351. Catholic leaders block contraceptive advice for 30,000 Scots girls

Comment #233276 by J Mac on August 19, 2008 at 3:36 pm

"Actually, I guess we can open him up and prod areas of the brain until the god shuts up. Maybe if, instead of prodding we probe, we can hear the god... "

Isn't that the idea of education? Prod the brain until the delusions go away?

352. A flea we missed?

Comment #233273 by J Mac on August 19, 2008 at 3:31 pm

What a fuck-nut. I know there are a lot of fuck-nuts out there, but how did this moron get a book published.

I've been trying to read some of that looking for his argument... kept looking... kept looking. Eventually I gave up.

Someone please tell me that that link is a joke or a farce on the real Robertson. I know he's a theist, but I'd hope that to be published one would still need more sense than he showed.

353. A flea we missed?

Comment #233268 by J Mac on August 19, 2008 at 3:26 pm

Brian, I'm checking out that link. Just read the line in his letter to RD:

"And of course you have stated that you do not discuss with ‘fundamentalists’ or those who would be stupid enough to disagree with you."

Has RD every said that? Odd, I've seen him in countless debates with people who disagree with him. I'm curious, is Robertson just pulling this out of his ass? Not really wise to misquote someone when you are writing a letter TO them.

It amazes me that he managed to publish a book with that level of irresponsibility.

354. Daniel Dennett's Darwinian Mind: An Interview with a 'Dangerous' Man

Comment #233140 by J Mac on August 19, 2008 at 7:14 am

Santa is much nicer.

355. A flea we missed?

Comment #233125 by J Mac on August 19, 2008 at 6:50 am

Ok, I know I've said this facetiously, but I think it is worth serious thought:

Your actions and beliefs should not be so easily swayed by anything other than evidence for or against various ideas. The fact that one person can have such an impact, that in their absence everyone does a "bit of a turn" as core put it is sad. Using someone else as a scapegoat for one's own weak-mindedness is pathetic.

Sounds an awful lot like "the devil made me do it."

356. No credit for creationism

Comment #233104 by J Mac on August 19, 2008 at 6:21 am

Jesus:

A theory is merely a testable model. A testable model can be incredibly facile, as many theories surely are. Such as your theory that a theory has to be a well-founded and elaborate scientific model to count as a theory.

Some scientific explanations are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them. The explanation becomes a scientific theory. In everyday language a theory means a hunch or speculation. Not so in science. In science, the word theory refers to a comprehensive explanation of an important feature of nature that is supported by many facts gathered over time.

ID, at least in its best form, IS a testable model

357. No credit for creationism

Comment #233099 by J Mac on August 19, 2008 at 6:06 am

I think Tyson has the best discussion of ID I've seen yet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV1r4fxaZsE&feature=related
-and-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YotBtibsuh0&feature=related

358. Daniel Dennett's Darwinian Mind: An Interview with a 'Dangerous' Man

Comment #233097 by J Mac on August 19, 2008 at 6:02 am

Equivocal, RE: avatar

If you haven't had an answer yet:

1)Click on your name in the upper right corner of the home page (or log in first if your name isn't there).
2)Click "User Control Panel" near the upper left
3)Profile Tab ->Edit avatar side-tab

359. Catholic leaders block contraceptive advice for 30,000 Scots girls

Comment #232852 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 6:06 pm

No wonder the working girls always give me a discount.

360. Daniel Dennett's Darwinian Mind: An Interview with a 'Dangerous' Man

Comment #232847 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 5:53 pm

"After halfway through, it still seemed as if he spent most of the book so far trying to justify why he had the right to address the topic he was eventually theoretically going to get around to writing about at some point. I was halfway through the book and it felt like the entire book so far was still just a preamble to itself."

Funny this is exactly how I felt in reading RD's Extended Phenotype. Three quarters of the way through there were still lines saying what he WILL argue for in the book.

Lots of information none-the-less, and well worthwhile, but very odd style.

361. Catholic leaders block contraceptive advice for 30,000 Scots girls

Comment #232845 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 5:48 pm

Wow, that quote (of goldy's) displays a complete ignorance of human behavior.

The morning AFTER pill.... increases vulnerability to unwanted sex?

Its reverse causality, who woulda' thunk it.

Yes, of course I realize that they mean that having the option would make people not take sex seriously. But seriously, what horny teenager is sitting in the back of their parents car with their significant other weighing over the options thinking "well, there is that morning after pill, so what the hell, let'me get pregnant."

