2501. A secular world is a sane world

Comment #200612 by Goldy on June 28, 2008 at 1:41 am

Steve

this is now the 7th or 8th time of asking.

9th, I think. Might have missed one or two, but the last time I saw this question, it was the 8th time, so this must be the 9th :-)
What a sad git I can be!

2502. Common New Atheist Fallacies

Comment #200609 by Goldy on June 28, 2008 at 1:39 am

TB, if ridiculing never convinces anyone of anything, why is it still used? Surely if it never convinced anyone, the whole concept would have died out. However... ;-)
Ridicule does work. Drink lots of beer, get a gut and then try turning up to work in a tight T-shirt (the sort one would have worn when a lot thinner...). Trust me I'll, errr, one will never wear such a shirt again!

2503. A secular world is a sane world

Comment #200605 by Goldy on June 28, 2008 at 1:30 am

In the Brave New World of Atheist facism one can only shudder at the thought of what being 'neutralised' means. After all we have tried that before in Europe.

Indeed we have, DR, indeed we have. For centuries people have been neutralised - and for what? Worshipping the wrong gods ring a bell? Sexuality (I'm pretty sure you don't like homosexuality)? Or how about your personal favourite - being a Catholic. You hate them, I take it. After all, you subscribe to this

CHAP. XXV. - Of the Church.

V. The purest churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error; and some have so degenerated, as to become no churches of Christ, but synagogues of Satan. Nevertheless, there shall be always a church on earth, to worship God according to his will.
VI. There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ, and all that is called God.

Synagogues of Satan. What an odd choice of word for describing a place of worship dedicated to Satan (there is only one god, right? So Satan isn't a god...but how can one tell - he appears as powerful as God!). Are Jews followers of Satan too?
What a vile religion you follow!

2504. I believe that there is no God.

Comment #200523 by Goldy on June 27, 2008 at 7:41 pm

Goldy,

And what's hers is yours ;-)

Aaaah, TB, you have much to learn! What's hers is, of course, hers!
I think there is a great deal of research into human social behaviour. Look up baboon society - I think that's being used as a model.

2505. I believe that there is no God.

Comment #200505 by Goldy on June 27, 2008 at 6:32 pm

TB, I know. I was talking of the actual concept of marriage. the passing on of genes and raising young is fairly separate. Lots of species don't kill the offspring and indeed look after all the young.
I still think marriage (as opposed to living "in sin" with children) is an ownership issue.
It is to me, anyway. My wife told me we were getting married and now everything I have is hers ;-)

2506. I believe that there is no God.

Comment #200489 by Goldy on June 27, 2008 at 6:05 pm

I think the institution of marriage may have evolved for this reason.

I dare say ownership (of the woman, invariably) is probably more important a factor in the evolution of marriage...

2507. I believe that there is no God.

Comment #200486 by Goldy on June 27, 2008 at 6:03 pm

The most frequent argument you'll find for opposition to gay marriage is a belief that it serves as a gateway, that undermines the traditional role of family, and blurs the line on sexuality. In fact the entire political argument against gay marriage is its effect on society and family.

Ok, you said about this...

And as I said, I myself am not opposed to gay marriage, but I understand the view of the other side well enough that I can articulate it.

Why, then, bring it up? So what if it does not conform to "traditional" values. Neither does polygamy - I don't see a witch hunt against them. How about Hindu weddings? Or, indeed, any other religious affirmation of living together?
You say you can understand the "other side" (which, given your views, is hard to know which side this is ;-)) - so can we. And we refute that. Heterosexual marriages can also ruin society. Forced marriages are a traditional norm, yet I find it hard to see how that is societally cohesive. Mistresses are very traditional (and many of those that wish to impose their utopian views on the rest of us are not short of them) and that really can destroy a social family unit.
Why didn't you bring them up? Why focus on homosexuality?
As an aside, some societies have no problems with homosexual or transgender issues.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fa'afafine
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/06/25/world/20080625VIRGINS_index.html
I think, if you dig into history, you will find this anti-homosexual views relatively recent...and in many cases the origin lies in the God you are apparently wavering over...

2508. I believe that there is no God.

Comment #200443 by Goldy on June 27, 2008 at 4:31 pm

TheIdiot, just been reading your answer to Steve (the "gays and women don't deserve equal right becasue people shag too much" comment) and I think you don't understand atheism. You claim you are half atheist is incorrect. You believe, maybe can't fit the Bible to reality but you are trying.
Atheists don't all go to science. Most just use common sense and a well developed sense of reality to cope :-)

2509. Stop distorting young minds!

Comment #200202 by Goldy on June 27, 2008 at 4:28 am

I'd suggest that faith schools tend to do better in the UK because they managed to minimise the interference from local government....

