2601. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196909 by Goldy on June 20, 2008 at 3:20 pm

T'was the "Jeez" immediately preceding that did it for me. Sorry, I work with students just out of their teens - "jeez" is always accompanied by eye rolling and assertions of my old fashionedness and unhipfulness! ;-)

2602. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196904 by Goldy on June 20, 2008 at 3:11 pm

If it seems I was being"arrogant" or "superior" my apologies that was not my intention. After such a long exchange which I have not been part of.
Im am stunned that it came across as such.

In that case I shall get off my very very high horse and apologise unreservedly...*hops off*....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH! *THUD!*
I'm sorry....call a doctor, I think I broke my legs on landing!
;-)

2603. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196869 by Goldy on June 20, 2008 at 2:16 pm

Jeez, Another little gem. Its amazing what you find when stumbling around this site.

Ummm, OK - we have someone telling us the Earth is younger than the domestication of farm animals, that there was a world wide flood caused by some ice shield surrounding the Earth melting, that evolution is a hoax and that everything on Earth is, was and evermore shall be as they are (until extinction, I guess), that there was an ark where all (make that ALL) the animals on the planet lived....need I go on? And yet, this is what you pick up on. This little snippet, this personal opinion (from someone who is condemned by many for his sexuality, a state that had absolutely no active input from himself, that was in no way a lifestyle choice of his own choosing) - you can overlook the jaw droppingly inane and incredible assertions, assertions without a scrap of evidence other than the Bible (other holy texts being, it seems, wrong) and just point to this one paragraph and chuckle in an arrogantly superior way.
As you say...

Its amazing what you find when stumbling around this site.

2604. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196393 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 9:11 pm

As for all this dieting talk: stop making me feel guilty. Bikini season is fast approaching and I dread it.

Don't wear bikinis. Go topless, then no one notices...

Goldy, I am thinking of brewing my own beer this summer. I know it is not good for the gut (the shape of it anyway).
Chili-chocolate? I like both those things.
Recipes

I haven't gone beyond beer kits. But I thought a malty dark beer would suit the chocolate flavour and chillies and chocolate do go together particularly well. Don't use strong chillies - habaneroes would just kill it - go for a reasonably sweet and tangy chilli. Chocolate...I used Dutch cocoa powder. Just dropped it all in. I chopped up the chillies and boiled them in water, then added the cocoa then the malt and stirred. Boil the chillies for a while before adding the other stuff.
Then just follow the instructions on the kit :-)
I have no idea how it will trun out - will be adding finings and then transferring to another container (the keep the dross out and to mix in the carbonation sugar) before bottling.
The wheat beer and manuka honey mix worked quite well. Didn't fine it, so it is a bit cloudy, but tasty. 6 months or so wait should see it good. Maybe I should have finished brewing with champagne yeast...hmmm....

2605. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196390 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 8:58 pm

Too much protectionism is only going to result in more insults :-) Besides, did the US listen to any UN resolution? Israel (and given most of the resolutions againt Israel are from, errrr, Muslim countries)? Does anyone think China will give a toss, or India?

2606. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196338 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 5:38 pm

Overcast, 24 minutes of rain. Just don't ask me where

Auckland, NZ. Previous day will be fine with some showers. Rain will fall when I am not under cover.
Weight loss is something I think about. They say it is 50% mental, after all. Appears "they" were not 100% truthful. Never mind, Galbraiths soon (google it).
Talking of beer, homebrewed chilli/chocolate dark beer soon to be bottled. Wonder how that will turn out...

2607. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196318 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 4:25 pm

Steve
Comment #196308
But if our evolution selected for abstract thought and we designed AI to be as us, then I guess we can transcend biology. But if AI follows biological priciples in its evolution...
hmmm....

2608. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196316 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 4:22 pm

Humans are a little crazy. All of 'em

Small hand raised in the middle back row..."Errr, I'm not!"
:-D

2609. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196315 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 4:20 pm

I'm sorry Goldy - thinking is not biological at its base level... or do you think artificial intelligence is a priori impossible?

T'other Mike, thinking is not biological - but the process by which we think is :-) AI thinking is the same endpoint by another, non-biological, process. Is thinking different because it is carbon based rather than silicon based? No. But the process is.
Need more panadol, me.

2610. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196295 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 3:48 pm

As such, such things as the theorem and the thought-experiment (things we construct) transcend biology.

