351. God Hates the World

Comment #53106 by Lauregon on June 29, 2007 at 12:10 pm

Reading David's entries at the Free Church forum, I see a man who's like a sealed bottle which has no capacity for allowing in what's not already contained. His obsession with RD hints at a man with doubts he's unable to satisfactorily cope with.

352. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #52943 by Lauregon on June 28, 2007 at 3:47 pm

McGrath may have presented the most irritating barrage of circular Christian apologetic I've ever had the privilege of enduring.

Dawkins, by contrast, demonstrated a razor-sharp focus that's almost exhilerating to watch!

353. God Hates the World

Comment #52921 by Lauregon on June 28, 2007 at 2:14 pm

Wee Flea, your faith in a loving God doesn't constitute "evidence." No matter how you slice it, faith is faith. It's a whole different thing than reason and observable, verifiable reality. Bon voyage! Do enjoy your visit to those seven churches and the nodding believers therein!

354. God Hates the World

Comment #52683 by Lauregon on June 27, 2007 at 6:14 pm

Re: Post #163

J and Lauregon – utter nonsense. Neither of you have heard time and time again people proclaiming 'God hates the world'. Why lie? - Wee Flea


A God who decides that eternal punishment in hell is an appropriate response to human disbelief in supernatural doctrines of vicarious atonement for human "sin," is a God of hate, despite Bible verses that perversely describe that deity as a god of love--- and yes, I have indeed heard such Christian teaching time and time again on street corners and elsewhere, as well as on my front porch as I described in the post you've referenced. You, Wee Flea (like my three door-step prosetelyzers did), appear to imagine that belief (or "faith") accomplished through intimidation and threats of eternal punishment is a manifestation of divine "love." I don't---and that's the burden you carry as a true believer, Sir, trying to convince others that they should perceive your God according to your benign interpretation of scripture. Unfortunately for your efforts, your arguments obviously aren't convincing many readers here.

355. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #52608 by Lauregon on June 27, 2007 at 1:11 pm

The science aspect is indisputably of great importance in the matter of theism and the Bible, but at a far more elemental level, it seems to me that True Believers are frantically trying to sell a broken down, rusted-out used car as an absolutely indispensble latest model luxury vehicle. Who can explain here why thinking people of the 21st century should be expected (let alone required) to venerate and worship an allegedly omniscient and omnipotent almighty deity whose temperment and behaviors far too often resemble those of a narcissistic, swaggering, organized- crime boss?

356. The Stupidity of Fox News is Truly Beyond Belief

Comment #52369 by Lauregon on June 26, 2007 at 9:51 pm

Amazing to realize there are people who voluntarily choose to watch such drivelish pap on a regular basis. And that priest? Is he some type of mold-injected, pull-string Mattel action figure?

357. Look Forward to Anger

Comment #52309 by Lauregon on June 26, 2007 at 5:19 pm

The excuses were based on the best information at the time. - Mind Rebel

Uh, no. The weapons inspectors said there were no WMDs. Not liking their conclusions, Bush pulled them out then launched shock and awe warfare on the entire nation of Iraq.

Saddam was evil, and need to be removed. Lay off the straw men. - Mind Rebel

Men being evil isn't sufficient cause to launch shock and awe warfare against an entire nation of already beseiged people.


It's one thing to talk tough, it's another thing to stand up and actually do something. - Mind Rebel

It's one thing to talk tough. "Bring 'em on," comes to mind. It's quite another to do something wise, principled, reasoned, and intelligent.

358. God Hates the World

Comment #52155 by Lauregon on June 26, 2007 at 11:20 am

You can't criticise fundamentalists of your own faith, without having the guts to step away from the scriptures you're both using. It's their textbook, but it's just your CliffsNotes. - Robert Maynard


Cunningly put!

