201. Fleabytes

Comment #149061 by clodhopper on March 25, 2008 at 4:21 am

6881. Comment #149056 by AllanW

Just what elements of this are controllable or, I would argue, should be controlled?

In an open system no elements are controllable. Chaos rules.

Religion offends me. I have been damaged and abused by it and I reserve the right to be offensive back. The circumstances matter though as I'm generally a peaceful, easy going sort of f******d!

202. Fleabytes

Comment #149049 by clodhopper on March 25, 2008 at 3:49 am

6873. Comment #149042 by AllanW

But I think that a change of tactic in some circumstances is not only overdue but necessary to achieve a change that has not happened in many parts of the world which remain mired in irrationality.

I'm not really clear about what this is saying. P'raps I need to read the other thread (which one?). What tactics are OK? In what circumstances?
What tactics are not OK? What does OK mean anyway and who gets to decide this?

....oh, I'm not having a good day :-(

203. John Templeton: God's sugar daddy

Comment #148946 by clodhopper on March 24, 2008 at 5:49 pm

"he's just a boy from Tennessee"....

....a very very naughty boy...another one.

204. Fleabytes

Comment #148939 by clodhopper on March 24, 2008 at 5:23 pm

6850. Comment #148885 by Steve Zara

If anyone is interested, the latest post in my formal debate with the theological writer Dominic Bnonn Tennant is posted here

Following it with interest.

I see you're sticking to the point (or trying to).

best

clod

205. Fleabytes

Comment #148936 by clodhopper on March 24, 2008 at 5:11 pm

Analysis - Revealing Religion BBC Radio 4
Rather dissapointingly, this program seemed more a collection of sound bites than a coherent, in-depth exploration of some of the questions promised by it's synopsis.

So, we got a sort of superficial review of speculations concerning the development of religious thought in humans and where all that might have come from, to the speculation that we somehow have a continuing 'need' for religious belief because it helps provide comfort and solace in a world of pain.

Anthony Brown (presenter)
"So, religious belief, religious practice, is in part a record of anguish. These are not just pretty stories. They are the sort of claims about the world to which we cling in personal despair, when we are quite beyond the reach of reason.
Religion is a means to understand all the extremes of human experience, delight as much as terror and anguish. Here again, the new school of anthropologists and psychologists would argue that reason misses the essential point. We can hope to understand our own irrationality, and even to predict it; but we can't escape it. We can only live through it. In this, faith has something in common with love."

In Scot Atran's (paraphrased) words, it's a sort of emotional bind for humans which is impossible to overcome by reason. We're stuck with it.

Not what AC Grayling thinks. He thinks that what we're witnessing now is the final sputtering of the (religious) candle before it blows out. All the bruhaha and willy waving between the new atheists and the religites is just the sound of us (humanity) growing up (and out of it)

"For me the appearance of (religious) resurgence is mainly an appearance of extra amplification and this is because with what's happened in the course of the last decade with the atrocities of 9/11 and 7/7 and Madrid, the debate has become very polarized. Globalisation of the West is impinging on traditional societies and traditional religious beliefs in a way which has become unsustainable for those more traditional constituencies. And when there is genuine friction, when two cultures like the culture of the West - reductive and secularist and money orientated - meets a point in the development of another culture, which feels that that goes too far, then you get this result and a lot of screeching and creaking and groaning and bashing, noises emanate from the conflict between the two. That's what we're hearing, that's what people think is religious revival, but it's the sound of change."

That sounds a bit simplistic to me but so does Andrew Brown when he closes the program by saying….

"So long as the pain and tragedies of life endure, which is to say forever, science now tells us that religious belief will also endure."

Did I miss something then?
That might or might not be true, but to tell us that science now tells us this seems a tad on the presumptious side to me.

C'mon R4.....you can do better than that.

206. Fleabytes

Comment #148598 by clodhopper on March 23, 2008 at 11:26 am

Comment #148547 by Star Spangled Eagle

I do feel it's a little quiet here today.

Well, you know, family stuff and all the early potatoes got planted (it's traditional)...chocolate to eat...repentance for eating the chocolate blah blah blah.

For UK RDnetters....Advert Warning
(if you missed it first time....I did)
BBC Radio 4 9.30pm Analysis

"Easter weekend is one of the great affirmations of faith in the Christian year. To believers, the death and resurrection of Christ is, according to traditional doctrine, the belief that defines their religious experience.

