201. Answers To the Atheists

Comment #30345 by Luthien on April 7, 2007 at 5:27 pm

26. Comment #30284 by ranjani on April 7, 2007 at 11:58 am
"Luthien,
Would it be permissible for me to borrow your logo for the purposes of printing it on one or two T-shirts. Thanks
Ranjani"

Hi, it isn't really my logo, as I borrowed it from www.jesusandmo.net. If you are interested, they actually sell t-shirts on their site with that logo on them :)

202. Answers To the Atheists

Comment #30275 by Luthien on April 7, 2007 at 11:28 am

Oh, and further down:

"Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward." 1 Peter 2:18

203. Answers To the Atheists

Comment #30274 by Luthien on April 7, 2007 at 11:25 am

"Christianity is more a call to rebellion than an insistence on narrow conformity, more a challenge than a set of certainties."

"Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme..." 1 Peter 2:13

Yeh, a real rebel!

204. Militant atheists: too clever for their own good

Comment #30250 by Luthien on April 7, 2007 at 10:38 am

Someone should remind Mr Moor that all children are born atheists!

So how can he argue that atheism is some kind of eliteism?

205. Dawkins vs Haggard: the Python Edition

Comment #30064 by Luthien on April 6, 2007 at 4:07 pm

30. Comment #30007 by Logicel on April 6, 2007 at 5:48 am
28. Comment #29991 by Vee eL on April 6, 2007 at 2:34 am
"I liked the similarity between the two clips:
No information reached Haggerd/petshopman."

LOL

What about his insistance that something nailed to a bit of wood can still be alive a few days later? :-P

206. The Most Hated Family in America

Comment #29868 by Luthien on April 5, 2007 at 8:47 am

96. Comment #29847 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on April 5, 2007 at 7:20 am

OMG! I just watched that and have sent it to everyone I know!!!

Absolutely hilarious!!! :-D

207. Aids Victims Risk Lives

Comment #29483 by Luthien on April 3, 2007 at 4:35 am

I can quite vividly picture the people doing this kind of thing, and though it horrifies me I do understand why it happens (after reading Infidel, which I heartily recommend). There needs to be a huge effort put into education, otherwise people will continue to suffer through their own ignorance and irrational beliefs (I know it seems like an impossible job, but we should at least make a start).

208. A History of Violence

Comment #29449 by Luthien on April 3, 2007 at 1:24 am

49. Comment #29356 by cheshirecat on April 2, 2007 at 4:06 pm
"I can tell you that our entire society is split purely in terms of religion."

"Which side are you on?"

"Side? I am on nobody's side, because nobody is on my side..."

It's odd that even if you say you are an atheist, people still want to know what "side" you are on (hence the old joke: are you a catholic atheist or a protestant atheist), but if you are interested, I had the misfortune of being indoctrinated as catholic. After living and going to school in England (from age 9 to 13), my parents came back here and I was quite shocked at the comparison. As to sides, I am pleased to say that, for the first time, I was able to vote for a candidate in our assembly elections who did not represent a "side" (Anna Lo, originally from Hong Kong). I am also pleased to say that she actually got elected.

Russel: Feel free, after all, I nicked it from Jesus and Mo ;-)

209. A History of Violence

Comment #29227 by Luthien on April 2, 2007 at 6:41 am

10. Comment #28903 by the great teapot on March 31, 2007 at 2:27 pm
"I 've just noticed your from Belfast Luthien- You
probablly know better than me about the terrorism there.
Sorry if I have annoyed you."

No, you didn't annoy me (too much :-P). If you are interested, I can tell you that our entire society is split purely in terms of religion. People can tell it from your name, even from your face. Children go to seperate schools based on religion, live in seperate areas, and in some areas only seem to meet to chuck stones at each other. Obviously there have been huge changes to this over the past few years, but these changes are due to efforts to open integrated schools, and the way housing has become less segregated (and perhaps even the huge drop in church attendance and the rise of Atheism).


15. Comment #28927 by Martha on March 31, 2007 at 4:16 pm
"Hey LUTHIEN, I love that avatar of yours: "Thank you for not provoking my uncontrollable lust" Great one! And by the way, that would equally apply to "Christians" (eg Roman Catholics) too, right? (wink)"

Hehe, it certainly would ;-)

I actually got that one from www.jesusandmo.net, which is a great web cartoon if you haven't seen it yet.

