I’m a founder of the Satanic Temple. Don’t blame Satan for white supremacy.

Aug 24, 2017

By Lucien Greaves

Soon after the violent white supremacist protests in Charlottesville this month, religious leaders and pious politicians began the usual drudgery of fitting the events into their preferred narratives.

Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin (R) seized the opportunity to rail against secularism, declaring that the whole thing was but a symptom of a rampant evil that has been allowed to freely permeate public schools unmitigated by the moral corrective of compulsory Bible study. Some Christian leaders, such as Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr., said little about the actual events in Charlottesville, but praised President Trump’s “bold” and “truthful” statement at his news conference three days after the protest, which claimed “many sides” were to blame and that all sides harbored some “very fine people.” American Family Radio host Bryan Fischer blamed Democrats.

But the consensus among Christian leaders was that Satan was at fault. As Evangelist Franklin Graham put it: “Shame on the politicians who are trying to push blame on President Trump for what happened in Charlottesville. … Really, this boils down to evil in people’s hearts. Satan is behind it all.” Premier Christianity, a popular news and culture blog “from a Christian perspective,” condemned both white supremacy and Trump’s equivocating response to it as “Satanic.” Similarly, Morgan Guyton, director of the NOLA Wesley Foundation, the United Methodist campus ministry at Tulane and Loyola universities in New Orleans, saw in Charlottesville a “manifestation of Satan’s power.” Russell Moore, president of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, denounced white supremacy as “Satanism” and “devil-worship.”

Continue reading by clicking the name of the source below.

74 comments on “I’m a founder of the Satanic Temple. Don’t blame Satan for white supremacy.

  • I’ll take what this fellow looks like when side by side with a catholic cardinal in full regalia, any day. Magic upside down trashcan hat? smoking purse? scepter? frock worth 3500 dollars (while “looking out” for the poor”)?

    Anyway, what these fools all dress like is negligible when you look at what they spew.



    Report abuse

  • Sorry, John, but idiotic comments which demonstrate that you only looked at a picture and possibly didn’t even comprehend the headline don’t inspire confidence in the value of your commentary.



    Report abuse

  • @OP – To many casual observers, there seems to be a tendency to view condemnations of white supremacy as Satanism as a triumph of progressive thought among prominent U.S. Christians.
    The Satan of Modern Satanism is a metaphorical icon for Enlightenment values.
    Satanism adopts a mythological backdrop that we feel is more befitting to modern culture than the monarchical, feudalistic, theocratic superstitions of old.

    Any theist tribe non-member activities or opponents of their personal delusion, is attributed to Satan and, his followers!

    Of course, we need to ask which form of Satan they are currently shouting about?

    The theist claims of other people’s “Satanic activities”, seem to keep flicking between secularism, and other religions or denominations unrelated to their own! – Although Trump and the extreme right often lump them together – perhaps because they are too ignorant to have any idea about what other people think, or what other religious doctrines say!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses
    In the United Kingdom, The Satanic Verses received positive reviews, was a 1988 Booker Prize finalist (losing to Peter Carey’s Oscar and Lucinda) and won the 1988 Whitbread Award for novel of the year.[2] However, major controversy ensued as Muslims accused it of blasphemy and mocking their faith.



    Report abuse

  • The Grey Faction goes around gate-crashing therapy conferences and filming random people without consent, then puts the videos on the internet and laughs at trauma victims’ pain. What a bunch of creepy stalkers, eh?



    Report abuse

  • alf1200 #8
    Aug 25, 2017 at 1:30 pm

    Charlotte, you think you should support your “claims” by also posting some EVIDENCE?

    Ah! EVIDENCE!
    I have had a look and here is what Rational Wiki has to offer.

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse

    “Satanic ritual abuse” was part of the Satanic Panic scare over widespread alleged Satanism. It included claims that do not stand up to the test of reason much less any actual statistics to back them up, such as the claim that Satanists conduct over 1 million human sacrifices per year, often of children born into these supposed families.

    The panic was promoted heavily by Christian fundamentalists, particularly author Mike Warnke and his fraudulent “autobiography” The Satan Seller, Rebecca Brown and her equally fraudulent He Came To Set the Captives Free, Lauren Stratford and her gory (and fraudulent) book Satan’s Underground, radio talk show host Bob Larson, book writer Hal Lindsey, and comic writer Jack Chick.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #13
    Aug 25, 2017 at 4:45 pm

    @link – Ritual abuse exists all over the world. There have been reports, journal articles[1][2][3], web pages[4][5][6][7][8]

    It certainly does, but most reports of large scale child abuse relate to major religious establishments and various religious cults!

    and criminal convictions of crimes against children and adults

    Most of the verified convictions seem have been committed by people in positions of trust in religious organisations or in religion, related organisations – such as orphanages or schools!

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/03/does-religion-and-not-just-catholicism-produce-more-than-its-fair-share-of-child-abusers/



    Report abuse

  • Correct. Now, why on earth does Doug Mesner over here think it is ok to film people without consent at conferences where ritual abuse survivors gather for support and healing? “Unsympathetic organizations” such as the Satanic Temple are excluded from such events.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #16
    Aug 25, 2017 at 7:05 pm

    Correct.
    Now, why on earth does Doug Mesner over here think it is ok to film people without consent at conferences
    where ritual abuse survivors gather for support and healing?
    “Unsympathetic organizations” such as the Satanic Temple are excluded from such events.

    While I can understand genuine victims of abuse wanting anonymity, there does need to be some independent reporting and independent investigation of claims, made about “support and healing”!

    Many charlatan “faith-healers”, snake-oil salesmen, and anti-vaxxers etc. are more than ready to exploit the vulnerable, by establishing ideological so called “help groups”!

    There are also religious cults who, applying the No True Scotsman fallacy, brand opponents as “working for the Devil” and make ad-hom attacks attributing any negative activities to them.
    (With child abusing priests who are ready to preach psychological projection, so as to purely speculatively attribute their own “sins”, to people outside their faith, who because others are unconstrained by their doctrines, and therefore [allegedly]”immoral”!)

    One of the most laughable, is the claim that “atheists are followers of the Devil”!
    This comes from the dichotomous supernatural mind-set, which cannot grasp that some people don’t accept any form of the supernatural, gods, or demons!
    Those fundamentalists, besotted with their god-delusions, just don’t understand humanists accepting responsibility for their own conduct, and living free of blaming dictatorial god delusions for any of their own their anti-social behaviours.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #16
    Aug 25, 2017 at 7:05 pm

    Correct. Now, why on earth does Doug Mesner over here think it is ok to film people without consent at conferences where ritual abuse survivors gather for support and healing?

    There seems to be an absence or severe shortage, of claims of ritual Satanic abuse, which can be traced back to reputable sources.

    Where thorough investigations were carried out, various malpractices were found in the activities of those supposedly investigating!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkney_child_abuse_scandal

    The Orkney child abuse scandal began on 27 February 1991 when social workers and police removed some children from their homes on the island South Ronaldsay, in Orkney, Scotland, because of allegations of child abuse. The children denied that any abuse had occurred, and medical examinations did not reveal any evidence of abuse.