To non-believers, ideas like resurrection are the kind of proposition that makes religious faith impossible.

But for believers and non-believers alike there has been intense interest and much new research in recent years into what exactly religious faith means to people.

Shaping the world?

It shows why faith seems to come naturally to so many communities and cultures - a challenge to many assumptions about the onward march of secular life.

Religion is clearly a major influence in the shaping of the world. Yet how does belief actually relate to the way in which life is lived, how does it affect thought and action?


Baroness Williams says that religion is an "anchor"

Are the sacred texts and doctrines of world religions the best guides to how religion is really believed and understood, or is there a new way of understanding its role in relation to individuals and societies?

In Analysis Andrew Brown explores this research, and talks to leading figures pursuing new understandings of religion and its application to daily life."

But you could always pop down the local instead.

:-)

best

clod

207. Fleabytes

Comment #148104 by clodhopper on March 22, 2008 at 4:50 am

This morning.....Penny Street
Bunch of Gospellers sing Amazing Grace to the early morning shoppers accompanied by a very shakey accordian. Up steps old Lancastrian with a strident and very broad Lancashire accent.
"Mornin Folks, Christ died fer yer sins....that's why ye ad a bit of a day off yisterdee..."

Nope, wrong again. Worked 7-3 yesterday.

208. Fleabytes

Comment #147789 by clodhopper on March 21, 2008 at 8:46 am

Paula: It must be so....there is far less bianism than there was 4 days ago.

209. Fleabytes

Comment #147785 by clodhopper on March 21, 2008 at 8:43 am

Remember too Rev David Robertson, Dundee, who is responding in open letters to Richard Dawkins' book, 'The God Delusion'. Pray that he will be given clarity in
his presentation and that the Lord will open hearts and minds to His Truth.

That worked then....maybe try Crocodile Dundee...

210. Fleabytes

Comment #147750 by clodhopper on March 21, 2008 at 7:35 am

6524. Comment #147745 by Prankster

Amazing.......you go away for a fortnight and come back online to find this thread seems to have taken on a life of it's own-truly this is evolution at work-wonderful, just wonderful......

Hey Prankster....don't count yer chikins.....could be survival of the shittest at work!

211. Fleabytes

Comment #147743 by clodhopper on March 21, 2008 at 7:14 am

6520. Comment #147740 by mlearnedfriend

Do you know that if you put all the economists in the world in a line... they still wouldn't reach a conclusion

Wheras, if you put all the religious people in a line.....Bingo!

212. Fleabytes

Comment #147739 by clodhopper on March 21, 2008 at 7:07 am

Pat Robertson: 'This is the second time [Katrina AND Sept 11] in a row that God has invoked a disaster shortly before lesbian Ellen Degeneres hosted the Emmy Awards,' Robertson explained to his approximately one million viewers. 'America is waiting for her to apologize for the death and destruction that her sexual deviance has brought onto this great nation.'

Yeah.....Bitch!!!!

213. Fleabytes

Comment #147733 by clodhopper on March 21, 2008 at 7:00 am

6508. Comment #147723 by mlearnedfriend

What we really need is a phone-a-friend when we get into difficulty

But don't forget
1. 50/50
2. Ask the Audience
3. Pull a Fast One

2 works reasonably well here.

214. Fleabytes

Comment #147728 by clodhopper on March 21, 2008 at 6:54 am

6508. Comment #147723 by mlearnedfriend

There are enough experts on the Bible narratives.........

Too true. But I trust mlud will remember that an expert is just a drip under pressure!

215. Fleabytes

Comment #147688 by clodhopper on March 21, 2008 at 6:09 am

6480. Comment #147672 by clearthinker

First of all I do not crave the attention on this website. In fact I could really do without it and when I am finished my 'shredding ' of Paula's review I will leave it alone. I was quite happy away from it until a couple of you contacted me to accuse me of cowardice for not responding to an article I did not know existed and also of lying about the quotes in my book.

Ah, I see now. You came back coz someone called you a coward and you felt you had to defend yourself and your book. I can understand that.

I note that you say you will leave it alone when this review process has run its course. For how long do you think you will be able to stay away?

216. Fleabytes

Comment #147659 by clodhopper on March 21, 2008 at 4:51 am

Comment #147619 by Richard Morgan

(This is NOT (and never will be) a commercial activity - you have realised that, haven't you?)

Yes Richard, you did make that clear. Doesn't stop a healthy donation going to RDnet though eh eh eh :-))))

Paula: How CAN you bear it?? Last letter though then its peace and tranquillity all the way....

