401. Ayaan Hirsi Ali to get EU protection

Comment #136378 by Richard Morgan on March 1, 2008 at 3:32 am

capeslacker

"Enjoyed" in this context merely means to possess and benefit from, as opposed to take delight or pleasure in.

Anybody willing to take turns with me in reposting this from time to time?
I can understand how this use of the verb "to enjoy" can cause problems for people whose mother tongue is not English.

402. Fleabytes

Comment #136360 by Richard Morgan on March 1, 2008 at 1:33 am

Steve Zara

I was trying to see if I could drag this thread back on topic...

Is it possible to get to 2000 posts by staying on topic?
Herding cats and all that...
I still say that this thread has been a mostly nice place these last few days.
Incidentally - how's your cold?
I worry about your recurring colds.

403. Fleabytes

Comment #135743 by Richard Morgan on February 29, 2008 at 8:45 am

Steve Zara :

Apparently English can speak French!

For the first time, Steve, you have posted a flagrant falsehood.
Notre ami Brian l'Anglais sait parler le Français un peu comme moi, je sais être gentil - c'est à dire rarement, au prix des efforts pénibles et avec très peu de succés.

404. Fleabytes

Comment #135737 by Richard Morgan on February 29, 2008 at 8:39 am

The lovable Steve Zara

The rest of this post basically contained zero content

Bless your soul, you've almost found a mathematical formula for describing God : Zero content that can be contained whilst remaining zero.
You're an unwitting genius.
There are lots of things that don't exist, but people don't know about them.
Forest Missed :

I was being incredibly thick and not seeing it on the page in front of me.

Are you this thread's first honest theist? Congratulations!
epeeist

I am speaking as someone who has been accused of being fundamentalist, irrational, gullible, having no sense of humour and a liar by DR

I hope he also saw your negative side.

I think it would be fairer to say that Christians believe that people are beautiful, but flawed.

You mean they don't know how to Photoshop?

405. Taking evidence seriously

Comment #135408 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 11:18 pm

Juxtamonkey :

Bush has actually tried to be nice to these people to the demise of our own soldiers

I'm going to be honest with you - it broke my heart to read this hateful remark.
"to be nice to these people"? Are you serious when you say that?

when Bush declared war the plan should have continued to bomb the fuck out of Iraq and get the fuck out.

Bomb the fuck out of Iraq? I suppose you don't realise that this sort of monstrous Rambo-type attitude doesn't help improve the global reputation of the "average" American". Too many people expect to hear you saying stuff like that. Thousands of Iraqi women and children having the "fuck" bombed out of them?
I don't "hate" you juxtamonkey, but these brutal remarks make me want to weep...

406. Fleabytes

Comment #135139 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 3:11 pm

Have you noticed what a nice place this thread becomes when David isn't around?

407. Earth's Final Sunset Predicted

Comment #135136 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 3:08 pm

Is this all about the film or the video game?
7.6 billion years? Hang on while I note it in my Palm Planner...er, ...

408. Fleabytes

Comment #135123 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 2:53 pm

Bryan Anglais :

I leave this thread for little more than 12 hours and come back to find a cornucopia of genius, hilarity, bestiality (Quetz, Anna, Irate, et al. get a farm with an aquarium and leave the poor wombats alone), serious discussion (especially RM and Paula), some fucktardiness (clairpenser), and a lot of fraternity. I'm glad you guys are around. Kudos

Yep - that's what it's all about for me too.
It's all fraternity with no halitosis, flatulence or noisy eating.

409. Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence

Comment #135116 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 2:46 pm

Juxtamonkey

LMAOROTFL

Does this mean that you are now ass-less?
How sad.
Perhaps it will make rolling on the floor more comfortable, but all the same...
Have you thought about a transplant?

410. America: slouching towards the Enlightenment

Comment #135109 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 2:39 pm

The Zeitgeist is on the move.

411. Fleabytes

Comment #135085 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 2:09 pm

robotaholic:

...the Christian teaching that you're born sinful and need to be 'saved' .

