Separate Bathrooms by Religion? Oklahoma Opens New Front in Transgender Debate

May 25, 2016

By Christine Hauser

Oklahoma lawmakers have introduced a bill that would allow students to request on religious grounds that their public schools provide a bathroom or other facility that bars transgender people.

The bill appears to be one of the first state-level legislative actions to challenge the Obama administration’s directives, issued last week, that said students must be allowed to use the facilities that match the gender they identify as, even if that is different from their anatomical sex.

The Senate bill introduced on Thursday in Oklahoma defined “sex” as the “physical condition of being male or female, as identified at birth” by an individual’s anatomy.

It says any student can request a “religious accommodation” from a school for restrooms, athletic changing facilities or showers that are exclusively used by people with the anatomical sex at birth that is similar to their own. This means that a male student could request that the school provide facilities only for use by other students who were male when they were born.

It said a student can do so based on “sincerely held religious beliefs.”

The proposed legislation says single-occupancy facilities would not be considered an allowable accommodation.


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24 comments on “Separate Bathrooms by Religion? Oklahoma Opens New Front in Transgender Debate

  • Could I please have an atheist only bathroom? It makes me nervous to share with those delusional types. You never know what kind of tricky business they’ll try to pull just when one’s pants are down around the ankles. 🙁



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  • I’d like to request a dunny (I’ve never seen a bath in a public toilet) which is reserved exclusively for men with big willies. I’m not going to tell you if I would use it, but there are two possibilities; either I’m embarrassed in the presence of very well endowed men, or I hate embarrassing the poorly endowed. I’m not going to tell you which, but suffice it to say that I feel bad about humiliating other people.



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  • I think the answer to this invisible “dilemma” is obvious: bathrooms by individual. Yes, it may seem (exceedingly, ridiculously, extraordinarily, impossibly) impractical but it really solves the debate and ties it up into a neat rainbow colored (if you like) bow. Because if separating by religion, according to Google there are 19 major ones (facilitating the need for 38 different bathrooms at a minimum (using the old sex ID method) at every place that has them, and more likely 540 if we’re to conveniently ignore the other angry gods and just stick with “large religious groups”). If however every person has their own bathroom – voila! – problem solved. Bathroom by individual. So for convenience sake we can cull these individuals by some commonality. Say, individual sex however one chooses to define that. Typically this will be based on genitalia. Atypically it won’t be (trans, etc), but outliers are uncommon and certainly not burdensome. So…kind of like what we’ve been doing for years now, or at least since the races have been able to use the same facilities to rid their waste. Yes, progress! End of story. Now let’s talk about real issues.

    Google:
    How many different religions are there in the world today?
    Number of adherents of world religions: According to David Barrett et al, editors of the “World Christian Encyclopedia: A comparative survey of churches and religions – AD 30 to 2200,” there are 19 major world religions which are subdivided into a total of 270 large religious groups, and many smaller ones.

    Source: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=number%20of%20religions%20in%20the%20world



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  • Hi,

    gonna be controversial here, but its done for the sake of finding the truth.

    I believe that lgbt people should have their human rights respected in law. However, I cannot go along with this man can become a woman ‘gender fluidity’ ideology, which is derived more from postmodern cultural theory than science.

    I don’t think a man can become a woman, altho if one chooses to do so, that person should be respected.

    This toilet gender issue is not really the main issue.

    It seems to me that xx or xy sex chromosones cannot be changed, whatever surgery is undertaken, or whatever one chooses to wear.

    I would like to ask a general question – atheism is the belief that there is no god.
    From that position, there is no necessary link toward either being pro or accepting this ‘gender fluidity’ ideology.
    or am i missing something?

    This storm in the teacup gender toilet issue is not the real problem.

    It seems to me there are two genders and that sex and gender are the same thing.



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  • anton #6
    May 25, 2016 at 5:16 pm

    From that position, there is no necessary link toward either being pro or accepting this ‘gender fluidity’ ideology.
    or am i missing something?

    Yes! You are missing the the fact that there are more than two genders and there are body forms which are inconsistent with the chromosomes.

    This storm in the teacup gender toilet issue is not the real problem.

    It is not a “storm in a teacup” for those who are intersex, who are hermaphrodite, or whose bodies are inconsistent with their chromosomes.

    It seems to me there are two genders and that sex and gender are the same thing.

    This is simply biologically wrong!
    The existence of intersex bodies is biology not ideology!

    We discussed this earlier here:-

    https://www.richarddawkins.net/2016/05/anti-trans-discrimination-is-sex-discrimination/



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  • anton #7
    May 25, 2016 at 5:24 pm

    Richard Dawkins and his support for Germaine Greer.

    Greer is wrong, but he defends her right to speak in a debate, rather than being censored by those who disagree with her.

    He is being attacked in this article, but Dawkins is correct.

    The author of the linked article [Amy Walker] seems to be so full of prejudice that in this very dishonest interpretation of Dawkins comments, she is struggling to understand English, let alone understand biology!



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  • @Anton. #6

    Your statement is scientifically incorrect.