362. A flea we missed?

Comment #232842 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 5:43 pm

RE Laurie's post:

3. There's nothing wrong with coming into one of those cliquey conversations and saying "Let's get back on topic; consider this."

363. A flea we missed?

Comment #232829 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 5:08 pm

Well it would fit the bill. A place for off topic chat, venting, etc. If the comments section is our class room that can be the playground... we're all kids at heart. Laurie you can swing on the monkey bars, kkelly can sit in the corner eating sand, TWP can go around hitting all the boys with a big stick, diacanu can clim to the top of the jungle gym and scream at everyone...

364. A flea we missed?

Comment #232824 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 5:01 pm

Going back a ways:

I wonder if the site could better cope with this socialising aspect by making explicit provision for it, perhaps in a way that enhances the socilialising benefits? A permanently on, parallel "commentary" thread could be created perhaps where informal back-chat can be put?

365. A flea we missed?

Comment #232621 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 11:58 am

Well put Steve.

You are the exception I see here as you are able to elucidate what you see as a problem rather than just complaining aimlessly.

However it is an odd dichotomy to insist this site must be purely intellectual discourse, or pure nonsense which some may find humorous. Can't it be a bit of both?

I have been involved in many valuable conversations and debates on this site. However it's also fun to come here and unwind some times and just have a laugh with (relatively) like minded people.

I suppose I should not interfere with the discussion of a sincere concern over a perceived problem with the conduct on this site. But I for one do not see any such problem.

366. A flea we missed?

Comment #232615 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 11:53 am

It's nihilism to not give a shit about some stranger thousands of miles away being "rude" on an internet forum?

Wow, some definition.

Many things in this world concern me. That is not one of them.

367. A flea we missed?

Comment #232612 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 11:49 am

without doing anything to try fix the perceived problem makes you a cunt.

As boring as what you damn.

368. A flea we missed?

Comment #232606 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 11:39 am

Na, I'd rather not.

Perhaps implying that a lot of people here are weak minded is being a "cunt." If thats the case I'll take it as a compliment.

Some people need to grow some nerve and speak up for themselves regardless of what they think others might think, and if they can't, well fuck 'em.

369. A flea we missed?

Comment #232597 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 11:34 am

Huh?

What the hell do I agree with Core about? And how was I being a cunt about anything?

Not that I mind name calling, but I generally know what it's for.

370. After Bibles seized, U.S. group won't leave Chinese airport

Comment #232588 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 11:23 am

That being said however I think it was Lucas who made a very good point on the other side. If china doesn't allow proselytizing we have no right to interfere. It is their nation, and their laws. However I'm pretty sure Mr Klein is a chinese citizen (if he's the guy I met).

371. Daniel Dennett's Darwinian Mind: An Interview with a 'Dangerous' Man

Comment #232585 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 11:21 am

While there are many of his books I have yet to get through, so far Darwin's Dangerous Idea would be my recommended entry point, especially for a science teacher.

372. After Bibles seized, U.S. group won't leave Chinese airport

Comment #232583 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 11:19 am

Personally I feel a rational world view will win out over religion through a free exchange of ideas, education, and public access to relevant data. I don't think a religion should ever be censored (any more than any other publication). Criticized yes, insulted if you like, but not censored.

373. After Bibles seized, U.S. group won't leave Chinese airport

Comment #232573 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 11:06 am

"this group is clearly importing books for economic gain."

Actually they aren't. They bibles and the travel costs are donated, the bibles are given out freely.

If the government regulates the importation of books so be it. But if they would allow 300 comic books to be imported for free distribution I don't see the difference with bibles.

374. Daniel Dennett's Darwinian Mind: An Interview with a 'Dangerous' Man

Comment #232569 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 11:02 am

"cerebral celebrity"

Love it, Absolutely delicious.

However Dr Dennett if you read this... slow the hell down. Already starting another book on the subject? Damn, I'm still trying to catch up on reading those other ones.

Anyone who has not read his books absolutely should. Several of his books should be required reading for scientists.

Now, time to finish up on the computer and get back to reading "Consciousness Explained."

375. No credit for creationism

Comment #232558 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 10:55 am

I have yet to watch the video (I cant here, I will have to at home) but the line "CNN's Kara Finnstrom reports on a battle over how much religion is too much in Christian school curriculums."

What do these people not get, in a religion class there is no such thing as too much religion. In a science class ANY religion is too much.

376. Catholic leaders block contraceptive advice for 30,000 Scots girls

Comment #232554 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 10:53 am

"The Catholic Church originally raised objections to the jab on the grounds it could encourage promiscuity"

Yeah, and my tetanus shot is making me more likely to shove a rusty nail through my eye. How fucking ridiculous.