210. Postmodernism Disrobed

Comment #29187 by Luthien on April 2, 2007 at 2:41 am

As a student, I remember a housemate was required to take a module on "Philosophy of Science" (as part of a proper SCIENCE degree in Queen's University, Belfast), and came to show me a philosophical definition of "space" they were required to study. It started out saying that Space is that where that which is, is not, and then somehow managed to go on for several pages. Neither of us could make head nor tail of the rest of it, probably because we were from Science and Engineering degrees respectively, and not used to having to pretend to understand bullshit.

Anyone who cannot express their ideas clearly and concisely does not belong in Academia.

211. A History of Violence

Comment #28895 by Luthien on March 31, 2007 at 1:55 pm

LOL great teapot, I just found out yesterday how that was made. YUCK, how inhumane!

212. A History of Violence

Comment #28894 by Luthien on March 31, 2007 at 1:54 pm

So the decline in violence can be linked to the "Age of Reason"?

I think that it is "thinking" that is the key here. Violence will be eliminated when every child grows up with a proper education, and is given the opportunity to develop their own process of rational thought.

We all need to battle ignorance in our daily lives, not by telling people what we think, but by asking them questions that make them think.

213. Selfish genes may drive out disease

Comment #28613 by Luthien on March 30, 2007 at 5:46 am

this confused me, i think i'm misunderstanding something here: how could sterile mosquitoes have 'established themselves'?

I would say that it means that the modified mosquitoes were capable of surviving outside lab conditions, and did not all die after a few days in the wild.

214. Neil Peart cites The God Delusion in new album's liner notes

Comment #28100 by Luthien on March 28, 2007 at 1:53 am

12. Comment #28024 by the great teapot on March 27, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Christ, Progressive rock.
What next star trekkies?

Hey, no trekkie bashing here, ok? Star Trek is a wonderful projection of how the future of the human race could be...

...And they are SOOOOO progressive about android rights ;-)

215. Believers are away with the fairies

Comment #27834 by Luthien on March 27, 2007 at 2:28 am

5. Comment #27826 by gcdavis on March 27, 2007 at 1:40 am
Another brilliant description of the problem by Grayling.

But what about the solution? Of the 150,000 posts to this forum only 10,000 are related to politics and civil action. We are still just a talking shop.

I have never been an activist and loath the idea of joining anything! I guess this attitude is part of the problem, we atheists are too proud of our individualism to band together.

If we fail to make our collective voice heard we are sleepwalking into a dangerous era, as Grayling says appeasement only emboldens it never satisfies.

Do we need to "band together" in the sense that you mean? The vast majority of people out there probably don't realise that religion represents so tiny a minority, and are either unaware of the dangers, or don't know that there is even someone else out there thinking the same thoughts.

I'm not going to join a group. Do you know what I'm doing instead? I'm making noise, talking openly to anyone who will listen about my views. I'm writing letters to newspapers that let religious people go unchallenged (especially local papers), and to my MP. I'm mentioning books that I have read, and lending them to anyone who shows interest. I'm putting some of the nastier bible quotes, or some quotes from people like Bertrand Russell up as my MSN Messenger "quote of the day".

Look at Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and then tell me that one outspoken person can't make a difference! We just need to create the debate.

*** edit ***

Damn it Aleprechaunist, you beat me to it there :-P (looking at your name, I'm now wondering if we are from the same island)

216. Are You Right Eyed Or Left Eyed?

Comment #27738 by Luthien on March 26, 2007 at 12:22 pm

MartinSGill, wow that's great :)

I'm right handed, and after using your technique it looks like I am left eyed. That explains why my partner gets pissed off when I read over his shoulder, cause I finish the page way before he is ready to turn over, and normally end up reading it twice (which would be fine if I didn't bug him to hurry up). ;-)

217. Happy 66th Birthday, Richard Dawkins!

Comment #27650 by Luthien on March 26, 2007 at 1:48 am

*to the tune of Happy Birthday*

Happy birthday to you,
You were born in a zoo,
With the monkeys,
All the monkeys,
Cause we're all monkeys too.

Happy Birthday to the most polite Atheist on the planet.

218. Sex in the 1700s

Comment #27597 by Luthien on March 25, 2007 at 2:41 pm

1. Comment #27335 by Estragon on March 24, 2007 at 5:27 am
It's not porn mum! it's a source of genuine insight into cultural attitudes, sexual norms and social customs!

tee hee hee :D

219. Nigeria teacher dies 'over Koran'

Comment #27539 by Luthien on March 25, 2007 at 7:56 am

I'm just reading "Infidel" at the moment (Ayaan Hirsi Ali), and her description of some of the countries in Africa, and the sort of attitudes people have there, were quite an eye opener. Sadly it seems that things have not changed for the better, only got worse with the amount of Saudi oil money being used to spread their particular brand of Islam.

