301. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #113075 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 2:19 pm

"A choice of getting drugs or getting sober?" Is that a meaningful opposition?

I love this statement - it just shows how much you're out of touch with the reality.

Reality is understanding the choices presented to you; the choices that are there for your personal choosing

To take a drug or not is a personal choice

You are accountable for that choice

You are responsible for that choice

HILARIOUS!

Clearly the Darwin idea of evolution with regards to intelligence is observed to be stultified with quite a few people here thinking themselves intelligent - "breathtaking inanity" as it was once called.

Several of you have no understanding of science, how it is observed, outcomes, the physiology of the body. And yet you come onto the blog and spew your stupidity as though it was logic – it's like watching a Fellini film.

I have been most entertained.

302. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112890 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 8:31 am

Interesting. I have a general policy to take responsibility as a default. You can always control what you feel you are responsible for. Once you write it off as "fate" or "bad luck" you give up ownership of your destiny.

Most sane thing I've read today.


On the other hand, that does not mean that people are never dealt a shitty hand in life. People do not always know about all the choices they have. Choices are only good so long as you know you have them.

Agreed. So that is why supposedly we have parents, teachers and others in society to help someone realize they have choices.

And who becomes responsible for not letting children and adults know what the choices are?

If someone is okay with saying to a drug addict "you have a choice of getting drugs or getting sober" and the person says "I want the drugs" , what then do we call the person who gives the drug addict the money to purchase the drugs.

That's right – an enabler; complicit in a another person's self-destruction.

Frankly, I have no shares in the person wanting the drugs - just at no cost to others. It's your life, do with it as you please.

Sounds like a lot of people here want to "save" everyone, much like jesus, I suppose.

303. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112886 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 8:23 am

Are children exempt? If a child makes a choice to play with matches and they start their room on fire, would you risk your life to save him? What if it were your own child? Is empathy a disease when it comes to helping children? Or do they too have to learn "the hard way" how to be responsible for their own choices?

If a child makes a choice to play with matches and starts the room on fire – natural evolutionary instinct kicks in and the organism that is you, responds by grabbing the child to safety.

Children do learn the hard way in order to become responsible and accountable.

However, teaching your child that any decent excuse will give them a pass for behavior he/she acted out, does so much harm to society.

But, hey, no one cares about that anyway, it's just about how they "feel" that counts.

Which is ironic in this thread since it seems that no one agrees with the last sentence of Michael's writing except presumably me.

But who said rational thought and logic were a requirement to have a kid, indoctrinate into a "nanny" philosophy and then blame everyone else for the choices made along the way in life.

"I'm only responsible for the 'good' choices I've made; all the bad ones are your fault".

304. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112870 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 7:50 am

When it comes to money, as in most other aspects of life, reason and rationality are trumped by emotions and feelings

The statement thus rings true, as I made this observation at the beginning of this thread.

305. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112868 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 7:48 am

annabanana - well good for you, whatever you wish.

306. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112867 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 7:47 am

No, you complicate the choice in order to manufacture some sort of excuse or pass for someone actually making the choice, thus being accountable and responsible - taking ownership of the reality.

It's very simple, as is much of life – I didn't say it was awesome in observation, I said it was simple.

307. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112846 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 7:12 am

Breathing is a choice.

You don't know what you're talking about. You need to go read a science book about physiology and how the body works. There are plenty of things the body does automatically for survival.

308. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112844 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 7:11 am

Do we all not understand that choice is a personal freedom each person owns?

309. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112838 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 7:05 am

Most addicts who successfully are able to quit have failed many many times before.

To take the drug is STILL A CHOICE. It doesn't matter how the recidivism rate goes.

310. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112804 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 5:41 am

So would you hesitate before attempting to relieve the suffering of someone trapped in a building on fire?

If it meant at the cost of my own life - yes.

I remind you from our previous posts – all actions at no cost to others.

Again, you negate the instinct that has risen in evolution of averting danger for self or others.

The accountability is revealed upon the cessation of the fire.

But I have said nothing less than this in terms of revealing a situation and then holding the person accountable and responsible.

311. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112802 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 5:37 am

I'm afraid your etymological knowledge is dodgy too

Yours is just one of many definitions of said word.

We use words all the time that have several meanings and are perfectly rational to do so - it neither negates nor furthers your statement.