Although on the bright side this can be considered a partial victory, at least the vaccine is being provided.

377. After Bibles seized, U.S. group won't leave Chinese airport

Comment #232551 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 10:50 am

As much as I am against the spreading of religion I don't condone such regulation. Christians should be as free to print and distribute their fiction as any other fiction fan club. Ironically they could get it passed customs if they would admit it was fictional entertainment rather than religion.

Also I believe this Klein fellow is the same one I met a couple years ago. If it is the same man he is actually quite a wonderful man working on many positive changes in China.

378. Do subatomic particles have free will?

Comment #232545 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 10:43 am

Pythagorus,

"All of the spooky QM stuff goes away if you accept the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics."

That statement s very true, however I think it can also be very misleading for two reasons. First, just because an interpretation makes the "spooky stuff go away" in no way contributes to its truth value. Hell, some theists make that argument when talking of death and suffering and so on. Secondly, and I feel more importantly, the many worlds interpretation is not by any stretch the only interpretation to get rid of the 'spooky stuff'. There are MANY alternate interpretations, aka many alternate hypotheses - I call them hypotheses even though they are not yet testable in practice they are all testable in principle, hopefully someday in the future we will be able to find tests for them. Until we can test the hypotheses there are two approaches: first, that of the professional physicist which is not at all comforting to me of "Shut up, do the math, and don't worry about the spooky stuff" and second the application of parsimony. We can certainly look at the different interpretations and address which ones require the fewest assumptions, and while the counting and measuring of such assumptions is quite subjective in this realm it can make for interesting philosophical discourse.

Personally I have a strong aversion to any "randomness" based ideas such as the ensemble interpretations. I have been drawn to so-called "objective collapse" theories, unfortunately the most elucidated one proposed relies on Penrose's graviton limit, which when explored thoroughly is quite odd. I also find many worlds quite odd as it strikes me as throwing up ones hands and giving up.

If I were to take up ground in one camp it would be in the pilot-wave theories such as Bohmian mechanics. The only assumptions there are non-locality and hidden variables - frankly I don't see either as a problem.

Anyhow, I just thought I'd point out that MWI is one among many interpretations worth exploring.

379. A flea we missed?

Comment #232540 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 10:17 am

Damn ... we need a new form of Poe's law. I can't even figure out who is serious and who is being a smart ass anymore.

Either way I am getting a months worth of entertainment about seeing a collection of people who are so weak minded as to have their behavior so easily influenced by one individual over a website.

With such pliability rampant in society it is no wonder religions have so many followers.

380. Religion out of medicine, a new message for Ontario doctors

Comment #232536 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 9:43 am

You make a reasonable point. Part of it gets at one of the reasons I am against such systems. However I think you are overstating the case: regulation does not need to mean BAD regulation.

"And they'll say: "Government has the power to override doctor's consciences?..."

No "government" should not have that right. Evidence based medicine and scientific research should have that right. "Government" should not be the dictatorial body you characterize it as. It should be a means of communication; those with the evidence and facts collected before them discussing and debating what treatments are ethical or not and appropriate or not. I DO support such regulation over willy-nilly every doctor for himself.

Taken to the extreme the idea of freedom of each doctor makes the whole profession meaningless. Yes a patient could research which doctors are good or bad. But to be fully educated on a doctors ability, in the absence of any regulatory bodies, the patient would have to have the equivalent to a doctors education to make the decision.

381. Religion out of medicine, a new message for Ontario doctors

Comment #232532 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 9:30 am

Ironically bob the quote of mine you referred to was meant as satirical or insulting. Even more ironic is that it was responding to fanusi's statements that doctors could refuse to work or else they were slaves.

I met one hyperbole with another. But along with that I also added content to the discussion which I invite you to do.

382. Religion out of medicine, a new message for Ontario doctors

Comment #232530 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 9:25 am

Thanks for the insults Bob. But saying that someone cannot refuse to work and keep their job is not nonsensical.

If you'd site any other background for your insults it would sure be more productive.

"Some of J Mac's statements are nonsensical; therefore all his statements are nonsensical." Even if you could prove the first half the second half does not follow. If you disagree with my statements say why. Either that or shut your fucking cock holster.

See how unproductive insults are.

---------------------

Fanusi I'm actually finding myself in agreemet with most of your more recent posts. However one point:

"Are you really willing to trust your medical care to someone willing to work under compulsion, with his mind throttled and abrogated? Are you really willing to entrust your life to that?"

