351. Comic in US 'hate speech' row

Comment #45019 by MelM on May 25, 2007 at 7:44 pm

I found this video well done, right on the mark, and in good taste. The claim of "racism" comes up all the time when attacking Islam and I'm very worried about "should not be allowed" comments by officials. I'm a resident and have a draft of an angry email I'm sending. It ends with:

It must be remembered that any criticism is only a few logical fallacies away from being called "hate speech" by someone. Who do you want making those decisions for you? Who do want to have all that power? Maybe someone who confuses a religion with a race? (Islam is a religion, not a race.)

That the City of Berkeley has embaressed itself like this is disgusting and, in today's climate of controversy, very worrisome. I DO NOT WANT BERKELEY STARTING ANY CAMPAIGN TO MAKE HATE SPEECH A CRIME.

352. Penn & Teller's Bullshit - Holier Than Thou With Christopher Hitchens

Comment #44964 by MelM on May 25, 2007 at 5:14 pm

I urge Hitchens to complete his estimate of faith by proclaiming that "Faith is a vice." He almost says it but not quite; it needs to be said and it's a short, provocative summary of a central issue.

353. Adam and Eve in the Land of the Dinosaurs

Comment #44940 by MelM on May 25, 2007 at 3:58 pm

For those not gloating over what they're convinced is the destruction of the U.S., here's an opinion piece from the Louisville, Kentucky Courier Journal: Scientific fraud masked as religion. "Parents should be ready to bring lawsuits for any school system that uses public funds to bring students to this museum of misinformation." Gol-LY, a hard hitting opinion piece in a hick state like Kentucky!

For those wanting to save the U.S., here's something to do: join the RALLY FOR REASON.

NCSE has a Statement of Concern which may be signed if you are a scientist (faculty or post-doctoral level) from IN, KY, or OH.

354. Angry atheists are hot authors

Comment #44475 by MelM on May 24, 2007 at 10:47 pm

And, if Falwell wasn't enough to make one angry, try Fred Phelps--actually, I think this video is hilarious: Jerry Falwell Split Hell Wide Open. (Select a player on the lower right.)

355. Angry atheists are hot authors

Comment #44457 by MelM on May 24, 2007 at 9:12 pm

Harsh rhetoric from religion is at fault? Nope. Blame these instead:

• Dominionism (see Kingdom Coming)


• Creationism in the schools


• Wingnut "science" museums


• Screwing up American history. (I'm reading Liars for Jesus now.)
  
• Court stripping attempts


• Breaking down the wall of separation


• Trying to end abortion


• Attacking Oregon's "Death With Dignity Act"


• The "Bible Literacy" Trojan horses


• Anti stem cell research


• Giving away government money for Christian charity


• Rediculous promotion of sexual abstinence


• The promotion of senseless prattle
  

356. Liberty U student plotted to set off explosives, police say

Comment #44216 by MelM on May 23, 2007 at 5:45 pm

I haven't seen anything about Fred Phelps being at the funeral. Phelps has a priceless video rant at: Jerry Falwell Split Hell Wide Open. According to Phelps, Jerry went to hell. This is a really funny video; don't miss it!

357. Hitchens on Falwell, Part 2

Comment #43806 by MelM on May 22, 2007 at 6:02 pm

358. Hitchens on Falwell, Part 2

Comment #43786 by MelM on May 22, 2007 at 4:24 pm

359. A meeting of unlike minds

Comment #43491 by MelM on May 21, 2007 at 6:23 pm

Missing page.

The article available through the link contains a third page not included in the above text. It's worth a read.

360. A meeting of unlike minds

Comment #43487 by MelM on May 21, 2007 at 5:43 pm

I think this is part of Hitchens' "march through the South." On the Charlie Rose show recently, he mentioned that his book tour was going into the South and that he had challenged any and all holy men to debate. He said that he had plenty of takers.

361. Cult leader sparks Sikh riots with 'guru' stunt

Comment #43484 by MelM on May 21, 2007 at 5:20 pm

His supporters rejected accusations that he was trying to impersonate the guru. But yesterday police filed a complaint against the sect's leader for hurting religious sentiment, a charge often used in a country where religious differences regularly set off violence.