This is a relatively common sales technique called "creating the need".
Rather like the wheel-chair salesman who spent his week-ends driving over people.
Invent the "sin".
Create the "guilt".
Propose a "forgiveness"deal.
But who is selling what, in this case, and why? And what is the price?
I know the answer, but I'll let y'all have a go at it first.

412. Fleabytes

Comment #134968 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 12:13 pm

Paula Kirby

The idea of humans being polluted is just disgusting.

And loathsome.
And false.
When I hear Christians talk about "fallen mankind", "humans are polluted", my reactions is, "OK, when you've finished talking about yourself, can we start talking about everybody else?"

413. Are they running for President or Pastor-in-Chief?

Comment #134908 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 10:06 am

Favourite verse in the Bible :

First verse of the fourteenth chapter of the Second Book of Kings: 'And he said, "But my brother Esau is an hairy man, but I am a smooth man."

....ever since Beyond the Fringe

414. Fleabytes

Comment #134882 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 9:33 am

Fedler :

Can I just throw in a maladjusted wombat to the fray?

No you can't. She's your mother-in-law, you deal with her yourself.

415. Fleabytes

Comment #134866 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 9:19 am

annabanana : I'll see your......whatever you're willing to show me. At my age, one can't be too picky.
EDIT : I do not recommend hymen restoration surgery : I couldn't sit down for weeks afterwards.

416. Fleabytes

Comment #134853 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 9:06 am

Paula Kirby

I've always thought NLP was terribly overrated, and that it's no coincidence that most of its practitioners seem also to be followers of one kind of woo-woo or another.

I was careful to call NLP a pseudo-science, which, at its inception proposed some interesting new insights, but which today is "woo-woo" at best, insidious, fraudulent and dangerous at worst. In the 70's and 80's there were lots of ideas floating around which rapidly grew out of all proportion and fizzled out : NLP, Primal Scream Therapy, Transactional Analysis, Gestalt Therapy, Musicotherapy and others more or less New Age woo-woo-therapy. However, many of them did open up some interesting new perspectives which remain useful today. It's a question of intelligent, cautious cherry-picking.

Are you suggesting, though, that this makes discussion between the two groups pointless? If so, I wouldn't agree.

Unfortunately, when I first posted my open letter, I forget to include the "NB This letter concerns uniquely this thread." I am heartily in favour of discussion and debate as a general rule. I happen to appreciate being shown that I am wrong, and having my mind changed. Keeps the brain active and all that.

death, whilst sad, can be faced up to with something approaching equanimity.

One's own death, or the death of a loved one? I, personally have not yet learnt how to face up to the death of a child with equanimity. Many of my religious friends, however, have been able to achieve that. I would appreciate your input on that one.

But how do you think we should proceed instead?

I don't know.
But I'm looking.
In your case, I think that just continuing to be yourself is just fine.
< humming >...just the way you are.< /humming >
Don't forget the reasoning in my letter was addressing this thread. And I had already expressed my misgivings earlier on.

417. Fleabytes

Comment #134693 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 5:46 am

Tyler Durden :

NLP on RD.net?

Where do I unsubscribe?

Hehe! Good call!

418. Fleabytes

Comment #134686 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 5:38 am

Steve Zara : As usual, I agree with you entirely. perhaps you posted before I added the NB This letter concerns uniquely this thread.
Dr Benway : If reincarnation exists I would like to come as you.

419. Fleabytes

Comment #134678 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 5:07 am

An open letter to Richard Dawkins and David Robertson.
N.B. This letter concerns uniquely this thread.