The thing is, they actually believe that someone who does not "submit to Allah" deserves to die, so it is nothing to do with political, economic, or ethnic differences.

220. Debate between Alister McGrath and Peter Atkins

Comment #27280 by Luthien on March 23, 2007 at 5:44 pm

69. Comment #27275 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on March 23, 2007 at 5:08 pm

Brian, often these people try to claim that this is all Old Testament stuff, and Jesus bcame to correct all this (yeh, I know how weak that is). So I like to use the following quote from the New Testament:

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." 1 Timothy 2:11-12

221. Germany Cites Koran in Rejecting Divorce

Comment #27160 by Luthien on March 23, 2007 at 10:04 am

16. Comment #27130 by cerad on March 23, 2007 at 8:41 am
Seems a bit hypocritical to me that the wife is seeking the protection of German Law while at the same time remaining a Muslim. Muslims (like Christians) tend to believe that God's Laws transcend Man's Laws.

She should either take up her plight inside the Muslim community or else give up being a Muslim.

Oh, and by that logic people with stockholm syndrome deserve to be kidnapped?

How dare you take the attitude that this vulnerable woman should either become an atheist or just bugger off back to her abuser(s)? Have a bit of compassion!

We must remember that it's hard to let go all at once, and it seems that this woman is well on her way to escaping the mental prison of Islam (but of course that is besides the point, as she deserves our protection no matter what delusional beliefs she may or may not hold).

222. Debate between Alister McGrath and Peter Atkins

Comment #27107 by Luthien on March 23, 2007 at 6:53 am

So Alister McGrath is supposed to have grown up here in Belfast? Where the hell is his Irish accent? Why does he talk like a toff?

Oh, and that silly Catholic Atheist / Protestant Atheist joke is soooo old it makes me cringe to hear it trotted out yet again.

*edit*
Oh, and how sad that he didn't like feeling insignificant when looking at the stars. Poor little lamb.

223. If only gay sex caused global warming

Comment #27105 by Luthien on March 23, 2007 at 6:43 am

2. Comment #26988 by Aidan86 on March 22, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Perhaps the answer is to spread the word that gay sex ~does~ cause global warming?

Better to say that global warming causes gay sex ;-)

224. Germany Cites Koran in Rejecting Divorce

Comment #27103 by Luthien on March 23, 2007 at 6:41 am

Sick! That poor woman!

Makes me wonder if muslims who insist on the veil / Burka are using it to cover up the bruises?

225. Piecing Together the Clues of an Old Collision, Iceball by Iceball

Comment #26960 by Luthien on March 22, 2007 at 4:09 pm

hehe, wot about the GOD particle, eh?

226. Britain Proposes Allowing Schools to Forbid Full-Face Muslim Veils

Comment #26958 by Luthien on March 22, 2007 at 3:55 pm

So far, no one has mentioned the "child abuse" factor. This poor 12 year old girl who's parents sued the school, does she have to keep her face covered at all times? What would happen if she decided she didn't want to wear it? I think a child protection officer should investigate this issue further.

Think about it, if I had a kid, and forced them to wear a cardboard box over their head with eye holes cut out of it, social services would descend on my house like a biblical plague (and rightly so). What the hell is the difference?

227. Britain Proposes Allowing Schools to Forbid Full-Face Muslim Veils

Comment #26883 by Luthien on March 22, 2007 at 6:35 am

Don't get bogged down in talk of BNP, or "security concerns", or even the issue of effective communication.

The purpose of the muslim "veil" (and all their talk of women having to dress "modestly") is to put the responsibility for men's sexual conduct on the shoulders of the women.

In light of this, should we allow these attitudes to be propagated in our schools?

If this becomes common, how do you think the boys in the class are going to treat the little girls who they do not consider as "modestly" dressed?

228. Is Your Baby Gay? What If You Could Know? What If You Could Do Something About It?

Comment #26687 by Luthien on March 21, 2007 at 6:50 am

Denoir: Pretty much what the NS article is saying, right?

However, this is not at all the other thing that you suggested:

Luthien: While having more children could stretch your resources, a gay uncle / brother or 2 would offset this disadvantage.