362. Catholic Church Reconsiders Limbo

Comment #43211 by MelM on May 20, 2007 at 8:55 pm

I have to admit that it wasn't until the Swiffer line that I cought on--or was it the Freemason line; I've forgotten.

363. Catholic Church Reconsiders Limbo

Comment #43208 by MelM on May 20, 2007 at 8:34 pm

Not so fast. It seems that they don't know but have hope. Quote from: The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die Without Being Baptized

3.6. Hope [concluding section]
102. Within the hope that the church bears for the whole of humanity and wants to proclaim afresh to the world of today, is there a hope for the salvation of infants who die without baptism? We have carefully reconsidered this complex question with gratitude and respect for the responses that have been given through the history of the church, but also with an awareness that it falls to us to give a coherent response for today. Reflecting within the one tradition of faith that unites the church through the ages and relying utterly on the guidance of the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus promised would lead his followers "into all the truth" (Jn 16:13), we have sought to read the signs of the times and to interpret them in the light of the Gospel.

Our conclusion is that the many factors that we have considered above give serious theological and liturgical grounds for hope that unbaptized infants who die will be saved and enjoy the beatific vision. We emphasize that these are reasons for prayerful hope, rather than grounds for sure knowledge. There is much that simply has not been revealed to us (cf. Jn 16:12). We live by faith and hope in the God of mercy and love who has been revealed to us in Christ, and the Spirit moves us to pray in constant thankfulness and joy (cf. 1 Thes 5:18).

103. What has been revealed to us is that the ordinary way of salvation is by the sacrament of baptism. None of the above considerations should be taken as qualifying the necessity of baptism or justifying delay in administering the sacrament.135 Rather, as we want to reaffirm in conclusion, they provide strong grounds for hope that God will save infants when we have not been able to do for them what we would have wished to do, namely, to baptize them into the faith and life of the church.

364. Evolution Opponent Is in Line for Schools Post

Comment #43177 by MelM on May 20, 2007 at 3:51 pm

There's a post at Pandas Thumb. Patricia Princehouse has a couple of comments.

365. The Paradoxical Hatred of Christopher Hitchens

Comment #43091 by MelM on May 20, 2007 at 1:55 pm

Hitchens is just soooo intolerant. Can't imagine why. Unless it's mentalities like this: Woman: Blame devil for infant in microwave.


I'm not against intellectual intolerance; I'm against absurdity. Intellectual tolerance of falsehood--if one cares about a better world--is immoral.

Cheer up, the universe is not haunted!

366. Freethinking Ruins All Things

Comment #42645 by MelM on May 18, 2007 at 10:04 pm

Nonthinking (of which religion is a subset) ruins everything. Faith is a vice!

367. Television evangelist Falwell dies at 73

Comment #42637 by MelM on May 18, 2007 at 8:16 pm

"WBC to picket the funeral of Rev. Jerry Falwell - at Thomas Road Baptist Church, Lynchburg, Virginia"

Reaching way back into ancient sitcom history for something appropiate, I have to say: "What a revolting development this is."

368. Hitchens on Falwell

Comment #42612 by MelM on May 18, 2007 at 4:06 pm

Hamas's "solution" is theological.
I'd like to add one comment about Hitchens take on the Israeli-Palestinian issue. I know of the wingnut Jews he mentioned, but, it's also true that Hamas turns this dispute into a religious dispute. Hamas wants the end of Israel for theological reasons. I think Israel can handle her wingnuts but Hamas will not quit.(I know of an Israeli site that's trying to combat Jewish fundamentalism.)

There is no solution. 1938 won't work.
In the last year, I've come around to the conclusion that, at this time, there can be no solution. Even if the Palestinians got a state, it would only be a launch pad for more war against Israel. People believe that appeasing Islam on the Palestinian issue will take the heat off the world. It won't. I now see the idea of an Israel-Palestinian peace as a pure farce and a joke. Anyway, when I look at the Islamic madness in the region, I have decided that Israel is by far the better country and should be supported against Islamic totalitarianism. So, don't think that recycling 1938 will do us any good; it would just be more proof to the jihadis that they can win a world jihad.

