201. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #197507 by TeraBrat on June 22, 2008 at 9:12 am

Is anyone surprised at the Muslims reaction? They will distort anything to make it sound like they are being victimized.

Happy B-day Ian.

ע�" מא�" ועשרים

202. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #197498 by TeraBrat on June 22, 2008 at 9:02 am

decius,

On this forum atheists are not a minority, and quite a few are totally obnoxious towards religious people.
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bugaboo,

I apologize, I was not referring to you I was responding to you. I'm sorry if you got that impression. I've been appalled at some of the nasty responses I've seen on this forum (not just this particular post). We need to be able to respond with logical well thought out, scientifically based answers. Not "fucktard" or " moron" or some other equally unsuitable and unscientific response. I realize that not everyone here is a scientist. Sometimes it's preferable to say nothing. (again, nothing personal).

203. Where do US lawmakers stand on science?

Comment #197490 by TeraBrat on June 22, 2008 at 8:53 am

The question is whether he is simply endorsing it or has an idea of how to do it. It would be virtually impossible without serious alternative energy technology and that would require a lot of research. Endorsing it in theory is not the same as endorsing it in practice.

Politicians, BAH!!!

204. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #197486 by TeraBrat on June 22, 2008 at 8:42 am

He may be a windup but he makes a good point.

I had many atheist friends in person; They never swore, smeared, twisted or distorted. We discussed anything in a peaceful tone. I thought all atheists are the same. But I was dead wrong. The followers of Dawkins, including himself, are not normal when they pissed off. The worse, they never realize that how intimidating they are when they start smearing, swearing, twisting and distorting; that's why many people were just turned off

I don't believe in god and I'm put off by how militan, inolerant and abusive some people are here. And I agree that it will put people who are on the fence off.

I've been reading the comments on this forum for the past four days and for the first time in twenty years I'm reconsidering religion. So if your intent is to discourage people from renouncing god, or push them to return to god, by all means, continue to be so abusive.

Otherwise learn how to hold a discussion without calling the other person names.

205. Christianity 'could die out within a century'

Comment #197468 by TeraBrat on June 22, 2008 at 7:13 am

I don't see how religion can survive understanding in the long run.

How many people are capable of logical reasoning and understanding?

206. Who Owns the Argument from Improbability?

Comment #197361 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 9:26 pm

Dawkins needs to explain how the universal constants came to be in the first place. Why do they exist, and more importantly, why do they exist in the specific quantities and ratios they do? Evolutionists like Dawkins need to explain the apparent fine tuning of the universe before they even think about trying to explain biological evolution by natural selection.

Why?

as more scientific information comes to light, the more people like Richard panic.

Why?

207. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #197354 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 8:36 pm

txpiper,

Well first, I don't think the depths nor the areas of coverage support the idea of alluvial plains being river delta fans. Second, in the case of Megiddo, what river would have flooded to deposit that much material into the region?

There are huge deposites of limestone and gypsum in Israel. This means that the entire country was under the sea for a very long period of time. Limestone and Gypsum only accumulatein deep oceans.

There are tropical rocks in parts of the Machteshim.

Weather conditions and hydrologic conditions have changed many times over the past 4.5 billion years.

208. Christianity 'could die out within a century'

Comment #197343 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 7:37 pm

We could all be dead in 100 years (the human race).

209. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #197323 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 6:21 pm

You really are pathetic. I feel very sorry for you.

210. Altruism in social insects is a family affair

Comment #197309 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 5:12 pm

I took an ecology course a few years ago and this "revelation" was discussed in that course. I'm not putting down the fact just wondering why they consider this cutting edge science.

211. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #197294 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 3:39 pm

I can see how on a first reading you might think that the language used was unwarrented. I am not trying to get at you :-)

However, when I sit and deeply consider this situation I find myself thinking it mild.

Thank you. I often winder if other people are capable of understanding how deeply the Holocaust affected us.

212. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #197288 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 3:29 pm

I didnt bother to scroll up and check who wrote that.

I have a problem with the generalizing. I've known vegans who were incredibly compassionate and caring people. Fanaticism is never a good thing, I'm not a fanatic about being a vegan. I just do the best I can. I never eat eggs straight out but I don't check the ingredients of everything to make sure there are no eggs. I eat cheese sometimes even though my concience bothers me about it. But I haven't had a piece of meat or fish or chicken since I became a vegetarian.

DDT is a problematic issue. I understand both sides of the argument and DDT IS toxic to humans. It's not as benign as people thought in the 70's it just takes a long time for it to accumulate and have an effect. There is also the problem of atmospheric deposition which means that the DDT you spray in Africa will end up all over the world. And it is so incredibly persistent in the environment and the one thing it does break down to is DDD and DDE and that's much more toxic than DDT.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts35.html

Medical research on animals is another thorny issue. A lot of medical researchers claim that there is no need for animal testing, some go as far as saying it's detrimental. There have been many drugs that were delayed because of animal testing or released and then found out to be very harmful in ways that could not be tested on animals. We have the technology to synthesize flesh and body parts. Why not use human synthesized flesh and body parts instead of those poor animals? It would be better for us and better for them.

213. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #197283 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 2:58 pm

Sargeist,

It's not that it would be controversial it's just not applicable.

A fetus is a zygot and not capable of surviving at all without the mother.

That chick is a living creature capable of living without being attached to another living being.

It's like comparing apples to oranges.

Our cruel farm parctices are enabled by technology. So I doubt that your hypothetical reality could ever be tested. In a case of me or any other himan beings life or that of an animal, the human comes first. But we aren't in that situation are we?

And that comment abut the Nazi's to rationalize being a meat eater (I know it wasn't you), was way out of line.

214. As the world becomes smaller, the need to understand each other's faith grows

Comment #197275 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 2:24 pm

I'm getting exasperated. This is the third time I was "logged out" while writing a comment and lost the whole thing. So I'm going to do this in pieces using the ebit dutton er edit button (I'm notorious on another forum for my typos and there's no edit on comments there).

Steve,

This is the answer I got from my friend

There is a religious Buddhism, which is called by some people Theravada, and also Hinayana (which is a derogatory term meaning "lesser vehicle"). The history I'm familiar with is that Gotama (also called Siddhartha) taught a rudimentary religious system to begin with, as a sort of stepping stone, and he later tore that religious system down. But it still lingered. If you go to Thailand you'll see something that looks like the Catholic church. People don't know what they are doing, but they follow the rituals and it gives them something to do. Such a religious system will teach people in supernatural moral absolutes.

But the only fundamental absolute is mind. You experience it right now as you read this. You see black dots intermingled with white, and something translates that fundamental experience into "words on the screen" which you read and respond to. The "something" is mind. Or call it consciousness. Whatever you want to call it, you can't avoid it. It is the only "knowable".

This isn't a teaching at all. Any teachings are just there to get you looking at what you know. So Buddhism, which tries to point you to this mind (so easily forgotten amidst distracting thoughts), is not a teaching. Buddhism really has no statements. Any statements are just going to lead to more thoughts which lead away from what you know at the most fundamental level.

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Fanusi,

Based on what you said I'm going to make a hypothesis. The Arabs were a blood thirsty murderous lot before they became Muslim (this is a fact). I'm guessing that Muhamed tried to make them more peaceful and they came up with the Hadith to justify remaining a bloodthirsy murderous lot.

Now I'm going to have to read those books (The god delusion and all the other books I just ordered from amazon are going to have to wait) to see if my hypothesis is correct.
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Sharon,

Not at all. The better translation from Hebrew would be desire. Desire is both physical and mental but it's not a sin until you act on it. What I'm going to say next may sound like double talk to you, but, this is what I was taught. There were two "Torah" given at Mt. Sinai a written one and an "oral" one. The oral one is an extension of the written one and explains unclear points of the written one (yes I know, but, wait I'm not finished). Commentary has been written on BOTH of them to help interpret them because Hebrew has a very simple structure which makes it incredibly tricky to interpret sometimes (there are no vowels, all words have a three letter root and the same word can often mean several different things that are totally unrelated depending on how it's pronounced). You cannot be punished for thoughts only actions. It is not a sin to have doubts about gods existence. There are no sins attached to emotions for the same reason. You cannot control thoughts and feelings only actions.

The more I learn about Christianity and Islam the happier I am with how I was brought up. It was hard sometimes but I learned a lot and have a lot of respect for Judaism. They were smart people. I'm convinced that the "oral" torah came much later in an attempt to "temper" the language of the earlier written one. Times changed, morality changed and there was a need for a change of view. Judaism is constantly evolving and adopting new ideas. Not always for the good. But there is so much commentary and there's the whole branch of mysticism that I've recently become interested in. It's totally different from in so many ways from everything I learned in school (we had seperate religious classes and science classes. The two were never mixed).

I have not believed in god for about twenty years but I'm still in awe of the great minds that shaped Judaism.

215. Louisiana's Latest Assault on Darwin

Comment #197250 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 12:56 pm

I think I've become psychic. I see a courthouse in the Governors future...

216. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #197215 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 11:28 am

You apparently read nothing I said.

217. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #197214 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 11:25 am

Sargeist,

What Vegans opose is the slavery of animals by humans. I have much less of a problem with someone with someone hunting their meat as I do going to the supermarket to buy a chicken that lived 6 weeks cooped up with a few thousand other chickens and possibly never saw daylight. Or pate from geese who were force fed with tubes that damaged their asophegus and caused them interminable pain. Or a piece of beef from a cow that was also kept locked up it's whole life and not allowed to "live" as a cow. A piece of veal from a calf that was separated from it's mother at birth and slaughter soon after.

