Lifting the Veil of “Islamophobia” : A Conversation with Ayaan Hirsi Ali

May 9, 2014

Ayaan Hirsi Ali was born in Mogadishu in 1969. The daughter of a political opponent of the Somali dictatorship, she lived in exile, moving from Saudi Arabia to Ethiopia and then to Kenya. Like 98 percent of Somali girls, Ayaan was subjected to female genital mutilation. She embraced Islam while she was growing up, but eventually began to question aspects of the faith. One day, while listening to a sermon about the many ways in which women must be obedient to their husbands, she couldn’t resist asking, “Must our husbands obey us too?”

 

In 1992, Ayaan was married off by her father to a distant cousin living in Canada. In order to escape this forced marriage, she fled to the Netherlands where she was granted asylum and then citizenship. In her first years in Holland she worked in factories and as a maid—but she quickly learned Dutch and was then able to study at the University of Leiden. She soon began working as a translator for Somali immigrants, where she witnessed firsthand the clash between liberal Western values and those of Islamic culture.



After earning her M.A. in political science, Ayaan began working as a researcher for the Wiardi Beckman Foundation in Amsterdam. She eventually served as an elected member of the Dutch parliament from 2003 to 2006. While in parliament, she focused on furthering the integration of non-Western immigrants into Dutch society and on defending the rights of Muslim women. She campaigned to raise awareness about violence against women, including honor killings and female genital mutilation—practices that had followed Muslim immigrants to Holland. In her three years in government, she found her voice as an advocate for an “enlightened Islam.”



In 2004, Ayaan gained international attention following the murder of Theo van Gogh, who had directed her short film, Submission, depicting the oppression of women under Islam. The assassin, a radical Muslim, left a death threat for Ayaan pinned to Van Gogh’s chest.



In 2006, Ayaan was forced to resign from parliament when the Dutch minister for immigration revoked her citizenship, arguing that she had misled the authorities at the time of her asylum application. However, the Dutch courts later reversed this decision, leading to the fall of the government. Disillusioned with the Netherlands, Ayaan then moved to the United States.



Ayaan is a fellow with the Future of Diplomacy Project at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at Harvard Kennedy School. She is also a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, currently researching the relationship between the West and Islam. Her willingness to speak out for the rights of women, along with her abandonment of the Muslim faith, continue to make her a target for violence by Islamic extremists. She lives with round-the-clock security.



In 2005, Ayaan was named one of TIME magazine’s “100 Most Influential People,” one of the Glamour Heroes, and Reader’s Digest’s European of the Year. She is the author of The Caged VirginInfidel, and Nomad. She is now working on Short-cut to Enlightenment, a dialogue between Mohammed, the founder of Islam, and three of her favorite Western thinkers: John Stuart Mill, Karl Popper, and Friedrich Hayek. 

A few weeks ago, Ayaan and I had a long conversation about her critics and about the increasingly pernicious meme of “Islamophobia”—which our inimitable friend Christopher Hitchens once dubbed “a word created by fascists, and used by cowards, to manipulate morons.”

 

Read the conversation here.

Written By: Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Sam Harris
continue to source article at samharris.org

380 comments on “Lifting the Veil of “Islamophobia” : A Conversation with Ayaan Hirsi Ali

  • 1
    inquisador says:

    In reply to #346 by phil rimmer:

    In reply to #344 by inquisador:

    Suppose a group of former soldiers, with weapons and
    intelligence training, are bored with their post-service jobs for
    security companies and print shops, and tired of the pub going which
    keeps them in touch with each other and with what bestowed a sense
    of pride and…

    Another thought: If this lawyer with his, let’s say, implied threats, were to act on these threats then would it be a plausible thing for him to do?

    He himself is not an action man figure; nor is he likely to lead such men into action. Isn’t it more likely that, in arguing his case, he may have overstepped the mark while getting a bit carried away by his own rhetoric?

    Either way, Gavin Boby, who wrote the foreword, is not the author of the report itself. That report should be judged on it’s own merits. Also, please check the preface on page eleven.



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  • In reply to #349 by inquisador:

    The aim is to force Councils and Police Authorities to pay.

    So, these are the people who should be reading this report. Do they think the mystery man author is worth listening to? It all hinges on there being some nationwide – or even worldwide- conspiracy to HIDE THE TRUTH. Since all these matters have been widely reported that is not the case.



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  • In reply to #350 by inquisador:

    Gavin Boby, who wrote the foreword, is not the author of the report itself. That report should be judged on it’s own merits.

    Tell us about the merits of the mystery man supposed author of the report and who funded him to produce it.



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  • 4
    inquisador says:

    In reply to #351 by aldous:

    In reply to #349 by inquisador:

    The aim is to force Councils and Police Authorities to pay.

    So, these are the people who should be reading this report. Do they think the mystery man author is worth listening to? It all hinges on there being some nationwide – or even worldwide- conspiracy to HIDE THE TRUTH. Since all these matters have been widely reported that is not the case.

    I think the author is worth a fair hearing, given the seriousness of this and the amount of harm inflicted on so many young girls.

    From the parts that I have read so far it looks as though there has been a widespread failure of parents, teachers, social workers and police to accept and believe what was going on under their noses until it was too late to put right. I think the perps have been cunning, manipulative and exploitative to a degree unimagined by the naive PC/MC compliant professionals and others involved.