369. Television evangelist Falwell dies at 73

Comment #41312 by MelM on May 15, 2007 at 9:27 pm

"ELLEN JOHNSON, President of American Atheists issued the following statement this afternoon regarding the death of televangelist Jerry Falwell."
http://www.atheists.org/

A well done statement.

370. Furor over author Ayaan Hirsi Ali's visit stirs debate on religious freedom

Comment #40700 by MelM on May 14, 2007 at 5:58 pm

A reality oriented independent minded Ayaan Hirsi Ali is thought worthy of a death sentence by a pathetic dogmatist. A moral inversion? I think so!

371. Atheism in America

Comment #40688 by MelM on May 14, 2007 at 5:14 pm

Chuck Smalkowski:

"Their wicked. I'm tellin' ya their wicked."

372. Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off

Comment #40041 by MelM on May 12, 2007 at 7:43 pm

Another approach to debunking Comfort's "creator" argument:

Begging the Question being used.
He used a premise which itself requires support, namely, "existence is a creation." This is a rather huge statement to put forward as if it's obvious, which is what Comfort did. Knowing that something has a creator is logically prior to knowing that it is a creation and using this as a premise in any argument. Temporally, the two pieces of knowledge would come into existence at the same time. Since "existence is a creation" presupposes that it had a creator, Comfort's argument is using the "begging the question" fallacy.
http://www.onegoodmove.org/fallacy/begging.htm

Equivocation being used.
I think Comfort is just using the fact that everyone has heard the term "creation" used to refer to the universe many many times and we've gotten into the sloppy habit of treating the terms as synonomous. I think Comfort is getting some advantage from the fallacy of "equivocation" as well.
http://www.onegoodmove.org/fallacy/equiv.htm

If someone can see a hole in this, your comment is welcome.

373. Lou Dobbs w/ Hitchens on Al Sharpton's Bigoted Remark

Comment #39426 by MelM on May 10, 2007 at 3:20 pm

An ally against theocracy?
I think it's great that Dobbs is concerned, from a secular point of view, about the separation of church and state. I don't know much about him, but if he has a significant audience, then it would seem that he'll be of help in trying to save us from a theocracy.

An atheist doing the analysis instead of a holy man!
Dobbs also gave Hitchens plenty of time; Hitchens was able to use this little spat to make a more general attack against religion. I don't think Dobbs objected to one word from Hitchens. Towards the end, it was really nice to see Hitchens work his way to "religion poisons everything." Could we dare hope that an atheist would become Dobbs' "subject expert" (at least some times) on matters religious?

Lastly, Hitchens got more promotion for his book. I see that it's #3 on Amazon but that the ship time is "1 to 3 weeks" and they don't say "In stock". Maybe Amazon has run out of stock already?

374. Lou Dobbs w/ Hitchens on Al Sharpton's Bigoted Remark

Comment #39406 by MelM on May 10, 2007 at 2:26 pm

As the wall of separation comes down and public policy and the public square come under religious control, sectarian fighting will become worse. If there is power to legislate according to religious ideas, people have no choice but to gang up to defend themselves from other gangs and/or gain supremacy of yet others.

375. Londonistan Calling

Comment #39016 by MelM on May 9, 2007 at 6:33 pm

He was a conspicuous figure because, having lost the use of an eye and both hands in an exchange of views in Afghanistan, he sported an opaque eye plus a hook to theatrical effect.

376. Atheist offers to send letters post-Rapture

Comment #39001 by MelM on May 9, 2007 at 5:55 pm

Need sample letters? Just check these out.
http://www.raptureready.com/leftbehind/rr-left-behind.html

The site is priceless:
http://www.raptureready.com/index.php

Barking mad? I think so!

377. Atheist offers to send letters post-Rapture

Comment #38993 by MelM on May 9, 2007 at 5:40 pm

How about a bumper sticker:
"WARNING: Driver could rapture at any time. Keep a safe distance."

