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Comments by Geoff


251. Fleabytes

Comment #148414 by Geoff on March 23, 2008 at 3:14 am

OOH, Steve's turned into Jack Nicholson!

PlagioClase: I've been to PNG; their religion, like (one of) mine, is Rugby League.

Sure, they're mostly nominally Christian (I suspect mostly catholic, though I haven't checked), but all the ones I met treat it mostly as a joke.

252. Fleabytes

Comment #148363 by Geoff on March 22, 2008 at 6:22 pm

Just thought of another example to add to my comment #6782: The Church of Google.
I use their banner in all my forum signatures, many of which are nothing to do with atheism, and I get lots of "kids" commenting on how much they love it.

http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/Scripture/promotional_campaign.html

253. Contribute to science directly by volunteering some of your computer's processing power!

Comment #148358 by Geoff on March 22, 2008 at 5:59 pm

There should be an option to run it without the screensaver.

254. Contribute to science directly by volunteering some of your computer's processing power!

Comment #148352 by Geoff on March 22, 2008 at 5:42 pm

I've not found any problems with either of mine, Steve; which ones are you running?

255. Fleabytes

Comment #148331 by Geoff on March 22, 2008 at 4:44 pm

I'm not arguing. Just watching with interest...

256. Fleabytes

Comment #148308 by Geoff on March 22, 2008 at 3:49 pm

6776. Comment #148290 by Richard Morgan

I know you said "as a general rule", Richard; I just want to drop in an exception:

This chap

http://www.icms.qmul.ac.uk/Profiles/Neuroscience/Priestley John.htm

is my brother-in-law, a devout Christian, and one of the leaders of his church. He has regular prayer-meetings and bible study classes at his house.

I still don't know how he reconciles the two "compartments".

257. Fleabytes

Comment #148302 by Geoff on March 22, 2008 at 3:34 pm

6750. Comment #148249 by Steve Zara

I am convinced that the "youth market" should be the target audience, though. And they're not always "civilised" - as I can attest from personal, often painful, experience with my two!




I am really interested in this. How does it help?


You mean the blasphemy challenge approach?

In a word: "coolness". Probably the most important thing in the life of anyone from school age to, say, mid-twenties.

Make religion uncool. Ridicule it, parody it, marginalise it. Lolcat bible it. Blog it. Make it just something "old biddies" do on a Sunday morning. With the older, hopefully more educated teenagers, ridicule the ideas, too.

"...you believe he did what?"
"...what do you mean, no condom?"
"...on Christmas morning? Are you mad?"
"...had any prayers answered yet?"

In a way, at its most extreme it ties in with Bonzai's "mob culture" example; like "Paki-bashing" or football hooliganism, it's an "in-group; out-group" thing. Make the god-botherers the out-group (I'm not suggesting literally bashing them, of course!).

The churches know this, that's why they're re-inventing their religions to appeal to the youth, with Alpha courses, happy-clappy services, and yes, murky, diluted dogma.

258. No Admission for Evolutionary Biologist at Creationist Film

Comment #148245 by Geoff on March 22, 2008 at 12:56 pm

Christopher, welcome to the madhouse!

From what I understand of "Expelled", I'm not sure you'll get much of the cretinist arguments in it; most of it seems to be about the perceived unfair treatment of creationist scientists (by which I mean, of course, scientists who are creationists, not people doing oxymoronic "creation sciencs").

Somewhere like http://www.talkorigins.org/ is a good resource for you, giving typical cretinist claims, with their real-world explanations.

259. Fleabytes

Comment #148239 by Geoff on March 22, 2008 at 12:38 pm

Steve, I still think that all the different strategies can work on different people (and, for some, no strategy will work, of course).
I think there is a place for the "Condell" approach (and other varieties of humour), just as there is a place for your "softly, softly" approach, and all the shades in between.

I'm personally uncomfortable with the "in-your face", "Blasphemy Challenge" style of approach of the RRS, for example, but I have a lot of anecdotal evidence from my children (late teens) that it works, especially for the younger audience (who wouldn't dream of reading something like TGD).

The only way I can see to deal with things is to be firm, but civilized. I can't see what else there is to do.


One way, IMO, not the only way.

I am convinced that the "youth market" should be the target audience, though. And they're not always "civilised" - as I can attest from personal, often painful, experience with my two!