    The case came to court in April, and after a single day the presiding judge, Sheriff David Kelbie, dismissed the case as fatally flawed and the children were allowed to return home. The judge criticised the social workers involved, saying that their handling of the case had been “fundamentally flawed” and he found in summary that “these proceedings are so fatally flawed as to be incompetent” and that the children concerned had been separated and subjected to repeated cross-examinations almost as if the aim was to force confessions rather than to assist in therapy.
    Where two children made similar statements about abuse this appeared to be the result of “repeated coaching”.

    Liz McLean, the social worker who led the interviews with the children, had also been involved in the 1990 Rochdale “Satanic Abuse” case. She was later sharply criticised by Lord Clyde in the official inquiry into the South Ronaldsay case, and in another investigation into similar allegations in Ayrshire

    During the investigation the children received several lengthy interviews.
    McLean was later described by several of the children as a terrifying figure who was “fixated on finding satanic abuse”, and other children described how she urged them to draw circles and faces, presumably as evidence indicating abusive rites.[2] These techniques were strongly criticised by Sheriff Kelbie.

    One of the children later said of the interviews:

    In order to get out of a room, after an hour or so of saying,
    “No, this never happened”, you’d break down.[3]

    One of the children later said:

    I would never say that a child's testimony
    in the company of Liz McLean at the time [is reliable].
    She was a very manipulative woman,
    and she would write what she wanted to write.
    I would doubt any child supposedly making allegations
    in that situation."
    — Interview with "Karen", 2006




    Report abuse

  • Filming without consent at conferences for rape survivors and their allies is reprehensible. This helps no one, except to make TST feel special and important, for $$, likes and clicks.
    SHAME SHAME SHAME…



    Report abuse

  • So Charlotte what is the reason for their harassment? What on earth the advantage… to merely piss people off?

    Is there not a more credible reason for this as with so much of your world allegedly packed with organised evil?

    What new allegations will be made by the sadly florid of mind? That’s what they need to find out.

    Why is there no corroborated evidence for any accusations of ritual abuse? All the multiple “corroborations” are recyclings of the same few tired scraps seeded by, all too prosaic, “regular” abuse, plus a little dash of schizotypy.

    Child abuse is the problem. Focus on that and you may do something useful. Notice the actual perpetrators and their modus operandi.

    Alan nailed it for you. Now go and do something worthwhile.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #19
    Aug 26, 2017 at 9:59 am

    Filming without consent at conferences for rape survivors and their allies is reprehensible.

    I would agree with you, IF this is filming in order to publicly expose genuine victims of rape.

    If however the filming is only produced in evidence in cases of misrepresentations of witness statements, or exposing false claims, I would see it as legitimate investigation.

    A recording of the apparently abusive child interviews (as is carried out for police interviews in some Western Countries) in the cases I quoted @#18, would have been most enlightening.

    How many of these cases in the US have been passed to the police and resulted in prosecutions?

    However, we do need properly evidence based information rather than purely personal opinions from some ideology driven authors. – Some of whose writings have been exposed as false!

    On this RDFS site the regulars have no sympathy for rapists, and often criticise those religious bodies who blame and abuse victims, rather than dealing with the real issues and tackling the perpetrators.
    I realise that in some jurisdictions, the authorities cannot be relied on to deal honestly or fairly with abusive attacks! (The RCC and certain Islamic sects would come to mind!)

    https://www.richarddawkins.net/2017/07/letter-to-kpfa/#li-comment-224211

    Cases of sexual assault are believed to be underreported “because victims are customarily blamed”.[6] (For example, in 2009, a 23-year-old woman was sentenced to a year in prison and 100 lashes for adultery after being raped by five men.
    In 2007, a 19-year-old victim of rape by seven men receiving a sentence of six-months in jail and 200 lashes.




    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #19
    Aug 26, 2017 at 9:59 am

    Filming without consent at conferences for rape survivors and their allies is reprehensible.

    There are plenty of examples of “Satanic abuse”, but these are usually carried out by recognised religions and reported by reputable international organisations rather than some group of amateurs – and are a lot more serious than complaints about investigations into the reliability of (dubious?) claims!

    https://www.richarddawkins.net/2014/07/the-persecution-of-witches-21st-century-style/

    In recent years, there has been a spate of attacks against people accused of witchcraft in Africa, the Pacific and Latin America, and even among immigrant communities in the United States and Western Europe. Researchers with United Nations refugee and human rights agencies have estimated the murders of supposed witches as numbering in the thousands each year, while beatings and banishments could run into the millions.

    A report that year from the same agency and a Unicef study in 2010 both found a rise, especially in Africa, of violence and child abuse linked to witchcraft accusations.

    Another factor, particularly in Central Africa and its diaspora communities, is the advent of revivalist churches, in which self-styled pastor-prophets rail against witchery and demon possession.
    They often claim to specialize in the casting out of evil spirits, sometimes charging for the service.
    Many of those congregations have emerged from Western evangelizing efforts.

    One of Nigeria’s most popular Pentecostal preachers, Helen Ukpabio, wrote that “if a child under the age of 2 screams in the night, cries and is always feverish with deteriorating health, he or she is a servant of Satan.”
    As that implies, children in those communities are especially likely to be identified as possessed.
    The United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights reported that most of the 25,000 to 50,000 children who live on the streets of Kinshasa, the capital of the Democratic Republic of Congo, were abandoned by family members who accused them of witchcraft or demonic possession.

    In 2011, courts in Saudi Arabia sentenced a man and a woman, in separate cases, to beheading after convictions for sorcery.
    In 2013, Saudi courts sentenced two Asian housemaids to 1,000 lashes and 10 years in prison on charges of casting spells against their employers.

    The Roman Catholic Church also involves itself in “exorcisms”.

    Exorcism in the Catholic Church is the use of exorcism in the Roman Catholic faith for those who are believed to be the victims of demonic possession. – Wikipedia.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #23
    Aug 26, 2017 at 6:36 pm

    So do you have examples of prosecutions or evidence presented in court, – or just petitions organised by conspiracy theorists?

    You will note that elsewhere on this site we have discussions on the thousands of science duffers who illustrate their asserted fanciful ignorance, by signing petitions denying man-made climate change, or following delusional charlatan pseudoscientists in denying evolutionary biology!

    https://www.richarddawkins.net/2017/07/open-discussion/#li-comment-225066

    It is unsurprising that those with aspirations of holiness in religious organisations, attribute abuses within their flocks, to “the work of the Devil” and in some cases set about exorcisms!

    However, the links I posted at #9 and #10, suggest the Satanic Temple is not involved in this, but is merely dealing with fanciful made-up allegations from those who feel an urge to denigrate them!

    I gave you a clear example of false allegations at #18, so I am asking if you can quote ANY examples involving the Satanic Temple (not some other Satanists, or witch hunters, or stories in a book), where credible medical or police evidence of abuse has been produced.