378. Atheist offers to send letters post-Rapture

Comment #38991 by MelM on May 9, 2007 at 5:31 pm

An atheist U.S. president would help keep the country going after rapture.

379. Better God-fearing than sneering

Comment #38671 by MelM on May 8, 2007 at 11:07 pm

I haven't seen a good list of all the prohibitions of religion that have brought misery to human life rather than "comfort."
No divorce.
No condoms.
No abortion.
...
And wasn't religion against anesthetic and lots of other technological advances? I've seen lots of these things before but have forgotten the details. Anyway, in some debates, the atheists have been weak about going after these kinds of assertions. Nobody "needs" falsehood; it brings a lot of discomfort to human life because acting in contradiction to facts will bring discomfort. We all learned this when we touched a hot stove or tried to jump off a roof with an umbrella.

Then again, one might ask how many got comfort from religion while they were under the boot of some tyrant. I think the truth would have made them far less comfy and more likely to revolt. Seek your comfort in facts and not in myths; the whole point in ending religion is to live according to reality instead of falsehoods.

380. A conversation with journalist Christopher Hitchens

Comment #38635 by MelM on May 8, 2007 at 9:24 pm

FYI

The first 17min is about Iraq. The last 11min is about the book. (If CR thinks a quest has anything important to say about Iraq, he'll be sure to go after it.)

381. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton: A Debate God Is Not Great

Comment #38626 by MelM on May 8, 2007 at 7:53 pm

Continued from: Comment #38621 by MelM

Interesting how Sharpton got rid of the unwanted baggage: 1st to go was religious people, then the holy books, and finally, the theologians (except for one). What was left was just Sharpton's very very personal god.
------------------------------------------------

I don't think Hitchens had a counter to Sharpton's assertions about order in the universe. I think all he'd have to say is that the order we see is from things acting according to cause and effect because of their characterists. We observe this every day and count on it every second. Science has begun discovering these laws; God isn't needed at all here. If Sharpton were to ask about "where the laws come from", "existence" or "reality." would suffice as an answer in the context of a debate. At least a short (philosophical) answer is required to shut the door to theology. I think it's important to remember that the source of everything is "reality"; there is nothing else.

382. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton: A Debate God Is Not Great

Comment #38621 by MelM on May 8, 2007 at 7:28 pm

Sharpton seemed to disown the holy books, but, at the same time, believe that God was the source of ethics. But, the ethics (how to live one's life) is in the holy books. He escaped this trap by claiming that ethics was inate (planted by God though.) How nasty of God to plant quite different ethics across the the surface of the planet. His personal "experience" basis for his belief in God coupled with the subjective nature of his ethics is a deeply irrational approach and one that I don't recall hearing about (so explicitly) before. Escape into one's unknowable (to others) mental life as a form of debate, wow! (It's slick though; believing in holy books and doing evil things isn't God's work--no, no.) Anyway, I think Hitchens would have done better if he'd gone after Sharpton about his "personal experience of God". I think the theology here is worth a second listen just to make sure I've got a firm grasp of how it works.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali showing up at the end was a pleasant surprise. (I guess most know that a U.S. iman recently decided she deserves to be put on trial in an Islamic country and put to death.)

383. Massive explosion is brightest-ever supernova

Comment #38576 by MelM on May 8, 2007 at 4:33 pm

From Space.com story:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070507_brighest_sn.html

Stars this massive are extremely rare: Scientists estimate there are only a dozen or so such stars in the Milky Way's stellar population of 400 billion.

Despite its relatively close proximity to us, Eta Carinae's death is not likely to pose any significant threat to life on Earth, scientists say.

If Eta Carinae were to blow up like SN 2006gy, we'd definitely notice it, said David Pooley, the Berkeley astronomer who was in charge of Chandra's observations.

"It would be so bright that you could see it during the day, and you could even read a book by its light at night," Pooley told reporters

384. The torture of the grave Islam and the afterlife

Comment #38091 by MelM on May 7, 2007 at 12:28 am

It's hard to believe but some religious guy (a person of faith) invented this stuff and was quite pleased with himself. He just made it all up!

