201. The Child Preachers

Comment #163853 by Corylus on April 19, 2008 at 7:28 am

Santi Tafarella

It's startling to hear a BRIT talk about a young artist who talks to God as "weird"--as if he's never read BLAKE!

and

But she attributes her gifts as a poet to the Watts hymnal and her saturation as a little girl in its quatrains.

You know, it isn't commonly known, but much of Blake's Songs of Innocence and Experience are a response to; and a parody of; Issac Watt's vile Divine and Moral Songs for Children.

For example, Watts:
Praise for the Gospel
Lord, I ascribe it to thy grace,
And not to chance as others do,
That I was born of Christian race,
And not a heathen or a Jew

Then Blake:
Divine Image
And all must love the human form
In heathen Turk or Jew.
Where mercy, love and pity dwell
There God is dwelling too.

Were her parents abusing her by exposing her in church to all that heaven and hell Bible stuff in the hymnal at a young age?

If they were teaching it as fact YES. If they were teaching it to improve artistic sensibilities no, but they would have been way, way better off with Blake.

Art and poetry and amazing things, but to excuse child abuse, by saying that it increases artistic sensibilities is IMHO missing the point entirely. Art is an amazing thing that adds to our experience of life; but is not the reason for experience. It is not an excuse to impose suffering.

Also, there are poets and there are poets.

P.S. Have you considered the possibility that, if children are emotionally stunted and brought up in an atmosphere of fear instead of love, then becoming artists might just be one of many, many things that they then become incapable of?

202. Victims: Pope Benedict Protects Accused Pedophile Bishops

Comment #162858 by Corylus on April 17, 2008 at 3:21 pm

Cartomancer

....
altar boy
altered boy
whipping boy
church organist
church mouse

layman

Just to be clear. I personally am a dormouse not a church mouse; I wouldn't want to be the penultimate member of that particular pecking order :)

203. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #162538 by Corylus on April 17, 2008 at 3:51 am

Egomaniac

Bravo, my fellow atheists!

Your first sentence was a lie. I see you are now moving on to justifying lying...

What if pursuing that lie that they believed in made their lives more fulfilled?

You might want to look at the title of this article and have a think.

Belief in God leading to morality?? Heard that argument before; laughed at it before.

204. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #161620 by Corylus on April 15, 2008 at 1:03 pm

Yep - twas me with the bold. I was about to close my tags and my connection when t**s up.

Sorry!

205. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #161592 by Corylus on April 15, 2008 at 12:38 pm

Seeker. Of.knowledge With a handle like that and comments like this

What is the smallest fraction?

What is the biggest number?

I am beginning to suspect that you might be a stoner. Dude; toodle off and get some snacks. You know you want to.
Kardashovel hang in there. Head down until the stupid storm passes; people will be able to chat after they are done.

206. For sale: 13-year-old virgin

Comment #161563 by Corylus on April 15, 2008 at 12:10 pm

I think he did say that he is a philosophy professor, so in a professional sense at least, he is a philosopher

Nah, he didn't say he was a professor - he said he taught philosophy. For all we know he is teaching it at GCSE (16 year old) level at a sports academy in Slough.

Trouble is he is both right and wrong.

Right because:
a) you cannot get an ought from an is.

b) there is a difference between descriptive and prescriptive statements.

c) Objective moral truths do not exist (or, at the very least, if they do there is no way we can have privileged access to them)*

Wrong because:
a) There is a difference between metaethics (which is what he was discussing aka abstract stuff) and applied ethics (what most people on here were talking about aka real life decisions about real people). It's all very well throwing fancy philosophical terms like 'normative' about, and talking about different types of 'statements'. In real life though, you simply have to make judgement calls. Sometimes you just have to say "that sucks: stop it".

b) This brings me to my next point, yes, moral judgements are emotional and often irrational and ... pauses for breath.... sodding good job too . We make moral judgements in light of trying to maximise happiness and minimise harm, if we take emotion out of the equation with a sneer and snide reference to slave morality then what are you left with? Complete relativism? ... f*&k me... ethical egoism?? (Priggish Kantism is one way out of this, but it doesn't float my boat).

