For Christians, Does Being Pro-Life Lead More Souls to Hell?

Dec 31, 2015

In late November, the Colorado Planned Parenthood shooting where three people were killed and nine wounded sadly reminded Americans again that women are not safe in this nation when trying to make choices about their bodies. It compelled me to take a candid spiritual look at the popular Christian stance on abortion.

As a transhumanist US Presidential candidate, I am pro-choice. More interestingly, though, as a former Christian and Catholic school student, I was also pro-choice.

Here’s why: From a strictly biblical point of view, being born on Earth is a test. All our actions will eventually be judged by an omnipotent God who will determine whether we go to heaven or hell. Our deeds, sinful or not, determine where we spend eternity. The Bible even says many people will not get into heaven because it’s quite difficult to be a sin-free Christian–meaning the majority of human souls may spend an endless amount of days in hell. Like it or not, about 2.2 billion people on Earth believe in these ideas. Another 1.6 billion Muslims believe in mostly the same thing, too.

Where the Abrahamic rabbit hole gets weird–at least for me–is the fact that many Christians (and Muslims) believe that an aborted fetus goes to heaven.

The metaphysical impact of that religious belief is just bizarre. It means that the most sure thing to do to get a soul into heaven is to abort a fetus before it leaves its mother’s womb and has the chance to sin. The crazy thing is this makes abortion providers some of the most considerate, humanitarian people we know–at least from an Abrahamic religious perspective. Abortion providers and pro-choice advocates have long been filling heaven with pure souls–instead of committing them to a lifetime on Earth, challenged with trials of sex, drugs, and transhumanism.

Of course, the logic described above certainly sours the pro-life argument that abortion is evil. However, the premise of that logic is anything but certain or sound. It requires basing views on leaps of faith and ancient religious mores–like the existence of God, hell, and heaven. The reality–despite the billions who believe in formal religion–is that no one really knows anything definitely. While I like to say I’m atheist just to be defiant in the face of an overly religious civilization, like any sensible person, I honestly don’t know what exists beyond me and the material universe I live in.

The fact is–since we’re all empathetic mammals–that no one likes to have abortions, and no one likes to provide them. In an ideal world, no one would ever get pregnant unless they were certain they were ready for parenthood and knew they were going to have a perfect child. But stuff happens and things don’t go as planned, and people must do things to try to accomplish the greater good for themselves and society. In this way, we should be grateful that women’s clinics–like Planned Parenthood–are there to help out so that the best choice about one’s life can be made.

And if we insist on being a Christian, then we might want to look at the bigger spiritual picture and stop trying to shoot people that are helping a soul’s entrance into heaven.

Article written by Zoltan Istvan, published in the Huffington Post.

29 comments on “For Christians, Does Being Pro-Life Lead More Souls to Hell?

  • And if we insist on being a Christian, then we might want to look at the bigger spiritual picture and stop trying to shoot people that are helping a soul’s entrance into heaven.

    It would be a victory, of a sort, just to get Christians to agree on what is a Christian.



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  • @OP And if we insist on being a Christian, then we might want to look at the bigger spiritual picture and stop trying to shoot people that are helping a soul’s entrance into heaven.

    Ah! All those mystical undetectable zygote and blastocyst “souls” in heaven!! (allegedly!) – Most sent there naturally by god – the world’s leading abortionist!!!
    The (alleged) place must be knee deep in them!

    Why is it known as “the god-delusion” – again??



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  • And then again what happens to many children around the world when they are born? Starved, in poverty, diseased, sold into slavery, abused, female mutilation, molested by the church, and it goes on and on in the millions. What hypocrisy. They might not like the idea of abortion but hey also don’t necessarily like the idea of the child when it becomes a problem



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  • And if we insist on being a Christian, then we might want to look at the bigger spiritual picture and stop trying to shoot people that are helping a soul’s entrance into heaven.

    They could even stop shooting people TO send them to heaven/hell!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-35202424
    Rwanda’s High Court has sentenced a pastor to life in prison for his role in the 1994 genocide.