While governments can be pretty screwed up I would rather have a doctors mind "throttled" by a regulatory agency staffed by other medical professionals than by a religious dogma that is not subject to question or review.

383. Religion out of medicine, a new message for Ontario doctors

Comment #232523 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 9:10 am

"akin to suggesting that we privatize police or fire service."

Actually this has been done, and has worked wonderfully.

I don't disagree that privatized systems have flaws, as do the socialized systems. You can't compare the best of one to the worst of another. Each works to maximize its own strength and minimize its own weakness.

From what I know of canada's system it works great. But the universal health care proposed by americas democratic candidates is sickening, there are few things I am more opposed to.

384. Petrol pump pilgrims keep faith

Comment #232520 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 9:05 am

I've actually swung a bit the other way on patriotism.

I used to have what you would probably call a healthy patriotism. I thought america was a great country, but I never assumed we were the best. I was proud to be an american. And it was partially my idealism that had me enlist in the military.

Now things have changed. America sucks! I see america as a sinking ship that I'm looking to get out of as soon as possible. And the past 8 years we've had an idiot who not only denies that we are sinking but who is actively drilling more holes in the boat.

The main hinderance is while I am competent in other languages I have no where near the fluency required to work in academia in a foreign language.

I've been looking into england and some other english speaking nations for future prospects. Sadly however from my limited knowledge of the situation it seems islam is having as much effect on europe as christianity has on america.

Are there no clear thinking nations left out there.... Australia has caught my eye. We'll see how things go.

385. Religion out of medicine, a new message for Ontario doctors

Comment #232511 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 8:38 am

"What about private doctors are they, or are they not entitled to refuse? "

It depends on the the system and the laws. In most nations a private practice quack can do whatever they want and refuse whatever they want for any reason they want.

But if they are to be licensed by the state, medical college, or other such association, then they must abide by the rules of that association. Abide by the rules, or resign/relinquish their license.

A construction worker cannot refuse to do construction and still keep the job. A plumber cannot refuse to do plumbing and keep his job. A doctor cannot refuse to practice medicine and still keep his job.

If the word "doctor" is to mean anything at all there must be some system of standards. Those who refuse the standards should not use the title.

In contrast homeopathic practitioners in america require no license, training, nor brain cells. I could open up a homeopathic shop in my garage tomorrow and claim to be a homeopath. These practitioners are certainly free to refuse whatever treatment they wish.

386. Petrol pump pilgrims keep faith

Comment #232508 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 8:31 am

Oh, and my responses to the complainers don't have anything to do with american pride. My truck is a toyota. Its been quite a while since an american made vehicle could actually compete in my mind.

387. Petrol pump pilgrims keep faith

Comment #232505 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 8:26 am

The miata was a lot of fun. But it was just to small. I haul stuff around pretty regularly, nothing big, but big enough to need a vehicle with a trunk at least. I could never manage in the miata.

388. Religion out of medicine, a new message for Ontario doctors

Comment #232503 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 8:21 am

"Termination of a contract for non-compliance is not force. Writing something into law is. That's the crucial difference."

No there is no law that will say that no one can refuse to give blood transfusions for example.

The law says that no DOCTOR can refuse such things. Aka no doctor being paid by state/government funds.

No force involved, its just clarifying the "contract" between the government and its employees.

If you are against socialized medicine fine; in fact I'm no fan either. But I would not call it slavery.

389. Petrol pump pilgrims keep faith

Comment #232498 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 8:12 am

That all makes sense. Perhaps I had a bit too much of a knee-jerk reaction to the statement. All to often I hear statements of that sort with with a condescending tone assuming some sort of superiority. As is apparent, it pisses me off.

My apologizes for assuming this was what you were saying.

390. Religion out of medicine, a new message for Ontario doctors

Comment #232493 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 8:01 am

Ah yes. Gotta love when someone sees something they don't like and they suddenly associate it with slavery or fascism.

skip who the hell are you to declare that someone is not allowed to refuse work? What are you going to do if they still refuse? Force them? Force someone to work? There is a name for this.

391. Petrol pump pilgrims keep faith

Comment #232490 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 7:55 am

I never said it had anything to do with europe v america. I was describing one person who criticized my truck.

I used to drive a mazda miata, they don't get much smaller than that. I was never bothered by big cars on the road. If someone was tailgating me at 90mph I'd have a problem with then no matter what they were driving.