It is possible to be aware that making moral judgements on the basis of the 'yuk factor' alone is generally a bad plan, but at the same time taking into account emotional experience.

Because if you ignore emotional experience then you cannot quantify 'happiness' or 'harm' in any realistic fashion; making the whole business a monumental waste of time.

c) Also, [whispers behind hand] those distinctions that philosophers make, you know, those uncrossable lines in the sand, like fact/value or analytic/synthetic... not as clear cut as some make out...

*I am aware the many people, would disagree on this one, but I am putting my personal cards on the table here.

P.S. Bonzai, sweetie, some people manage to study philosophy and still retain their sunny dispositions... just saying :-)

207. The simple falsehood at the heart of Expelled

Comment #161199 by Corylus on April 15, 2008 at 2:56 am

David
You can now sign in under your own name, yet you chose not to do that with your posts above.

Why not? I can think of a number of possible reasons for this, but please; do tell us why yourself.

208. For sale: 13-year-old virgin

Comment #161147 by Corylus on April 15, 2008 at 12:05 am

[Wakes up] I'm going to be grouchy all day now because I didn't get my full nine hours. Hope you're proud of yourself Henri...

Arh, I see Mphil has dealt: good.

209. For sale: 13-year-old virgin

Comment #161009 by Corylus on April 14, 2008 at 4:53 pm

Nah, Henri's no Christian - just a wind-up merchant.

Anyway, fascinating as this all is - I need my sleep. Henri - can you kick off fights at a more reasonable hour in future? Cheers.

210. For sale: 13-year-old virgin

Comment #160981 by Corylus on April 14, 2008 at 3:59 pm

Henri

I'm actually a really nice guy...

.

Is that an expression of desire or fact??

211. For sale: 13-year-old virgin

Comment #160971 by Corylus on April 14, 2008 at 3:53 pm

Henri

No, I behave in 'moral' ways, but cannot rationally say that way is superior to the ways of a cold-hearted assassin.

By calling some action moral (scarequotes or no) you are making a judgement on the matter.

212. For sale: 13-year-old virgin

Comment #160953 by Corylus on April 14, 2008 at 3:21 pm

I'm not trolling, just trying to point out common errors which people do not want to hear.

Oh, I see, this is in the nature of a public service announcement.

Deary me and there was me thinking you just wanted to show off for a bit. How stupid of me to have misunderstood....

213. For sale: 13-year-old virgin

Comment #160946 by Corylus on April 14, 2008 at 3:12 pm

Henri

"It is not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger"

It is not reason we are talking about - it is passion - and you know it.

Quit trolling.

214. For sale: 13-year-old virgin

Comment #160933 by Corylus on April 14, 2008 at 2:55 pm

Henri

I refer you to Bertrand Russell, A J Ayer, Wittgenstein, Nietzsche, Marx, et al, on this matter.

Kaiserkriss

Quoting a few fellow philosophers from previous centuries does not let you off the hook that easily.

Damn straight Kaiserkriss, especially when there is a giant of moral philosophy that he chose to omit.....

DISPUTES with men, pertinaciously obstinate in their principles, are, of all others, the most irksome;except, perhaps, those with persons, entirely disingenuous, who really do not believe the opinions they defend, but engage in the controversy, from affectation, from a spirit of opposition, or from a desire of showing wit and ingenuity, superior to the rest of mankind. The same blind adherence to their own arguments is to be expected in both; the same contempt of their antagonists; and the same passionate vehemence, in in forcing sophistry and falsehood. And as reasoning is not the source, whence either disputant derives his tenets; it is in vain to expect, that any logic, which speaks not to the affections, will ever engage him to embrace sounder principles.

