401. It was a bad year for God.

Comment #110860 by Roland_F on January 13, 2008 at 4:46 am

201. Comment #110840 by flyingfsck

I have long held that the Satan character is an altogether more agreeable fellow than the god of the Christian-Judaic bible.

Making a horror movie out of the old testament would be really the most bloody movie of history, containing mass killings, genocide ,mass-rape, slavery abuse etc... yes the Bible is really the only morally acceptable movie script for this.

402. The Moral Instinct

Comment #110849 by Roland_F on January 13, 2008 at 2:54 am

51. Comment #110820 by Nephite

I'm not saying I like everything about Mother Theresa, but I believe there is something noble about getting down in the trenches, putting your arms around someone and comforting them when they are suffering

Just some thoughts of me:
(1) Going to a Hindu country to do missionary work and convert to Catholicism under the cover of 'Humanitarian aid'.
(2) Reusing syringes resulting in the spreading of more diseases (Hepa-B & C and others …) to save a few Rupees for the richest church
(3) Concentrating more on missionary work than on health improvment
(4) Is it really only religious empathy and nobles to make this happen, or maybe more a naturally motherly instinct of an unmarried Nunn ?

So the marketing image count's more than the actual work, and it seems that the Catholic Church is very good in this PR. Good also this topic is not taboo any more.

403. Why (Almost All) Cosmologists are Atheists

Comment #110835 by Roland_F on January 12, 2008 at 10:21 pm

68. Comment #110705 by Steve Zara -(about cosmological constant)

This is not to say that Einstein is now right, as his initial assumption of a static universe remains wrong.

Hi Steve,
indeed Einstein's biggest blunder remain – the cosmological constant is just another 'crutch' to compensate for a wrongly assumed static universe.

About the universe bang-crunch-bang cycle : there seems to be some psychological consolation for us earthlings about the 'sense or meaning of life' when the universe is running in cycles rather than 'hopelessly' expanding forever.

This article is just today (12.Jan) in newscientists: 'ball shaped universe bounces back" when looking at the distribution of the background radiation Luminet and his colleagues suggests that the universe is finite but is wrapped around on itself….. it seems we still have a long way to go.

rod-the-farmer, Deepthought , kitti-avi : So some theists you met are concerned and are wandering why the universe expansion is (or might be) accelerating : Just tell them it's the revenge of God Baal … because they all worship the wrong God Yahweh .

404. The Group Delusion

Comment #110832 by Roland_F on January 12, 2008 at 9:20 pm

102. Comment #110818 by spiderdancer on January 12, 2008 at 5:46 pm
In response to tribalypredisposed it is important to remember that genetic evolution is a very slow process. The genes simply haven't had chance to keep pace with technological and cultural changes of the 20th century.

Indeed genetic evolution is a very slow process "in the hand a nuclear bomb but the instincts of a Neanderthal".
I have to refer again to the book 'The eternal child from Clive Bromhall, there exactly this selection from aggressive alpha male dominated groups towards bigger proto-human groups is explained. Due to climatic changes in Africa around 5 million years ago, the previously dense forest was replaced with more savannah grasslands with few trees to hide. Survival for the Apes living there, could only be achieved by stopping the infighting for group dominance (especially chimpanzees are very ferocious) and instead becoming more childlike group players. This selection for less aggressive more childlike behavior enabled bigger group sizes (20-40 of proto-humans) compared with chimpanzees (4-7 per group) which was a good advantage to fight off Pleistocene predators (Lions, Hyena, Saber tooth …). Additionally this more childlike behavior of humans comes along with a more family orientation of males – a clear advantage for raising children for the long period required in humans.
So sexual selection e.g. the preference of females for more childlike males as mating partner was further boosting this selection.
On a genetic level it was simply selection for genes for the premature birth of humans and the further delay of maturing (thymus gland keeps producing Promine into adulthood).

Selection of this can be very fast, some experiments with wild Siberian Foxes showed the selective breeding for the tamest ones and using only the tamest (childish) offspring for further breeding …. can lead already within a few generations to a variety of totally different races (similar like dogs) which have not much in common with the original Fox breeding ancestor 30 years earlier. Instead of solo hunters a kindergarten gang is formed.

The altruism of hero's : birds sitting in the highest place of the tree and giving warning shrieks for the rest of the group, risking his own life by attracting the attention of predatory birds. Again sexual selection preference from females for hero's from which the complete group is benefiting as a result can be a strong selection driver. Frequently occurring 'free riders' (hiding instead of giving off alarms) have difficulties to get selected from females for further breeding.
Independent from sexual selection : if there are too many 'free riders' the alarm mechanism of the group is failing which is resulting in higher casualties for the entire group which might be wiped out and can not spread 'free rider' Genes any more. Game theory can give some answers how much 'free riders' can be accommodated from the group without risking survival.

So considering this selection over millions of years for altruism (especially reciprocal altruism) and comparing this with the theist claim that altruism come into being with Jesus teaching 33-36 A.D. and can be only explained (and sustained !!) by the Bible …. It's Anthropocentric and Chrsitianocentric wishful thinking to put it mildly.

405. Why (Almost All) Cosmologists are Atheists

Comment #110703 by Roland_F on January 12, 2008 at 2:44 am

62. Comment #110682 by kitti-avi

that since the universe is actually accelerating as opposed to slowing down or retaining its speed as it should do, this meant that god was "pulling it apart" for some reason.
Any comeback on that? I didn't know what to say, not having kept up the physics so much... :s

Yes this acceleration of the universe instead of the slowdown was discovered recently (2006, 2007). After so many years cosmologists were searching in vain for the missing mass of the universe (including dark matter, hoping for neutrinos mass, then dark energy) to be comforted of a big crunch someday in the very distant future possibly resulting into a cycle of bangs and crunches.
This acceleration of expansion was commented with "now Einstein's cosmological constant is coming back - maybe it wasn't the biggest blunder in his life after all"….

Another measurement was that the speed of light was slightly higher some billion years ago. As the difference is very small and for this kind of distance/time scale measurements is a little inaccurate it might be just some a wrong measurement. I haven't heard latest confirmation about this.

406. Richard Dawkins on The Late Edition with Marcus Brigstocke

Comment #110283 by Roland_F on January 10, 2008 at 9:24 pm

83. Comment #110141 by UncleJJ

Please remember they are not like you or I and everyone on this site, able to be persuaded by rational argument on this subject. They have faith

It's not 'faith' holding back theists they are simply scared to acknowledge the place of humans in the universe: earth is not the center of it and humans are not the godlike pinnacle of evolution but just a temporary species.

And now there is this species of Homo sapiens: a premature born ape which is very slowly growing up and many people keep the infantile mindset until adulthood. Therefore persuading theist with rational arguments about specific evolution details remains mostly fruitless.
Really difficult to lure someone away from the motherly affection and love of virgin Mary and fatherly protection of their God on which theists want to rely on for their entire life.
So in the cave of Aristotle they are not watching the shadows outside to gain knowledge or slowly inching their way to the exit to see better, the theist turning their back to the exit and huddle for cover in a corner afraid of the shadows outside.

I am just reading again an old book from 1970 called 'children of the universe' from Hoimar v. Ditfurth the writer who influenced me most in the 1970s to become atheist as teenager.
His statement is that the torture or burning of Copernicus, Bruno and Galilee can not only be blamed on the Catholic church, who entangled inside the jungle of their own dogmas became totally immobilized to modernize. The main reason was that people simply are scared of loosing their 'safe' godlike special and central position. Finding out that we are sitting on a small dust spec, somewhere in a universe which astronomical dimensions are far beyond human perception is an inconvenient and scaring truth.