That's the trouble. Education is always at the whim of someone or some committee with an agenda. There is no way, as far as I can tell, when education is just, well, education. I don't want religion in it, nor do I want politics. I want education, the teaching of what is useful to living. I don't want people telling my children that God is the way, that the Bible is true and inerrant, but neither do I want my kids to learn that everything that is their culture is wrong.
OK, not making much sense...someone will polish my sentiments.

2510. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #200197 by Goldy on June 27, 2008 at 4:20 am

What is diffrence between piranhas and atheists?

Same diffErence as atheists and cattle, I guess.

Any common more common points;

???

Sometimes piranhas can attack on each other as well.

Something the religious are very, very, very well known to do :-) (I corrected your spelling...)

2511. Creationist critics get their comeuppance

Comment #200194 by Goldy on June 27, 2008 at 4:13 am

Conservapedia - I have taken the liberty to distribute among the friends of mine. Aaaaah, the laughter rings around the the uni now!

2512. Stop distorting young minds!

Comment #200186 by Goldy on June 27, 2008 at 3:19 am

Vaal, sorry, still laughing. Can't write anymore...

2513. Stop distorting young minds!

Comment #200182 by Goldy on June 27, 2008 at 3:11 am

Scottish idiot religious dude

Indeed - which is why we should be allowed to have Christian education because we do not believe that children should be indoctrinated.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

2514. Creationist critics get their comeuppance

Comment #200003 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 3:35 pm

Just hearing that Jesus was supposedly concieved by a holy spirit and his mother was a virgin was enough to stop me from being interested in hearing more.

It was never, luckily for me, something I had to worry about - atheist father and pretty non religious mother. Religion in either side was never an important aspect of life, merely a cultural thingy. And when I really had to hear, it made me interested....in the background. Sent off into mythology, into the Egyptian religion of the time and other Mediterranean mythology. The archeology of mythology can keep me occupied for days! :-)
Mark Smith

They see the world through this lens. Everything is interpreted to fit.

Hence my raised eyebrows at some of the things I heard and the interesting arguments about other religious books with them...if they ever had the misfortune of being alone with me :-) Oddly enough, I can recall them not really being too keen to go anywhere with me by car...and religion was actively avoided! :-D
As for the screwballs, they are the dangerous ones - they are the ones that need their own party in politics and, if my reading of Israeli politics is right (it's sort of like NZ politics), the mainstream need them to form a coalition to get enough seats and then the screwballs have the rest of the population by the short and curlies. It may be a fairer democratic system in terms of letting everyone have a voice but one soon tires of having to listen to the whims of the strange!
Noah - flood myth. Excellent story. Felt sorry for the species that he killed off when sacrificing one of the animals to say thanks to God. Methinks that's where the unicorn went ;-) But lots of flood mythology out there. Get Oppenheimer's Eden in the East - he has a rather interesting explanation.

2515. Creationist critics get their comeuppance

Comment #199964 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:49 pm

TB, I've worked with a Christadelphian and a Biblical literalist in scientific fields - one was achemist and the other a pharmacologist. Both are PhDs. Both have all the evidence there in front of their eyes, both can see what cannot be true (even to a religious person) but must be mythology, both believe the Bible is the word of God and inerrant. I really don't know how they mashed reality and mythology together. If I may rephrase your last sentence... "They aren't too interested in the rest of the world."

2516. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199961 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:41 pm

More on misyar
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=93592&d=13&m=3&y=2007
Funny as hell :-)

2517. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199958 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:38 pm

I have never heard of any such night in Saudi Arabia. Perhaps you are thinking of the Shi'a practice of Mutt'a (temporary marriage).

Small article for the Saudi playground :-)
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=9§ion=0&article=100687&d=2&m=9&y=2007
Check out the rest of the paper, there's heaps more :-)

2518. Creationist critics get their comeuppance

Comment #199948 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:28 pm

I doubt there's anything you could throw at a well versed Rabbi

The best versed Rabbi only has mythology to back up his arguments. They are easily swatted aside. The hard part is for the well versed Rabbi to think rationally - and all the most religious cannot - or they would not be so religious.
Arguing with them is pointless. Just make more places of worship - it keeps them happy and off the streets.

2519. God hates Mars

Comment #199578 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 3:03 am

Opal fruits..... is that a gay australian?