    Here’s a bit from page 271:
    >

    . Evidence shows that the tendency of Muslim men to
    commit this crime is so far in excess of the tendency within the native
    British population,2
    that it will be impossible to remedy this without
    some profound changes to law enforcement, criminal justice and
    legislation. There are more than 50 gangs currently being investigated
    in England.3 That is, the number of gangs currently being investigated
    is almost twice as many as the total number of gangs convicted in the
    last 16 years combined!4

    The numbers are refs to footnotes.

    I do not know the identity of the mystery man who may be named Peter McLoughlin, nor who his sponsor may be. He may just be being cautious about using his real name.



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  • In reply to #353 by inquisador:

    I do not know the identity of the mystery man who may be named Peter McLoughlin

    And yet you are prepared to read 333 pages — are you serious — by somebody of no known qualifications and intentions, cobbling together publically available material to highlight the role of sundry Pakistanis in exploiting underage girls in local authority care.



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  • 6
    inquisador says:

    In reply to #354 by aldous:

    In reply to #353 by inquisador:

    I do not know the identity of the mystery man who may be named Peter McLoughlin

    nd yet you are prepared to read 333 pages — are you serious — by somebody of no known qualifications and intentions, cobbling together publically available material to highlight the role of sundry Pakistanis in exploiting underage girls in local authority care.

    Have you found any lies or inaccuracies in the report? Please tell.

    Are there any better alternative sources for this information? Please tell.

    There has been a worldwide outbreak of concern at the role of sundry Nigerians in exploiting 200 underage girls in local authority care; but why should we care about a few thousand underage British girls being exploited and enslaved? Right?

    Of course we should read it.



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  • In reply to #355 by inquisador:

    Are there any better alternative sources for this information?

    The court cases and convictions are reported in the media. The mystery man report you refer to can only be a compilation of publically known information. Unless you are contending he hacked police and public authority computers or otherwise got inside knowledge. Enjoy your reading of all 333 pages and tell us if you are echoing Enoch Powell’s River of Blood Speech.



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  • 8
    inquisador says:

    In reply to #356 by aldous:

    The court cases and convictions are reported in the media. The mystery man report you refer to can only be a compilation of publically known information. Unless you are contending he hacked police and public authority computers or otherwise got inside knowledge. Enjoy your reading of all 333 pages and tell us if you are echoing Enoch Powell’s River of Blood Speech.

    So you are saying that rather than reading this concise report I should spend weeks or months trawling through records of local and national newspapers, official reports, radio, TV news and documentary footage looking for relevant information? Could you please explain the logic of this?

    Your aversion to writers who use a pseudonym is noted. So just to help you I have found a handy link to other writers that should also be avoided.

    River of Blood Speech? Is that a joke?



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  • 9
    Katy Cordeth says:

    In reply to #357 by inquisador:

    In reply to #356 by aldous:

    So you are saying that rather than reading this concise report I should spend weeks or months trawling through records of local and national newspapers, official reports, radio, TV news and documentary footage looking for relevant information? Could you please explain the logic of this?

    If I may attempt to explain the logic… If you put all your eggs in the one basket, so to speak, by getting every bit of information about a very serious issue—sex trafficking and its alleged links to certain Muslim groups—from one source, which has chosen to aggregate several incidents you yourself can’t be bothered to investigate into a single article, it behooves you to find out a little about the source itself.

    Of the two names we’ve heard from, one cannot be identified and possibly doesn’t even exist, the other is a lawyer whose specialty is employing British statute to prevent Muslim gathering places from being constructed (what a lovely way to earn a living) with links to the English Defence League and other far right groups and websites.

    This isn’t Channel 4’s The FactCheck Blog, FactCheck.org or any other resource whose bona fides have been established and can be relied on to give an impartial, analysis we’re talking about; it’s very obvious that it and its authors have their own agenda.

    I’m with Phil and Aldous (and, I suspect, yourself) here: I don’t intend to wade through all 333 pages of this thing. You might regard it as gospel, but then people who are being told what they want to hear are often less exacting in their standards of scrutiny than they might otherwise be; less willing to pull back the curtain and gaze upon Oz’s true visage.

    Your aversion to writers who use a pseudonym is noted. So just to help you I have found a handy link to other writers that should also be avoided.

    It’s telling that most of the authors on your list write or wrote fiction. Georges Prosper Remi no doubt had his reasons in adopting the nom de plume Hergé for his Tintin books; it doesn’t matter when creating adventure stories what the name appearing on the cover is. If Remi had chosen to publish an academic article, on the other hand, his choosing to hide behind a pen name would have been less acceptable. Academics, scientists etc need to be held to account so their work can be properly assessed, any discrepancies questioned, their prejudices, alliances and so on made known.

    A report on the marvelous health benefits that can be accrued from drinking a gallon of Coca-Cola per day whose authors have chosen to remain anonymous should set any intelligent person’s antennae aquivering, even if simpletons lap it up. A report detailing how white British girls are at risk from a particular ethnic minority should lay all its cards on the table; it should be as transparent as possible given the potential for societal unrest. History has taught us what happens when unfounded rumors are allowed to spread. The Blood Libel might ring a bell. Your friends have chosen to hide in the shadows though.



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  • 10
    Katy Cordeth says:

    In reply to #355 by inquisador:

    In reply to #354 by aldous:

    …There has been a worldwide outbreak of concern at the role of sundry Nigerians in exploiting 200 underage girls in local authority care; but why should we care about a few thousand underage British girls being exploited and enslaved? Right?