Those who have denied the reality of moral distinctions, may be ranked among the disingenuous disputants; nor is it conceivable, that any human creature could ever seriously believe, that all characters and actions were alike entitled to the affection and regard of everyone. The difference, which nature has placed between one man and another, is so wide, and this difference is still so much farther widened, by education, example, and habit, that, where the opposite extremes come at once under our apprehension, there is no scepticism so scrupulous, and scarce any assurance so determined, as absolutely to deny all distinction between them. Let a man's insensibility be ever so great, he must often be touched with the images of Right and Wrong; and let his prejudices be ever so obstinate, he must observe, that others are susceptible of like impressions. The only way, therefore, of converting an antagonist of this kind, is to leave him to himself. For, finding that nobody keeps up the controversy with him, it is probable he will, at last, of himself, from mere weariness, come over to the side of common sense and reason.
David Hume: An enquiry concerning the principles of morals
[My emphases]

Come on Henri this is a serious story. 'Nuff playing.

215. Richard Dawkins' secular army must be stopped. God is behind some of our greatest art

Comment #160412 by Corylus on April 14, 2008 at 3:53 am

But now we're all supposed to travel light, be supple, so that we can swap jobs, partners or political allegiances at a moment's notice. But this perpetual state of agnosticism, this lack of commitment, must surely be corrosive.

Well, it seems that belief in belief lies at the base of this author's view. (Trans: the peasants need religion or they will revolt; but us members of the intelligentsia we are above such things).

Patronising idiot.

Or maybe, it is just sour grapes because he doesn't have a part in Dr Who??

216. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #160396 by Corylus on April 14, 2008 at 3:13 am

Comment 160188 by Kardashovel

I would be honored to be your second.

Appreciate the offer. I was curious to see if you would make it. Well done.

Unfortunately, looking at what you describe as 'Vox's sandbox' I see that the people are so far away from me that I don't think I would be able to get significant agreement on anything.

I would suggest that it would be more entertaining to debate the ilk on a matter of politics or culture though.

HeeHee now that's funny. One of those pesky European pinkos on there! Anyhow, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that. I get cross when non-Brits give me political advice on the running of Britain, so it would be inconsistent of me to do the same to a predominantly American audience.

Again, thanks for the offer, but I'll let you off the hook :)

P.S. In answer to your question:

I cannot fairly represent someone that emphatically believes that there is no God because that is simply foolish ...

Oh, I never say that. I say that there is no compelling evidence for he/she/it and that he/she/it is a non-parsimonious explanation. However when people start giving God attributes (other than just that of a creator) then I am happy to point to inconsistencies.

217. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #160087 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 3:54 pm

PBUM

I'm going to bed

Yep me too. All the threads on here recently seem to want to kick off just as I have to snooze. Curses!

218. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #160043 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 2:55 pm

Opps, glossed over this one.

Kardashovel

And I am quite amused at Corylus' offer to argue as a mercenary.

Arh come on. Wouldn't you want me on your side?? Ok, I'm not as scary as some on here, but I am persistent...

Tell you what, find me someone on Vox Day's blog willing to offer that sort of assistance without prompting and I might just go play....

219. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #159933 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 12:28 pm

David

What does the 'A' stand for?

Come on.... How about a straight answer for once.

You know you can do it if you try...

220. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #159918 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 11:52 am

Quetz

Hee hee. Old partying buddies from your bad snake phase?

221. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #159909 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 11:41 am

Personally, I am wondering what the 'A' stands for.

Algernon? Aloysius? Alphonse?

Or maybe something more apposite?

Kaiserkriss

So I wonder what exactly did he ask for us in his prayers? Going from his track record, it would be nice to know before he MIGHT make some claim that his prayers for us have been answered some time in the future.

£87.50 would be nice. Too much month in the money at the moment ;-)

222. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #159893 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 11:05 am

I thought that suggestion might cause a response...

Stryer
Objection noted: I didn't have you down as the natural advocate type anyway :-)

I have no idea how it could work. Might be best as a forum thing - trouble is, most people just see the front page and stay there.

Also, the person advocating would have to preface every post in bold with "I am advocating this position not necessarily holding it" to prevent confusion. It would be tough to organise and Logicel is right in that we are all different with different interests.

Maybe, just sometimes suggesting it to people that appear genuine might be a good thing??

Phil has a point - if they tell you to stick your suggestion where the sun don't shine it will give some indication how open minded they are willing to be.

I don't know how it could consistently work in practice.