260. No Admission for Evolutionary Biologist at Creationist Film

Comment #148132 by Geoff on March 22, 2008 at 6:58 am

That one's not been updated yet, as far as I can see?

261. Fleabytes

Comment #148113 by Geoff on March 22, 2008 at 5:45 am

#6666 by who else but irate_atheist.

Splendidly appropriate, sir!

(the temptation to delete one of my earlier posts, however...)
NO! Get thee behind me, Santa! Or something.

262. EXPELLED!

Comment #147912 by Geoff on March 21, 2008 at 3:09 pm

PZ's daughter, Skatje, has posted a review on her blog:

http://skatje.com/?p=381

263. Fleabytes

Comment #147891 by Geoff on March 21, 2008 at 2:09 pm

Pathfinder: sorry about your father, but it's still a bullshit example. Yeah, doctors aren't perfect; but they're a helluva lot more effective than prayer!

264. EXPELLED!

Comment #147884 by Geoff on March 21, 2008 at 1:49 pm

265. EXPELLED!

Comment #147870 by Geoff on March 21, 2008 at 1:19 pm

Steve:

Dammit, I was going to make one of those!

266. Fleabytes

Comment #147868 by Geoff on March 21, 2008 at 1:14 pm

6591. Comment #147853 by Artful_Dodger

Artfully dodged.

267. Fleabytes

Comment #147822 by Geoff on March 21, 2008 at 11:13 am

David, back (belatedly - I've been busy!) to the fertilised eggs:

Three of my follow-up questions have been asked already: the two "soul" ones, and the "spontaneous abortions" (which is where the hint about theodicy came in).
The other one I would ask is whether a fertilised egg in a test-tube is a "child in the womb", and if not, would you apply the same sanctity to it? If not, why do you use the aforesaid emotive phrase instead of calling it what it actually is?

Oh, and, any more suggestions for a "moral absolute" (or comments on why your god has such disdain for your previous suggestion)?

268. EXPELLED!

Comment #147645 by Geoff on March 21, 2008 at 3:55 am

Brilliant!

And that student trying to suggest that ID is not creationism? Did he miss the Dover trial? Pandas: "cdesign proponentsists"?

269. Sci-fi guru Clarke to have secular funeral

Comment #147497 by Geoff on March 20, 2008 at 5:40 pm

My organs are all to be donated: I suspect they'll be used as warnings.

"Look, this is what happens to your liver/stomach/lungs/brain/penis/whatever...if you drink/overeat/smoke~~~~~whatever"

270. The Secular Conscience

Comment #147447 by Geoff on March 20, 2008 at 12:45 pm

Absolutely, al! Studying the religious is vitally important; their philosophies, their politics, their psychology, their literature, their culture, their history...all valid topics.

None of the above is theology.

It's not the gods that we need to understand, it's the people who believe in them.

271. The Secular Conscience

Comment #147438 by Geoff on March 20, 2008 at 12:18 pm

1. The study of the nature of God and religious truth; rational inquiry into religious questions.
2. A system or school of opinions concerning God and religious questions: Protestant theology; Jewish theology.
3. A course of specialized religious study usually at a college or seminary.

I'm very familiar with the definitions, al; they back up my point. It's essentially the study of a fictional character.

Take away the assumption that the god exists, and it becomes a complete non-subject, apart from side issues that fall under existing fields such as philosophy, ethics, psychiatry or history.

God is no more deserving of a subject of his own than is, say, Gandalf or Sherlock Holmes. The only difference is that some people treat him as non-fictional.

In exactly the same way that blasphemy is a victimless crime. theology is a non-subject.

IMO. of course! ;)

272. Beatrix Potter, scientist

Comment #147433 by Geoff on March 20, 2008 at 11:57 am

Nicely revived, bluebird! I'd forgotten this one, good to read it again!

273. The Secular Conscience

Comment #147431 by Geoff on March 20, 2008 at 11:50 am

al-rawandi:


As for theology. I guess fiction literature is also a non subject. Thanks for the clarification.


Not really: the equivalent to studying fiction literature would be "bible studies" (or Q'ranic studies, or whatever).

A more exact analogy would be Romeo-ology, or Jack Ryanology (I like Clancy, too!): ie a character in the book, not the book itself.