When I read all the theist post with their denial of facts and their equation: atheism = nihilism, I think this fear factor is quite a fitting description. So the tactic to counter theist denial with even more scientific facts might even push theist further back into the corner of the Aristotle cave.

407. Irreligion: A Mathematician Explains Why the Arguments for God Just Don't Add Up

Comment #110269 by Roland_F on January 10, 2008 at 7:53 pm

142. Comment #110254 by MPhil

the brain is a parallel engine, and thus (Churchland argues) we will have to really build neural nets of the same high level parallel nature

This is what I also would like to comment: that the structure of data processing is different and needs to be parallel more interconnected.

Diacanu : Terabytes of hardrive, terahertz CPUs, you got the processing equivalent of a brain

So just increasing the speed and memory for a sequential standard architecture (v. Neumann) is not helping. And this parallel processing of neuronal network architecture is something else, than just adding lines of parallel CPU's (Vector computer, Transputer) – they also work sequential for each single CPU after a pre-processing logic is splitting & distributing tasks to each unit, and have no cross simultaneous connection of results (just predefined synchronization points).

Additionally an 'Associative memory' was a topic - like a round mail to everyone and every memory which can contribute would trigger a response.
However adding massive hardware power ala Google might do at last this trick with standard architecture.

Also the brain is able to compensate for big damages, I read about cases where even half of the brain were removed (supposed to contain the memory for specific information) and the remaining brain half could still reconstruct the destroyed information after some time and training. The brain seems to be a much more parallel self repairing mechanism, than just a simple mirror technique used in current IT architecture.

This neuronal network was a hot topic in the 1980s with all this AI hype, but I haven't heard much about in the last years.

408. Could there be a Darwinian Account of Human Creativity?

Comment #109926 by Roland_F on January 10, 2008 at 4:22 am

402. Comment #109914 by wooter
Actually the task was to explain understandable (!) for little kids how a human or animals moves around.
Do you think a 6 year old understand this technical explanation of energy handling inside the body cells ??

The only thing you do again (as always) is input the catchword (now mitochondria), and cut and paste from your creationist website which you don't understand yourself.

These sites itself are nearly all following the same schemata:
(1) just copy detailed standard textbook knowledge over pages to fake competence.
(2) Insert a single sentence "this is so complicated it can not happen without a creator "(ignoring evidence and scientific explanations available since years like DNA fraction swaps).
(3) And continue the copy of further textbook knowledge afterwards.

409. Could there be a Darwinian Account of Human Creativity?

Comment #109909 by Roland_F on January 10, 2008 at 3:12 am

Wooter (from Yesterday):

One kid asked me to ask you all:
How do you think that all creatures are moving? Where is that life in them is coming from? He is waiting for your answer

An answer for the sake of the little kids, not for yours as everything not pointing to God would anyhow be disregarded. Most likely simple science books for kids are available who might explain it much better than me here.

Consider a small marble which is rolling down a ramp very fast into a glass bowl and there continue rolling in a circle. And because this marble is our big earth and it's so very heavy and fast the movement will run very long before it's slowing down under some very small friction.
Of course it's easier to explain it simply with God who is spinning the earth and moving it day for day around the sun according to your teaching (hope God don't get exhausted from daily spinning earth and planets and circulate them around the sun) plus the hundred billions of other stars alone in our galaxy, and the stars circling around the center of the galaxy.

For the moving creatures maybe an analogy would help: you have this little toy car what is moving around without being pushed – looks like magic. But you open it and see there is a little motor and a battery powering it. And now in animals you have this muscle cells and their little motor is the mitochondria and it's energy is stored in batteries which scientist call ATP. And this ATP is derived from the food the animal or human is eating to make it very simple.
Of course an easier explanation for little kids is just God who is pulling us like string puppets, so that we are moving around.

I see it's difficult to explain planetary movements and avoiding advanced science on high school or college level – but just explaining everything simply as God is spinning and moving us via invisible strings etc. is more laziness or the inability to explain it understandable of the teacher.

410. Could there be a Darwinian Account of Human Creativity?

Comment #109906 by Roland_F on January 10, 2008 at 3:05 am

Another 'wooter' (synonym for this auto text generating software 'bullshit bingo')

How do you explain different races and different people with their different fingerprints that help the police catch the bad guys? LUCK? CHANCES? What?

So God created the different races so that police can catch the bad guys – step-1 rough identification
And God created all the different fingerprints to identify the bad guys – step-2 as final identification.
I missed this insight so far.
And why God created all that different dog races – to entertain the breeder who was selective breeding for specific features ?

We should collect all her quotes like this and publish this into a small booklet: 'Insights of a creationist'.

411. Changing my Mind

Comment #109866 by Roland_F on January 10, 2008 at 1:14 am

185. Comment #109779 by qster

The Chinese have been using herbal medicine and acupuncture for thousands of years - are they all magicians?

As mentioned before my sister is homeopath (with certification - whatever this means in Germany), so I not sure why someone can be certified if this would be only considered as humbug from health authorities.
However the health insurance is not paying any applications, only school medicine is paid for.

I would prefer some 'soft medicine' like herbal treatment, if effective instead the hard medicine from pharmaceutical companies. Now I am living in Asia, where the doctors by default prescribing antibiotic for everything (itching nose, stomach pain, hurting feet…) and everything not hardcore like vitamins or mineral supplements have to print a bold "no proven therapeutically value" on this packs – powerful Pharmaceutical lobby.

As mentioned in an earlier blog, the acupuncture was tested in some triple blind tests and seems only to rely on the placebo effect. Triple blind means
(1) according to acupuncture teaching
(2) position needles into wrong place
(3) position into right place put don't penetrate the skin

What changed my mind about homeopathy – the total watering down. Since then I would not take this Arnica micro-pills any more.

412. It was a bad year for God.

Comment #109418 by Roland_F on January 9, 2008 at 3:12 am

107. Comment #109351 by AndreG

As to the morals, should we have a universal moral base or should we work out the moral systems, that suit us individually? The danger of atheism, in my view, is that everyone would be entitled to their own morals

What is a 'universal' moral base ?
Exactly for this 'universal' we have to use some atheistic secular approach, otherwise you can't even agree on a common Christian Moral approach for Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox.
Then add Jews, Islam, Mormons, J.W. and you run into bigger difficulties already for a single country like USA for example. So there is a constitution, bill of rights coming out of a moral code for the nation not specific religion.
Then add all the other religions or value systems: Hinduism, Buddhism , Jainism, Taoism … etc… and you need a global secular UN charter not a Catholic or Orthodox forced upon the world.
Please come done from your 'Christiano-centric' worldview !

About that myth that moral is exclusively possible and valid with a religion as background. Do we really depend on a higher godly instance as policemen to be moral?!

So which is the source of this Moral code when concentration on Christian believe for the moment ? Your own interpretation of religion, your local priest, the pope, the council from Nicene in 325 AD ??

When the only source for morale can be the Bible, the moral code is including suppression of women like offering your 2 virgin daughters for mass rape (story of Lot), genocide your neighbors, kill dancers around the golden calf, stone people to death who collect firewood on a weekend, praise slavery, disrespect against parents are punished by death, adultery also by death ….etc…

Or if you think all these examples of the Bible are immoral – what then ?
Just cherry pick single positive and forget all the negative elements ?
Who anyhow feels competent to make this judgment of cherry picking ?
So God's word is sometimes morally acceptable and sometimes not acceptable !!
So the decision what is morally acceptable inside the Bible has to be made from a judge based on EXTERNAL not Biblical morality principles !!