Do you remember, back in the 80's when people were talking excitedly about NLP - neuro-linguistic programming? The pseudo-science that claimed to be "an interpersonal communication model and an alternative approach to psychotherapy based on the subjective study of language, communication and personal change"?
Whatever the defects inherent in NLP, it did shed an interesting light on problems of communication.
I am thinking here about the (in)famous theory of "representational systems" - ( visual, auditory and kinesthetic) and its applications to marriage guidance counselling and sales techniques.
In the context of marital conflicts, an example often cited was that of the architect and the vet.
HE (the architect) complained that SHE (the vet) made life at home impossible for him by never putting things back in their place and being generally untidy and messy.
SHE complained that HE was obsessed with almost military orderliness and cleanliness, almost to the exclusion of personal comfort.
HE said he could never relax in a room that looked like the aftermath of a tropical storm, and SHE said she couldn't relax in a room that looked as if nobody ever lived in it.
HE said, "I fail to see the problem with a tidy room."
SHE said, "I need to feel as if the place is lived-in."
HE said, "You need to take a good look at yourself."
SHE said, "You can't understand my feelings."
THEY divorced.
Or at least they would have done, had not a Master Practitioner of NLP explained why they couldn't communicate.
The architect's representational system was predominantly visual, whereas his wife, the vet had an inner representation of external reality that was mostly kinaesthetic (feelings and sensations.)
This meant that not only were their requirements for comfort quite different, but also that their respective uses of language (as an expression of their lead representational system) did not allow them to communicate.
"You really can't see what I'm trying to say, can you?" ( see = visual)
"That's because you're such a cold, unfeeling creep." (cold, unfeeling = kinaesthetic)

They aren't speaking the same language.
Their ideas are coming from different representational systems. Almost as if one were speaking Urdu and the other, Welsh.

It must now be clear to everybody that the same problem exists in almost all attempts at communication between atheists and believers, be they discussions, debates or slanging matches which degenerate into non-overlapping hysteria. (And let us not forget that all communication is motivated by the intention to modify ideas, attitudes or behaviour. Absolutely all.)

Yes, I know, it has often been said that theists and rationalists don't use words in the same way. (And we no longer have A.J. Ayer to irritate us with his, "What do you mean by…?)
That is an important point, but to my mind, it is not the main point here.

It all comes down to feelings.
And what Steve Zara has called the "Wow!" feeling.
That sensation of intense satisfaction and exhilaration that is experienced when we gain some profound insight, when something suddenly "makes sense", when we "see the light".
When we seem to have a better grip on perceived reality. (And that's something which the human brain is always trying to do. Evolution made it that way / God made it that way.)

The "Ah, yes!" sensation.
"Isn't that wonderful!"
"Awesome!"
The sensation that so many if us regularly experience here on R.D. Net.
The sensation that others experience in religious assemblies, holy writings and through prayer and meditation.

Which brings me to my key point - what do you both have in common?
I'm going to have to guess here, but I know that you will correct me if I'm mistaken.

1. A love of truth.
2. The desire to make the world a happier place to live.
3. The desire to give life a "sense" - from external or internal sources.
4. A profound respect for living things in general and other human beings in particular.
5. A profound satisfaction from your chosen life-styles.
6. The desire to make accessible to others a source of meaning and satisfaction.
7. A love of art, literature and music.
8. A hatred of evil.
9. A revulsion for flying planes into skyscrapers and bombing abortion clinics.

The words I want to highlight here are "love", "desire", "happier", "satisfaction" and "hatred."
Feelings. Or more correctly, emotions.
We all have them.
Where they come from, how they are formed, are not questions that concern me here (though they are questions of concern.)

Somebody has said here, "Since when have feelings been considered as evidence?"
But that is the wrong question. (I have explained elsewhere that feelings play at least an equally important role in the way we live our lives, as evidence-based reality.)
For some, an unfolding religious experience will be as satisfactory as rational evidence. It will "deliver the goods" - whatever the required goods may be.
For others, rational enquiry, observation, reason and logic will be satisfying.

Somebody recently tried (unsuccessfully) to trip up Richard Dawkins with a stupid non-question :
"But what is belief?"
I would have a.j.ayared straight back at her with, "What do you mean by "belief"."
I believe in God.
Believe in yourself.
I believe in my mom.
I believe it will rain tomorrow.
I believe in life after death.
I believe you love me.
Take your pick.

Again, I'm not looking just for semantic analyses, but for the emotional charge behind that word when a given person uses it.