    Are you referring to the girls kidnapped by Boko Haram, or is there another story I’ve missed?

    If it was being implied that all Nigerians worldwide posed a danger to underage non-Nigerian girls, that it was part of these people’s culture to travel to foreign countries and set up prostitution networks, that Nigerian literature mandated this sort of behavior, that Nigerians as a whole tacitly approve of the actions of Boko Haram, which can be inferred every time a single individual Nigerian fails to lament the plight of the kidnapped schoolgirls and condemn their abductors—“Where is Chuka Umunna so he can comment on this?!”—then your analogy might have legs.

    I actually think it’s pretty despicable for those organizations you seem to be so fond of to employ the tragedy of child sexual exploitation in order to further their own racist agenda. Using abused children as a political tool is fine, it seems.

    I wonder how many of them actually give a stuff if the mass deportation of every non-indigene which they seem to favor results in expatriated children being abused back in their homeland.

    Christ, Inquisador, but you’ve thrown in your lot with a wretched bunch.



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  • 11
    Marktony says:

    It all hinges on there being some nationwide – or even worldwide- conspiracy to HIDE THE TRUTH.

    Why? If the police put a low priority on such investigations, that does not imply a nationwide or worldwide conspiracy. It does imply that there is little pressure (political or media) being applied to persuade the authorities to take these issues more seriously.

    After the Savile case, there has been a lot of pressure on the police to pursue other investigations into possible sex crimes committed by VIPs and celebrities, resulting in more convictions. Does that mean there was previously a nationwide conspiracy – no, just a reluctance to investigate and a tendency not to believe the victims.

    Domestic violence used to be a big problem which the police did not take seriously. Now every force has domestic violence units. Was there previously a nationwide conspiracy?

    In 2011, the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP) carried out an assessment of ‘localised grooming’ in an attempt to identify the scale and patterns of offending. The summary report suggests the assessment was hampered by lack of input from the various authorities:

    unfortunately, CEOP received a limited response from agencies, especially children’s services and LsCBs. in total, only 13 LsCBs responded to the request for information . The highest response was from police forces but a significant number of forces reported a nil return.

    Where they did get a response, it seems the data regarding ethnicity was poor:

    In relation to ethnicity, the data was often recorded to a particularly poor standard at the point of capture. ‘Ethnicity’ was often conflated with ‘nationality’ and neither factor captured according to a conventional or standardised classification scheme. Within the available dataset there was a significant difference between the groups. For groups one and two combined, the ethnicity of 38% of the offenders was unknown, 30% were white, 28% asian , 3% Black and 0.16% Chinese. When only group one was analysed, the offenders were found to be 38% white, 32% unknown, 26% asian, 3% Black, and 0.2% Chinese.

    So, from the limited data, there did seem to be an over-representation of Asians. Of course, Asian ethnicity does not automatically imply Muslim. Is there a conspiracy against collecting this data? No, it’s just not seen as important enough to make it a requirement.

    A more recent report by the House of Commons Home Affairs Committee, Child sexual exploitation and the response to localised grooming also criticised the available data:

    both CEOP and the Office of the Children’s Commissioner have found serious inconsistencies with recording of ethnicities and gender of both victims and perpetrators across UK forces. Given the number of child sexual exploitation cases which have so far failed to make it to court, for the reasons discussed, this highly unsatisfactory situation means that it is extremely difficult to form an evidence based opinion on the true nature of what is still a largely hidden crime.

    And had this to say:

    There is no simple link between race and child sexual exploitation. It is a vile crime which is perpetrated by a small number of individuals, and abhorred by the vast majority, from every ethnic group. However, evidence presented to us suggests that there is a model of localised grooming of Pakistani-heritage men targeting young White girls. This must be acknowledged by official agencies, who we were concerned to hear in some areas of particular community tension, had reportedly been slow to draw attention to the issue for fear of affecting community cohesion. The condemnation from those communities of this vile crime should demonstrate that there is no excuse for tip-toeing around this issue. It is important that police, social workers and others be able to raise their concerns freely, without fear of being labelled racist.

    Whether or not there is an over-representation of Muslims in convicted child sex grooming gangs, the police do seem to be taking the issue more seriously as a result of previous high profile cases as was apparent from the reporting of the recent Peterborough convictions. And BTW all the defendants in this case were Roma but the article does not mention religion.

    In reply to #351 by aldous:

    In reply to #349 by inquisador:

    The aim is to force Councils and Police Authorities to pay.

    So, these are the people who should be reading this report. Do they think the mystery man author is worth listening to? It all hinges on there being some nationwide – or even worldwide- conspiracy to HIDE T…



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  • In reply to #357 by inquisador:

    So just to help you I have found a handy link to other writers that should also be avoided….River of Blood Speech? Is that a joke?

    We don’t know the biography of your mystery man. Whereas, we do know about authors who used noms de plume. The issue is not just that we don’t know who the author or authors is/are of the compilation of media reports you refer to. It’s about motives, intention, competence and source of funding.

    One mystery is solved, though. Your theory about the conspiracy to conceal child abuse is based simply on your lack of interest in the facts and preference for believing in a Huge Conspiracy.



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  • 13
    inquisador says:

    In reply to #358/9 by Katy Cordeth:

    In reply to #357 by inquisador:

    Well Hi Katy,

    Of course I’m referring to Boko Haram.

    If it was being implied that all Nigerians worldwide…

    I don’t get your point in this para. Are you saying that I am somehow trying to paint all Muslims as, what exactly? Don’t, please, sink to the level of absurd canards like this. I’ve dealt with this enough before.

