by the way our planet operates. Here the strong exploit and consume the weak. It is seen in nature. The small and weaker fish, insects, animals and humans are exploited and consumed by the stronger ones. Regarding humans, the exploitation of the weaker by the stronger is quantifiably measurable from the 2001 economic study by the World Bank that showed that 78% of the world's population or 4.8 billion people live in poverty. Another quantitative measure is the stark reality that in the 20th Century 160 million people were killed by 104 wars and genocides and 22 of those wars and genocides resulted in more than one million people being killed. In the 21st Century wars, genocides and exploitation continue with no end is sight.

I believe the doctrine of eternal damnation in the burning fires of hell is greatest con game perpetrated on the human race. This pathetic and abominable doctrine has caused unnecessary mental suffering to millions and perhaps billions of people who have had the terrible misfortune to be swindled by this atrocious doctrine. Moreover the doctrine of eternal damnation is an insult to a loving and merciful God who thrives on perfect justice.

Let's examine this pathetic doctrine of eternal damnation. First how long is eternity? Is it a 1000 years? Is it a billion years? Is it a trillion years? Is it a trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion years? No, these timelines are too short for computing eternity and eternity is not computable since it goes on forever.

Consider eternal damnation from the perspective of the unfortunate human who lived an exceptionally moral and good life but did not follow the correct divinely chosen religion or the poor man who chose the correct divinely chosen religion but may have made a few mistakes that the correct divinely chosen religion deemed irredeemable. According to the doctrine of eternal damnation, these poor individuals who may have lived an average lifetime of 80 years are condemned to live every day of eternity in the burning fires of hell. Each day and each second of the day are filled with physical and mental torment. Their bodies feel the excruciating pain of fire burning through their flesh. There are no rest periods in hell. No medications to alleviate their pain. These sad souls have no hope for relief or receiving a pardon from God. They had a lifetime of around 80 years to use their free will to choose the correct divinely chosen religion and not to make any mistakes the correct divinely chosen religion deemed irredeemable. According to the doctrine of eternal damnation, you only get one lifetime to do things right. These individuals blew their one time lifetime and will pay the eternal price.

Humans have an innate ability to know what is just and what is unjust. Is it just to sentence a man to death for driving 60 miles an hour in a 55 mile an hour speed zone? Is it just to sentence a man to life imprisonment because he said a curse word out in public? Is it just to hang a man because his belief, nationality or race is different from yours? The answer to these questions is obviously no. The punishment is out of proportion to the crime or situation. No one deserves eternal damnation, not even Shiro Ishii, Adolf Hitler, or Ted Bundy. Ishii, Hitler and Bundy deserved to be punished for each and every crime they committed. All three committed such atrocious and vicious crimes and their punishment might deserve to last a thousand or a million years but not eternity. If human self-awareness continues after death, God's laws will deal with these individuals as well as all humans and be assured that God's laws will mean perfect justice for all.

203. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #50311 by darwin2 on June 16, 2007 at 4:16 pm

Comment #50198 by steve99 on June 15, 2007 at 4:15 pm

"Then you really haven't understood anything I have said. If you thinka supreme designer is required where there is no need for a designer, you are seriously deluded. Your belief is a dishonest belief. You presumably came here because you had some doubt about your belief. You tried to use science to justify it. You can't find that justification from science, yet you still cling on to that belief. I feel sorry for you."

Why do you state my belief is "a dishonest belief?" That's a terrible slander of my character. My reputation in my community is one of honesty, fairness, understanding, compassion and straight forwardness.

I came to this website because I read Dr. Dawkins' book "The God Delusion." I agree with everything he says about organized religion but I disagree with his thesis that God is a delusion. I believe Dr. Dawkins, as well as many atheists and agnostics, confuse the monstrous evils of organized religion with God and conclude that these evils prove that God does not exist. And this confusing conclusion is in itself a delusion. I strongly believe science and religion can be compatible and complementary. I have come to this website to test this contention by engaging in mutually respectable dialogues with atheists and agnostics whose views challenge my contention.

