301. The Price of Freedom

Comment #77248 by prettygoodformonkeys on October 8, 2007 at 8:45 pm

I'm glad I'm not in the position to have to decide what to do next. But democracy means that if our voices are heard, our representatives must pay attention. We help the situation by being heard.

Having said that, the situation is difficult. Some may say that she has personal responsibility for the consequences of her actions. Others may say this is a fundamental struggle for free speech, and she deserves the protection of the group. Then other voices rise, saying that in that case, holocaust denial must be protected, crazy religions must be protected, Larry Flynt must be protected, and it turns out that we can not afford to pay all these bills. And on, and on.

But this is my favorite cause, so I say, pay the bill. Let our representatives work out the ramifications, and if they can't, they fall - that's the job. We make them pay lip service if they have to, and then make them go farther, because if it's a groundswell, money and lobby groups take a back seat. This is how we got all our laws, the ones that no longer need private police to protect them, or Ms. Ali, or any of us.

There's no substitute for speaking up, for coming out.

302. CBC Atheism and Humanism Documentary

Comment #77128 by prettygoodformonkeys on October 8, 2007 at 1:56 pm

8. Comment #77098 by Bonzai
I don't see it as "U.S. envy", but as evangelism in a new stage of defensiveness. The religious lecture circuit knows no borders, so they all start to sound the same, the same as all the books they read - that's how they can all agree on such fantastic convolutions.

6. Comment #77092 by onlysky
They don't know any other way of saying it, because the rhetoric is so completely woven into the fabric of any discourse. They actually can't think outside of the religious framework. It's not that they're not interested in finding new phrasing, they really see it as another religion. Speaking as one who has had to do a lot of painful mental deconstruction work in this area, I think they don't yet see it as something that CAN be deconstructed, so complete is the cultural fabric.

BTW: I was brought up Xtian, lapsed, tried to be born again, tried to escape into Taoism, Zen (was even ordained), reacted by being an angry young man (until the 'young' thing fizzled out) but couldn't escape it until I turned around and faced it with the blowtorch of logic. I don't expect a commentator to do the same work just for a story. I'm just glad it gets air time!

303. The Squirrel Wars

Comment #77033 by prettygoodformonkeys on October 8, 2007 at 8:56 am

Really, you guys: squirrels?

I chased off a black bear in my driveway last month, with a slingshot.

1n 1960, when I first came here (British Columbia), as children we could roam the bushes and climb small mountains (wilderness, right up to the edge of town) and never see a bear. No one ever saw a bear, of any kind, near the city (20,000 pop). A friend came for dinner last night and had a black bear running along beside her car; she slowed down so it could cross the road in front of her (we had a lovely dinner, Thanksgiving here in Canada). Another work mate had a black in his carport last week, right in town, and two years ago I saw an Ursus Horribilis cross the road (less than a block from my office) in front of two ladies out for their morning stroll; it was only interested in the apple orchard nearby, but still……

Hunters forty years ago would travel for days on the highway to get to a moose area, and would then skillfully track one on foot through the forest. Last week a friend filled his family's cooler just two kilometers from my house. Anyone without hunting skill can do it now. Yesterday I made fences around my apple and flowering crab to save them from browsing moose. BTW: I don't hunt. I'm not against it; I'm just busy with other things.

Likewise with cougars: no mention, no sightings, impossible that they should be in this area when I was a child. My neighbour has lost three Labrador retrievers to cougars over the last 20 years; 2009 will mark the first official cougar hunting season, ever, in this area. I have seen prints in the snow on a much-used, only an hour-long, recreational trail on the edge of town.

This has been all within my own lifetime, but no problem: one hikes with a rifle now. Something worth noting, though, is that it is not we primates in most of the above cases that are encroaching on these habitats.

The pest that is the most obnoxious (no, not the mosquito – they're really not that bad here) is the little flower that was introduced in the 1800's from somewhere across the pond to someone's window-box or flower pot in New York City: the dandelion. They have choked out most of the diversity in many residential areas. Which is why I like to hike.

Veronique: #1 pest - Wandering Primate!

Cheers to all,
PGFM

304. 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' Religious Group Turning Heads at MSU

Comment #76727 by prettygoodformonkeys on October 6, 2007 at 11:34 pm

Veronique (#76399)and Big T (#76725):

Thank you, very nice! After suffering through so much of it in my formative years, I shouldn't be surprised how easily it rolls off the tongue; feels good to strike back!