385. Unholy row at clergy soccer game

Comment #38082 by MelM on May 6, 2007 at 11:47 pm

Well, I'm glad the women raised hell. To have been excluded just to indulge the irrational superstitions of Islam would have been disgusting in the extreme; that the church was willing to go along with the plan is truely disturbing--what could they have been thinking?

Mr Fykse Tveit:
Both sides have learned to better understand our cultures and we have had an open discussion.

386. Those fanatical atheists

Comment #38071 by MelM on May 6, 2007 at 10:50 pm

It's the tone in "Jesus Camp" that I'm worried about, not Dawkins' tone. Someone want to infiltrate some churches and record the "tones" found? Dawkins can't even come close to these guys! (And I'm glad.)

387. Those fanatical atheists

Comment #38067 by MelM on May 6, 2007 at 10:34 pm

It should also be obvious from this that the supposed link between Dawkinsian atheism and Stalinist butchery is pure nonsense. Yes, Stalin did not believe in God. But he believed in History, Marxism, Leninism and all sorts of Hegelian mumbo-jumbo for which he had not the slightest evidence.

He was not a religious man, but he most certainly was a man of faith.

388. Atheists go on the political offensive in God-fearing US

Comment #38009 by MelM on May 6, 2007 at 4:23 pm

In other good news, Hitchens is taking his book promotion into the South. He'll debate any holy man that wants to debate. (He appeared on Charlie Rose Fri. night.) Yes, we really need to put religion into remission. If not, there is a "Kingdom Coming." (now in paperback) See the book: http://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Coming-Rise-Christian-Nationalism/dp/0393329763/ref=sr_1_1/104-7079336-6081544?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178492792&sr=1-1

Cheer up, the Universe isn't haunted.

389. God Exists. A Formula Proves it.

Comment #37810 by MelM on May 5, 2007 at 7:37 pm

Today, KCTV. Tomorrow, Time Magazine.

390. God Exists. A Formula Proves it.

Comment #37787 by MelM on May 5, 2007 at 5:24 pm

From Victor Stenger at Comment #37734 by Beth

Those that Omega-God deems deserving will get to live even better lives, including lots of sex with the most desirable partners we can imagine. Even this Tipler places on a mathematical basis, computing the relative "psychological impact" of meeting the most beautiful women whose existence is logically possible compared to simply the most beautiful woman in the world. He finds this to be [log1010^1,000,000]/[log1010^9] = 100,000 (p. 257).

391. My response to the GOP evolution question

Comment #37778 by MelM on May 5, 2007 at 4:43 pm

Nice video! What CD is the music from?

I did not know that chattel slavery still existed. Here's a link I found recently.
http://www.iabolish.org/index.html

Actually, slavery seems to have been mostly killed by the Enlightenment. Point for our side I think.

392. Republican candidates range from ignorant to dishonest

Comment #37558 by MelM on May 4, 2007 at 10:56 pm

OT.

Hitchens will be on Charlie Rose tonight (May 4)
If you can't catch it tonight, the video will be available soon on the Charlie Rose site.
http://www.charlierose.com/home

393. Lou Dobbs Interviews Christopher Hitchens

Comment #37555 by MelM on May 4, 2007 at 10:52 pm

Hey! Hitchens will be on Charlie Rose tonight (May 4) Bill Maher will also be on. From the order listed, it looks like Hitchens will be after Maher. If you can't catch it tonight, the video will be available soon on the Charlie Rose site.
http://www.charlierose.com/home

394. Republican candidates range from ignorant to dishonest

Comment #37552 by MelM on May 4, 2007 at 10:24 pm

Perhaps we could make a case that both the president and vice-president should be atheists because this would keep the country going in the event of rapture.