    Jean Uwinkindi organised and participated in attacks on the minority Tutsi ethnic group, the court ruled.

    Some 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed by militias from the majority Hutu ethnic group.

    The 64-year-old Hutu pastor was the first genocide suspect to be sent back to Rwanda for trial by the Tanzanian-based UN tribunal.

    Uwinkindi – the former head of a Pentecostal church on the outskirts of the capital, Kigali – had opposed his transfer.

    “The court finds that there were killings of the Tutsi at Rwankeri and Kanzenze hills and that the attacks were led by Uwinkindi,” said Judge Kanyegeri Timothee, Reuters news agency reports.

    The prosecution alleged that in investigations after the genocide, some 2,000 bodies were found near the church in Kanzenze, just outside Kigali, where Uwinkindi was pastor.



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  • I was a Christian for over 20 years. I can confirm the bizarre nature of this belief. As a Protestant Christian, I was raised around people who believed (and for a while I myself believed) the following:

    1)There was an “age of accountability” which varied from person to person. This was the age at which the person could tell right from wrong. At that point, they could go to hell if they died and didn’t believe. Anyone who died before that point, however, would go to heaven. This included fetuses, infants, very small children, developmentally disabled persons, etc.
    2)The most important thing in the world was to make sure that you and those you loved (and everyone, really) would go to heaven when they died. This life was fleeting, so the most important thing was to make sure you had your ticket to heaven…your “fire insurance,” if you will. (Of course there were the exhortations to live right and make the most of your life too, but escaping hell was the grand prize.)

    As an atheist now, I see the complete illogic of believing that babies go to heaven while also being against abortion. If Christianity was true, and my former beliefs about babies going to heaven was true, then all the fetuses and babies who were aborted had a 100% rate of escaping hell. Abortion should have been looked at as the greatest evangelistic tool we had! What monster would take a chance on having a baby if there was even a small chance that that child would grow up, reject God, and go to eternal torment? Even if a Christian believed abortion was murder and that murder was wrong, wouldn’t any crime be worth committing if it meant you saved a loved one from hell?

    As I said, I am now an atheist and don’t hold with such beliefs. But I wonder how many Christians have thought through how those two beliefs affect each other, and the illogic it creates.



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  • “But I wonder how many Christians have thought… ”
    Well, thinking makes you NOT a Christian, as you have found out. Reading the Bible is another good way to become an Atheist.



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  • Ah, but Alan, you’re only able to point out that fact about terminations of pregnancy, because you’ve taken the trouble to learn about it.

    Whereas “blind faith” enables people to believe anything they choose, regardless of whether or not there’s any evidence for it; and for some it would seem, that is very heaven itself!

    I just happen to think it’s hell on Earth; witness, what it can lead to.

    I must add however, that despite everything, I absolutely adore Gospel music; one of the most moving scenes in The Wire, is the one with the Mayor and his wife in the church; he, of course, is clapping just slightly off rhythm.



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  • So Christians, or at least some Christians in the USA, are against abortion in all circumstances. Well bollolcks to them and their religion. God is the biggest abortionist of them all. Incidentally, I am also mostly anti-abortion, but at times, it is the right thing.

    You will perhaps excuse me, I’m off to the War on Hogmanay party !



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  • Isn’t the problem really that in the USA you insist on letting lunatics have access to firearms?
    Other western countries also have vociferous dissent on these matters but access to firearms is more restricted and we usually don’t kill each other. Arming the disturbed with the means to mass murder seems to lead to a ‘final solution’ mentality.

    rz



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  • …thinking makes you NOT a Christian…

    Reading the Bible is another good way to become an Atheist.

    Unfortunately, this is true only for those who are capable of critical thinking.



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  • slightly off rhythm

    Jean Baptiste Lully’s tempo staff injury / death, strange.