305. 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' Religious Group Turning Heads at MSU

Comment #76548 by prettygoodformonkeys on October 6, 2007 at 7:39 am

The reporter's style puzzled me at first, then I realized that it would be impossible for a TV station to laugh along with something like this. Along with their power to broadcast, they actually have an address to stalk and vandalize, and most likely shareholders, and bosses.

I think they colluded as much as they possibly could, and the whole thing was a success.

Another small noodly appendage has slithered its way through the drainboard of society: on to the next!

306. Scandal brewing at Oral Roberts U.

Comment #76401 by prettygoodformonkeys on October 5, 2007 at 5:52 pm

Oral is an abomination.

So is Anal.

307. 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' Religious Group Turning Heads at MSU

Comment #76333 by prettygoodformonkeys on October 5, 2007 at 2:27 pm

Verily, I say unto you that it shall come to pass that when the Antipasto has reigned for 1,000 years, and mankind has simmered in its own juices for all that time, then will the Cheeses return to earth "trailing clouds of Glorious Sauce", adorned by Precious Raymond, and attended by a host of exceedingly heavenly condiments, and He will judge us all, finding us either Al Dente or not Al Dente.

And it shall come to pass that the most succulent of us shall drift skyward, along with one-half of every chair, each after its own kind, and they shall be guided by the two angels, Fusilli and Linguini, to gaze finally upon the noodly countenance of the FSM.

It has been said of old that "No man can serve two pastas", and yet, lo, I say unto you that side salads shall be served, with Caesar dressing rendered unto those salads that are Caesars, and Romano spears of Brochetti shall cause the tomato sauce to flow from their sides.

Those not chosen shall be simmered much longer, and must sit on the remaining half-chairs, with their Left Behinds. And there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Anyone who adds a word to this, or takes away a word, shall be in danger of the Judgement: sent off without supper.

308. The Problem with Atheism

Comment #75838 by prettygoodformonkeys on October 3, 2007 at 7:57 pm

Just as there will always be religious people, there will always be atheists. This is just a call to look outside of the labels, where there is more work to be done.

There will always be people at a place in their lives who need to stick out their chins and openly defy the authority of the day, and there will always be scribes and lawyers and letter-writers in the background who quietly work for change in their own way.

They both need each other.

They have never understood each other.

Just carry on!

309. There Go The Dinosaurs

Comment #73949 by prettygoodformonkeys on September 26, 2007 at 7:51 pm

BT Murtagh: that was a long weekend, though, three days.

Dr Benway: I'd like to buy you a drink

310. Youtube hater, I respect your right to free speech.

Comment #70600 by prettygoodformonkeys on September 16, 2007 at 8:57 am

This is what 'herding cats' is going to be like, people: uncomfortable personal growth.

If we're too comfortable with our own demographic, we will ALL stay marginalized.

It's not OUR table that we are inviting the others to.

311. Review of Richard Dawkins' new book 'The Fascism Delusion'

Comment #69147 by prettygoodformonkeys on September 9, 2007 at 7:31 pm

This thing is starting to rock

312. The smallest signs of retreat

Comment #68945 by prettygoodformonkeys on September 9, 2007 at 8:02 am

Regarding her mix-and-don't-match approach to reason & logic, someone here said:
"Ms. Bunting needs a good punting"

I submit: Madeleine needs a good paddlin'.....(?)

313. Bible Belter

Comment #68836 by prettygoodformonkeys on September 8, 2007 at 10:39 pm

heathen2: very nice of you to post that, thank you!

314. Bible Belter

Comment #68826 by prettygoodformonkeys on September 8, 2007 at 9:50 pm

Northernbright: I have heard that same criticism of Mr. Hitchens - and yours was very well described - but the commentator was not (and usually isn't in North America) looking for a debate, nor an interview: he just wanted to beat on a certain drum. The style over here is to appear to have all points of view represented, then focus the rhetoric on your bias; it's all advertisement, that's how this continent was brought up - on sound bites. Even the content of a Presidential debate isn't important, it sometimes comes down to: "which one would you like to have a beer with?". Ridiculous.