Dairy cows have their calves taken from them at birth. The calf bulls are slaughtered after a week. They are artificially inseminated and forced to provide us with the milk they produce for their dead calf.

Egg chickens are kept in cages with barely room to turn around in and there are 2-3 in a cage. Free range chickens are better off but since half their chicks are male guess what happens to them?
Yup, they are killed as soon as they hatch. They are not even raised for meat. There are different strains of chickens called broilers that are raised for meat.

Go visit a slaughterhouse.

218. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #197197 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 10:21 am

I feel bad for German people. No one lets the Nazi thing go. No one brings up the fact that the pilgrams that formed the US and Canada massicured 80% of the 100 million or more natives in the americas.

Not as if I am saying to forget about it, but it seems no one can shut up about it, while at the same time being completely ignored of the actual events and causes of the events. I think Japan is barely even mentioned in this because they got nuked, and people don't like to mention that. Though Germany too a massive beating to it's population and cities as well.

Anyone, I just think it must be increasingly frustrating if you're German. It seems no one can mention German without Nazism being in the sentence along with it. Which simply isn't fair.

I haven't read all 2000 comments so maybe this was already raised and in that case I apologize.

My grandfather left Poland in 1935. The rest of his family was killed in the Holocaust. The entire villiage they lived in was wiped out.

1. I don't hate all Germans. There were Germans who helped the Jews at the risk of their own lives. There were those who passively defied out of fear and I can't blame them. This does not take away from the HORROR of what the Nazi's did and that will NEVER be forgiven.

2. I definitely do refer to the massacre of the native Americans quite often. Americans often need to be shaken out of their complaceny and smuggness.

3. Japan is not referenced when the Holocaust is mentioned because, while they faught on the side of the Germans they never had anything to with that genocide.

Your sympathy for the Germans is misplaced. I don't hate them any more than I hate the British for allowing so many Jews to be killed under their watch or all of the countries that denied Jews entrance. Shiploads of Jews were returned to Germany because they were not allowed into any other country. The allies knew about the death camps and refused to act on that knowlege. A few bombs to destroy the gas chambers and crematoreums would have save so many lives.

But I don't hate the whole world any more than I hate all Germans.

219. As the world becomes smaller, the need to understand each other's faith grows

Comment #197183 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 9:53 am

I'm going to refer this to a budhist friend and get back to you.

220. As the world becomes smaller, the need to understand each other's faith grows

Comment #197177 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 9:38 am

So you are perfectly happy with the idea of a thought crime?

What thought crimes? I don't know much about Christianity and Islam but I know the ten commandments very well and there is nothing there that could be considered a thought crime. Please enlighten me.

I have studied the major religions, yes. If you wish to discuss a particular religion, then let's do it. Religion by definition involves making statements about what is supernatural. Those are evidence-free claims about the fundamental nature of reality. This leads to absurdity, as in the current split in the Anglican church where the Holy Spirit is apparently whispering different things in different people's ears. Each side claims to have the backing of God.

You can't be serious? Budhism, Native American beliefs?
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Fanusi,

1. Let's have the actual words from the Koran and not your interpretations.

2. I'll admit that I never read the Koran, I think I should now, but I know people who have read it objectively and claim it depends on how you interpret the words. Which is why we have the problem we have with fundamentalist Muslims. I'm not defending them. I'm defending the Muslims that DO believe in a peaceful co-existence and base themselves on the Koran. The problem I have is with you trying to automatically say "you're Muslim, you're a monster". In another post someone was trying to say I was saying that and it's so far from the truth.

Before the rise of the Ayatolla's Iran was a very pleasant and modern place to visit. I wasn't there myself but my father did a lot of business with them and my parents always enjoyed the trips to Iran. Religious Jewsih Israelis in a Muslim country. Nowadays if they tried to go they'd probably be killed within five minutes. Do you see the difference between tolerant religion and fundamentalism?

I think that fundamentalist religious people are a serious problem. Not all religious people are fundamentalists. You don't seem to be able to differentiate between the two. That is my problem with your way of thinking.

I don't believe in god. That does not give me the right to dictate to other people what they are allowed to believe. There are a lot of legitimate gripes against religion. Calling ALL religious people idiots makes you as bad as the fundametal religious people.

I've learned a lot about what goes on in schools here in the US and I findit appalling. That does not automatically make every religious person a monster.

The way women and children are treated in the fundamentalist Muslim countries is appalling. That does not make every religious person a monster.

221. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #197161 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 8:59 am

esuther,

1. Whatever unfortunate methods were used to seize a significant part of Palestine for Jewish occupation, it was in principle justified..

As I recall there was a UN vote in which ALL UN countries participated in 1948 that gave us that land, so yes. BTW there were penty of Arab countries who participated in that vote while we didn't. If you are going to even question the rise of the state of Israel then you are at odds with every country that voted for it.