True - as we define things. But the process that brought us to the stage where we can think these things is a biological process.
I'm not sure I am thinking straight today - headache. And feel like crap. Sorry.

2611. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196294 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 3:46 pm

I think this is a fallacy... thoughts and deliberations, investigations, art, mathematics - these are not biological

Becasue you are separating the definitions into discrete entities.
The process of thinking is a biological action. It involves mathematics and physics and chemistry, etc.
Art, mathematics, etc, are different definitions to us, but the reason we have them is bacause of our biology. Natural selection has developed H. sapiens into an abstract thinking machine. H. sapiens didn't actively follow the path to this stage - H. sapiens just went with the flow.
Yes, all your fields are not, by definition, biology, but the biological process that enables us to use these other fields got us to that stage :-)

2612. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196293 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 3:41 pm

Steve, Comment #196290, yes. What I meant was the selection will always occur whether we input or not (actiive or passive, that is still selection). We can say we transcend biology only by our definition of biology (as a word with defined meaning) - we think we are transcending it becasue we have a set definition of the term which we think we are transcending.
Confusing...I know what I am thinking but can't articulate it. Bugger - frustrating!!!

2613. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196291 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 3:38 pm

What I meant is that our thinking about it means it affects us differently as we interact with our environment with "evolution" in mind. We make choices that determine our evolution, and we do so knowing evolution is a mechanism of change.

I'm not sure. We might know going out with the smart chick will result in smart children but damn the dim lass with the big tits is worth a shot, even though we know that the offspring of that union will never get a degree :-)
Facetious analogy, sorry. but though we are aware, in general we don't think about it as we follow our gut feelings. Homosexuals know that they are not contributing to humanity's evolution but that does not affect their thinking - as it shouldn't. The individual tends to look after the individual.
Nature does the rest without our active input.
Golly, almost sound like a Buddhist here, eh?

2614. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196288 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Don't you think there are dimensions to human social life, intellectual pursuits etc that do not fall under the domain of evolution or biology in general?

I don't think so - the brain has evolved to think in abstract. If abstract becomes more important, that feeds back into the evolution of the brain, would it not. Certainly the selection for successful abstract thought is as great as it is for, say, strength (singers, poets, philosophers etc are not disadvantaged in the reproduction stakes compared to builders and blue collar workers, are they? In fact, given the money earned by some, the selection process is in their advantage).
I feel we can say we transcend biology only when we do the defining. But in reality, it is all a natural process called selection which is evolution which we, as humans, have filed under biology.

2615. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196285 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 3:25 pm

Who are "we" in the transcend question?

I'm reading that as H. sapiens - the stress being on "sapiens" :-)

2616. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196267 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 2:51 pm

When it's just about transcending evolutionary imperatives - we certainly can (for example wipe us all out through war or live in complete celibacy, or use contraceptives etc).

I'm with Steve here. Our "transcending" is actually part of evolution :-) We are using something which evolved to think and thus our thinking evolved, which led to the evolution of the thinking organ, etc...
We are going to try and make sure our offspring is smarter than the others, so there will be selection pressures on intelligence (as defined by us). Obviously looks too, but smart OK person will probably cut the grade better than good lucking thicko (generally speaking).
Mind you, we don't know what the future holds - maybe some Toba is waking up, ready to cause a great natural catastrophe which will alter teh environment. Maybe the pressure for survival will change the direction evolution dictates for our survival as a species...

Edit - all the above is pure speculation on my part!

2617. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #196261 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 2:34 pm

Teratornis

Comment #195874 by Goldy:

He'll probably say something banal, like, use less oil.

Credit where it is due - Irate said that. I was quoting him.
Yes, the emoticon did show my jocularity :-) I have sent you a few pieces from some news sites that contradict the running out scenario (your peak oil) but that is just to needle you in a nice way. I know we have to change our lifestyle to take into account that the era of cheap oil is over. Having a couple of countries with a combined population of a couple of billion peopple, all wanting our lifestyle, is bound to make the prices go up and the reserves down.
The biomass thing is a red herring - I don't think we can, given the population that needs feeding, ethically do this. After dumping produce in countries at our subsidised prices, we have broken the farming cultures in other countries, I feel. China is turning over arable land for factories so food is coming in from somewhere and I don't think it is from Africa. And as you say, demand is too high for this red herring to be anything but.
There was an article in the NZ Herald about producing oil by basically fermentation. I'll dig it up. But again, it is a red herring. We need a different lifestyle. While I hope personal travel is not sent back to the way it was at teh dawn of the 20th century, I feel we are going to have a slowdown. Certainly those package holidays to Corfu etc are going to have to stop...at least for now. Should be good news for Brighton, Blackpool, Morecambe and Skegness
:-D

Edit - can't find the article I read, but this has the same story...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece
I particularly liked this title when Googling...GMO bacteria eat waste, shit crude oil - The Something Awful Forums :-)

2618. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195874 by Goldy on June 19, 2008 at 12:20 am

He'll probably say something banal, like, use less oil.