I confess (no surprise to you I'm sure) that I throw down hard on the side of Mr. Hitchens. Reason, after all, has been present and accurate for many decades, but people get to ignore it, to use the calculators, televisions, MRI's, etc, withhout having to adjust their view of reality, their way of voting, or their opinion of curriculum content - to the implications of the newly described world.

We've all been sleeping; it's catch-up time.

I empathize with your (and by extrapolation, many others') preference for politesse, but reason alone has not worked. It is my preference also: it is the world I want. It has worked for me, and for you, but it does not describe the whole of reality (we are animals after all, and doing pretty good for monkeys), and I am now concerned for the coming world of my first grandchild (born today at 3:13 PM, PST).

We have to take them on. If something is ridiculous, throw an egg at it and don't apologize.

315. The smallest signs of retreat

Comment #68625 by prettygoodformonkeys on September 8, 2007 at 12:30 am

I'm starting to see all these submissions (Ms. Bunting) as if they're coming from the religious equivalent of The Postmodernism Generator.

Irrelevant ravings.

316. We need a more intelligent religion debate

Comment #68623 by prettygoodformonkeys on September 8, 2007 at 12:01 am

Oh god; everybody wants to say something.

What a ghastly bit of typing.
(the article, I mean)

317. Bible Belter

Comment #68327 by prettygoodformonkeys on September 6, 2007 at 8:30 pm

Northernbright: I think you're correct, it IS unreasonable, but people aren't just reason; confrontation of the status quo is best served hot.
As for CH's repetition, can we only use a good quote once?
Your self-control is admirable (well, self-admirable), and so is the polite demeanor and thoughtful delivery of RD, but in a rough & tumble debate with experienced neanderthals, you need an intellectual street-fighter who won't get his feelings hurt.
Surely there's room for us all?

318. Bible Belter

Comment #68258 by prettygoodformonkeys on September 6, 2007 at 2:30 pm

There are many ways to spread freethinking, but in my experience an intelligent, humourous BRAT is the best. Once you have seen the humour it is impossible to un-see it, while reams of reasonable explanation can be effectively dismissed by lesser minds with just a bit of wit.

The combination of CH's reason and humour is devastating; no one has to be perfect, surely.

I mean, even Jesus.......well, never mind!

319. The God Delusion One-Year Countdown

Comment #67644 by prettygoodformonkeys on September 4, 2007 at 5:28 am

I should have been buying them instead of lending mine out.
I suppose I'll buy one more - I haven't seen mine in almost a year anyway & I'd like to read it again!

320. A World of Eloquence in an Upturned Palm

Comment #67012 by prettygoodformonkeys on September 1, 2007 at 10:34 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Brasil.RioDeJaneiro.Corcovado.jpg
http://www.picturesofjesus4you.com/295.html
http://www.picturesofjesus4you.com/405.html
http://www.picturesofjesus4you.com/288.html

Many statues and portraits of Jesus, then, seem to be saying: "I got nothin'". More likely, though, they want you to feel like you need to give something, tapping into guilt.

321. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #65563 by prettygoodformonkeys on August 24, 2007 at 8:36 pm

weavehole, good observation: both are examples of horrible suffering. I submit that we accept Sylvia Plath's because we can relate to it, but it is really no different in the little nun.

It's even possible that they each fucked up the same number of people - that is to say, confused, struggling mammals.

322. CNN Request for 'I-Reports' on religion

Comment #65560 by prettygoodformonkeys on August 24, 2007 at 8:24 pm

Scep, that seems a tad smug. Better minds than mine or yours have spent a lifetime struggling with it, because it's the luck of the draw how the shit finds you.

I don't think I was born with a "reason-based-mind", I am just doing pretty good for a monkey. And so are the religious, by the way.

Isn't that the real lesson from biology, from evolution? Do you really think these people are "other", that they don't have brains? If we think that, we don't understand them, and we can't understand ourselves, so what the fuck are we up to? Same as "them", that's what, and all this goes nowhere.

323. A hole lot of nothing found by astronomers

Comment #65555 by prettygoodformonkeys on August 24, 2007 at 7:29 pm

The fact that there's anything at all is the anomaly; not really so weird to find nothing - in a universe where the sum of all energy is zero.

I think we have the floor, gentlemen!