Within the context of my statements the word empathy is so stated and explained in simple terms

You have the freedom and choice to agree or not -no one is stopping you

312. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112800 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 5:31 am

If you think that the drug addict either "understands" the choices presented in connection with his or her addiction, or "is able to respond" to the choices available, I'm afraid you're revealing a serious lack of understanding

Really? Then that must mean all the millions of addicts who HAVE made decisions to become accountable and responsible and who live a life of sobriety are then forfeit of this idea.

That's clear, thank you.

If I see a person suffering or hurt.

This is the point. Attempts to relieve another's suffering is not holding him/her accountable or responsible and taking ownership of the reality he/she created for themselves.

You may find that person was a cad...but in the mean time you may have further funded that person into continuing such behavior. Brilliant.

Tell you what, why hold people accountable or responsible at all - let someone shoot you and then excuse the shooting.

313. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112778 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 4:31 am

BAEOZ you miss the whole point of accountability and responsibility

314. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112773 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 4:21 am

BAEOZ - We can only observe then that you agree with the idea of NOT holding people personally accountable and personally responsible for their choices

Excuses are the dujor for your thinking then.

The ID generation - I deserve

Got it

315. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112770 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 4:15 am

Accountability - taking ownership of one's reality by understanding the choices presented and making a choice at any given moment

Responsibility - being able to respond to the choices made

Freedom to make a choice of your own

**Empathy - a diseased emotion of placing one's self in another's shoes in order to take action which does not hold the individual of focused "empathy" accountable for his/her choice

Relegating responsibility for an individual's choice to another is being a victim

**pathy is derived from Greek for pathos, meaning disease. See #112387

Forgot to add - choices made at no cost to others

316. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112765 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 4:06 am

When you start using a more scientific approach to this whole question...

Observation is a scientific approach

Observing outcomes is a scientific approach

Perhaps you're not familiar with these concepts yourself; there is much information on the web that can assist you

317. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112762 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 4:03 am

Never use "utilize" when you can utilize "use" instead;-)

LOL! That's funny! Thanks for the early morning laugh.

I hate sarcasm. ;)

318. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112760 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 4:02 am

Steve, nice information, but you offered no particular situation by which we could place it under the "microscope".

we mentally model what it would be like to be in that situation ourselves.

And this is at the center of that which I have proferred to you - a person places him/her self in the "shoes" of another and then projects potential outcomes of discourse for which relief is sought, not for the person in the situation, but for the person supposedly "assisting"

As such, the person placing himself or herself then takes action which does not hold others accountable for their personal reality.

Let's take your drug addict example: the individual's reality is that he/she is at any moment at a crossroads of choice

He/she continues to choose the drug for which natural consequences occur

He/she is responsible for the choice and thereby the outcomes as a result

He/she had the freedom to choose differently, and did not

He/she had the choice of seeking assistance by which to get off drugs and contribute to society, but does not

Who then is responsible for this choice - the individual

Who then is responsible for the outcomes - the individual

Anyone handing that person a dollar on the street then is satisfying his/her own projection not attempting to assist that person

Having "empathy", placing yourself in his/her shoes, is merely saying, "if it were me I'd want you to hand me a dollar" - precisely the diseased pattern - not wanting to be held accountable and take ownership of the reality by which to be able to respond; wanting someone to "save" you

Why that sounds awfully religious doesn't it - we want jesus to save us; jesus came to save us from ourselves; jesus saves; god help me.

319. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112755 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 3:38 am

Oh dear, my fine young friend, this is an old debating trick

Yes, of course you would respond as such.

320. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112752 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 3:29 am

Truly the lack of intellectual capacity is concerning:


wont
1 : accustomed
2 : inclined apt

You are merely revealing your own lack of research not only to language utilized, but how then would one even give credit to your ideas on most other subjects.

And I hope you are to be offended, no need to attempt to read between the lines.

321. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112751 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 3:24 am

Well, Richard, then why don't you answer the question and be willing to track back the concept of empathy as diseased thought.

What's a situation for which empathy played a part in your action?

322. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112749 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 3:22 am

Steve, you keep wont of distraction.

The study of instinct to avert one's self of danger was not more plainly represented in my previous post. There is a great deal of research, even Dan Dennett speaks of such instinct in his book, Breaking The Spell. It really is a distraction for which perhaps you have not researched enough information. No worries, just focus then on my question.

What's a situation for which empathy played a part in your action?

323. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112744 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 3:10 am

it's a natural impulse(instinct) in most species to avert danger


Evolution

Instinctive behavior can be demonstrated across much of the broad spectrum of animal life, down to bacteria that propel themselves toward beneficial substances, and away from repellent substances.