2. The 700,000 (more or less) Palestinians who fled in 1948 were not forced by Jewish forces or Jewish threats but just ran away all by themselves, for no good reason.

They knew what they would do if they were in our place. They fled for fear of their lives based on what they knew about their own culture. Look at the Arab world and how much hatred and killing goes on there. There was a strong basis for their concerns.

3. Israel is justified in refusing to re-admit these refugees to the homes and lands they fled from. (Finders keepers?).

They fled. I fail to see why we should allow them back. Has the US given back all the lands they took from the natives? The Australians? South Americans? Are any of the borders in Euroupe the same as they originally were? Has England given the Irish back North Ireland? What about Scotland and Wales? Why is Israel supposed to be held to a different rule than any other country? Because we are Jews?

4. Palestinians are mostly savage and want to kill all infidels, even Jews, who are not infidels, for religious reasons, unrelated to Nr 1,2,and 3 above. (You pretty much said this already, so I take this one as a 'yes'.).

They are ruled by fundamentalist Muslims. If they form a state it will be no different than Syria or Iran. Do you deny that fundamentalist Muslims want to kill all infidels. And if you think they do not consider Jews infedils I suggest you listen to that tape by Ayyan Hirsi Ali and here how Jews are described by Muslims.

5. Palestinian Israelis are potentially savage too (because they are Muslim) but they behave themselves because they are grateful to be able to live in a democracy. (this also appears to be a 'yes').

The fundamentalist Muslims are.

6. The ongoing seizure of Palestinian land for Jewish-only settlements is justified because Palestinians whose land is being seized don't deserve it and the Jews do..

The land is bought. The Palestinians develope amnesia about the sales because they would be murdered by their own people if they admitted it.

7. Bulldozing houses and tearing out olive groves is always because the Palestinians living there want to kill Jews and would do so if allowed to stay.

Houses, yes. I've never heard of olive groves being bulldozed by the military. Perhaps you are referring to the land bought from the arabs for develoment from point 6?

8. All peace efforts have failed because the Palestinians are savage and unreasonable (for no good reason)..

They are ruled by fundamentalist Muslims. If you don't think fundamentalist Muslims are savage and unreasonable then we are at serious odds. I fail to see how you can be in their favor unless you are a fundamentalist Muslim yourself. I suspect you are. I never said that ALL Palestinians are savage and unreasonable. You are tryingtoput words in my mouth that I never said, another sign that you probably are a fundamentalist Muslim. In fact I said that most of them do want peace. It's the fundamentalist Muslims who continue to bomb and terrorize everytime peace seems to be attainable that Ihave a problem with.

9. Israel, in spite of its massive military, its gargantuan subsidies from the US, and it's network of military installations all over Palestine, is the victim. Israelis are being persecuted by Palestinians. (I believe you said this in your original post, that sparked this diversionary thread. So this also appears to be a 'yes') .

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism- Obstacle to Peace/Palestinian terror since 2000/Suicide and Other Bombing Attacks in Israel Since

And thatis just the suicide bombings. There were also numerous shootings, stabbings and kidnappings in which the kidnapped were tortured to death.

10. Although Hamas was democratically elected, it does not count because Hamas is terrorist. Palestinian government must therefore be approved by Israel in order to be acceptable.

How can a terrorist group be legal? And this is not something of the past. They continue to be terrorists.

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dot,

The fact you claim there's more than one human race.

Every time I fill out a form I'm asked what my race is. So according to your logic the entire USA is racist. Thank you.

As for the rest of your comments, since they are nothing more but cursing and slander and I won't stoop to your low level I'll just ignore them and let them speak for themsleves.

222. As the world becomes smaller, the need to understand each other's faith grows

Comment #197131 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 7:47 am

Steve,

No, it doesn't. Morality comes from people.

Since religion comes from people we are basically saying the same thing.

We aren't arrogant and narcissistic enough to claim that our views are part of the fundamental fabric of reality, and must not be questioned.

Yes you do. Maybe not you personally, but, that's exactly what a lot of these comments sound like.

Religion takes that good and bad and gives it ultimate authority.

.

Have you studied all the religions enough to make that broad statement?

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ad,

You're damn right I speak of religion with hatred and intolerance, because in all its history it has not worked to show us it is deserving of anything more.

Then you will never get rid of religion.

223. As the world becomes smaller, the need to understand each other's faith grows

Comment #197127 by TeraBrat on June 21, 2008 at 7:15 am

I'm hearing a lot of bigotry, hatred and intolerance in these remarks.

A lot of our morality "does" come from religion.

The religious books were written by people and encompassed the morals of the times they were written in. There is nothing "immoral" about the ten commandments or the teachings of Jesus or Muhammed. Immorality comes from how some people interpret these books, fanaticism and fundamentalism.