But txtpiper said...

Yeah, just tell them that you were mistaken and that enterprising engineers have figured out how to turn organic material into syn-crude in just hours:

"Thermo-depolymerization mimics the Earth's own recipe for fossil fuels, but shaves millions of years off the production time. Waste, turkey guts, for instance, is mixed with water and ground into a thick slurry, which is then heated to 500 degrees Fahrenheit (260 degrees Celsius), pressurized at roughly 600 pounds per square inch (42 kilograms per square centimeter), and cooked for about 15 to 60 minutes until the organic material's molecular structure, its polymers, begin to break apart.

Pressure on the mixture is then dropped, releasing steam that is recaptured to power the remaining process. More heat, then distillation, creates the byproducts, natural gas, which is diverted back to fuel the bio-reformer, crude oil, which can be sold to refineries, minerals, to be used in materials like fertilizers, and water."
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/1125_031125_turkeyoil.html

This works on any kind of garbage.

Don't beat yourself up over it, but you could apologize to your students on behalf of the scientific community for the occasions when their religious convictions delay research and development.

We don't need to use less ;-)

2619. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195866 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 11:57 pm

The one area in which Church scores highly is in its community life. I don't miss the intellectual gymnastics, but I do miss many of the people. My Christian friends were amongst the kindest people I've ever had the privilage of spending time with. I'd be a liar to say otherwise.

Sound like my group of friends - all atheists. Or my Chinese family...errr, all atheists too :-) Though rather superstitious ;-)
Edit - unlike church groups, we won't put any pressure on you. But if you order a Heineken....
If ever you are in New Zealand, I'll see that we outdo your church group. This is totally unconditional - some of us believe, pretty much most don't (actually, the one believer - Catholic Chinese lass...not sure she was 100% in her belief but she liked mass). One thing - you gotta like beer....

Edit - pub we go to brews its own beer. We will not pressure you any, but if you order a Heineken...

2620. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195788 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 7:42 pm

House group leader, Alpha course helper, Church drama team leader.

What on earth are these? Most interesting ;-)
Protestant, I take it. Can't see Egyptian Coptic Church memebers doing theis - though they do ahve a church not far from me here in NZ. Have to say, most of the Arabic looking blokes in my neighbourhood are actually Christian :-)

2621. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195776 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 7:20 pm

Asfalios, best ask the prof himself. Why ask us? We cannot answer without colouring our answers with our views and it is rather presuptuous for one to answer for another.
If he said it, I personally think he is wrong. I personally think he used a bad choice of words.

2622. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195772 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 7:16 pm

DR, are you editing your entries without letting people know? This smacks of deception.

My profound apologies, I missed a bit. I had, in my mind, contracted you post and one part got to another. I apologise unreservedly.
However, if only God can convert, then why is it the perogative of RD.net and its convert's corner?
Another little point - saves me buying your book

The God of the Bible. Jesus Christ. Because he is the truth.

Islam is wrong? Jesus was only a prophet - God cannot be human and therefore Jesus cannot be any part of God, much less the truth. The Quran is the last word of God, revealed to Muhammed. So, technically, the Quran is the truth. And the Jews are still waiting...

2623. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195767 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 7:08 pm

I will explain my logical reasoning which leads me to conclude life had a designer. Like I said before, my reasoning and logic tells me that if I see something that looks designed I can make a inference that it is. I do not have to witness or see the designer. In my logic and reasoning a design takes a designer.

We choose to disagree, but I observe design in many places; in the complexity of life, the fine tuning of our solor system, in addition to many others. These observances are support for a logical reason that there was a designer of life.

I don't know much more to say. May be this is not logical reasoning to you or we may have a different definition of what constitutes logic and reason.

To infer a designer is much more logical in my mind then any other inference. Most of society agrees. It can't be proven otherwise.