359. God Hates the World

Comment #52150 by Lauregon on June 26, 2007 at 11:00 am

83. Lauregon joins in the chorous of affirmation for the atheist doctrine that anyone who takes Christian teaching seriously must de facto be a lunatic nut job psychopathic fanatic. Good job, Dr Dawkins, you are really helping promote discussion and understanding! - Wee Flea

A few years ago, Wee Flea, two teen-agers from a local Christian high school came to my door as missionaries threatening me with an eternity of torment in hell if I didn't accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. They expressed the very same ideas as those displayed in this "God Hates the World" musicale you're so upset to see posted on this forum. When I made a firm and reasoned refusal to be intimidated by their threats, they left and came back the next week with their teacher and tried again, unsuccessfully. All three finally left my front porch looking shaken and pale. (I even offered them the use of my personal library). At one point I asked the girl apostle how she'd feel if her (hypothetical) best friend were to arrive at the gates of heaven hoping to enter but be sent to hell instead for wrong or non-belief. The girl's answer: "I wouldn't know about it so it wouldn't matter."

You're kidding yourself, Wee Flea, if you imagine such theologizing is some aberrant form of Christian faith. Time and time again I've heard such prosetylizing on street corners. Time and time again I've come across publications that spread the same bad news. You may try to insist that such ideas are a misrepresentation of true faith, but the awful fact is that "faith" is faith. You'd have us believe that your version of Christian "faith" is the true one, but so did those Christians who came to my door and threatened me with an eternity of suffering in the fires of hell if I didn't accept their "faith" as the only true one.

This stuff comes from the Bible, Wee Flea, and forms the foundation for much of Christian "faith," like it or not. I for one got tired pretty quickly of trying to swallow Christian "faith" whole, and later, got tired, inch by inch, of the dishonesty and equivocation and the cherry-picking that's necessary for "moderate" Christian "faith." Step by step I grew out of belief in Christian orthodoxy, and am not the least bit sorry.

360. God Hates the World

Comment #51981 by Lauregon on June 25, 2007 at 7:21 pm

3. Angieruns thinks that this is evidence that Christians do not serve a loving god. -Wee Flea

This musical treatment you object so vigorously to seeing posted on this site, Wee Flea, is simply Christian doctrine taken very, very seriously: God, in the first place---as the story goes---hates the world for its "sinfulness," and, in the second place, hates (perhaps even more) those who reject belief in the supernatural doctrines posited by Christian orthodoxy which offer "forgiveness of sins" bought by means of the death by hideous torture of the alleged "only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ."

Only those who see nothing horrifically wrong or grossly immoral in such a "God" can call the God of Christian faith "loving."

361. The infinite wisdom of Richard Dawkins

Comment #51775 by Lauregon on June 24, 2007 at 9:56 pm

<> John Allemang

"Shrill and insensitive," eh? In other words, Dawkins' arguments against supernatural beliefs are too carefully reasoned for believers to rebut successfully!

I, for one, am continually impressed by how thoroughly civil and conciliatory Dawkins is with those he debates, interviews, and is interviewed by. I've never experienced him as being shrill or insensitive.

362. An Inquisition in science's name

Comment #51102 by Lauregon on June 21, 2007 at 1:26 pm

Many profess to believe something "spiritual" resides not only in every human, but also in animals, rocks, and trees - by your lights, an unscientific notion. - Preston Manning


Perhaps Mr Manning doesn't realize that people who've held such animistic beliefs have been found by believers of his "lights" to be pagans and heathens, and as such, as subjects to be converted to the One True Faith by one evil means or other even worse ones. Or, is Mr Manning suggesting that animism is now part of Christian orthodoxy?

363. The root of all evil?

Comment #43725 by Lauregon on May 22, 2007 at 11:10 am

Chadvader, the fact is that the nobleman is said often by many to represent God/Jesus, and the God/Jesus depicted in the parable is greedy, ruthless, unjust, and murderous. Such a view leads some true believers to see killing non-believers in God's name as virtuous. These are people, by the way, who long for the Second Coming and the slaughter of non-believers by God.

364. The root of all evil?

Comment #43713 by Lauregon on May 22, 2007 at 10:46 am

Luke 19:27 is part of a parable about a mean man.
It in no way promotes violence. Please keep things in context.


The King in the parable of the gold coins has often been declared to me by believers to represent God/Jesus, and used as justification for scenarios of the righteous destruction of non-believers.

On the other hand, some people say that Jesus was using the parable to illustrate the evilness of the economic system of the day (as depicted by the King). So, on the one hand "A," and on the other hand, "B"?