Ergo we don't need the Bible as moral ground, because a case to case decision which parts are moral or not, have to be made based on external value system of moral.
When you take the fundamental stand and take the Bible literally for moral guidance you have to declare all (inclduing all this secular morally considered as negative) elements as your morale base. And even this will lead to massive inconsistencies and contradiction: You shall not kill (10 commandments), Moses comes down with this guidance and few minutes later kill 3000 people, the next page the stone to death for collecting firewood, then Genocide, and all the other killings leaving their bloody trail throughout the Bible.
As there can be no consistent non self-contradicting guidance derived, the Bible can't be used even literally.

==>> So this simple math show the Moral can never come from the Bible (and most likely not from any other religion)

413. Those fanatical atheists

Comment #109347 by Roland_F on January 8, 2008 at 10:18 pm

The virgin birth myth was also just a translation problem between Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek, beside that Isaiah was making his prophecy of 'a young women will come to bear a new king of Israel' was 800 BC to the ruling king to please him that a new heir will be born soon (not Jesus 800 years later).

How was Christianity starting: When using the evidence of all available sources e.g. Bible, other historical texts, Roman history, Dead see scrolls (suppressed and 'spinned' meaning and purposely wrong dated from Catholic church…)

Jesus was most likely member of the 'zealots of the book' a fundamentalist Jewish movement, reaching back to the Greece occupation, who was then (during Jesus times) at odd with the installed Roman puppet King and Priesthood under Herod-II and not the peaceful Essenes. The zealots were preaching the righteous living according to the law (of Moses).

The apostles under leadership of James 'brother of the Lord' or in external sources from historian Josephus 'brother of Jesus' were still following the line of preaching strict follow-ship of 'the law' and only Paul created Christianity.
Paul never met Jesus, just had a heat stroke and sun blinding and heard voices in the desert on the way to arrest James and the apostles and converted after this.
He completely deviated from the teaching of Jesus and the 'zealots of the book' and try to convert gentiles. For this he made up stories to compete against other deities of the regions and advanced Jesus to godhood. The originally followers of Jesus called Paul only the liar (source: dead see scrolls), but Paul the liar founded the biggest religion of Christianity misusing the name of Jesus.

==> and this new found religion based on Gospels and letters from Paul should trump the scientific evidence gathered during the last centuries ?!?

I just read all this critical evaluation of the Bible history, showing all this made up stories of the old testament, mistranslations, internal inconsistencies, etc... quite recently and I am really shocked how a religion based on such shaky foundations can claim 'the ultimate truth' .

414. Those fanatical atheists

Comment #109333 by Roland_F on January 8, 2008 at 9:34 pm

153. Comment #109325 by Shrommer

the one who objectively and verifiably rose from the dead and appeared publicly to over 500 people at a time

What is 'objectively verifiable' – about an event which occurred April 36 AD, written down between 70-95 AD in a dozen different contradicting versions based on 'Chinese whisper' (I have heard, that my brother have heard his friend has heard…..). Out from this dozen in 325 AD in Nicene there was just a raffle and 4 versions of Gospel were chosen. And this versions of assembled distorted, patched Chinese whisper contradict each other and contradict external versions.
There is a lot of literature about Bible history out there, investigating all this contradictions and brining this 'rising from the dead' into a wider context of old testament superstition.

So for atheist this 'objectively verifiable' is not an account written down 40 years later from people who were not participating and just noting down rumors and gossip distorted over time.
Even if people would be 'eye witness' as primary source : How many Elvis sightings were recorded after his death !

415. Changing my Mind

Comment #109313 by Roland_F on January 8, 2008 at 8:14 pm

174. Comment #109285 by Steve Zara

To get research published you have to demonstrate the quality of your evidence to a standard that your competitors (often after the same funding you are) can't dispute.

There we are back to the topic I had placed for medical research on the positive effects of smoking or the 'controversy' about global warming. There are indeed very good control and check mechanism (peer review) in 'clean scientific research', e.g. reputed universities, Max Planck, Fraunhofer Institutes.

Where I have the problem is that there are pseudo institutes or heavy biased researchers hanging like an addict on the needle for funding of interested parties. The tobacco industry is funding research lab's which are more an appendix of the PR agency 'working on the case to be established'.
And the initial denial of human involvement in climate change were starting surprisingly from this Philipp Morris created institutes and only later the Oil lobby happily used this established vehicles.
Example: "glaciers are not all shrinking many are actually expanding". This was 'verified' by quoting another scientist, who quoted himself another, who had only a single example to 'proof' the many expanding claim, and that 1 example was already contradicted as a single year expansion 20 years ago.
Example: "Smoking has many positive effects like reduced risk of Alzheimer or Parkinson" . First this test was not based on smoking but and injecting only Nicotine, so all other toxics and cancer enhancing substances, tar etc. were excluded. I am quite sure the research was not to show all positive and negative effect but only throwing a few million US$ in the ring, to find anything positive and ignoring all the negatives.

Now the problem which I have : how on earth can I as an interested person know who is right, who is pushing an agenda, which business interest is funding this research – to trust the published results ????

416. Changing my Mind

Comment #109310 by Roland_F on January 8, 2008 at 8:11 pm

171. Comment #109226 by qster

What does the pacebo effect indicate? to me it means that by a process of suggestion and without any active component, patients are capable of 'curing' themselves. …..

Somewhere (sorry can't retrieve it now) I read about the placebo effect. In the daily struggle of survival, in an often hostile environment the human body has to conserve energy. So starting this 'self-healing' process is only done via some 'substances' released form the brain (hormones, neuro-transmitter ?? sorry I am not the medical expert there) when there is a HOPE of fast and reliable cure.
This 'hope' can be provided by a smart looking doctor in a white coat even when only prescribing placebo medicine, this can be a shaman ritual, or it can be a homeopath.
So when school medicine is not helping any more, it might be simply because the doctor's waiting room is full and you are processed very fast, hectically and impersonally, the Doc not really probing deep into patient health history. Then there is no healing progress from this impersonal relation, whatever medicine is prescribed.
Now this patient is taking homoeopathic treatment : a relaxed private atmosphere (not a sterile clinic and no waiting room full of virus coughing patients), long personal discussion 'holistic' not only on your hurting knee and you leave with a good feeling something can be done – the start signal of the self-healing process is triggered.

417. Blind Faiths

Comment #109287 by Roland_F on January 8, 2008 at 6:20 pm

101. Comment #109021 by notsobad

good old Babylonia

I meant this according to the context as Iraq during European dark ages. The 'good old' I used because this region has quite a long history before.

the standstill in Europe was for about 800-1000 years.

I counted the 1500 years from Christ's times until Copernicus & Co. Actually I was thinking more about the huge gap between Aristotle (or Archimedes) until Copernicus. Possibly I missed some important scientific advances in this time ?


102. Comment #109023 by al-rawandi

I think the connection to Qutb is a bit overstated however

103. Comment #109035 by lesferdinand

I don't think that can all be pinned on Qutb

I am not the expert on Qutb, I have read a couple of books about Islamic radicals and terrorism, authors who were in Afghanistan, interviewed Osama & Co, some books about radicals in Indonesia, SE Asia, Egypt etc… and practically all books and all interviewed radical leaders mentioned the huge influence of Qutb.

I personally don't think an individual can change what a society thinks

But a single individual can trigger a revolution when the dormant anger of people is ripe for it – see Karl Marx.

There are so many suppressed people in non Muslim countries and they do not rise into revolt (1) against their own government and later (2) against 'the West' in general.
Let's look at Catholic countries in Latin America, Africa, or the Philippines. All their poor malnourished squatters don't rise up against their very Catholic influenced government. Hardly anyone blames their backwardness and poverty on God, who turned them down because they are not strict enough Catholics and adapt too much towestern secular values. Did anyone heard of demands of a much stricter God orientation of their Catholic government or enforce Moses law to overcome their backwardness ?!