According to Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection, a favorable trait, such as an instinct, will be selected for through competition and improved survival rate of life forms possessing the instinct. Thus, for evolutionary biology, instincts can be explained in terms of behaviors that favor survival.

Back to the original discussion:

What's a situation for which empathy played a part in your action?

324. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112742 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 3:01 am

Steve, you're not wanting to focus on the empathy component.

Even Michael Shermer's comment of reason and rational trumps emotion and feelings, lends itself to this understanding.

I don't need an emotion or "feeling" to call 911 and lend assistance to help put out the fire and subvert further danger; it's a natural impulse in most species to avert danger. Again, like the physiology discussion, it goes down a road that is distracting.

Let's just focus on the empathy feeling that is at the center of this discussion.

What's a situation for which empathy played a part in your action?

325. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112739 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 2:55 am

I just answered it:

Empathy does not drive a person to act accordingly in order to render assistance in the situation of a fire.

326. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112737 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 2:53 am

Rather than a hypothetical, why not just present a situation for which you believe that empathy played a part in your action.

327. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112735 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 2:52 am

Empathy does not drive a person to act accordingly in order to render assistance in the situation of a fire.

328. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112734 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 2:48 am

Perhaps this helps, do you agree with this definition:

identification with the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.

329. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112730 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 2:44 am

Steve, discussing the physiology of just the hunger idea was not advancing the discussion. Discussing the auto-response idea will lead to the same.

The discussion for which has been at the center of this back/forth is "empathy" and the disease of said emotion which leads one to behavior.

Let's focus on the empathy component.

330. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112726 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 2:30 am

So what is a situation by which empathy played a role in your action.

331. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112723 by scooternyc on January 18, 2008 at 2:21 am

I can't parse this statement to get anything meaningful.

If your body sends a signal to your brain that tells it that you need sustenance - the thought you have is "I'm hungry"

This thought renders an action that motivates you to satisfy the body's needs by eating.


Steve, you tell me a situation then that fits your "empathy" motivation.

332. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112666 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 5:50 pm

Steve - language is symbolic of thought; the organism that is you is driven by motivation; thought renders an action to satisfy the motivation.

Let's make it simple - present a particular action and we'll go from there.

Saying that "empathy" is the action means nothing; that's an emotion applied to specific situations.

Every action in life is motivated by personal agenda.

Would you give money to a beggar on the street?

What is the feeling you get by doing so?

333. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112631 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 3:42 pm

"Claiming to know what peoples' motivations are when you have never even met them is also...(not a good idea)

By all means prove me wrong.

334. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112629 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 3:36 pm

Also - Claiming to know what peoples' motivations are when you have never even met them is also, I suggest, not a good idea.

Much is revealed in a person's use of language, the subtleness of words, inflections, and such, say much about the individual.

Few are willing to explore it or even wont of understanding it - instead the just have an emotional reaction and then spew such garbage at others.

335. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112628 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Steve - I have done that, but apparently to no effect

Sir, you have done no such thing.

You have not presented any situation by which you were willing to go down the road of honest disclosure, to walk it back.

Had you been willing this information would have revealed itself prior to our most current posts.

I'm more than happy to hear your presented situation and walk it back with you regarding the formula I have suggested for each personal being held accountable, taking ownership of his/her personal reality, being able to respond in ways that are at no cost to others, foundation in freedom and choice.

You present the situation - and we'll begin.

336. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112421 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 4:19 am

"Now, I would not feel that innaproppriate of a therapist who has spend time with that person and understands their background and influences.

Steve, this implication is similar to giving credential to some guy at a pulpit who must have knowledge of something simply because he wears a collar and stands up there in a fancy dress.

It's like saying, "they've been married for 50 years" - so what. That's not a credential for a good marriage it's merely an observation for endurance of one another.

Our time is better spent not always using supposed credentials of another and instead listening and deciding for ourselves if the information, concepts, ideas fit for us individually, as worthwhile, then researching said information where data is cited.**

This is a huge part of our problems in the relinquishing of having to search our own answers before endorsing others as the prophets.

Contempt or Credential, prior to investigation - never a good idea.

**BTW - is this not how a hypothesis is formed, ideas are presented, then data is gathered to prove or disprove? Funny how that works. ;)

337. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112419 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 4:05 am

Why not then unmask action for the underlying motivation and see if my statements are incorrect?

I've placed this challenge before on many a blog over the years with no takers because I surmise no one wants to be revealed for their own hidden motivations which are not holding others accountable or responsible, especially if they agree with those concepts.

338. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112411 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 3:52 am

Steve, my credential means nothing, why can't two adults speak their minds, throw out concepts and search for answers?

Disclosure of any "credential" merely allows the other person off the hook for having to think through the discussion because he/she is utilizing information of said credential to make all sorts of assumptions. Let's not do that.

I don't need to know your credentials to hear your side of any issue, just my open mind to your ideas.

No connection to the Pentagon. :(

I'll save the "offended" topic for another time, but worth exploring.

339. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112404 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 3:40 am

You can disagree all you like, but unless you're willing to reveal a personal situation for which to reveal the motivation, then it's all hidden.

You want me to "justify" my point of view? How so?

You're now wanting to be offended? Now, you're just taking a victimized stance, no need to do so but you can if you like.

And, sir, if anyone is being defensive, it's you at this point. I have no shares in you agreeing or disagreeing with me.

I challenge you to ask yourself why you are offended and then explore it rationally.

340. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112400 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 3:33 am

Peacebeuponme - "We have a disagreement both with the utility of empathy and the ability for conscious control of emotions.

Not surprised in the least. :)

341. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112398 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 3:23 am

There is a hidden motive, Steve, all the time. There is no action in such a state that is not motivated. It's hidden when it is not revealed to the casual observer, no?

If stated openly of motivation, then the dismantling of such is easily done as it breaks down the personal accountability/responsibility factors.

Shift the paradigm by contemplating that not having empathy doesn't mean that the person doesn't have concern or care.

342. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112394 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 3:15 am

Peacebeuponme - Research for yourself the idea of "pathy" and its derivation of pathos, which means disease.

In doing so you also understand that when a person has "empathy" they are attempting to connect to another's pain - for what reason or motivation? (that's rhetorical)

My comment # 219 to Steve elaborates this idea.

343. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112388 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 3:06 am

"To say you hold a particular position is one thing. To say you hold that position, and to also claim that those who disagree with you must have questionable motives is quite another.

Yes, and to say you are doing for another with a hidden agenda of motive for self is quite disingenuous. Motives are questionable when the act is fulfilling your need of quieting a deep seeded fear or want of others to witness your supposed act of kindness or some such other rationalization; perhaps power as in the case of politics in order to control others.

There is a motive and it should be questioned when it does not hold the individual accountable.

Again, we move right back to personal accountability and personal responsibility for personal choices made.

344. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112387 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 2:59 am

Part 2 Steve:

"Empathy" is an emotional "diseased", if you will, reaction to justifying and rationalizing another's behavior by which a decision to excuse his/her personal choices and thus not be held accountable - not have to pay the piper for the choice.

I said to al-rawandi earlier that I am concerned and find it tragic that a lack of humanity toward our fellow man/woman happens; rape, killing, etc.

However, it is more useful to look at these choices people are making to commit these crimes, decide how best to apply civil consequences and then act accordingly.

We make laws in civil society to apply consequences to those free choices that people make where they have crossed the line from cost only to themselves to costs of others.

If individually each person would just make choices at no cost to others, can you imagine how that shifts the paradigm of living, instantly.

Getting one's self all worked up is merely getting that "hit" of chemical reaction in the body. The more you get the "hit" the more you want it and the cycle of addiction takes over.

Being clouded by chemical reactions in the body that are spiking the body emotionally, is not a good way of making decision. Take if you will, those that in a state of inebriation or "love" decide to have sex because the chemical drive is so intense, they do so without condoms...and the cycle continues

Yet, in the aftermath we re-evaluate and sometimes realize the mistake made and hope for the consequences to be minimized

But then the chemical hit happens again and this is why people get to a feeling of remorse - making a choice out of emotion rather than logic, reason, intellect, among others, and doing so time after time

345. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112386 by scooternyc on January 17, 2008 at 2:59 am

Steve - once again, I appreciate your rational approach.

"I could not disagree more. I think empathy is one of the finest things about humanity.

No problem you thinking anything you like, but if you research the word, you'll understand its meaning.

"There is no motivation. Empathy is natural, and should be automatic"

Again, this is your subjective opinion that empathy is natural for you or automatic. There's quite a bit of societal pressure when growing up to mimic behavior, especially emotionally, and one can easily train him/her self as such to believe it as reality - kinda like religion itself.

Susan Blackmore wrote a terrific book about memes that is worth reading The Meme Machine

"We should feel pain when we see and hear about the suffering of others. If we don't, then we have a psychological problem.