Theology is the study of gods, holy books are the "textbooks".

274. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147427 by Geoff on March 20, 2008 at 11:31 am

Rachel. I'll never play Scrabble again without thinking of you!

Philip: the DT crossword? 15 minutes at most. Unless distracted...







...now where did that pen go?

275. Fleabytes

Comment #147317 by Geoff on March 20, 2008 at 6:26 am

http://lolcatgenerator.com/downloads/lolcat-20-3660.jpg

276. Religion 'linked to happy life'

Comment #147311 by Geoff on March 20, 2008 at 6:23 am

Then there is my brother.

He doesn't believe in any God


Then he's an atheist!

An "irrational atheist" (to borrow a phrase) perhaps, but an atheist nonetheless. We don't ALL have to be rational.

277. Fleabytes

Comment #147308 by Geoff on March 20, 2008 at 6:15 am

Quetz:

http://www.codehot.co.uk/lyrics/abcd/bernardcribbins_rsf.htm

278. Fleabytes

Comment #147272 by Geoff on March 20, 2008 at 5:15 am

Another explanation:

http://www.lolcats.com/view/11618

Makes sense to me!

279. Religion 'linked to happy life'

Comment #147267 by Geoff on March 20, 2008 at 5:07 am

119. Comment #146758 by Tumara Baap

Many posters have tried to defend atheism. Something is being missed here. The article was about religious versus non-religious. The non-religious and atheists are not the same. Atheists are an extremely small portion of the non-religious, who've reached their conclusions following vigorous reasoning and reflection.


I disagree. Given that an atheist is simply someone who doesn't believe in a god or gods, it doesn't matter how that was arrived at. Many simply don't believe, without any conscious deliberation about the issue.
It's been pointed out many times that atheism is the default position. A new-born has no religious belief.

280. Fleabytes

Comment #147262 by Geoff on March 20, 2008 at 4:55 am

David, back to my bit, if I may? (sorry, I know you have a lot of us to reply to!)

5652 -Geoff

At what point do you consider a fertilised egg becomes a child? If you read all the comments on that topic, you'll see a wide variety of opinions, mainly concerned with timescales, viability and so on.

I am still interested in your "moral absolutes", too, which seem to have err...fallen by the wayside?




Sorry, how have my moral absolutes fallen by the wayside? AS regards the fertilized egg I don't know but for me it is better to err on the side of caution. It is a moral absolute that life is precious.


I'm not sure if you're being deliberately evasive, or if I didn't express myself clearly enough:

1. You repeatedly use the deliberately emotive phrase: "a child in the womb". Do you genuinely believe that a fertilised egg, or a blastocyst, is "a child"? A form of "Pascal's wager" doesn't really work.
If you do, we may be getting into the realms of theodicy here.

2. My other point there was meant to show a lack of any "atheist creed" regarding abortion, as our varied views have shown.

3. My "fallen by the wayside" comment was aimed at the fact that you seem to have dropped the topic, not that your own personal morals had fallen! Apologies for not making that clear!

4.
It is a moral absolute that life is precious


Really? Which of the many bible stories do you dismiss so easily? Or are you content that your god is shown by his own book to be immoral by your standards?

281. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147206 by Geoff on March 20, 2008 at 3:17 am

Ooh, this thread's come along nicely since yesterday evening! I won't get hung up on the nipples (!), but, al-rawandi, you seem to imply there's something wrong with "slippery"?

I'm with Goldy (and others) on the subject of homosexuality: some people seem to be seeing it as an "either/or" state, rather than a sliding scale.
Sure, there must be some genetic component, as Steve points out, but it has to be much more complex than a single "gay gene", in the same way that Goldy's hair-colour example works.

A gene for "gayness" would have to express itself in a similar way to "tallness" or "blondness".

282. The Secular Conscience

Comment #146996 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 4:25 pm

Read the introduction to the book here:

http://www.austindacey.com/writing.html

283. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #146803 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 12:23 pm

86. Comment #146767 by Rachel Holmes

Rachel, welcome back!

I think I speak for the majority of us when asking if there's anything we can do to help?
Testimonials? Publicity? whatever?

284. The Atheist Apocalypse

Comment #146791 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 12:09 pm

I kinda like it, but a bit more attention to spelling would have been nice.