I think the difference is not that suppressed Muslims think more global 'West against Umna' than suppressed Catholic's - both are suppressed from their own corrupt governments (filling their own pockets first) or globally from 'Western imperialism'. So the main reason seems to be really Islam.

418. Blind Faiths

Comment #108995 by Roland_F on January 8, 2008 at 5:37 am

Islamic countries like Persia (and also the good old Babylonia) were much more advanced during middle ages than Europe during this time in areas like medicine, astronomy etc..
The main factor who changed it (beside their 'fertile crescent' become exhausted after 10,000 years of intense agriculture) was for them to turn more religious. At the same time the advance of science with Copernicus, Kepler, Bruno Galileo, in Europe progressed because the stubborn backwardness of religion was overcome after 1500 years of standstill.
And what was the reaction of the Islam society falling behind ? Become even more backward with Wahabism. Then Sayyid Qutb on his return from an visit to the USA sit down back in Egypt and writes his book that all the backwardness is because the people of the Umna turned away from Allah and have to live much more strict to Islamic law.
Qutb was practically the 'spiritual father' of the new radical Islamic movement of the last decades.

419. Could there be a Darwinian Account of Human Creativity?

Comment #108991 by Roland_F on January 8, 2008 at 5:15 am

Sun never said , Hey earth, I am out of oil. Send some oil to me

Missed out this one – indeed how can someone get a BA and MA thinking the sun is out of Oil ?

kids are aged from 6 to 13 That is why they can think better than us.

Maybe a 6 year old kid can think better than him not 'us' .

I still bet his country is Philippines – Asian afternoon/evening for blogging activity, PH is the only Catholic country in Asia, US based school system, many native English speaker around, and you can buy college exams results or can be assigned as teacher with the qualification to be the family relative of the Mayor, or municipality board member etc..

420. Could there be a Darwinian Account of Human Creativity?

Comment #108983 by Roland_F on January 8, 2008 at 4:43 am

Wooter:

First kids are aged from 6 to 13. The kids' minds are fresh and not dirty with unnecessary info. That is why they can think better than us.

Exactly this is the extremely sad story, that religious people brainwash and indoctrinate helpless children. It's a shame that totally ignorant persons, who even don't try to understand, are allowed to spoil children's minds with such rubbish.

Don't push me to prove it scientifically

You don't have a clue and can't explain it at all.

So, in this perfect world, everything is designed for human being and human being is the most valuable creature because HE HAS BEEN MIND AND LOGIC TO THINK.

When I read your comments, unfortunately you seems to be the exception par excellence of this hypothesis "mind and logic to think".
But let's find conciliation a quote from the sermon of the mount in Matt5:3 : [Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven]

After the earth dies, god will create another world with different conditions. Animals will finish their duty in this world.

This is not from the Bible and not catholic doctrine, you even invent religion.

(What exactly is your primary language?)

Let me guess it' s Tagalog, and you are teaching in a public elementary school in a small provincial town in the Philippines.

421. Blind Faiths

Comment #108910 by Roland_F on January 8, 2008 at 12:05 am

58. Comment #108794 by PlagioClase

The West no longer knows what it stands for but Islam is absolutely clear about its commitment to Allah.
The West has lost its drive to defend itself, but Islam is committed to jihad to spread Islam.

I find this insight into the mind set of a Christian fanatic very shocking. So we have to go on a head-on collision between religions to restrict the spread of Islam under a Christian banner.

The West no longer wants to have kids, even killing their offspring before they are born. Islam is breeding at many times the rate.
The West is aging. Islam is young.
The West is shrinking. Islam is growing.

So that is the reason why the Catholic Church is condemning contraceptives, abortion etc… it's a race to out-compete Islam by numbers. I was assuming a similar intention plus maybe that a religion is "more true" if it has a few million more followers.

10 years ago I was working in Israel for a few month and I've got a feeling of this head-on collision. Total security upon boarding and immigration with cross examination at 2:00h am before departure, the most people there (Jewish and Muslim alike) just want peace but they are high jacked and taken hostage from the fanatics. During this time I dove by in my taxi by a bus terminal just bombed 5 minutes earlier and the road was closed 1 minute later, when I made a weekend trip via bus from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, the bus 20 minutes later was blown up. The Israeli Prime Minister Rabin negotiating peace, meeting privately with Arafat was killed from a right wing Jew (Likud member) to end the peace process. Arafat was mourning together with Rabin's widow at the grave, and all my local colleagues, starving for peaceful coexistence, were deeply saddened.

So again the quiet majority on both sides were taken victim from relentless hardliners pushing their religious agenda.
The only chance I see is really a kind of 'OUT' movement of the moderates to contain the radicals, and a conversion of the society from humanists, educated people, atheists … to propagate a secular society and dry up the religious swamp as breeding ground for radicals.

Of course there can be also other personal cults be established (Stalin), or instead Koran then the Green Book from Ghadaffi etc. to commit evil deeds, but religion is the favorite banner for the majority of radicals.

422. Sam Harris debate with Rabbi David Wolpe

Comment #108458 by Roland_F on January 7, 2008 at 1:20 am

324. Comment #108448 by Summer Seale
It's getting really more and more difficult to find out which side to believe.
I am aware that NASA corrected their data, in the version from your link it's because of a Y2K computer bug. The story I read (published outside USA) about this downward adjustment is, that NASA just played with the data to get the result they were pressured to show. Adjustment reasons mentioned there were 'man made heat radiation' of nearby cities needs to be accounted for. There were also several complaints of US scientist that they were forced from government to alter their results. Luckily there are other people outside the USA also able to read and record their temperature.

I just posted another blog of the topic 'positive or negative health effects of smoking'. I mentioned you have to look who is financing this scientific research to judge the outcome 'qui bono' how a jurist would call it.

In an interview with a Nobel laureate Robert Laughlin I read last week, he complaint of the increased commercialization of research which leads to corruption so that sometimes the outcome is faked (remember the false success story of a human clone).

As Winston Churchill once said: " I don't trust any statistic I haven't faked myself".

423. Smoking changes brain chemistry

Comment #108456 by Roland_F on January 7, 2008 at 12:38 am

3. Comment #108454 by DrMotley

I am no medical expert to judge which of the articles are right : from 2007 => stop smoking, from 1992 smoke as much as you can.

I just know that Philipp Morris was financing massive pseudeo scientific studies to proof that everyone should smoke as it's so very healthy.

Of course what's a few million US$ to buy positive study outcomes compared with Multibillion $ class action lawsuits,

424. Six Reasons to be an Atheist

Comment #108436 by Roland_F on January 6, 2008 at 10:05 pm

188. Comment #108432 by dlitt
I believe there will be a change toward atheism in two of three generations. As church attendance starts to dwindle, the religious will get more and more aggressive and threatening ....

Seeing this televangelists in USA occupying own channels and a more and more entertaining shows - I am afraid the opposite might happen. There will be a move away from boring Sunday sermons inside dusty churches - towards multi media show events. And to improve attendance rates of their flock the mainstream churches might have to adopt as well, and this will come over to Europe as well.

425. Sam Harris debate with Rabbi David Wolpe

Comment #108430 by Roland_F on January 6, 2008 at 9:16 pm

NO global warming since 1998

Weather recording for more than a century show that the last decade had 8 of the all time 10 hottest years. It's not about a single exceptional hot year or a single record summer, it's about long term trend of average temperature. And 2007 is a close runner up for the prime spot of hottest temperature ever.