I suspect I am just thinking about this because I have noticed myself throwing out the odd 'get of jail free' card to people when I feel sorry for them - or I think they are being swamped. Anyway, I always test out ideas by looking into the opposite position. *shrugs*

223. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher

Comment #159888 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 10:57 am

I have already told him to get a new login name Diacanu.

Looks like he didn't listen.

224. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #159851 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 8:55 am

Hurray! I now know how to talk down Styrer when he gets wound up: distract with Cat Stevens.

I'm a' singin' Moon Shadow next time :-) LaLa

Dr Benway

What to do about all this

Maybe one of us should offer to 'fight alongside them' when they come on so they don't feel swamped? This will

a) Provide good practice for the person playing 'Devil's (Christian's?) Avocate.

b) Stop the new guy feeling swamped.

c) Seem fair

d) Maybe cut down on rudeness.

e) Also, having someone understand your viewpoint, but still not agree with it can be a thought provoking sensation.

I'm willing to do this now and again, but would probably be best twinned with an Anglican moderate as I know that type of thinking best... real biblebots will need someone else.

225. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher

Comment #159847 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 8:41 am

Layla

Heck, I'd go, just to be part of the experience (though most Hajj packages offered in this country start in the neighborhood of $5000 a head, so it would be an expensive field trip)!

Yes, I've always suspected that the hotels in Mecca put their prices up during that time of the year ;-)

226. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #159812 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 7:36 am

Teehee.

I am now tempted to ask Stryer what he thinks of that Westlife* cover of Father and Son, but I wouldn't want to get him cross :-)

*Hides behind a chair with Bonzai...*

P.S. Hi David, nice to see you full of the joys of spring.

[Edit] *Or was it Boyzone?? Nevermind: same difference.

227. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher

Comment #159800 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 7:16 am

Julius

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

I am very glad to hear that you don't waste your notes.

I am also sure that the Kensington Church is very pretty. However, I don't think I will be going; I couldn't bring myself to even give symbolic coins, which I then hope will go to the more reasonable causes.

To my mind that would be like me, (an ethical vegetarian) paying for a ticket to go to a function organised by the Meat Marketing Board and desperately hoping that they only spend my money on the cucumber sandwiches.

I simply would not be able to square it with my conscience. So, I doubt that we will agree on this one. Ho Hum: happens :)

Anyway, one good thing, maybe our chat will show our visitors from Expelled that atheists do not avoid Churches because they are scared of them.

In fact, there is one that I visit often.

It has been converted into a library; I sit under the beautiful high ceiling reading my books and my little black atheist heart sings :P

228. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #159763 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 4:02 am

Arh, I see that David Robertson is busy playing with his new toy... and his new toy is playing with him.

Seriously though, I do feel sorry for Richard Morgan. It is obvious that he has spent his life looking for one specific thing that will make him consistently happy. I fear he is in for disappointment this time too. Happiness is not a thing to be found, it is a side effect of action: an epiphenomenon.

Until he twigs that one he is never going to find what he is looking for.

229. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher

Comment #159755 by Corylus on April 13, 2008 at 3:21 am

Hi Julius

Don't worry, I am not going to ask you to deal with another very long post. It is just that there is one thing that I am curious about with regards to the whole 'cultural catholic' thing. I wonder whether you can help me out.

You say that you enjoy going to church for the ritual and what have you. You enjoy it. Fine.

OK, not my idea of enjoyment. I would rather have a lay in on a Sunday morning. Going to church would involve waking up early, putting and on my best clothes, going to a big building, listening to man droning on etc... only to fall back asleep again! . Personally, I would rather just roll over, start snoring again and save myself the whole effort :)

Anyway, I digress. My question.

When the collection plate comes round do you put money in it?

I am sure that you are smart enough to see what I am asking. I can understand how people enjoy ritual and nice buildings. What I cannot understand is why people continue to finance institutions whose rationale they do not agree with, and whose track record is, to put it at its mildest, questionable.

I am curious as to how you deal with this conflict. Maybe you just slip a button on the plate and hope no one notices?

Thanks.