There are other institutions that are just as corrupt. Big business exploits people and leads to poverty. Communism in the USSR did the same thing. The ills of the world come from humanity. Belief in god does not change the fundamental fabric of the person. There are good moral people in every race and faith and bad immoral people in every race and faith and I include Atheism in that.

I've heard a lot of people say that religion prevents the asking of questions. That was not my experience growing up. We were encouraged to ask questions.

Hatred and intolerance breeds hatred and intolerance. I have no problem with someone wanting to believe in god as long as they don't try and force me to believe in god.

You can find good and bad in everything human.

224. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196987 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 8:46 pm

Robotaholic,

Domestic abuse is often unconnected to religion. I had a bf who turned out to be an abuser and he was an atheist. His father was even worse than him (serving a 15 year prison term for attmepted murder on his mother) and he was an atheist so was his grandfather. It's true that they didn't abuse in the name of atheism. Does that really matter? It was still abuse that violated my rights.

225. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196981 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 8:16 pm

Santa Fe is a lot better than New Jersey was. I've been a vegetarian for six years and I'm still, hang on *doing a body check*, I'm still intact.

226. From Big Bang to Us - Made Easy

Comment #196980 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 8:12 pm

That comment about water...I can't believe there are people who are that stupid.

227. From Big Bang to Us - Made Easy

Comment #196967 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 6:27 pm

"The Big Bang" by Simon Singh gives a much more detailed explanation. There are lots of similar books but I read that one and it was very well written.

This video is a nice tool to give people an inroduction to cosmology.

228. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196961 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 5:35 pm

HAHA!

I make vegetarian cheesesteak sandwiches, lasanga, spaghetti bolognese. It tastes better than meat because it does't have that horrible after taste. AND I can do it without killing innocent animals.

If you want to talk about slavery let's talk about farming practices.

229. Science teacher dissed evolution

Comment #196948 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 4:48 pm

I can't quote the bible to Christians. I'm Jewish and I've never read the New Testament. I don't plan on polluting my brain with that nonsense.

No I don't get paid to talk about Richard Dawkins. I'm in a bit of a lull right now at work for various reasons. I suspect that in about two weeks I won't have time to log on here during the day.

230. Pastors Challenge Law, Endorse Candidates From Pulpit

Comment #196946 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 4:37 pm

What the hell are they worried about? When is the last time anyone's seen any thunderbolts coming from that quarter?

That made me laugh because the first year I decided I don't believe in god I went out of my way to do things like turn on lights on Shabbat, eat non-kosher foods, eat bread on Passover etc. I felt twinges of guilt but I knew that it was a conditioned response that would pass. I never learned to like pork and hated shellfish anyways. Now I'm a vegetarian and it doesn't matter.

Yom Kipur came. The "holy of holies" day. The "day of repentance". For the first time in my life I wasn't in a synagogue all day praying to god to forgive my sins. That one was pretty easy. Eating on Yom Kipur was harder. I gagged over every mouthful that year and half expected to be struck down dead. I obviously wasn't.

I can honestly say that I don't even think about it anymore when I eat on Yom Kipur.

231. Science teacher dissed evolution

Comment #196942 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 4:27 pm

We had a parent recently who contacted our principal demanding that our school not support the April 25 national day of silence in support of the young gay student who was beaten up (to death) by his peers a few years ago just for being gay. Needless to say, we did not have the day of silence. Not in this rural Southern Baptist state!

I'm never moving to a southern state. New Mexico is bad enough (great weather though). Santa Fe is OK but in Albuquerque there are churches on just about every corner and everyone takes religion very seriously. I showed a co-worker this site yesterday and the minute I explained who Richard Dawkins was and what his philosophy is he backed away as if I had the pox.

The good thing about New Mexico is Governor Richardson. I wish he had been able to stay in the race. He's a great Governor and would have made a great President. Unfortunately the only votes he got were from New Mexicans. Hopefully he'll try again in 2012.

232. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196941 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 4:18 pm

Tera

I dated "smoking hot" women in Germany who fit Al's description. Everything was OK, but the lack of deoderant got to me, I'm very sensitive to odors. I was in an american PX once and I heard two German women trying to figure out what deoderant was. And the streetcars in the summertime...gag.

HAHA!!! I was joking about the no deodorant. I don't always wear it in the winter but I always wear it in the summer. I'd be gagging myself if I didn't.

But I am a vegetarian. And I'm wearing sandals.

233. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196938 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 4:12 pm

Seems my post got deleted.
If not I apologize for the double post.

Anyhow, seriously I am excited to visit Israel and I have some questions about travel, namely, stamp in the passport... do I have to get it, can it be on a seperate sheet of paper. This is because some of the Arab "states" (read: tin pot dictatorships) don't like Israeli stamps, and I would like to travel around the Arab world some more as well.

I have no idea what your options are I've had dual citizenship from birth. HAHA!!! I could go to any Arab country I wanted to because there are no stamps from Israel on my American Passport.

Call the Israeli Embassey and ask them what your options are. You'll need a Visa anyways.