To allude to scientific consensus, and then imply that the most extremist warming predictions are part of that consensus

What I said is exactly the opposite: models ranging from +3 to +10 degrees, and consensus was achieved by kicking out the higher ones and not including them into the average calculation of +4C. The +4 C is for the year 2100, not 2008.

These wild projections assume the climate is dominated by positive feedback. Over 3 billion years of life support shows the opposite is true

How can 3 billion years 'life support' show there is no positive feedback of climate ??

Ice ages and warm interludes have shown that rapid changes can happen very fast within a few years – which only can be explained by a very strong feedback

3 billion years of evolution have primarily shown that most species can go extinct – this will also include humans one day.

426. Creation college seeks state's OK to train teachers

Comment #108416 by Roland_F on January 6, 2008 at 8:00 pm

I can't convince my logic how that DNA soup came into existence in the first beginning?

I guess it should be mean primeval soup – containing all kind of organic molecules including Amino acids ??

Ingredients were : water, carbon dioxide, methane, ammonia to imitate the chemical components of early earth.

Just quote RD from the Selfish Gene page 14 (in chapter-2 'replicators')
["They have just put this simple substances in a flask and supplied a source of energy such as ultraviolet light or electric sparks – artifical simulation of primordial lightening. After a few weeks of this, something interesting is usually found inside the flask: a weak brown soup containing a large number of molecules more complex than the first put in. In particular, amino acids have been found – the building blocks of proteins" ….]


Simple organic molecules like amino acids could be found even on meteorites, so seems to be quite common in space as well.
I just read an article that astronomers could identify the organic molecule Tholine (considered to be a basic molecule for the starting of life on early earth ) in the dust ring surrounding star HR 4796A in a distance of 220 light-years. Out of this dust-ring planets will be formed later in the development, so the ingredients of life are available even before a possible planet is formed.

427. Could there be a Darwinian Account of Human Creativity?

Comment #108404 by Roland_F on January 6, 2008 at 6:43 pm

about #227

That is as erroneous as the other commonly heard evolutionist claim that if you have doubling of chromosomes (polyploidy), that represents 'more information' (it would be like buying two copies of the same textbook and expecting to be able to learn twice as much!).

Seems that Wooter hasn't understand the sexual reproduction at all – possible just read some books from RD instead the science denying creationists websites.

Sexual reproduction is still kept from evolution besides high cost of maintaining it just enhance the chance of mixing the genes to increase the chances of survival in a fast changing environment.

I just try to give a very easy example which everybody should be able to understand without deep biological knowledge.
You install your PC with all kind of Software coming from 2 sources:
Virus scanner source-1 (McAffe, Panda) source-2 (Norton, AVG) now each source 'raffles' which one to propose for the new PC (offspring)
So Panda and Norton are copied to the new PC and only 1 (let's say Norton) is actively used.
Next is the internet browser (MS, Netscape) from source-1 and (Modzilla, MS) from source-2 …. also here a raffle.
And so on, for photo editor, text processing ….etc…

It's not "more information" you only increase a variability instead of copy everything 1:1 from a single mother source. Also if 1 software program is faulty or virus infested you still have the chance of another working code. Totally different from "buying 2 identical books to learn more".

428. Sam Harris debate with Rabbi David Wolpe

Comment #108393 by Roland_F on January 6, 2008 at 5:44 pm

313. Comment #108316 by Steve Wrathall

the Kyoto Treaty seeks to do: weaken economies and deny poor countries access to cheap, reliable energy

The biggest greenhouse gas polluter is the USA who haven't accepted Kyoto is a poor country ? Maybe in many aspects but not financially.

Access to cheap energy

Is Oil at 100$ a barrel cheap ?

Access to reliable energy

Is the biggest Oil producer Saudi Arabia (a fundamentalist Wahabism Monarchy/Theocracy) reliable ?

the weather 100 years from now will be 0.07 degrees C cooler

Actually scientist's models predicting more than 4 degrees C as average when nothing is done, some models predicting 10 degrees. The upper extreme predictions are cut out for political reasons, but testing the models based on real data of the last 20 years show that earth is warming up faster than the 'politically smoothed out' models predict and unfortunately the higher predicting models are nearer to the real data.
Drilling samples from Arctic ice show the concentration of CO. It can be shown as ppm (part per million) or you simply convert into absolute amount of CO2 in billion tons. During the ice ages the atmosphere had 400 billion tons, during the inbetween warm phases 600. Now we are already at 814, target of all discussions is 1000 or more lax targets of 1200. Actually nobody has an idea how earth will look like when the 1200 is sustained over hundred of years.
Maybe our current 800 is already far to high and it's already too late.

This would be of course good news for faithful people as the 'end of days' of Armageddon and with it the return of Christ is coming nearer.

429. The OUT Campaign has its own Flea!

Comment #108128 by Roland_F on January 6, 2008 at 4:45 am

I am living in a very catholic country (90% of population) and the very religious people are very much liars, betrayers and kleptomaniacs. It's perceived as acceptable when you steal but donate 5% to the priest, and if you donate 10% of the booty you are a saint.

I am looking forward for working for a few months again in a very secular country, where if I loose my cell phone in the taxi, then the driver brings it back all the way to the office where he dropped me (rejecting any reward), a laptop forgotten in the train is still there in the trainsstation lost & found counter.

In TGD there was also the example that most religious and republican dominated US states have a much higher crime rate. So in real life the catholic faith seems to be undermining morale !

430. Could there be a Darwinian Account of Human Creativity?

Comment #108122 by Roland_F on January 6, 2008 at 4:19 am

Unfortunately Wooter is not reading the replies with explanations given to his posted cut & paste articles.

Reason and logic does not accept anything EITHER that beautiful snowflakes came out by trial and error

The always different structure of snowflakes based on trial and error ?! Freezing of ice crystal's has nothing to do with evolution, as evolution is about life not 'dead' freezing water.
Beside this, Chaos theory is very well able to fully understand, explain and reproduce these always different shapes of snowflakes as I mentioned before in an earlier reply – no God needed.

I proved many times that body without a soul is a clump of flesh

How can this be proved ?? What about all kind of living things from virus, bacteria up to all animals – they are all alive not a 'clump of flesh' even they all don't have a soul !

Have you ever seen a building without a builder? ….etc…

This argument is so old……

Under another topic discussion I already replied and made examples of UNITELLIGENT DESIGN (backward eye, crossing of feed pipe and wind pipe). So just reverse the game: how would you design it much better as it is now -- if someone with the limited human abilities is already able to propose a very much better design for the vertebrate eye, or our windpipe crossing and all the other examples, than the all knowing, perfect God has designed it, then the designer must have had a very bad day indeed. Ergo => UNITELLIGENT DESIGN.

The only reply I've got from the UID preachers is that it's all so stupid by purpose – because of 'the fall' (sin of Adam & Eve). The punishment was hard work for males and birth pain for females, not imperfect design (cretionist can't even read the first page of the Bible). Also according to Genesis the fall was AFTER all animals and the first humans were created already very poorly designed.

431. Sam Harris debate with Rabbi David Wolpe

Comment #108089 by Roland_F on January 6, 2008 at 2:44 am

# 293 (108052) :

there has been and can be no proper response to the argument that Jesus, in a way, invented compassion

Buddhism's focal point is compassion for ALL sentiment beings (including for animals) and Buddhism is 2500 years old, e.g. 500 years before Jesus.
Beside that everybody wants to be loved and accepted and therefore loves and accept others as 'tit for tat' – independent from Jesus occurrence.

About that myth that moral is exclusively possible and valid with a religion as background. Do we really depend on a higher godly instance as policemen to be moral?