217. Fleabytes

Comment #147614 by clodhopper on March 21, 2008 at 1:31 am

6444 by Richard Morgan

Sock on the Stair Reel

Wonderful. Thank you.

Al kitteh not eated sok fown on sters - by ordr - Ceiling Cat

218. EXPELLED!

Comment #147600 by clodhopper on March 21, 2008 at 12:20 am

wait...he's not The PZMyers....he's just a Very Naughty Boy.

219. Fleabytes

Comment #147449 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 12:50 pm

Pathfinder:

How many times do we have to flush before you go away?

220. Fleabytes

Comment #147348 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 7:46 am

Dr Benway:

Applause is apparently more valuable to him than accuracy.

In a nutshell, yes.

It is quite quite pointless even trying to engage DR on any rational level in this debate. I venture that it is a game only DR can win because all he really wants is the attention and that is what we continue to give him.

So why don't we just stop? He doesn't deserve it and if he doesn't get the attention he craves I predict he will move on. If we keep feeding him, well....

There, a testable hypothesis. Anyone game?

221. Fleabytes

Comment #147310 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 6:22 am

Richard:
"You manipulative little sod, you!"

Sock it to me baby.....and thanks.

222. Fleabytes

Comment #147293 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 5:52 am

Richard: I think it may be time to elevate this from 'thread' to 'superstring' status.

Please can one commission an Irish jig to be called 'The Sock on the Stairs'? I also quite fancy 'The Fire Hose Reel'. When the muse hits....no pressure.....

best

clod

223. Fleabytes

Comment #147290 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 5:41 am

Steve: Arrrrrghhhh! You have The Grimm!

224. Fleabytes

Comment #147287 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 5:38 am

Steve: Go Away. This Is For Your Own Good.

;-))))

225. Fleabytes

Comment #147284 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 5:35 am

Steve: 6371

I want a detailed explanation of how God makes consciousness.

He didn't.

Now, can we please get back to explaining the sock on the stairs?

226. Fleabytes

Comment #147250 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 4:37 am

Irate:

Some of us understand the odds, and put our weekly pound in the bank instead - where we have a better chance of a return on our capital.

No No No. Buy socks or shares!

227. Fleabytes

Comment #147235 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 4:02 am

Steve: BP rising? Give it up for lent...betcha can't.

228. Fleabytes

Comment #147225 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 3:44 am

clearthinker: Why doesn't the bible mention socks?

Why won't you tell me what evidence means to you?

229. Fleabytes

Comment #147205 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 3:16 am

Pathfinder:

How many times do we have to flush before you go away?

The topic today is 'socks'.

Please get with the program or fuck off.

230. Jesus saves

Comment #147194 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 2:56 am

Irate:

The proceeds from selling your socks.

Oh....my Templeton Foundation motif socks you mean?

231. Fleabytes

Comment #147193 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 2:50 am

1 Timothy 2:9 I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes or socks

So darling.....about that monsoon dress...

232. Fleabytes

Comment #147189 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 2:45 am

Epeeist:

And why is it that the only socks that survive in pairs are the Paisley ones given to you by great Aunt Mildred for Christmas 11 years ago?

This is clearly the work of the devil!

233. Jesus saves

Comment #147179 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 2:05 am

...and the funding comes from, where exactly?

234. Fleabytes

Comment #147172 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 1:39 am

Genesis 44:13
"At this, they tore their clothes. Then they all loaded their donkeys and returned to the city."

Your interpretation is incorrect. The bible does not mention socks even once. There is a terrific amount about 'tearing of clothes' and 'coming before pharoe' and nothing atallatall about socks on stairs (or anywhere else) so there. phooey.

235. Fleabytes

Comment #147160 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 1:13 am

Jesus Irate. You're a man of God (the cloth) (socks) no? Have you no compassion, no empathy, no feeling?

It's not my sock either thordammit!

Does your holy book say NOTHING about socks on stairs? What use is it then?

236. The Secular Conscience

Comment #147155 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 1:00 am

Secular democracy protects the right of people to believe in whatever nonsense they wish within the framework of civil & criminal law. While I agree most Christians see the importance of this state of affairs I would have to make exception when it comes to the Catholic church.

In my view, the tactics they use to influence public policy to conform to their agenda take them well beyond mere lobbying. The pressure, nay threats, they employ directed at Catholic politicians and voters is beyond the pale and should be curtailed by law.