The neurosciences, and to a certain extent, quantum physics (which I don't understand! Don't shout at me!) have demonstrated quite clearly that we can no longer stay with the "I believe what I see" approach . "I see what I believe" is also very often the case.
But in either case, a feeling of personal satisfaction will determine our modus operandi in life.
C.S. Lewis was "surprised by joy". Surprise? Joy? Both feelings.
Satisfying the appetite for wonder? Feelings again.

An interesting question would be, "What makes faith a satisfying experience for David, and what makes (the search for) scientific truth satisfying for Richard?"

I have no intention of trying to psycho-babble an answer to that one (my psychoanalyst would not approve.)
But it seems to me that atheists and believers are the opposite ends of a broken ring-shaped continuum, and what makes interbreeding (debate and exchange, communication) impossible is that there are too many memetic differences ( the memes in question being psycho-linguistic values, the mutations often being an adaptation to the social environment..)
You do not speak the same language
Ensatina eschscholtzi : dark blotches or yellow eyes?
Herring gulls or black-backed gulls.?
Theists or atheists?

Many debates are useful, if not essential.
But flea-biting?

EDIT : But flea-baiting?

Respectfully,

Richard MORGAN

420. Are they running for President or Pastor-in-Chief?

Comment #134666 by Richard Morgan on February 28, 2008 at 4:50 am

Yssiboo

Herbs is not pronounced 'erbs. Cause it has got a f*cking 'h' in it.

Well, honestly!!!

421. Are they running for President or Pastor-in-Chief?

Comment #134513 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 11:30 pm

Politicians playing politicians' games.
So, what's new?
I LOVE AMERICA.
There - I've come out.
If the US "deeply terrifies" you to the point where you may prefer Chinese world dominance, I suggest you find your self a new psychoanalyst.
Or stop working with glue so much.

422. A Pragmatist and a Lobbyist on Atheism

Comment #134508 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 11:11 pm

Satie-fan : you don't know what you're missing!

423. Fleabytes

Comment #134505 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 11:07 pm

Brian E.

I really should be ashamed, but being shameless. I'm not.

I hope you're at least ashamed of being shameless. It's quite shameful. Which is not quite the shame thing.
Sorry,folks - just woke up after only three hours' sleep.
Do what you usually do - just ignore me and I'll go away.

424. A Pragmatist and a Lobbyist on Atheism

Comment #134403 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 6:13 pm

"definately"?
Oh dear.
But you look like a nice guy.
Being grammatically disadvantaged here will enamour you to the theists, some of whom avoid using correct grammar as if it were forbidden by their religion.
(If English is not your mother tongue, please forgive me.)

425. A Pragmatist and a Lobbyist on Atheism

Comment #134395 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 5:53 pm

AshtonBlack

it would explain the rather shoddy style (imho) of this piece. My hat is firmly off,

Now I can imagine a hat being "firmly on, but firmly "off"?
"shoddy style"..."firmly off"?
At least you're not saying "totally" all over the place?
Or "awesome".
Thank god for that.
Totally awesome.
ArGGhh

426. Fleabytes

Comment #134232 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 12:39 pm

Frankus1122

How can you use, "I feel..." as evidence?

You can't. But an awful lot of what goes on in your life is based on "I feel..."
That's a major part of our communication problem with "them".
Matt7895

I am confronted by hordes of people singing praiseful hymns to an imaginary, brutal, genocidal celestial dictator.

Yes, I'm sure they are all fully aware of singing the praises to an "imaginary, brutal, genocidal celestial dictator."
I love your avatar. Like you, I sometimes pose for photos without having a good shave first.

427. Fleabytes

Comment #134199 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 11:43 am

Anybody else here starting to suffer from acute Phleabytis?
Talk about "clots"....

428. My Argument With God

Comment #134196 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 11:39 am

epeeist : Believe it or not, I know two Americans who thought that "to be affiliated" was a clever way of talking about a particular sexual activity!!!
I hope that in the surveys, the word "affiliated" was clearly explained to all those who were questioned!

429. Feb 12th: Happy Darwin Day!

Comment #134162 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 10:47 am

Steveroot

I met my wife at a mandolin lesson!