230. Inadequate, private and late apology with grotesquely inadequate excuse

Comment #159097 by Corylus on April 11, 2008 at 12:35 pm

This takes me back to this thread.

http://richarddawkins.net/article,621,Panel-discussion-on-atheism-where-no-atheists-are-included,CNN

This was when another idiot made the statement that she just wished all atheists would 'shut up'.

I would urge anyone who hasn't seen this one to give it a view.

231. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #159066 by Corylus on April 11, 2008 at 11:59 am

Never mind Cartomancer I laughed alot.

232. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #159060 by Corylus on April 11, 2008 at 11:45 am

Prankster

Let's all agree to let it go?

I think that is a very good idea.

Mike, I wasn't happy at all about what you said (just as you weren't happy about what I said). However, am willing to admit that it is possible that you did not mean the things you said to come across the way that they did.

To that end, I am willing to draw a line under this whole business and let this thread die a death.

233. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #158802 by Corylus on April 11, 2008 at 3:54 am

Steve

(I really hope this isn't RM. It would be desperately sad if it was).

I don't think so, for all his faults Richard Morgan was never that homophobic.

I agree with Paula, that this is an American.

Eg The mention of Walmart expecting everyone to know what it is and then this...

For if the High Priests of Academia are right, then through Humanism men can become gods. Their rhetoric justifies Pragmatism, Socialism, and Bureaucracy controlled by PhDs as Progressivism under Officialdom. In short, the Statistist dogma becomes Scientism and the Collectivist governance becomes a Technocracy.

RichardM, was never that concerned with politics.

He would not make a statement like this, or I think, understand why it is an utter pile of drivel.

234. Expelled producers accused of copyright infringement

Comment #158064 by Corylus on April 10, 2008 at 3:29 am

A bit of good news for the morning.

I wonder whether this will delay the release date? That is the sort of thing that costs film companies money.

235. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #157860 by Corylus on April 9, 2008 at 4:06 pm

Mark Smith

I hear you, and admire you for making that comment. I am not one to make snap judgements. I always always try to avoid causing hurt whenever I can.

However, I put one question to you. This man has been a member of this site since 2006. He has been posting all in a variety of threads.

Bearing this in mind do you really think that he was unaware of Benway's gender?

Personally I don't think so.

[Edit] Goldy

I always notice you. You are kind, but you don't take any nastiness. I admire that.

I agree that this site has got fraught in the last couple of days; there has been a whole lot of stirring going on. I have asked people to chill myself, and completely understand where you are coming from.

However, I really don't like nastiness either.

236. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #157804 by Corylus on April 9, 2008 at 2:45 pm

Dr Benway

I really, really try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I let a lot of things slide, because it is not fun when you are continually looking out for the worst. For example, I tried very hard with Richard Morgan because

a) He seemed needy and I'm a sucker for waifs and strays
b) He was grumpy. I have a certain fondness for grumps as they are fun to play with and are often very soft underneath.
c) I did see his, somewhat overfamiliar, comments, but put them down to on older man driving up to little blue pill city and overcompensating.

Strangely though, I was surprised, but not surprised, when you busted him lying. At the moment, I don't know what hell is going on in his head and I frankly don't give a shit.

Mikejswalker though, is an entirely different kettle of fish (I don't think he is Richard Morgan, I don't think his head is filled with wool, I think it is something else) ...

On first reading I flicked past the rug comment as my brain filed it as a strange (mebbe hippy) reference to walking barefoot on carpets. (I can be naive at times). I looked again when you pointed it out and was not impressed.

Personally, what clinched it for me was this:

I can't post much more coz i'm sitting across from a lady i'm having dinner with and she's looking at me and my laptop funny.

followed by

Typing through desert.

The nasty implication from this poster being that "I am disrespecting another woman (who doesn't know about it) whilst at the same time hassling you... Bitch."

I could hear the vile laughter and felt sick.

Later on, when busted, he tried the 'distract with compliments ploy'...

I do not try any under handed means to court or gain favour. I applaud when i feel it's warranted and laugh at Benway and Reverend and marvel at Mphil and Allanf and Allanw and chuckle at Styrers' dickensian speak and smile at your balanced interjections.