And we have to see the Bible as a whole, not just cherry pick single positive and forget all the negative elements. Who anyhow feels competent to make this judgment of cherry picking ? So God's word is sometime morally acceptable and sometimes not acceptable --- oops !!
So the decision what is morally acceptable inside the Bible is therefore made form some judge based on external not Biblical morality principles !!
Ergo we don't need the Bible as moral ground, because a case to case decision which parts are moral or not have to be made based on external value system of moral.

Additionally there is a very big difference between 'theory and practice' and we can judge and compare only the real life. It reminds me of the theoretical almost philosophical debates about political systems, how wonderful and perfect communism is in theory (everybody is equal, equal distribution of capital for all etc..). We are living in a real world and we have to compare real existing systems and how they follow their theoretical ideas in practice.
So the same is valid for religions, their real existing manifestations are the Christian churches or Islamic theocracies. And in this real world scenarios, there is very few morale to be seen. Instead it's an all too bloody trail throughout history, filled with double morale standards and hypocrisies.

432. Sam Harris debate with Rabbi David Wolpe

Comment #108044 by Roland_F on January 5, 2008 at 10:26 pm

# 196 _J_

About the big flood:

And, even laying aside that minor technicality, there is absolutely no sign that it happened. Again it's Sagan's dragon, the FSM and Russell's teapot. You might as well believe in the Global Predatory Nylon Sock Outbreak ….

A global flood somewhere 2300-2500BC have to leave so many traces that historians, archeologist geologist have to stumble over evidence all over the world. There is quite a difference to find Nylon socks from 1311AD or a small invisible teapot compared to a global flood with water levels anywhere between 20 feet above the highest mountain e.g. 8850m + 6m.

Just to give some examples about what science can trace down: Geologist were able to find all over the world traces from high Iridium concentrations in strata 65 Million years old, and they could trace the source to Yucatan Mexico from a meteor hit.
Volcanic ash samples from 35,000 years ago found all over the world could be traced to a super volcano in Sumatra.
From drilling samples of arctic ice-cores the weather pattern of the last 2 Million years can be traced down, ocean temperature can be traced same with drilling samples of the seafloor.
Sediment samples of Babylon near Euphrates & Tigris river delta showed some local flood and the sequence.
Sea levels during Ice age was 140m lower, and if global warming will melt all ice sheets water level would rise no more than 70m.
History records exists in Egypt without gap, nothing destroyed from a flood. And so on …..

=> using all this methods there was never a global flood around 2300BC and especially none with water 8856m above sea level and there is not enough water on earth anyhow. So this is a "minor technicality" for a hardcore cretinist?

So what is your only evidence ? Some over generations verbally spread hearsays, scribbled down some when 700-750BC on some sheepskins, patched, modified during copy, reassembled to a 'Pentateuch book' in Babylonian exile after 587BC e.g.

So just imagine a court case to establish who committed a crime: Your defending: I have a book showing there is a little goblin who is doing all this naughty things, and I have full faith in the book so it is true and it was the goblin who did it !
Now Prosecution is presenting their evidence: you were seen on the scene, your footprints were found there, soil was found on your shoes, your fingerprints are found, DNA samples matching yours …etc…
No it must be the little Goblin I have full faith in the book, forget all your 'evidence' it is just technicalities and can't be counted when they are not mentioned in the book!

433. Researchers use neuroimaging to study ESP

Comment #108023 by Roland_F on January 5, 2008 at 8:42 pm

These stories about telepathy popping up regular. Like someone is 'feeling' the same event like a physically remote but emotionally close person (not only twin but also siblings, lovers etc…) .
Somewhere I read this can be explained with statistics probability: a million times someone has a bad dream, the right leg is itching etc.. and it is not related to any parallel occurrence of another person. The million and first time you have the itching pain in your right leg and at the same time tour brother hit his right leg in an accident : gosh ! A miracle this must be ESP.
No it's not – just from billions of daily events occurring for all the people on the planet a few are occurring parallel, where events which could be with much fantasy considered as similar and therefore related (broken leg in an accident person-1 and itching leg of person-2). It's just about probability like Uri Geller stopping watches, just the mechanical clockwork stops or the battery runs out regular let's say 1% of the time when you have an audience of millions of TV viewers there will be thousand which clock just stopped from alone – not because Uri Geller's magical paranormal abilities.

Some own story: many years ago our family was on a 3 week holiday and the day we come back the cat was behaving nervous and exited like she feel we are coming home this day. Magic ? Not real grandma who looked for the cat and water flowers etc. just changed the daily routine e.g. switch on the fridge, put on bed sheets, clean, …. No magic just the cat realized something is going on.

434. Stop House Resolution 888

Comment #107985 by Roland_F on January 5, 2008 at 6:56 pm

The Resolution 888 is just the start, after the presidential election favoring God's candidate and the transformation of the USA into a Taliban state, this will be the redesign of your cabinet ministries :


Ministry of Defense => changed to 'Ministry of holy crusade'
Ministry of Education => changed to 'Ministry of theological teachings'
Ministry of Homeland security => changed to 'Ministry of true virtue and faith'
Ministry of justice => changed to 'Ministry of Inquisition'

God bless America !!

I am living far away but these developments in your country are scaring the hell out of me.

435. A War On Science

Comment #107981 by Roland_F on January 5, 2008 at 6:19 pm

You guys seem to get very emotional and insulting about these issues

When someone is only reacting emotional and not rational and deny accepting any scientific, historical, archeological evidence etc. this are the cretionists. The atheists here are very rational arguing even when confronted with irrational pseudo arguments or outright nonsense.
The cretionists issues throw in here (like complex eye must be designed) are all at least 30 years old and long ago scientifically countered.

On another topic in this forum the big flood and Noa's Arc were seriously scientifically discussed. There is just some old unproven fairy tail story thrown into the ring and still atheist try to take it seriously and evaluate possibility and implications. Where does all the water come from, how all animals fitting in the arc, geological evidence of sediments, how can humanity increase so fast from a single couple…. Actually it's the repeated time the first (or last) remaining humans have to inbreed.

The religious fundamentalists are the emotional and aggressive people, science was suppressed for millennia and now creationist try to pull us back into this dark ages.
The God according to the Bible makes only sense under the assumption the earth is the center of the universe (sun & stars moving around it) and the homo sapiens is the pinnacle of all creatures in the entire universe. When Copernicus, Kepler, Bruno, Galilee corrected the anthropocentric worldview which is basic condition of a Christian religion, they were tortured or killed.

Based on current scientific knowledge the earth is just a tiny 5 billion years old dust spec, circling around a ordinary star like billions of them exists alone in our galaxy all located somewhere in the 14 billion year old universe. The homo sapiens is not the pinnacle of creatures (created as a copy of God himself) but just some evolutionary developed species, which will go extinct some day like millions of species before.
=> And now take the Bible: an all knowing God who created the entire universe 14 billion years ago is just coming down to one single (out of billionbillion solar & planetary systems) on this tiny dust spec called planet earth 4000 years ago e.g. in the year 13,999,996,000 there interconnecting only to a small middle east desert tribe and make a convent with them as chosen people.
Does that not sound ridiculous ?!

Historians and Archeologist also investigated the history of the Bible: it's a collection of just so stories, re-written, patched, modified from scribes, has translation errors, distortion like Chinese whisper (my brother has said, his friend has said, that his sister has heard…..).
So main stream Christian religion (including the Vatican) give up this literal interpretation of the Bible especially the 6 days Genesis 4000BC and bend over backwards somehow to include a more deist approach of God to include an more universal meaning.
So the cretionists are the ones who are outside all modern scientific knowledge from Geology, history, astronomy, cosmology, physic, biology ….
When this folks are immune from any rational argument and are interfering with my life and the education of my children I will be indeed very emotional and aggressive.
And religious people of whatever faith (Brahma, Yahweh, Allah, Xeno, Odin and the like ) were far to long able to hide pampered and shielded from being criticized.