Why do you feel sorry for me? I am very happy with my life. Life is beautiful and I delight in the daily activities of experiencing nature's magnificent beauty. Also I am comforted with the knowledge that there is a loving, merciful and perfectly just God and this thought not only makes me feel secure and exuberant in this lifetime but it also makes me feel exuberant and secure in anticipating the after life.

"You have no idea what I believe. And, what you are trying to argue is Pascal's Wager. Sorry, but that doesn't work. Believe in the wrong God, and you are doomed after death."

You are right I have no idea what you believe. I think it is safe to conclude you are either an atheist or an agnostic. To believe in God because of Pascal's Wager would be a silly, blasphemous and unscientific reason for believing in God. There are thousands of man made gods but there is only one true God who is the Supreme Designer and Creator of all that exists. I feel certain that all believers and non-believers are destined for eternal life in heaven. No exceptions! All that is required for our salvation is to learn, obey and master God's laws of physics. That is the reason I believe most scientists are highly developed spiritual beings. Scientists are heavily involved in studying God's laws of physics and that is exactly what is required for salvation.

"I prefer the honest and decent approach - doubt. If there is a life after death, at least I will have shown no favouritism towards a particular God. The odds are, I will be better off than you."

Why do you say that "the odds are I will be better off than you?" What scientific evidence do you have to support this statement? If you can scientifically prove to me that your statement is correct, I will immediately convert to your beliefs.

204. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #50302 by darwin2 on June 16, 2007 at 3:09 pm

Comment #50186 by Bonzai on June 15, 2007 at 3:14 pm

"There is no compelling logic in your argument."

For you there isn't but for me there is. I respect your views. But for me, I am compelled to conclude that behind this universe and all other universes that may exist is the One true God who is infinite, all-knowing, all-powerful, loving, merciful and perfectly just.

205. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #50191 by darwin2 on June 15, 2007 at 3:31 pm

Comment #50018 by steve99 on June 14, 2007 at 2:41 pm

"That isn't going to work, as all the evidence suggests that the more people learn about science, the less need that have to invoke God. We have an example of this here, where you assumed that order required a Creator. Also, if some multiverse ideas are correct, all possible laws of physics exist. If that is the case, there is definitely no need for a God who makes specific laws."

I find that the more I learn about science the more I praise God because science increases my appreciation of the magnificence, immensity and infinite power of God.

I believe the multiverse ideas are correct and that all possible laws of physics may exist. I see a definite need for God to exist because without God, the Supreme Designer and Creator, our universe and all other universes would not exist.

Subjectively, I believe God exists and consciousness continues after death. Subjectively, you believe the opposite. The $64,000 question that arises here is this. Who is correct here, you or me? Fortunately for me, I have a fantastic advantage over you in getting the answer to this question. If I am correct and I find myself conscious on the other side, I will know that my conclusions were correct. And if this happens, I intend to gloat and to look you up in heaven so that I can say with great pleasure and absolute self righteous pride that "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" However my gloating will be short lived because I will be extremely happy for myself, you and all eternal souls because we will be free from physical bondage and the universe will be ours to explore forever in total freedom.

On the other hand if you are correct and consciousness ceases at death, you will never know that you were correct and you will never have the opportunity to gloat and say to me, " I TOLD YOU SO."

206. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #50185 by darwin2 on June 15, 2007 at 3:08 pm

Comment #49998 by steve99 on June 14, 2007 at 1:38 pm

"No, this is just not true. Math does not require any intelligence to exist. PI is PI, and not even God could change its digits. Math is not something created."

"And chemistry and physics don't require any order. In fact, they are good at describing disorder."

"Sorry, but I just can't see how that fits with the science I have described. You can believe all you want, but you can't use the 'order' arguments you have listed above, because they are just plain wrong."

"No, it doesn't. It is only showing small amounts of order resulting from local gravitational collapse. It is certainly not a sign of great order"

If order did not exist, we couldn't solve any math problem. Without order try to divide 4 by 2. Is the answer 2, 3 or 1? Without order we would not know the correct answer. Behind order is Intelligence and the Ultimate Intelligence being God. Regarding chemistry and physics you need order to work with disorder in order to complete a scientific experiment. Regarding gravity, we don't know everything yet and later discoveries might show small order to be much more than presently known.

207. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #50015 by darwin2 on June 14, 2007 at 2:33 pm

Comment #49809 by Bonzai on June 13, 2007 at 3:15 pm

"Interesting. But leaving aside the scientific merits or lack thereof of these doctrines, they don't require a God and actually leave not much room for one: if there is a God he is bounded by karma, hence he can't be an all powerful supreme"

They don't require God but I do. God created the laws of physics and it is inconceivable to me that God would violate any law of physics. Karma is an integral part of the law of physics and it is inconceivable that God could create any Karma for himself and therefore Karma doesn't prevent Him from being an all powerful supreme.

"Some Buddhists believe deities,--superior but not supreme beings,-- exist but these 'gods' are themselves subjected to death and reincarnation according to the impersonal karmic law. In one story the Buddha mocked an especially stupid and nasty god who due to ignorance thought that he was the creator of the universe and demanded others to worship him. It sounded very much like the God of Abraham, Jesus and Mohammad."

In the end, the destiny for all intelligent beings is to become gods but not God. There is a hierarchy of intelligent beings starting out with newly created ones like us and ending up with the highest intelligent being that God created that possesses a degree of power one degree below God. Mathematically, God is infinite and the highest intelligent being below God would mathematically be shown as infinitely minus one and that one would be a huge one. The gods that most organized religions create are usually stupid and nasty gods. The God of Abraham is definitely a stupid and nasty god.

"I don't have a problem if you want to call some abstract principles,--whether the laws of physics or the dubious law of karma,--"God". But this doesn't seem to be what people are arguing about and it does sound like a rather strange way of using language."

I see several issues being discussed at this website. One of the major issues is how to address and correct the frightening reality that so may people in this country do not believe in evolution and they want this silly teaching creationism taught in our schools. Another major issue is whether or not science and religion are compatible. Another issue is how can we get science especially evolution taught in the schools. Another issue is how can we get critical thinking taught in the schools. I know this is an atheist website but what I think needs to be done here is for scientists to look for a back door so that all of these issues can be solved correctly and to accomplish this scientists have to demonstrate that true science can help children and adults acquire a greater appreciation of the magnificence, immensity and infinite power of God.

208. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49992 by darwin2 on June 14, 2007 at 12:49 pm

Comment #49802 by steve99 on June 13, 2007 at 1:51 pm

"But as we now know, because of work in maths, chemistry and physics in the past century or so, that order can arise by itself... how does this influence your conclusion?"

It doesn't change my conclusion in any way. Math, chemistry and physics require order. Behind order there must be intelligence. Our universe is extremely ordered. I have recently purchased a book titled "WHAT'S OUT THERE'' with a foreword by Stephen Hawking. In the foreword, he says "It is currently estimated that there may be 150 billion galaxies in the universe." On page 67, it shows a mosaic of 70 galaxies taken by the GEMS Survey and the galaxies shown in this mosaic are anywhere between 100 million and ten billion light years from Earth. Many of these galaxies have similar shapes. This picture demonstrates great order in our universe. And what is more amazing many cosmologists now think our universe may be one of an infinite number of universes. I still strongly conclude behind all of creation is One Supreme Intelligence, One Supreme Being, One Supreme Designer, and One Supreme Creator that we call God.

209. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49780 by darwin2 on June 13, 2007 at 12:19 pm

Comment #49632 by phil rimmer on June 12, 2007 at 4:25 pm

"From a hypothesis about the primal cause of the universe you get to this! I seem to have missed the bit in between where you learn this particular information. And how did YOU get it? Many christians would disagree with a lot of what you have said...."

Christians don't like what I have to say. I don't believe Jesus is our savior, I don't believe in an eternal hell, I don't believe in redemption or Original Sin, I don't believe the Bible is the unerring word of God, and I strongly believe that Darwin was correct and that evolution and natural selection are responsible for the creation of life forms on our planet.