    Report abuse

  • The Satanic Temple gate-crashed multiple therapy conferences in the last two years, filmed random people without consent, and currently hosts these videos on their website, where they mock and attempt to discredit victims. That petition contains many links to supporting evidence of the existence of ritual abuse. Why you can’t be bothered to read it is a testament to how biased you are against victims seeking recovery.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte. Your mind reading is faulty. I spent over half an hour speed reading as many documents as I could looking for new and corroborated evidence. I have no wish to make a mistake about such a serious matter. A few of us have been very interested in the specific cases you recall as we have had a number over here in the UK.

    Frustratingly I found none but much self referencing.

    Why did you not link to the videos on the ST website, so we can see actual evidence of their allegedly appalling behaviour? Not going straight to the evidence is perplexing. Look. you can fix this even now. There are no hearts of stone here, just rather demanding, logical minds.

    You have provided nothing substantive yet. This is very frustrating still.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #25
    Aug 27, 2017 at 10:36 am

    The Satanic Temple gate-crashed multiple therapy conferences in the last two years, filmed random people without consent, and currently hosts these videos on their website, where they mock and attempt to discredit victims.

    You told us that @#7 and #16.

    That petition contains many links to supporting evidence of the existence of ritual abuse.

    Phil has bothered to look over it and it seems evidence is lacking, but assertions are plentiful!

    Why you can’t be bothered to read it is a testament to how biased you are against victims seeking recovery.

    We know there are false allegations around, so I asked you to bother to pick out some examples of police or medical evidence if there is any! Is there any? You say there is evidence, so I presume you know where it is, and can quote it – along with the source. – But so far your references are very vague.

    @#24 – I gave you a clear example of false allegations at #18, so I am asking if you can quote ANY examples involving the Satanic Temple (not some other Satanists, or witch hunters, or stories in a book), where credible medical or police evidence of abuse has been produced.

    how biased you are against victims seeking recovery.

    A strange claim, when links and quotes have been provided, strongly criticising abusers and abusive regimes – and quoting soundly evidenced examples of numbers (thousands @#22) of victims from reputable sources!



    Report abuse

  • Ritualabuse.us contains many cases and supporting documented evidence. You would know that if you had bothered to read the petition, or click on any of the links therein. I question your ability to judge the evidence at hand.

    As for TST’s appalling behavior, here you go:
    https://youtu.be/3B22_ehS500
    https://youtu.be/EQghXPHaJpY
    This is in addition to the stalking and harassment described in the petition. It is customary to read things BEFORE you condemn them as “not convincing”, FYI.



    Report abuse

  • Well, Charlotte, thank you for at last publishing enough data to allow us begin to properly be able to research this issue.

    For folks wanting some kind of reasoned account of the issues, try this

    https://greyfaction.org/ellen-lacter/

    It is fascinating, not least for the very partial promotion of the case (upsetting patients at a therapists conference.)

    The supporting evidence from the first link on the SMART website was the old (20 year old Believe the Children listings which have every little support these days. Most convictions of ritual abuse were overturned or the convictions proved to be depressing and all too familiar common or garden abuse.

    Neil Brick is a disastrous advocate for SMART and offers no useable data, though his urging to check the facts out for yourself are spot on

    Here is one of the therapists

    https://www.thecosmicswitchboard.com/2017/03/24/sandra-fecht-dave-staffen-and-fran-toews-interview/

    and one of her subjects

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSdA9kJ8pUY

    and

    https://vimeo.com/149202646



    Report abuse

  • It’s funny to me that you think the Grey Faction’s blog about Ellen Lacter is “reasoned”, even though the California Board of Psychology disagrees with you. Why would anyone care about the Satanic Temple’s opinions on mental health licensure? #GraveMolester #GravePretendersAll



    Report abuse

  • Why do you not link to the California Board of Psychology to help?

    You dangle this stuff but don’t do the work of presenting a coherent case. Its kind of like you are mind blind to us here, those who pride themselves in being skeptics, ex-religious folk often “who won’t get fooled again”.

    I’m going to order the book. $9 Kindle edition. This is not going to be the evidence I need but having had two friends troubled in some similar ways I am interested to understand the minds of folk who believe this stuff.

    Don’t get me wrong, if ritual abuse were going to happen anywhere it would be the US. The number of folk parasitised by religion and the monstrous morality of the OT and Hell is truly terrifying. But this fact also offers the best explanation for people perceiving what is not, in fact, there.

    Besides the crime is Child Abuse first last and always.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #31
    Aug 27, 2017 at 8:07 pm

    As for “usable data”, here is a case where the victim obtained signed confessions by SRA perpetrators, her parents:

    It makes a start on one case.

    @your link – Anne’s parents confessed their atrocities—both in writing and verbally—to clergymen, and to detectives from the Utah Attorney General’s Office. Anne’s suppressed memories, which erupted when she was in her mid-30s, were fully substantiated by her mother and stepfather.

    You have now quoted a detective involved in an investigation, but don’t mention the outcome, or which church the “clergymen” belonged. Nor do you say if the statements were made before or after discussions with these clergymen. “Recovered memories” after coaching in stories, are dubious sources of information.

    After Anne learned the horrible and heartbreaking truth about her childhood, she embarked on an amazing inner journey of healing—and forgiveness.

    Particularly if the “memories” are only “recovered” after coaching (see 18) in their alleged content!

    @link –The book’s foreword was written by Lt. Detective Matt Jacobson, who was the lead investigator with the Utah Attorney General’s Office on Anne’s case in 1995. In April 1995, Anne was interviewed by KTVX Channel 4 News and The Deseret News in Salt Lake City for stories regarding a then newly released three-year study by the Utah AG’s Office about ritual abuse.

    But you don’t quote what the detective or the study actually wrote which was relevant.

    Anne has availed herself to the Master Potter and transformation by fire..

    Would that be the mega-church televangelist Potter?

    Your link does not not provide any indication that these claims are connected to the Satanic Temple organisation, rather than some other source.

    So it is a single case, at present lacking in detail and original sources, which compares rather poorly with my links to thousands of cases of abuse confirmed by reputable nationally recognised organisations.

    I don’t doubt that fundamentalist evangelical Christians will attribute child abuse to “Satan” rather than themselves, but that does not in itself, make any connection to the “Satanic Temple”!



    Report abuse

  • This victim’s parents settled out of court to pay for her therapy, and their crimes are on record. This information is available via the website I linked to.

    Edited by moderator to bring within Terms of Use.

    Charlotte – the bit we have removed from your comment is totally unacceptable on this site. You are very, very welcome to make your case, and we sincerely hope you will stay around and do so, but please, please, please MAKE it – don’t just hurl insults and aggression at people who are not (yet) convinced. We understand that abuse is a highly emotive topic but, while vehement disagreement is perfectly acceptable here, what we’re aiming for is civil, constructive, thoughtful discussion that actually sheds light on the subjects being discussed. Please take a moment to go to http://www.www.richarddawkins.net/tcp and read the final section (sorry, it’s a horribly long document, but it’s only the very last section that we want you to read). That sets out the ethos of the site and the principles we apply to the moderation of it, and we genuinely think it will help you to make your case here more effectively. We want you to stay and do that, but we cannot and will not permit the kind of abuse we have removed from this comment. – The mods)



    Report abuse

  • And no, “master potter” is a metaphor for a creator, not a televangelist.