436. A War On Science

Comment #107711 by Roland_F on January 5, 2008 at 3:27 am

Their style is to endlessly repeat thirty year old crapola that they don't understand

Exactly my impression, so why are you long time bloggers don't ignore them like the 'doorbell tortures' visiting you like the Moron's (oops Mormons) and Jehovah's witness and the like ??
Seems totally fruitless like 'teaching Algebra to your dog' as someone mentioned.
They don't understand and don't want to understand, and they seem to consider this onesided discussions just as sport to test and proof their faith.

437. A War On Science

Comment #107707 by Roland_F on January 5, 2008 at 3:03 am

I am quite new to this discussion forum - are all 'cretinists' = Unintelligent design preachers showing up here so childish ignorant - or do they just make fun out of us and throw some rubbish into the ring to keep us busy ??

438. A War On Science

Comment #107704 by Roland_F on January 5, 2008 at 2:56 am

Because the mechanisms of mutation and natural selection are going the wrong way--downhill, not uphill.

Mutations are going either way : up or down - some could be beneficial some are harmful. Natural selection (of the best fitting) can only go uphill ! everything not fitted to current environment conditions will be eliminated.
Basics of evolution elementary school, grade 1.

Therefore Evolution can never go downhill from a suboptimum to reach a distant global optimum -- that's why we have all this Unintelligent Design – and not because a perceived creator is Unintelligent designing (of course by pupose because of Adams sins….).

439. Sadly, an Honest Creationist

Comment #107699 by Roland_F on January 5, 2008 at 2:32 am

They treat the Bible like the Nazi's used Mein Kampf

I have to say unfortunately very few Germans have read Mein Kampf before going to 1933 elections ! It is full of brainless rubbish very open not disguised under some science smokescreen. Very plain rubbish identifiable as such even for every uneducated low level farmer/worker who has difficulties writing his own name.
Some Germans excuses mentioned were it was not Hitler himself so evil it was the bad influence of others (Goebbels, Himmler…) – rubbish when you read his book you see his mindset. So instead prohibiting the book in Germany (I got my English copy in Bangalore India – lost in-between and I give up reading after 20%) they should allow to read it, so everyone with an IQ above 75 (this level allows peeling a banana) could see the brainless crap.

When I remember it right the 'final solution' (Endloesung) of Zionism e.g. Holocaust were mentioned. That he (Hitler) is just performing 'the fulfillment of God's will' – so much about catholic faith as moral 'high' ground, and the recurring claim Hitler was atheist.

440. Sadly, an Honest Creationist

Comment #107690 by Roland_F on January 5, 2008 at 2:05 am

I was just entering this Forum discussions during this year (2008) -- I am astonished that the few religious people and Unintelligent design promoting guys are that poor in discussing.
They just cut and paste a stupid article or just paste the link. They are not able to simply summarize the idea in their Blog and expect us to read a 20 page article full of complex 'as is' descriptions from a schoolbook. And even there their (brightest ?) UID (UnIntelligent Design) preachers just set up a smokescreen of schoolbook knowledge over many pages to pretend knowledge and include some unproven hypotheses or unfounded denials in the middle.

For me it seems to validate the very poor own knowledge of the topic discussed (hexagonal snowflakes, designed eye … discussions I participated so far). Every argument is just ignored or 'countered' with a new nonsense link or unfitting Bible verse – so they proof they don't know anything about the issue themselves.

And even Bible quotes (just mention the place – not the content) are totally out of context like 'the fall' e.g. the sin of Adam & Eve as reason for UID.

Very very sad indeed that these UID guys are able to influence the science school curriculum of my kids !

441. Sam Harris debate with Rabbi David Wolpe

Comment #107658 by Roland_F on January 4, 2008 at 11:36 pm

The sport events and how supporters follow their team are just a replacement of modern mainly in the office sitting humans for the prehistoric team hunting.

Religion is more the using the inroad of motherly/fatherly love and protection desire, and the 'fear factor' of a jealous God (punishment, hellfire…) reinforcing the search for protection by God.
The most submissive & obedience young animals were conditioned as a result of a tests when the superior 'mother/father' figure was erratically changing his interaction from nice & protective to aggressive and back to nice again. The religious indoctrinators have cashed in perfectly on this conditioning in humans.

When humans are the 'Eternal child' (read the book from Clive Brohmhal) e.g. the premature born ape who never or very slowly grows up and stays childish until adulthood, then there is no wonder so many people feel the need for protection from higher being. This explains also the immunity from rational arguments and the child like emotional affection to God as protector.

Cure against this religious virus? None !! ….
or very radically approach (not meant seriously) : you would have to use a medication to reduce the production from Promine of the Thymus gland (is supposed to be only active during infancy anyway). This would be resulting finally that the person grows up, stand on their own feed and master the life alone without the strong desire for a divine being as protector.

442. Sam Harris debate with Rabbi David Wolpe

Comment #107628 by Roland_F on January 4, 2008 at 9:22 pm

Why not using meditation just as way to 'relax the brain' clear the mind and the relax the permanent data processing of the frontal lobes.
Just meditate (I don't practice it) doesn't mean believe in reincarnation or the 'interconnectedness of all sentiment beings' = 'Emptiness'.
And you can light a candle without being religious.

Read the book of the Dalai Lama 'The Art of Happiness' it's not about Buddhist doctrine but about really positive thinking, see how insignificant the small daily problems are, deeper satisfaction and goal oriented life etc.. without referring to any higher spirit (or deity).

There was already brain scan research done (on Buddhist monks) under deep meditation to see what's going on in the brain, but I haven't heard about the outcome.
I am still hoping for the brain scan of the theists (was one forum topic here in December). Scan Papa Ratzi all his cardinals during faith related questions which self contradicting Bible verses etc… and expose they are liars and hypocrites - that would be fun.

443. Sadly, an Honest Creationist

Comment #107596 by Roland_F on January 4, 2008 at 7:47 pm

About the Myth spread from Creationists (preachers of UNINTELLIGENT design) that the evolution of the eye has 'never been explained'.
Actually I read the explaniation already as teenage boy in the 1970s. There is the book from Hoimar von Ditfurth "Der Geist viel nicht vom Himmel" -- there might be an English version, however the evolution of the eye is most likely explained in several other books.

In short it all started with Euglena 3 billion years ago, with a simple one celled organism which uses photosynthesis as energy source – so actually it's a plant. Just a tiny pigment spot created a shadow and the flagellum steered towards light. Chemical composition (purple) is still showing that the current vertebrate eyes still using the same components. Light sensitive cells assembled at the front (flatworms), overcoming the problem of abrasion they caved in (mollusk), the cave got deeper and deeper and closed up leaving just a hole (nautilus). Because the hole was frequently clogged with some particles evolution preferred transparent pigment-less skin to close it up, this skin subsequent developed into the lens. All is possible within billions of years – of course it can not happen in a single Genesis day e.g. between 22 – 28 February 4022 B.C. when God was creating everything according to these Nut's.

About the links to IS websites: somehow I still like to understand the mindset of this people and how they act and argue. A technical detailed description of a complex 'as is' feature to impress and show competence - and then jumping unsupported to the conclusion it must be God's design.