    I actually think it’s pretty despicable for those organizations you seem to be so fond of to use the tragedy of child sexual exploitation in order to further their own racist agenda. Using abused children as a political tool is fine, it seems

    So it seems was ignoring their plight and allowing it to go on for decades without really trying to stop it.
    Thank you for this demonstration of how the smears of ‘racist’ [as well as ‘islamophobia’] are used to shame and silence anyone who calls attention to the harms done by the followers of Mohammed at this point in our history.

    This is why this report needed to be written. Many of the abuses catalogued in that report, and the ones that went ignored or unrecorded, need not have happened. Instead it seems, victims were not taken seriously enough, perpetrators went unrecognised as the crimials they were, information was not shared between areas and agencies. All to avoid committing the politically incorrect sin of upsetting cohesion in the multicultural community. Or maybe not. Maybe all that is untrue. let’s find out.

    You say that you want proper academic studies. As I said before, if anyone has better information, please give us a link. i would really love to see it. As I also said, read the preface on page 11; this does not pretend to be complete or definitive.

    It’s good that more cases are now being prosecuted, but still the cover-up of religion’s role in current cases goes on, for fear of offending or alienating the ‘vast majority of moderate Muslims.’ How bad does it have to get before we can talk about the truth openly?
    >

    Of the two names we’ve heard from, one cannot be identified and possibly doesn’t even exist, the other is a lawyer whose specialty is employing British statute to prevent Muslim gathering places from being constructed (what a lovely way to earn a living)

    Yes it is. A good honest way. Helping people to retain some control of their own neighbourhoods, as the system prescribes.
    >

    It’s telling that most of the authors on your list write or wrote fiction.

    It’s telling that writers and artists who are deemed to have insulted Mohammed are routinely sentenced to death. Could that explain the writer’s anonymity?



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  • 14
    inquisador says:

    In reply to #361 by aldous:

    In reply to #357 by inquisador:

    We don’t know the biography of your mystery man. Whereas, we do know about authors who used noms de plume. The issue is not just that we don’t know who the author or authors is/are of the compilation of media reports you refer to. It’s about motives, intention, competence and source of funding.

    Well I don’t know who you are; or your motives, intentions, competence, sources of funding or even your favourite colour; that doesn’t stop me from reading your comments and answering them… Or should it?
    >

    One mystery is solved, though. Your theory about the conspiracy to conceal child abuse is based simply on your lack of interest in the facts and preference for believing in a Huge Conspiracy.

    I tend to agree with Marktony at #360; I don’t believe in conspiracies across such large numbers of people, many not connected to one another. It looks more like a widespread lack of urgency and awareness of a specific problem.



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  • 15
    Katy Cordeth says:

    In reply to #362 by inquisador:

    In reply to #358/9 by Katy Cordeth:

    Of course I’m referring to Boko Haram.

    Oh, okay. It just sounded odd to me the way you described the Chibok abductions:

    “There has been a worldwide outbreak of concern at the role of sundry Nigerians in exploiting 200 underage girls in local authority care…”

    You make it sound like there were a number of perhaps unrelated incidents instead of just one. I don’t think Boko Haram would describe themselves as ‘sundry’, and ‘exploitation’ seems a funny word to use to describe the crime of kidnap. That’s what confused me.

    If it was being implied that all Nigerians worldwide…

    I don’t get your point in this para. Are you saying that I am somehow trying to paint all Muslims as, what exactly? Don’t, please, sink to the level of absurd canards like this. I’ve dealt with this enough before.

    Do you mean you’ve dealt with this enough before in regard to me? If that is what you’re saying, you and I must have a very different notion of what the expression ‘deal with’ means. I think ‘addressed’ would be more appropriate here, and I’m being generous with that. 🙂

    Everything I listed in the paragraph in question is something that you or those similar to you and whose comments in such instances you’ve clicked ‘like’ on—the Nodhimmis, Godsbusters etc of this site—have insinuated or said directly about Muslims: they have no respect for ‘kaffir’, which must be taken to include underage non-Muslim girls; it’s part of Islamic culture when in foreign lands to exploit the indigenes for their [the Muslims] own maleficent ends; Islamic texts mandate morally reprehensible behavior; any Muslim who doesn’t explicitly and without being prompted condemn acts of violence by their fellow members of that faith can be assumed to approve of them; “Where is Baroness Warsi so she can comment on this?”

    You habitually impute the actions of a few onto the group as a whole. You cite some bit of Koranic text and insist that because to be a Muslim—at least according to your own narrow definition—means believing every word of that book is, er, gospel, these people have no autonomy, no real will of their own; their religious affiliation supersedes their own innate human morality.

    I actually think it’s pretty despicable for those organizations you seem to be so fond of to use the tragedy of child sexual exploitation in order to further their own racist agenda. Using abused children as a political tool is fine, it seems

    So it seems was ignoring their plight and allowing it to go on for decades without really trying to stop it. Thank you for this demonstration of how the smears of ‘racist’ [as well as ‘islamophobia’] are used to shame and silence anyone who calls attention to the harms done by the followers of Mohammed at this point in our history.

    This is why this report needed to be written. Many of the abuses catalogued in that report, and the ones that went ignored or unrecorded, need not have happened. Instead it seems, victims were not taken seriously enough, perpetrators went unrecognised as the criminals they were, information was not shared between areas and agencies. All to avoid committing the politically incorrect sin of upsetting cohesion in the multicultural community. Or maybe not. Maybe all that is untrue. let’s find out.