    Here is the letter from the California Board of Psychology: read it and weep. No one cares about the Satanic Temple’s opinions on mental health. For real. https://i.imgflip.com/1mmvle.jpg

    Now, why can you not be bothered to care about the privacy needs of mental patients seeking treatment?

    Slightly edited by moderator to bring within Terms of Use



    Report abuse

  • Here is the Utah study on ritual abuse: http://digitallibrary.utah.gov/awweb/awarchive?item=72457

    Why most of the cases have not been prosecuted is a question for the UT Attorney General.

    The Satanic Temple routinely stalks such victims, bullies then on the internet, and harasses them into taking their YouTube channels down, because they have nothing better to do. Perhaps they should stick to making porn, since that’s apparently all they are good for?

    Edited by moderator to bring within Terms of Use



    Report abuse

  • OK here is the explicit petition to the California Board of Psychology.

    https://www.change.org/p/california-department-of-consumer-affairs-board-of-psychology-petition-california-to-properly-investigate-the-death-of-8-year-old-jude-miira

    Here is a Patheos discussion after during which Neil Brick (rationalinformation2) makes an appearance.
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/accordingtomatthew/2016/06/the-satanic-temple-sent-observers-to-a-ritual-abuse-survivors-conference-this-is-what-they-found/

    I have spent two hours trying to find evidence of a Board of Psychology response, but they appear to have done nothing unless Charlotte can tell us otherwise.

    A follow up petition has been lodged

    https://www.change.org/p/california-department-of-consumer-affairs-board-of-psychology-petition-california-to-properly-investigate-the-death-of-8-year-old-jude-miira/u/16919585

    Charlotte needs to explain clearly what she thinks is happening and why and with clear evidence.



    Report abuse

  • No, Charlotte.

    a) Richard Dawkins does not manage or moderate this website.

    b) The moderators did not delete your comment either. On the contrary, we retrieved it from the spam filter and then approved it, having first removed the bits that were in breach of our terms of use (please see our earlier message).

    There is no one here who is not open to persuasion provided you present your case in a rational, evidenced way. Nor does anyone here – moderators included – wish to prevent you from doing just that. But you do need to stop lashing out at everyone and assuming they have the worst possible motives.

    The mods



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #36
    Aug 28, 2017 at 10:16 am

    Here is the Utah study on ritual abuse: digitallibrary.utah.gov

    Thank you for providing some evidence of substance.

    Why most of the cases have not been prosecuted is a question for the UT Attorney General.

    The usual reason for cases being dropped is lack of credibility of claims or insufficient evidence to convince a court. You will note in the Scottish example I gave, the judge promptly threw out and strongly criticised the social/medical staff involved.

    @your linkThe unit was empowered to investigate claims involving ritual abuse and illegal cult activity, and assist local law enforcement in handling these cases throughout the State of Utah. Lieutenant Matt Jacobson and Lieutenant Mike King were the investigators assigned to this unit.
    Following a year of investigation into individual cases, Attorney General Jan Graham instructed these investigators to meet individually with the State’s Chiefs, Sheriffs, Law Enforcement Executives and Lawmakers to discuss individual jurisdictional problems.
    The Ritual Abuse Crime Unit was housed with the Child Abuse Prosecution Assistance Unit which was set up as a support for local prosecutors.
    The Child Abuse Unit provided technical advice and instruction on child abuse prosecution and investigation of cases involving children.
    On request from the appropriate authorities, the Unit was assigned to prosecute and/or investigate child abuse cases occurring anywhere in the state.
    This 1995 report of the Utah Attorney General’s office closed a two-and-a-half-year investigation with two investigators of “over 125 cases of alleged ritual crime.
    In some cases, these investigations involved hundreds of hours of investigation and evaluation.
    In addition, the Unit investigators have met with hundreds of citizens who claim to be victims of satanic, religious, physical or sexually motivated ritual crimes. None of the allegations…. have resulted in prosecutions except for the case of the Zion Society in Ogden.” The investigators used a broad definition of ritual (“any customarily repeated act or series of acts”), differentiated between ritualism and occultism, and described eleven different types of occult groups.

    So in the cases on your link, despite numerous ALLEGATIONS about various religious groups, and after extensive investigations, there were no prosecutions of Satanists here, but there was a prosecution in the case of abuse in the the Church of Latter Day Saints! (Mormons)

    Within the Latter Day Saint movement, Zion is often used to connote a utopian association of … Zion is a metaphor for a unified society of Latter Day Saints, metaphorically gathered as members of the Church of Christ (Latter Day Saints). – Wikipedia.

    If anything, this link undermines your claims of Satanist abuse as none was confirmed by the investigation!

    Charlotte N/A #35
    Aug 28, 2017 at 9:38 am

    And no, “master potter” is a metaphor for a creator, not a televangelist.

    According to whom, and in what context?

    From your link which I quote @#33 – Anne has availed herself to the Master Potter and transformation by fire.

    I thought such ritual activities might be related to this:-

    LAST-DAYS-MINISTRIES- Will you, like Joseph, walk through the fire in order to be resurrected into the greater destiny God has prepared for you?– Jill Austin, as founder of Master Potter Ministries, used drama, music, and the potter’s wheel to portray the loving heart of the Father. She also taught seminars on hearing the voice of God and spoke on how to move in His anointing.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #38
    Aug 28, 2017 at 12:45 pm

    I responded with the CA Board of Psychology’s response already.** I guess** Richard Dawkins deleted my comments, because they were too triggering

    Guessing is a really poor way of arriving at correct information.

    Your link shows that the board did not accept a complaint and stated that no laws rules had been broken – nothing more!
    No comment was made on the competence of Ellen Lacter. –
    I take it that the big black block capital letters about the complaint being invalid, were added later by someone else – as professional bodies do not usually resort to sensationalist additions to formal letters!



    Report abuse

  • Professional bodies also do not usually appreciate satanic cults telling them how to do their jobs. TST has a long history of berating survivors on the internet and in real life, including such nefarious activities as filming without consent and vandalizing property. What a terrible shame that the same things are now happening to them in Salem…

    You have the worst possible motives, assuming that ALL of these victims are merely “conspiracy theorists”, who make up fanciful tales of abuse for attention. The only people making up lies for attention around here are the Satanic Temple’s gang-stalkers, as evidenced by the fact that their petitions get universally ignored, and their complaints dismissed “without prejudice”.

    Observe this document, which refutes Doug Mesner’s claim that Neil Brick “does not have Dissociative Identity Disorder”:
    https://www.muckrock.com/foi/massachusetts-1/correspondence-regarding-neil-brick-38694/#file-137387
    “Your evaluation also found that your symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder are in remission, that you are sober, and that you have psychosocial supports in place should your past mental health history become an impedimentto practice as a licensed mental health counselor.”