237. Fleabytes

Comment #147150 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 12:28 am

Two questions arise vis a vis the crucial socks with sandals debate:

Would Jesus have been taken srsly if he had worn socks with his sandals?

What is it with that sock on the stairs? Just the one, all on its own. It lies there for days taunting you. Where the fuck is the other one? How did it get there? Why will nobody move it? Grrr!

238. Fleabytes

Comment #147148 by clodhopper on March 20, 2008 at 12:22 am

Gordon: Hai

See http://musingsofastrangemind.blogspot.com/2008/03/evening-with-david-robertson.html

best

clod

239. Fleabytes

Comment #146502 by clodhopper on March 19, 2008 at 6:33 am

Well, IT was always overated. Nerdy stuff.

Now EVERYTHING else on the other hand......:-)))

240. Fleabytes

Comment #146470 by clodhopper on March 19, 2008 at 5:50 am

....."so that the real Richard doesn't think you'e being rude to him."

Good grief. So now we have the 'No Real Richard' fallacy as well!

241. Fleabytes

Comment #146466 by clodhopper on March 19, 2008 at 5:47 am

"If someone asks me where the evidence is, then I would immediately ask them to explain what they mean by evidence".


Yeah well, been there, done that. I asked DR what he meant by evidence at 4579 (this thread). Still no response.

242. Fleabytes

Comment #146433 by clodhopper on March 19, 2008 at 4:46 am

Thanks for the report Quetz. Really...and this guy wants to debate Dawkins!

243. Fleabytes

Comment #146371 by clodhopper on March 19, 2008 at 2:23 am

"Clodhopper, your Tea sir, its ready and waiting next to your copy of The God Delusion!" :)

Thank you, my man.

Quetz, you apostate, you.

244. Fleabytes

Comment #146359 by clodhopper on March 19, 2008 at 2:01 am

Arsenic Ere Pull:
"It is a blessing that I am so humble. A less humble man would feel great pride in his actions were they as great as mine surely are"

Do we know who this is yet?

245. Fleabytes

Comment #146355 by clodhopper on March 19, 2008 at 1:49 am

Oh,I should point out that my repentence is subject to ongoing contestations of negotiated reality in a form of liminally subjective anticipation.

.....i.e. I've moved on to coffee now.

246. Fleabytes

Comment #146342 by clodhopper on March 19, 2008 at 1:21 am

Morning All. Praise The Lard (Still not the Quetz I'm afraid).

Mines a tea. Milk, no sugar.

I repent OK?

...a thunderous noise rent the heavens....oh, just the fireman putting out that damn burning bush again.

247. Fleabytes

Comment #145759 by clodhopper on March 18, 2008 at 5:40 am

Morning All. Praise The Lard.....and maybe Quetz (not convinced yet though)

Now....what've I missed. Oh good grief! srsly

Claire de Loon: But if we roast for eternity, won't we be a tad overdone?

248. Fleabytes

Comment #144450 by clodhopper on March 16, 2008 at 5:10 am

Does anybody know of any good songs with an atheistic point of view?

Did Tom Lehrer do anything? Can't bring one to mind offhand.

249. Fleabytes

Comment #144419 by clodhopper on March 16, 2008 at 3:37 am

Morning All - Praise The Lard.

5469:

[snip] everything.

Listen whatthe...?. put the fundy response manual down and listen. Don't give me the standard responses because I'm talking to YOU.

The groove your mind is stuck in is limited and self-limiting. The good news is that just because your mind is in that groove, it doesn't have to stay there. Don't you want more out of life than a prison composed of the bars of what other people have laid on you?

You can be so much more than that....and outside the walls of your prison is a world of possibility and discovery and when you start walking down that path You CAN Get YOUR Life Back.

I hope you take the first few steps.

best

clod

250. Ban anti-Catholic books in schools, says bishop

Comment #144098 by clodhopper on March 15, 2008 at 4:58 am

Hi David (Backpacker) & welcome to the melee. It's not so bad when you've dipped your toes in is it? We are a friendly and forgiving bunch for the most part.

I am glad someone else has looked at this. I find it quite unbelievable that they can get away with sending this shit out to schools. Makes me wonder what the heads and teachers think when they read this stuff (even if they are in a 'catholic' school), let alone what the LEA think about it.

I really should get off my arse and start writing to the local rags and the LEA and make some sort of noise about it when I calm down a bit.