As to your question about how I get it, I first asked myself if is possible for One Supreme Being that we generally refer to as God to be responsible for all of Creation. I explored the observable order in the universe and I concluded that God does exist. I then looked at the different religions of the world and analyzed what made sense and what didn't make sense. The only religious belief that made sense to me was Reincarnation and Karma that answered every question I had on the human condition. I also read extensively about science and the combination my belief in Reincarnation and Karma combined with what I learned about science resulted in my beliefs about God and life.

210. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49779 by darwin2 on June 13, 2007 at 12:19 pm

Comment #49632 by phil rimmer on June 12, 2007 at 4:25 pm

"From a hypothesis about the primal cause of the universe you get to this! I seem to have missed the bit in between where you learn this particular information. And how did YOU get it? Many christians would disagree with a lot of what you have said...."

Christians don't like what I have to say. I don't believe Jesus is our savior, I don't believe in an eternal hell, I don't believe in redemption or Original Sin, I don't believe the Bible is the unerring word of God, and I strongly believe that Darwin was correct and that evolution and natural selection are responsible for the creation of life forms on our planet.

As to your question about how I get it, I first asked myself if is possible for One Supreme Being that we generally refer to as God to be responsible for all of Creation. I explored the observable order in the universe and I concluded that God does exist. I then looked at the different religions of the world and analyzed what made sense and what didn't make sense. The only religious belief that made sense to me was Reincarnation and Karma that answered every question I had on the human condition. I also read extensively about science and the combination my belief in Reincarnation and Karma combined with what I learned about science resulted in my beliefs about God and life.

211. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49777 by darwin2 on June 13, 2007 at 12:15 pm

. Comment #49577 by Rtambree on June 12, 2007 at 12:40 pm

"Sentences beginning with "I believe..." are evidence of intellectual lameness."

If this is true I am in the company of many of the most respected scientists in the world. I have read many science articles and books where highly respected scientists have started off sentences with "I believe." I have seen and heard these scientists say things like, "I believe there is a strong possibility that intelligent life exists throughout our universe." "I believe the Drake equation supports the existence of intelligent life in our universe." "I believe that it is possible for marine life to exist under the icy surface of Jupiter's planet Europa." "I believe your scientific theory is incorrect for these reasons." I believe his scientific theory is incorrect for these reasons."

212. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49580 by darwin2 on June 12, 2007 at 12:42 pm

148. Comment #49371 by alovrin on June 11, 2007 at 4:38 pm

"And you are at a website where the prevailing view is that there is no god. So if you come here and just baldly say there is take my word for it and don't criticize me for saying it, expect a wee bit of flak.
I say this most respectfully. So carry on you were saying?"

Yes, I have received many criticisms of my beliefs and adverse criticism doesn't bother me. This is a great website for me. One thing I have in common with most people on this website is my disdain for organized religion. I really like this website because I can engage in mutually respectful dialogues on the issues of science and religion

213. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49573 by darwin2 on June 12, 2007 at 12:32 pm

146. Comment #49339 by phil rimmer on June 11, 2007 at 2:51 pm

"Why would god have a human-like sensibility? Why a purpose?? Why for us humans?? Why not a porpoise? Why couldn't we be a failed experiment, scraped into the nearest singularity? Why not a zillion questions, most of which would far less conceited and anthropocentric?"

"So tell me, why is HE so like your Dad? My Dad just wanted me to be happy. He trusted me to do the right thing. He led by example. No bullying, no threats"

REPLY
Yes, we could be a failed experiment but I don't believe so. I believe we were created to be gods ourselves and to participate with God in the creation process.

In a way God is like your Dad. He wants us to be happy and He doesn't bully or threaten. God only wants us to learn, obey and master the laws of physics so that we can fulfill our divine destiny which is to participate in the creation process with God.

214. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49572 by darwin2 on June 12, 2007 at 12:19 pm

145. Comment #49334 by gcdavis on June 11, 2007 at 2:10 pm

Darwin2
"You still believe in that make believe world that you have constructed for yourself. It is your comforter, but it isn't true! As an obviously intelligent and mature man can you not see that?"

All I can say is that I explored the issues of life as deeply as I am capable of and these are my conclusions. I sincerely believe they are true and I live my life accordingly. It is impossible at this moment to scientifically demonstrate that my views or your views are the correct ones. What happens after death will give us the ultimate answer. Hopefully we will meet on the other side and we can continue this discussion. In the meantime, I wish you, your family and friends "PEACE AND PROSPERITY."

215. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49330 by darwin2 on June 11, 2007 at 2:00 pm

. Comment #49154 by LeeLeeOne on June 10, 2007 at 5:00 pm

God always "was, is and always will be." (you left out the best part: ...without end. RAmen)

Darwin2, this is from the xtian apostle's creed! You read it in a "big book", probably had to memorize it and repeat it thousands of times.

Darwin2, it's just so sad... to never to able to actually think for yourself.

The self-made ignorant, self-made delusional, and the self-made gullible, "was, is, and always will be."

d'oh 1 too, you are a very silly self-made ignorant, delusional, and gullible human.

Why is it that when you mention the word evolution to some fundamentalist Christians they go berserk and almost have a nervous breakdown? Why is that when you mention the word God to some atheists they go berserk and almost have a nervous breakdown? Can't we just have a mutually respectable dialogue without resorting to name calling?

216. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49325 by darwin2 on June 11, 2007 at 1:41 pm

116. Comment #49141 by Bonzai on June 10, 2007 at 3:22 pm

"It is quite a leap of logic to infer the existence of a God who cares and intervenes about human affairs, demands worship and obedience from a philosophical "point of infinity"

"What difference does it make whether such a God exist? Why should anyone care?"

I don't believe God intervenes in human affairs and I believe any form of prayer asking God for favors is a waste of time. I believe the only worship that God demands is that we learn, obey and master His laws of physics. My religion is science and I believe science is the path to true salvation.

If God exists, a person should care because it is important to find out if God is totally indifferent to your existence or if he has a purpose for you.

217. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49319 by darwin2 on June 11, 2007 at 1:31 pm

113. Comment #49128 by Rtambree on June 10, 2007 at 1:06 pm

"1. Every time in the past that we assumed a God (or Gods) was operating, it turned out not be so. So one should use extreme caution when using this answer. See The Principle of Mediocrity"

Assumptions are frequently wrong. To attribute the good or bad in this world to God is an insult to God. People created the good and bad in this world and people should take responsibility for their actions.

"2. What's wrong with simply saying that "universe/multiverse always was - infinite in time and space, and therefore not needing a Prime Mover. This is a much simpler answer that just some conscious entity existing out there twiddling his thumbs and then say "I'm bored - I'll know - I'll create some humans to
entertain me."

It is much simpler to say a Prime Mover exists. I don't think God was bored when He created Intelligent Life. I believe He wanted creation to be an ongoing process and wanted intelligent life to participate in that creation.

"3. What's wrong with saying "we just don't know" to what happened "before" T=0 and leave it at that. As Feynman said, it's more interesting not knowing than clutching at an answer that might be wrong."

Objectively speaking and looking at this issue from a strict scientific perspective, we just don't know. We won't get a true answer until we die. If we die and consciousness ceases, we will not get an answer. However when we die and we find ourselves conscious on the other side, we will be able to pursue this issue with more scientific certainty.

"4. How do you get from "God as Prime Mover" to whatever subset of Abrahamic theology you adhere to. It requires lots of leaps of faith"

I don't follow any subset of Abrahamic theology. I believe the three major religions that spring from Abraham are evil, superstitious, divisive and extremely annoying. I do have one common belief and that is I do believe in One God who is loving, merciful and perfectly just.

"5. If you can't accept that there's no life after death, where were you before you were conceived?"