"Opal Fruits, made to make your mouth water!"
You decide ;-)

2520. An Interview with Prof. Richard Dawkins

Comment #199572 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:32 am

Did not see this when I happily chanced upon this site over 2 years ago----why so often and usual recently?

Well, you know, banks and other lending establishments realised that giving money to people who really couldn't pay back was kinda stupid, so mortgages went up, which had a knock on effect when speculators decided that maybe banking money (hahahahah) on broke people was a bad idea so decided to turn to oil insted, raising the price to way above what it really is worth, leading to people thinking making food into fuel was a great idea and driving the price of necessities up, bringing with it the price of other food, like dairy....ah, fuck it, you get the picture.
Lighten up. There is an amazing amount of drivel - I know, I contribute to it. But sometimes it's hard. Look at txtpiper on one of the threads - no arguing with him. We face, here, militantly ignorant people. Seriously militant in maintaining their stupidity (and I can say that as they just don't read) that drives some of us to despair. Steve Zara left for a spell, others of the frequent contributers have not been as vocal as they used to be, one has even become a Christian (again...for how long, we wonder).
Just go with the flow. I try, when I can, to give reasoned arguments...but sometimes I feel like Sisyphus and I am sure others do to.
Please don't be pissy with your condemnation - try and let us know in a light hearted fashion and we'll love all the more for it.
Accept my apologies for apparently making your Dicky D experience a bit off.
Mike

2521. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #199569 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:16 am

Please can you wish them a fun and tea fuelled life together from me!

Allow me to add the spirit of choice for said tea :-)
Apologies, Philip! :-D
Right, best get me back to painting!

2522. Fossil of most primitive 4-legged creature found

Comment #199568 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:14 am

Mord1 - I feel for you. If it is any consolation. Probably not, but in New Zealand, there is one person that really really feels for you. Seriously.

2523. Fossil of most primitive 4-legged creature found

Comment #199566 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:12 am

Phil

and still broke the crank in 3 places.

Could you fix it?

8teist

Hahahahaa

No it was fucked

This was so funny I think I snotted gin through me nose!
Marcus

Why is it particularly surprising that it seems "out of sequence" in terms of how advanced it is?

I was wondering that too. Given the comments about whether it was pentadactyl or not.... Ah, well, maybe a hook for the cretinists...

2524. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #199562 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:05 am

Although the roles are heroic and flashy, and musically a tour de force, if you are not into the genre, they will seem very very sissy.

Well, I'm sure they'll be fine and dandy :-)
(better add this, just in case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandy)

2525. God hates Mars

Comment #199560 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:01 am

By reading the comments, I can see when the IDiot said

Mars is a desert planet and...

he actually meant

Mars is a dessert planet and...

2526. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #199527 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 10:40 pm

The real reason for polygamy
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/men-like-casual-sex-more-than-women-ndash-scientific-fact-854323.html
Not sure how that explains the dislike of same sex marriage by polygamous men...one would have thought they'd positively encourage it!

2527. An Interview with Prof. Richard Dawkins

Comment #199526 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 10:31 pm

"if you want to chop down a tree it takes a bunch of small, precise knicks, not one fell swing"

Could do but when they cleared the bush where my house is built they used a bulldozer.
Don't mind me, only throwing oil on the fire ;-)

2528. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #199521 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 10:06 pm

That Garth has his head so far up his arse he's staring out of his mouth (I know, biologically impossible..)
He never pauses to think what religion might be doing - hell, it seems that some of those murderers who killed that Sikh liquor store owner were actually church going Christians. I know they were taught religion. He thinks religious extremism is the saviour of society without even pausing to think that maybe the malaise is not going to be sorted by the church (who fancy the souls they can save) but by working out what is wrong with some people. God isn't going to help anyone - people are, and they aren['t going to get anywhere using God to help them help others.
A fuckwit. He always was, by the sound of it. I'm swapping to the Dominion Post now...

2529. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #199518 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 9:59 pm

Used the search function in Arab News ("Man marries" in the search box). Some cracking ones there!

2530. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #199516 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 9:55 pm

KEYSAR TRAD: I certainly would not have entertained the thought of having a relationship without a religious marriage. Rather than entertain any thoughts of an affair, I thought the only decent thing to do was consider a proper commitment to that person.

ALISON CALDWELL: Hanefa Trad was asked if it was just about men wanting sex with more women.

HANEFA TRAD: Yes, it can be. But having it in the right way but doesn't happen it in like go to prostitute or just date and just go for a woman for one night and leave her.

Now this is champion! Can't make them sound more....stupid if I tried!