This is group selection and would be immediately be corrupted from within. The genes of the gay uncles would be eliminated pretty fast by the not-quite-as-gay uncles who would have offspring of their own.

No, the point is that there is a combination of genes that are on average beneficial to reproduction (i.e the higher fertility) but sometimes misfire. If it is on average a beneficial combination, then those genes will survive even if on occasion the resulting phenotype will be unable to propagate the genes. The successful phenotypes will more than compensate for it.

You are assuming that women with higher fertility are going to have an automatic advantage. I think this is a flawed assumption. Large numbers of dependant children will stretch the resources of a human mother, because human offspring require so much attention. This will result in a disadvantage to a "hyper fertility" gene (and is probably why multiple births such as triplets are rare compared to other mammals).

My point was that the homosexuality in siblings would offset the above disadvantage of this combination of genes, making them more likely to be passed on as a direct consequence of causing homosexuality.

In the above case the homosexual genes would be passed down throught the female line. If this proves to be the case it would support my theory.

229. The Fourth Flea!

Comment #26597 by Luthien on March 20, 2007 at 4:50 pm

Science and dimension project?

Guardian angel???

Yikes!

He lifted the stone and they all crawled out...

230. Your Mom Was Wrong: Horseplay Is An Important Part Of Development

Comment #26591 by Luthien on March 20, 2007 at 4:39 pm

Hey, I still like to play fight with people, but now only with people who are very close to me. I think it does help you form a bond, especially among siblings when they are children.

231. A Brief History of Disbelief

Comment #26532 by Luthien on March 20, 2007 at 6:30 am

I saw this when it first came out, and loved it. It put me on to Tom Paine's writings, particularly the "Age of Reason" pamphlet (full text freely available online if you google it). If you have not read it then it is a must.

232. Is Your Baby Gay? What If You Could Know? What If You Could Do Something About It?

Comment #26413 by Luthien on March 19, 2007 at 6:49 am

Lots of people are asking how homosexuality can be positively selected for if they have no offspring to carry their genes (hi eddie.river). I found the following article quite helpful:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6519-survival-of-genetic-homosexual-traits-explained.html

Essentially there is no "Gay Gene" for Denoir to remove, and the set of genes that are responsible for sexual attraction to men make women more sexually active, or more fertile, or for whatever combination of reasons cause them to have more children.

While having more children could stretch your resources, a gay uncle / brother or 2 would offset this disadvantage.

Denoir can remove these genes in all his children, but it may cause all his daughters to be lesbians. :-P

Bruno_burned:
How do the mother's genes benefit by starting off with sexually competitive male sons and then decreasing this trait in subsequent sons?

I have read that this is linked with the mother's immune system, which becomes more and more sensitised and hostile to the male hormones, affecting the foetus. If this is another cause, then Denoir has no hope of stopping the "gay gene" unless he intends to tinker with the mother too.

233. UK Christians 'suffer for faith'

Comment #26328 by Luthien on March 18, 2007 at 5:30 pm

Is this because they can't "gay bash" anymore, or is it because more people feel they can actually speak out against religious absurdity?

Conservative MP Ann Widdecombe, who is a Catholic, said Christians must decide whether to "fight back or take it".

What, no mention of "turn the other cheek"? ;-)

234. God's dupes

Comment #26161 by Luthien on March 17, 2007 at 9:57 am

The rest is self-deception, set to music.

I'm soooo gonna use that one all the time ;)

235. Kissing Hank's Ass

Comment #26159 by Luthien on March 17, 2007 at 9:39 am

wouldn't go that far. It has about nothing to say about Judaism, for example. "Karl" is obviously a stand-in for Jesus. It certainly makes the point that the form of Christianity believed by a large swath of Protestants is bunk, though.

LOL!

"Karl" is a stand in for anyone who writes a book, and then claims that it was dictated to him by a higher power. Fine examples include the writers of the old testament, the gospel writers of the new testament, that bloke wot wrote the Koran, the book of Mormon, the gospel of the flying spagetti monster; i.e. basically anyone who says or writes anything that they claim came from some sort of deity.

236. Is Your Baby Gay? What If You Could Know? What If You Could Do Something About It?

Comment #26150 by Luthien on March 17, 2007 at 8:42 am

These people are so sick I don't even know where to begin!

What is needed is therapy for people who are disturbed by same-sex attraction.

Precisely, there is something deeply wrong with someone who would even contemplate modifying their child like this.