Interesting totalitarian idea of what people should be feeling. ;)

"I think that without empathy, humanity is doomed.

Actually, it's been the disease of empathy that has created more problems for this world, not the only one, but certainly one. (SHAM - Self Help Actualization Movement, another book worth reading)

If each individual would merely be held personally accountable for his/her own reality – essentially the choices each person faces on a daily basis…

Then upon making those choices be held personally responsible, we move away from quite a lot of problems.

Doesn't mean we can't assist people in making their choices; teaching how to evaluate the concepts of actions/reactions and outcomes

We stop giving people a free ride

346. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #112025 by scooternyc on January 16, 2008 at 8:13 am

al-rawandi - you respond to only a portion of the post, albeit because of your emotional investment.


You chose not to read:

Yes, I see these behaviors and have concern as to how to resolve them. My objective reason for desire to support and assist is because I enjoy freedom and choice in my life as a result of our democracy and independence.

As such, I would like to see all people who desire to live free and have choice have that opportunity.

This is not emotional, but rational, logical and based on what evidence I've observed over the years of those who have such opportunity.

Now, how is it that I'm being uncaring when in fact I want to solve such issues and bring forth opportunity for others to NOT have such burden?

Is it because I don't get emotionally charged, I'm not jumping up and down, throwing a tantrum; asking others to "see how much I care" types of behavior, therefore I'm not caring?

Responses 111932 and beyond clearly outline this further and worth reading, if you haven't.

Now I must go to my free-market job and earn wages by which I re-invest in society and it's many opportunities for others to succeed by purchasing goods and services.

347. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #111958 by scooternyc on January 16, 2008 at 4:44 am

The thing I do have a problem with is when you attempt to figure out the motivations of others.

I'm not judging, I'm observing. If you want to know motivation, then you ask. This vetting of information then leads to conclusion.

I have asked; I've observed; I assimilate. If one is motivated by any emotion I've not outlined, then it has yet to be revealed.

Empathy is a derivative of pathos which is disease. Empathy has become a euphemism for sympathy which is about "suffering together". I don't accept this foundation for living; it's destructive to the person and it's condescending to insult. "Oh, you poor schlep, you have such poor circumstance"

If you attempt to empathize, place yourself in their position, then what is your motivation for doing so? Fear? Sympathy? Are these not emotional responses that are self-serving - to relieve you of the perceived personal pain - what pain does it relieve of the individual?

Rather I like stating: "You're an individual with the ability to manage your life; here are some options if you desire; here's how to observe actions/reactions and outcomes; now you decide how you want to live - your choice."

That's a helping hand not a handout.

Empathy isn't' needed.


P.S. no need to apologize, it's simply your emotions acting themselves out ;)

348. Canadian fossil makes waves in Huckabee's presidential run

Comment #111954 by scooternyc on January 16, 2008 at 4:12 am

I'm glad for the discovery and find it quite amazing.

I find Huckabee's take on evolution very condescending and as most religious, quite the attitude of superiority - I guess dominion over animals is their stance.

I said yesterday on another site to one of these religious types that if you think that you're superior over animals, place yourself in a situation with you and a lion and we'll see who comes out alive - it won't be you, baby.

Man is more vulnerable to nature than he wants to admit.

349. Huckabee Wants A 'Faith-based' Constitution

Comment #111952 by scooternyc on January 16, 2008 at 4:02 am

Interestingly though, this guy is quite liberal on a great deal of other issues

MikeHuckabee


It's hilarious to watch this trainwreck.

I hope he keeps talking so everyone can get past the hype and see who he is.

350. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #111941 by scooternyc on January 16, 2008 at 3:38 am

MaxD - regarding Ayn Rand, some seem to think that if one's philosophy happens to agree with someone else's then you must endorse all such philosophy of said individual.

It's like saying that if you like Christopher Hitchens take on religion then you obviously endorse his position on everything else.

It's too bad the message of intellect so often gets distracted by emotional rhetoric instead.

Steve and I have had good exchange that's worth reading if you choose. He makes statements that are popular but not universal, which is great because he's willing to place those ideas under the scope to further investigation. Much like science itself, wouldn't you say.

One might derive this observation as being open minded to new ideas - the commodity of all future endeavors, fortunately for all of us.

Whether one changes his/her mind is not as important as the open dialogue as others may read and find inspiration or a paradigm shift for themselves one way or another.

It's supported me in reading things on this site and others to develop my own understanding of certain issues, like religion and its falsehoods, for example. I'm grateful for that opportunity and those willing to share their ideas.