    Let’s not and just say we did. I haven’t read the report, partly because its provenance is unknown; although the fact it’s championed by unscrupulous, extremely partisan entities such as the Gatestone Institute and GatesofVienna.com would be reason enough for me to give it a wide berth. You say at the end of your post:

    It’s telling that writers and artists who are deemed to have insulted Mohammed are routinely sentenced to death. Could that explain the writer’s anonymity?

    Maybe that is the reason the author has chosen to remain… well, not exactly anonymous: he does have a name, it just appears to be an invented one. Perhaps, as someone who has read the thing in its entirety, you could tell me if the elusive Mr. McLoughlin insults the Prophet at any point in his treatise. It’d be an odd thing to do in such a serious document, giving fuel perhaps to my suspicion that “Easy Meat” Multiculturalism, Islam and Child Sex Slavery may not be the impartial work such a serious issue might demand. If he doesn’t traduce Mohammed, what makes you think his life would be put in jeopardy?

    Criticizing child exploitation for financial gain surely isn’t enough to incur the wrath of the British Islamic community. They have children too about whose safety they worry. I know you would never paint all UK Muslims with the same brush and insist none of them could possibly give a fig about sexual abuse of non-Muslim children. That would make them inhuman.

    Under the circumstances, then, ‘Peter McLoughlin’ needn’t worry too much about his safety. Why not, given the seriousness of the issue under discussion, step out from the shadows and promote his manuscript?

    You say that you want proper academic studies. As I said before, if anyone has better information, please give us a link. i would really love to see it. As I also said, read the preface on page 11; this does not pretend to be complete or definitive.

    You seem to be issuing the challenge “Show us a better report on this…” as though the absence of other comprehensive studies somehow proves the veracity of this one. Just because no one else has published a dissertation on how the Royal Family are all nine-foot-tall lizards in people suits, that doesn’t make what David Icke says true.

    Maybe, just maybe, there are no other reports about this story because it’s an invention. Not the sexual exploitation of vulnerable children for financial gain—that has existed since time immemorial—but the sinister knowledge that in this instance foreigners are responsible. It’s one thing for kids to be sold for sex when natives are doing the selling—and the purchasing—another matter entirely when The Outsider does the same, bringing his and his customers’ foreign DNA into the equation. At least we know indigenous British peddlers of underage flesh are doing it simply for profit; unlike their alien counterparts who, adding insult to injury, are no doubt funneling their ill-gotten gains to Al-Qaeda.

    If British Muslim gangs are getting in on the child prostitution racket, it’s because they’re scumbags. Their religion is irrelevant. The law is supposed to be blind to everything but the nature of the crime.

    You said earlier in your comment:

    Many of the abuses catalogued in that report, and the ones that went ignored or unrecorded, need not have happened. Instead it seems, victims were not taken seriously enough, perpetrators went unrecognised as the criminals they were, information was not shared between areas and agencies. All to avoid committing the politically incorrect sin of upsetting cohesion in the multicultural community.

    It’s a sad fact that victims of sexual exploitation are frequently ignored or not taken seriously. Look at the examples of Jimmy Savile and Cyril Smith, who between them must have assaulted approaching a thousand kids. The authorities have a great deal to answer for when it comes to how these predators’ crimes were covered up for so long. Was it political correctness which allowed them to breathe their last in the comfort of their homes or a private hospital bed rather than a dank prison cell, never having been brought to account for their actions? Okay, these men were famous and had connections to influential people, but…

    …It’s only in the past thirty years or so that the act of marital rape has lost its status as oxymoron in the eyes of western law enforcement bodies. This Ukips benefactor, howmever, is apparently unswayed by the forces of political correctness you deem so injurious.

    Sex crimes are icky, gendarmaries tends to be lazy or corrupt or both, and predators are adept at choosing victims they know won’t be listened to if they report their abuse. Since when, by the way, were British police known for their sensitivity and kid-glove approach when it comes to dealing with ethnic minorities?

    It’s good that more cases are now being prosecuted, but still the cover-up of religion’s role in current cases goes on, for fear of offending or alienating the ‘vast majority of moderate Muslims.’ How bad does it have to get before we can talk about the truth openly?

    Who’s stopping you from talking openly about the truth? You spoke about canards, well this is exactly the one Sam Harris and Ayaan Hirsi Ali are trying to flog. You can speak the truth until your hair bleeds as far as I’m concerned, and if anyone tries to silence you on the grounds that we shouldn’t do anything to offend or alienate the ‘vast majority of moderate Muslims’ (kinda wonderin’ why that was contained within scare quotes) you can direct them to me.

    Yes it is. A good honest way. Helping people to retain some control of their own neighbourhoods, as the system prescribes.

    Their own neighborhoods? You’re showing your true colors, Inquisador. I would have thought that freedom to worship as one wishes is an important, some might say inalienable, right in a supposedly enlightened society. Governments, local authorities, and NIMBYs intent on keeping their vicinage ethnically pure should not be allowed to interfere with this right. If I don’t care for Jews, should my views be taken into consideration when planning permission for a synagogue near where I live is sought? Perhaps your Mr. Boby, the self-styled Mosque Buster, could go beyond his brief in this instance and take on my case; these EDL types usually don’t have much love for God’s chosen people either. The synagogue is to cater to a mostly gay congregation, if that sweetens the pot.