    And also, this article where Doug Mesner gets called out as a flagrant liar and DID-denier in the comments section:
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2013/6/6/1214283/-The-Censored-Name-is-Neil-Brick-how-Examiner-com-fails-its-writers-and-readers



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #42
    Aug 28, 2017 at 5:00 pm

    Professional bodies also do not usually appreciate satanic cults telling them how to do their jobs.

    I think I am sufficiently informed on the work of professional bodies, to recognise that you are just making that up! Professional bodies write polite formal letters to inquiries and complaints.

    TST has a long history of berating survivors on the internet and in real life, including such nefarious activities as filming without consent and vandalizing property. What a terrible shame that the same things are now happening to them in Salem…

    So you keep telling us, but when I ask for links to evidence you provide one at #36 which goes against your claims!

    You have the worst possible motives,

    My motives are seeking reliable evidence rather than gossip or unsupported assertions.

    assuming that ALL of these victims are merely “conspiracy theorists”, who make up fanciful tales of abuse for attention.

    I make no assumptions, but you do not produce linked quotes which support any widespread abuse which can be attributed to the Satanic Temple!

    As is clear from the Scottish case I linked earlier @#18, the alleged victims are (merely?) victims OF “conspiracy theorists”, who make up fanciful tales of abuse for attention to themselves as professional councillors.

    And also, this article where Doug Mesner gets called out as a flagrant liar and DID-denier in the comments section:

    In an article about malpractice and allegations of quackery, and a discussion about possible legal or workload repercussions, somebody called someone else a liar in an internet comments section, – and you expect me to consider this as “evidence”?

    their complaints dismissed “without prejudice”.

    “Without prejudice”, is a legal term which precludes the content of statements as being taken as a firm offer if the matter goes to court!

    Perhaps you could reply to the issues I raise in #40.



    Report abuse

  • Perhaps you could be less of a victim-blamer. Do the Catholic victims have physical evidence of their abuse, years or decades after the fact?
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/feastofeden/2014/05/harvard-can-do-better-than-give-a-platform-to-a-black-mass-promoter-who-ridicules-sex-abuse-victims/
    “More Internet searching shows Greaves, as Doug Mesner, works….with the False Memory Syndrome Foundation, which was founded by Pamela and Peter Freyd after their adult daughter Jennifer accused her father of rape….One of the organization’s founding members, the late Ralph Underwager, gave a lengthy interview to a pro-pedophilia journal in the 1990s in which he criticized pedophiles for not being “bold enough.” Underwager said, “Pedophiles can make the assertion that the pursuit of intimacy and love is what they choose. With boldness they can say, ‘I believe this is in fact part of God’s will.”
    To be fair, Underwager, when criticized over the interview, said his comments had been taken out of context.”

    “All of which is to say that, as a victim of child sexual abuse, I do not think very much of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation or its co-founder Underwager, and so likewise do not think much of Greaves’ association with it or his ridiculing people who claim to have recovered memories of child sex abuse. (Again, he has a long Internet trail, which in this case shows quite a bit of vituperation directed at child sex-abuse victims and those who support them.)”



    Report abuse

  • P.S. No one cares about the Satanic Temple’s opinions on mental health, least of all the boards of health which govern therapist licensure. And we victims of child sexual abuse, who recover our memories later in life, with or without the aid of a therapist, do not appreciate his mockery one bit. #DishItOutYaTakeIt



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #44
    Aug 28, 2017 at 8:00 pm

    Perhaps you could be less of a victim-blamer.

    By looking for evidence I avoid being a victim blamer.
    I am a victim identifier, and so wish to determine who the victims are and who the abusers are. This involves looking at the claims a of all parties and seeing which ones are supported by evidence and credible witnesses.

    There is a real issue here of if there are victims of “Satanic Abuse” from a named organisation, or if vulnerable people with mental problems are being exploited by quack “therapists”? – who are increasing their delusional problems by seeding false memories and aggravating ideas.

    “More Internet searching shows Greaves, as Doug Mesner, works….with the False Memory Syndrome Foundation,

    Regardless of who is involved in in particular campaign groups, false memory syndrome is a properly studied mental condition debated by reputable medical researchers and doctors.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143501/

    The false memory syndrome: Experimental studies and comparison to confabulations

    False memories, or recollections that are factually incorrect but strongly believed, remain a source of confusion for both psychiatrists and neurologists. We propose model for false memories based on recent experimental investigations, particularly when analyzed in comparison to confabulations, which are the equivalent of false memories from neurological disease. Studies using the Deese/Roedinger–McDermott experimental paradigm indicate that false memories are associated with the need for complete and integrated memories, self-relevancy, imagination and wish fulfillment, familiarity, emotional facilitation, suggestibility, and sexual content. In comparison, confabulations are associated with the same factors except for emotional facilitation, suggestibility, and sexual content. Both false memories and confabulations have an abnormal sense of certainty for their recollections, and neuroanatomical findings implicate decreased activity in the ventromedial frontal lobe in this certainty. In summary, recent studies of false memories in comparison to confabulations support a model of false memories as internally-generated but suggestible and emotionally-facilitated fantasies or impulses, rather than repressed memories of real events.

    Charlotte N/A #45
    Aug 28, 2017 at 8:06 pm

    P.S. No one cares about the Satanic Temple’s opinions on mental health, least of all the boards of health which govern therapist licensure.

    I think you mean YOU don’t care, and have a closed mind to available evidence of the existence of false memories caused by disease, injury, or implanted during coaching/counselling.

    And we victims of child sexual abuse, who recover our memories later in life, with or without the aid of a therapist, do not appreciate his mockery one bit.

    I’m sure real victims don’t appreciate mockery, but then those with false memories probably don’t appreciate it either, – and nor do falsely accused individuals or organisations!

    However, charlatans and incompetents aggravating conflicts and mental conditions, certainly do deserve mockery!



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #44
    Aug 28, 2017 at 8:00 pm

    /harvard-can-do-better-than-give-a-platform-to-a-black-mass-promoter-who-ridicules-sex-abuse-victims/

    I have looked at various links about “The Black Mass” which appears to be a wind-up of the Catholic Church by the Satanic Temple which is based on a NOVEL!

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/2014/05/13/author-of-black-mass-guess-how-he-died/

    The spokesperson for the Satanic Temple said that the presentation of the Black Mass was to be based upon the description found in the book Lá-bas (“The Damned”) published in 1891 by the French author Joris-Karl Huysmans. Huysmans was notorious for the earlier publication of his book À rebours (“Against Nature”) which was seen by many as decadent, pornographic, and vulgar.

    It has been picked up in blogs, by the Catholic media and by the some of the US sensationalist junk news outlets.

    As far as I can see, it has no evidence to link the apparent hoax with child abuse.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/2014/05/07/not-yet-able-to-confirm-harvard-black-mass-story/

    The Harvard Extension Cultural Studies Club is hosting a black mass on May 12 to be staged by The Satanic Temple and which will include a consecrated host.