    It seems to me that xx or xy sex chromosones cannot be changed, whatever surgery is undertaken, or whatever one chooses to wear.

    Biologically, your gender identity resides in the brain, not what’s between your legs. If your statement was true, there would be no homosexuality today, or throughout recorded history, which is clearly not the case. If gender identity resides in the brain, this explains the observations we make through out history.



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  • Hey Anton,
    Some folks are born with two X chromosomes and one Y. XXY. It is a result of an event in meiosis known as nondisjunction (same phenomenon causes down syndrome). It is clinically known as klinefelter’s syndrome. It occurs in about 1 in 1000 males (so about 1 in 2000 people). Odds are you know someone who has this congenital condition.
    The thing that links atheists to the defense of the rights of anyone is (IMO) that we are not told that hate is fine if it is masquerading as religion. That plus the understanding of science equals people who tolerate others. BTW, this is not true of all atheists. All stripes of people have their subgroup that absolutely sucks .



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  • The thing that links atheists to the defense of the rights of anyone is (IMO) that we are not told that hate is fine if it is masquerading as religion.

    LIKE. This is going straight to the pool room.



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  • Aye,
    The thing that links atheists to the defense of the rights of anyone is (IMO) that we are not told that hate is fine if it is masquerading as religion.
    Good call.
    I don’t care who I share the stones with when I’m busting for a pee, many a rocker-girl has backed up and urinated into the gent’s urinal in rock-clubs, due to the long queue for the ladies. No big deal is it?
    (How do I highlight in orange?)



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  • 17
    Cairsley says:

    To M27Holts #15

    (How do I highlight in orange?)

    Just type a ‘>’ (without the single quotation-marks) to the left of the text you wish to highlight.

    Then press ‘Enter’ twice (two lines down) to start typing in ordinary font.



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  • From that position, there is no necessary link toward either being pro or accepting this ‘gender fluidity’ ideology.
    or am i missing something?

    I do not get this. I simply do not understand why you can’t see that your being “pro” or “con” (better word usage “anti”)….

    When does the compassionate portion of your personality come to the realization that these folks are not a tiny fringe percentage of our human population, but rather, a relatively large number of people. PEOPLE. These folks have struggled and suffered sitting right next to you for decade, centuries, millennia. And, with a simple gesture of tolerance, you can make their existence that much easier and better.

    Who gives a damn what anyone “believes” about any of this? These people need a hand in getting something that matters immensely to them. You’d rather spend time on the debate? Tease out meaning of semantics? Worry about pronunciation?

    Me, I want to be part of a better world for everyone. FOR EVERYONE.



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  • Sorry, my thought trailed off in the opening of my last post. I wanted to add (but was remiss — and then the damn edit timed out….) anyway, it should go something like this:

    I do not get this. I simply do not understand why you can’t see that your being “pro” or “con” (better word usage “anti”)….
    and the thought finishes with …. doesn’t actually matter at the point of the issue.



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  • anton >It seems to me that xx or xy sex chromosones cannot be changed, whatever surgery is undertaken, or whatever one chooses to wear.
    I recall a discussion in the press some years ago regarding gender testing of athletes in major competitions. It isn’t that simple at all! Babies can, and quite often are, assigned a gender at birth that doesn’t match their chromosomes. Genitalia can be malformed due to some environmental effect in the womb leading to doctors making the “wrong” determination.
    In any case, why should anyone be concerned if someone, who to all outward appearances has the same gender appearance as the designation for the rest room comes in and uses a cubicle. I’d be more embarrassed (no more than that!) if someone who looked very feminine came into a male rest room while I was using it, than if I later found that what I’d believed to be a man actually was described as female on their birth certificate. I’m sure that most ladies would also find it embarrassing to have a masculine looking person join them, no matter if their birth certificate says female.



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  • Ok, so where I am looking at this wrong? One person, with a penis, prefers to use the ladies room because they feel awkward, or uncomfortable in the men’s room. So this person goes to the ladies room or locker room and makes several women anxious and awkward at once. Obviously either scenario is uncomfortable, but shouldn’t it simply be a numbers game? Should one person always be made to feel uncomfortable, or should potentially several people in a bathroom be made to feel that way at once? Which does a better job of alleviating the problem?



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  • holysmokes #23
    May 27, 2016 at 4:46 pm

    Ok, so where I am looking at this wrong? One person, with a penis, prefers to use the ladies room because they feel awkward, or uncomfortable in the men’s room. So this person goes to the ladies room or locker room and makes several women anxious and awkward at once.

    The issue for intersex individuals, or ambiguous genitalia, is that the difference between a penis and a clitoris is unclear, – which is why doctors misidentify a baby’s sex at birth.
    That is why the choice of appropriate facilities is best decided by the individuals concerned – especially if they have had surgery or hormone treatment, which appears to make their gender readily identifiable.
    A male or intersex individual with breasts wearing a dress is going to visibly appear female, regardless of having an enlarged clitoris, or a small penis through which they will urinate in a cubicle.



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