I agree with the personal taste issue. You are certainly free to wish all big vehicles of the road. I just think its foolish to believe that wish is based on more than your personal taste. People make a lot of foolish assumptions. People see my truck, which is good looking 4x4 and they assume its a fuel hog. If I drove a nissan maxima no such assumptions would be made. But my truck gets on average 5-10mpg MORE than the maxima.

392. Charles Darwin investigated whether blondes have more fun

Comment #232487 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 7:49 am

Lolas,

That post was filled with false assumptions. A few examples:

"Darwin wrongly assumes that men are the choosers, and women are passively waiting to get chosen."

No he doesn't. He does assume that men are choosers; which is absolutely true. There is nothing exclusive about it, but men are not completely indiscriminate.

The idea behind this is essentially: Do men find blondes more attractive. That is a perfectly legitimate scientific question which in fact has some support. It is much like "Do men find a 0.7 W/H ration attractive?" We can address and answer these questions.

393. Petrol pump pilgrims keep faith

Comment #232480 by J Mac on August 18, 2008 at 7:38 am

I wish the prices would go upto a point where there would be no more trucks or SUVs on the road; Only small, efficient, and safe cars.

394. Richard Dawkins Lecture at UC Berkeley

Comment #232321 by J Mac on August 17, 2008 at 11:39 pm

Goldy,

Just reply "Well, you're right, maybe, just maybe there is a god. So I'm an agnostic. But any god that might exist.... well he's just a royal prick isn't he?"

395. Richard Dawkins Lecture at UC Berkeley

Comment #232315 by J Mac on August 17, 2008 at 11:34 pm

"...I didn't mean no one on the site are scientists, I meant the specific people I was discussing with. I don't find it hard to believe that Steve is, but I'm disappointed if the other two were."

Well yes I am. You can feel free to call me an asshole, but I am an asshole who is a scientist. But I didn't nor wouldn't bring that up as I don't see it as relevant. Arguments should judged on their own merit, not by who said them.

Now as much as it pains me to actually defend something Mitchell said, he is correct that I used the word proof in my courtroom ANALOGY [proof is relevant in a courtroom]. If this was confusing I apologize.

396. Richard Dawkins Lecture at UC Berkeley

Comment #232311 by J Mac on August 17, 2008 at 11:30 pm

"proof" does not apply to the types of statements addressed by science - thanks (or blame in my case) mostly to Karl Popper.

Science relies on falsifiability which applies only to positive universal statements and negative existentials. Neither of these can ever be conclusively proven, but that can be disproved or falsified.

Prior to Popper verification was a worthwhile criteria, but it only worked on the other two types of statements (negative universals and positive existentials). These statements can never be conclusively disproved, but they can be proved. These however are rarely useful statements. Popper it seems concluded that these statements are NEVER useful, which is part of my disdain for what he did to the scientific field; but generally the falsifiable statements are much more useful.

In short one can argue, as I often do, whether falsification is the only legitimate criteria that SHOULD be used in science. But until something changes it IS the criteria that is used in science. In other words nothing in science can be proven.

397. Richard Dawkins Lecture at UC Berkeley

Comment #232299 by J Mac on August 17, 2008 at 11:05 pm

"In fact none of us here are scientists, so I think that quibble of semantics is merely a distraction. "

None of us huh? Look around again, you might actually find quite a few.


Scientific method 101: dissecting a non-starter

Observation: life exists on celestial bodies in space. Hypothesis: Life can travel from one celestial body in space to another celestial body in space, and propagate. Test: is there a medium for life to travel from one body to another? Confirmed. Can life survive traveling through space? Confirmed. Can life surviving a high speed landing? Confirmed. Can life propagate on terrestrial planets? Confirmed. There is even evidence that life can exist on planets with extreme environments.

398. Petrol pump pilgrims keep faith

Comment #232296 by J Mac on August 17, 2008 at 10:49 pm

god was "testing their faith" during those months.

399. Richard Dawkins Lecture at UC Berkeley

Comment #232289 by J Mac on August 17, 2008 at 10:31 pm

"Worded out by the assumption of how many planets we expect to have life..."

Oh, and how many is that?

***I think I better leave, cause I swear if he mentions the drake equation I'm gonna have to hurt someone****

400. Richard Dawkins Lecture at UC Berkeley

Comment #232284 by J Mac on August 17, 2008 at 10:27 pm

Or actually witnessing your "observation"... sci-fi movies do not count as observations.

And experimental testing does not CONFIRM anything. You seek to reject alternate hypotheses. Your "tests" are not tests in any way shape or form as they "confirm" everything.

Might as well add the test "1 1=2? confirmed."

THIS is the problem with the current scientific education.