    According to a press release from The Satanic Temple, they plan on presenting the black mass at the Queens Head Pub in Memorial Hall, 45 Quincy Street, Cambridge, MA along with “an academic narration that explores the ritual’s unique history and practice.”

    I’m skeptical because I haven’t seen a word about this written anywhere, except at the WOG site, which may have taken the bait for a hoax.
    The Harvard Extension page on Facebook (there appears to be no “Harvard Extension Club“) has no mention of it and so far the only source for the story appears to be the Satanic Temple press release, itself.

    I also put in a call to the Queens Head Pub referenced in the story and the events person I spoke to, whose name I’ll put aside for the moment, was unaware of any such booking, but said she’d look into it and get back to me.

    So a non- existent club, with an academic sounding name, claims to be having a “Black Mass based on a description in a novel” – in a PUB – which knows nothing about the meeting, and the Catholic media is going bananas over this!

    I think you have established the the Satanic Temple is into anti-Catholic wind-ups, lies, and hoaxes, and that it has some disreputable associates, who may have been involved in child abuse, but any claims about child abuse coming from the Catholic Church’s priests and exorcists, must be subject to scepticism!

    And we victims of child sexual abuse, who recover our memories later in life, with or without the aid of a therapist, do not appreciate his mockery one bit.

    If you are a genuine victim of sexual abuse, then you have my sympathy.

    If you are a victim of false memories implanted by rogue councillors, you also have my sympathy.

    I hope that you would have sympathy for the Scottish children and families, (@#18) who were bullied into agreeing to endorse false claims of ritual sexual abuse against their parents, by obsessive incompetent investigators!

    If you look over the archives on this site you will see sympathy for victims and criticism and censure of abusers, – but with care taken to establish reputable information sources and accurate information.

    https://www.richarddawkins.net/2017/06/australian-cardinal-and-aide-to-pope-is-charged-with-sexual-assault/#li-comment-223349

    You do yourself and the credibility of your arguments no favours, by attacking the existence of evidenced medical conditions such as false memory syndrome.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #44
    Aug 28, 2017 at 8:00 pm

    Underwager said, “Pedophiles can make the assertion
    that the pursuit of intimacy and love is what they choose.
    With boldness they can say,
    ‘I believe this is in fact part of God’s will.”
    To be fair, Underwager, when criticized over the interview,
    said his comments had been taken out of context.”

    I find it difficult to believe that atheists or Satanists, would cite “God’s will” as a basis for their actions!

    This sounds much more like a claim of (Abrahamic) religious paedophiles!



    Report abuse

  • @OP – Russell Moore, president of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, denounced white supremacy as “Satanism” and “devil-worship.”

    Ah! The “benefits” of delusional faith-thinking about “ethics”!

    This greed-worship of the Christian right, is nasty selfishness, so by the “No-True-Scotsman fallacy” it’s not us – so let’s pretend they are Satanists! – and the Devil can absolve US from responsibility for the self indulgent, self-righteous, greedy, adult spoilt brats in our congregations!

    From an atheist/humanist viewpoint, which is free of gods, demons, angels, fairies and devils, this really is pathetic!



    Report abuse

  • There is no such thing as “false memory syndrome”. It doesn’t exist: check the DSM.
    http://www.leadershipcouncil.org/1/res/dallam/6.html
    It is a lie, made up for attention by pedophiles, with the express intent to discredit their victims, in a tactic known as “gaslighting”: “No one will ever believe you! You’re crazy!” Shame on you and TST for propagating such hate-filled lies that harm trauma victims.

    Or perhaps, you would prefer to hear it from a webcomic drawn by a child sexual abuse victim on LiveJournal instead? Scientific, peer-reviewed literature can be so tedious, after all… http://lb-lee.livejournal.com/668165.html

    Why Richard Dawkins is giving Doug Mesner, who associates with known pedophiles, a platform is beyond me. It appears he learned nothing from his own recent de-platforming experience.



    Report abuse

  • yes, i expect you to take the comments section of a DailyKos article seriously, AS EVIDENCE, just as you are taking this one.
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2013/6/6/1214283/-The-Censored-Name-is-Neil-Brick-how-Examiner-com-fails-its-writers-and-readers

    “What do you care about the facts? Let’s talk about some FACTS Doug –

    (1) You infiltrated the SMART conference with no intention to take it seriously and every intention to trash and defame it in any way possible. You take whatever you can out of context to support you narrow point of view. Oh, and you cancelled your check to the conference after you attended.

    (2) You berate survivors on the internet, often using false names. When they react defensively to this uncalled for harassment, you accuse them of being “hysterical”.

    (3) In you examiner article, you called Dissociative Identity Disorder a “debunked diagnosis”, but I posted studies (such as – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8888853) which showed this to be false. Now you put it as “a subculture within the field of dissociative disorders that” blah blah blah. So apparently you have changed that particularly indefensible claim because it makes you look too stupid.

    You have no desire for “Neil Brick’s propositions be put to critical scrutiny”. You just want to tear down anyone who would come forward to support Neil Brick’s assertions with their own experiences. You have done nothing but attempt to suppress and belittle the evidence.
    In a court of law, if someone is found to be lying once, their testimony is thrown away. You are NOT a credible source, Doug.”

    and also, this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24788904
    and also, this: http://www.leadershipcouncil.org/1/res/dallam/6.html
    and also, this: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/760941.When_Rabbit_Howls

    and then, there’s this: http://ashastaroth.thesatanictemplenyc.com/?p=641
    Ash Astaroth and his gang-stalking cronies can’t question the validity of DID as a diagnosis without being “immediately categorized as pedophile or rapist enablers.” Because that’s exactly what they are.



    Report abuse

  • Why Richard Dawkins is giving Doug Mesner, who associates with known pedophiles, a platform is beyond me.

    For the second time, Charlotte – Richard Dawkins has nothing whatsoever to do with the management of this website. It would be nice if we didn’t have to tell you this for a third time.

    And for your information, articles are selected purely and simply for the purposes of stimulating discussion on topics relevant to the Foundation, and not necessarily because anyone at the Foundation agrees with them.

    The mods – rapidly running out of patience now



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #50
    Aug 29, 2017 at 2:03 pm

    There is no such thing as “false memory syndrome”. It doesn’t exist: check the DSM.

    That is simply wrong!

    Your links to “The Leadership Council” 2002, cite papers form the !970s, 1980s and 1990s, claiming that no research has been done to confirm “false memory syndrome”.

    With the help of Harold Lief and Marin Orne,2 the FMSF quickly gathered a respectable appearing advisory board, giving the new syndrome an aura of scientific acceptance (P. Freyd, June 1998, p. 1). Although, the FMSF was billed as a scientific organization, its actions were mainly geared toward defending parents against abuse accusations and blaming them on psychotherapists.
    According to Pamela Freyd (1992, May 1), “This Foundation came into being because many of us believe that we have been judged guilty by therapists who have never met us . . . ” (p. 1). According to Martin Gardner (1993), a prominent member of the FMSF Scientific and Professional Advisory Board, the FMSF was formed “to combat a fast-growing epidemic of dubious therapy that is ripping thousands of families apart, scarring patients for life, and breaking the hearts of innocent parents and other relatives” (p. 370).