2531. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #199513 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 9:48 pm

Senior leaders of the Islamic Community in Sydney are calling on the Australian Government to recognise polygamous marriage in order to protect the rights of women

Stunned ????????????????????????? from me!
EDIT
OK, allow polygamy. But also allow polyandry - and if the wife of a Muslim wants another man, he has to take it and love it :-) Or, indeed, if the wife wants another wife for herself :-D
I do love Muslim clerics - they just don't get this democracy stuff, eh? Demand, demand, demand without any thought for the consequences. We should encourage them more - they could back themselves into a corner and really fuck themselves :-). I have to laugh - all this pandering to them...and they just can't see the backlash coming their way!

2532. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #199511 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 9:40 pm

8teist - you mean this?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/466/story.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10518356
He annoys me. So does that Tipa Masu. And Chris Rattue. Whole damn paper annoys me :-)

2533. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #199504 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 9:23 pm

He can start with the resurrection - and he mustn't use this thread as an example ;-)

2534. God hates Mars

Comment #199457 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 7:37 pm

So what happened to marathon bars? I've never had one.

See? Just as the Abrahamic religion has subsumed all the old European religions and left us with some half forgotten snippets of the old days, the Snickerites assume the Marathon bar has always been called Snickers.
You have had a Marathon Bar TB - for some reason, unknown to us Brits, Johhny Foreigner could not pronounce "Marathon" so we had to change over to Snickers. I have never allowed my mind to forget the True Name!

2535. God hates Mars

Comment #199440 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 7:06 pm

Snickers? Pah! Marathon bars they were and Marathon bars they shall remain!
Deep fried Mars Bars, invented, apparently, in Stonehaven. Actually, the chippy there would deep fry anything - pies, pizza, you name it.
"Snickers"....aaah, how the young are easily misled! How whitewash is applied to history!

2536. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199402 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 5:37 pm

Fanusi - maybe it's already too late...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2192715/Blonde,-white-schoolboy-is-al-Qaandrsquoeda-extremist,-say-police.html

2537. Where do US lawmakers stand on science?

Comment #199397 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 5:23 pm

My old was an engineer (petroleum) and an atheist. I work in the the medical school of Auckland Uni - about half of the scientists are very religious (one PhD was actually a Bible literalist...).
Maybe in my case, acs, it's something to do with being in the southern hemisphere...you know, like the Coriolis effect or something ;-)

2538. The Flea Delusion

Comment #199394 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 5:13 pm

Regarding RM - I still feel for him. After all, he cannot be of sound mind if he needs, as opposed to just wants, a religion to help him through. People like that need help and I am willing to give my time (within reason) to help. Only thing that troubles them is the need for a god.
"We can love Him, because He first loved us."
A cry for help. Read it - can't you see how pathetic it sounds? (Of course, hard to love something that doesn't think twice about wiping us all out by flooding...and send us to hell if we don't love it "Love me or else!" - but that's my personal opinion). He needs a love. Here's a hint (read his blog entry)

So there I was.

Alone again.

2539. Science is not philosophy

Comment #199353 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 2:56 pm

Goldy, stop touting your course. If you haven't got enough students, then maybe, just maybe it's because your course is intellenciontalylly challenged. :D

Ain't true! It's the funding, innit! All going to forensic science cos that's on telly and it's farking ace!

2540. Science is not philosophy

Comment #199345 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 2:46 pm

And the way the guru's are fawned on by some people is somewhat sickening too.

Hmm, gurus eh? I keep telling the students I work with I am a guru. Not sure if I qualify here.
May I ask a personal question - are you a student? Young? (OK, that's 2 questions...)

2541. Science is not philosophy

Comment #199340 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 2:41 pm

"philosophy" = "just finkin', innit?"

Nah, mate. Jus' sam farking old git finkin intellectionally and sayin it wiv farked up words.

2542. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199337 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 2:36 pm

On marriage - I got married becasue my wife told me to. Chinese don't see unmarried couples in the same light as we westerners do. Turned out to be quite good, mind - if we hadn't married, my children would not have got a British passport.
Parenting - so many different forms of parenting, not that many (relatively speaking) fucked up children. Stop being swayed by the media. And gay couples can bring up children - it won't fuck them up. After all, all gays I know are a product of the traditional family...
Moslem/Muslim - Moslem to my ears (and eyes) appears old fashioned. But I don't think it matters. Check out how many different ways Gadafi is spelled (and my way is yet another :-))
HitbLade - if you must, but within the next week - wife comes back then. And did we have a wee accident with out name? A bit late on the capitalisation, methinks.
bnow, back to hating Mu(o)slims...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7469180.stm

"I am so sick and tired of hearing nationalists talk of killing Muslims, of blowing up mosques, of fighting back, only to see these acts of resistance fail to appear."