    It’s a funny thing, but history shows us that whenever a religion is proscribed, its followers don’t just disappear into the ether; they go underground. They gather in secret to worship, use covert means of identifying themselves as members of their faith. Heck, people have chosen to be put to death rather than renounce their religious affiliation. Razing every single mosque to the ground would not put an end to the hated Islam in your country.

    I tend to favor the persuasion-is-better-than-force approach. Aesop’s fable of The North Wind and the Sun explains this nicely. If you do want to help create a world in which Islam, Christianity, Scientology et al have no power, legislating against the erecting of these faiths’ places of worship probably isn’t the way to go about it. If you just don’t want those scary Muzzies in your back yard… well, you’re probably on to a winner.



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  • 16
    aldous says:

    In reply to #363 by inquisador:

    Well I don’t know who you are; or your motives, intentions, competence, sources of funding or even your favourite colour; that doesn’t stop me from reading your comments and answering them… Or should it?

    And vice versa. When your comments get anywhere near 333 pages, I’ll get a little more choosy about deciding whether it’s worth answering, especially a 334 page answer. The document of questionable funding, authorship and rationale is introduced with a version of the Enoch Powell River of Blood speech. The river of blood was to be caused by enraged white Britons — ‘how unfortunate’ as it was hypocritically implied –rising up against the aliens in their midst. When this supposed must-read document contains a rehash of events reported in the media — which have apparently escaped the attention of the ignorant and uniformed– seen from the perspective of a racist nitwit –as Powell was for all his academic intelligence –the only attention it deserves is for the light it throws on the mindset of somebody who finds it engrossing reading — allegedly.



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  • 17
    inquisador says:

    Just a quickie:

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali has returned to the subject of her conversation with Sam in a recent (May 31st) interview on, be warned: Fox News.

    Here’s a link for anyone who may not have seen it but would like to.

    She wonders, in this, why America and the west generally, were able to unite against apartheid, but not sharia. I thought she was excellent.



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  • 18
    Imperius says:

    People like aldous and Kathy Cordeth sound like what I call “ivory tower multiculturalists” — people who know what’s best for the masses because their principles sound so good on paper, despite failing every reality test on the ground.

    The problem is that a society’s values aren’t set in stone; they reflect the religions, cultures and ideologies of the people who live there. If you start changing the cultural composition of your nation in the name of some bogus “diversity” ideal, your values will change and eventually your rights and freedoms will be threatened. So if you value your cultural continuity, it’s wise to be selective about who you allow in your borders. Importing people en masse from radically different cultures is not a prescription for creating a more functional society. If this isn’t clear, go visit some of the “no-go” zones in places like France where Muslims have immigrated en masse, or talk to a few taxi drivers. The reality on the ground is that a foreign culture is taking root that is fundamentally incompatible with Western civilization, and all the ideological apologetics in the world isn’t going to change that.

    The bottom line is that there are limits to how much any society can tolerate “diversity” and not become suicidal, and the West has clearly gone beyond those limits in recent decades. Personally, I think our civilization may come apart at the seams, because so many people (like aldous and Kathy Cordeth) seem ignorant of facts that were obvious to our ancestors who built this civilization, and have bought into this bankrupt and suicidal narrative of “diversity”, “Islamophobia”, etc.

    As always, history will be the final judge, not the good intentions of our progressive elites.



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  • 19
    aldous says:

    In reply to #367 by Imperius:

    The bottom line is that there are limits to how much any society can tolerate “diversity” and not become suicidal, and the West has clearly gone beyond those limits in recent decades.

    The ‘West’ is enjoying peace and prosperity far beyond anything experienced in the history of the world. In the days of Empire, the ‘natives’ were confined to their homelands while the motherland sucked their wealth from them. How can we keep the people of the former empires from reaching the formerly inaccessible ‘mother country’ ? Do we turn Britain into North Korea? Besides, hundreds of millions of European citizens have the right to settle in the UK if they choose. Tell us how you would ‘keep them out’.



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  • 20
    mombird says:

    In reply to #9 by Nunbeliever:

    I think terrorists by-in-large are uneducated brutes. Why they get away with it is beyond me. None-the-less, I as an American woman won’t go to an Arab (Muslim) doctor because Muslims have weird ideas about women that seem to be inherent in the religion. Am I being prejudiced, yes I know that, but in the heart of all women IS fear of oppression, mutilation, feeling sub-human in the hands of Arab men. I can’t help but see behind their eyes a deep seated distain for women. I know not all Muslims are like that but frankly I can’t shake the mistrust I have them. Sad isn’t it?! Sometimes I hate the men of this species for what they have done to women in the name of religion! I feel bad for saying this but there it is in all it’s honesty.



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  • 21
    Imperius says:

    In reply to #368 by aldous:

    Besides, hundreds of millions of European citizens have the right to settle in the UK if they choose. Tell us how you would ‘keep them out’.

    That’s easy, just change the laws so they no longer have that right.

    As for peace and prosperity unprecedented in history blah blah blah, what does that have to do with multiculturalism or Islamophobia? I can point to many affluent, peaceful (non-Muslim) societies that are rather monocultural, so I don’t understand your point. Western Europeans have zero obligation to allow people from every land to come to our shores, out of post-colonial guilt or for any other reason.