444. Sadly, an Honest Creationist

Comment #107594 by Roland_F on January 4, 2008 at 7:45 pm

Genesis 1.26 : and then God said and now we will make human beings, they will be like us and resemble us'. Since when is God 'US' – wrong translation or it's a polytheist deity ??

Genesis 1.27 So God created human beings making them to be like himself.

==>> So as humans are a complete copy of God himself – God must be indeed very incomplete and imperfect himself.

445. Sadly, an Honest Creationist

Comment #107584 by Roland_F on January 4, 2008 at 7:35 pm

The biblical worldview explains why there are imperfections in this world: they are due to the Fall--i.e. the willful rejection by the first two humans of the Creator's authority over their lives. Sound familiar?

First : please read the Bible (Genesis first version) sequence is animals are created before humans !
Second : read Genesis second version (by the way contradicting Genesis V-1) Adam and Eve were created BEFORE the fall. So the imperfection was already existing before the fall !!
Third: The UNINTELLIGENT DESIGN is all over the animal kingdom, beside the sequence problem mentioned under (1) and (2) what have the animals (created before humans) to suffer from imperfection because human fall ??

You want to start (pseudo) scientific IS discussions on Bible grounds and don't know the Bible ?!?!

446. Sadly, an Honest Creationist

Comment #107559 by Roland_F on January 4, 2008 at 6:36 pm

I read the links mentioned in # 80:
The first link is just describing the 'as is' of a complex eye not evaluate possible developments and the article simply denies that 5% sight is better than 1% eye sight. Look into the animal kingdom and you find all stages of light sensitive cells from less than 1% up to 100%.
The second link to the article of the miraculous healed risen from the death bed (and therefore converted ?) Dr. George Marshall as eye specialist : about the seemingly stupid design of the backward wired eye e.g. nerves pointing forward and make an U-turn back though a whole and resulting in the blind spot (disrupting 0.25% of visual field). All this strange design is by purpose e.g. easier replacement of dying cells ?!
But what can you expect from someone who is quoted there: ["On not literally accepting the Genesis account of creation one is left with a major problem—what Scriptures do you accept as true and what Scriptures do you reject as false? Only by accepting the whole of Scripture as the inspired Word of God does one avoid this dilemma "]

The third link I followed from posting # 85 about Squid eye:
The vertebrate eye is inverted to protect from the bleaching effect of sunlight, which is not needed deep under water for the squid so the forward design is ok.

Dear Cretionists (is the 'a' missing in some postings by purpose distorting the Creationist ?)
Don't try to explain imperfections away and just ask some Eye specialist instead how he would design a perfect eye !
Possibly it's still inverted cells but attach the nerve ends on the opposite site (inside) or make the U-turn very tight along each single cell, so a combination of all positive features without setback of blind spot.
An all knowing perfect God as designer can not find the simple proper solution much better designed than this vertebrate eye – come on give me a brake !!

And can Cretionists explain the reason why the esophagus (feed pipe) is crossing the trachea (wind pipe) – resulting in very dangerous situations like food entering the lungs , suffocations etc…
There are thousand of other examples like rudimentary limps of animals which don't need them any more, retarded eyes of cave dweller …etc… what is the purpose of designing this for the current environment useless features ?

Sorry all this is very UNINTELLIGENT DESIGN !!!

447. Could there be a Darwinian Account of Human Creativity?

Comment #107504 by Roland_F on January 4, 2008 at 4:28 pm

Comment 206 (# 107119) :
Yes of course the pressure makes all this circles (moving fluids, bee's honeycomb) to hexagons. Good morning - ok it was late yesterday evening when I posted it.

The hexagonal shape is the first gap free shape when you fill a plain with many same shaped objects. Circles leave gaps, Octagons leave small square gaps and the hexagon is the first shape reached from expanding circles, which can fill the whole plain without gaps. So Hexagon is no God given magic, God's favorite shape or so, just simply the optimal shape (optimum as ratio circumference – space).

As mentioned the hexagon , macro shape of snowflakes com from the 105 degree Angle of the H2O molecule nearest to 120 degree angle of a hexagon. The all different shapes of snowflakes were earlier explained by Chaos theory and can be reproduced by computer programs - no magic or proof of God. Just that molecule structure and Chaos theory were only known centuries after Kepler.

Another example for this Religion of gaps: I can't understand or explain one thing so it must be 'proof' of God's work….

To quote Nietzsche (Also sprach Zarathustra) : " and the spirit of this preachers was full of gaps, and in the biggest gap they placed their gap filler which they called God" .

448. Changing my Mind

Comment #107113 by Roland_F on January 4, 2008 at 5:34 am

QSTER:
Homeopathy is working -- but 'only' as placebo effect. You could also take candies instead Arnica pills.

Mainstream Homeopathy is propagating the use of totally diluted substances (mainly Arnica and a few others) so chemical analysis would not reveal any substance at all. There is just that the "positive energy is transferred from Arnica to the water molecules' even if the solution is watered down unlimited then the few already positive influenced water molecules copy this positive energy to the new water molecules etc…. through all the cycles.

Even acupuncture seems to be only based on the placebo effect. The double blind tests performed revealed that (1) wrongly positioned needles, correctly positioned but not pierced needles and (3) according to teaching applied needles had all the same effect : placebo !

My sister hold a very similar believe mix: visit Hindu Guru's , Yoga, Buddhist meditation, esoteric, study of homeopathic, shamanism, this positive energy staff with copper arm rings to shield negative energy, hanging pebbles at the window to keep the positive energy in the room etc….

For me this is just a replacement of God with instead some concept of 'interconnectedness of all sentiment beings' , 'Emptiness' or Nirvana.

449. Could there be a Darwinian Account of Human Creativity?

Comment #107109 by Roland_F on January 4, 2008 at 4:59 am

Snowflakes hexagonal shape are proof of God and the Bible ?!

How can a geometric shape of crystallizing water be the ultimate proof a book telling assembled fairy tales from different authors over hundreds of years? Where are hexagonal snowflakes mentioned in the Bible?

Possible it's a hexagonal shape because water molecules H2O have a central Oxygen atom and 2 Hydrogen atoms attached in an angle of 105 degrees, when I remember my chemical class from 30 years ago. Possibly somehow this molecule structure is influencing a hexagonal shape of the macro structure.
Also 'moving fluids' (sorry no other term mentioned in my Chaos book) when heated up form hexagonal bubbles. Also bees storing their honey and pollen in hexagonal shaped compartments, might all this just point to some geometric advantage (stability, surface – volume ration etc…) of hexagonal shapes and not to God ?

Also these hexagonal snowflakes (not simple triangular Koch Snowflakes) can be reproduced from computer programs. Quote from the book 'Chaos' from James Gleick (page 313-314) : [" Snowflakes are nonequilibrium phenomena, the flow turns a boundary into a tip, the tip into an array of branches, the array into a complex structure never before seen. As scientist have discovered, such instability obeying the universal law of chaos, they have succeeded in applying the same method to host a physical and chemical problem and inevitably they suspect that biology is next. " ].

Seems a universal law of Chaos, not Gods law.
Do now all religious people have now to realign their prayer and worship the computer (or the programmer) which can reproduce hexagonal snowflake design ?

450. The Pagan Christ

Comment #107041 by Roland_F on January 4, 2008 at 1:42 am

The DNA strands are so long it will be difficult to see and check the entire genome if it's complete and not disassemled into pieces. Let's say it's like a compuer program: you send the source code an a medium and you have to install it on the poper environment. And then you activate it by installing it in the proper place. Checkin if all the code is still in place and not single bits destroyed will be very difficult.

Maybe not a perfect example but remplace the CD with egg, seed, the poper place in the harddrive directory with the proper environment (warm wet soil, or egg incubator)