If you have stamps from Arab countries in your passport be prepared for some serious interogations when you enter and leave Israel. We take security very seriously. I've never had any problems but I've heard stories. My brother got stopped all the time from the time he was about 12. Apparently there's a serious criminal called David Horowitz that's wanted somewhere.

Last resort option could be to declare that passport stolen if you don't mind paying for a new one.

234. Science teacher dissed evolution

Comment #196905 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 3:13 pm

Ah! I understand; 'He's just one guy, obviously not representative' or 'He's not in MY religion' or 'He just doesn't understand, that is not what MY God wants him to do' or 'All religions have their extremists; no-one condones that'.

I realize you were being sarcastic, but, he wasn't just "one guy".

Other teachers knew what he was doing, the principle had to know what he was doing and I can't believe none of the parents knew. He was BRANDING their children on the forearm. If they didn't know they don't deserve to be parents.

235. Lawsuit filed over 'I Believe' plates in S.C.

Comment #196903 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 3:10 pm

This wouldn't bother me so much if they offered plates that said "I Don't Believe" as well as plates for EVERY religious denomination in the world.

236. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196888 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 2:50 pm

it was because the Jews (prior to the 1948 war) came and slaughtered Arabs at Deir Yassin (which of course was a month before any Arab army attacked Israel).

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/1948_War.html

Violence in the Holy Land broke out almost immediately after the UN announced partition on November 29, 1947. Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee's spokesman, had told the UN prior to the partition vote the Arabs would drench "the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood . . . ."1

Husseini's prediction began to come true after the UN announcement. The Arabs declared a protest strike and instigated riots that claimed the lives of 62 Jews and 32 Arabs. By the end of the second week, 93 Arabs, 84 Jews and 7 Englishmen had been killed and scores injured. From November 30-February 1, 427 Arabs, 381 Jews and 46 British were killed and 1,035 Arabs, 725 Jews and 135 British were wounded. In March alone, 271 Jews and 257 Arabs died in Arab attacks and Jewish counter­attacks.2

The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee said the Arabs would "fight for every inch of their country."3 Two days later, the holy men of Al-Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad (holy war) against the Jews.4

The first large-scale assaults began on January 9, 1948, when approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. By February, the British said so many Arabs had infiltrated they lacked the forces to run them back.5 In fact, the British turned over bases and arms to Arab irregulars and the Arab Legion.

In the first phase of the war, lasting from November 29, 1947 until April 1, 1948, the Palestinian Arabs took the offensive, with help from volunteers from neighboring countries. The Jews suffered severe casualties and passage along most of their major roadways was disrupted.

On April 26, 1948, Transjordan's King Abdullah said:

[A]ll our efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem have failed. The only way left for us is war. I will have the pleasure and honor to save Palestine.7

On May 4, 1948, the Arab Legion attacked Kfar Etzion. The defenders drove them back, but the Legion returned a week later. After two days, the ill-equipped and outnumbered settlers were overwhelmed. Many defenders were massacred after they had surrendered.6 This was prior to the invasion by the regular Arab armies that followed Israel's declaration of independence.
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The war had started even though no real army had attacked.

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As for the precious Oslo process... who fucked this up???? Remember Baruch Goldstein, a radical Jew who walked into the Tomb of the Patriarchs and murdered a group of Palestinians (29 in total). The Israelis were doing nothing to stop this kind of behavior, allowing Meir Kahane to remain in the Knesset and the like.

I remember Baruch Goldstein VERY well. That was an incredibly tragic incident where one man lost his mind and that was his reaction. It was not planned and there was no way to stop it.

Baruch was a doctor. He worked in the emergency room at a Shaarei Tzedek hospital in Jerusalem. Just before he did it he told someone that he couldn't handle what he was seeing in the ER. The victims from the terror attacks would go half to Hadassa and half to Shaarei Tzedek. It finally drove him mad.

Meir Kahana was outlawed and not allowed to run for Knesset in 1985 9 years before this happened.

http://www.milechai.com/judaism/Rabbi-Meir-Kahane.html

237. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #196880 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 2:30 pm

That's their answer to everything. Kill.

The fact that they can associate the words "honor" and "kill" says it all.

I can't think of another culture in the world where there is such a thing as honor killing.

Even in Japan it was suicide not killing someone else.

Unfortunately I've heard quite a few stories of muslim women being killed for "honor" by their fathers and/or brothers. This is the first i've heard of a woman being killed for talking in public. Would he have prefered they talk in private? I'm rambling because I can't believe this happened and was condoned.

238. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196860 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 1:58 pm

How about this, I limit my critique to sandal wearing, deodorant-less, granola munchers.

I knew you hated me.

Your loss, I'm smoking hot.