324. Send In the Clergy!

Comment #65483 by prettygoodformonkeys on August 24, 2007 at 12:56 pm

Things work better when the government is afraid of US.

We always have to step up, because it's ours, not theirs.

325. Artificial Life Likely in 3 to 10 Years

Comment #64566 by prettygoodformonkeys on August 20, 2007 at 5:54 pm

scooternyc: even under the effects of two G&T's I know:

1) "over time science will reveal.." means less than nothing;
2) no one understands quantum physics; and
3) we won't be here (or anywhere) to see what happens.

Bizarro: 3 - 10 years, all your arguments will have evaporated. just the fact that it is proven possible, under a combination of earth conditions, for self-replication to have begun, immediately makes it infinitely more probable than "sky guy did it".

326. Artificial Life Likely in 3 to 10 Years

Comment #64461 by prettygoodformonkeys on August 20, 2007 at 6:15 am

"We aren't smart enough to design things, we just let evolution do the hard work and then we figure out what happened"

This is the sentence that will come back to bite the ID 'theorists' if these experiments work. This describes an amazing, interesting life without religion - and in fact, describes life as it actually has been for hundreds and thousands of years. I'm almost praying that this works.

What a great way to start the week!

327. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62763 by prettygoodformonkeys on August 11, 2007 at 9:22 am

(I'll see if this goes through this time...)

Here's a twist on having faith the The Maker Of All Things is deeply involved in your personal health.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28423

328. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62761 by prettygoodformonkeys on August 11, 2007 at 9:17 am

Here's a twist on having faith that The Maker Of All Things is deeply involved in your personal health.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28423

329. Ducking the God Question

Comment #60327 by prettygoodformonkeys on August 1, 2007 at 3:29 pm

"molecular biologist?
Hope there are no more glaring errors in this otherwise well written article."

I also noted that he has Dembski pretending to be a sociologist, when in actuality he pretends to be a mathematician. Or philosopher.

330. Come Out!

Comment #59676 by prettygoodformonkeys on July 30, 2007 at 6:26 am

GMH: good suggestions, but... I am not a Chomsky-ite. It was just an appropriate concept, credited to Chomsky.

Good irony, though, doling out labels wholesale in a discussion about the clarification of labels. Labels are nothing else but an emotionally charged over-simplification, which you have deftly illustrated.

Also consider: "God is Dead, and all I got was this t-shirt"

331. Come Out!

Comment #59483 by prettygoodformonkeys on July 29, 2007 at 8:10 am

The logo is good, and will find other applications. I am glad to see something like this happening, but will wait for the merchandise to evolve for different situations: necklaces to replace crosses (red gold? I would buy that), smaller logos, pins, etc. I like the tattoo idea.

A tasteful necklace the size of the typical Christian cross would stimulate discussion. I've sometimes thought that an "X" on a chain instead of the "t" cross would do something similar.

Reasonably-sized "A" logo, small "theist": I could wear that in my redneck, pinch-brained, resource-extraction town. I welcome most religious confrontation, but a large "A" with no explanation would quickly be re-labeled "Asshole", and there would no longer be any point in wearing it in the face of (what Chomsky calls) the "emotionally charged over-simplification" that stops further thought and discussion. Make a link, don't have to think.

Having said that, we may now finally be on the way to the herding of cats.......

(BTW: the avatar is a painting from 1914 by an art student in Germany, who signed it: A. Hitler)

332. Religion beat became a test of faith

Comment #57911 by prettygoodformonkeys on July 22, 2007 at 7:56 am

I agree, TinyRobot; a little too much judging on this guy, I think.

Some of us don't appear to understand how frightening and painful it is to dismantle an entire belief system that you have been created inside of. It isn't an intellectual exercise, and it isn't necessarily exhilarating - not initially, at any rate.

Obviously it was still worth doing, even without a perfectly intact and intellectually integrated world view.

Anyone else out there like that?

333. Must the US president believe in God?

Comment #57721 by prettygoodformonkeys on July 20, 2007 at 6:43 pm

I have enjoyed you all for some time and can now finally log in.

I, too, prefer it without the "under God", but I have some trouble with the "indivisible" thing as well. I know many of you are scientists; have you come across anything indivisible? Especially something so ephemeral as a nation?

I should say I am from Canada, in case you hadn't guessed.....

Cheers all!