Steve, please, I know I'm a cantankerous unpleasant old geezer, but don't blame me for everything!
(Incidentally, I am learning the mandolin because I have recently fallen in love with choro music AND I have always adored Bluegrass. (Used to be a fiddler and banjo picker)

EDIT : I doubt that "The Quoteminer's Tale: We all tell stories" did much good to any breasts anywhere.
You tell me.
If you're not familiar with the main character, the piece was inspired by A. McG.


The Quote-miner's tale.

430. Fleabytes

Comment #134151 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 10:31 am

Steve Zara

Show that belief without evidence is a flawed approach for the understanding of reality.

Whose reality? Ours or theirs?
Unfortunately, in many cases, reality, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
Steve, I think you need to take us a little further in understanding your use of the word "reality".
Or not.

431. Feb 12th: Happy Darwin Day!

Comment #134037 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 6:49 am

annabanana :

hehehe...

Like you, I appreciate the intellectually motivating contents of these threads.
Thank you so much for your contribution.


( It's nasty-time here in Morganland. Should be over in about ten minutes.)

432. The Giant Tortoise's Tale

Comment #134015 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 6:28 am

phasmagigas

She shrieked and asked 'why would god make such an ugly creature?'

Could you be a little more precise please? Was she reacting to the tarantula or you?

433. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #133934 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 3:23 am

Steve Zara

"...for me one of the great joys of life is that AHA! moment ...."
"I had such a feeling when I finally understood..."
"...to get them to the stage where they can experience that leap in understanding."

Exactly!
At the end of the day, that's what it's all about, I supppose.
Feelings.

434. The Giant Tortoise's Tale

Comment #133882 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 2:09 am

Steve Zara :

I just wanted to provoke some discussion.

All alone in the house?
Got another bad cold...again?
I know the feeling.
Have you noticed how often you type "wHere" instead of "were"?
Oh, and thanks for reminding me about the excellent music used in Cosmos. But in my defence, I just have to point out that Pachelbel, Bach, Vivaldi and Shostakovitch are, well...absolutely brilliant, and I'm not.
Quite simple really.
(For the cold, try honey in your mint tea.)

435. The Giant Tortoise's Tale

Comment #133868 by Richard Morgan on February 27, 2008 at 1:51 am

Mitchell Gilks

From what I did read, you seem to be saying, you didn't like the comparison, ergo, I'm a moron?

I'm glad you asked the question, MG. No, I don't think you are a moron. It was just my way of being rude because I was upset. (I get upset rather too easily I'm afraid.)
But to come on to Richard Dawkins' site and say, "Nice film, but not as good a Sagan's Cosmos." struck me as, well, not very nice.
Those who know me here, know that I am quite the opposite of a "fanboy". They also know I am a cantankerous ol' sod, and regularly tell me off about it, bless'em. Adhomin'em.

Logicel :

Archipelagoes within archipelagoes.
Islands within islands.

Yes, the poetry of those expressions struck me also. In fact I almost chose one of them as a title for my music, before deciding on "Tortoises do float."
I preferred the latter for it's Lewis Carroll feeling, whereas "islands within islands" was a little reminiscent of Joni Mitchell or Rory Gallagher.
Watch this space.

436. The Giant Tortoise's Tale

Comment #133811 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 9:41 pm

Oops - I forgot the key word in that first sentence!

I found the unfavourable comparisons....

"...I'm sorry but I don't think cosmos can be beaten."
"...but I simply can't conceive of Cosmos being outdone, though I hope for that day that it is. "
etc.
Thanks for pointing that out to me, Styrer!

437. The Giant Tortoise's Tale

Comment #133808 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 9:19 pm

EDIT : I found the unfavorable comparisons with Cosmos to be in rather poor taste, here, on Richard Dawkins' site.
I was going to start PMing people, then I realised one of the posters was somebody who needed the evolution of life explained to him more than 36 times.
Enough said.

438. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #133799 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 8:16 pm

Steve Zara :

My vertigo has meant that I stand in fear of bridges that aged ladies and gentlemen walk over calmly.