I was reading an article in New Scientist about how someday they might be able to use gene therapy to change skin pigmentation as easily as we change hair colour today (so you could adjust yourself perfectly to your climate), can you imagine the outcry if a well known racist were to suggest that skin colour be "screened for" in the womb and "corrected"?

237. Did You Know? Shift Happens - Globalization, Information Age

Comment #25618 by Luthien on March 14, 2007 at 10:36 am

3. Comment #25542 by Newton30 on March 14, 2007 at 3:40 am

This video is based on wild extrapolations that historically have been discredited. Just look at what we thought the year 2000 was going to be like back in 1960. Intergalactic travel anyone?

Already, Moore's law is on its way out. If I check out my local computer store's stock, new, more powerful processors are much too expensive. The computational power of common PCs has not changed in the last 3 years or so, and prices for the same equipment have stagnated during that period. Even today's existing computers are already wildly overpowered for everyday applications. There is just no incentive to build more powerful computers (except maybe graphics cards for games).

Moor's law is not "on it's way out". If you read New Scientist you would know all about the latest developments in transistors that will allow it to continue for a long time to come (using a graphite like coating that is only one atom thick), not to mention quantum computing and photonics.

You seem unimpressed with Google world, I can remember looking at an atlas at school, now I can pick a spot on the globe and zoom right in to see what kind of area it is (like a hotel I might book for a holiday). In a few short years I have already gained so much knowledge and power at my fingertips. Long may it continue!

(And where the hell have you been buying computer parts??? If they still charge the same prices as 3 years ago they are ripping you off mate!)

238. When the ain'ts go marching in

Comment #25182 by Luthien on March 10, 2007 at 5:38 pm

I'm sure the other side is wondering, 'Hey, how come he's not eating children and setting kittens on fire?'

"Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him." 2 Kings 6:28-29

239. An apology to Peter Kay

Comment #25160 by Luthien on March 10, 2007 at 2:43 pm

PS. what means lol? The others I can work out, well, at least, most of them. I wouldn't mind an explanatory list if anyone has the patience to write it for my edification. :)

LOL = Laugh Out Loud
ROTFL = Rolling on the floor laughing
LMAO = laughing my ass off
OFC = of course
BTW = by the way
IMO / IMHO = in my opinion / in my humble opinion
WTF = what the f*ck?
BRB = be right back
1337 = ignore the person who uses this, he is probably only 14 and is destined never to have contact with anything other than his keyboard :P

That's all I can think of off hand :)

240. U.S. Mint goof creates 'Godless dollars'

Comment #24906 by Luthien on March 9, 2007 at 5:50 am

Whats the chance of an atheist working down at the mint and did a little tampering with the press....naaaaaa couldn't be.

If I worked there I would do it ;-)

241. You can't trust science!

Comment #24903 by Luthien on March 9, 2007 at 5:34 am

Hey MelM, I also found this beauty on that page:

Q: Follow-up to previous question: How is it that the Earth does not have a gravitational pull, but stars and the moon do?

A: This argument is a non sequitur. You might as well ask, "How is it that snakes do not have legs, but dogs and cats do?" Snakes are not dogs or cats. The Earth is not a star or the moon. It doesn't follow that each must have exactly the properties of the others, and no more.

242. Long live satire

Comment #24520 by Luthien on March 7, 2007 at 3:36 am

27. Comment #24508 by Myryama on March 7, 2007 at 1:22 am

For an enlightened view of Christianity and Islam, you could do worse than visit www.jesusandmo.net.

Ooh, I love that site!

If you like jesus and mo, you should also try http://russellsteapot.com

243. Ayaan Hirsi Ali Feature

Comment #24353 by Luthien on March 6, 2007 at 6:05 am

5. Comment #24275 by MelM on March 5, 2007 at 4:07 pm

The book "Infidel" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali is at #7 on the NYT best seller list and it's been on the list for 3 weeks.

Her journey from Islam to atheism is a wonderful theme running through a book which is readable by people who will never read Dawkins.

I ordered her book a while ago, but it was out of stock. Apparently they have posted it now, so I am hoping to get it any day now. I can't wait :)

244. Books on Atheism Are Raising Hackles in Unlikely Places

Comment #23839 by Luthien on March 3, 2007 at 6:36 am

"In a book of almost 400 pages, he can scarcely bring himself to concede that a single human benefit has flowed from religious faith, a view which is as a priori improbable as it is empirically false," Mr. Eagleton wrote. "The countless millions who have devoted their lives selflessly to the service of others in the name of Christ or Buddha or Allah are wiped from human history — and this by a self-appointed crusader against bigotry."