285. Jesus saves

Comment #146709 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 9:48 am


two minutes left for Abraham in the penalty box for a minor


Shouldn't that have been Mohammed? Or was Abraham a paedophile, too?

286. Two More Fleas

Comment #146704 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 9:39 am

Irate:

"semi-literate"? "SEMI-literate"?

You need to work on your understanding of fractions.

287. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #146677 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 9:18 am

MPhil:


Why not both?


At the same time?

288. Fleabytes

Comment #146666 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 9:10 am

Max & Shayne:

Tom Paxton: "Forest Lawn".

289. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #146627 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 8:31 am

12. Comment #146548 by Peacebeuponme

Irate_Atheist - I think you should tap into the youth market with a "Fucktardz" range of street wear.


Too late!
http://www.cafepress.com/buy/george/-/pv_design_prod/pg_1/p_storeid.71055747/pNo_71055747/id_14093370/opt_/fpt_/c_666/

18. Comment #146590 by Pathfinder
Homosexuality - PRACTISING homosexuality, is a sin...


But "practice makes perfect"! Surely we should all aim for perfection?

Besides, homosexuality can be cured, I don't mean the crude Aversion Therapy treatments of the 50s:
I mean a commitment to our Lord and His Commandments. Look at the ranks of the famous who have remained happily married, in spite of their dastardly inclinations: Sir Michael Redgrave, Leonard Bernstein, Thomas Mann, Maynard Keynes. I
could go on.


I suggest you don't start to play that game, or we can start "naming names", too!

There's nothing wrong with homosexuality until it's corrupted by the hypocrisy of, say, Ted Haggard, or the paedophilia of all those Catholic priests.

290. Fleabytes

Comment #146613 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 8:16 am

Paula, Sadly, it is a spoof.

Isn't it?

Have you looked at the "reader comments"?


mylearnedfriend:

Primary versus secondary sources - eyewitness accounts would presumably be primary?

Indeed, but you don't have any eye-witness accounts. What you have are second- or third-hand hearsay accounts of what eye-witnesses are alleged to have seen.

Effectively, what you have is: "Someone told me they'd seen it".

291. Flipping particle could explain missing antimatter

Comment #146542 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 7:21 am

Just when I start to think I'm getting a vague understanding of physics...

292. Jesus saves

Comment #146537 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 7:18 am

2. Comment #146513 by Alkal

.... and I thought it was a promo for MS word.. "Jesus Saves, so his work is always current"


Jesus copies & pastes from older religions?

293. First 'Rule' Of Evolution Suggests That Life Is Destined To Become More Complex

Comment #146442 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 5:00 am

15. Comment #146088 by Brian English


Sea squirts hatch with a brain. When they find a rock to attach to, they digest their brain as it's no use to them any more. Is that more or less religious?


typo corrected...

294. Fleabytes

Comment #146436 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 4:51 am

Thank you all for my regular morning giggles.

Quetz, I'll read your report later, need more COFFEE first...

295. Atheists claim censorship by billboard company

Comment #146411 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 4:15 am

They could get more publicity from the ensuing debate than they would from the billboard itself.

296. Writer Arthur C Clarke dies at 90

Comment #146409 by Geoff on March 19, 2008 at 4:05 am

I'll miss you, Arthur, you were the first Science Fiction author I ever read.

You will always live on in your books, though; a genuine immortality.

297. First 'Rule' Of Evolution Suggests That Life Is Destined To Become More Complex

Comment #145997 by Geoff on March 18, 2008 at 1:10 pm

I think it's fair to address phenotypic complexity separately though, Steve.

298. Religious groups want Russian cartoon channel shut down

Comment #145964 by Geoff on March 18, 2008 at 12:11 pm


Christian and Muslim groups are demanding that 2X2 be shut down because it airs cartoons, such as South Park, which they deem to be anti-religious, violent as well as promoting homosexuality.


I hope everyone else is demanding that Christian and Muslim groups are shut down because they promote homophobia.

299. Religion 'linked to happy life'

Comment #145958 by Geoff on March 18, 2008 at 12:08 pm

News just in: delusions make you happy!

Big deal. So do alcohol & marijuana.

300. Two More Fleas

Comment #145924 by Geoff on March 18, 2008 at 10:01 am

clearly the irm & uck genes are highly susceptible to mutation.

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