    { ‘Religion channels’ oft speak of right to life – marches, and what they perceive as victories (e.g. new laws). As far as I can tell, counter-points are never part of the equation. Leaving out reality certainly is misleading, is it not?! }



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  • This article reminded me, a distant echo, of all those discussions in Religious Instruction classes in my Catholic school. The ones that didn’t take place, or were quickly extinguished before they could get going. Where the lesson I learned was that Religion placed itself above logic and reason, and that there was No Point Arguing.
    Like many of my classmates, I instead fell silent and waited for it all to Go Away. Which, by virtue of leaving school, and home, it did.

    In other words, nice article, cute argument. Maybe it’ll help some Poor Soul escape from the nonsense, if it keeps on being presented in the right places. Not here, as it isn’t going to be read by anyone who needs it. Well, maybe here it inspires some to pass it on, say it where it can help. Good luck with that.



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  • My, Richard, this is a GREAT idea! Two year olds are also not rational enough to commit personal sin. So, let’s make mandatory laws saying that two year olds should have a drill placed into their skull and brains to suck the tissue out and then dismember each of their limbs with a large curette. You would say, “Amanda, no, that’ DIFFERENT! A two year old is a HUMAN BEING! Murder of a REAL HUMAN BEING shouldn’t be legal!”

    Dude, sorry, your support for abortion is due to your absurd and irrational belief that one minute prior to birth, the entity in a woman’s womb is formless tissue and not a human being yet, that miraculously transforms into a real baby in the vaginal canal. You think a fetus is not a person, therefore, destroying/killing it is okay. Not because of whether souls, which you do not believe exist, go to heaven or hell.

    If there is no God, why do you object to the “termination” of any homo sapien entity, born or unborn? The universe is a random accident, and their death means nothing because there are no morals. Dismembering a living child or adult post-birth is no greater a sin than ripping up a piece of scrap paper. There is no ultimate justice, and we’re just rocks, right?

    Furthermore, men don’t get pregnant, and I support using this argument as a double-edged sword. You have NO RIGHT to support abortion rights until science makes it possible for you to develop XX chromosomes and become a woman. If men have no right to oppose abortion rights, then they have no right to support them, or the right to choose them, or the right for male physicians/nurses/medical assistants to perform them.

    My goodness, our world is in a sad state when someone like yourself who claims to be the king of rationality is irrational.



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  • Amanda Adams
    Jan 3, 2016 at 12:05 pm

    My, Richard, this is a GREAT idea! Two year olds are also not rational enough to commit personal sin.

    Personal sin is a theist imagined feature based on dogmas.

    So, let’s make mandatory laws saying that two year olds should have a drill placed into their skull and brains to suck the tissue out and then dismember each of their limbs with a large curette.

    This is your attempt at rationality?

    You would say, “Amanda, no, that’ DIFFERENT! A two year old is a HUMAN BEING! Murder of a REAL HUMAN BEING shouldn’t be legal!”

    Murder is real, which is why human societies have laws to protect individuals. Unfortunately history shows that the more religious societies (like some in The Mid-East at present), are less rational and more dogma dependent in doing so, so have seen no moral problem in torturing abusing and killing millions.

    Dude, sorry, your support for abortion is due to your absurd and irrational belief that one minute prior to birth, the entity in a woman’s womb is formless tissue and not a human being yet, that miraculously transforms into a real baby in the vaginal canal.

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

    You seem unaware of the strawman fallacy which concocts imaginary positions without substance, others are alleged to take on issues!

    You think a fetus is not a person, therefore, destroying/killing it is okay.

    There are many reasons why a foetus may reasonably be aborted, or indeed why one may naturally abort due to deformities or the malnutrition of the mother. In fact the majority of fertilised eggs do naturally abort!

    Not because of whether souls, which you do not believe exist, go to heaven or hell.

    The imaginary “Souls” which are supposedly injected at conception, is a religious concept without any evidenced support. It is frankly ludicrous to suggest that a zygote, a blastocyst or an early stage embryo, without brain deveopment is a sentient being!

    If there is no God, why do you object to the “termination” of any homo sapien entity, born or unborn?

    That would be because (regardless of theist claims), gods are not required in order to exercise sympathy, empathy, or ethics, in considering the merits of individual situations.

    The universe is a random accident, and their death means nothing because there are no morals. Dismembering a living child or adult post-birth is no greater a sin than ripping up a piece of scrap paper.