Sorry, I keep reading this and all I see is that you infer. This is you personally - the inference for evolution has research data backing our inference. Google it - there are many, from fossils to similarity between species to information encoded in DNA. It's not a case of a scientist looking and thinking "Aaah, it looks that way so I'll write a paper".
Not that I think you are stupid really but I do think you just don't know or, more likely, you are taking the piss. But a better argument would have been more meaningful. Everything you gave is a personal view - you have nothing to back up your own opinion. The complexity of life? Heck, why not mention snowflakes? They are massively complex and yet can se shown to take their shape merely by the interaction of water molecules between themselves. You assume life is complex, but it is easily broken down into constituent forms and the larger species (which merely comprise of the crust on the icing that is life on Earth) are so related that they may, if one really wants to, be lumped into super groups (also remember that the groupings we have are all man-made constructs - thank http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/linnaeus.html for it all). Life is not so complex as you'd like to think.
Youor final sentence is the nub of the matter - you don't know so you'll stick with what you were told, no matter if you were told wrong. In the past, you would have believed the Earth was flat or that the sun revolved around the Earth (you don't, do you? Please say you don't!) and you would have dogmatically stuck to what you were told then as you do now. As it is, most of society does not believe (well, maybe in the US...) - even the main churches do not believe that evolution is wrong, theough they will attempt to point a finger at their own particular god as a start of life. But then, we are not discussing ambiogenesis but the appearance of a designer.
It is hard ot take you very seriously - you have previously flipped between a literalist to denying teh very thing the Bible states. Your assertion that spontaneous life cannot be real denies Genesis, and by inference, God, who is the Designer. If spontaneous life cannot be, how can a designer? He, after all, designed it. He made it and made it, I assume, spontaneously. If not, if he had to make it piece by piece, then this detracts the godliness from him and I know you don't want that. If he had to learn, one assumes he could not be eternal and all knowing - his mind evolves and, by my thinking, this infers he evolves which suggests he is not the only or the first.
We do not have a different interpretation of the words, or meaning, logic and reason. We do, however, have a different level of application. It would behove you to try and meet us on our ground if you wish to avoid ridicule. Or finally come out and admit you are taking the piss :-)

2624. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195753 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 6:42 pm

what kind of Christian were you before you converted?

One does wander at his riposte to an answer. "Aha, you're God is not my God!"
Oystein, tell him you were a Catholic ;-)

2625. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195750 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 6:37 pm

Before I leave, do any of you have any prayer requests? My group is praying for your repentance and salvation.

Save on the repentance (can't repent - not pented yet...) and salvation and ask for some books. And the ability to infer properly and maybe debate logically.
What a cop out. You are an atheist, eh? C'mon, admit it!

2626. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195693 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 5:18 pm

By the way - I have no converts. That is the perogative of RD net and its 'converts corner'.

Is it me, or has this entry been edited to read something completely different? I do recall it saying that converts were the perogative of God, only he could convert.
DR, are you editing your entries without letting people know? This smacks of deception.

2627. Gay brains structured like those of the opposite sex

Comment #195689 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 5:14 pm

Check out conservapedia's homosexual entry
http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexuality

2628. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195687 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 5:11 pm

Do any of you talk to Dawkins. I heard through some very reliable sources that he is starting to question himself and might even be contemplating making a public statement in regards to his uncertainty of Macroevolution.

Any sources on your side?

RD can probably best answer this himself but it is another topic. The highly evident logic behind there being a designer, please.

2629. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195674 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 4:57 pm

It seems apparent that this discussion is way over your head. You are so narrow minded that you have lost all logic and reason.

At this point, my theory is, you are either playing with me or really that stupid. There is no other theory.

Is this your logical answer for the designer? This? Basically boils down to "You wouldn't understand anyway. If you don't know, you are stupid."
Well, your mates must be really proud of you. Man, you defended your position well, didn't you. The power of your argument will be talked about for years to come... ;-)
Seriously, give us a logical argument for the designer. If he is so blindingly self evident, it should be easy! We may then give you some criticisms of what you said which you will have answers to. After all, this is how science works too and apparently it is all powerful, etc, etc. Just answer Brian's question.

2630. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195671 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 4:52 pm

I think you meant "grammar".

Also missing a question mark at the end.

2631. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195666 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 4:49 pm

Is this your logic behind the designer, RtG? I dunno, I can see one or two flaws in it...