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  • In reply to #369 by mombird:

    .. I can’t help but see behind their eyes a deep seated distain for women. I know not all Muslims are like that but frankly I can’t shake the mistrust I have them. Sad isn’t it?! Sometimes I hate the men of this species for what they have done to women in the name of religion! I feel bad for saying this but there it is in all it’s honesty.

    Even though I try very hard to take people as I find them, this is usually only successful when I know the individual personally. When confronted with a public figure the distrust is there at the back of my mind and I find myself having to fight against it.

    We have an excellent social commentator/journalist by the name of Waleed Ali. I really enjoy reading his comments and invariably find myself aligned on every issue. He has a lovely, articulate wife who is often seen on television as the public face of the Muslim woman. Back to Waleed…. I find my impressions a challenge because I’m on his side and yet have an innate distrust.

    I sympathise with you.



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  • 23
    mombird says:

    In reply to #371 by Nitya:

    In reply to #369 by mombird:

    .. I can’t help but see behind their eyes a deep seated distain for women. I know not all Muslims are like that but frankly I can’t shake the mistrust I have them. Sad isn’t it?! Sometimes I hate the men of this species for what they have done to women in the name of re…
    When you hear about how these men mistreat women (gang rapes, mutilation, forced marriage, veils and berkas) how can you NOT be an Islamophobe???



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  • In reply to #370 by Imperius:

    That’s easy, just change the laws so they no longer have that right

    The UK can’t ‘just change the law’ on the rights of European citizens to move anywhere in the Union. It would be incompatible with UK membership of the Union. The promised referendum, if it’s ever held, could result in what’s left of the UK (after the result of the Scottish vote) voting to leave. Countries outside the EU, Norway and Switzerland, have a much higher percentage of immigrants than the UK. Non-membership of the EU would not necessarily result in fewer foreign-born residents.

    How would you propose getting rid of more than half the population of London – the 55% that is not white British? I’m just interested in how you think you’d solve the practical difficulties of turning the clock back in the face of the economic realities. Why would anybody want to cause the collapse of the National Heath Service and other sectors which depend on a large influx of foreign employees?

    Even if you concentrate on illegals, finding them, rounding up and deporting them wouldn’t be cheap. “It has since been suggested that to deport all of the irregular migrants from the UK would take 20 years and cost up to £12 billion” (Wikipedia).Considering that you have to find countries willing to take these deportees, makes it seem quite unrealistic.

    You haven’t considered the cost of going against the worldwide trend of mass migration.



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  • In reply to #369 by mombird:

    as an American woman won’t go to an Arab (Muslim) doctor because Muslims have weird ideas about women that seem to be inherent in the religion.

    If you have a choice, what’s the problem? If you happen to find yourself in a hospital in Britain, though, you would have trouble keeping away from doctors from India or Pakistan, It wouldn’t be very wise to insist on white British doctors only. As well as the medical problems that could cause, there are also laws against showing racial prejudice.

    How do you recognize a Muslim doctor anyway? Lots of doctors are not religious and lots of Arab-looking men might be Christian or Sikh.



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  • In reply to #372 by mombird:

    . When you hear about how these men mistreat women (gang rapes, mutilation, forced marriage, veils and berkas) how can you NOT be an Islamophobe???

    I still think we need to take people as we find them as the IDEAL. We don’t have to look very far afield to see appalling treatment of others in the name of Christianity. We don’t apply the same pre-judgement on every Christian we come across in our day-to-day activities because these comprise the bulk of our interactions. We’ve learnt to view these encounters on their individual merit….that is, taking people as we find them.



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  • 27
    mombird says:

    In reply to #374 by aldous:

    In reply to #369 by mombird:

    as an American woman won’t go to an Arab (Muslim) doctor because Muslims have weird ideas about women that seem to be inherent in the religion.

    If you have a choice, what’s the problem? If you happen to find yourself in a hospital in Britain, though, you would have tro…

    Yes, yes, yes I know I’m being prejudiced, I know. I’ve had some bad experiences behind it. I do have a choice and I go to women doctors. There- problem solved. And religious doctors do have weird ideas including Christian ones. How do I know- more bad experiences.



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  • 28
    mombird says:

    In reply to #375 by Nitya:

    In reply to #372 by mombird:

    . When you hear about how these men mistreat women (gang rapes, mutilation, forced marriage, veils and berkas) how can you NOT be an Islamophobe???

    I still think we need to take people as we find them as the IDEAL. We don’t have to look very far afield to see appalling…

    True, in real life, of course, I don’t walk around with a chip on my shoulder, but when I think of how women have been treated all thru. history well… it’s just a release to vent my spleen on blogs. Women have suffered so much at the hands of men. It bothers me a lot.



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  • 29
    Pinball1970 says:

    Immigration is not the issue.

    The UK was built on immigration and invaders and we have done ok out of it.

    It is obvious Islam and the Koran does not sit well with free speech and western democracy/ way of life.

    We drink alcohol, treat animals humanely for slaughter treat women as equals and can have opinion on religion without fear of reprisals.

    It is as simple as that.

    I am surprised no one has mentioned operation Trojan horse yet

    If they have.
    Apologies



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  • 30
    inquisador says:

    Well, operation Trojan Horse warrants a separate discussion, as does ISIS and the ongoing attempt to stage a new caliphate in Iraq and Syria.

    I notice that none of my recent suggestions for news topics have been accepted. Likewise none of these recent news topics concerning jihadism around the world have appeared at all. My feeling is that this website would like to steer a little wider of such touchy subjects as militant Islamic commands in the Koran and Hadith and how motivating they are to some Muslims who then become jihad terrorists.