    Oh dear! That theist claim to have a monopoly on morality, – which by the way is not the same as the blind following of bronze-age dogmas from pre-scientific eras.

    There is no ultimate justice, and we’re just rocks, right?

    My goodness, our world is in a sad state when someone like yourself who claims to be the king of rationality is irrational.

    Oh dear! Someone else who thinks rational thinking is a badge to be stuck onto their preconceived notions rather than the actuality of a process of induction or deduction from evidence.

    Civilised countries have laws and medical guidance on when and why abortions are appropriate, taking into account the interests of the mother, the potential child, and the family.

    Unfortunately many of those shouting about “pro-life”, have no idea what “life” is, and are actually only shouting about pro mindless dogma, which does not care about anyone’s health, suffering, or welfare!



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  • Amanda Adams
    Jan 3, 2016 at 12:05 pm

    Wow. That was pretty much a masterclass in deciding which opinions you think someone else holds despite them never having said any such things and then railing against their imaginary position. If you’re going to argue against what you’ve decided someone else thinks rather than what they’ve actually said, or not even bothering to just take the extraordinary step of perhaps asking what they think first, then can’t you do that just as well in private with an imaginary opponent whose imaginary opinions you can decide entirely for yourself?



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  • Amanda

    It’s very sad to me that you feel so morally superior that you ought to pass judgement on others. You apparently consider yourself to be in possession of some very high moral standards and it’s your duty in this life to instruct others on the subject. However, when I read your comment I found that you have attributed opinions to others that I don’t believe are true. You have used shock tactics by presenting imagery of dismemberment of “babies” when we all know that this procedure is a very rare case medically.

    If you are a woman then I will say from one woman to another; if you don’t wish to have an abortion due to a moral objection then that is fine. I support you in your personal decision. When you sputter and rail against the rest of us based on your personal moral perspectives then don’t be surprised when we push back against you.

    Understand that women of all times and all places have always done what they can to manage their own fertility for the good of themselves, their other children and for the family and for the clan. This is a huge calculation that has serious consequences. Your small minded little sputtering about your shallow personal morality has no bearing on the wide perspective of our evolutionary past. Who do you think you are to interfere in other women’s family planning? Mind your own fertility and keep your nose out of other women’s uteruses. You have seriously overstepped. You want to come off as impressively high minded but instead I think you must be cold and heartless.

    Got compassion? I don’t think so.



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  • Amanda Adams
    Jan 3, 2016 at 12:05 pm

    My, Richard, this is a GREAT idea! Two year olds are also not rational enough to commit personal sin. So, let’s make mandatory laws saying that two year olds should have a drill placed into their skull and brains to suck the tissue out and then dismember each of their limbs with a large curette.

    Most doctors and biologists know the difference between a zygote and a two-year-old, but then they would probably also investigate with sufficient diligence to recognise the author whose name appears on an article, rather than attributing it to someone else.

    There are those who diligently research information and make informed judgements, and then there are those who just make stuff up and trot out dogmatic knee-jerk answers, without any thought as what the relevant questions are!



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  • Reading between the lines I see a severe childhood indoctrination based on scare tactics and threats of hellfire and damnation with a soupçon of self righteous FUX news thrown in for good measure. Sad. Just…sad.



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  • All our actions will eventually be judged by an omnipotent God who will determine whether we go to heaven or hell.

    Wrong. When you were a practicing Christian you didn’t absorb the key tenet of Christianity. The sacrifice of Jesus provides salvation by covering the sins of the faithful thus evading the judgement of sins. I’m not a religious person. If you are going to argue against those people that are religious, then the premises of your argument should be correct.



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  • John Ferguson
    Jan 3, 2016 at 5:03 pm

    Hi John,

    The sacrifice of Jesus provides salvation by covering the sins of the faithful thus evading the judgement of sins.

    Of course, whole story of a magic garden, a magicked into existence Adam, rib-woman, talking snakes, and original sins of eating fruit, requiring some future sacrifice, is very fanciful fairy-tale, which some would describe as “metaphorical”!