2632. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195658 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 4:40 pm

Yes, you will claim this is not scientific, but you have no scientific theory of the origins of life. The origins of life, a designer, is the only logical reasonable answer.

OK, so provide the logic behind it. We are all waiting.

2633. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195650 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 4:29 pm

I must tell you, they are dumbfounded of the idiotic banter between you guys. That you actually believe each others deception.

There's more of you? How frightening!
Anyway, the designer - let's hear your side. Get your friends to give you a hand, if you want. Answer Brian's persistent question. Then you can tell me if animals have free will...

2634. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195645 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 4:25 pm

Goldy - can you not see that your own statement is self-contradictory. You ask people to engage with civility in the same breath as describing someone who defected from your camp as 'not of the soundest mind' (strange that you did not say that when he belonged to your faith). Is this your idea of civility?!

QED. I rest my case.
For those that don't know RM, he, I believe, suffered from depression (I shall have to check this again). My mother suffers from this condition - it is mind altering. Luckily, it can be treated, though methinks religion may not provide the best answer.

2635. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195637 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 4:19 pm

...I have no case for ID....

There, that's better ;-)

2636. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195636 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 4:18 pm

RtG, I must thank you for Conservapedia. Indeed, the whole office is in stiches. Damn, couldn't you have waited for Friday?
Made my day - comedy has never been so funny!
Quick question - everything in it has a very high Christian bias - do other religions not count for anything? Hmmm, maybe I should ask them...
Again, brilliant, mate, absolutely brilliant!

2637. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195633 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 4:15 pm

Britain, with its atheistic schools, now leads the EU in teen drunkenness. Among 13-year-olds, Wales was most drunken, Scotland second and England fourth.[4]

WAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
From http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page

2638. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195627 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 4:09 pm

The central claim of Intelligent Design theory is that design is empirically detectable...

Hehehehehe - now what is it I am always told...."It's ONLY a theory! Not even fact!" :-D
Aaaah, good to say that!

The IDM's refusal to identify the Designer with the Biblical God, and in particular with the history in the Bible, means that:
Acceptance of ID thinking en masse could just as easily lead to New-Age or Hindu-like notions of creation, as well as weird alien sci-fi notions.[36] In such instances, a Christian might well see that the metaphorical exorcism of one socio-philosophical demon would have achieved merely its replacement by others, possibly worse.

So, RtG - is the Designer God? Or are you open to other possibilities? Aliens, say, from another galaxy, far, far away...?
Did like the disclaimer here

The starting point for increasing your knowledge, your faith and the well-being of you and those around you is to understand concepts better. Conservapedia enables you to do that, and to impart what you have learned to others by editing here. The truth shall set you free.

No other encyclopedic resource on the internet is free of corruption by liberal untruths

No bias, then, eh? And the truth shall indeed set you free - just make sure it has God in it ;-)

Hehehehe - just glancing through the Conservapedia commandments...

When referencing dates based on the approximate birth of Jesus, give appropriate credit for the basis of the date (B.C. or A.D.). "BCE" and "CE" are unacceptable substitutes because they deny the historical basis. See CE.

They also, I notice, have a deep suspicion of anything "liberal" don't they? Mind you, not called Conservapedia for nothing, I guess...

2639. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195286 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 2:27 am

Though Atheists seek evidence the theists argue that proof is not required or counter to that; proof exists all around us.

So good, I have to do it again

Now it is such a bizarrely impossible coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the nonexistence of God. The arguement goes something like this:


"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," say Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't though of that" and promply vanishes in a puff of logic.

2640. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195282 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 2:19 am

ctrkev

I disagree with what most people say when someone converts from Cristianity to Atheism is converting to reason

I'm not 100% in agreement with the way you use "convert" here. That implies a moving from one faith (religious) to another (again, religious). I know what you mean - just don't feel it is right. I would say one loses faith or becomes atheist.
And again, I can see your point about reason. Obviously there is a reason for you to convert (I can say that because you picked up a faith) and it answered questions for you - it clarified thoughts in your head and it made sense. It was reason to you. However, if there are no gods (and of course you took the Pauline sect as your faith - why, may I ask? Had you considered the other faiths on the table?) then we have to use reason to answer our questions - reason as in rational thought. I know you will agree with me that there is no rationality in believing in gods - look at all the arguments for them by the theists. All are apologetic and try to disguise the lack of godly appearances by esotericism and hidden knowledge. "God moves in mysterious ways" and "One cannot presume to understand God" - that sort of thing.
I do hope your theism is a comfort to you as atheism is a comfort to me and hopefully to Oystein, who is also called Loke.
Can I again ask you why Christianity? Not Islam? Buddhism? Animism? Wicca?