Well, that's an easy one. Just avoid bridges that have elderly people walking across them.
Seriously, for many years, I had a vertigo problem. Couldn't stand on a chair alone to change a light bulb, or look over the edge of reality into the dizzying depths of creationism, stuff like that.
Today I am completely cured.
In 2003 I did a 90 metre Bungee jump off the Napoleon Bridge in Luz Saint Sauveur near Lourdes.
It was absolutely the most paralysingly, testicle-freezingly terrifying experience of my life so far.
But it worked - my vertigo has disappeared. I can now hang out of 20th storey windows to clean the shutters and ogle the neighbour's wife, AND read Robertson and creationist literature without getting dizzy.
Try it yourself sometime.

439. The Giant Tortoise's Tale

Comment #133794 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 7:46 pm

Lovely!
I'm working on my next composition.
The title leapt out at me from the narrative : "Tortoises do float."

440. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #133587 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 11:56 am

Polydactyl :

Incidentally, I fall into Richard's category of someone who once used to believe, and now no longer does. I embraced atheism with considerable regret.

I was going to reply to you in a PM, then I realised that so doing would have been nothing less than crass cowardice.
As an atheist, I am relieved at not having to try to believe and have faith any more.
But, like you, I have regrets. Truth can be a cruel sod.
Unlike you, I didn't "embrace" atheism; becoming an atheist is more of a "letting go" than embracing.
I was able to handle letting go of Santa Claus without too much difficulty, even though I was still only 23 at the time. (lol)
But for people like me, who are not psychologically programmed for being happy (thank god for Prozac and Brazilian beaches) who have previously found immense comfort in the human experience of "religious fellowship", realising that there are no gods has left an empty space in me that is not easy to fill.
My wife helps.
This site helps me enormously (I have hinted at this before).
But I freely confess that I am here more for the "fellowship" than anything else.
I am here for Richard Dawkins, Steve Zara, Paula Kirby, Brian English, Diancanu, Goldy, Dr Benway, juxta_monkey, irate_atheist, epeeiste, (Veronique and Yorker) and now, perhaps...you.
There - the truth will out.
It just did.
But it doesn't make me feel any better...


PS Set your Character encoding to Unicode (UTF-8) to eliminate the hieroglyphics.
PPS Steve Zara - you'd better not try telling my Algerian wife that mint tea is not "proper-tea." She could have a few things to say about the properties of "proper tea"... (the a la menthe ...delicieux!)

441. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #133575 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 11:32 am

Steve Zara : You said to wooter :

Think about it.

For a gentle person like yourself, I find this very unkind.
Sorry I don't remember how to say it in English, but in French we say
"A l'impossible, nul n'est tenu."


EDIT : Something like "Nobody is expected to accomplish the impossible."

442. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #133378 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 6:34 am

the parents of my daughter's boyfriend are coming to visit us shortly. They hail from Arkansas. Could you suggest some good topics of conversation?

I happen to know for a fact that there at least two subjects that would go down well with people from Arkansas:
1. Your daughter's boyfriend;
2.Xylocaris maculipennis.

Here's hoping that the two subjects are non-overlapping magisteria.

443. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #133374 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 6:28 am

irate_atheist

I married a Vicar's daughter.

OK. Wedding ring species.
I hope you are able to breed satisfactorily.

444. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #133317 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 4:03 am

Since I have been inundated by requests for my Dawkins-inspired musical creations (the number was doubled this morning when I received two more!!!) I have decided to make them all available via one link:


Morgan's Music




Enjoy.

445. Feb 12th: Happy Darwin Day!

Comment #133315 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 3:59 am

Since compliments on my Dawkins-inspired musical creations have been pouring in by the three, I have decided to make them all accessible via one link.



Morgan's Music




Completely free until the Opening Ceremony of the Rapture.

446. Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence

Comment #133313 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 3:55 am

Since compliments on my Dawkins-inspired musical creations have been pouring in by the three, here's a link where you can get them all in one go:


Morgan's Music



Enjoy! Completely free until the Opening Day of the Rapture

447. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #133310 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 3:51 am

Since compliments for my RD-inspired musical "creations" have been pouring in by the three, here is a link to get them all :



Morgan's Music


Enjoy while it's still free! ( Closure date : the beginning of the Rapture.)

448. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #133248 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 1:23 am

Brian (Bloodshot) English :

Belief is something that is amenable to being mapped into brain states, and thus while not easy, is probably not a hard problem. I may be wrong on this, so fire away Richard.

You're right, but I'm not wrong either.
"Belief" is a hard problem (though obviously not on the same scale as Pinker's hard problem in the mystery of consciousness) when it comes to attempts at effective communication between us and them.
Let me explain:
I have recently attentively read ALL of the conversion stories in Converts Corner because I am looking for cases where "true" believers have become "true" rationalists/atheists.
So I had to exclude all the stories which included sentences like:

Mind you, I've never been a real Christian.

I always knew I didn't believe it, but I just didn't know what I could do about it.

I was never able to fully swallow all the scriptures, the concept of the trinity has always been slippery to say the least.

I have always been sceptical of all religion for as long as I can remember.

The God Delusion did not make me do an about face in my religious beliefs, because I didn't really have any…

From the earliest age, I realised I was different this manifesting itself in the ability to think freely,

My own case is similar to theirs : with hindsight I realise that I never lost any beliefs. Reading RD enabled me to stop having to try to believe. Or to put it another way (which would make my psychoanalyst give me his once-monthly smile) I didn't decide to became an atheist - I discovered that I already was an atheist.I had always held what has been called the "default attitude" towards Gods, miracles, magic, life before birth or after death etc.
So, clearly for me, and many people, I have never had the experience of religious belief. (I imagine that this is true for many of our friends who post here. And probably the Archbishop of Canterbury) In other words, I don't know what it feels like to be a true believer.
I once asked a Christian friend why so many noisy Fundamentalists didn't hesitate to tell outright lies. In his reply, he spoke of "an emotional attachment" to beliefs which could occasionally over-ride the necessity for bare, objective "truth".
I can't understand this.
I am trying to understand it.
And in spite of maps of brain states, it remains a hard problem IN THE CONTEXT OF ATTEMPTED DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN "US" AND "THEM"
Which is why I bristled at the use of the word "merely", because it seemed to me to represent a major obstacle to useful communication.
On a personal note, I am not burning with a desire to make theists stop believing, and "see the light". I am deeply concerned with people's quality of life (starting with my own!).
Flying planes into sky-scrapers, slitting throats, lying about condoms to poverty-stricken Africans, teaching children that homosexuality is a sin - to my mind these kinds of things interfere rather seriously with the quality of life.
There was no "merely" in the minds of Mohamed Atta, Marwan al-Shehhi, Hani Hanjour and their friends on 9/11.
I feel that if we are to be effective Zeitgeist-changers (and I suppose that's was this is all about) we need to put on our empathy spectacles when we look at believers, we need to install a maximum number of psycho-linguistic codecs, and seriously avoid being dismissive of other people's belief structures.
"The winning of hearts and minds."
Yep.
You see, I can't help feeling a sort of profound, er, affection (to avoid using the word "love") and sympathy for all my fellow-travellers on life's chaotic journey.
Even the Fleas and the dick-heads. (Though, for crissake, don't tell them, not here, on this site. I'd have to stop being supercilious, cantankerous and snide. And I don't feel ready to handle that kind of sea change just yet. OK? Thanks.)

EDIT : Since compliments for my RD-inspired musical "creations" have been pouring in by the three, here is a link to get them all :


Morgan's Music


Enjoy while it's still free! ( Closure date : the beginning of the Rapture.)

449. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #133243 by Richard Morgan on February 26, 2008 at 1:04 am

Paula :

I'm right out of stomach for fleas just now.

Scottish cuisine never ceases to amaze me.
Have you tried deep-fried locusts? Apparently they're full of proteins. Beat the heck out of manna, but apparently God didn't know that back in O.T. times.

450. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #133049 by Richard Morgan on February 25, 2008 at 2:43 pm

Bryan English : when Quetzy-baby said "your picture is starting to look remarkably devilish." - he was politely trying to tell you that it was an improvement.
Continue ainsi. - as we write on end-of-term bulletins/reports.