I'm waiting for this line to appear in these threads one day ;-) (joke - but with a serious undercurrent. Sometimes I feel this sentiment is heartfelt in some of the comments I read)

2543. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198978 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 11:49 pm

Goldy, I must agree with you in regards to #234

I'm sorry for bringing it up - just a small peeve of mine and irrelevant here except to try and make a point. Maybe the rugby had something to do with it to... ;-) Can never read the Herald's sport pages for about a month after any game against England!

2544. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198977 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 11:44 pm

It was obviously a completely different mindset back then

Indeed it was. I think the same probably carried on in Europe at the same time.
However, what happened then has no bearing on what happens now. These people that say Mo has an absolute hold on morality and use his example on how to live today are screwed in the head - I am pretty sure Mo would not have done now what he did then.
I am reminded of a story in the NYT about falafel sellers in Baghdad being targetted - apparently falafel was not around in Mo's time so was un-Islamic. One falafel seller did try and point out that AK47s were not around during Mo's time either, but that didn't seem relevant to the militias...

2545. Science is not philosophy

Comment #198976 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 11:35 pm

I can't imagine what a Ph.D. in business has to do with "philosophy" except in the very broad sense that tera explained.

Tried to explain in Comment #198953. Makes sense to me...but then, I wrote it, so it would :-D

2546. Science is not philosophy

Comment #198953 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 9:10 pm

I got the same, so I looked it up. That's how I heard of Natural Philosophy. And then someone told me that one had to research something no one else has done - going out into uncharted waters as it were. One has a hypothesis - an argument, if you will - which one has to defend. To defend, you need data and information, which is why one does the research. But in the end, it is your hypothesis which is the subject of your PhD - you are defending your philosophical "musings" on a particular subject, with evidence to back up your arguments from your research.

2547. Science is not philosophy

Comment #198949 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 8:39 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_philosophy
Reagerding science and philosophy - all in the definition :-) By the way, ever wonder what the Ph part of a PhD stood for? Or the Phil part of MPhil (I have one of those...in biological sciences)?
Mordacious1, I feel for you. Bad enough having teeth pulled, even worse when having your child have to go through that pain. It is hard enough to comfort a toddler - having an autistic child as you describe must be very very hard.

Edit - ID is not a science, nor a philosophy. It is a religion.

2548. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198947 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 8:28 pm

People who get massive payments can't be living in poverty. Poverty implies having no money.

Depends which people get the money. A holocaust survivor is not necessarily the receiver of funds if said funds get handed to a government authority for distribution. I have found that governments have a habit of sometimes diverting money from the recipients it was paid for to other projects...

2549. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198945 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 8:25 pm

http://www.codoh.com/zionweb/zizad/zizad26.html

As a precaution, Stern sent Naftali Lubentschik to Beirut, which was still controlled by Vichy, negotiate directly with the Axis. Nothing is known of his dealings with either Vichy or the Italians, but in January 1941 Lubentschik met two Germans --Rudolf Rosen and Otto von Hentig, the philo-Zionist, who was then head of the Oriental Department of the German Foreign Office. After the war a copy of the Stern proposal for an alliance between his movement and the Third Reich was discovered in the files of the German Embassy in Turkey.

There's more - I'll let you read it. Of course, it is just something from the old interweb - no idea how the truth has been twisted to fit any political agenda...

Edit - one doesn't even have to look hard to find Jewish Wehrmacht soldiers...
http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/020705/army.shtml

2550. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198944 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 8:20 pm

Contrast that with what the British colonizers did to the indigenous cultures in Australia and New Zealand in the 19th century -- kidnapping Aboriginal children to be brought up white, beating Maori school pupils for speaking their own home language. That's what I would understand by the term "cultural imperialism".

While I don't deny the occurences stated here, I do want to ask...how many generations have to pass before the crappy things get attributed to the colonial masters and the good stuff to the now separate colonists.
I say this because I am always told it was the British that did all the cultural genocides etc but it's never the British when talking about stuff like the Anzacs at gallipoli (oh, except when it comes to bad leadership - obviously Australia, NZ, SA etc never had anyone in a leadership capacity).
I do believe some of the excesses of cultural "assimilation" occured in the 20th century...by white Australians and white New Zealanders.
Sorry, just a bit of a peeve of mine as a Pom in Aotearoa.