Edit

I also believe He loves you more than anything regardless of the choice you made.

And there is a Hell because...? I also have it on good authority he doesn't like homosexuals, Muslims, Christians, Jews, anyone who worships other gods, atheists (obviously), Hindus, Jains, Buddhists, etc, etc, etc...

2641. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195252 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 1:22 am

Even if Kardy's Tom Baker....I mean, Go...Designer (Tom Baker, to me, was the best Time Lord!) did have a time machine - and who is to say he didn't - I still want to know how Nature would be too slow. Doesn't make sense.

2642. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195238 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 1:04 am

Tank - welcome to the world of rational argument. A word of advice - don't touch the atheist faith or you will get this kind of emotive reaction.

Yes, the lucky man can stay with the likes of you. I have to say you are, at least in your written form, one of the more unpleasant, arrogant and friendless people I come across. I dare say you are OK as a man when met in person but here you are someone that I would avoid going to any church to meet. Are you actively trying to keep people atheist? Your only "convert" as far as I can see has been Richard Morgan, and he was not exactly of the soundest mind.
Can you not engage with civility?

2643. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195235 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 12:53 am

There are of course plenty scientists who have no difficulty in believing in miracles

Really?

2644. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195230 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 12:48 am

Clearthinker - all personal opinions. Do you have any evidence to back up your claims?

2645. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195227 by Goldy on June 18, 2008 at 12:16 am

Loke, I admire your courage.

Having been raised as a Christian, I felt like I was betraying my family by giving up my faith.

You had no choice in your faith - I am sure your family will understand. After all, you are still you.
Teratornis...

Now perhaps we can get to the real question: what do you think about peak oil?

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/oil-shortage-a-myth-says-industry-insider-842778.html
And, of course, given that many will tell you that all this oil arrived after a mere 6000 years, should we worry ;-) In fact, in the Lying for Jesus thread, we are told oil forms after only a few minutes. We're safe!! :-D

2646. Rapture site sends unbelievers their last chance ... via email

Comment #195206 by Goldy on June 17, 2008 at 10:17 pm

I lack sufficient faith to construct a reality in which Bigfoot can roam free.

Teratornis, he does exist. It's just that there is only one of him and he has a large patch to cover...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7457894.stm
Now imagine trying to travel incognito across continents to your next gig. Obviously he has to shave and of course, who will believe in his bigfootedness if they see him not hirsute. He has to wait a while for the hair to grow again.
So hard being a bigfoot/yeti/sasquatch/etc.

2647. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195202 by Goldy on June 17, 2008 at 10:05 pm

Much as I like playing a devl's advocate, in this case......no :-) Even I could not make myself sound so lame in public!

2648. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195201 by Goldy on June 17, 2008 at 10:02 pm

I wish one wacko posting would not hijack a whole thread of comments.

Be nice if they could just give us reasonable and rational reasons as to their choice for us. God is lurve and Jesus is the main dude just doesn't ring true to me. And if an intelligent believer can see the flaws in the whole religion argument and indeed have an ex-atheist theologian accentuate those flaws in the argument, what chance does someone have merely by imploring us to follow Jesus going to have.
And, something that really annoys me, why always Christians? Where are the Muslims, the hindus, the Buddhists, the animists, the Wiccans, the Jews, etc? Surely in the great mass of wordly religions, there muct be intelligent people who would like to clearly and rationally explain why there is a god or gods and why we are to follow them.

2649. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195198 by Goldy on June 17, 2008 at 9:48 pm

Methinks Godly read the wrong book...you know how kids can play games...change the book covers and the like... :-)

2650. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195195 by Goldy on June 17, 2008 at 9:35 pm

Funny, eh? The athiest turned believer had a hand in turning the believer into an atheist :-)
Tank

Come to Jesus Christ and praise his name. Belief, Praise, Repentance and Love will do wonders for you.

Please change your minds, please look into the truth and re-discover how awesome Jesus Christ is and what you can accomplish with Him working through you. You know, in your heart, it is true.

That sounds remarkably like a personal opinion. Can you provide evidence for this?