239. Science teacher dissed evolution

Comment #196855 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 1:51 pm

#2 - back to the burning bit. Causing physical harm to the students such that it leaves scarring or marks, even temporarily, is a criminal offense. Parents who did this would potentially be arrested and might lose custody of their children over something like this - why is this fellow not in a jail cell dancing with the proverbial seven foot tall weight-lifter named "Chickles"?

Excellent question.

I wonder if the fact that he's a devout Christian has anything to do with it.

240. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196853 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 1:48 pm

Seriously, there IS no easy solution, rather like there is now no easy solution to Iraq. But letting go of the strangle hold on the Palestinians would be a good start. Hamas was (democratically) elected because they seemed to be the only force that stood up to the Israeli occupation.

I'll say it again. in the early 1990's when Oslo was being implemented Hammas starting sending in the suicide bombers. Rabin did not put any restrictions on the Palestinians and the attacks got worse and worse until he was assissinated and Netanyahu took over and started closing down the West Bank and bulldozing terrorist houses. The suicide bombings dropped dramatically.

Hammas and the Islamic Jihad are responsible for the stranglehold on the Palestinians for the past 14 years. There was no way we would continue to let them butcher us and do nothing. Israel has as nuch if a right to defend herself against terrorists as the USA or any other country does.

Hammas and the Islamic Jihad are the ones that have been impending the peace process for the past 20 years.

Hammas came into power because the Palestinian Authority was so corrupt and none of the aid was getting to the people. They pretty much gave up on the peace process as we did. They were just hoping to have a fairer government that allowed them to get some of the relief the rest of the world was pouring into their governments hands.

241. Science teacher dissed evolution

Comment #196797 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 12:51 pm

If this guy actually burned flesh, I'd say his personal problems go way beyond teaching religion in a science classroom. Seems like he might need to be in an involuntary therapeutic environment for a few decades. The school administration and school board might check in for a few therapeutic sessions also.

I agree.

It's funny that he caught on the least offensive thing tha the did. I could care less if a teacher wants to have a bible sitting on their desk. What they teach, say and how they behave towards the children is so much more important.

242. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196780 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 12:35 pm

For fucks sake you are getting annoying. There are oil fields in Texas pumping barrels of oil. They get the market value for their oil.

I never said that Exxon gets $137.00 a barrel.

243. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196757 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 12:11 pm

If we had spent the money we wasted on the war with Iraq on developing sustainable energy technology and infrastructure we wouldn't need oil at $137.00 a barrel.

That would be two birds with one stone. Instead we wated all that money on a stupid war that only helped Bush's cronies. Who got all the development projects in Iraq? And if oil is $137.00 a barrel then all of Bush's oil friends in Texas (and Bush) are getting $137.00 a barrel too.

244. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196579 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 7:22 am

Oh, and if the Muslim Palestinians are so savage, why aren't the Palestinian Israelis killing Jews? You have thousands of them who are your neighbors. What happened? Did you manage to separate out the polite ones?

Some of them do attack. Most of them don't because they know they have a better life in Israel which is a very modern and democratic country than they would in monarchy run fundamentalist Arab states. Again, I lived there for 30 years and I've talked to a lot of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs over the years. Most of them simply want it all to end and live in peace just like we do. It's fundamentalist groups like the Hammas and Islamic Jihad that stop this from happening.

I'll be back in a few hours.

245. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196574 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 7:15 am

al,

I'm not disputing the dates you are giving. Jews were expelled and other people came in. If you're going to go back to biclical times when laws and morality was different from waht it was today I dare you to show me single modern country when massacres did not occur in the past.

esuther,

I missed this earlier. The British did not oversee the Israeli State. When it was voted on in the UN, Britain abstained. They later offered their help and it was refused. After everything they had done to deny us our rights and allow the Arabs to massacre us and prevent Jews from Euroupe entering the country, remember the White Papers? If Jews had been allowed in between 1920 and 1935, if the Balfour Declaration had been honored, the Holocaust might not have happened.

Furthermore, the British knew about the concentration camps and death camps from the Yishuv and they could have bombed the infrastructure that the Nazis were using to annihalate the Jews but didn't. The same can be said about the US. At least they had a bit of a conciense and realized that we need a state and voted for it.
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Ethnic cleansing? Are you kidding me?

First of all you're right I disagree that anyone was forced out. But, let's say they were-how does that constitute ethnic cleansing? If that constituted ethnic cleansing then the two expulsions of the Jews from Israel was ethnic cleansing as well. Well guess what. We are still around and so are the Palestinians.

There are over a million Arabs in Israel today with Israeli citizenship. If the Arabs were forced out and not allowed to return how did those Arabs get there?

Some of them panicked and ran away. Israel did not allow them to return. They want to return because their "brothers" won't let them into their countries because they make good propaganda that can be used against the "infidels".
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al,

At Qibya shots were fired by both sides. Less than 20 dead. That's not a massacre. Sabra and Shatila were massacres.

246. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196551 by TeraBrat on June 20, 2008 at 6:37 am

esuther,

1. November 2, 1917 ring a bell?

2. There have always been Jews living in Israel. The largest Jewish communities were in Jerusalem, Safed and Tiberius. These were the remnants of the hundreds of thousands of Jews that were expelled from the land two thousand years ago.

So whether it "promised" or not we were there first.

3. Read what al-rawandi said.

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About the settlements. I've lived for short periods on settlements in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip. I've talked to these people. The people who live there honestly believe that what they are doing is enhancing the security of Israel. If there was any way they could believe that the Palestinians truely wanted peace they would happily evacuate.

The fact is that the Palestinians use the settlements as an excuse. If Israel did everything the Arab world wanted the only thing that would happen is that we would get attacked again and be in a much worse position.

Please remember that about 90% of these people are Muslims the rest are Christians. The Muslim faith calls for the death and destruction of all "infedils" and Jews are "infedils". There is a high percentage of atheists and agnostics in Israel, I'm estimating 20%, an much higher percentage of "traditionalists" about 50%, and the Jewish faith is not concerned with killing or forcing its ideas on the rest of the world. Those are fundamental differences in outlook and tolerance that cannot be disputed

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dot,

What is racist about being proud of my race? I didn't put anyone else down.

Have you ever heard of "black pride"?

What's the difference?

We have specific genetic markers and diseases that only Jews can get. That makes us a race.

247. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196378 by TeraBrat on June 19, 2008 at 8:26 pm

al-rawandi

Here's a link about what happened at Deir Yassin

http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac17.htm

I'm going to quote you

Propaganda is an art form in the Arab world

What you described sounded like BS to me because none of those rogue units or the Hagana,Yishuv, and Palmach used swords or bayonets. The whole thing about women and children being gutted is Arab propaganda. The attack on Deir Yassin was part of the War of Independance, Israel did not start that war. Deir Yassin was a strategic point to capture.

Some atrocities did happen Qibya. Not quite a massacre.

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_249.shtml

248. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196367 by TeraBrat on June 19, 2008 at 8:02 pm

The UN and Islam strike again.

249. Teen's death blamed on faith healing

Comment #196352 by TeraBrat on June 19, 2008 at 6:43 pm

After earlier deaths involving children of Followers of Christ believers, a 1999 Oregon law struck down religious shields for parents who treat their children solely with prayer. No one had been prosecuted under it until the Worthingtons' case.

So after all those kids died and the law was finally changed these people still didn't get it. Stupid people.

250. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196339 by TeraBrat on June 19, 2008 at 5:42 pm

And finally, on "I've been there and I know what happened". If you have access to Arabic media (especially Al Jazeera) you may want to listen to the bitter testimony of the now elderly Palestinians who were uprooted during the 20s through to the 50s for the sake of your immediate ancestors.

Now I know that that's lies because the British were in power until 1948 and they never uprooted a single arab.

I didn't say I've been there I said I lived there for 30 years. Unless you lived there for 30 years and saw with your own eyes what goes on there how can you judge? I suggest you read The Jerusalem Post instead of Al Jazeera. Go read "breaking the silence" it's here on this website and then we'll see what you think of Al Jazeera. That's your source for the truth. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I read the report.

56. Fifty-two Palestinian deaths had been confirmed by the hospital in Jenin by the end of May 2002. IDF also place the death toll at approximately 52. A senior Palestinian Authority official alleged in mid-April that some 500 were killed, a figure that has not been substantiated in the light of the evidence that has emerged.

There doesnt seem to be any controversy over the 52.

As for Israel standing in the way of theinvestigation that's nonsense too. Israel wanted certain assurences, based on the bias of the UN against Israel that was perfectly understandable.

(f) Israel's Ministerial Committee on National Security (the Security Cabinet) met early on 30 April, after which it issued the following statement: "Israel has raised essential issues before the United Nations for a fair examination. As long as these terms have not been met, it will not be possible for the clarification process to begin." In the absence of a formal indication of the terms on which the Government of Israel would cooperate with the fact-finding team, this statement was reviewed against the backdrop of various public statements by, and telephone conversations that I held with, senior Israeli officials. I was drawn reluctantly to the conclusion that, while continuing to express its concerns to the United Nations mainly in the form of procedural issues, Israel had developed concerns about Security Council resolution 1405 (2002) that were fundamental in nature.

.

And this part has been totally ignored.

18. From the beginning of March until 7 May, Israel endured approximately 16 bombings, the large majority of which were suicide attacks. More than 100 persons were killed and scores more wounded. Throughout this period, the Government of Israel, and the international community, reiterated previous calls on the Palestinian Authority to take steps to stop terrorist attacks and to arrest the perpetrators of such attacks.

Had the attacks stopped there would have been no infiltration of Jenin.

I admit that there were several soldiers who operated out of orders and did commit atrocities. Those soldiers were put on trial and sent to jail.