    Despite the fact that “False Memory Syndrome” remained undefined and had never been the subject of any research, the FMSF focused its early activities on influencing the media and legal system.
    In its first official newsletter, supporters were told that the main activities the foundation would be: (1) “press releases with accurate information on topics such as child abuse statistics and memory”; (2) developing a resource center and database for legal cases involving repressed memories; (3) a study of beliefs of mental health professionals; and (4) “other things that you tell us need to be done to help you” (“Foundation Activities”, March 1992, p. 2).

    My link to peer-reviewed article .ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143501/ was published in 2010, and presents a long list of citations to The false memory syndrome: Experimental studies and comparison to confabulations, – which post date your papers claiming experimental work has not (yet) been done!

    It also gives a potted history of the subject!

    While you may have anger you wish to express, simply throwing mud at a wide spectrum of opponents does nothing for your case!
    Nor does simple gratuitous asserted disputing or contradicting of peer reviewed medical science!

    I have seen a lot of asserted nonsense and irrelevant mud-slinging from various parties on some of the links on this subject, so at present I find it unclear as to if we are looking at competent professional councillors or charlatan quacks like the ones in the Scottish example, – or a mixture of the two!

    Your lack of interest in responding to specific points raised, leaves a lack of clarity about what you are claiming.

    However on some links it appears you are reading what you want to believe, rather than what is written.



    Report abuse

  • I am claiming that the Satanic Temple is guilty of gang-stalking abuse survivors, getting in their faces, calling them “false accusers”, and mocking their pain. This stalking and harassment must end, immediately, along with their practice of filming people without consent and vandalizing property.

    This is not a request.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #51
    Aug 29, 2017 at 2:21 pm

    3 In your examiner article, you called Dissociative Identity Disorder a “debunked diagnosis”, but I posted studies (such as – gov/pubmed/8888853) which showed this to be false.

    It is perfectly legitimate to debate the validity of controversial views.

    Now you put it as “a subculture within the field of dissociative disorders that” blah blah blah. So apparently you have changed that particularly indefensible claim because it makes you look too stupid.

    This is not a scientific level of debate! There are considerable uncertainties in such matters, and without looking at individual cases, it is not possible to tell if particular diagnoses are valid or not!

    @ your #51 link – Despite its long and auspicious place in the history of psychiatry, dissociative identity disorder (DID) has been associated with controversy. This paper aims to examine the empirical data related to DID and outline the contextual challenges to its scientific investigation

    DID was found to be a complex yet valid disorder across a [limited] range of markers.
    It can be accurately discriminated from other disorders, especially when structured diagnostic interviews assess identity alterations and amnesia.
    DID is aetiologically associated with a complex combination of developmental and cultural factors, including severe childhood relational trauma.
    The prevalence of DID appears highest in emergency psychiatric settings and affects approximately 1% of the general population.

    So the validity of any diagnosis depends on the integrity and competence of the structured diagnostic interview!

    We would also have to question anecdotal accounts, from psychiatric patients who have amnesia and “recovered memories”! – Especially those who have been “saved” by woo-mongers or faith-healers!

    As in the example From your link which I quote @#33 – Anne has availed herself to the Master Potter and transformation by fire.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #51
    Aug 29, 2017 at 2:21 pm

    Ash Astaroth and his gang-stalking cronies can’t question the validity of DID as a diagnosis without being “immediately categorized as pedophile or rapist enablers.”

    Unless of course it turns out that they are not “stalking” anyone, but are exposing counselling malpractice which makes false allegations and misleads vulnerable people into believing them – as could have happened in the Scottish example I linked earlier, but for the mental tenacity of the children and families concerned!

    Because that’s exactly what they are.

    Or so you persistently assert, but as there are confirmed cases of malpractice, they clearly are not enablers in all cases, or many cases, so may only have approaches from limited numbers of actual abusers seeking advice – as is inevitable when working in this area of psychiatry or psychology where legal cases are involved!



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #56
    Aug 29, 2017 at 6:26 pm

    I am claiming that the Satanic Temple is guilty of gang-stalking abuse survivors, getting in their faces, calling them “false accusers”, and mocking their pain. This stalking and harassment must end, immediately,

    So what you appear to be wanting, is unquestioning support for allegations of Satanic abuse from anyone (including abusers who have had no previous connection with the Satanic Temple, or evangelical exorcists “counselling” victims ), and an end to investigations into:- coaching alleged victims responses, false allegations, and effects of false memory syndrome!

    along with their practice of filming people without consent

    And stopping producing video records of what is actually being said and done at these “conference” meetings!

    Is this correct?

    and vandalizing property.

    Evidence of vandalizing property is a matter for the police.



    Report abuse

  • Those conference lectures that TST is so interested in are freely available online, in text and video. And no one cares about the opinions of a bunch of gang-stalkers who target rape survivors, least of all on mental health. Stop making excuses for their blatantly illegal activities.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte

    DSM is rightly and properly decades behind the curve on issues of mental health. They shouldn’t be rushing into anything. They are not the psychologists researching the problems of false memory syndrome. Our knowledge of how memory works is exploding. Much more to the point understanding this does not constitute any mental health problem to be diagnosed but a problem of investigation into… well… anything. Its not the DSM’s business. It is for pyschologists to help investigators of all sorts. Rest assured in future decades systems, checks and training will go into place. (Its going first into high value legal cases.) False memory syndrome is almost inevitable given the way memories are always reconstructed at each recall. What is going to be needed also is how perfectly good evidential memories, once contaminated by an untrained or the cognitively skewed (though well meaning) investigator can be still realistically valued and a decent prosecution achieved.

    Thanks for the pic of the California Psychology Board letter. Not in the least surprised by it, though. It is one heck of a can of worms. Medical practitioners who were religious badly compromised the treatment of someone close to me. No one wants to touch that one either.

    You appear to be single handedly destroying your case here with outlandish claims and neglecting to imagine others may have some experiences close to your own.

    No more from me.



    Report abuse

  • You neglect to imagine the negative effect on survivors that TST has caused. Gang-stalking, harassment, filming without consent, and vandalism are illegal for a reason. If they wish to have a reasoned discussion about malpractice and “woo” in the psych industry, then violating people’s privacy and endangering their safety is an absurdly stupid way to go about it.

    End the stalking of survivors and harassment of any therapist who treats multiplicity. This is not a request.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #61
    Aug 30, 2017 at 10:39 am

    P.S. there is no such thing as “false memory syndrome”: check the DSM.

    I see you are still in denial about this despite the link I gave to peer-reviewed medical research with its numerous citations!