Excellent question. Let me start at the beginning. I believe humans have eternal souls and our eternal souls are relatively new creations of God. I believe God created our eternal souls in a perfect state of pure energy and as pure energy we could assume any physical form we chose and travel to any place in the universe we desired. We were literally born into paradise and heaven. I believe God has a divine purpose and destiny for creating our eternal souls and that divine purpose is for us to participate in the creation process with God by becoming gods ourselves, imitating God and using our god given powers to create our own universes and beyond. To accomplish this God gave us free will and wants us to use our free will to learn, obey and master the laws of physics. When our souls were created, we were instructed by highly evolved spiritual beings as to what we needed to do to achieve our divine destiny. However, shortly after God created our eternal souls we began to make mistakes by misusing our free will and violating God's laws of physics. Soon our mistakes accumulated to the point that they caused us to descend into the temporary hells of the physical world of which Earth is one of these temporary hells and where our eternal souls presently find themselves encumbered in these temporary human bodies. Our mission on Earth is to address and correct our mistakes and to take steps to learn, obey and master God's laws of physics so that we can ascend back to that perfect state of pure energy that God created us in and where we can fulfill our divine destiny. The law of physics that will enable us to accomplish this is the law of reincarnation and karma. The sooner we learn, obey and master the laws of physics, the quicker we will fulfill our divine destiny in life.

"6. Beware of using explanations that make you feel better. The universe is counter-intuitive enough as it is, and when humans guess, they almost always get it wrong. This problem is compounded when they impose their own wishes and insecurities onto the universe. As Woody Allen said, "the universe is indifferent, at best."

Does this make me feel better? Yes it does. I am 66 years old. I sleep well at night. I love my life. I love how science has made my life very enjoyable and meaningful. I have thoroughly examined every detail of my life and I understand my karma completely. My belief system has helped me understand the reasons why everything happens on our planet. I believe this is my last time around. I have no fear of death regardless of how it comes or whether it comes naturally quick and easy or if I am assaulted or fall victim to some ghastly disease. Although this planet is a temporary hell, I am comforted by the belief that every eternal soul that occupies a human body on this planet is destined to fulfill their divine mission for their creation. It just takes some souls longer than others to accomplish this.

218. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49292 by darwin2 on June 11, 2007 at 12:15 pm

112. Comment #49125 by steve99 on June 10, 2007 at 12:40 pm

"why"

I agree common sense is not a variable to be used in studying the laws of physics. But common sense does come into the equation when someone tries to convince me that a universe as complicated and orderly as ours came into being without an Intelligent Designer and common sense tells me that there has to be an Intelligent Designer behind the creation of our universe and the laws of physics that govern our universe.

219. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49288 by darwin2 on June 11, 2007 at 11:59 am

111. Comment #49122 by phil rimmer on June 10, 2007 at 12:31 pm
"If this were true, what significance does it have for us?"

The significance this has if it were true is this. It leads to the following questions. If God exists, does God have a purpose for human existence? If God has a purpose what is that purpose?

220. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49121 by darwin2 on June 10, 2007 at 12:28 pm

Comment #48995 by Mikado on June 10, 2007 at 12:33 am
Comment #48984 by BAEOZ on June 9, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Comment #48983 by Robert Maynard on June 9, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Comment #48818 by BigJohn on June 9, 2007 at 6:04 am

I am amazed and perplexed that you gentlemen attribute everything to Darwin's principle of evolution and natural selection. I agree with you with the one qualification that behind evolution and natural selection is the directive of One Supreme Designer and Creator. Presently an experiment at CERN will try to determine what the universe looked like one trillionth of a second after the Big Bang. To accomplish this there has to be extreme order in the universe. To even entertain the possibility that this extreme order can come about solely by natural selection defies logic and common sense.

An important issue that comes up here is this. If God exists what is behind God? The answer is there is nothing behind God. God is the ultimate reducible answer. God always was, is and always will be.

221. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49116 by darwin2 on June 10, 2007 at 12:01 pm

Comment #48944 by alovrin June 9, 2007

"Are you on the right side?"

I hope I am. Isn't this the Official Richard Dawkins website? Isn't this the website that puts emphasis on openly discussing science and religion? Do you have to be a bona fide atheist to join this website? Are you telling me that I should not annoy you atheists and participate in these discussions because I believe in God? I respect your right to be an atheist and in turn I expect you to respect my right to believe in God and present my views on the issues of science and religion that are discussed on this website.

222. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #48939 by darwin2 on June 9, 2007 at 4:43 pm

I agree that organized religions are divisive, dangerous, superstitious, illogical and extremely annoying at times. But I believe it is unrealistic and unscientific to use the atrocities and stupidities of organized religion as a proof against the existence of God. I disagree with Dawkins who proposed that the preponderance of scientific evidence demonstrates that the possibility for the existence of God is very low, almost zero. I am perplexed that scientists can actually come to this conclusion. I believe the opposite of what Dawkins says is true and that the preponderance of scientific evidence demonstrates that the odds are very high, almost 100% that God, the One Surpreme Being, Designer and Creator exists. Would a scientist conclude that the Space Shuttle, one of the most complicated aircrafts in existence, was made by natural selection. The obvious answer is that intelligence was behind its design and creation. The universe is infinitely more complicated that the Space Shuttle and must have had a Designer and Creator. So you atheists out there give me a break. Let's get scientific here and conclude that the probability that God exists is very high.

223. The 'Is God...Great?' Debate

Comment #48598 by darwin2 on June 8, 2007 at 1:50 pm

Comment #48442 by eno

"darwin2: you seem to accept evolution and other facts about the universe but then you come out with piffle like 'I believe we have an eternal soul'. What are you basing this on? A dream? A 'feeling'? "

"Whatever it is, it is certainly not scientific."

I agree my conclusions are not scientific. At this time science does not have the tools to peek into other dimensions but in the future and the future may be fairly close science will have the tools to look into other dimensions. The findings will be very interesting.

Am I basing my beliefs on dreams or feelings? I don't have dreams or visions. I have never seen God nor do I have any hope of ever seeing God. God is infinite and I am finite. A finite being can never experience, meet or comprehend that which is infinite. But I do feel God's presence and I do know He has a divine plan for all of us. I developed my conclusions about God, existence and my purpose in life by using critical thinking skills in asking my self the deep questions about life and finding the answers that satisfy me.

224. The 'Is God...Great?' Debate

Comment #48593 by darwin2 on June 8, 2007 at 1:32 pm

Comment #48329 by BAEOZ

"You sir, believe in a logical contradition. Which therefore can't exist."

It is not a contradiction to be all knowing and all powerful. We know how to make nuclear energy and we have the power to use it.

God is loving and merciful because God leaves no one behind. We are all destined for heaven. We can not escape our destiny. In a sense God does allow evil but evil comes from bad choices we have made. To fulfill our divine destiny we have to learn, obey and master God's laws of physics. God has given us free will and we have to learn how to use our free will to make the correct choices. Take electricity as an example. Electricity is not good or evil. If we use electricity correctly we get good results. If we use electricity incorrectly we get harmful results. If we plug an air conditioner correctly into a live electrical outlet we can cool our home during hot days. If we use electricity incorrectly by inserting a knife into a live electrical outlet with our bare hand, we get electrocuted. The problem with the human condition is that too many eternal souls have been sticking knives with their bare hands into the live electrical outlets of spiritual development.

225. The 'Is God...Great?' Debate

Comment #48581 by darwin2 on June 8, 2007 at 1:06 pm

Comment #48347 by Donald

"You aren't parotting any of the standard religions, so where does your version of god come from?"

I believe the preponderance of scientific evidence demonstrates
that the odds are extremely high as close to 100% as you can get that God the Intelligent Designer and Creator exists and is the cause behind all creation. My version comes from using the God given tool of critical thinking and common sense and asking myself questions about the essence of God and what characteristics God must have to be truly God. I can't prove that my version of God is correct any more than I can prove at this moment in time that marine life exists below the icy surface of Europa. However we will get an answer on Europa when space craft in the near future explore this moon of Jupiter and search underneath Europa's ice. We will get an answer as to whether my version of God and its ramifications is true or false when we die.

226. The 'Is God...Great?' Debate

Comment #48323 by darwin2 on June 7, 2007 at 12:50 pm

OK. I'll ask. Would you tell us which god you think (probably) exists?


Donald, let me answer your questions.

Would you tell us which god you think (probably) exists? I believe behind this universe and all other universes that exist is One God who is the Supreme Designer and Creator of all that exist. I believe God is infinite, all knowing, all powerful, loving, merciful and perfectly just.

Did he create the earth, or did it coalesce from star debris? God started our universe with the Big Bang and from the Big Bang the galaxies emerged and from our Milky Way Galaxy, the earth emerged.