This reminds me of something the record companies do when they talk about the amount of money they lose through mp3 downloads. The assume that everyone who downloaded something for free would actually have gone out and bought it for £14 in the shops. In the above example, Mr Eagleton makes a similar unjustified assumption, namely that all the people doing "selfless acts" throughout the centuries would not have acted thus without the influence of a religion.

245. Research links some scriptures to hostile acts

Comment #23699 by Luthien on March 2, 2007 at 5:53 am

Taken by itself, a scriptural passage can wrongly rationalize negative behavior, he says.

Goodness, really??? You don't say!

Is their next study going to involve passages from the Koran and a flight simulator?

246. Falwell says Christians shouldn't focus on global warming

Comment #23696 by Luthien on March 2, 2007 at 5:45 am

...the Cardinal said "the Antichrist presents himself as pacifist, ecologist and ecumenist

Al Gore is the Antichrist?

247. The Dawkins Confusion: Naturalism ad absurdum

Comment #23693 by Luthien on March 2, 2007 at 5:37 am

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

*wipes tears from eyes*

So if he thinks God is very simple, and God (being God) is superior to him, then he must be exceedingly simple indeed!

248. If God is talking to you, too, Mr Cameron - don't listen

Comment #23498 by Luthien on March 1, 2007 at 5:41 am

14. Comment #23479 by AbstractMonkey on March 1, 2007 at 3:21 am

I posted something about this to the comments section of the times website, but it never appeared. My point was along the lines that Portillo contradicts himself in the article:

He says, "I recognise that teaching religious belief may be a good way, perhaps the best way, to impart a sense of right and wrong to children and it is fundamental to our society's survival that most people should distinguish good from bad."
...
** If someone out there reading this has contact with that plonker Portillo, give him a kick in the ass for making such a mistake. Better still, get Andrew O'Neil on This Week to grill him about it! **

I sent him an email ang got the following response:

"I expected to be attcked by the religious community for my article but actually most of the criticism has come from those who like you are alarmed that during the course of the article I "copped out" over teaching etc. I accept that I did that and thanks for taking me to task."

249. William Crawley meets Richard Dawkins

Comment #23358 by Luthien on February 28, 2007 at 5:44 am

8. Comment #23312 by Janus on February 27, 2007 at 6:52 pm

"I couldn't watch past the first minute. I'm sorry, but to say that labelling children is child abuse is such complete nonsense. What harm does mere _labelling_ do? "

Labelling children is child abuse.

I know, I'm from Northern Ireland!

Also, check out the Muslim Council's "advice" on how to "treat" so called Muslim children in state schools (both primary and secondary)...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6391271.stm?ls

"It calls for special considerations for Muslims in almost every aspect of school life: collective worship, PE, dance, swimming, exams, school meals, sex education and parents' evenings...

...Muslim children "should not be expected to participate in communal showering".

The compromise of allowing Muslim pupils to shower in bathing costumes is not acceptable either, says the guidance, because Islam also forbids being in the presence of nakedness.

Sports involving physical contact (basketball, for example) should happen only in single-gender groups.

Swimming is fraught with difficulties. Again schools are urged "to make every effort" to provide single-sex swimming lessons, as well as allowing Muslim girls to wear full leotards or leggings in the water.

During Ramadan, some pupils might wish to be excused swimming if they fear that swallowing water would break their fast.

There are many other areas in which Muslim pupils need special consideration:

they cannot take part in dance
school meals must include halal options
Islamic Studies should be offered to all Muslim pupils in RE at Key Stage 4 (GCSE level)
schools "should consider" offering Arabic to Muslim pupils.
The list is long: there are stipulations covering music, drama, art, school libraries, provision for prayers, school visits, and raffles."

Once a child is labeled, it seems they are practically the "property" of that religion, and is open to the above abuse. Once you are labeled they can say they are doing anything on your behalf. What sort of sick people put out "guidelines" to reinforce the SUPPRESSION of little girls, to the point that they can't dance, swim, or play football? How do you think the boys labeled "Muslim" will treat little girls in their class who do not cover themselves? How will they react to girls that insist on playing foorball with them???

250. James Cameron finds grave of Jesus & Son

Comment #23295 by Luthien on February 27, 2007 at 4:18 pm

Body of Christ?

... we could have communion wafers made from GM wheat containing genuine "Jesus genes"...


o.O