    I’m not a religious person. If you are going to argue against those people that are religious, then the premises of your argument should be correct.

    I think you and the OP are both right, because there are almost as many “interpretations” of Christianity as there are Christians, with each denomination or cult having its own dogmas.

    http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm
    The source does refer to 33000+ total “Christian” denominations, but it defines the word “denomination” as an organized Christian group within a specific country:



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  • For those interested (probably not Amanda) here is a great analysis of foetal versus neonatal consciousness-

    http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/v65/n3/full/pr200950a.html

    A pending question is the status of the preterm fetus born before 26 wk (<700 g) who has closed eyes and seems constantly asleep. The immaturity of its brain networks is such that it may not even reach a level of minimal consciousness.

    From elsewhere I learn that 50% of all premature infants fail to develop normal brain function. 15% have severe brain abnormalities.

    The issue really does seem to be about souls.

    The rest of us can go home.



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  • Very true, and not wishing to go too far off-topic, the american attitude towards ordinary people having the means to kill at a moment’s notice is imo the biggest problem here.

    Firstly, having a gun means you can form an opinion, then go state it and finish the argument before it starts. if the first act was to go and confront doctors and patients verbally, then your opinion will be put to the test agasint that of someone else.

    Secondly, the US right to bear arms, which is one of a long list of safeguards against british royalists marching to re-take the country (quite far down, reason 1 is “keep it”), cheapens life.

    The popular reason for keeping guns is for self-protection, but evidence doesn’t support its efficacy. For me (granted I’m a cat and we have strict rules on making a hell of a lot of noise before resorting to actual violence, and even then rarely does the violence escalate to serious ingury or death) the problem with this attitude is it is utterly binary. Any threat is a potential life-or-death situation so nowadays americans happily shoot each other with virtual impunity on the grounds that every american citizen is allowed to be a death threat to every other citizen. The police of course are allowed to kill virtually anyone as part of their job description is shooting people with a gun.

    Other than those unfortunate to be directly affected by all this, most ‘murkuns have no concept of life or death. life is one big video game, as supported by their religion which states dying is just another term for going on to level 2.

    So for me it’s not enough to call them lunatics. these are not people with mental disabilities, these are people with guns and no sense of responsibility. gun supporters say you should buy a gun and get trained in how to use it (sensible enough) but I suspect the training goes as far as basic safety and operational instructions, rather than the intense psychological training one would have to go through to be able to make a life/death decision while in a heightened emotional state such as fear or rage.

    The NRA will always remind us that guns are not the problem, it’s mental illness. However they do not support background checks to find out if someone is mentally ill, rather wait until they kill someone innocent then declare them mentally ill while praising the cops who helped them reach level 2

    The kind of person who shoots up a clinic for religious purposes, is just another example of a “good guy with a gun”. everyone with a gun thinks they’re good, and who could argue with them? no one that’s who, because they have a gun and the winner is the one left alive not the one with the best argument, but even if the mythical good-guy-with-a-gun that everyone aspires to be (white american, who uses his gun to protect innocent citizens, against a tearrrrrust, who’s brown or at least a bit dark haired), he’s still someone who did a very simple thing and ended someones life without need to ponder the ethics of his actions.

    If only those who needed family planning advice had such simple decisions and actions to work through



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  • everyone with a gun thinks they’re good.

    Great analysis throughout.

    The deputisation of ordinary folk to the role of police, judge, jury and executioner, is demented, having worked for thousands of years to build a fair rule of law and system of justice for its administration. But in a country that still embraces capital punishment and locks up 20 times more people per capita than the rest of the world, a taste for retribution and blood seems set to remain at biblical levels…



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  • Strangely I find myself in support of the new open carry policy in texas. It’s much like the old traditions of plague masks and leper bells in europe when we were still in the dark ages



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  • plague masks and leper bells

    Lol.

    Discussing this at work this morning we wondered what if the rest of the world decided to “keep away” from this rather scary place. That tourism could be affected, might add a little heft to legislators efforts.



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