Bleahh. I've come to think it's usually a waste of time to argue biblical interpretations. In the end, believers of every stripe will see in the Bible what their temperments lead them to see, which is why Dawkins and Harris are, for the most part, correct in their denunciations of religion.

365. Freethinking Ruins All Things

Comment #42550 by Lauregon on May 18, 2007 at 11:33 am

"Freethinking can only desecrate, despoil and ruin. It can create nothing, because it has no vision of the Good, and it will always be judged as wanting on account of this."


"No vision of the "Good?" Bulloney. The god of religious doctrines is not "Good." Freethinkers see that and declare such alleged "Good" to be severely wanting---much to the sputtering outrage of true believers.

366. Brazil's Indians Offended by Pope Comments

Comment #41691 by Lauregon on May 16, 2007 at 3:29 pm

I suspect the indigenous people of South America were "longing for Christianity" just like Iraqis were longing for shock-and-awe warfare to be waged against them.

367. Thought vs. feeling in religion

Comment #41609 by Lauregon on May 16, 2007 at 11:47 am

Re: CheGuevera1970 Post #41592

It seems that for most if not all believers it's not enough to accept and believe in the better teachings of Jesus as reported in the Bible. I've debated at length with supposedly "liberal" Christians who argue that the real message of the Gospel is "love," who insist and agree that living according to the Sermon On the Mount is what REALLY matters, but somehow can't begin to imagine letting go of supernatural doctrines without falling into an abyss of immorality and evil, and thus, will fiercely and endlessly defend supernatural beliefs.

368. Thought vs. feeling in religion

Comment #41596 by Lauregon on May 16, 2007 at 11:30 am

Seems to me Carrol did indeed claim that religion explains the mysteries of life. Reading his second and third sentences, my reaction to them was "Oh, PLEASE!" On the other hand, I was glad to see a Catholic speak against the Pope's antagonism toward liberation theology. The Pope's recent address in Brazil left me sputtering and shouting futilely at my New York Times. Bendict saying that material conditions of the here and now aren't "reality" while a supernatural "God" is, infuriated me and sent me into a tirade (with my husband as a captive audience) against the hypocrisy of a Pope living in material splendor making making such absurd pronouncements to impoverished people---or to anyone, for that matter.

369. World's most prominent atheist takes on the Biblical God (and other topics)

Comment #39330 by Lauregon on May 10, 2007 at 10:23 am

Mush and muck. How can anyone take such people seriously? Bleaggh!

370. Intellectual Diversity or Intellectual Insult?

Comment #39318 by Lauregon on May 10, 2007 at 10:06 am

Harlon (#39017), I didn't say you were conservative. I said that college isn't the place to go to be reinforced in the sectarian conservative views of one's parents or church.

As for historical perspectives and differing views, it's a fact that the earth isn't flat, despite what people believed centuries ago (and many today apparently still do).

As for "teach, don't mock," it's advice you might want to try out yourself.

371. Better God-fearing than sneering

Comment #39021 by Lauregon on May 9, 2007 at 6:54 pm

Evangelicals may claim the New Testament establishes a "new covenant" that supplants the savagery of the Old Testament with the gospel of love, but the orthodox Christian doctrine of personal salvation vicariously achieved through the crucifixion of Jesus is fully premised upon the savage God described in the Old Testament.

372. Intellectual Diversity or Intellectual Insult?

Comment #39015 by Lauregon on May 9, 2007 at 6:27 pm

Harlon57 wrote: When I was going to college, any class that discussed politics was openly hostile to conservative classmates. Even the professors would make disparaging remarks about the conservatives.


College isn't the place to be reinforced in sectarian conservative ideas held by one's parents and churches.

373. Atheists go on the political offensive in God-fearing US

Comment #38016 by Lauregon on May 6, 2007 at 5:08 pm

Hi. I'm new here but have been lurking for a few weeks. I too hope Bizarro Dawkins will explain both the specific reason for his gastric unease, and what it is about his Christianity that makes him feel intellectually fulfilled.

BTW, I was delighted yesterday to see a woman in Borders asking for, being directed to, and having found a copy of "The God Delusion."