Finally, we see someone who uses phrases like 'extreme calumny', but misspells toupee as toupea.

For pity's sake, just how fucking stupid does he think the people on here are?

237. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #157660 by Corylus on April 9, 2008 at 11:49 am

For everyone's information

I googled 'ASMarques' and 'holocaust'.*

It appears that this individual gets up to this sort of thing a great deal.

*Warning: If you do the same you will have to disinfect your PC.

238. The Atheist Next Door

Comment #157051 by Corylus on April 8, 2008 at 2:06 pm

Phil

Nah! It was faked. You could see when they turned away, they had glinty red eyes....

Damn straight. That poodle looked pretty shifty too.

239. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #157026 by Corylus on April 8, 2008 at 1:47 pm

Al

all will be forgotton

That's the spirit.

Styrer

Strikes me that you are the type of person to wade in guns blazing as soon as you think people are being unfairly treated.

It's a nice personality trait, but you do get false positives sometimes; especially if you jump in before the old red mist clears.

Come on, mate, let it drop.

---

A general comment on this whole business:

I am feeling bad for someone called Richard right now and his surname is not Morgan.

[Edit: looks like I was too late. Oh, well]

240. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #156502 by Corylus on April 7, 2008 at 5:03 pm

Mike, I read what people write on here and talk back to them primary to learn things.

You cannot teach me anything more about certain types of people than I don't already know.

We are done.

241. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #156493 by Corylus on April 7, 2008 at 4:46 pm

Mike

You are shitting me here arn't ya boys?

Boys?? WTF?

Why does everyone I speak to on message boards always assume I am male?

Do I have little dormouse testicles showing in my picture? Have I had my fur cut in a particularly mannish fashion?

Oh rats. It's the whiskers isn't it! I've tried bleaching, electronlysis: the works.

The blighters just keep growing back.

242. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #156484 by Corylus on April 7, 2008 at 4:20 pm

Peace

mikejswalker -you know the Doc is a bird right?

Huh? Don't the wings and the beak give it away :D

Seriously though, he got told off for patronisingly using the term 'ladies' earlier on. I think he was just ringing the changes.

Seems to have a real downer on Benway though.

Maybe he just doesn't like smart girls.

243. Russell T Davies: Return of the (tea) Time Lord

Comment #156479 by Corylus on April 7, 2008 at 3:54 pm

Well! I make a throwaway comedy comment about leotards, thinking that it might raise the odd smile, but no responses, toodle off to do some work, and return to find lots of comments.

Mitchell
Sounds like you have a very tough situation to deal with there. Not going to try to empathise as I haven't been where you are, and I know you hate being patronised, but you do have my sympathy.

My father is a 'don't give a stuff agnostic' he is happy to go to church services if he has a reason - weddings etc, I think mainly because he likes to sing. Generally he isn't bothered either way.

My mother was for many years what I would call an 'angry agnostic' (they do exist!)

E.g. "I don't know whether or not god exists, but I really, really hope he does, just so that when I die...... I can give that %&*&wit a piece of my mind!" ( Irate would love her) She has since moved to an atheist position as she finds the problem of evil impossible to overcome.

I do not know whether you will ever change your father's mind. I think you are being very wise taking it slowly though: best to try to make people bend rather than break. Maybe the suggestion of going to a more moderate church might be a good thing? Slowly and gently is often the best way. Make it clear you love him; so it is not always a fight. Best of luck.

Sargeist I really do think Marilyn has a huge sense of humour :-) it is just that people don't expect it, because of the way he looks.

Cartomancer
Blimy! Your chum has been doing some thinking.
Personally, I am not very good with the whole issue of gender politics in that my interests tend toward other things and, as a dormouse, I don't get out much. All that sleeping cramps my style. Plus,as a straight female most of it simply goes over my head. Case in point (as I appear to be in self-disclosure mode) when I was studying in Brighton I used to frequent what I thought was a simply a nice friendly pub. (You can see where this is going can't you??).

I remember noticing that the barmaid was a big tough looking girl, I recall being a little miffed that no men ever chatted me up, but the penny only dropped when I went to the lav one day and saw graffiti on the wall stating 'real lesbians don't eat quiche'. (Even then my first thought was 'stop dissing vegetarians'). I am very, very daft at times.