    You know some of us have discussed memory issues before and are familiar with reading scientific papers and articles to understand what is written , rather than what we would like to believe.

    https://www.richarddawkins.net/2015/03/animals-can-be-given-false-memories-2/ – Scientific American Article 2015

    https://www.richarddawkins.net/2017/04/where-does-the-brain-store-long-ago-memories/#li-comment-220788

    https://www.richarddawkins.net/2017/04/where-does-the-brain-store-long-ago-memories/#li-comment-220756

    https://www.richarddawkins.net/2016/06/why-alien-abductions-are-down-dramatically/#li-comment-206189

    DID, on the other hand, is accepted as fact.

    Certain aspects of it are recognised as psychological features.

    Psychology is far from an exact science, so “facts” are distinctly scarce!



    Report abuse

  • Moderator.
    This guy is accusing Alan and all of us with an opinion different than his of crimes.
    And he is demanding,,,,,,,,something.
    It is well past time for him to go. You have been more than patient with him.



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #64
    Aug 30, 2017 at 12:21 pm

    You neglect to imagine the negative effect on survivors that TST has caused.

    Not at all! I can understand concern of those who have suffered abuse about being believed by relevant authorities. We have discussed the victims of the Roman Catholic abuse scandals at length.

    My concern is that you show no interest in eliminating the damage which is done to child, adult, and family victims by false allegations, delusional claims, and quack pseudo-investigators – and no sympathy for those victims.

    End the stalking of survivors and harassment of any therapist who treats multiplicity. This is not a request.

    As far as I am aware, nobody here has any connection to the Satanic Temple, and many of us don’t even live in the USA, so I can only suggest you take the matter up with them!

    The debate here is in seeking a clear picture of the issues, and the identification of the sources of damage to ALL INJURED PARTIES, and avoiding false allegations like the ones in the opening paragraph!

    Charlotte N/A #45- Aug 28, 2017 at 8:06 pm –
    And we victims of child sexual abuse, who recover our memories later in life, with or without the aid of a therapist,

    You said earlier that you were a victim of child abuse, so perhaps you could clarify if that abuse was at the hands of a member of the Satanic Temple organisation or not.



    Report abuse

  • alf1200 #67
    Aug 30, 2017 at 1:32 pm

    This guy is accusing Alan and all of us with an opinion different than his of crimes.

    Stay cool Alf!
    Phil has summed it up nicely at the end of #62. – which is similar to the end of my comment @#47.

    We are also discussing conspiracy theorists here and conspiracy theorist thought patterns!

    BTW: I have had some formal training in psychology – albeit a long time ago!



    Report abuse

  • Alf1200 and others

    We agree and have now suspended Charlotte’s user account. Given the emotiveness of the subject matter, we wanted to give her every chance to drop the hostility and start discussing thoughtfully and constructively, but it is perfectly clear (including from a number of comments that are no longer visible in this thread) that that is not going to happen.

    The mods



    Report abuse

  • Charlotte N/A #23
    Aug 26, 2017 at 6:36 pm

    The Satanic Temple is just another religious organization that blames and abuses victims.

    So having seen what Charlotte says about the Grey faction, perhaps we should see what they Grey faction has to say!

    https://thesatanictemplearizona.com/tst-grey-faction-protest-unethical-therapists/

    Beginning in 1980 and roughly dated to have ended around 1995, the modern witch-hunt known to sociologists as the “Satanic Panic” was marked by a temporary mainstream acceptance of absurd and irrational conspiracy theories related to Satanic Cult mind-control and Ritual Abuse.
    Countless lives were ruined as courts — influenced by pseudoscientist mental health “experts” — accepted “recovered memory” testimony, no more credible than “memories” similarly “recovered” for alleged victims of alien abduction or offered by believers in Past Life Regression.
    Fraud “occult crime” investigators offered testimony to the reality of a hidden Satanic threat that, in fact, never existed at all.
    Though such debunked and ludicrous notions don’t enjoy the same uncritical daytime talk-show fascination they held in the 1980s, organizations like the International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation (ISSTD) still work to impress Satanic Panic delusions into the minds of mental health consumers and the public at large.
    Occult Crime investigators, conspiracists, hack reporters, and opportunistic cons tirelessly work to revive their cherished witch-hunt in collusion with a failed mental health care system that never prohibited nor properly censured Recovered Memory Therapies or the delusional and/or exploitative licensed mental health professionals who still use these techniques to draw forth confabulatory false confessions from their clientele.

    “And this is where today’s Western, somewhat secularized, witch-hunters currently reside: among psychology’s pseudoscientific fringe; feeding delusion to the mentally vulnerable behind the protection of therapist-client privilege, and under the guise trauma therapy.
    While they revel in their disturbed pornographic fantasies of child-rape and extreme abuse, they proclaim their critics to be demented defenders of pedophilic assault.
    They co-opt the narrative of victim’s rights to conceal their absurd conspiracy theories from criticism and scrutiny.
    To question the validity of DID, or even the reality of a Satanic conspiracy, is — according to this defensive ploy — to question the very existence of child abuse itself.
    In this way, actual victims of abuse are used as human shields to defend our modern inquisitors as they engage in the most outrageous and under-investigated mental health scandal of our time.”




    Report abuse

  • There is an interesting article here about the 1980’s “Satanic Panic”!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/08/24/accused-of-satanism-they-spent-21-years-in-prison-they-were-just-declared-innocent-and-were-paid-millions/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandomuk_1_na&utm_term=.5a9b6a0eb74b

    Falsely accused of satanic horrors, a couple spent 21 years in prison. Now they’re owed millions.

    The “satanic panic,” some call it now. It began some time in the 1980s, when newscasters and fundamentalist Christian cartoons warned of the evils of the role-playing game “Dungeons & Dragons,” and stretched into the 1990s, when police and psychiatrists saw thousands of unfounded accusations of ritualistic sex abuse and children were seized from British parents accused of devil worship.



    Report abuse

  • Since finding out Dawkins promotes or at least doesnt seem to care that satanism is immoral and something I do not want to be a part of.I no longer keep his books or follow him on twitter or other avenues. Its bad enough being called a satanist but the person you use to find intelligent actually promotes it on his website.. I know there is not satan I know there is no god however from reading up on the satanist idealisms I want no part of them or there followers or friends.. also the thinking atheist as well.  so farewell


    Report abuse

  • Spiritdove says:

    Since finding out Dawkins promotes or at least doesn’t seem to care that satanism is immoral and something I do not want to be a part of.

    Discussing a subject is not the same as promoting it!

     

    This site also has discussions on anti-vaxers, YECs.  child abuse by Catholic priests etc.

     

    That does not mean it promotes these activities.   It merely indicates that they are discussed and analysed.


    Report abuse

  • Spiritdove

     

    Make sure you are not fooled by a mere tag. The idealisms of The Satanic Temple, for instance are…

    “One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
    The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
    One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
    The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one’s own.
    Beliefs should conform to one’s best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one’s beliefs.
    People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one’s best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
    Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.”

    Why “Satanic”? Well it is a literary conceit. One fairly often employed to point up the immorality of “the godly”.


    Report abuse

Leave a Reply

View our comment policy.