    There are other places to discuss such things [though few, and not so good as this], and I do wonder if some of our freespeech indulgence may cause aggravation to Sir Richard; perhaps a backlash or reprisal of some kind. If so then I would s.t.f.u. in future. I realize that many comments at this site have been candid to the point of offensiveness to a lot of people.

    Free speech is precious of course, but so is the Prof. We only have one Dawkins but we can find other outlets for controversial debate.

    Perhaps the mods could give us a clue?



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  • Reckless Monkey – We do need to worry about radical Islam and Islam in general while it continues to be unsafe to issue any criticism it’s way. Until you can do the Muslim equivalent of the Piss Christ without fear of being brutally murdered then this is a real issue and saying otherwise seems to me at best unrealistic.

    I think there are a lot of people in Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya and Nigeria, who would agree with you!
    In many places you can be kidnapped or murdered, just for having an unfundamentalist viewpoint! – (admittedly in some cases, due to lawlessness brought about by incompetent, interfering, foreign governments providing weapons and instability, while seeking “regime changes”!)



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  • 32
    inquisador says:

    As one who is often frustrated by finger-pointing taunts of ‘Islamophobe, racist, bigot, hater of all Muslims’, as a result of openly identifying the effects of raw unrefined Islamic fundamentalism on people, and how some Muslims are fanaticised to a dangerous extent, like hydrophobic dogs (to paraphrase Churchill) , despite my best efforts to clarify and qualify my statements, I wonder how the hell I can ever put across such information without this inevitable kneejerk response from some people.
    I can’t, obviously. But I can just ignore it.

    That was by way of introduction to this recent clip in which Frank Gaffney and Brigitte Gabriel, on a panel investigating the terrorist attacks in Benghazi, replied to questioning from a Muslim American lady, who responds very well to them near the end. Well worth watching, listening and commenting back here. If anyone is still interested. As I am.



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  • inquisador Jun 22, 2014 at 11:47 am – As one who is often frustrated by finger-pointing taunts of ‘Islamophobe, racist, bigot, hater of all Muslims’, as a result of openly identifying the effects of raw unrefined Islamic fundamentalism on people, and how some Muslims are fanaticised to a dangerous extent,

    A phobia is an irrational fear! There is nothing irrational about being concerned about the threats or actions of jihdists or theocracies!

    It is of course well known (an illustrated in the archives of this site), for religinuts to claim their unevidenced irrational views are “reasonable”, as their project their irrationality on to others.
    They likewise frequently describe their fallacious circular thinking as “logical”.

    A false assertion of “Islamophobia” provides an easy lazy-brain non-answer, for “moderate” non-thinkers maintaining a head-in-the-sand posture.



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  • I see the French are not prepared to pander to claims for religious privilege to trump civil law!

    There are calls beyond France too for public wearing of the niqab to be banned
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28106900
    The European Court of Human Rights has upheld a ban by France on wearing the Muslim full-face veil – the niqab.

    A case was brought by a 24-year-old French woman, who argued that the ban on wearing the veil in public violated her freedom of religion and expression.

    French law says nobody can wear in a public space clothing intended to conceal the face. The penalty for doing so can be a 150-euro fine (£120; $205).

    The 2010 law came in under former conservative President Nicolas Sarkozy.

    A breach of the ban can also mean a wearer having to undergo citizenship instruction.

    France has about five million Muslims – the largest Muslim minority in Western Europe – but it is thought only about 2,000 women wear full veils.

    The court ruled that the ban “was not expressly based on the religious connotation of the clothing in question but solely on the fact that it concealed the face”. The Strasbourg judges’ decision is final – there is no appeal against it.



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  • inquisador Jun 13, 2014 at 10:50 am

    Well, operation Trojan Horse warrants a separate discussion, as does ISIS and the ongoing attempt to stage a new caliphate in Iraq and Syria.

    The details of that inquiry are now coming out!

    ‘Disturbing’ findings from Trojan horse inquiry http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-28419901

    There is “disturbing” evidence that people with a “shared ideology” were trying to gain control of governing bodies in Birmingham, says Education Secretary Nicky Morgan.

    She was responding to the Trojan horse report from former counter-terror chief Peter Clarke into allegations of a hardline Muslim take-over of schools.

    Mr Clarke found evidence of an “aggressive Islamist agenda”.

    Ms Morgan highlighted “intolerant” messages between school staff.

    Teachers could face misconduct inquiries, she told the House of Commons, after Mr Clarke’s report found a social media group called the “Park View Brotherhood” used by male senior staff at Park View School.
    ‘Anti-western’

    Mr Clarke’s report said this included “grossly intolerant” messages.

    He said the social media messages included “explicit homophobia; highly offensive comments about British service personnel; a stated ambition to increase segregation in the school; disparagement of strands of Islam; scepticism about the truth of reports of the murder of Lee Rigby and the Boston bombings; and a constant undercurrent of anti-western, anti-American and anti-Israeli sentiment”.

    Then there is the harassment of teaching staff.

    A Birmingham MP has said teachers forced out of schools involved in the Trojan Horse allegations deserve to be compensated.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-28393506

    On Friday, Birmingham City Council revealed the key findings of its inquiry, led by Sir Ian Kershaw.

    In it, Sir Ian criticised the often “improper” conduct of governors at some schools.

    MP Khalid Mahmood said at least 12 senior school staff had been bullied or forced out of their posts.



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