Accordingly, I simply don't know what to make of your friends theory. Seems hugely overcomplicated to me. Let's put this in context, some women like ultra masculine men, some women like gentle and sensitive men. This is a matter of personalities not politics. I fail to see why things should be more complicated just because people are homosexual.

In relationships you have to be both willing to look after others and be able to trust enough to allow yourself to be looked after in turn. This is very rarely equal though; certain types of people tend towards taking on one or the other role.

You like sensitive men? Maybe you just like looking after the people you care about. Nothing political about that. Just human.

Some men like masculine men? Maybe they just like being looked after. Nothing political about that. Just human.

P.S. Have to say though that the Chav fascination business is just surreal?? WTF!! Now That's weird.

Geoff

Dunno if I qualify as "uber-straight" or not, but in my case the sexual preference of a musician/band is totally irrelevant to whether I like their music or not.

Good for you. I try very hard to separate the art from the artist. I manage this with sexual preference, but less often with other viewpoints.

For example, I think Enders Game is a brilliant book which I really enjoyed the first time I read it, however, when I later found out what a furniture chewing, moon baying, batshit insane bigot Scott Orson Card is I could never view it in the same way again.

----

Irate,
Simply Red. Oh dear. I hear the dislike of Mick Hucknall. However, I do hope that this is not just due to his ginger hair; as that's prejudice. Just because it is less common doesn't mean that it is unnatural :P

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Richard If you are reading, sorry for taking a thread off tangent again! I hope you enjoyed your time on the set of Doctor Who.

244. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #156181 by Corylus on April 7, 2008 at 3:19 am

Yeah, I know Keith,

But, as the man said, "Blessed are the cheesemakers".

245. Russell T Davies: Return of the (tea) Time Lord

Comment #156179 by Corylus on April 7, 2008 at 3:08 am

Mitchell

Which is odd, as bigotted and hateful as he is against homosexuality, he still doesn't mind being huge fans of Queen

What is it with uber straight men liking Queen? I know someone like this myself. I can only conclude that they manage to completely push Freddie Mercury's life style out of their minds; or maybe there are a few that simply do not realise?

I recall as a kid watching Freddie on the television jumping about in a leotard. "Wow, I thought, he looks just like a P.E (physical education) instructor!"

This to me was the epitome of masculinity.

I was not the most savvy of children :D

246. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #156175 by Corylus on April 7, 2008 at 2:47 am

Some of you might find this interesting reading (it is Wikipedia; but I don't give a flying &*%$ - it's a good summary!)

It concerns the subject of defence mechanisms. These are the strategies that we, as vulnerable humans, use to deal with harsh reality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_mechanisms

There are a lot of mechanisms; some more helpful than others. Humour is one of the helpful (level 4) ones, as is coming over all altruistic and empathic.

The fact that people deal with reality in different ways does not mean that they are unfeeling; the opposite in fact.

Accordingly, I do not worry about people with different mechanisms than me so as long as they are level four or (sparingly) level three. I worry about people who do not need them at all e.g. "no sense no feeling".

If anyone is interested, my personal favourite defence mechanism is intellectualisation. Not always healthy, but I never claim to be perfect :-)

Lets all cut each other a little slack.

247. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #156008 by Corylus on April 6, 2008 at 1:30 pm

I like to run different viewpoints past myself and try them on for size...

At the moment, I am playing the lurking moderate Christian reading the passive/aggressive posts of sdbranum.....

Currently banging head on wall and muttering STFU.

248. A Letter From Hell

Comment #155974 by Corylus on April 6, 2008 at 12:59 pm

IloveRickLyon

This video was made to scare Christians into acting and doing what they were called to do.

Huh? If someone is called to do something why do they need scaring as well?

249. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #155883 by Corylus on April 6, 2008 at 8:32 am

Child.

250. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #155815 by Corylus on April 6, 2008 at 1:12 am

A word of defence for Brian; he called his first sock puppet the latin for sock puppet! The second one was a parody on a fundy.

He was only playing :-)