Did he create humans, or did they evolve from simpler life forms? I believe humans evolved exactly the way Darwin said.

Does he have any instructions for us, and what are they? Yes God does have instructions for us and these instructions are for us to learn, obey and master the laws of physics. Let me explain how we humans got here and what our purpose in life is. I believe humans have eternal souls and our eternal souls are relatively new creations of God. I believe God created our eternal souls in a perfect state of pure energy and as pure energy we could assume any physical form we chose and travel to any place in the universe we desired. We were literally born into paradise and heaven. I believe God has a divine purpose and destiny for creating our eternal souls and that divine purpose is for us to participate in the creation process with God by becoming gods ourselves, imitating God and using our god given powers to create our own universes and beyond. To accomplish this God gave us free will and wants us to use our free will to learn, obey and master the laws of physics. When our souls were created, we were instructed by highly evolved spiritual beings as to what we needed to do to achieve our divine destiny. However, shortly after God created our eternal souls we began to make mistakes by misusing or free will and violating God's laws of physics. Soon our mistakes accumulated to the point that they caused us to descend into the temporary hells of the physical world of which Earth is one of these temporary hells and where our eternal souls presently find themselves encumbered in these temporary human bodies. Our mission on Earth is to address and correct our mistakes and to take steps to learn, obey and master God's laws of physics so that we can ascend back to that perfect state of pure energy that God created us in and where we can fulfill our divine destiny. The law of physics that will enable us to accomplish this is the law of reincarnation and karma. The sooner we learn, obey and master the laws of physics, the quicker we will fulfill our divine destiny in life.

Does he intervene in the world? No, God does not intervene. Everything that occurs on our planet strictly follows the laws of physics.

If so, does intercessary prayer work? Prayer is a waste of time and energy. We need to take responsibility for ourselves. The only thing that will work and change things for the better is for us to learn, obey and master the laws of physics.

Has he created an afterlife for us? Our eternal souls were born into heaven and that's where we will all return. No exceptions. Everyone eventually makes it back to heaven. It just takes some souls longer than others.

227. The 'Is God...Great?' Debate

Comment #48087 by darwin2 on June 6, 2007 at 2:20 pm

I totally agree with Hitchens' views on the evil, superstitious, divisive and very corrupt nature of organized religions. However I believe Hitchens is totally wrong about the existence of God and I think his obsession with the brutal evils of organized religions has crippled his mind into denying the possible and highly probable existence of God.

228. What I Think About Evolution

Comment #46772 by darwin2 on June 1, 2007 at 2:05 pm

Comment #46569 by BaronOchs on May 31, 2007 at 4:55 pm
darwin2 are you going to tell us why you believe in those things?


Let me answer your question objectively and subjectively. Objectively examining the issues regarding the existence of One Supreme Being responsible for all creation and the survival of consciousness after death, the most I or anyone can truly say is that we may or may not get an answer when we die. If death is the end of it and consciousness does not continue, we will never know the correct answers to these issues. However if consciousness continues after death, we will then learn that God exists and consciousness does indeed continue after death.

Subjectively, I have come to the conclusion that One Supreme Being exists and that consciousness continues after death by using critical thinking skills when investigating the deep questions about life. I belong to no organized religion and find most dogmas of organized religions to be evil and con games. Dr. Dawkins says he has concluded that the preponderance of scientific evidence demonstrates a high probability that One Supreme Being does not exist and consciousness does not continue after death. I disagree and conclude that the preponderance of scientific evidence demonstrates that One Supreme Being does exist and that consciousness exists after death. I believe the key to understanding our existence comes from learning, obeying and mastering God's laws of physics. I believe scientists, especially physicists, are among the most spiritually evolved beings on our planet.

229. What I Think About Evolution

Comment #46561 by darwin2 on May 31, 2007 at 4:37 pm

The bottom line is that Sam Brownback raised his hand to confirm that he did not believe in evolution. This scares me and I would not want him elected President of my country. However I do believe in Intelligent Design and I do believe in One Supreme Being who designed and created our universe and all other universes that may exist. However I believe that Darwin was correct about evolution and natural selection and I believe God used these tools to create all life forms on our planet and in our universe.