Anyone who still thinks the Dominionists arn't very dangerous should read "Kingdom Coming" by Michelle Goldburg.
http://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Coming-Rise-Christian-Nationalism/dp/0393329763/ref=sr_1_1/104-7079336-6081544?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178341700&sr=1-1

395. Lou Dobbs Interviews Christopher Hitchens

Comment #37536 by MelM on May 4, 2007 at 7:14 pm

Re: #37532 by briancoughlanworldcitizen

Nice job! The 6000 years of benefits from religion was great. But, ouch, as I posted just above, even chattel slavery isn't elminated yet. Fact is that there are places on this planet where the last 300 years of enlightenment have hardly penetrated. They have neither reason nor freedom and really suck. Makes one wonder what a world dominated by the Ken Ham's and the Islamists would look like. Irrationalism is freakin' lethal.

Oh, and nice music.

396. Lou Dobbs Interviews Christopher Hitchens

Comment #37530 by MelM on May 4, 2007 at 6:37 pm

Speaking of slavery, I thought I'd pass on a recently found link to an organization that (I understand) is actually buying the freedom of slaves for emancipation. I had no idea that plain old chattel slavery still existed in the world.
http://www.iabolish.org/index.html

397. Lou Dobbs Interviews Christopher Hitchens

Comment #37522 by MelM on May 4, 2007 at 6:09 pm

Re: #37513 by RickM

Yes. "...new Enlightenment...". I'm sure that's right. Don't know why I couldn't hear it before.
Thanks!

I was reading some materail about the Scottish Enlightenment last week. The University of Edinburgh and the Lunar Society of Birmingham etc. What an amazing collection of talent! And there's the Scot, William Small, who had a great influence on Jefferson. I don't know how much reading I'll want to do on this period but a book I found on Amazon about the Lunar Society looks like a "must have" book just for fun. Frankly, it looks like we've lost the spirit of the Enlightenment; maybe reading about it would help understand what it was like and help to bring it back.
http://www.amazon.com/Lunar-Men-Friends-Curiosity-Changed/dp/0374194408/ref=ed_oe_h/104-7079336-6081544?ie=UTF8&qid=1177542288&sr=1-1

398. Lou Dobbs Interviews Christopher Hitchens

Comment #37511 by MelM on May 4, 2007 at 5:13 pm

I like what Hitchens says about religion and I approve of his anger. I watched the "Free Speech" video again yesterday and noted some of the most eloquent anger I've ever seen. Once one has identified an outrage, then one should be angry and it needs to be expressed in the appropriate contexts.

Drop "Chimps" and "frontal lobes"
But, I wish he'd drop the "Chimp" business and the "frontal lobe" business. These are implicitly anti-reason; they say "we can't help it" but the whole point of writing books and trying to get people to think is that "we can help it." Certainly, after the 18th Century Enlightenment, there's no grounds anymore for saying "we can't help it." Before then, superstition and tyranny was almost everywhere and the idea that mankind would stay that way forever would seem plausible.

Anyway, I think "Chimps" and "lobes" are unwarrented and undercut his message. We'd better be able to "help it"; our freedom and even our lives are at stake here.

399. Author of the Year Ad

Comment #37502 by MelM on May 4, 2007 at 4:37 pm

I just wandered over to Amazon.com (U.S.). TGD has 732 customer reviews!

400. Lou Dobbs Interviews Christopher Hitchens

Comment #37494 by MelM on May 4, 2007 at 4:08 pm

At the end, Dobbs says "...you call for ???? enlightenment..." I've tried several times and can't make out what was said. Anybody know what this is about?

Yes, a nice interview. Other spots that would help the cause:
>The C-Span early morning show. One-on-one for a long time and some viewer call-in questions.
>The Charlie Rose show on PBS. This could be a half hour or even a whole hour.
>The News Hour on PBS. He would get a nice long segment but the book would have to stir up a lot of dust first (I think).
>One of the late night comedy shows. (One had Julia Sweeny on last year.) There would be a few jokes but the basic tone would be serious and far far better than O'Reilly.
>Day time talk shows. I find these kind of dumb but they would most likely be better than O'Reilly.

One of the most difficult spots is a 5min debate on some news show; you get about 2.5min of talking time. I saw one guy do a pretty good job recently by using his time to say what he wanted to say and didn't "bite" on the crap his opponent was dumping.